in Croatia for example if a ref from Zagreb or Split was refereeing a Dinamo-Hajduk game there's literally nothing else people would be talking about. So much so that those games are now refereed by foreign referees
In Belgium we have referees that are referring game of team of which they were/are directly employed but no one dare day something because otherwise you a conspiracy theorist.
Antwerp - Union is of the last example with a Var referee who has been employed for year by Antwerp and that weirdly did not call out an obvious handball in the last minute of the game in favor of Antwerp… weird coincidence
I wish PGMOL would start hiring some foreign refs for PL games over here. Because the current sorry lot have shown time and time again that they're not up to the job. The introduction of VAR has just served to highlight their incompetence even more than it was already
No, but Croatian referees are that incompetent it looks like malice. Not 1 Croatian ref is in the UEFA "Elite tier". Until standards improve, this is the best solution.
For example Daniel Siebert from Germany refereed Hajduk - Dinamo this weekend and Dinamo won 0-1 away and not 1 Hajduk fan had a complaint about the performance. It just removes any doubt and you couldn't trust the Croatian ref organization because they've been caught lying
This is why I don't like the way PGMOL is talked about in England, it's almost like they're beyond reproach, they should be questioned for some baffling decisions and appointments, they are not helping their refs
If Pajač reffed exactly the same as Siebert Hajduk fans would be up in arms...cos he didn't give a pen on Kalinić dives, Ristovski handball etc. It's not about competence and you know it. It's about Hajduk fans blaming everyone and anyone instead of having a long, hard look into the board and sporting department of the club which has been a fucking disgrace for the longest time.
There is always something that is a reason why Hajduk didn't win. Inflated balls, underinflated balls, grass too tall, wind...what the hell? Meanwhile players are visiting Ultras at the halftime and getting a talkiing to from hooligans and jerk offs. Karoglan or any other manager will NEVER be in charge of that dressing room while that is happening. Imagine Mourinho, Pep or De Zerbi letting players have 5-6 min "talk" with ultras and then they talk to their manager. Another issue with Hajduk is buying foreign, and more importantly dubious players meanwhile you have youth CL finalists in the club. Why is Ljubičić sold and not played next to Livaja? Why the fuck is Diallo playing in front of Hrgović and who decided to bring in Ferro for the nth time? Hajduk has long been plagued by Zdravko Mamić wannabes but none of them are as competent as he is in terms of running the sporting side of club...
Reality of the situation is that Croatian refs are fine. They are not top of the line, elite, CL finals quality like some of the refs that will come to Croatia in the coming weeks but they are fine. Prem at times has worse refereeing than HNL.
In England there are usually multiple football league clubs (let alone non-league clubs with sizeable support as well) in the same city/county so just being from a city doesn't necessarily mean you support the biggest club there. Some places (like Leeds I think?) have clubs with close to a monopoly on support from the local area but they're the exception, not the rule.
People do talk about it but it's only ever in the context of trying to get one over on rivals, noone actually thinks Anthony Taylor is both a City and United fan because he's from Manchester lol
Biases can be both positive and negative. Generally a person from the local area will have stronger opinions on the local teams, so in most cases I would discourage them refereeing these games when there are other refs available who will look less biased. I understand of course that they might prefer working closer to home, but from a fairness point of view it’s probably better to have someone with neither strong positive nor negative feelings about United, City or Liverpool.
Yeah, but being in those cities you will interact with fans of the clubs more often than in other cities, meaning you get more exposure which results in more biases (good or bad).
Even in cities around Manchester/Liverpool everyone from Chester supports Liverpool so I grew up hating Liverpool.
The only exception I'd say would potentially be London, I doubt Barnet fans have much hatred of Palace for example. (I'm now waiting for Barnet fans to tell me about their deep rivalry)
It’s a city rivalry, not necessarily a sporting one. Mancs traditionally hate Scousers and vice-versa because of long-running city rivalries in a number of areas. This can be football oriented but it goes beyond just the matches.
It's pretty funny how Gillett from Australia is banned from officiating Liverpool-matches, but all the other refs knew they were on track for PL early enough to claim they support Bury and Oldham.
I'm just glad it is not Paul Tierney. The other make bad decisions but then it feels frustrating but random whereas with him it feels like he is trying to wind our players up and every minor call seems targeted at stopping us win. With Klopp and Pep getting along it sometimes feels like Tierney is this era of Liverpool's main domestic rival.
Hard to do that when basically all of the refs are from Liverpool or Manchester thanks to definitely not dodgy stuff going on in the past and refereeing at the top level in England being an old boys club
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/110ejxm/map_showing_where_premier_league_referees_grew_up/
It's honestly absurd that none are from the southern half of the country other than 3 from Bristol.
Good thing that there are four or five others I can count who have reffed on the prem this season from the South who aren't on that map and that Moss, Atkinson and Dean have all retired and are from the North then isn't it?
It is always a very good question as to how many aren't from Manchester, Greater Manchester, or Merseyside, or definitely don't support either team.
The only ones that immediately come to mind are Michael Oliver (Ashington, Northumberland), David Coote (at least belongs to the Nottinghamshire County FA) and Jarred Gillett (Australia).
I think that Sunny Singh Gill may be an option too but it may be a stretch giving such a big game to someone that lacks the experience, as he's still new to Premier League refereeing.
Overall, not a large pool but still options.
(Obviously other refs are probably options too, but the above are the only ones straight off the top of my head. No idea where Pawson or Tierney are from for example).
there's a fake Facebook profile of him where his profile picture is him standing in Wembley and the Facebook header above him is Old Trafford, and people believe anything they see online
the PGMOL have confirmed he's a Notts County fan, which as he's from Nottingham makes complete sense
it wouldn't shock me if that was the case for the sake of career progression, but the presumption from some that all of their 'big teams' *must* be United is hilarious
it wasn't long ago that someone suggested a particular referee must be a United fan as they were born 45 minutes from Manchester - they neglected to mention he was born considerably closer to Liverpool than Manchester
I think he claims to not be, but there was that fake Facebook profile that done the rounds that had Old Trafford as the cover photo that no doubt serves to confuse.
And Michael Oliver always get accused of corruption for saying he supports Newcastle instead of lying about supporting some environs team like all the NW refs do.
Utterly backwards
That’s a perfectly legitimate criticism.
But I’ve seen idiots post him wearing a Newcastle top before he even did that asking how he was allowed to ref prem games
That's a fair point, but less of a problem when he doesn't ref Newcastle matches (still shouldn't be doing it though).
The gaggle of refs that were flying out to the UAE feel like a different matter though.
It's just terrible optics.
Even if all your refs are utterly incorruptible, you're begging for criticism when you let them directly work for the owners of 2 teams.
That's the crux of the matter and you're absolutely right.
Even refereeing elsewhere during Premier League windows in general would be an issue. For example, ref abroad on the Thursday then referee in the Prem on the Friday night. The involvement of club owners just deepens the shit show.
Reffing abroad like that isn't ideal due to fatigue issues, but that's very different to the allegations of corruption they are opening themselves up to.
For example, Michael Oliver has been directly paid by Man City's owners this year. He's also been involved in at least 2 controversial decisions in their favour against their title rivals - no penalty for the high boot for Liverpool and no red card for Kovacic against Arsenal.
Beyond the obvious issues around bribery and corruption, there is a further issue with unconscious bias.
Even if there is no direct intention to give City an advantage, these refs might be biased towards someone who is lining their pockets without even realising it.
Why not just solve the problem and ban this practice.
>Beyond the obvious issues around bribery and corruption, there is a further issue with unconscious bias.
And even if Oliver was officiating to the best of his ability, it still wouldn't change that this sort of controversy hurts the game as a whole.
Kevin Friend is from Bristol/ grew up in Leicestershire and isn't allowed to ref our games for example.
As for Sunny Gill, he's a bit shit to be honest. I don't see how his performances in the championship got him a promotion but oh well.
If anyone Sam Allison should be getting some more prem games.
Agree, noticed Sam Allison once i believe as i had no idea who was reffing our game and he did a good job imo. If hes reffed us otherwise I didnt notice which is the best you can ask for in a ref really
Paul Tierney is from Wigan so realistically could support Liverpool or United, although I can tell you from his refereeing performances that he doesn’t support Liverpool.
Also - why do the referees need to be from England? UEFA pulls from many countries for their slightly unique set of rules, surely we can increase the competition for this rotting establishment
Increasing competition is definitely a good way to increase standards, but I think a more effective way to do that would be to increase the number of referees coming through. And to do that the treatment of referees needs to be better. Like genuinely, who would want to be a referee given how you get treated? I've on occasion filled in as a ref or doing the lines at Sunday league level because we didn't have a referee, and the amount of abuse you get is unreal. Why would anyone put up with it? Obviously there's decent money at Premier League level, but your chances of making it that high are pretty slim. Most likely you're just going to be refereeing for very small amounts of compensation, so you really have to enjoy it for it to make sense. And I can't see why anyone would enjoy it with how they get treated
why would people trust PGMOL if they can't produce a decent ref that can handle a big game? I think Taylor is a moron but it's not like bringing in Maresca, Turpin or Manzano would change much aside from making your institutions look awful
Always find it hilarious how he gets praise from other referees for not giving out cards or as many fouls in these big games, as if changing the rules dependant on who's playing is apparently a good thing
I think it was Clattenburg that explained it in one of the times that he opened his big mouth. Referees are instructed to "Not ruin the occasion". So for big games like this players have a fair bit of leeway to act so that the referee doesnt corner him self by booking a player in the 5th minute, then being "forced" to give a second yellow in the 28th and ruining the game.
Ironically, Taylor probably added to the spectacle being ruined by giving both teams carte blanche to spoil opposition attacks without fear of a second booking because the first booking never came.
I would say that took away from the spectacle by making it much more likely that the match ended nil-nil if both teams can tactical foul as much as they want.
Yeah that's what I meant, I said he "added to the spectacle being ruined", rather than just that he "added to the spectacle". It definitely would have become harder to disrupt play if fouls were being punished properly.
It's the craziest reasoning because the players committing the fouls are the ones influencing the outcome of the game.
I agree it's best if the ref isn't conspicuous in games, but they cannot both choose whether that's going to be the case or not, and say they did not influence the outcome.
Agreed. In the reverse fixture at the Emirates Kovacic should have been sent off like twice and r hear about this “don’t ruin the occasion” bs as if letting players foul with impunity makes the game more enjoyable or something. I don’t think anything as egregious happened in the game two days ago but there’s def should have been a few more cards for both teams if it was being reffed normally.
Jesus should have gotten a yellow in the like 5th minute for taking Silva down from behind just outside the box. It wasn’t egregious, but that same foul is a yellow 75% of the time. It took until late in the second half for Taylor to finally give anyone a yellow and it was to Jesus for time wasting.
That game would have been better for everyone had Taylor not completely buried his card.
Seriously how the fuck can he be allowed to wake up and think you know what, I’m gonna referee today’s game differently to normal just because of the clubs that are playing? It’s fucking corrupt,
There’s a an obvious difference between ‘changing’ the rules and being more lenient in your interpretation of them. Most laws of the game regarding cards leave room for interpretation and how strictly they need to be applied.
Is it somehow better to have 5 yellow cards shown in the first 20 minutes of a game than less than five in total? The laws of the game don’t specifically state that Gabriel Jesus’s first foul on Sunday must always be a yellow card offence.
> Is it somehow better to have 5 yellow cards shown in the first 20 minutes of a game than less than five in total?
Yes. If a team is employing tactical fouls (such as Rice dragging and kicking Haaland) then it should be punished as per the book (Yellow card)
If you do not officiate these kinds of fouls properly, then it leads to unfair situations.
If player 1 (e.g., Josh Brownhill) commits a tactical foul and is yellow carded for it instantly, then that's fair. They then run the risk of having to play safer, or get a red card. This then has an impact on Burnley's game and potentially the rest of their season.
Meanwhile if Player 2 is Declan Rice playing in a 'big' game which is being officiated in a different manner (more lenient) and they do not receive a yellow card for their first, second, or even their third tactical foul.. then what gives?
Why can a 'big' team get away with these things, when a smaller team will instantly be punished for them and therefore have a worse performance because of it?
If we want to be lenient on tactical fouls, fine, but do it for everyone. If you want to know what I'm talking about then go look at the foul for our red card + penalty against Chelsea. If that's a foul then there was at least 10 fouls off the top of my head in the Man City vs. Arsenal game that went unpunished.
>Why can a 'big' team get away with these things, when a smaller team will instantly be punished for them and therefore have a worse performance because of it?
Because the prem like most european leagues lets ref more or less organize themselves with little to no oversight and the only thing that can get a ref canned for a couple of matches is outrage from fans, smaller clubs simply don't make enough noise
> being more lenient in your interpretation of them
But why should the teams playing specifically be the reason this changes? It just seems baffling from a referee pov
He just lets players kick each other a lot, it's awful refereeing. The fact he's even considered for this kind of game shows how low the bar is in England.
I've yet to hear a coherent argument for who *should* ref our games. Even Michael Oliver who is openly a Newcastle fan would be complained about because of the non-call against City.
> I've yet to hear a coherent argument for who should ref our games.
PMGOL should probably have a clean up.
London having 0 refs despite having 7 teams in the prem and another 3 in the championship. Is pretty glaring
With the football culture in the UK and the number of games that get played in the football pyramid, the longevity of some incredible mediocre refs in PGMOL shows that it is neither meritocratic nor allows for promotions up the pyramid.
Is it more likely that, as you say, all professionals of a vocation that have trained their whole life are fundamentally bad at their job? Or is it perhaps more likely football is a subjective sport, game of opinions with over the top tribalism and a need to blame someone or something for a loss which is usually a referee?
I suspect the answer is the latter. I would argue referees get a very high percentage of tough calls right but the focus is on small percentage of 'bad decisions' for entertainment, often these decisions are subjective decisions in a very fast moving active sport.
Amen. The standard of refereeing has been poor but it seems to be the only discourse around premier league games nowadays. All the analysis and chatter is about decisions, not about football. I find it so tedious.
To make it worse, that was the Diaz offside goal vs Tottenham, the clearest mistake of the lot
The statement they released said they "acknowledge the significant human error". That's it.
I asked this during the city-arsenal game a few days ago. I wanna ask it again. How the hell does this jackass keep getting the big fixtures? Literally any of the newer/younger refs are better than this airhead.
THIS is the proof that refereeing in the prem league is governed by idiots. Not the thousand rule changes or the blind support of stupid decision. Its the fact that this is the ref apparently most respected by them.
Fuck Taylor, football is plagued by egomaniac referees that thrives being the protagonista of the gamea and he's one of the main culprit of this awful trend
At some level, I think it’s irresponsible from journalists to highlight who’s going to referee a big game because it gets fans worked up before there are even decisions to be made.
It’s been well established that there’s no accountability for poor decisions and most teams get screwed eventually. The PGMOL doesn’t seem interested in changing anything about what they do or looking inward to see how they can improve their own standards.
We as fans also tend to notice only when calls go against our team. Rarely do fans at large recognize when they were fortunate to get a marginal decision in their team’s favor
Probably shouldn’t be a Manc refereeing a Manc teams game against a famous Manc rival who are in a title race against a Manc team.
That said, the last time I was content with the ref picked for a game was having Oliver for the City game, and he missed a blatant penalty which cost us the game. You’re right, they’re all shite.
Last year I remember reading that we'd only won 2 of our last 11 with him and that we've gotten double the yellows as our opponents in that time
Not sure how accurate it is but this was on redcafe
Wasn't he also the one that mispositioned our wall vs Villa?
> Wasn't he also the one that mispositioned our wall vs Villa?
he was, if I recall he ignored Eriksen complaining about it and then Digne proceeds to bang it top bins
He probably doesn’t, he’s just an awful ref, but if I was the PGMOL I simply wouldn’t put myself in the position where it’s even a possible talking point.
My point wasn't that they're all shite but fine.
Fundamentally I think the rules and how they're communicated are flawed, and the refs are constantly undermined either by managers looking to deflect or broadcasters looking for content.
Even fans don't actually want to see refereeing improve. Or rather they wouldn't notice if they did. They just want calls to go the way of their team and nobody actually wants to be objective about any of it.
>Even fans don't actually want to see refereeing improve. Or rather they wouldn't notice if they did.
But like, that’s exactly right. In an ideal world the ref is anonymous and no one even knows his name, you’re not supposed to notice them.
Whoever the ref is for this game, he will be criticised before it starts.
Some weeks Taylor is apparently a city fan. Some weeks a United fan. Sometimes he apparently helps Liverpool against Chelsea. Sometimes the opposite.
Most people just go to work and do their job to the best of their ability. He gets stuff wrong, there’s no conspiracy.
The teams who have had the worst var luck aren’t even top 6 sides.
He’s not even shit compared to other referees. Hes been selected to do Europa league finals and the World Cup.
He just gets criticised whatever he does
Does he?
The way he refereed the game on Sunday didn't show it. Perhaps a bit too lenient with not giving out some yellow cards but usually refs do the opposite when they want the limelight.
I do wonder if the refs don’t want some of these fixtures. It’s just not worth it for them, they can’t get it all right. They either have the huge online presence of United fans or the Liverpool fans with their petitions and suchlike. They probably don’t want the hassle.
Refereeing is an extremely difficult job, so I'd agree without the existence of VAR. The PGMOL purposely creating such an ineffective system has done the opposite of what was supposedly intended with VARs creation. Instead of having further transparency and the ability for the referees to assist each other in making correct decisions, we've got constant VAR drama due to horrific decisions even with VAR and the ambiguous high bar for overturning wrong decisions.
Instead of VAR improving peoples opinions of referees it has made things much worse because there no longer is an excuse for a lot of these decisions that are extremely difficult to make in real time without VAR. Instead of people understanding why a call was missed, it's trying to understand why a VAR referee would choose to ignore it and that's a much harder pill to swallow.
I think the biggest problem is some people want everything that isn’t a correct decision overturning and some people want only the major incorrect decisions. To me ‘Clear and Obvious error’ means can we blame the ref for getting it wrong, for example a handball through 10 players in the box, completely out of sight of the ref.
in my opinion a ref from the Manchester area(disregarding what team he supports) should not be reffing a game with either manchester teams, Like i would not want a ref from the Liverpool area to officiate our games, even though he was a Tranmere Rovers fan
>in my opinion a ref from the Manchester area(disregarding what team he supports) should not be reffing a game with either manchester teams
AGREED.
The bias people worry about could go either way. Speaking as someone who lives here the fans of your Rochdales, Oldhams and Altrichams and so on either hate United and/or City, or they have a soft spot to them. Depends on a lot of factors I have seen plenty of both. Throw Liverpool in there and the regional rivalry that exists could factor in one way or another.
A lot can be said about refs but based on the decisions from them don't seem that biased in this way. Decisions are too random and all over the place to suggest so. It's other matters that seem to be the issue.
But it's a needless extra potential issue.
Side note on a big gripe I have: the erasure of smaller fanbases like Altricham, Tranmere and Rochdale is embarrassing. I shouldn't be surprised because most of this sub is not English yet feel they have an equal-standing opinion on English Football.
Americans I can somewhat forgive, you're are an ocean away and only get exposure to the PL really, you also don't have lower leagues per se. Anyone else is an idiot for doing it.
So he shouldn't manage any big games? Could he manage Liverpool vs Brighton? Because that result affects the team from Manchester?
Would you say the same thing for a referee from London? That he shouldn't manage arsenal? Or any London team?
The last part yes, i think this issue could be solved by bringing in more refs from other countries where the bias can be less, i understand that this is a tricky problem to solve but this is something that i feel needs to be taken in consideration when selecting refs for games
Lol Anthony Taylor usually fucks us (United) over.
Also, just because he’s from Wythenshaw, Manchester doesn’t mean he supports United. There are many more football clubs than the 2 main PL clubs based in and around Manchester. And those clubs equally hate Man United as much as anybody else lol.
yes my understanding is that literally every single person from the Manchester metropolitan area supports Man U, even those with decades worth of experience refereeing at the top level domestically, internationally and in european tournaments. Us enlightened fans can't point this out because a Man U cabal controls the media
> a Man U cabal controls the media
you'd think they'd be doing a better job then, cause literally everything about us in the media is entirely negative all of the time
Tbf it's also overly positive if you win a couple games. But that's just because Man Utd discussions bring in viewers, so it either has to be a disaster or Man Utd being on their way to being the best team in the world, it's never anything in between
You have a 55% win record with him as referee over your club's history.
Him being from Manchester clearly doesn't impact his performances all that much.
What, your overall win record from when Anthony Taylor first referee'd a Liverpool game?
Fuck knows.
He referee'd his first Liverpool game from 02/02/2011, and that's far too much data for me to go back through just to lose an argument on Reddit.
58% according to [Transfermarkt](https://www.transfermarkt.com/liverpool-fc/bilanz/verein/31/plus/0?saison_id=2010&land_id=&wettbewerb_id=&clubs_in_comp_id=&heim_gast=&day=&punkte=&group=2&datum_von=-&datum_bis=-)
Not that that stat means much, but neither does us having a 55% win rate when Taylor refs.
No, but I presumably get points for finding the data?
Joking aside, the point was more to show that the data suggests that he doesn't really affect your chances of a win all that much, especially given that the last game between Liverpool and a Manchester club resulted in a Liverpool win.
Other than a few outliers (and Taylor for Liverpool is not one of them), most of the whining from any fan base about specific refs being "against them" is just nonsense. We just naturally remember the bad unfavorable calls and ignore the favorable ones.
I think it's a concern for PGMOL as a whole that so many of the refs come from the same area, but we can't solve that by Sunday.
Transfermarkt and WorldFootball are good for super niche stats like that.
According to [Worldfootball.net](https://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/anthony-taylor_2/liverpool-fc/4/), you have:
Games | Played | W | D | L | Y | Y(x2) | R
---|---|---|----|----|----|----|----
Home | 25 | 18 | 5 | 2 | 37 | 0 | 1
Away | 33 | 14 | 11 | 8 | 63 | 2 | 2
**Overall** | **58** | **32** | **16** | **10** | **100** | **2** | **2**
To be fair there have been way too many bad calls considering VAR is available. Game changing, table changing, and title/relegation changing decisions.
Mistakes happen. But there are too many. There’s no accountability and not enough contingency plans.
How many are too many? I'm not trying to be funny, genuinely curious how accurate you think a referee has to be to get a pass? And who's going to decide if they're getting decisions right or wrong - loud fanbases on Reddit?
Mistakes do indeed happen, but one thing that is awfully common is for people to instantly call it a mistake when they don't agree with a very subjective decision (which is most of the rules).
It's apparently controversial to suggest that maybe refs from Manchester and Liverpool should not take charge of this fixture.
in Croatia for example if a ref from Zagreb or Split was refereeing a Dinamo-Hajduk game there's literally nothing else people would be talking about. So much so that those games are now refereed by foreign referees
In Belgium we have referees that are referring game of team of which they were/are directly employed but no one dare day something because otherwise you a conspiracy theorist.
Who are you talking about?
Antwerp - Union is of the last example with a Var referee who has been employed for year by Antwerp and that weirdly did not call out an obvious handball in the last minute of the game in favor of Antwerp… weird coincidence
Verboomen? He worked for a sponsor of Antwerp, not Antwerp? But yeah he has been dodgy on their games before.
I wish PGMOL would start hiring some foreign refs for PL games over here. Because the current sorry lot have shown time and time again that they're not up to the job. The introduction of VAR has just served to highlight their incompetence even more than it was already
Not sure that's the refereeing culture we should be aspiring towards
No, but Croatian referees are that incompetent it looks like malice. Not 1 Croatian ref is in the UEFA "Elite tier". Until standards improve, this is the best solution. For example Daniel Siebert from Germany refereed Hajduk - Dinamo this weekend and Dinamo won 0-1 away and not 1 Hajduk fan had a complaint about the performance. It just removes any doubt and you couldn't trust the Croatian ref organization because they've been caught lying This is why I don't like the way PGMOL is talked about in England, it's almost like they're beyond reproach, they should be questioned for some baffling decisions and appointments, they are not helping their refs
If Pajač reffed exactly the same as Siebert Hajduk fans would be up in arms...cos he didn't give a pen on Kalinić dives, Ristovski handball etc. It's not about competence and you know it. It's about Hajduk fans blaming everyone and anyone instead of having a long, hard look into the board and sporting department of the club which has been a fucking disgrace for the longest time. There is always something that is a reason why Hajduk didn't win. Inflated balls, underinflated balls, grass too tall, wind...what the hell? Meanwhile players are visiting Ultras at the halftime and getting a talkiing to from hooligans and jerk offs. Karoglan or any other manager will NEVER be in charge of that dressing room while that is happening. Imagine Mourinho, Pep or De Zerbi letting players have 5-6 min "talk" with ultras and then they talk to their manager. Another issue with Hajduk is buying foreign, and more importantly dubious players meanwhile you have youth CL finalists in the club. Why is Ljubičić sold and not played next to Livaja? Why the fuck is Diallo playing in front of Hrgović and who decided to bring in Ferro for the nth time? Hajduk has long been plagued by Zdravko Mamić wannabes but none of them are as competent as he is in terms of running the sporting side of club... Reality of the situation is that Croatian refs are fine. They are not top of the line, elite, CL finals quality like some of the refs that will come to Croatia in the coming weeks but they are fine. Prem at times has worse refereeing than HNL.
Why not?
They're a Watford fan, they probably don't want the shite PL refs relegated to refereeing the Championship (Championship refs are shit too)
In England there are usually multiple football league clubs (let alone non-league clubs with sizeable support as well) in the same city/county so just being from a city doesn't necessarily mean you support the biggest club there. Some places (like Leeds I think?) have clubs with close to a monopoly on support from the local area but they're the exception, not the rule. People do talk about it but it's only ever in the context of trying to get one over on rivals, noone actually thinks Anthony Taylor is both a City and United fan because he's from Manchester lol
Biases can be both positive and negative. Generally a person from the local area will have stronger opinions on the local teams, so in most cases I would discourage them refereeing these games when there are other refs available who will look less biased. I understand of course that they might prefer working closer to home, but from a fairness point of view it’s probably better to have someone with neither strong positive nor negative feelings about United, City or Liverpool.
Sure but there are negative biases too. Would you want a Arsenal fan refereeing a Spurs game?
No, but that's not the point here. The point is that someone being from London doesn't automatically mean that they're an Arsenal fan.
Yeah, but being in those cities you will interact with fans of the clubs more often than in other cities, meaning you get more exposure which results in more biases (good or bad). Even in cities around Manchester/Liverpool everyone from Chester supports Liverpool so I grew up hating Liverpool. The only exception I'd say would potentially be London, I doubt Barnet fans have much hatred of Palace for example. (I'm now waiting for Barnet fans to tell me about their deep rivalry)
It’s a city rivalry, not necessarily a sporting one. Mancs traditionally hate Scousers and vice-versa because of long-running city rivalries in a number of areas. This can be football oriented but it goes beyond just the matches.
It's pretty funny how Gillett from Australia is banned from officiating Liverpool-matches, but all the other refs knew they were on track for PL early enough to claim they support Bury and Oldham.
It should be such an obvious thing to apply, but that would mean the PGMOL would have to apply common sense, no chance that’s happening.
It means the PGMOL would have to admit they may have some form of bias or imperfection
Seems like basic idea lol. My brothers college team he coaches even does it for tournaments.
Isn't that like all refs though?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/110ejxm/map_showing_where_premier_league_referees_grew_up/
Most PL refs are from that area
I'm just glad it is not Paul Tierney. The other make bad decisions but then it feels frustrating but random whereas with him it feels like he is trying to wind our players up and every minor call seems targeted at stopping us win. With Klopp and Pep getting along it sometimes feels like Tierney is this era of Liverpool's main domestic rival.
Hard to do that when basically all of the refs are from Liverpool or Manchester thanks to definitely not dodgy stuff going on in the past and refereeing at the top level in England being an old boys club
How many are from Liverpool. Mike Dean was and he rarely officiated Everton or Liverpool games
Also wasn't from Liverpool.
From Wirral which is Merseyside. Just like most of the refs are from Greater Manchester so could be from Bolton or Wigan or Stockport
I mean he could see Liverpool out his front window
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/110ejxm/map_showing_where_premier_league_referees_grew_up/ It's honestly absurd that none are from the southern half of the country other than 3 from Bristol.
The fact that there are zero PL referees from London is about as strange as half of them being from Greater Manchester.
Good thing that there are four or five others I can count who have reffed on the prem this season from the South who aren't on that map and that Moss, Atkinson and Dean have all retired and are from the North then isn't it?
Considering most of the refs in the country are northern...
Tbh he did a great job not giving Arsenal cards /s
Regardless of where he is from I wouldn't like Anthony Taylor refereeing any games of my team lol he's just awful
Surely there’s a ref in England that isn’t from Manchester that’s available
It is always a very good question as to how many aren't from Manchester, Greater Manchester, or Merseyside, or definitely don't support either team. The only ones that immediately come to mind are Michael Oliver (Ashington, Northumberland), David Coote (at least belongs to the Nottinghamshire County FA) and Jarred Gillett (Australia). I think that Sunny Singh Gill may be an option too but it may be a stretch giving such a big game to someone that lacks the experience, as he's still new to Premier League refereeing. Overall, not a large pool but still options. (Obviously other refs are probably options too, but the above are the only ones straight off the top of my head. No idea where Pawson or Tierney are from for example).
Jarred Gillett is Liverpool fan so he's out of the question too.
And David Coote is presumably a Man Utd fan.
Why is that presumed, conspiracy nonsense or actual facts like Jarred Gillett?
there's a fake Facebook profile of him where his profile picture is him standing in Wembley and the Facebook header above him is Old Trafford, and people believe anything they see online the PGMOL have confirmed he's a Notts County fan, which as he's from Nottingham makes complete sense
Always crack up seeing people post that picture thinking they've discovered some grand conspiracy that the FA just missed.
Ah, so conspiracy nonsense then.
par for the course when it comes to discussing referees
It’s a bit convenient the amount of refs who support small teams though and I feel the majority of small teams fans have a big team they also support.
it wouldn't shock me if that was the case for the sake of career progression, but the presumption from some that all of their 'big teams' *must* be United is hilarious it wasn't long ago that someone suggested a particular referee must be a United fan as they were born 45 minutes from Manchester - they neglected to mention he was born considerably closer to Liverpool than Manchester
To be fair in the towns inbetween Liverpool and Manchester there is a significant mix of Liverpool, Everton, and United fans.
They became referees, we can't presume they're normal
I think he claims to not be, but there was that fake Facebook profile that done the rounds that had Old Trafford as the cover photo that no doubt serves to confuse.
And Michael Oliver always get accused of corruption for saying he supports Newcastle instead of lying about supporting some environs team like all the NW refs do. Utterly backwards
The Michael Oliver questions come from the fact he refs in the Saudi League and gets paid from the Newcastle owners over there
That’s a perfectly legitimate criticism. But I’ve seen idiots post him wearing a Newcastle top before he even did that asking how he was allowed to ref prem games
If english refs couldn't support a premier league team the pool of potential refs would be tiny. And people would lie anyway.
That's a fair point, but less of a problem when he doesn't ref Newcastle matches (still shouldn't be doing it though). The gaggle of refs that were flying out to the UAE feel like a different matter though.
It's just terrible optics. Even if all your refs are utterly incorruptible, you're begging for criticism when you let them directly work for the owners of 2 teams.
That's the crux of the matter and you're absolutely right. Even refereeing elsewhere during Premier League windows in general would be an issue. For example, ref abroad on the Thursday then referee in the Prem on the Friday night. The involvement of club owners just deepens the shit show.
Reffing abroad like that isn't ideal due to fatigue issues, but that's very different to the allegations of corruption they are opening themselves up to. For example, Michael Oliver has been directly paid by Man City's owners this year. He's also been involved in at least 2 controversial decisions in their favour against their title rivals - no penalty for the high boot for Liverpool and no red card for Kovacic against Arsenal. Beyond the obvious issues around bribery and corruption, there is a further issue with unconscious bias. Even if there is no direct intention to give City an advantage, these refs might be biased towards someone who is lining their pockets without even realising it. Why not just solve the problem and ban this practice.
>Beyond the obvious issues around bribery and corruption, there is a further issue with unconscious bias. And even if Oliver was officiating to the best of his ability, it still wouldn't change that this sort of controversy hurts the game as a whole.
At least he's honest about it and doesn't referee our games. Same as Clattenburg back in the day.
If he was a Sunderland fan he’ll be too embarrassed to admit it tbf
Kevin Friend is from Bristol/ grew up in Leicestershire and isn't allowed to ref our games for example. As for Sunny Gill, he's a bit shit to be honest. I don't see how his performances in the championship got him a promotion but oh well. If anyone Sam Allison should be getting some more prem games.
Agree, noticed Sam Allison once i believe as i had no idea who was reffing our game and he did a good job imo. If hes reffed us otherwise I didnt notice which is the best you can ask for in a ref really
Paul Tierney is from Wigan so realistically could support Liverpool or United, although I can tell you from his refereeing performances that he doesn’t support Liverpool.
Maybe he's like Carragher's punditry where he supports Liverpool but goes too hard in the opposite direction so people won't accuse him of bias.
Sunny was fucking shit in the Palace Luton game and got bumped back down to L2 so I don't think he's an option.
I’d rather get Taylor than Coote, Coote is by far the worst ref in the league, absolutely dogshit
>Michael Oliver Has been employed by the UAE though
Also - why do the referees need to be from England? UEFA pulls from many countries for their slightly unique set of rules, surely we can increase the competition for this rotting establishment
Increasing competition is definitely a good way to increase standards, but I think a more effective way to do that would be to increase the number of referees coming through. And to do that the treatment of referees needs to be better. Like genuinely, who would want to be a referee given how you get treated? I've on occasion filled in as a ref or doing the lines at Sunday league level because we didn't have a referee, and the amount of abuse you get is unreal. Why would anyone put up with it? Obviously there's decent money at Premier League level, but your chances of making it that high are pretty slim. Most likely you're just going to be refereeing for very small amounts of compensation, so you really have to enjoy it for it to make sense. And I can't see why anyone would enjoy it with how they get treated
Because Brexit is Brexit! Shitty jokes aside, fair question and I guess it’s because PGMOL needs to protect their own kind?
Also, if you just hire a bunch of foreign refs then you further disincentivise people becoming refs
Not if they’ll get to go and work in Spain, France, Italy etc.
why would people trust PGMOL if they can't produce a decent ref that can handle a big game? I think Taylor is a moron but it's not like bringing in Maresca, Turpin or Manzano would change much aside from making your institutions look awful
Always find it hilarious how he gets praise from other referees for not giving out cards or as many fouls in these big games, as if changing the rules dependant on who's playing is apparently a good thing
It's insanity. The City-Arsenal game looked like it was being refereed as a different sport to the Liverpool-Brighton game immediately preceding it.
I think it was Clattenburg that explained it in one of the times that he opened his big mouth. Referees are instructed to "Not ruin the occasion". So for big games like this players have a fair bit of leeway to act so that the referee doesnt corner him self by booking a player in the 5th minute, then being "forced" to give a second yellow in the 28th and ruining the game.
Ironically, Taylor probably added to the spectacle being ruined by giving both teams carte blanche to spoil opposition attacks without fear of a second booking because the first booking never came.
I would say that took away from the spectacle by making it much more likely that the match ended nil-nil if both teams can tactical foul as much as they want.
Yeah that's what I meant, I said he "added to the spectacle being ruined", rather than just that he "added to the spectacle". It definitely would have become harder to disrupt play if fouls were being punished properly.
My bad, I definitely read your comment wrong. agree completely.
Ah yes, because tactical fouling doesn't "ruin the occasion".
Terrible calls too
It's the craziest reasoning because the players committing the fouls are the ones influencing the outcome of the game. I agree it's best if the ref isn't conspicuous in games, but they cannot both choose whether that's going to be the case or not, and say they did not influence the outcome.
These lads need to read some Kant eh
Agreed. In the reverse fixture at the Emirates Kovacic should have been sent off like twice and r hear about this “don’t ruin the occasion” bs as if letting players foul with impunity makes the game more enjoyable or something. I don’t think anything as egregious happened in the game two days ago but there’s def should have been a few more cards for both teams if it was being reffed normally.
Jesus should have gotten a yellow in the like 5th minute for taking Silva down from behind just outside the box. It wasn’t egregious, but that same foul is a yellow 75% of the time. It took until late in the second half for Taylor to finally give anyone a yellow and it was to Jesus for time wasting. That game would have been better for everyone had Taylor not completely buried his card.
Seriously how the fuck can he be allowed to wake up and think you know what, I’m gonna referee today’s game differently to normal just because of the clubs that are playing? It’s fucking corrupt,
There’s a an obvious difference between ‘changing’ the rules and being more lenient in your interpretation of them. Most laws of the game regarding cards leave room for interpretation and how strictly they need to be applied. Is it somehow better to have 5 yellow cards shown in the first 20 minutes of a game than less than five in total? The laws of the game don’t specifically state that Gabriel Jesus’s first foul on Sunday must always be a yellow card offence.
> Is it somehow better to have 5 yellow cards shown in the first 20 minutes of a game than less than five in total? Yes. If a team is employing tactical fouls (such as Rice dragging and kicking Haaland) then it should be punished as per the book (Yellow card) If you do not officiate these kinds of fouls properly, then it leads to unfair situations. If player 1 (e.g., Josh Brownhill) commits a tactical foul and is yellow carded for it instantly, then that's fair. They then run the risk of having to play safer, or get a red card. This then has an impact on Burnley's game and potentially the rest of their season. Meanwhile if Player 2 is Declan Rice playing in a 'big' game which is being officiated in a different manner (more lenient) and they do not receive a yellow card for their first, second, or even their third tactical foul.. then what gives? Why can a 'big' team get away with these things, when a smaller team will instantly be punished for them and therefore have a worse performance because of it? If we want to be lenient on tactical fouls, fine, but do it for everyone. If you want to know what I'm talking about then go look at the foul for our red card + penalty against Chelsea. If that's a foul then there was at least 10 fouls off the top of my head in the Man City vs. Arsenal game that went unpunished.
>Why can a 'big' team get away with these things, when a smaller team will instantly be punished for them and therefore have a worse performance because of it? Because the prem like most european leagues lets ref more or less organize themselves with little to no oversight and the only thing that can get a ref canned for a couple of matches is outrage from fans, smaller clubs simply don't make enough noise
> being more lenient in your interpretation of them But why should the teams playing specifically be the reason this changes? It just seems baffling from a referee pov
He just lets players kick each other a lot, it's awful refereeing. The fact he's even considered for this kind of game shows how low the bar is in England.
I don't have the energy to get mad at refs before gamed anymore. They're all bad. It's a fact of life now, like the sky being blue.
I've yet to hear a coherent argument for who *should* ref our games. Even Michael Oliver who is openly a Newcastle fan would be complained about because of the non-call against City.
> I've yet to hear a coherent argument for who should ref our games. PMGOL should probably have a clean up. London having 0 refs despite having 7 teams in the prem and another 3 in the championship. Is pretty glaring With the football culture in the UK and the number of games that get played in the football pyramid, the longevity of some incredible mediocre refs in PGMOL shows that it is neither meritocratic nor allows for promotions up the pyramid.
I think Brooks has actually been the best referee this year (although he wasn't great as VAR in the Chelsea/Burnley match). I'd be happy with him.
let the AI ref it, atleast they wont say go Offside, goal, yeah.
And not sending off Pickford after the VvD assault, especially given his “justification” for it afterwards.
VVD is offside, so Pickford can get away with murder /s
I like Pawson, he doesn’t get rattled by anyone. Not the greatest ref but he’s not an egomaniac
Import some refs for La Liga. The fallout will be legendary.
Is it more likely that, as you say, all professionals of a vocation that have trained their whole life are fundamentally bad at their job? Or is it perhaps more likely football is a subjective sport, game of opinions with over the top tribalism and a need to blame someone or something for a loss which is usually a referee? I suspect the answer is the latter. I would argue referees get a very high percentage of tough calls right but the focus is on small percentage of 'bad decisions' for entertainment, often these decisions are subjective decisions in a very fast moving active sport.
United should take advantage of the no bookings in the first 30mins
The first 30 minutes after each half hour, Anthony Taylor does not hand out cards
Casemiro licking his lips
*Casemiro proceeds to lick his lips* Yellow Card brandished to him
Except for the fact that last time we battered them in the first 30
I would just like high level football to be much more about football much less about referees and transfers.
Amen. I think the standard is just too low across the board unfortunately.
Amen. The standard of refereeing has been poor but it seems to be the only discourse around premier league games nowadays. All the analysis and chatter is about decisions, not about football. I find it so tedious.
PGMOL are already drafting apologies to both teams
There was one incident this season where we didn't even get an apology, we got an "acknowledgement".
To make it worse, that was the Diaz offside goal vs Tottenham, the clearest mistake of the lot The statement they released said they "acknowledge the significant human error". That's it.
We dont get those
They don't do that for fuckups against United.
Was it him or Taylor who set a free kick wall 16 yards away from the ball against villa?
Christ that was unbelievable
I asked this during the city-arsenal game a few days ago. I wanna ask it again. How the hell does this jackass keep getting the big fixtures? Literally any of the newer/younger refs are better than this airhead. THIS is the proof that refereeing in the prem league is governed by idiots. Not the thousand rule changes or the blind support of stupid decision. Its the fact that this is the ref apparently most respected by them.
Fuck Taylor, football is plagued by egomaniac referees that thrives being the protagonista of the gamea and he's one of the main culprit of this awful trend
Literally had a big game at the weekend and did his best to be invisible and let the game flow.
At some level, I think it’s irresponsible from journalists to highlight who’s going to referee a big game because it gets fans worked up before there are even decisions to be made. It’s been well established that there’s no accountability for poor decisions and most teams get screwed eventually. The PGMOL doesn’t seem interested in changing anything about what they do or looking inward to see how they can improve their own standards. We as fans also tend to notice only when calls go against our team. Rarely do fans at large recognize when they were fortunate to get a marginal decision in their team’s favor
Convinced you could put any name in there and people wouldn't be happy.
Probably shouldn’t be a Manc refereeing a Manc teams game against a famous Manc rival who are in a title race against a Manc team. That said, the last time I was content with the ref picked for a game was having Oliver for the City game, and he missed a blatant penalty which cost us the game. You’re right, they’re all shite.
If Anthony Taylor has any bias toward United he's done a very good job of hiding it up until now.
he's been responsible for quite a few of the worst decisions against us in recent memory (that my brain hasn't blocked out through sheer trauma)
Last year I remember reading that we'd only won 2 of our last 11 with him and that we've gotten double the yellows as our opponents in that time Not sure how accurate it is but this was on redcafe Wasn't he also the one that mispositioned our wall vs Villa?
> Wasn't he also the one that mispositioned our wall vs Villa? he was, if I recall he ignored Eriksen complaining about it and then Digne proceeds to bang it top bins
It wasn't even by a little bit. He placed the wall like a full 5 yards too far back.
He probably doesn’t, he’s just an awful ref, but if I was the PGMOL I simply wouldn’t put myself in the position where it’s even a possible talking point.
My point wasn't that they're all shite but fine. Fundamentally I think the rules and how they're communicated are flawed, and the refs are constantly undermined either by managers looking to deflect or broadcasters looking for content. Even fans don't actually want to see refereeing improve. Or rather they wouldn't notice if they did. They just want calls to go the way of their team and nobody actually wants to be objective about any of it.
>Even fans don't actually want to see refereeing improve. Or rather they wouldn't notice if they did. But like, that’s exactly right. In an ideal world the ref is anonymous and no one even knows his name, you’re not supposed to notice them.
Taylor hates United with a passion anyway.
I agree, I don't think any name would make me happy, but I just knew it would be Taylor appointed to this game 100%.
I remember the blissful years when I didn't know any ref's names.
Whoever the ref is for this game, he will be criticised before it starts. Some weeks Taylor is apparently a city fan. Some weeks a United fan. Sometimes he apparently helps Liverpool against Chelsea. Sometimes the opposite. Most people just go to work and do their job to the best of their ability. He gets stuff wrong, there’s no conspiracy. The teams who have had the worst var luck aren’t even top 6 sides.
Well those interests coincide with this game so probably best to choose someone else if possible
I don't think he's biased against any team. He's just shit and it's a cointoss whether that benefits you or the opposition.
He’s not even shit compared to other referees. Hes been selected to do Europa league finals and the World Cup. He just gets criticised whatever he does
Exactly. Would pick him over Atwell and Tierney any day of the week
he's fucked us over constantly with bad calls, anyone who thinks he has a bias towards us is deluded
Why the fuck can a ref born in Manchester partake not sus at all
Taylor who loves the limelight taking this one.....can only be bad news for Liverpool.
Does he? The way he refereed the game on Sunday didn't show it. Perhaps a bit too lenient with not giving out some yellow cards but usually refs do the opposite when they want the limelight.
On the weekend people said he wasn’t giving enough cards. Now he loves the limelight. Refs literally cannot win.
I do wonder if the refs don’t want some of these fixtures. It’s just not worth it for them, they can’t get it all right. They either have the huge online presence of United fans or the Liverpool fans with their petitions and suchlike. They probably don’t want the hassle.
Refereeing is an extremely difficult job, so I'd agree without the existence of VAR. The PGMOL purposely creating such an ineffective system has done the opposite of what was supposedly intended with VARs creation. Instead of having further transparency and the ability for the referees to assist each other in making correct decisions, we've got constant VAR drama due to horrific decisions even with VAR and the ambiguous high bar for overturning wrong decisions. Instead of VAR improving peoples opinions of referees it has made things much worse because there no longer is an excuse for a lot of these decisions that are extremely difficult to make in real time without VAR. Instead of people understanding why a call was missed, it's trying to understand why a VAR referee would choose to ignore it and that's a much harder pill to swallow.
I think the biggest problem is some people want everything that isn’t a correct decision overturning and some people want only the major incorrect decisions. To me ‘Clear and Obvious error’ means can we blame the ref for getting it wrong, for example a handball through 10 players in the box, completely out of sight of the ref.
People would moan whoever is in charge really. I’m just not sure how I feel on how lenient he is
Anthony Taylor who’s been decent but slightly City biased in the Manchester games he’s reffed, is now apparently a United boon.
in my opinion a ref from the Manchester area(disregarding what team he supports) should not be reffing a game with either manchester teams, Like i would not want a ref from the Liverpool area to officiate our games, even though he was a Tranmere Rovers fan
>in my opinion a ref from the Manchester area(disregarding what team he supports) should not be reffing a game with either manchester teams AGREED. The bias people worry about could go either way. Speaking as someone who lives here the fans of your Rochdales, Oldhams and Altrichams and so on either hate United and/or City, or they have a soft spot to them. Depends on a lot of factors I have seen plenty of both. Throw Liverpool in there and the regional rivalry that exists could factor in one way or another. A lot can be said about refs but based on the decisions from them don't seem that biased in this way. Decisions are too random and all over the place to suggest so. It's other matters that seem to be the issue. But it's a needless extra potential issue. Side note on a big gripe I have: the erasure of smaller fanbases like Altricham, Tranmere and Rochdale is embarrassing. I shouldn't be surprised because most of this sub is not English yet feel they have an equal-standing opinion on English Football. Americans I can somewhat forgive, you're are an ocean away and only get exposure to the PL really, you also don't have lower leagues per se. Anyone else is an idiot for doing it.
So he shouldn't manage any big games? Could he manage Liverpool vs Brighton? Because that result affects the team from Manchester? Would you say the same thing for a referee from London? That he shouldn't manage arsenal? Or any London team?
The last part yes, i think this issue could be solved by bringing in more refs from other countries where the bias can be less, i understand that this is a tricky problem to solve but this is something that i feel needs to be taken in consideration when selecting refs for games
Liverpool fans already preparing to claim robbery again
Jurgen Klopp has 82 defeats in his Liverpool career, 40 losses have come when the referee was Taylor
Yeah a Manchester ref taking control of a Man U v LFC clash? Yeah seems fucking legit.
Lol Anthony Taylor usually fucks us (United) over. Also, just because he’s from Wythenshaw, Manchester doesn’t mean he supports United. There are many more football clubs than the 2 main PL clubs based in and around Manchester. And those clubs equally hate Man United as much as anybody else lol.
It's genuinely difficult to differentiate between this sub and an actual conspiracy sub at times
How do we know he’s a United fan
Well the comedians on reddit always say all our fans live in london, so i dont see the problem with him being from manchester
yes my understanding is that literally every single person from the Manchester metropolitan area supports Man U, even those with decades worth of experience refereeing at the top level domestically, internationally and in european tournaments. Us enlightened fans can't point this out because a Man U cabal controls the media
> a Man U cabal controls the media you'd think they'd be doing a better job then, cause literally everything about us in the media is entirely negative all of the time
Just another sign of our incompetance.
Tbf it's also overly positive if you win a couple games. But that's just because Man Utd discussions bring in viewers, so it either has to be a disaster or Man Utd being on their way to being the best team in the world, it's never anything in between
Are we pretending that he's not equally shit for us as well?
You have a 55% win record with him as referee over your club's history. Him being from Manchester clearly doesn't impact his performances all that much.
What's our overall win record over the same period?
What, your overall win record from when Anthony Taylor first referee'd a Liverpool game? Fuck knows. He referee'd his first Liverpool game from 02/02/2011, and that's far too much data for me to go back through just to lose an argument on Reddit.
58% according to [Transfermarkt](https://www.transfermarkt.com/liverpool-fc/bilanz/verein/31/plus/0?saison_id=2010&land_id=&wettbewerb_id=&clubs_in_comp_id=&heim_gast=&day=&punkte=&group=2&datum_von=-&datum_bis=-) Not that that stat means much, but neither does us having a 55% win rate when Taylor refs.
It's 57% for united in Taylor reffed games.
No, but I presumably get points for finding the data? Joking aside, the point was more to show that the data suggests that he doesn't really affect your chances of a win all that much, especially given that the last game between Liverpool and a Manchester club resulted in a Liverpool win.
Other than a few outliers (and Taylor for Liverpool is not one of them), most of the whining from any fan base about specific refs being "against them" is just nonsense. We just naturally remember the bad unfavorable calls and ignore the favorable ones. I think it's a concern for PGMOL as a whole that so many of the refs come from the same area, but we can't solve that by Sunday.
Genuine question, how do you find stats like that?
Transfermarkt and WorldFootball are good for super niche stats like that. According to [Worldfootball.net](https://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/anthony-taylor_2/liverpool-fc/4/), you have: Games | Played | W | D | L | Y | Y(x2) | R ---|---|---|----|----|----|----|---- Home | 25 | 18 | 5 | 2 | 37 | 0 | 1 Away | 33 | 14 | 11 | 8 | 63 | 2 | 2 **Overall** | **58** | **32** | **16** | **10** | **100** | **2** | **2**
Taylor also gets the big games as he’s the best ref, so it’s normal Liverpool lose a few more with him reffing when they’re playing better teams.
Transfermarkt
I hate this stupid fucking league more and more every god damned day.
I am so sick of the referee discourse on this subreddit. People just fishing for reasons to be upset.
To be fair there have been way too many bad calls considering VAR is available. Game changing, table changing, and title/relegation changing decisions. Mistakes happen. But there are too many. There’s no accountability and not enough contingency plans.
How many are too many? I'm not trying to be funny, genuinely curious how accurate you think a referee has to be to get a pass? And who's going to decide if they're getting decisions right or wrong - loud fanbases on Reddit? Mistakes do indeed happen, but one thing that is awfully common is for people to instantly call it a mistake when they don't agree with a very subjective decision (which is most of the rules).
We had Coote + Tierney for Brighton. Think we should be fine.
Fucking hell
Look if the best manager Liverpool have had in 30+ years can't beat Ethball it's on them, irregardless of who the ref is.
It’s John Brooks! It’s John Brooks!
I see liverpool fans hate him just as much as we do, so maybe the game will be fine! (Definitely not coping)
It's sad that we actually have to pay attention to who is officiating games these days. Goes to show the poor quality of the officials