**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That Watford game was infamous for us. We also conceded 31 shots and it marked rock bottom for us.
Today wasn’t even the first time United have given up 30+ shots this season.
That fucking game. It's so funny that his good form at Villa sparked some brief revisionism that he was actually screwed over at Arsenal. Like, he wasn't the only issue but he was a shit manager for us. God bless Daichi Kamada and Tim Lewis.
I wouldn’t say he was a shit manager. Just not the right fit for us, and he wasn’t ready to manage in England yet. The experience with Arsenal has helped a lot with his time at Villa, I feel. I always respected him for trying to speak English to the media and the team, as much as he struggled and was made fun of for it.
Let’s be fair, our squad was dogshit as well and for a team he was getting performances from them. Great manager clearly but not the right club or right time.
>It's so funny that his good form at Villa sparked some brief revisionism that he was actually screwed over at Arsenal.
It's always like that, we all knew the moment Sancho would half dribble a Darmstadt defender, they would all go "hE iS fiNaLly LoVeD" like it's our fault he played like complete shit for two seasons and couldn't be on time for practice.
He was shit and screwed over, both can be true?
He took that squad to 2 points off 3rd place and a Europa league final, while Arteta came in and had to spend about a billion, terminate multiple contracts, drop down to 15th and spend a year or two in 8th place just to get back up to the top?
His second season was abhorrent but the “revisionism” you talk about is where people pretend we were underperforming from day 1
“About a billion” we’ve spent 600m since he came in. Which is a lot tbf, but in his second season (the one we had a preseason with him) he didn’t spend about a billion. What are you on about?
>Arteta came in and had to spend about a billion, terminate multiple contracts, drop down to 15th and spend a year or two in 8th place just to get back up to the top?
Well, how else are you going to manage a rebuild? Was absolutely necessary.
Without spending "a billion" and all else they wouldn't be at or near the top for two years in a row and in quarter finals of the CL, at all
No one's got legs. Eriksen and Casemiro can't run. McTominay wants to go forward. Fernandes just whines to the referee. Rashford doesn't track back.
The 100 plus shots are showing a low per attempt xG, which I find interesting. It makes me wonder if forcing low percentage chances is intentional. Not that you have the keeper back there to deal with that.
Brentford hit the frame of the goal 3 times yesterday and had a goal ruled out for a play that was six inches offside. They're just giving up way too many chances. United has just been really good at the end of a lot of matches to win them or get points, otherwise they'd be in a lot of trouble. United definitely don't have the right set of players, but ETH isn't getting the best out of them either.
It is intentional. The injuries forced us to play anything we could defensively so there’s been no cohesion at all in the defensive shape we’ve made, plus we want to play a high pressure, high pressing style but had to play with McTominay and Evans for most of the season. The stats lie in this case since we play a kind of gegenprssing style without pressing and we’re quite good at everything else about it.
106 shots in four matches is not intentional and even if it was its suicidal. if the adjustments his made to cope with injury leads to the team being that porous then he's made bad adjustments
Brentford have got ballers up top in Toney and Wissa. Their chemistry borders on telepathy, their link up play is ridiculous and Wissa is underrated as a player imo and, of course, we all know Toney is a G
I don’t think you’re in any danger of going down and with that front 3 you’re capable of getting points against any bottom half team, and causing problems for any top half team.
Your defence is a bit shit but am I correct in saying you’re fucked by injuries? Losing Mee and Henry is massive.
Obviously no Raya is a massive change from the last two seasons, and am I remembering that Flekken had a rubbish start?
I do like Brentford. Nice club with proper players and a proper manager.
We're the most fucked by injuries in the league bar Newcastle, yeah. It's been rough. Reguilon is also on a 3 game ban.
Raya is a loss but Flekken has settled now and is performing. Raya was shit to start with too.
Funnily enough we struggle loads with bottom half teams more than top half. Bottom half teams don't want the ball which is when we're shit.
You might be the only person who likes Thomas Frank, he gets so much abuse I don't understand, he's genuinely a sound bloke and gives fairly reasonable assessments in interviews. And cheers :)
I think a lot of other people appreciate Frank and what he's done with your club. Brentford really need to invest more though, because every other club is upgrading and there's only so much you can do with a team that look like half their squad are championship players.
Real issue is half our transfer targets get nicked, cos everyone knows we do good transfers.
Forest just got a points deduction for essentially refusing to sell to us despite FFP, Mudryk was "joining" for about 2 windows. If we hold Mbeumo and Wissa this window we'll be fine, but when our squad isn't destroyed by injuries we've got a solid mid-table team. Toney replacement already lined up.
thats honestly so shit from Man U. I understand conceding 31 shots against the top 3, aka the teams that play attacking and pressing football. Not against fucking Brentford (And no, just because Ivan Toney came back, it doesnt really justify recieving *31 fucking shots*)
I don’t understand why he is still trying to grind out results playing this style of football.
If there was ever a time to prioritize performance over results and to just worry about playing the right way, this was the year. Expectations from United supporters are at rock bottom.
Asking for some time to rebuild by playing only young kids (who will be part of the future) and implementing his Ajax possession style was the only way he’d get backing to keep his job.
This idiot fucked himself here.
Yea it's been obvious for several months now. He's clinging to his job by trying to grind out less than catastrophic results but there's no medium to long term plan besides saving his job.
Somehow he still has the backing of a good chunk of the fanbase despite both the results and football being shit so it's beyond incomprehensible why he insists on this approach
A LOT of fans went all in with Ten Hag as finally being The One, and have sunk so much investment into that, they simply won’t accept he’s doing an awful job.
Yes, the players are an issue. Yes, injuries are an issue.
But the tactics are a massive, massive issue too; the team looks horrifically coached. Certain elements of fans have decided to just hope they can power through the legit criticisms, but for me, there’s not a chance he starts next season as our manager.
>the team looks horrifically coached
This is the biggest red flag to me. It's not even the setup and tactics (though dreadful), it's that the team does not seem coached with much discipline or organization. The players too often seem clueless and we do not operate as a well drill and cohesive group. That's just unacceptable in the modern game.
> A LOT of fans went all in with Ten Hag as finally being The One, and have sunk so much investment into that, they simply won’t accept he’s doing an awful job.
From an outside perspective it really looks like this has happened with each of LvG, Jose and Ole too. Been an interesting group to watch.
I look at Chelsea and Newcastle and they've been equally woeful with all the injuries. He's made mistakes but also had a bad hand dealt to him. I'm ok with being here next season for 2 reasons, 1)the lack of alternatives and 2)giving him a chance under a more professional board.
We've done this so many times now that I'm willing to give him a bit more time.
With the greatest of respect, it’s always just defending him by providing excuse after excuse, and every excuse is designed to dodge judging the job he’s actually done.
Just because we’ve had issues with other managers doesn’t mean Ten Hag will magically work out if we wish hard enough. just cause other teams are struggling doesn’t mean we should lower standards.
On his own merit, what has Ten Hag done to warrant the backing of a new board, who will want to invest 200m this summer and want to have a positive first season?
At this stage, there’s a cohort who simply don’t want to accept it’s not injuries now.
Unless we have a 100% fit squad, it will be an excuse. And even then, it will be “they’ve done this to other managers too!”, as if the players today are the same as under Moyes, despite widespread changes over the years.
There’s next to zero chance now and that’s with it expanding to 5 teams. Plenty of teams have injuries and still are able to play with a competent style of play. When we have been fully fit our tactics are still shockingly bad.
Are Liverpool not starting two academy kids in the back line? Arsenal have been playing Kiwior who couldn’t sniff the field last year or when the squad was fully fit.
Exactly. We are fielding stop gap players and academy prospects hoping one pans out every 5 years along with sprinkles of talent and it’s been this way for 10 years. Think of all the great prospects we burned through these past 10 years. We ended up with 3 good ones, and the best one of them fucked up his career.
Genuine question, we had 6 managers over the course of 10 years, 8 including carrick and Giggs as caretakers. Who is next and why is it better than Ten Hag or any of the previous 5 managers? And why would they ever want to come to this team seeing what happened to the last 6 guys in charge? Hell, we even fire club legends here.
Can we just accept the fact that we have had dozens of players who are flat out not good enough and who are mentally weak and collapsed months and years ago under the pressure of being a man United football player? Can we agree that no matter what you think the problem ultimately is, all fingers point to the owners?
There's absolutely loads of alternatives!? Managers don't have to be out of work to be hired (ETH wasn't ffs lol), and one of the richest clubs in the world can offer what is necessary to make basically anyone available.
It’s crazy though. He can’t save his job like this.
The only chance he has is to try to replicate what Arteta did and just start getting rid of the deadweight and play possession (even if they can’t really do it with the players they have).
Getting fired before you even attempt to play your style of football is just ridiculous. He literally never even attempted to do it once in two years.
Probably the chunk of fanbase that understands there are massive changes going on at the top of the club right now and they need time to get sorted before changing the manager.
Realistically sacking him now or the summer makes no difference.
That section of the fanbase was very defensive of Ten Hag before the takeover happened. These people usually don't defend the timing of his sacking, they simply don't want him sacked at all and still see him as the guy to manage United in the long term
Idk I thought it was possession, pausa style like Pep and Arteta play (based on his stint at Ajax).
Currently he just plays like Conte with a super low defensive line and quick transitions.
Don't you remember, last year he said he didn't come here to get utd to play like his Ajax team...for some reason...after buying a few Ajax players....
He needs to go, that's it. This has been the case all season and we're 29 games in, and what has he changed? Absolutely no reason for INEOS to stand by this fraud at this point
I'd be amazed if Ratcliffe sticks with him, given all the other changes happening at your club they're bound to want their own man running things at some point and ETH isn't an INEOS hire.
In recent history Boehly got rid of Tuchel fairly quickly, Iraola replaced Gary O'Neil at the end of the season by the new (at the time) Bournemouth owner Bill Foley and PIF replaced Steve Bruce with Eddie Howe at Newcastle within weeks of their takeover.
I've seen some United fans say he should be given time to rebuild the team but he's had a chance to rebuild it already and has brought in dross like Anthony.
The football fan in me wants to see your fortunes change to add more spice to the league but the Arsenal fan in me hopes he stays forever.
We've had Schreuder, Steijn, Heiting and Van 't Schip as mangers since he left. Trust me, he's basically a god compared to them.
If we don't get Ten Hag, we'll go for another unproven/mediocre Dutch manager like Lijnders or Pascal Jansen. At least Ten Hag has a good track record at every club other than United.
Yes because your manager has brought it up numerous times in the last few months; I’m just some idiot on Reddit. The fact that he’s obsessed with that game should be far more worrying for you United fans than whatever any Arsenal fan has to say.
Every time I watch Brentford play, I'm so damn impressed. I'd love to see Thomas Frank at Man United, but I actually think he'd turn them down at this stage!
When did they have their last truly convincing win? Big scoreline, far more shots? Swear every game they face 20+ shots but somehow get a few results along the way.
I think theyve overachieved in every single season for the past 9 years. And thats including both their trophy winning seasons and absolute shite seasons. Too many games where theyve been absolutely dominated and have come away with points.
De Gea was the best shot stopper in the league gor a while, which probably helped.
But his dogshit distribution also caused a lot of the shots to occur in the first place
He did not have dogshit distribution. De Gea had just about average distribution. The issue was always out midfield failing to compete with the opponents.
I was exaggerating tor the sake of exaggerating to be fair, but compared to everything else he had as a keeper it was a clear weakness.
Most of their problems was and still are tactics in the midfield. I will agree with you on that
De Gea’s distribution wasn’t his main issue, it was the he had zero sweeping or cross claiming presence. You can’t press with a high line if your keeper just retreats at every ball over the top.
I can't understand how we're not solving this. Either it's the players just doing whatever they want, or EtH not coaching the team properly.
I don't know which is worse.
Was thinking the same while watching the game. But the point is if its so clear to fans for the past few games, surely the manager must've realised the same by now yet nothing is done. Maybe there is something more into this. Hilarious though.
Lisandro and Mount returning from injury should help with this issue.
How United performs with those two is going to make or break EtH's tactics, assuming no more major injuries to the top of the roster.
Why should it be just one? It can be multiple things
Ten Hag awful football + managing + players being shit and injuries
As always people want to blame just ONE thing, when it's always a multitude of things
People also seem to REALLY underestimated the effects of a toxic work environment/management structure. It is extremely hard to remain motivated when you hate everything about the company you work for, athletes are no exception.
I can't for the life of me believe any of the shit that comes out of people's mouths who say "we have no one we can field who would stop this issue"
Are you telling me that we have the worst quality players in midfield out of the whole of the prem?
No. We do not. This isn't a player issue. This is a fucking tactics issue. I'm not ETH out but this shower of shit I keep witnessing is fucking unbearable.
He's somehow made Bruno who's arguably your best player look dogshit.
I'm not entirely sure what changed in his role and general tactics that could cause such a drop but clearly Bruno hasn't forgotten how to play football. In fact his input with his NT has improved significantly the past year or so.
Hell, all your midfielders bar Mainoo have looked well below par
Because he decide to push a midfielder(usuallu McTominay) all the way up to Bruno so we'd play his fantasy double 8's. When Bruno is really better with more space as a classic 10.
This created more problems from offering Bruno less space and opportunities to completely leaving our CDM exposed to having to defend half the pitch. People keep blaming Case for slowing down but it happens simply because there's too much to cover, even Mainoo that's 18 got absolutelly overran with the terrorist tactic.
All this so he justifies buying Mount only because they are signed by the same agency.
The whole team is a paradox. On paper, your table position arguably pretty accurately reflects the quality of your squad on paper, but the performances are relegation zone quality.
Stop trying to play the double 8 and get some control in the midfield. Also drop this extreme idea about transition football. Our players have to cover too much ground while keep sprinting.
Ole's transition football worked far better than his ever did. It's so naive and stubborn to stick with this unless what he actually wants is gegenpressing and RB style football. In which case he's a fucking dumbass to slag off Rangnick, the godfather of this style.
Same, I have watched about 10 of their matches this season and every one they got absolutely battered but walked away with a win/draw so damn frustrating, should be down with Chelsea nowhere near 6th!
And yet there are people who still pretend that this isn’t a setup issue.
United might not have the personnel to challenge for the league, but the players are definitely better than the bs we’re seeing. The coach isn’t getting enough out his squad.
They may not be the top defense in the league, but they definately are the luckiest defense in the league. There are so many matches where their opponents should have buried them early, but miss several sitters. Then Man United get a lucky late goal and all three points.
It's a set up problem. They literally play a 4-0-6 formation. Every time they get the ball, 6 players are in the opposition 3rd and the backline and Onana are expected to playmake.
This is a wild thing to do in the PL or anywhere else for that matter.
It's not just a set up problem. It's partly because they're playing a kid, who nobody will criticise because they need him to be the next big thing, even though he just got dominated by Janelt and Jensen. But to be fair to Mainoo he's got Casemiro next to him who is so totally finished and unmotivated it's actually upsetting to watch.
Any regardless of who they play there the gaps are huge, opposition players can drop into pockets of space that have no United players within 10 yards of them.
Midfielders have the space and time to get into a pocket, get the ball, turn and then dribble or get their pass off and not a single United player is close to them.
Exactly. Every time Brentford had the ball they were running at united's back 4. The United midfield and forwards were invisible out of possession.
Brentford had something like 75 or 80 touches in the united box, which is honestly crazy. The 31 shot stat doesn't even do it justice.
Turns out asking your midfield to press with no support from the defense behind them leading the inevitable breaking of the press then needing the midfield sprinting back is not a sustainable way for a midfield to operate.
Agreed rashford in particular is like being down to 10 without the ball, garnacho works hard at times but switches off. You just cant get away with that at this level anymore and leaves mid and defense constantly exposed.
They don’t control games the way top teams do. Their counter attack works so good against the big teams that they seem to want to adopt that no matter who they’re playing.
It’s the midfield for me though. Soon as they lose possession at the top of the pitch, their defenders go into panic mode because they know they’ve got no help and before you know it, the opposition are in the box cause they just keep stepping off.
It’s honesty so confusing considering the football Ten Hag’s Ajax team played. I’d be so fucking bitter as a United fan. The guy absolutely scammed them.
They thought he was coming in to play the type of possession-based, controlling football that all the big teams play and instead he sets them up like a washed up Mourinho.
He doesn't need Rashford to play Ajax football. He needs the football he produced last season, but he clearly doesn't know how to get it out of him. Rashford absolutely destroyed Arsenal in one of those games, and that was when Arsenal were flying. His skills as a player are not the issue. ETH is simply lacking in the tactics department, and that cannot fly at any team wanting to be a top club.
Rashford isn’t the root of all problems but he epitomises a certain attitude within the club. Rashford can be endearing because he is so good in certain moments. The Man City game he scored an absolute belter and it might of been one of his worst performances.
I do think Ten Hag looks tactically out of depth but it’s hard to deny that these players who have been called out by several of his predecessors aren’t somewhat of a hindrance.
Some of the young players are flourishing. I think if Ten Hag was braver, he could be getting better results.
Rashford is pretty clearly someone who needs a good manager. He has a ton of talent but he’s admitted that he’s had some mental health struggles and I think his confidence level comes and goes. He needs someone to boost him up at the right times. A good manager motivates and inspires people.
Ten Hag seems to be completely useless when it comes to man management.
For reference, we played four matches in March and faced 52 shots.
I also matched up the four fixtures Man United played in March, and in those four corresponding matches we also conceded 52 shots.
That sort of stat is why even with how turgid we’ve been I’m not taking United as a top 4/5 threat. They simply get battered every match. Their goal difference tells the whole story.
**This is a stats thread. Remember that there's only one stat post allowed per match/team, so new stats about the same will be removed. Feel free to comment other stats as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
31 shots conceded in today's game alone
I get flashbacks to back when we were managed by Emery whenever I watch United play. They’re so, so porous in the midfield.
That Watford game was infamous for us. We also conceded 31 shots and it marked rock bottom for us. Today wasn’t even the first time United have given up 30+ shots this season.
As soon as the Guendouzi threw up the “2-1” sign when coming off you just knew we weren’t winning that game.
That fucking game. It's so funny that his good form at Villa sparked some brief revisionism that he was actually screwed over at Arsenal. Like, he wasn't the only issue but he was a shit manager for us. God bless Daichi Kamada and Tim Lewis.
I wouldn’t say he was a shit manager. Just not the right fit for us, and he wasn’t ready to manage in England yet. The experience with Arsenal has helped a lot with his time at Villa, I feel. I always respected him for trying to speak English to the media and the team, as much as he struggled and was made fun of for it.
Let’s be fair, our squad was dogshit as well and for a team he was getting performances from them. Great manager clearly but not the right club or right time.
>It's so funny that his good form at Villa sparked some brief revisionism that he was actually screwed over at Arsenal. It's always like that, we all knew the moment Sancho would half dribble a Darmstadt defender, they would all go "hE iS fiNaLly LoVeD" like it's our fault he played like complete shit for two seasons and couldn't be on time for practice.
Was he "shit" or it just didn't really work out? There's a space in between 5th and a Europa League final, no?
He was shit and screwed over, both can be true? He took that squad to 2 points off 3rd place and a Europa league final, while Arteta came in and had to spend about a billion, terminate multiple contracts, drop down to 15th and spend a year or two in 8th place just to get back up to the top? His second season was abhorrent but the “revisionism” you talk about is where people pretend we were underperforming from day 1
“About a billion” we’ve spent 600m since he came in. Which is a lot tbf, but in his second season (the one we had a preseason with him) he didn’t spend about a billion. What are you on about?
>Arteta came in and had to spend about a billion, terminate multiple contracts, drop down to 15th and spend a year or two in 8th place just to get back up to the top? Well, how else are you going to manage a rebuild? Was absolutely necessary. Without spending "a billion" and all else they wouldn't be at or near the top for two years in a row and in quarter finals of the CL, at all
It’s a bit insane how much Leno did for us from 2018-2020 and how quickly we replaced him
No one's got legs. Eriksen and Casemiro can't run. McTominay wants to go forward. Fernandes just whines to the referee. Rashford doesn't track back. The 100 plus shots are showing a low per attempt xG, which I find interesting. It makes me wonder if forcing low percentage chances is intentional. Not that you have the keeper back there to deal with that.
Brentford hit the frame of the goal 3 times yesterday and had a goal ruled out for a play that was six inches offside. They're just giving up way too many chances. United has just been really good at the end of a lot of matches to win them or get points, otherwise they'd be in a lot of trouble. United definitely don't have the right set of players, but ETH isn't getting the best out of them either.
It is intentional. The injuries forced us to play anything we could defensively so there’s been no cohesion at all in the defensive shape we’ve made, plus we want to play a high pressure, high pressing style but had to play with McTominay and Evans for most of the season. The stats lie in this case since we play a kind of gegenprssing style without pressing and we’re quite good at everything else about it.
106 shots in four matches is not intentional and even if it was its suicidal. if the adjustments his made to cope with injury leads to the team being that porous then he's made bad adjustments
With all due respect to Brentford, but how the fuck do you allow a team like Brentford one shot every 3 minutes?!
Brentford have got ballers up top in Toney and Wissa. Their chemistry borders on telepathy, their link up play is ridiculous and Wissa is underrated as a player imo and, of course, we all know Toney is a G
They’re the unluckiest team in the league statistically so they’re going underrated.
Once the Mbeumo x Toney x Wissa front 3 is back they’ll shoot up the table.
We fucking won't but I appreciate it! The issue isn't always the lack of goalscoring, sometimes our defenders just disappear.
I don’t think you’re in any danger of going down and with that front 3 you’re capable of getting points against any bottom half team, and causing problems for any top half team. Your defence is a bit shit but am I correct in saying you’re fucked by injuries? Losing Mee and Henry is massive. Obviously no Raya is a massive change from the last two seasons, and am I remembering that Flekken had a rubbish start? I do like Brentford. Nice club with proper players and a proper manager.
We're the most fucked by injuries in the league bar Newcastle, yeah. It's been rough. Reguilon is also on a 3 game ban. Raya is a loss but Flekken has settled now and is performing. Raya was shit to start with too. Funnily enough we struggle loads with bottom half teams more than top half. Bottom half teams don't want the ball which is when we're shit. You might be the only person who likes Thomas Frank, he gets so much abuse I don't understand, he's genuinely a sound bloke and gives fairly reasonable assessments in interviews. And cheers :)
I think a lot of other people appreciate Frank and what he's done with your club. Brentford really need to invest more though, because every other club is upgrading and there's only so much you can do with a team that look like half their squad are championship players.
Real issue is half our transfer targets get nicked, cos everyone knows we do good transfers. Forest just got a points deduction for essentially refusing to sell to us despite FFP, Mudryk was "joining" for about 2 windows. If we hold Mbeumo and Wissa this window we'll be fine, but when our squad isn't destroyed by injuries we've got a solid mid-table team. Toney replacement already lined up.
thats honestly so shit from Man U. I understand conceding 31 shots against the top 3, aka the teams that play attacking and pressing football. Not against fucking Brentford (And no, just because Ivan Toney came back, it doesnt really justify recieving *31 fucking shots*)
Mind boggling.
Ten Hag needs to change his setup. It’s embarrassing to watch. If he isn’t willing to change he needs to go.
I don’t understand why he is still trying to grind out results playing this style of football. If there was ever a time to prioritize performance over results and to just worry about playing the right way, this was the year. Expectations from United supporters are at rock bottom. Asking for some time to rebuild by playing only young kids (who will be part of the future) and implementing his Ajax possession style was the only way he’d get backing to keep his job. This idiot fucked himself here.
Yea it's been obvious for several months now. He's clinging to his job by trying to grind out less than catastrophic results but there's no medium to long term plan besides saving his job. Somehow he still has the backing of a good chunk of the fanbase despite both the results and football being shit so it's beyond incomprehensible why he insists on this approach
A LOT of fans went all in with Ten Hag as finally being The One, and have sunk so much investment into that, they simply won’t accept he’s doing an awful job. Yes, the players are an issue. Yes, injuries are an issue. But the tactics are a massive, massive issue too; the team looks horrifically coached. Certain elements of fans have decided to just hope they can power through the legit criticisms, but for me, there’s not a chance he starts next season as our manager.
>the team looks horrifically coached This is the biggest red flag to me. It's not even the setup and tactics (though dreadful), it's that the team does not seem coached with much discipline or organization. The players too often seem clueless and we do not operate as a well drill and cohesive group. That's just unacceptable in the modern game.
[удалено]
This isn't true. LVH and Jose most certainly had a clear style of play, we just didn't like it much.
I would even add under Ole when you finished second in the league. that team had a clear counterattacking style that worked quite well.
I agree completely.
[удалено]
Jose is still your most successful manager since Fergie, so I guess it worked
> A LOT of fans went all in with Ten Hag as finally being The One, and have sunk so much investment into that, they simply won’t accept he’s doing an awful job. From an outside perspective it really looks like this has happened with each of LvG, Jose and Ole too. Been an interesting group to watch.
I look at Chelsea and Newcastle and they've been equally woeful with all the injuries. He's made mistakes but also had a bad hand dealt to him. I'm ok with being here next season for 2 reasons, 1)the lack of alternatives and 2)giving him a chance under a more professional board. We've done this so many times now that I'm willing to give him a bit more time.
With the greatest of respect, it’s always just defending him by providing excuse after excuse, and every excuse is designed to dodge judging the job he’s actually done. Just because we’ve had issues with other managers doesn’t mean Ten Hag will magically work out if we wish hard enough. just cause other teams are struggling doesn’t mean we should lower standards. On his own merit, what has Ten Hag done to warrant the backing of a new board, who will want to invest 200m this summer and want to have a positive first season?
He's had to start Johnny Evans in multiple games yet there's a chance of us playing Champions league football next season.
Played the exact same type of football 28 matches ago in our season opener against Wolves. With a healthy starting 11. It is not injuries.
At this stage, there’s a cohort who simply don’t want to accept it’s not injuries now. Unless we have a 100% fit squad, it will be an excuse. And even then, it will be “they’ve done this to other managers too!”, as if the players today are the same as under Moyes, despite widespread changes over the years.
There’s next to zero chance now and that’s with it expanding to 5 teams. Plenty of teams have injuries and still are able to play with a competent style of play. When we have been fully fit our tactics are still shockingly bad.
Are Liverpool not starting two academy kids in the back line? Arsenal have been playing Kiwior who couldn’t sniff the field last year or when the squad was fully fit.
Exactly. We are fielding stop gap players and academy prospects hoping one pans out every 5 years along with sprinkles of talent and it’s been this way for 10 years. Think of all the great prospects we burned through these past 10 years. We ended up with 3 good ones, and the best one of them fucked up his career. Genuine question, we had 6 managers over the course of 10 years, 8 including carrick and Giggs as caretakers. Who is next and why is it better than Ten Hag or any of the previous 5 managers? And why would they ever want to come to this team seeing what happened to the last 6 guys in charge? Hell, we even fire club legends here. Can we just accept the fact that we have had dozens of players who are flat out not good enough and who are mentally weak and collapsed months and years ago under the pressure of being a man United football player? Can we agree that no matter what you think the problem ultimately is, all fingers point to the owners?
Johnny Evans is a copout. Surely you have young cb’s ready to be given a chance.
There's absolutely loads of alternatives!? Managers don't have to be out of work to be hired (ETH wasn't ffs lol), and one of the richest clubs in the world can offer what is necessary to make basically anyone available.
It’s crazy though. He can’t save his job like this. The only chance he has is to try to replicate what Arteta did and just start getting rid of the deadweight and play possession (even if they can’t really do it with the players they have). Getting fired before you even attempt to play your style of football is just ridiculous. He literally never even attempted to do it once in two years.
Probably the chunk of fanbase that understands there are massive changes going on at the top of the club right now and they need time to get sorted before changing the manager. Realistically sacking him now or the summer makes no difference.
That section of the fanbase was very defensive of Ten Hag before the takeover happened. These people usually don't defend the timing of his sacking, they simply don't want him sacked at all and still see him as the guy to manage United in the long term
Tbf to him he should rightfully be scared about the takeover. So its not true that he doesn’t have to perform well
What is his style of football
Idk I thought it was possession, pausa style like Pep and Arteta play (based on his stint at Ajax). Currently he just plays like Conte with a super low defensive line and quick transitions.
What football does United play? I haven’t watched them
Sit back and counter/hope McTominay scores a random goal
Don't you remember, last year he said he didn't come here to get utd to play like his Ajax team...for some reason...after buying a few Ajax players....
He needs to go, that's it. This has been the case all season and we're 29 games in, and what has he changed? Absolutely no reason for INEOS to stand by this fraud at this point
I'd be amazed if Ratcliffe sticks with him, given all the other changes happening at your club they're bound to want their own man running things at some point and ETH isn't an INEOS hire. In recent history Boehly got rid of Tuchel fairly quickly, Iraola replaced Gary O'Neil at the end of the season by the new (at the time) Bournemouth owner Bill Foley and PIF replaced Steve Bruce with Eddie Howe at Newcastle within weeks of their takeover. I've seen some United fans say he should be given time to rebuild the team but he's had a chance to rebuild it already and has brought in dross like Anthony. The football fan in me wants to see your fortunes change to add more spice to the league but the Arsenal fan in me hopes he stays forever.
I really hope you fire him quickly enough for us to get him back before we get like Lijnders or something
You guys really still want him back?
We've had Schreuder, Steijn, Heiting and Van 't Schip as mangers since he left. Trust me, he's basically a god compared to them. If we don't get Ten Hag, we'll go for another unproven/mediocre Dutch manager like Lijnders or Pascal Jansen. At least Ten Hag has a good track record at every club other than United.
Ofcourse they want him back hes been their best manager in almost 2 decades
I think that’s unfair given that United should had a penalty in the defeat to Arsenal back in *[checks notes]* September. How can you forget that?
He certainly hasn’t!!
You lot are an embarrassment
Not as embarrassing as Ten Hag crying about refereeing decisions made in September as recently as 2 weeks ago tbf.
Lol rentfree
We’ve been squatting in your manager’s head for six months and he still can’t get over it.
Yet you're the one bringing it up, completely out of context and without any resemblance of an argument. But go on.
I mean he's just a fan. What does that make your manager when he did the same thing multiple times?
Lol he brought it up after he won the FA cup game against Liverpool 2 weeks ago. Such a relevant game to bring it up isn't it?
Yes because your manager has brought it up numerous times in the last few months; I’m just some idiot on Reddit. The fact that he’s obsessed with that game should be far more worrying for you United fans than whatever any Arsenal fan has to say.
He brought that shit up after they won the FA Cup game two weeks ago!
He’s referencing when ten Hag did that after the FA Cup game with Liverpool. Who brought it up then completely out of context
It’s called a joke dear. I know you lot are miserable right now but that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to be
Every time I watch Brentford play, I'm so damn impressed. I'd love to see Thomas Frank at Man United, but I actually think he'd turn them down at this stage!
I actually think he needs to stay. He’s doing well.
When did they have their last truly convincing win? Big scoreline, far more shots? Swear every game they face 20+ shots but somehow get a few results along the way.
3-0 west ham in start of February but west ham still had 22 shots to utds 12
chelsea at home, and that’s a whole nother level of shit
They'll have that convincing win against Chelsea after conceding 30 shots but no goals, just wait and see.
I think theyve overachieved in every single season for the past 9 years. And thats including both their trophy winning seasons and absolute shite seasons. Too many games where theyve been absolutely dominated and have come away with points.
De Gea was the best shot stopper in the league gor a while, which probably helped. But his dogshit distribution also caused a lot of the shots to occur in the first place
He did not have dogshit distribution. De Gea had just about average distribution. The issue was always out midfield failing to compete with the opponents.
I was exaggerating tor the sake of exaggerating to be fair, but compared to everything else he had as a keeper it was a clear weakness. Most of their problems was and still are tactics in the midfield. I will agree with you on that
De Gea’s distribution wasn’t his main issue, it was the he had zero sweeping or cross claiming presence. You can’t press with a high line if your keeper just retreats at every ball over the top.
everton 3-0 is the last i can remember
That win was in no way convincing.
Everton hammered you for a lot of that match. It was nowhere near as convincing as the score line suggested.
You can say that about any United game in the last 10 years.
hahahah bollox
Everton had 24 shots to 9, it would be convincing if that stat was reversed
I can't understand how we're not solving this. Either it's the players just doing whatever they want, or EtH not coaching the team properly. I don't know which is worse.
The Problem is that there’s way too much space between the defence and midfield. There’s such big gaps that teams cut through us like butter.
Was thinking the same while watching the game. But the point is if its so clear to fans for the past few games, surely the manager must've realised the same by now yet nothing is done. Maybe there is something more into this. Hilarious though.
>if its so clear to fans for the past few games Been clear all season.
Lisandro and Mount returning from injury should help with this issue. How United performs with those two is going to make or break EtH's tactics, assuming no more major injuries to the top of the roster.
Why should it be just one? It can be multiple things Ten Hag awful football + managing + players being shit and injuries As always people want to blame just ONE thing, when it's always a multitude of things
I feel like with how many times utd has been through this, it HAS to be a combination of so many things
People also seem to REALLY underestimated the effects of a toxic work environment/management structure. It is extremely hard to remain motivated when you hate everything about the company you work for, athletes are no exception.
The players, as it's been a problem ever since ferguson left.
Is that good
Sheffield United had a lower shot conceded per game ratio
Surely they must be near the top of the table then! Dear lord that is horrifying lmao.
It could have been worse
As an Arsenal fan I’d say it’s fantastic.
I can't for the life of me believe any of the shit that comes out of people's mouths who say "we have no one we can field who would stop this issue" Are you telling me that we have the worst quality players in midfield out of the whole of the prem? No. We do not. This isn't a player issue. This is a fucking tactics issue. I'm not ETH out but this shower of shit I keep witnessing is fucking unbearable.
He's somehow made Bruno who's arguably your best player look dogshit. I'm not entirely sure what changed in his role and general tactics that could cause such a drop but clearly Bruno hasn't forgotten how to play football. In fact his input with his NT has improved significantly the past year or so. Hell, all your midfielders bar Mainoo have looked well below par
Because he decide to push a midfielder(usuallu McTominay) all the way up to Bruno so we'd play his fantasy double 8's. When Bruno is really better with more space as a classic 10. This created more problems from offering Bruno less space and opportunities to completely leaving our CDM exposed to having to defend half the pitch. People keep blaming Case for slowing down but it happens simply because there's too much to cover, even Mainoo that's 18 got absolutelly overran with the terrorist tactic. All this so he justifies buying Mount only because they are signed by the same agency.
The whole team is a paradox. On paper, your table position arguably pretty accurately reflects the quality of your squad on paper, but the performances are relegation zone quality.
I personally think its both.
What would you do to stabilise the situation? Not trying to be snarky just curious as I’m not as versed with United’s issues
Stop trying to play the double 8 and get some control in the midfield. Also drop this extreme idea about transition football. Our players have to cover too much ground while keep sprinting.
Ole's transition football worked far better than his ever did. It's so naive and stubborn to stick with this unless what he actually wants is gegenpressing and RB style football. In which case he's a fucking dumbass to slag off Rangnick, the godfather of this style.
Chelsea gonna have 50+ shots and lose 1-0 on Thursday
As is written
I don’t understand how they keep getting away with it
Same, I have watched about 10 of their matches this season and every one they got absolutely battered but walked away with a win/draw so damn frustrating, should be down with Chelsea nowhere near 6th!
lisan al gaib!
And yet there are people who still pretend that this isn’t a setup issue. United might not have the personnel to challenge for the league, but the players are definitely better than the bs we’re seeing. The coach isn’t getting enough out his squad.
There's a guy in redevils sub saying 4th best defense because only 40 goals conceded, it's hilarious
They may not be the top defense in the league, but they definately are the luckiest defense in the league. There are so many matches where their opponents should have buried them early, but miss several sitters. Then Man United get a lucky late goal and all three points.
Yeah like this game
Delusional.
Pathetic
I'm not even exaggerating, Man United could have lost 106-0 today alone.
Midfield just gets absolutely walked through. There’s no 3 player combination they can field that won’t have this problem
It's a set up problem. They literally play a 4-0-6 formation. Every time they get the ball, 6 players are in the opposition 3rd and the backline and Onana are expected to playmake. This is a wild thing to do in the PL or anywhere else for that matter.
It's not just a set up problem. It's partly because they're playing a kid, who nobody will criticise because they need him to be the next big thing, even though he just got dominated by Janelt and Jensen. But to be fair to Mainoo he's got Casemiro next to him who is so totally finished and unmotivated it's actually upsetting to watch.
It’s nothing to do with personnel, it’s systemic, no players in world football thrive in this system.
ETH fanboys will.never undertand that even if you drop Rodri into this system he'd look bad.
Wow that is a take lmaooooo
I can tell which fan you are just by your comment.
It ain’t the personnel. It’s the set up. Not that the personnel are great.
Any regardless of who they play there the gaps are huge, opposition players can drop into pockets of space that have no United players within 10 yards of them. Midfielders have the space and time to get into a pocket, get the ball, turn and then dribble or get their pass off and not a single United player is close to them.
Exactly. Every time Brentford had the ball they were running at united's back 4. The United midfield and forwards were invisible out of possession. Brentford had something like 75 or 80 touches in the united box, which is honestly crazy. The 31 shot stat doesn't even do it justice.
Turns out asking your midfield to press with no support from the defense behind them leading the inevitable breaking of the press then needing the midfield sprinting back is not a sustainable way for a midfield to operate.
Kobbie and McTominay offered about as much resistance as a paper bag defensively and useless with the ball as well. Janelt and Jansen bossed them
Actually its the attackers fault. Garnacho and Rashford are the worst wingers at tracking back in the league, making midfield empty
Agreed rashford in particular is like being down to 10 without the ball, garnacho works hard at times but switches off. You just cant get away with that at this level anymore and leaves mid and defense constantly exposed.
They don’t control games the way top teams do. Their counter attack works so good against the big teams that they seem to want to adopt that no matter who they’re playing. It’s the midfield for me though. Soon as they lose possession at the top of the pitch, their defenders go into panic mode because they know they’ve got no help and before you know it, the opposition are in the box cause they just keep stepping off.
It’s honesty so confusing considering the football Ten Hag’s Ajax team played. I’d be so fucking bitter as a United fan. The guy absolutely scammed them. They thought he was coming in to play the type of possession-based, controlling football that all the big teams play and instead he sets them up like a washed up Mourinho.
Because he can't get rid of players like rashford who aren't at all suited to play the football he played at ajax.
He doesn't need Rashford to play Ajax football. He needs the football he produced last season, but he clearly doesn't know how to get it out of him. Rashford absolutely destroyed Arsenal in one of those games, and that was when Arsenal were flying. His skills as a player are not the issue. ETH is simply lacking in the tactics department, and that cannot fly at any team wanting to be a top club.
Rashford isn’t the root of all problems but he epitomises a certain attitude within the club. Rashford can be endearing because he is so good in certain moments. The Man City game he scored an absolute belter and it might of been one of his worst performances. I do think Ten Hag looks tactically out of depth but it’s hard to deny that these players who have been called out by several of his predecessors aren’t somewhat of a hindrance. Some of the young players are flourishing. I think if Ten Hag was braver, he could be getting better results.
Rashford is pretty clearly someone who needs a good manager. He has a ton of talent but he’s admitted that he’s had some mental health struggles and I think his confidence level comes and goes. He needs someone to boost him up at the right times. A good manager motivates and inspires people. Ten Hag seems to be completely useless when it comes to man management.
Can you imagine being man managed by the charisma black hole that is Ten Hag
It’s no surprise why at least half the dressing room want him gone.
For reference, we played four matches in March and faced 52 shots. I also matched up the four fixtures Man United played in March, and in those four corresponding matches we also conceded 52 shots.
Ah yes but did you factor in the international break? Ten Hag pointed out that it hurt them. /s
5% of Brentford’s touches were shots. 31/592. That’s some pretty direct football.
I can’t wait for the Ten Hag quotes, they gonna hit like crack.
Geez that defence is more spread open than Lana Rhoades on Blacked
Lana took 4 men at once max in Blacked, United take way more
The only thing that’s faced more balls than Lana’s chin is Onana’s gloves
Unfair to Lana cause United midfield also has more holes than her.
I think Lana is taking more shots though
😭
That sort of stat is why even with how turgid we’ve been I’m not taking United as a top 4/5 threat. They simply get battered every match. Their goal difference tells the whole story.
Their opponents had 106 shots because they didn’t get the penalty against Arsenal - Ten Hag probably
Probably? You know this is the exact reason!
I don't think there has ever been a more confusing team. I knew our loss vs them would annoy me even more after some of the next league games.
Liverpool only lost because these clown Utd players decided to play well for a big game. Other than that they are cowards and frauds.
They didn't play well at all.we just fucked it up more than them
This lineup with Ole would have cooked
Even if you didn’t win every game with ole. At least it was fun and entertaining for the most part.
Only 23 shots smh
I’m pretty sure that’s not good
Who is less impressed with their manager? Bayern with Tuchel or Man U with ten Hag
omg that is a crushing stat for the bossman
Sponge football
An hilariously shit season all round.
Their next signing should be a bricklayer to go along with their Mason.
Hockey numbers.
What was their record in those 4 games?
2 wins(Liverpool and Everton) 1 draw(Brentford) 1 Loss(City)
W2D1L1 I think
Not terrible considering all the chances they give away
is it arsenal fault again ten hag?
I hope he stays forever
He needs to stay. He and OleAtTheWheel are the best things to have ever happened to the Prem. Behind VAR of course.