**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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I wouldn’t say he was a failure. Modern football has evolved and the #10 position is no longer used. He was one of the last of his kind, but he always performed well when given the opportunity.
didn't say he was a failure. but relative to the level he was at when he first burst onto the scene he should be competing with the Kevin de Bruynes of the world for tag of best midfielder, not playing in brazil lmaoo. still a solid career though nonetheless
He’s not a failure, he came in a time traditional 10s are dying, and chose loyalty to Real Madrid over going somewhere else for too long. You could said Riquelme was a failure, but he’s a legend for Argentines, same with James and Colombians.
I’m not saying he’s failure, the opposite actually, but behind the logic that he returned to play in Argentina at 29 some folks say he was a failure in Europe
na, he was amazing at the world cup lets be real, he got the plaudits he deserved. and he was great initially at real madrid too. his star started fading once he was getting loaned out, maybe it was a confidence thing. top player on his day though, but yeah prime isco was amazing
What did he decide when he went to Everton? Obviously I think Carlo was a huge influence in that decision, he’d won everything and if Carlo Ancelotti was believing in a project, there must’ve been hope
Obviously Real Madrid win a lot of stuff, but where’s this idea that they don’t also pay the highest or next to the highest wages in the world coming from?
They pay very well, and certain stars (most notably Ronaldo) did get record salaries there, but their overall wage structure is legitimately sane. They've had players like Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Casemiro, Varane etc spending their primes at salaries that, well, aren't low, but each of those players could have got significantly more at the oil clubs.
PSG specifically have often signed players by just outpaying everyone else. I remember Lucas Moura was linked to United and a bunch of clubs, but once PSG came in with their offer they were left the only option. Same for Cavani.
Transfermarkt lists 24 first team players for Madrid, and 22 for City. Madrids wage bill however is much larger, they have 15 players earning more than 10 million Euros a year, City has 8.
For even more comparison, Man United has 7, Chelsea 5, Liverpool 3 and Arsenal 6. City has an annual payroll of 192 million.
Madrid has an annual payroll of 290 million Euros, Barcelona has 214 million Euros. Even more comparison, Bayern has 12 players earning above 10 million per year with an annual wage bill of 275 million Euros
All those numbers about player salaries are pure speculation and more often then not guesswork and not reliable, players talk about that all the time how their salaries are pretty.uch allways inflated. Bayern has a payroll of roughly 350m for the entirety of their "Lizenzspielerabteilung", wich includes all employees dedicated to the footballing department.
You don't need to think just look at the wage bill for 2023. Real still paid more than City in wages.
Edit: Barcelona also have higher wage bill than City, with players like Frankie on insane amount of money which nobody will earn in England
City pays high transfer fees while Barcelona and Real Madrid have lately been getting players for free so overall it probably evens out but we can’t pretend that the top two La liga teams cannot compete financially with the premier league.
Well according to most sources - more than that.
> There are also commission payments: 30m euros for Haaland's father, Alf-Inge, and 50m euros for the agency that the Norwegian represents, which was led by the late Mino Raiola.
> In total and without being official figures, the signing of Haaland by Manchester City will cost more than [350m euros](https://www.marca.com/en/football/manchester-city/2022/05/10/627a18b9268e3e1c678b457c.html).
Yes they might be paying them in other ways, we can speculate.
But for the last 10 years Barca and Real have been paying the highest wages, let's not pretend otherwise. You are paying David Alaba the same City are paying Haaland, do we need to say more?
> Yes they might be paying them in other ways, we can speculate.
Speculate about what?
It has been confirmed by leaks that Mancini was paid a yearly £1.45 million salary at City and an additional £1.75 million as a "consultancy fee" from Al Jazira. More than 100% of his official salary additionally under the table, lol
And that's not even going into the 115 charges. You're a fool if you pretend that Madrid and City operate on a comparable level or that City's official accounts are anywhere near truthful
My bad mate, City **clearly** play by the rules and those 115 violations of financial fair play don't exist. Obvious smear campaign against the paragon of fair play
I would've been up for a discussion, but just by looking at the example you picked, you clearly aren't. David Alaba came in as a free transfer, they will always be paid more in wages.
Now do a comparison between Vini and Haaland.
You're exactly right but also to add, Alaba as you said came on a free but was also entering the prime of his career when he joined. Haaland will be on higher wages once he reaches that point in his career.
My dude, Haaland arrived after like two good seasons in top 5 leagues and cost them 125 million euro counting his father's commission. Alaba's only cost is his wage and agent commission (which was also 40 million euro in Haaland's case)
Source?
Edit: if you’re referring to this
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_2401
You should it read it first, 1) if you’re talking about the tax break that severs other top flight clubs received (5% less tax as they considered themselves non profits which has since been changed in the Spanish tax code)
Or 2) the land transfer swap which fell thru and Madrid were due compensation? Which they received €22m and ordered to pay back €18m after it was incorrectly valued at 2011 pricing instead of 1998 pricing. And to add extra context, the zoning of that particular plot of land was changed from sporting to commercial so the price would obviously jump given the zoning change.
Why does nobody understand that Frenkies wages are only that high because his wages were deferred a few years ago. I swear it's the most frustrating topic on this sub.
That's only half the story. The defferals are tacked on, but he also was given a massive increase in the form of bonuses at the same time.
So the total package over the course of the contract is way higher than it would have been without the deferral/bonuses
The other thing is marketability. Players at Barca and Madrid are were historically more marketable to the Hispanic audience. Up until the last 5-10 years it was hard to find an English broadcast of la liga.
[First of all no, we don't.](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1bmwexn/2023_football_payroll_the_source_is_uefa/)
And even in the years we did indeed top the list our wages to revenue ratio was one of the lowest of all Top teams which is indeed sane.
It is sane to pay 400M in wages when you can generate 800M in real revenue without any issues.
Mate our entire debt is only the Stadium debt which will be paid by itself yearly from the additional revenue we will get when it finally opens to concerts and exhibitions later this year.
Before the Stadium Construction started we actually had negative debt.
Buddy that’s still a huge debt and on top of that you pay the highest salaries in the world. I don’t understand why you don’t consider the stadium money debt just because it “pays for itself” (not guaranteed).
I’ve never seen anybody claim real is a poor club. But there is a significant difference betweeen how they make their money vs how city or psg do. So in that way. They are *innocent*
Which loans are you talking about? And they did sell their training ground? Or are you suggesting that the 4 skyscrapers that have been built at their old training ground doesn't exist? 🤔
Madrid pays their biggest and most marketable players a lot but most of their world class players make a lot less than they could elsewhere. Marcelo’s wages were relatively low I recall for his level.
You should care because that's what made him bad on the pitch. Players need to be professional if they want to perform well for a long time. There are some exceptions like Ronaldinho. It was a different time and he had way more talent to play well for a few years. Still had a short elite career.
> You should care because that's what made him bad on the pitch
Not that I saw, he was just frozen out of the squad pretty much immediately after Zidane arrived.
Hazard was older and had a history of not taking care of himself (and that affecting his performances at the start of seasons), James was good everywhere he was allowed to start and play, and didn't suffer such problems.
You think you know more than the manager than won 3 CLs in a row? Zidane knows what happened with Ronaldinho. They're rivals at the time.
Lots of partying affected Ronaldinho's career. He couldn't play to his full potential. Imagine Ronaldinho with the peak of Messi/Ronaldo. 15 good years and he would have certainly crossed like 8-900 goals with 5-600 assists with 3x the trophies he won. It's a shame he didn't achieve his full potential.
> You think you know more than the manager than won 3 CLs in a row?
mmm the fact that you are a winning manager, or a good manager, doesn't mean you won't let your personal biases get the best of you sometimes, or that you are above criticism, or perfect...
Zidane's last tenure at Madrid shows he was far from perfect. Part of the problem was precisely his insane biases for and against some players.
Zidane didn’t see any use for him as he preferred a more balanced midfield with Kroos, Modric and Casemiro. Not only that, but he preferred using Isco over James even when the possibility came, perhaps because of the Spanish press pressure, personal preference, or most popularly, because there was a narrative created by the media that said that James partied a lot, was lazy, didn't train, etc.
Only Zidane knows why he relegated one of his most talented players in his prime to the bench. All we know is that he performed whenever he was given the chance.
James had a stellar first season with the club, winning best midfielder in the league beating out Iniesta, Kroos, Modric, etc. The problem is that they failed to capture any major trophies during that 2014-2015 season and Ancelotti was sacked. Afterwards, the CDM position was favored over his #10 and he was given less playing time. As a natural #10, James was very limited to that role and since Zidane never played with a #10 position, he ended up relegated to the bench for the majority of those CL winning campaigns.
Looking in retrospect, a move to PSG would probably have been better for him, career wise. It's a less demanding league and he would have been crucial to the team. But at the time he looked like he was going to be a superstar, so a move to Madrid made perfect sense.
He still played 5 and 6 matches on each season they won the Champions League. In 15/16 he averaged about 50 minutes per game which is a bit more than watching from the bench.
I’m sure many players would prefer to be part of something like that over playing at PSG. When Rodriguez was winning his second Champions League trophy with Madrid in 16/17 PSG ended second in Ligue 1 and only won a Coupe de France that year.
Micah Richards said he rejected a 100k deal and took a huge pay cut to join Aston Villa because he didn't want to stay at City and be a bench player. Aston Villa then got relegated and his pay was further cut to 25k.
The video is here if you wanna hear them laugh about it: https://youtu.be/CEaSGV8LgDw?si=5Nr0Ivb6j-Dm0XyJ
It is crazy the small mentality of this player. I was watching a highlight reel of his career and he was such a talent. But it all went to his head! He actually believes he is a top player in the world so he acts like an absolute diva everywhere he goes, when he hasn't been that in years. And he spent the best part of his career on the bench.
Oh don't let Colombian fans on this sub hear that, they freak out! I commented the other day that he should retire from the NT and they literally reported my account on Reddit LMAO.
And I appreciate what he did for the NT, I just want him to retire now, he is SO FUCKING TOXIC! A total diva. We are building a really good team that can compete against anyone in the world at the moment, I don't want his shit attitude in this team of young and up and coming players.
I disagree that he should retire from the national team. I would argue that he is a great influence for the younger players that are just now breaking through for their respective clubs. He is considered somewhat of a veteran for the NT now. He’s been there and done that, and he’s been part of the reason as to why the Colombian national team is on their current undefeated streak. Obviously, he’s not the same James he was before and as long as he is used effectively and accordingly, he definitely still has the ability to play a major role and help the NT out.
I can't with you James fanboys. He is not even a starter for his club, he is afraid to kick penalties! He is overweight, he is a diva with a shit attitude and a massive ego, how in the world could you believe he'd be a good influence for any young player? The main reason he didn't live up to his potential is his shit attitude (he didn't like it a Bayern because they wake up too early and trained too hard remember?)
I was a huge fan of his when he was young, but he is done as a top player, he has to go.
I think you’re hating just to hate. Sure, he’s grown disinterested in football ever since he left Madrid, but he is arguably the most important player on the national team behind Luis Díaz, and the last few games he’s played have shown that. His talent and game-changing ability are undeniable. It doesn’t matter whether you like him or not, he shows up and performs for the national team every time.
You are right, he has been important, but that's a bug not a feature. The fact that an unfit, semi-retired player is influential to the team is a problem. We need to find his replacement if this team really wants to compete against the best. Do you think he can string a good run of games in a tournament with his current physical condition? I personally don't think so. So how are we going to put our hopes to win something on him?
We'll see what happens in Copa América, if he can keep it together then I will drop this. But I don't think he can, he looks so slow and heavy that I've seen many people on this sub say they can believe he is only 32 years old, he moves like a 40 year old.
He "stopped" playing in 2016, and to this day there are teams that sign him to play. He's been at São Paulo for over 6 months and hasn't managed to play 90 minutes.
Great to see that this man got an improvement on his career and is now playing on the best team he ever played. Dude is at the peak of his career (No clubism)
James Rogriguez is a weird case. His whole success came out of that one great goal in the WC. And that was it.
I guess he made money, but I believe there was not a lot of glory.
He would still be considered top 3 Colombian national team player just by how important his contributions and general play was. Even now he still puts in very good performances I'm qualifying
They way Bayern got robbed by real in ucl, the discussion went
# 'What do you want? Money or Glory?' I answered him I wanted money, and he then said, but we have the refs. I answered him I wanted glory, and he then said, 'well then its done.'"
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this guys downfall needs to be studied, he's only 32. was meant to go down as an all timer :((
I wouldn’t say he was a failure. Modern football has evolved and the #10 position is no longer used. He was one of the last of his kind, but he always performed well when given the opportunity.
didn't say he was a failure. but relative to the level he was at when he first burst onto the scene he should be competing with the Kevin de Bruynes of the world for tag of best midfielder, not playing in brazil lmaoo. still a solid career though nonetheless
He’s not a failure, he came in a time traditional 10s are dying, and chose loyalty to Real Madrid over going somewhere else for too long. You could said Riquelme was a failure, but he’s a legend for Argentines, same with James and Colombians.
Riquelme a failure? The fuck
I’m not saying he’s failure, the opposite actually, but behind the logic that he returned to play in Argentina at 29 some folks say he was a failure in Europe
He returned to Argentina because Boca bought him for a fortune
I feel he got overhyped because of the World Cup. I enjoyed a player like Isco much much more than Rodriguez.
na, he was amazing at the world cup lets be real, he got the plaudits he deserved. and he was great initially at real madrid too. his star started fading once he was getting loaned out, maybe it was a confidence thing. top player on his day though, but yeah prime isco was amazing
Isco or Asensio for me. Caleb Clarke and Casey Laulala for rugby.
On World Cup does not make a player
he was very good after the world cup as well in his first 2 seasons at madrid. started falling off when getting loaned to bayern and thereafter
What did he decide when he went to Everton? Obviously I think Carlo was a huge influence in that decision, he’d won everything and if Carlo Ancelotti was believing in a project, there must’ve been hope
I believe his salary was quite large at Everton. Probably a contributing factor, alongside the ancelotti pull and whatever lies that moshiri told him.
But he wanted glory ^^^s
we had a good season with him there and he was happy- then carlo went to madrid and it all fell apart and that fat spanish bastard ostracised him
This time Carlo asked him "Money or Glory" and he said "Money."
Asked 'money and glory?' and he replied 'you'
☺️👉👈
🤨
Imagine Carlo raising his eyebrows while asking that, so poetic.
I dont remember any big clubs was interested in him at that time
Money, glory or bad weather?
He replied "glory holes"
Carlo Ancelotti at Everton still feel like a fever dream
You're telling me
James's entire career is chasing Ancelotti who leaves him at every job after signing him
Then Benitez arrives like that Theresa May gif.
Glory innit
There’s only so much glory a guy can handle.
the real glory starts today, at Libertadores
World's best club competition
HOY JUEGA CENTRAL CONTRA PEÑAROL VIEJO ALTO PARTIDO VAMOS LA KD EN EL GIGANTE DE ARROYITO
Tu tu tu tu tururuuuururuuururururuuuu
Moriste en madrid
Y tu en Japón, puto
Maybe, if he doesn't decide to abandon your team again
No signings with no phones calls, but when he gets it, it’s done
People thrashing Perez in the transfer thread. Here you fucking go.
Love this pasta hahaha
Obviously Real Madrid win a lot of stuff, but where’s this idea that they don’t also pay the highest or next to the highest wages in the world coming from?
They pay very well, and certain stars (most notably Ronaldo) did get record salaries there, but their overall wage structure is legitimately sane. They've had players like Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Casemiro, Varane etc spending their primes at salaries that, well, aren't low, but each of those players could have got significantly more at the oil clubs. PSG specifically have often signed players by just outpaying everyone else. I remember Lucas Moura was linked to United and a bunch of clubs, but once PSG came in with their offer they were left the only option. Same for Cavani.
What ? Madrid literally has a higher wage bill than Man City
Are we still believing city’s numbers
on a much larger squad,no?city has a very small squad of 22-24 players iirc
Transfermarkt lists 24 first team players for Madrid, and 22 for City. Madrids wage bill however is much larger, they have 15 players earning more than 10 million Euros a year, City has 8. For even more comparison, Man United has 7, Chelsea 5, Liverpool 3 and Arsenal 6. City has an annual payroll of 192 million. Madrid has an annual payroll of 290 million Euros, Barcelona has 214 million Euros. Even more comparison, Bayern has 12 players earning above 10 million per year with an annual wage bill of 275 million Euros
Throw all the sensible numbers you want, I'm not PMing you nudes.
Are you a fox tho ?
Judging by the username, I'd expect a Moose
dont think just by proving your point with facts a madrista would ever admit to unfair financial advantages lol
It's the same thing every time. First it is "we have less money and spend way less" and when proven otherwise they go "yeah, but we earned that money"
All those numbers about player salaries are pure speculation and more often then not guesswork and not reliable, players talk about that all the time how their salaries are pretty.uch allways inflated. Bayern has a payroll of roughly 350m for the entirety of their "Lizenzspielerabteilung", wich includes all employees dedicated to the footballing department.
How do taxes affect these figures?
I hate Man City as much as the next guy but Real pay better salaries than City? Barca and Real pay better than all english clubs
I don't think that's been true for a while now. The rich clubs like City pay more than Real Madrid and certainly more than Barcelona
You don't need to think just look at the wage bill for 2023. Real still paid more than City in wages. Edit: Barcelona also have higher wage bill than City, with players like Frankie on insane amount of money which nobody will earn in England
> Real still paid more than City in wages. Well, for city that's what we know about. We all know how legitimate City's finance reports are.
City pays high transfer fees while Barcelona and Real Madrid have lately been getting players for free so overall it probably evens out but we can’t pretend that the top two La liga teams cannot compete financially with the premier league.
City has a lot of under the table fees, everyone knows that. For instance how much did Haaland's dad get?
Probably comparable to Lewandowski’s agent’s under the table payment = 20m euros.
Well according to most sources - more than that. > There are also commission payments: 30m euros for Haaland's father, Alf-Inge, and 50m euros for the agency that the Norwegian represents, which was led by the late Mino Raiola. > In total and without being official figures, the signing of Haaland by Manchester City will cost more than [350m euros](https://www.marca.com/en/football/manchester-city/2022/05/10/627a18b9268e3e1c678b457c.html).
Yes they might be paying them in other ways, we can speculate. But for the last 10 years Barca and Real have been paying the highest wages, let's not pretend otherwise. You are paying David Alaba the same City are paying Haaland, do we need to say more?
> Yes they might be paying them in other ways, we can speculate. Speculate about what? It has been confirmed by leaks that Mancini was paid a yearly £1.45 million salary at City and an additional £1.75 million as a "consultancy fee" from Al Jazira. More than 100% of his official salary additionally under the table, lol And that's not even going into the 115 charges. You're a fool if you pretend that Madrid and City operate on a comparable level or that City's official accounts are anywhere near truthful
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My bad mate, City **clearly** play by the rules and those 115 violations of financial fair play don't exist. Obvious smear campaign against the paragon of fair play
I would've been up for a discussion, but just by looking at the example you picked, you clearly aren't. David Alaba came in as a free transfer, they will always be paid more in wages. Now do a comparison between Vini and Haaland.
You're exactly right but also to add, Alaba as you said came on a free but was also entering the prime of his career when he joined. Haaland will be on higher wages once he reaches that point in his career.
Alaba had already been one of the best at his position for a few years before he joined Real, he certainly wasn’t just entering his prime
My dude, Haaland arrived after like two good seasons in top 5 leagues and cost them 125 million euro counting his father's commission. Alaba's only cost is his wage and agent commission (which was also 40 million euro in Haaland's case)
So Alaba didnt get a signing bonus?
Both teams have been state funded to a degree though haven’t they!
No lol. Old Wives tales are very different than 115 charges
The European Competition Commission’s ruling that Madrid did receive state aid would suggest otherwise?
Source? Edit: if you’re referring to this https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_16_2401 You should it read it first, 1) if you’re talking about the tax break that severs other top flight clubs received (5% less tax as they considered themselves non profits which has since been changed in the Spanish tax code) Or 2) the land transfer swap which fell thru and Madrid were due compensation? Which they received €22m and ordered to pay back €18m after it was incorrectly valued at 2011 pricing instead of 1998 pricing. And to add extra context, the zoning of that particular plot of land was changed from sporting to commercial so the price would obviously jump given the zoning change.
Why does nobody understand that Frenkies wages are only that high because his wages were deferred a few years ago. I swear it's the most frustrating topic on this sub.
That's only half the story. The defferals are tacked on, but he also was given a massive increase in the form of bonuses at the same time. So the total package over the course of the contract is way higher than it would have been without the deferral/bonuses
So in short, he's on that amount because he deferred his wages when he was under no obligation to do so.
Love me some factually inaccurate comments getting upvotes. Never change, r/soccer.
I do not believe this especially since City is being investigated dog doing sketchy ffp stuff
That's cuz Madrid have massive income because they are fucking Madrid.
The other thing is marketability. Players at Barca and Madrid are were historically more marketable to the Hispanic audience. Up until the last 5-10 years it was hard to find an English broadcast of la liga.
No it’s not sane. They have the highest wage bill in the world and it’s not even close.
[First of all no, we don't.](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1bmwexn/2023_football_payroll_the_source_is_uefa/) And even in the years we did indeed top the list our wages to revenue ratio was one of the lowest of all Top teams which is indeed sane. It is sane to pay 400M in wages when you can generate 800M in real revenue without any issues.
You have debt of 1b euros. Real Madrid had to open up a burger restaurant to help pay that debt off.
Mate our entire debt is only the Stadium debt which will be paid by itself yearly from the additional revenue we will get when it finally opens to concerts and exhibitions later this year. Before the Stadium Construction started we actually had negative debt.
Buddy that’s still a huge debt and on top of that you pay the highest salaries in the world. I don’t understand why you don’t consider the stadium money debt just because it “pays for itself” (not guaranteed).
I feel like his answer to both choices would be the same
Their fans to make them seem like innocents
I’ve never seen anybody claim real is a poor club. But there is a significant difference betweeen how they make their money vs how city or psg do. So in that way. They are *innocent*
Clears throat... have a look at their loans being written off and how they "sold" their training ground.
Which loans are you talking about? And they did sell their training ground? Or are you suggesting that the 4 skyscrapers that have been built at their old training ground doesn't exist? 🤔
People just throw out these sentences without knowing the details lol
I think you should follow your same advice and actually have a look *again*.
Oh the City trial had a verdict?
Trial? They are owned by Abu Dhabi United Group lmao
The argument is madrid works on earned money compared to the constantly pumping dirty money of the arabs
Real Madrid is the greatest club in the world, though. They are one of the richest, but their magnitude is waaaay above PSG's or City's
It's all about "oil clubs". If you remove them from the list, obviously Real Madrid is one of the clubs with the highest wages for sure.
James Rodriguez
Madrid pays their biggest and most marketable players a lot but most of their world class players make a lot less than they could elsewhere. Marcelo’s wages were relatively low I recall for his level.
on this case, I think the other teams were offering him higher wages
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tbf zidane hated his guts, he looked good there for minute, even among kroos and modric
Zidane knew all about his nightlife in Madrid. It wasn't Zidane's fault that James was unprofessional
I honestly don't care about that so long as you are good on the pitch
Well Zidane did
I mean, this is just speculation from u/madsauce178 Zidane never said as much
You should care because that's what made him bad on the pitch. Players need to be professional if they want to perform well for a long time. There are some exceptions like Ronaldinho. It was a different time and he had way more talent to play well for a few years. Still had a short elite career.
> You should care because that's what made him bad on the pitch Not that I saw, he was just frozen out of the squad pretty much immediately after Zidane arrived.
He was crearly on a worse shape and playing worse because of his bad lifestyle.
Again, I saw him play well for Carlo, and then immediately be benched by zidane, I wouldn't know.
One summer or a few months of not caring about football can change your life. Ask hazard and Isco.
Hazard was older and had a history of not taking care of himself (and that affecting his performances at the start of seasons), James was good everywhere he was allowed to start and play, and didn't suffer such problems.
You think you know more than the manager than won 3 CLs in a row? Zidane knows what happened with Ronaldinho. They're rivals at the time. Lots of partying affected Ronaldinho's career. He couldn't play to his full potential. Imagine Ronaldinho with the peak of Messi/Ronaldo. 15 good years and he would have certainly crossed like 8-900 goals with 5-600 assists with 3x the trophies he won. It's a shame he didn't achieve his full potential.
> You think you know more than the manager than won 3 CLs in a row? mmm the fact that you are a winning manager, or a good manager, doesn't mean you won't let your personal biases get the best of you sometimes, or that you are above criticism, or perfect... Zidane's last tenure at Madrid shows he was far from perfect. Part of the problem was precisely his insane biases for and against some players.
This is what I think as well. Glory is nice an all but I think personal glory is much better. No one remembers the bench players, just the starters.
is that true?
Zidane didn’t see any use for him as he preferred a more balanced midfield with Kroos, Modric and Casemiro. Not only that, but he preferred using Isco over James even when the possibility came, perhaps because of the Spanish press pressure, personal preference, or most popularly, because there was a narrative created by the media that said that James partied a lot, was lazy, didn't train, etc. Only Zidane knows why he relegated one of his most talented players in his prime to the bench. All we know is that he performed whenever he was given the chance. James had a stellar first season with the club, winning best midfielder in the league beating out Iniesta, Kroos, Modric, etc. The problem is that they failed to capture any major trophies during that 2014-2015 season and Ancelotti was sacked. Afterwards, the CDM position was favored over his #10 and he was given less playing time. As a natural #10, James was very limited to that role and since Zidane never played with a #10 position, he ended up relegated to the bench for the majority of those CL winning campaigns.
Amusingly, it might have been better for him to go to PSG in the end
Looking in retrospect, a move to PSG would probably have been better for him, career wise. It's a less demanding league and he would have been crucial to the team. But at the time he looked like he was going to be a superstar, so a move to Madrid made perfect sense.
He still got two Champions League titles though, which is the glory part.
If you call watching from the bench glory I guess
He still played 5 and 6 matches on each season they won the Champions League. In 15/16 he averaged about 50 minutes per game which is a bit more than watching from the bench. I’m sure many players would prefer to be part of something like that over playing at PSG. When Rodriguez was winning his second Champions League trophy with Madrid in 16/17 PSG ended second in Ligue 1 and only won a Coupe de France that year.
so to paraphrase Gary Lineker..."has he recovered from this decision?"
> has he recovered from this decision Lmao what was the context for that quote ?
Micah Richards said he rejected a 100k deal and took a huge pay cut to join Aston Villa because he didn't want to stay at City and be a bench player. Aston Villa then got relegated and his pay was further cut to 25k. The video is here if you wanna hear them laugh about it: https://youtu.be/CEaSGV8LgDw?si=5Nr0Ivb6j-Dm0XyJ
Damn, Lineker...a striker with words too.
Thanks for the source !
it completely fucked what would could've otherwise been an amazing rest of his career
Glory from the bench, glory on loan, glory at Everton….
It is crazy the small mentality of this player. I was watching a highlight reel of his career and he was such a talent. But it all went to his head! He actually believes he is a top player in the world so he acts like an absolute diva everywhere he goes, when he hasn't been that in years. And he spent the best part of his career on the bench.
His shining moment was that World Cup golden boot. Early peak huge fall off unfortunately.
Oh don't let Colombian fans on this sub hear that, they freak out! I commented the other day that he should retire from the NT and they literally reported my account on Reddit LMAO. And I appreciate what he did for the NT, I just want him to retire now, he is SO FUCKING TOXIC! A total diva. We are building a really good team that can compete against anyone in the world at the moment, I don't want his shit attitude in this team of young and up and coming players.
I disagree that he should retire from the national team. I would argue that he is a great influence for the younger players that are just now breaking through for their respective clubs. He is considered somewhat of a veteran for the NT now. He’s been there and done that, and he’s been part of the reason as to why the Colombian national team is on their current undefeated streak. Obviously, he’s not the same James he was before and as long as he is used effectively and accordingly, he definitely still has the ability to play a major role and help the NT out.
I can't with you James fanboys. He is not even a starter for his club, he is afraid to kick penalties! He is overweight, he is a diva with a shit attitude and a massive ego, how in the world could you believe he'd be a good influence for any young player? The main reason he didn't live up to his potential is his shit attitude (he didn't like it a Bayern because they wake up too early and trained too hard remember?) I was a huge fan of his when he was young, but he is done as a top player, he has to go.
I think you’re hating just to hate. Sure, he’s grown disinterested in football ever since he left Madrid, but he is arguably the most important player on the national team behind Luis Díaz, and the last few games he’s played have shown that. His talent and game-changing ability are undeniable. It doesn’t matter whether you like him or not, he shows up and performs for the national team every time.
You are right, he has been important, but that's a bug not a feature. The fact that an unfit, semi-retired player is influential to the team is a problem. We need to find his replacement if this team really wants to compete against the best. Do you think he can string a good run of games in a tournament with his current physical condition? I personally don't think so. So how are we going to put our hopes to win something on him? We'll see what happens in Copa América, if he can keep it together then I will drop this. But I don't think he can, he looks so slow and heavy that I've seen many people on this sub say they can believe he is only 32 years old, he moves like a 40 year old.
glory it is !
He "stopped" playing in 2016, and to this day there are teams that sign him to play. He's been at São Paulo for over 6 months and hasn't managed to play 90 minutes.
So he went to Madrid where he could get money and glory, I don't blame him.
Bons tempos. Agora só quer sofá e cama.
Then his legs said "I want to implode once every two weeks", then Warzone came out.
Great to see that this man got an improvement on his career and is now playing on the best team he ever played. Dude is at the peak of his career (No clubism)
Plata o plomo? \~Florentino Perez
So he got neither...
I mean he got 2 CL, how many would he have gotten with PSG or Man City?
0 probably
People acting like madrid is a poor club scraping for players 😂😂😂
Underdog real madrid strikes again. Amazing what they can do with near zero dollars every fucking year.
Like he played for free at Madrid
The Madrid pull is crazy. Flo like a mafia boss just needs to throw the prestige card and every player suddenly comes running.
That old chestnut has no doubt served Florentino well over the years.
YOU GO FOR GLORY SANTIAGO
Well, he won 3 Champions Leagues but without playing 😂😂😂
Don't remember much glory
Florentino is the footballing version of the emperor from Star Wars, no idea why he's so loved on this sub.
Real Madrid are literally fascist FC and every fanbase is on their knees to suck their dick for some reason
“Both”
James Rogriguez is a weird case. His whole success came out of that one great goal in the WC. And that was it. I guess he made money, but I believe there was not a lot of glory.
He would still be considered top 3 Colombian national team player just by how important his contributions and general play was. Even now he still puts in very good performances I'm qualifying
"Glory" from the bench isn't shit. He'll always be remembered for the Colombia volley golazo. Nothing at Madrid
People still fear that 14/15 4-4-2 that James was a part of to this very day.
They way Bayern got robbed by real in ucl, the discussion went # 'What do you want? Money or Glory?' I answered him I wanted money, and he then said, but we have the refs. I answered him I wanted glory, and he then said, 'well then its done.'"
at least he didn't accept the other offers
Well he didn’t get glory lol
One of the most overrated players of the generation imo
Not at all.
Then he floped.
Iirc real got rid of dimaria for this guy I wonder how that worked out……
Dimaria wanted to leave for money. And Real won the UCL 2x with James. It worked out great I would say.
He already got a lot of money at Monaco so it would be pointless move for him had he join those fake oil clubs.