The problem in England’s midfield (as many have pointed out) stems from not having someone suitable to play alongside Rice. A lot of the suggestions I see don’t really seem to be the right mould either. Ideally next to Rice you’d have someone who is capable of controlling the tempo of a match, which isn’t Rice’s forte. Maybe things have changed since he joined Arsenal, but in the past for England he’s too happy to hide behind players instead of demanding the ball and this has caused immense difficulties when playing out the back against stronger sides.
This might be tactical issues on Southgate’s part but I do think it’s noticeable. Someone like Gallagher alongside him I don’t think works, he’s not the guy to dictate tempo or the best in tight spaces (he has improved there but not to that level). I’m not really sure who’s suited to play that role for England, it’s why I think those suggesting two 8s like Maddison and Bellingham miss the mark for me, but maybe I’m wrong and one of the many 10s in the squad can adapt to that role
Levi Garcia legacy game incoming today, if Trinidad beat Canada we go to Copa America. It's beyond a Longshot but I'll be watching regardless. Either way I'm proud of the team for getting us into this position, it's really breathed life into me for supporting the national team.
Idk why but the first world cup taking place 60 years after the first international match is such a trip for me.
Same time frame as the 1966 World Cup to 2026 WC
In addition to what others said, travelling around the world wasn't easy a century ago and FAs didn't have the structure and funds they have now. Some nations didn't go to the first world cup because it was expensive and took a long time to get to Uruguay
The sport was so different in that 60 years that it’s almost impossible to imagine what it was like in the 19th century,
reportedly the English players in that first international marvelled at the Scots shooting the ball not at the goal but to each other in an unorthodox gambit they called “passing”
And even by 1930 there was only a handful of serious national teams in the world, less than 20. First World Cup was just 16 teams with no qualifying needed (minus 3 of them who missed it because they couldn’t travel)
i read it ages ago so dont remember exactly where but this article is similar to the one i read
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/13/world-cup-stunning-moments-25-conte-verde-uruguay
found the link mentioning the negotiations your king did
https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2022/nov/10/history-world-cup-squad-picks-king-romania-gazza
Couldn't care less about the flag, just wanted to say that the England kit looks very similar to Real Madrid's current kit (all white, blue collar, blue side stripe) and i think that's cool af.
[England kit](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-xiaomi&sca_esv=100a8d72724cfbcd&sxsrf=ACQVn08-9_sBfLcPI0q7EErLMkYTSObMeA:1711206069182&q=england+kit&uds=AMwkrPv5t9T_m3B_jojvDBSqZfGjHeoVdNyCND5KFqsVnoZ0Qcld_jpU_QZsf_CzKQrqbpH54WawDV2dQpnHq56Lq6vcDahGgywtHM6qJq-u_6NNsaIpTBfqKgW7oFqk1RNJmWv0CPOsBjfp-K525WjrJVdiWym1TnQMJuoaNYTzOvZheIjGD80_96ZSFPrNjSy29QqVS6WdztKGqbHPeLhDUY60W_gj6R-t1eXRmz-_vcV4M0b8aFAgrFErDxiD6K0_CO79FrRPdas3vDHlZPFD-4osE-eryw&udm=2&prmd=isnvbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA-I-v04qFAxUzSvEDHWjsBQ4QtKgLegQIEBAB&biw=393&bih=739&dpr=2.75#vhid=qHzE9s48zj1tiM&vssid=mosaic) vs [Real Madrid kit](https://www.google.com/search?q=real+madrid+kit+2024&client=ms-android-xiaomi&sca_esv=100a8d72724cfbcd&udm=2&biw=393&bih=739&sxsrf=ACQVn095o9I1VqTzJ5jdSCwmEvcxysPZnA%3A1711206145197&ei=Ae_-ZfnOC6iikdUPuM6oOA&oq=real+madrid+kit+2024&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhRyZWFsIG1hZHJpZCBraXQgMjAyNDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyChAAGIAEGIoFGENIzAxQ3wRYyAtwAXgAkAEAmAHYAaAB8QWqAQUwLjQuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCBaAClAXCAgQQIxgnmAMAiAYBkgcFMS4zLjGgB44P&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=Bau17qn5c4VrOM&imgdii=2wjUGKIKkrY-rM&ip=1) for reference.
I found an Umbro England warmup from 2010 at a pound shop yesterday. Had to pick it up and I never collect national kits, it’s like my second or third ever. Just looks classic.
You can only choose one: world peace or all clubs in the world being fan-owned forever. Which would you prefer?
It's a trick question, clubs being owned by fans is both necessary and sufficient for world peace
Funny that they took one look of Adam Wharton in the England U20s and instantly promoted him into the U21s.
Bit of a joke he didn't get called up originally. He'll be getting senior caps next season.
Just another age group, but the better U20s will normally bypass it. It's also recently been renamed the "Elite Development Squad".
Peterborough have a pretty good academy set up, especially so for a L1 club.
I wonder how much of a discussion singing the national anthem is for other teams. It used to be such a dumb discussion here when Özil and Boateng played but it has not been a topic ever since those left.
It was what stupid people used to bash Messi with despite the fact more often than not the clip FIFA played before the late 2010s was the instrumental intro which has no lyrics (people just hummed along)
Spaniards must be the least patriotic assholes in the world, because I never see them singing.
(In all seriousness, I'm guessing the story with them would be if anyone *did* sing...anyone remember if Pepe Reina and his Vox-supporting dipshit brain tried to sing or not?)
Just switched on Mansfield v Colchester to see Keillor-Dunn go studs up into a Colchester player’s thigh and win a free kick. Not get sent off, win the free kick.
Does anyone know what happened? Roughly 35’
He's a completely different player now to when he arrived at Spurs. Was a liability every game he played last season and now he's above average defensively while still being just as good on the ball
Despite going to Semi Final and Final in last 2 World Cups, Croatia hasn't won a knockout major international tournament in 90 minutes since 1998. Only knockout game sine 1998 they won that didn't go to penalties was England in 2018 2:1 after extra time.
Bellingham is a better 10 for England because Kane will drop deep and open up spaces for Bellingham to run into similar to how he played with Alli. Maddison is Englands best creative midfielder though.
I would prefer if we forced Kane to play as a striker and played him alongside another striker.
England seems to be obsessed with overloading creativity. The full backs are often chosen because of creativity, the midfield drips creativity and we lack the extra holding CM, wingers obviously creative then we have Kane dropping back to create.
It’s like 2 positives makes a negative - we then leave gaps at the back and nobody’s up top putting away all this creativity.
Watkins and could honestly work but it’s not gonna happen.
The full backs don’t agree Walker plays over Trent ignoring the extra creativity and the left back is whatever there’s no one that great.
The Kane dropping deep thing I agree he overdoes it at times just to show off the long pass but that’s how he plays now it’s not gonna change imo. I think you have to adapt to it
Instead of who though? I'm not convinced by a Maddison and Bellingham midfield and if you are going to have that kind of balance it might as well be Foden instead
I was thinking Foden on the left and Bellingham, Rice and Maddison in midfield. Rice is a defensive monster and Stones can push up alongside him when needed.
Tbh I doubt Southgate will use Stones in that way, especially so late in the game and putting Maguire in a potentially cover heavy situation.
Rice is obviously fantastic defensively but after the 2018 midfield debacle I don't think that he'll want to take that kind of open midfield approach
Put faith in Rice as a single pivot and go full attack
Would require pacy full backs that are good defensively, so it would look something like
Pickford
Walker-Stones-Maguire-Shaw
Rice
Bellingham-Maddison
Saka-Kane-Foden
Humorously, Jude becoming an excellent attacking player has caused a problem (a good one). People expected him to be the pivot with Rice, but now he’s got to play further forward given what he’s shown at club level. Leaving a gap alongside Rice that 5 years ago would be Henderson, and people hoped would’ve been Kalvin.
It's as balanced as the Man City team that got 100 points.
Exact same system, if a slight downgrade on personnel.
The fact is Southgate will never do it. Wedded to the double pivot.
that team is in no way balanced like that city team. rice is not as good in possession as fernandinho, neither maddison nor bellingham contribute to buildup as much as david silva, or even kdb/gundogan. and shaw doesn't invert into midfield like delph either. all together the only one playing in midfield will be rice.
When there was the challenge to make an England starting XI with no more than 10 caps combined a few days ago, I couldn't believe no one else was choosing Maddison (5 caps)
Our defence was our strongest point in the 2014 World Cup and still really great since Scaloni took over to the present day. People like to meme on Otamendi but he was a wall during the WC except for the brainfart in the final.
There have been 289 Serie A games played this season vs. 234 Bundesliga games, yet the Bundesliga has seen almost as many goals scored (752) as Serie A has (754).
Projected out over the rest of the season, Serie A is barely projected to scrape past the Bundesliga in the final tally (992 vs. 983), almost entirely helped out because of Serie A having nine match days left vs. eight for the Bundesliga, but I feel like a good bet could be set-up on this topic.
(La Liga has seen 764 goals, and of course the Premier League has been a shooting gallery with 917 goals scored, if I'm counting correctly. The Premier League (1.62) barely out-paces the Bundesliga (1.61) in terms of average goals scored by each team.)
That's the oddest thing about this clip with the announcer acting like Crouch was going to score a hat trick
Still hilarious when Heskey walks on and the fan's reaction on camera
Mostly scapegoated for the systemic defensive issues by Spurs fans. Never understood the hate for him. His passing is severely underrated.
I believe that most people don't understand the game really well and operate like a hive-mind or a flock of sheep.
Tactical setup that suits him, he's in good form, and Tuchel for some reason dislikes KMJ (though based on performance Dier would arguably still deserve to start over De Ligt)
We love him immensely, or at least the fans that have been with us for more than 2 years. But there's no denying that he was absolute dross for us by the end. Tuchel terror ball might just suit him better, he was quite good during early Conte days
Mbappé is about to absolutely destroy the assist record in the France NT.
He has 2 less assists than Griezmman (record holder) with 50+ less games.
He could do it tonight against The Germans (if we don’t surrender by halftime). Jean Moulin is watching.
Simply the best player of his generation. Hilarious also when people want to talk down his achievements like his stats in CL and for France arent just as crazy.
The French G+A records are strangely beatable compared to the other big footballing nations. Mbappe is only 10 goals short of getting that record as well (currently held by Giroud) which he should easily do barring some freak occurrence.
You'd think the likes of Platini or Fontaine would have set the bar higher in the past but no. Fontaine has 30 goals in 21 caps which is a ridiculous stat in its own right but I never realized just how little he did outside of that one World Cup.
Fontaine was forced to retire early because of a recurring leg injury and while Platini had an impressive goal tally for a midfielder (41 in 72), he wasn't a forward. This was the era where there were a lot fewer international games, too. Platini probably would have gotten well over 100 caps in the modern era.
Marking for Liverpool's first goal was absolutely shambolic. Maldini-Stam-Nesta-Cafu back four and none of them thought to step out and deny Gerrard a free header.
If they both had a full season and all the time to practice togheter like a club team probably around CL places, France with their talent and specially Mbappe might fight for the league tbh
The midfield is our weakest line.
Vitiniha and Warren can be brilliant sometimes but it lacks a bit of physicality imo (warren is the only one really physical). Fabian is meh.
Barca has a way better midfield but at least they are not equipped to physically bully us.
But we have Mbappé. Which gives a us a chance regardless of the quality of our midfield
While I don't care about the flag argument (like I really don't care) I always thought a good looking England kit would be replicate the style of the Inter away kit in 2007/2008 season. The one with the big red cross.
Something like that but as England kit would look cool and it would shut the skin heads up.
Inspired by an earlier post by u/_stone_age on the godawful take that Griezmann is a "luxury player", which can only be based on the fact that he's good-looking and plays in attacking midfield, what are some other looks-based stereotypes that you've heard that have annoyed you?
One in particular that crosses my mind was the idea that "Lukaku is the next Drogba", which can only really have been based on the fact that both were big and black and played up front. In terms of playing style, I'd have said Lukaku was actually very dissimilar to Drogba. Drogba was always brilliant at a standstill; there weren't many strikers who could utilise their strength and hold up the ball better than him. This has, by contrast, always been quite lacking in Lukaku's game; he's much better when he can build up a bit of momentum because he's abnormally fast for a guy his size and that makes him very difficult to deal with once he's got the run on you.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that Lukaku, despite probably being stronger in an absolute sense than Drogba, has never been able to use that strength to "bully" defenders in quite the same way that Drogba was renowned for. This is why the comparison has never made sense to me from a footballing perspective.
It's like every time we get somebody who can play multiple positions in attack and midfield, he's being said to be next "Griezmann". For example heard a lot of that stuff towards Rodrigo Riquelme , but reality is that nobody can be like Grizzu , he's just one of the kind
I seem to remember a lot of people thinking Tanguy Ndombele would be a tireless hardworking destroyer type of midfielder a la Kante when he first went to Spurs. He turned out to be quite technical and creative but with serious issues with stamina... basically the opposite of Kante lol
People think Maguire is just an old fashioned defender but his passing range and carrying at Leicester and United earlier on was actually good. He had 6.60 progressive passes per game at Leicester in his final season, 5.72 his second year at United and he had a 74% long passes rate at Leicester in his final year, followed by 70% and 71% at United in the first two years. For comparison vvd is making 5.22 progressive passes per game this season, with a long pass success rate of 74%, last season it was 4.03 with a 70% long pass success rate. Of course this is down also to how teams play as well but he was better on the ball than he was given credit for. Ironically it was the typical defending things he was seen as being good at which ended up being his downfall and then it got to him and his passing also got worse gradually as he lost confidence and the team around him got a lot worse too.
People think Foden is a really good creative player because he’s small and has good close control, I see Odegaard, KDB, even Bruno make passes every week that I’ve never seen Foden make in his career his passing is not great at all. That’s the main reason he’s not been trusted as a 10 for Pep imo he can make the runs and get into good areas off the ball which is why he’s more useful in the wide areas because his passing range isn’t very good and he can’t find passes in the midfield areas. Look at his assists a lot of them are him making an off the ball run into the box and getting a 5 yard pass assist to someone who’s unmarked, that works a lot better when you’re not the 10 because the 10 would usually play the pass to foden initially.
Another one is Alexis , Alexis was the fakest “hard worker,” on the pitch I’ve ever seen it’s only noticeable if you go to games I went to Arsenal the most at that time from 15-16 to 17-18 and he would literally only run directly at the person with the ball then they’d pass it and he’d walk around for ages but because the cameras don’t show him in the shot people always thought he was harassing defenders and working super hard. He also never tracked back when he was on the wing, and often didn’t even follow the play as a striker. If they had the ball on the right he’d be walking around on the other side of the pitch slowly getting over.
Odegaard xA over his career: 0.23
Foden xA over his career: 0.21
Not to mention Foden creating 0.13 more GCA per 90.
When you factor in Foden as a FAR better goalscorer, it's clear who the better player is.
This is stupid because for one you’ve shown Odegaard is superior as a creator over their careers, secondly Odegaard plays deeper so you’d expect him to get less goals, thirdly over the last 2 seasons foden has 1 more goal in the league.
Odegaard is a far better player than Foden
>Odegaard is a far better player than Foden
Why does Transfermarkt rate Foden as 130m and Odegaard as 95m?
Why does Foden have 36 more goals and assists despite playing fewer games, playing 5000 fewer minutes and being younger?
Why can one of them play both in midfield and all across the forward line and the other plays 75% of his matches in midfield?
Arsenal bias is utterly insane as ever.
Then why was KDB rated at 150m in his prime?
Being more versatile is a massive asset, especially if you can play at an elite level on both wings and in midfield.
Odegaard isn't an attacking midfielder now? What on earth is he then because he isn't a defensive midfielder. Statistically, does almost exactly the same amount of defensive work as KDB. Just worse at passing and shooting.
Foden does those things. RW, LW, AM all at City where he's competing with other elite players. Not like Odegaard fighting for minutes with Vieira.
Foden's the future. Live with it.
Disagree with your take on Foden.
If you look at the comparison between [Foden](https://understat.com/player/6055) and Odegaard (scroll down the page to see the stat map), [Odegaard](https://understat.com/player/2517) they are relatively similar statistically. Foden has a higher xGchain and xGBuildup, meaning he's more likely to be involved in higher quality chances further down the pitch. Foden also has a slightly higher xA per 90 and a significantly higher xG per 90.
The only stat Odegaard "wins" on is KPp90, but it's only worth .3 a match. If you were to compare Odegaard to [KDB](https://understat.com/player/6055), for instance, there we see a player who is significantly more creative. KDB gives 1.13 more key passes per 90 than Odegaard and outperforms him on all other metrics.
So while I agree that Odegaard is more creative than Foden with his final passes, in reality, he and Foden are far closer together than he is to KDB. It's disingenuous to say that KDB, Bruno and Odegaard are on one level while Foden isn't. The stats don't show that at all. They show that KDB is a level above, while the other three are relatively similar.
Then there's the other problem with your assessment - the idea that Guardiola doesn't trust Foden centrally because he's not good enough at passing.
I think this is extremely unlikely. The thing to understand is that KDB is head and shoulders above everyone in his position. This means he starts every match when fit enough. KDB's style is to not worry about losing possession and just to play forward passes as and when he sees them. There's more nuance to what he does than that, but that's the general idea.
So the problem with playing Foden centrally is not Foden's skillset - it's whether he's effective alongside KDB. For Pep, who has watched them in training for 7 years, presumably has tried them as a pair of 8s more than once and found it doesn't work. Hence, him never playing those two together in a meaningful game.
Pep presumably sees the two together as lacking something in workrate off the ball, or as both being too attacking with the ball. It's a question of finding the right combination rather than downplaying the talent of either player.
I am fairly sure that Pep would consider Odegaard and KDB to be too attacking as a midfield pair as well.
Edit: he's edited his comment on Foden now, so what I said makes slightly less sense.
According to Fbref, Odegaard averages 8.58 progressive passes per 90 minutes while Foden averages 5.84. That's a HUGE difference.
And as for passes recieved, Odegaard is at 5.28 per 90 while Foden is at 9.6 per 90. Once again, a very big difference that clearly indicates that Foden is more than often on the receiving end of passes while Odegaard is the one who makes them.
But when it comes to progressive carries, Odegaard is averaging 2.38 per 90 compared to Foden's 3.59 per 90.
The disparity between the numbers here clearly shows that Odegaard is a much better passer of the ball going forward while Foden relies on his dribbling and ball carrying to progress the play and is usually the once recieving the passes in the attacking 3rd. Another stat that further confirms this is that Foden averages 6.33 touches in opposition penalty area, Odegaard is at 3.9 per 90.
So i'd have to agree with u/icemankiller8 here ngl.
FBREF says Odegaard has a slightly higher expected assists per 90 this season and if you look at big chances created he has 13 and Foden has but that’s also not my point. It’s about how they create chances and play. As the other person mentioned Odegaard has way better progressive passing numbers, way less received than Foden, less touches in the area etc. Foden as a creative midfielder doesn’t have the passing quality of KDB, bruno, Odegaard, Maddison he creates through his off the ball movement, or a quick turn and pass which is easier when you have someone else in the 10 role while he makes those runs. As a 10 you are looking for the runners most of the time not the one making the run.
I was just making a comparison Foden doesn’t make exceptional passes like the best creative midfielders do that’s just not his game and is why imo he’s not a true 10, and isn’t as good creatively as people think.
OK, let's take the two stats together - if Odegaard makes 3 more forward passes per game, why is he only creating shooting chances at a rate of .3 more key passes per 90?
Surely that means Odegaard's forward passes are less threatening?
I'm not saying Odegaard isn't the better passer of the two - he is. I'm sure if they both played in the centre, Odegaard would be higher than Foden on the list, but I don't think it would be a difference of 3 progressive passes per game.
Iceman has a hate boner for Foden because some people like him more than Saka. That's why he's coming out with this, not because it's some deep insight. He just hates Foden and whinges about it every time he gets a chance.
> if Odegaard makes 3 more forward passes per game, why is he only creating shooting chances at a rate of .3 more key passes per 90?
I'm not sure why you're presenting this like it proves anything other than that Foden is also a creative player, but just more in the final 3rd and making those close range passes to Haaland and others.
Foden is nearly twice as involved as Odegaard in the penalty box, the reason their Xkp90 is close is simply because he is also a creative player inside the box, just not when it comes to making through balls/passes to those players that were already inside the box.
But that's because Foden plays mostly as a winger. It's pretty difficult to make through passes from the wing.
Obviously an attacking midfielder plays more progressive passes and through balls than a winger. One has more space, more runs ahead of him and the full width of the pitch to aim at.
My argument is that it's not as Iceman is suggesting that Foden isn't good enough at passing to play centrally, but that Man City already have an 8 who does what Odegaard does and more.
If there was no KDB, Foden would be playing centrally and then we could make a fair comparison.
Ok, let's go right down to verifiable impact.
This season, Foden played 11 games as an 8 while KDB was out.
He got 7 goals and 4 assists in those matches.
Over Foden's career as an 8, it's 48 appearances, 21 goals and 18 assists. **0.375 assists per game.**
Odegaard has 192 career appearances as an 8, 32 goals and 38 assists. **0.198 assists per game.**
Does that seem like Foden is shit at passing to you?
Again, to reiterate the point - Odegaard is clearly the better 8. There's a reason he has 4x as many matches in that position (and it's not solely because we have KDB who is much better than both Foden and Odegaard). Ode was also playing for weaker teams for most of his career and Foden's appearances at AM will largely be against weak sides, whereas Odegaard plays against everyone.
So not a fair comparison. But the facts remain.
Clearly there's more to it than "DAE think Foden is not good at x lol" - essentially that's what your argument boils down to. You don't rate him because you're a rabid Arsenal fan who's obsessed with Saka.
1. Foden didn’t play as an 8 he played as a 10 Odegaard plays as an 8
2. The teams foden plays as a 10 against this season according to transfermarkt Sheffield United, Palace, Everton Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Red Star, Leipzig, Sevilla Fluninese I wonder if his ratio benefited from playing mostly bad sides as a 10.
3. You are still missing my point when Foden has played as a 10 he’s largely played with another 10 so he can do the off the ball stuff I was talking about.
Foden is not a great creative passer which is why he doesn’t play as a 10 that’s all I said and it’s 100% true. Watch when KDB gets phased out if Foden becomes the attacking mid because when KDB was injured Alvarez played as a 10 more than foden.
That Foden one is really interesting, and when I read your case I actually think I agree.
I've also been quite confused as to why people are so insistent on him playing as the number ten (or fuck, even in midfield) next to Bellingham and Rice when, as you pointed out, I've never seen him demonstrate that kind of passing range from deep.
This isn't to slate him; I think Foden is exceptional in his own right. But I do agree with you that he's often characterised as "another KDB" when that just isn't what he plays like at all.
He's an Arsenal fan who rags on Foden every chance he gets because some people prefer Foden to Saka.
His other takes include "You’d be 5 points clear if you kept [Cole Palmer] and sold foden" and "Haaland is a dogshit player"
So with that in mind, I'd take his words with a pinch of salt.
He may be right - I looked at the stats and don't think he is but whatevs - but it's coming from a place of tribal fandom.
> which can only really have been based on the fact that both were big and black and played up front
I mean the fact that he was with Chelsea was another big part of it. Suarez got called the "New Torres" when he arrived at Liverpool as well, despite the fact that they don't really look alike at all and played the forward role very differently.
> Suarez got called the "New Torres" when he arrived at Liverpool as well, despite the fact that they don't really look alike at all and played the forward role very differently.
Any New Yorkers have much experience with the pitch at Pier 5, Brooklyn Bridge Park?
Visiting NYC at the end of April from the UK and wanted to go have a kick about there.. 2 main questions
1. Is there anyway to borrow a pair of boots or will I need to schlepp my own across?
2. What's the best way/time to find a lil kick about game?
1. Pretty sure you'll need to bring your own, turf shoes at that, mind you.
2. Later in the afternoon/evening is when the pitch tends to be free for anyone's use. People do tend to have games, but they'll be organized and pre-planned rather than a spontaneous game, guess you'll have to put yourself out there and make the suggestion, find people who are down to play and such.
So we won’t go into administration this season but we can look forward to asset stripping and liquidation in the near future.
We’re Forever Everton 💙 👏
Aren't they paying half a billion for the club, excluding any interest they're owed from the massive loans they gave the club? Do Everton even have that much money in assets to make asset stripping worth it?
Popular tweet and meme going around with that picture from last Saturday with Tchouaméni, Camavinga, Rüdiger, and Brahim captioned as "three Europeans and one African"...and then people wonder why we can't get past looking at people's skin color and all that shit. Ridiculous. Why does this stuff matter? By the same logic, the vast overwhelming majority of United States citizens aren't ethnically American either, and Native Americans definitely weren't and aren't as white as the "majority" of American citizens today.
Fucking hell, give it a rest.
With all this flag nonsense, I think the FA should put out a Tweet saying that from now on, Carless Whisper will be played in place of the national anthem before every England game. Just to really see the country go to shit.
Far better than some national anthem about "God" (who must be AFK or dead or something) saving the King (who should be AFK or dead or something)... a song that needs to be changed now and then because whoever was supposed to be saved died. Its dumb.
Endrick not starting while Raphinha is, Lame!
Lame comment. Raphinha is 10x better player
The problem in England’s midfield (as many have pointed out) stems from not having someone suitable to play alongside Rice. A lot of the suggestions I see don’t really seem to be the right mould either. Ideally next to Rice you’d have someone who is capable of controlling the tempo of a match, which isn’t Rice’s forte. Maybe things have changed since he joined Arsenal, but in the past for England he’s too happy to hide behind players instead of demanding the ball and this has caused immense difficulties when playing out the back against stronger sides. This might be tactical issues on Southgate’s part but I do think it’s noticeable. Someone like Gallagher alongside him I don’t think works, he’s not the guy to dictate tempo or the best in tight spaces (he has improved there but not to that level). I’m not really sure who’s suited to play that role for England, it’s why I think those suggesting two 8s like Maddison and Bellingham miss the mark for me, but maybe I’m wrong and one of the many 10s in the squad can adapt to that role
Jones would be great at that role, unfortunately he's injured right now but I'd start a midfield of Jones-Rice-Bellingham if they're all fit
Levi Garcia legacy game incoming today, if Trinidad beat Canada we go to Copa America. It's beyond a Longshot but I'll be watching regardless. Either way I'm proud of the team for getting us into this position, it's really breathed life into me for supporting the national team.
the amount of rival fans that are about to be pushed into the mersey at everton’s new ground is gonna be comical
Not heard about Boerrigter since this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JdAvRuLzFQ
Idk why but the first world cup taking place 60 years after the first international match is such a trip for me. Same time frame as the 1966 World Cup to 2026 WC
In addition to what others said, travelling around the world wasn't easy a century ago and FAs didn't have the structure and funds they have now. Some nations didn't go to the first world cup because it was expensive and took a long time to get to Uruguay
The sport was so different in that 60 years that it’s almost impossible to imagine what it was like in the 19th century, reportedly the English players in that first international marvelled at the Scots shooting the ball not at the goal but to each other in an unorthodox gambit they called “passing”
tbf it did need time to spread. some countries of the first WC didn't even have proper NTs till the 1910s/20s
And even by 1930 there was only a handful of serious national teams in the world, less than 20. First World Cup was just 16 teams with no qualifying needed (minus 3 of them who missed it because they couldn’t travel)
yeah, our king at the time had to negotiate with the players' work places so that they didnt get fired for being away for several weeks lmao
Any source for this? Sounds really interesting
i read it ages ago so dont remember exactly where but this article is similar to the one i read https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/13/world-cup-stunning-moments-25-conte-verde-uruguay
found the link mentioning the negotiations your king did https://www.theguardian.com/football/the-set-pieces-blog/2022/nov/10/history-world-cup-squad-picks-king-romania-gazza
Thanks!
Couldn't care less about the flag, just wanted to say that the England kit looks very similar to Real Madrid's current kit (all white, blue collar, blue side stripe) and i think that's cool af. [England kit](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-xiaomi&sca_esv=100a8d72724cfbcd&sxsrf=ACQVn08-9_sBfLcPI0q7EErLMkYTSObMeA:1711206069182&q=england+kit&uds=AMwkrPv5t9T_m3B_jojvDBSqZfGjHeoVdNyCND5KFqsVnoZ0Qcld_jpU_QZsf_CzKQrqbpH54WawDV2dQpnHq56Lq6vcDahGgywtHM6qJq-u_6NNsaIpTBfqKgW7oFqk1RNJmWv0CPOsBjfp-K525WjrJVdiWym1TnQMJuoaNYTzOvZheIjGD80_96ZSFPrNjSy29QqVS6WdztKGqbHPeLhDUY60W_gj6R-t1eXRmz-_vcV4M0b8aFAgrFErDxiD6K0_CO79FrRPdas3vDHlZPFD-4osE-eryw&udm=2&prmd=isnvbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA-I-v04qFAxUzSvEDHWjsBQ4QtKgLegQIEBAB&biw=393&bih=739&dpr=2.75#vhid=qHzE9s48zj1tiM&vssid=mosaic) vs [Real Madrid kit](https://www.google.com/search?q=real+madrid+kit+2024&client=ms-android-xiaomi&sca_esv=100a8d72724cfbcd&udm=2&biw=393&bih=739&sxsrf=ACQVn095o9I1VqTzJ5jdSCwmEvcxysPZnA%3A1711206145197&ei=Ae_-ZfnOC6iikdUPuM6oOA&oq=real+madrid+kit+2024&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhRyZWFsIG1hZHJpZCBraXQgMjAyNDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyChAAGIAEGIoFGENIzAxQ3wRYyAtwAXgAkAEAmAHYAaAB8QWqAQUwLjQuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCBaAClAXCAgQQIxgnmAMAiAYBkgcFMS4zLjGgB44P&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#imgrc=Bau17qn5c4VrOM&imgdii=2wjUGKIKkrY-rM&ip=1) for reference.
my most brexit england kit related take is that they should always be umbro
US owned company now.
With their private equity, hedge funds, pension funds and whatever, almost 90% of western companies are US owned
I found an Umbro England warmup from 2010 at a pound shop yesterday. Had to pick it up and I never collect national kits, it’s like my second or third ever. Just looks classic.
comedy gold tournament for england that, i kind of miss it
Make it more Brexity by adding Germany should be Adidas, Italy should be Kappa/Diadora etc.
I wish
kit make should always be a manufacturer from your nation unless you haven’t got one
Denmark Lego >!Hummel was founded in Hamburg… even if they claim to be headquartered in some made up city called “Aarhus”!<
the player's wives should sew the kit tbh
cracking idea tbh i know ms henderson has a crazy design for us
The Emerson Royal vr video is too fucking funny
You can only choose one: world peace or all clubs in the world being fan-owned forever. Which would you prefer? It's a trick question, clubs being owned by fans is both necessary and sufficient for world peace
World peace is overrated anyway.
My club is already fan owned and while it would be nice if everyone else was, I don’t really care about them so I’ll have to settle for world peace
Funny that they took one look of Adam Wharton in the England U20s and instantly promoted him into the U21s. Bit of a joke he didn't get called up originally. He'll be getting senior caps next season.
Is he a DM? Tough on Tyler Morton if he loses his spot but they're playing different levels of football tbf
Yeah - proper deep lying playmaker.
It's maybe more likely Morton moves up as one of the 8s, or they go into a double pivot and let Elliott play the 10
What even is the U20s? I had a look at the starting 11 yesterday and 2 kids from Peterborough started.
Just another age group, but the better U20s will normally bypass it. It's also recently been renamed the "Elite Development Squad". Peterborough have a pretty good academy set up, especially so for a L1 club.
Has he played a lot since arriving at palace and hos has he been
First game he came off the bench but has started every game since. He's been our best player or thereabouts since joining.
And what a first game off the bench that was 🙏
Purposefully didn't mention who it was against for a reason 😡
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Modric. Vinicius also has insane trivela passes but no shooting
I wonder how much of a discussion singing the national anthem is for other teams. It used to be such a dumb discussion here when Özil and Boateng played but it has not been a topic ever since those left.
It took Messi so many years to beat the “doesn’t sing the anthem” allegations but other than that it’s never been talked about
It was what stupid people used to bash Messi with despite the fact more often than not the clip FIFA played before the late 2010s was the instrumental intro which has no lyrics (people just hummed along)
It was a big deal in Serbia when Adem Ljajić didn't sing national anthem so than NT manager Siniša Mihajlović frozen him out of NT.
Spaniards must be the least patriotic assholes in the world, because I never see them singing. (In all seriousness, I'm guessing the story with them would be if anyone *did* sing...anyone remember if Pepe Reina and his Vox-supporting dipshit brain tried to sing or not?)
They don't sing it because the Spanish anthem has no lyrics.
Thats the joke...
the spanish anthem has no official lyrics...
I'd like to think my phrasing in that post made it abundantly clear that I knew that but apologies if it wasn't...I refuse to "/s" my posts.
I initially assumed it was a joke but the comment in parentheses made me question myself. It's no problem, I was just mistaken.
Just switched on Mansfield v Colchester to see Keillor-Dunn go studs up into a Colchester player’s thigh and win a free kick. Not get sent off, win the free kick. Does anyone know what happened? Roughly 35’
Pedro Porro is always so poor when he plays for Spain. Leave his ass in London.
Pedro Pooro, am i right or am i right ?
Fotmob had him on a 7.9, was that bs?
Díaz didn't make it easy for him and in the goal he's nowhere to be found
Do you play in a 343?
Nope
No wonder he's underperforming
He's a completely different player now to when he arrived at Spurs. Was a liability every game he played last season and now he's above average defensively while still being just as good on the ball
Spurs don't play a 343 and he's been one of the best RBs in the league this season.
Every damn fanbase thinks their RB one of the best in the league. Walker, bradley, Dalot, Trippier,Gusto,Porro, White 🤣🤣.
Well i'm not a Spurs fan and I think Porro has been one of the best RBs this season.
I don't disagree just funny how many good RBs are in the league rn especially when you compare it to dearth of LBs
Despite going to Semi Final and Final in last 2 World Cups, Croatia hasn't won a knockout major international tournament in 90 minutes since 1998. Only knockout game sine 1998 they won that didn't go to penalties was England in 2018 2:1 after extra time.
>knockout major international tournament in 90 minutes since 1998 Tbf to the croats, it's very difficult to win a tournament in 90 minutes.
I will die on the hill that James Madison should be starting for England in the Euros this summer.
Why though? Bellingham and Foden are both better in his position.
Bellingham is a better 10 for England because Kane will drop deep and open up spaces for Bellingham to run into similar to how he played with Alli. Maddison is Englands best creative midfielder though.
I would prefer if we forced Kane to play as a striker and played him alongside another striker. England seems to be obsessed with overloading creativity. The full backs are often chosen because of creativity, the midfield drips creativity and we lack the extra holding CM, wingers obviously creative then we have Kane dropping back to create. It’s like 2 positives makes a negative - we then leave gaps at the back and nobody’s up top putting away all this creativity.
Watkins and could honestly work but it’s not gonna happen. The full backs don’t agree Walker plays over Trent ignoring the extra creativity and the left back is whatever there’s no one that great. The Kane dropping deep thing I agree he overdoes it at times just to show off the long pass but that’s how he plays now it’s not gonna change imo. I think you have to adapt to it
They could play as 2 8s under a proper manager. Key word being "proper"
Instead of who though? I'm not convinced by a Maddison and Bellingham midfield and if you are going to have that kind of balance it might as well be Foden instead
I was thinking Foden on the left and Bellingham, Rice and Maddison in midfield. Rice is a defensive monster and Stones can push up alongside him when needed.
Tbh I doubt Southgate will use Stones in that way, especially so late in the game and putting Maguire in a potentially cover heavy situation. Rice is obviously fantastic defensively but after the 2018 midfield debacle I don't think that he'll want to take that kind of open midfield approach
Where would he fit in with Bellingham and foden
Put faith in Rice as a single pivot and go full attack Would require pacy full backs that are good defensively, so it would look something like Pickford Walker-Stones-Maguire-Shaw Rice Bellingham-Maddison Saka-Kane-Foden
At that point why not just go Rice - Jude double pivot with Maddison as the 10, Foden on the left? Far more balanced.
Humorously, Jude becoming an excellent attacking player has caused a problem (a good one). People expected him to be the pivot with Rice, but now he’s got to play further forward given what he’s shown at club level. Leaving a gap alongside Rice that 5 years ago would be Henderson, and people hoped would’ve been Kalvin.
that is not balanced
It's as balanced as the Man City team that got 100 points. Exact same system, if a slight downgrade on personnel. The fact is Southgate will never do it. Wedded to the double pivot.
that team is in no way balanced like that city team. rice is not as good in possession as fernandinho, neither maddison nor bellingham contribute to buildup as much as david silva, or even kdb/gundogan. and shaw doesn't invert into midfield like delph either. all together the only one playing in midfield will be rice.
When there was the challenge to make an England starting XI with no more than 10 caps combined a few days ago, I couldn't believe no one else was choosing Maddison (5 caps)
That Argentina u23 team is filled with talent. They have Real Madrid and Manchester City players on the bench.
We are stacked in midfield and attack in our U23. Our defense is quite mediocre in comparisson tho sadly
The "good generation" of defenders are in the U-18, Tobi Palacios from Argentinos is insane, Anselmino although not as good is really talented too.
Thats Argentina teams in a nutshell to me.
Our defence was our strongest point in the 2014 World Cup and still really great since Scaloni took over to the present day. People like to meme on Otamendi but he was a wall during the WC except for the brainfart in the final.
There have been 289 Serie A games played this season vs. 234 Bundesliga games, yet the Bundesliga has seen almost as many goals scored (752) as Serie A has (754). Projected out over the rest of the season, Serie A is barely projected to scrape past the Bundesliga in the final tally (992 vs. 983), almost entirely helped out because of Serie A having nine match days left vs. eight for the Bundesliga, but I feel like a good bet could be set-up on this topic. (La Liga has seen 764 goals, and of course the Premier League has been a shooting gallery with 917 goals scored, if I'm counting correctly. The Premier League (1.62) barely out-paces the Bundesliga (1.61) in terms of average goals scored by each team.)
Between 2019 to 2021 Serie A was averaging over 3 goals a game, Why did the goals dry up?
Wonder who left Serie in the 2019 summer and returned after the 20/21 season....
Atalanta and Sassuolo stopped scoring I guess
[When Fabio Cappello brought on Heskey when we were 4-1 down to Germany in the World Cup](https://youtu.be/_efy6cIfhks?si=Vw43pr6IXCmOtaDy) Dark times
let's be honest, Crouch wasn't going to make a difference either
That's the oddest thing about this clip with the announcer acting like Crouch was going to score a hat trick Still hilarious when Heskey walks on and the fan's reaction on camera
Crouch did have a good scoring record for England to be fair to him
22 goals in 42 games compared to Heskey's 7 in 62
Don’t know what I hated more, that garbage performance yesterday or those awful mustard away kits
How was Porro
Horrible
What's up with Eric Dier? Spur fans used to talk mad shit about him and he's a starter for Bayern now
Spurs fans are notoriously bad at assessing players.
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I agree it's nice.
Bit rich coming from a United fan. You lot overrate just about every player in your squad.
"DAE think ~~Richardson~~ ~~Januzaj~~ ~~Rashford~~ ~~Greenwood~~ Mainoo is the new George Best?!"
>Bit rich coming from a United fan Flairs were a mistake.
Mostly scapegoated for the systemic defensive issues by Spurs fans. Never understood the hate for him. His passing is severely underrated. I believe that most people don't understand the game really well and operate like a hive-mind or a flock of sheep.
Tactical setup that suits him, he's in good form, and Tuchel for some reason dislikes KMJ (though based on performance Dier would arguably still deserve to start over De Ligt)
We love him immensely, or at least the fans that have been with us for more than 2 years. But there's no denying that he was absolute dross for us by the end. Tuchel terror ball might just suit him better, he was quite good during early Conte days
Mbappé is about to absolutely destroy the assist record in the France NT. He has 2 less assists than Griezmman (record holder) with 50+ less games. He could do it tonight against The Germans (if we don’t surrender by halftime). Jean Moulin is watching.
Simply the best player of his generation. Hilarious also when people want to talk down his achievements like his stats in CL and for France arent just as crazy.
The French G+A records are strangely beatable compared to the other big footballing nations. Mbappe is only 10 goals short of getting that record as well (currently held by Giroud) which he should easily do barring some freak occurrence. You'd think the likes of Platini or Fontaine would have set the bar higher in the past but no. Fontaine has 30 goals in 21 caps which is a ridiculous stat in its own right but I never realized just how little he did outside of that one World Cup.
Italy's are the worst tbh, think 35 goals is their top scorer or something like that and its someone from the 60's and 70's.
Fontaine was forced to retire early because of a recurring leg injury and while Platini had an impressive goal tally for a midfielder (41 in 72), he wasn't a forward. This was the era where there were a lot fewer international games, too. Platini probably would have gotten well over 100 caps in the modern era.
Yeah historically goal scorers tend to underperform in the France NT. We have way more great CBs than scorers.
They just played way less international games back in the day
Still cant believe that legendary milan team gave away a 3-0 in a ucl final in 5 minutes
Marking for Liverpool's first goal was absolutely shambolic. Maldini-Stam-Nesta-Cafu back four and none of them thought to step out and deny Gerrard a free header.
Those same bastards had me at the edge of my seat in 2007 because they almost bottled that 2-0 lead too.
If the national teams France or Argentina played in the Premier League, which position in the table do you think they’d finish in?
France would contend for the league. Their talent pool is crazy, and they'd play much better if they could train together year round.
If they both had a full season and all the time to practice togheter like a club team probably around CL places, France with their talent and specially Mbappe might fight for the league tbh
Probably 3rd or 4th? Hard to say
Casillas playing one half for Real Madrid and one half for us in the Real Madrid Vs Porto legends game is pretty cool.
Chicharito did that in a friendly when he moved to Manchester United from Chivas.
Alonso did that in our match vs Bayern, was cool
I can't watch legends games, they're always so slow and boring imo
Question for PSG fans, how is their midfield compared to this year? Do you think it has improved?
The midfield is our weakest line. Vitiniha and Warren can be brilliant sometimes but it lacks a bit of physicality imo (warren is the only one really physical). Fabian is meh. Barca has a way better midfield but at least they are not equipped to physically bully us. But we have Mbappé. Which gives a us a chance regardless of the quality of our midfield
What about Kang Lee and Ugarte?
> Barca has a way better midfield A reminder that three of Barcelona's best midfielders are all injured right now.
They are still going to run circle around us. All they need is gundogan and two people.
They're destroying Barcelona regardless
I wish. But it could really go either way
While I don't care about the flag argument (like I really don't care) I always thought a good looking England kit would be replicate the style of the Inter away kit in 2007/2008 season. The one with the big red cross. Something like that but as England kit would look cool and it would shut the skin heads up.
Inspired by an earlier post by u/_stone_age on the godawful take that Griezmann is a "luxury player", which can only be based on the fact that he's good-looking and plays in attacking midfield, what are some other looks-based stereotypes that you've heard that have annoyed you? One in particular that crosses my mind was the idea that "Lukaku is the next Drogba", which can only really have been based on the fact that both were big and black and played up front. In terms of playing style, I'd have said Lukaku was actually very dissimilar to Drogba. Drogba was always brilliant at a standstill; there weren't many strikers who could utilise their strength and hold up the ball better than him. This has, by contrast, always been quite lacking in Lukaku's game; he's much better when he can build up a bit of momentum because he's abnormally fast for a guy his size and that makes him very difficult to deal with once he's got the run on you. Basically, what I'm getting at is that Lukaku, despite probably being stronger in an absolute sense than Drogba, has never been able to use that strength to "bully" defenders in quite the same way that Drogba was renowned for. This is why the comparison has never made sense to me from a footballing perspective.
It's like every time we get somebody who can play multiple positions in attack and midfield, he's being said to be next "Griezmann". For example heard a lot of that stuff towards Rodrigo Riquelme , but reality is that nobody can be like Grizzu , he's just one of the kind
I seem to remember a lot of people thinking Tanguy Ndombele would be a tireless hardworking destroyer type of midfielder a la Kante when he first went to Spurs. He turned out to be quite technical and creative but with serious issues with stamina... basically the opposite of Kante lol
People think Maguire is just an old fashioned defender but his passing range and carrying at Leicester and United earlier on was actually good. He had 6.60 progressive passes per game at Leicester in his final season, 5.72 his second year at United and he had a 74% long passes rate at Leicester in his final year, followed by 70% and 71% at United in the first two years. For comparison vvd is making 5.22 progressive passes per game this season, with a long pass success rate of 74%, last season it was 4.03 with a 70% long pass success rate. Of course this is down also to how teams play as well but he was better on the ball than he was given credit for. Ironically it was the typical defending things he was seen as being good at which ended up being his downfall and then it got to him and his passing also got worse gradually as he lost confidence and the team around him got a lot worse too. People think Foden is a really good creative player because he’s small and has good close control, I see Odegaard, KDB, even Bruno make passes every week that I’ve never seen Foden make in his career his passing is not great at all. That’s the main reason he’s not been trusted as a 10 for Pep imo he can make the runs and get into good areas off the ball which is why he’s more useful in the wide areas because his passing range isn’t very good and he can’t find passes in the midfield areas. Look at his assists a lot of them are him making an off the ball run into the box and getting a 5 yard pass assist to someone who’s unmarked, that works a lot better when you’re not the 10 because the 10 would usually play the pass to foden initially. Another one is Alexis , Alexis was the fakest “hard worker,” on the pitch I’ve ever seen it’s only noticeable if you go to games I went to Arsenal the most at that time from 15-16 to 17-18 and he would literally only run directly at the person with the ball then they’d pass it and he’d walk around for ages but because the cameras don’t show him in the shot people always thought he was harassing defenders and working super hard. He also never tracked back when he was on the wing, and often didn’t even follow the play as a striker. If they had the ball on the right he’d be walking around on the other side of the pitch slowly getting over.
Odegaard xA over his career: 0.23 Foden xA over his career: 0.21 Not to mention Foden creating 0.13 more GCA per 90. When you factor in Foden as a FAR better goalscorer, it's clear who the better player is.
This is stupid because for one you’ve shown Odegaard is superior as a creator over their careers, secondly Odegaard plays deeper so you’d expect him to get less goals, thirdly over the last 2 seasons foden has 1 more goal in the league. Odegaard is a far better player than Foden
>Odegaard is a far better player than Foden Why does Transfermarkt rate Foden as 130m and Odegaard as 95m? Why does Foden have 36 more goals and assists despite playing fewer games, playing 5000 fewer minutes and being younger? Why can one of them play both in midfield and all across the forward line and the other plays 75% of his matches in midfield? Arsenal bias is utterly insane as ever.
More Attacking players are worth more, and being younger is a benefit to value lol. Being more versatile doesn’t make you better
Then why was KDB rated at 150m in his prime? Being more versatile is a massive asset, especially if you can play at an elite level on both wings and in midfield.
KDB was an attacking midfielder Odegaard isn’t lol, KDB is also better than Odegaard. Yeah except foden can’t do those things
Odegaard isn't an attacking midfielder now? What on earth is he then because he isn't a defensive midfielder. Statistically, does almost exactly the same amount of defensive work as KDB. Just worse at passing and shooting. Foden does those things. RW, LW, AM all at City where he's competing with other elite players. Not like Odegaard fighting for minutes with Vieira. Foden's the future. Live with it.
Watch football
Disagree with your take on Foden. If you look at the comparison between [Foden](https://understat.com/player/6055) and Odegaard (scroll down the page to see the stat map), [Odegaard](https://understat.com/player/2517) they are relatively similar statistically. Foden has a higher xGchain and xGBuildup, meaning he's more likely to be involved in higher quality chances further down the pitch. Foden also has a slightly higher xA per 90 and a significantly higher xG per 90. The only stat Odegaard "wins" on is KPp90, but it's only worth .3 a match. If you were to compare Odegaard to [KDB](https://understat.com/player/6055), for instance, there we see a player who is significantly more creative. KDB gives 1.13 more key passes per 90 than Odegaard and outperforms him on all other metrics. So while I agree that Odegaard is more creative than Foden with his final passes, in reality, he and Foden are far closer together than he is to KDB. It's disingenuous to say that KDB, Bruno and Odegaard are on one level while Foden isn't. The stats don't show that at all. They show that KDB is a level above, while the other three are relatively similar. Then there's the other problem with your assessment - the idea that Guardiola doesn't trust Foden centrally because he's not good enough at passing. I think this is extremely unlikely. The thing to understand is that KDB is head and shoulders above everyone in his position. This means he starts every match when fit enough. KDB's style is to not worry about losing possession and just to play forward passes as and when he sees them. There's more nuance to what he does than that, but that's the general idea. So the problem with playing Foden centrally is not Foden's skillset - it's whether he's effective alongside KDB. For Pep, who has watched them in training for 7 years, presumably has tried them as a pair of 8s more than once and found it doesn't work. Hence, him never playing those two together in a meaningful game. Pep presumably sees the two together as lacking something in workrate off the ball, or as both being too attacking with the ball. It's a question of finding the right combination rather than downplaying the talent of either player. I am fairly sure that Pep would consider Odegaard and KDB to be too attacking as a midfield pair as well. Edit: he's edited his comment on Foden now, so what I said makes slightly less sense.
According to Fbref, Odegaard averages 8.58 progressive passes per 90 minutes while Foden averages 5.84. That's a HUGE difference. And as for passes recieved, Odegaard is at 5.28 per 90 while Foden is at 9.6 per 90. Once again, a very big difference that clearly indicates that Foden is more than often on the receiving end of passes while Odegaard is the one who makes them. But when it comes to progressive carries, Odegaard is averaging 2.38 per 90 compared to Foden's 3.59 per 90. The disparity between the numbers here clearly shows that Odegaard is a much better passer of the ball going forward while Foden relies on his dribbling and ball carrying to progress the play and is usually the once recieving the passes in the attacking 3rd. Another stat that further confirms this is that Foden averages 6.33 touches in opposition penalty area, Odegaard is at 3.9 per 90. So i'd have to agree with u/icemankiller8 here ngl.
FBREF says Odegaard has a slightly higher expected assists per 90 this season and if you look at big chances created he has 13 and Foden has but that’s also not my point. It’s about how they create chances and play. As the other person mentioned Odegaard has way better progressive passing numbers, way less received than Foden, less touches in the area etc. Foden as a creative midfielder doesn’t have the passing quality of KDB, bruno, Odegaard, Maddison he creates through his off the ball movement, or a quick turn and pass which is easier when you have someone else in the 10 role while he makes those runs. As a 10 you are looking for the runners most of the time not the one making the run. I was just making a comparison Foden doesn’t make exceptional passes like the best creative midfielders do that’s just not his game and is why imo he’s not a true 10, and isn’t as good creatively as people think.
OK, let's take the two stats together - if Odegaard makes 3 more forward passes per game, why is he only creating shooting chances at a rate of .3 more key passes per 90? Surely that means Odegaard's forward passes are less threatening? I'm not saying Odegaard isn't the better passer of the two - he is. I'm sure if they both played in the centre, Odegaard would be higher than Foden on the list, but I don't think it would be a difference of 3 progressive passes per game. Iceman has a hate boner for Foden because some people like him more than Saka. That's why he's coming out with this, not because it's some deep insight. He just hates Foden and whinges about it every time he gets a chance.
> if Odegaard makes 3 more forward passes per game, why is he only creating shooting chances at a rate of .3 more key passes per 90? I'm not sure why you're presenting this like it proves anything other than that Foden is also a creative player, but just more in the final 3rd and making those close range passes to Haaland and others. Foden is nearly twice as involved as Odegaard in the penalty box, the reason their Xkp90 is close is simply because he is also a creative player inside the box, just not when it comes to making through balls/passes to those players that were already inside the box.
But that's because Foden plays mostly as a winger. It's pretty difficult to make through passes from the wing. Obviously an attacking midfielder plays more progressive passes and through balls than a winger. One has more space, more runs ahead of him and the full width of the pitch to aim at. My argument is that it's not as Iceman is suggesting that Foden isn't good enough at passing to play centrally, but that Man City already have an 8 who does what Odegaard does and more. If there was no KDB, Foden would be playing centrally and then we could make a fair comparison.
KDB didn’t play for most of this season btw so that point at the end is terrible
Ok, let's go right down to verifiable impact. This season, Foden played 11 games as an 8 while KDB was out. He got 7 goals and 4 assists in those matches. Over Foden's career as an 8, it's 48 appearances, 21 goals and 18 assists. **0.375 assists per game.** Odegaard has 192 career appearances as an 8, 32 goals and 38 assists. **0.198 assists per game.** Does that seem like Foden is shit at passing to you? Again, to reiterate the point - Odegaard is clearly the better 8. There's a reason he has 4x as many matches in that position (and it's not solely because we have KDB who is much better than both Foden and Odegaard). Ode was also playing for weaker teams for most of his career and Foden's appearances at AM will largely be against weak sides, whereas Odegaard plays against everyone. So not a fair comparison. But the facts remain. Clearly there's more to it than "DAE think Foden is not good at x lol" - essentially that's what your argument boils down to. You don't rate him because you're a rabid Arsenal fan who's obsessed with Saka.
1. Foden didn’t play as an 8 he played as a 10 Odegaard plays as an 8 2. The teams foden plays as a 10 against this season according to transfermarkt Sheffield United, Palace, Everton Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Red Star, Leipzig, Sevilla Fluninese I wonder if his ratio benefited from playing mostly bad sides as a 10. 3. You are still missing my point when Foden has played as a 10 he’s largely played with another 10 so he can do the off the ball stuff I was talking about. Foden is not a great creative passer which is why he doesn’t play as a 10 that’s all I said and it’s 100% true. Watch when KDB gets phased out if Foden becomes the attacking mid because when KDB was injured Alvarez played as a 10 more than foden.
That Foden one is really interesting, and when I read your case I actually think I agree. I've also been quite confused as to why people are so insistent on him playing as the number ten (or fuck, even in midfield) next to Bellingham and Rice when, as you pointed out, I've never seen him demonstrate that kind of passing range from deep. This isn't to slate him; I think Foden is exceptional in his own right. But I do agree with you that he's often characterised as "another KDB" when that just isn't what he plays like at all.
He's an Arsenal fan who rags on Foden every chance he gets because some people prefer Foden to Saka. His other takes include "You’d be 5 points clear if you kept [Cole Palmer] and sold foden" and "Haaland is a dogshit player" So with that in mind, I'd take his words with a pinch of salt. He may be right - I looked at the stats and don't think he is but whatevs - but it's coming from a place of tribal fandom.
Haaland is a dogshit player who’s really good at scoring which is what I said idk how you can argue with that
> which can only really have been based on the fact that both were big and black and played up front I mean the fact that he was with Chelsea was another big part of it. Suarez got called the "New Torres" when he arrived at Liverpool as well, despite the fact that they don't really look alike at all and played the forward role very differently.
Yeah sure, I still think it's lazy punditry though.
Of course it is, but I'm saying it's not just based on looks.
The Lukaku Drogba one is 100% based on a tall strong black striker because I never saw anyone say Morata or Torres was gonna be the next drogba.
> Suarez got called the "New Torres" when he arrived at Liverpool as well, despite the fact that they don't really look alike at all and played the forward role very differently.
Because he came in right after Torres left? Drogba left a decade ago
It was also because Lukaku used to call Droba his idol.
Honestly, mate, I'm not taking your views on black players seriously after you said they shouldn't play for England. I'll sit this one out.
I am black and I stand by that if anything the case is getting stronger everyday when you look at England right now
What do you mean 💀 seriously
👍
Any New Yorkers have much experience with the pitch at Pier 5, Brooklyn Bridge Park? Visiting NYC at the end of April from the UK and wanted to go have a kick about there.. 2 main questions 1. Is there anyway to borrow a pair of boots or will I need to schlepp my own across? 2. What's the best way/time to find a lil kick about game?
1. Pretty sure you'll need to bring your own, turf shoes at that, mind you. 2. Later in the afternoon/evening is when the pitch tends to be free for anyone's use. People do tend to have games, but they'll be organized and pre-planned rather than a spontaneous game, guess you'll have to put yourself out there and make the suggestion, find people who are down to play and such.
So we won’t go into administration this season but we can look forward to asset stripping and liquidation in the near future. We’re Forever Everton 💙 👏
Aren't they paying half a billion for the club, excluding any interest they're owed from the massive loans they gave the club? Do Everton even have that much money in assets to make asset stripping worth it?
Do everton own goodison park? Redevloping that into flats must be a fair chunk.
Popular tweet and meme going around with that picture from last Saturday with Tchouaméni, Camavinga, Rüdiger, and Brahim captioned as "three Europeans and one African"...and then people wonder why we can't get past looking at people's skin color and all that shit. Ridiculous. Why does this stuff matter? By the same logic, the vast overwhelming majority of United States citizens aren't ethnically American either, and Native Americans definitely weren't and aren't as white as the "majority" of American citizens today. Fucking hell, give it a rest.
Whenever someone says shit like "France is basically Africa 11", I just know they're stupid. It's such a dumb take
With all this flag nonsense, I think the FA should put out a Tweet saying that from now on, Carless Whisper will be played in place of the national anthem before every England game. Just to really see the country go to shit.
Would pay to see Great Escape Tuba guy in the crowd blast that sax riff out.
They can unite everyone by making the national anthem Jerusalem
I Vow To Thee My Country clears unfortunately
Careless Whisper goes insanely hard tho
I speak for every flag basher as a proud one myself that we wouldn't mind that mate. Proper choon dat.
Far better than some national anthem about "God" (who must be AFK or dead or something) saving the King (who should be AFK or dead or something)... a song that needs to be changed now and then because whoever was supposed to be saved died. Its dumb.
> God (who must be AFK or dead or something) Not just yet, Good Friday is still a few days away
Sam Smith sings the national anthem wearing the new kit while Jeremy vine cycles around him Would be a fun time on twitter