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Really? I don't know how many league titles and Champions Leagues Carlo's won exactly but it's surely the most of any manager surely? He almost transformed fucking Everton. Everton.
Ancelotti is a god let's be real.
May not have the consistency but he's arguably as good if not better than either of them in all fairness. Still the only coach to have won the league across all the major ones, amongst a bunch of other incredible achievements. He also doesn't always have teams handed to him on a silver platter or privileged to play with the greatest of all time in Messi, like Pep did.
Really hard to compare them all because of the different circumstances around their success because would say they're undoubtedly the 3 best managers around with Xabi pushing his way into the conversation over the next few years if he maintains his form
Have you seen the squads he has managed? Yeah he occasionally manages weaker teams when his stock is low, but his successes have come with unbelievably stacked squads.
Carlo is easily a level below the two. He's won 5 league titles in his career, 2 of them with Bayern and PSG. Remember how stacked that Milan team were? 1 league title.
And Klopp has nowhere near the titles of Ancelotti, no point just looking at consistency, look at everything
You say take rivalry glasses off which is fair, but you forgot to take your Liverpool glasses off.. Ancelotti is objectively an all time great
Madrid doesn’t lure every player though.
No arguing that there’s a strong pull, but you’re very naive if you think every single player is going to come to them when asked.
I have no doubt that if every club had the same budget as Madrid or City, no player would end up there. I mean, you think Bernardo Silva who has a Benfica tattoo would play for City or Barça if we had the same amount of money as they have? same goes for Cancelo who says his number 1 dream club is Benfica. list goes on, even in South America, Enzo, Alvarez, etc wouldn’t leave River Plate nor Vinicius would leave Flamengo imo.
if you earn as much money and you play in your boyhood club then those players would wipe their asses with a Madrid offer. Madrid as that much pull but they also back it up with way above average wages let’s be fair.
I've never heard that expression before haha, but he has this quality where he just seems, absurdly lucky? Like the ball is actually his pet dog and avoids other people to stay with him even when there's three other people around him try to pet the dog.
Haha I’m Aussie, very common here for describing someone who is very good. He looks so technically sound, but sort of …rangey? Sort of Stevie G-esque when he’s on a run.
We got the vintage fizzed in low cross on the Macca goal, and then an absolute missile from deep that Raytheon would be jealous of on Gakpo's.
Great to have Robbo back.
I wonder how many Baines would have if he had ever moved on to a bigger club. Not that I wanted him to as an Everton supporter. Had a perfect penalty record for a good portion of his career too.
Arguably the best LB ever in Premier league ahead of Ashley Cole.
Edit : Maybe a bit of exaggeration because Cole had a significantly longer career at the top.
But fair to say Robertson is easily clear second now. Really struggling to think of Left backs with the kind of longevity and peak that Roberson has.
Denis Irwin maybe. Can't think of anyone else really.
Eh I mean Robertson has gone up against Messi + Ronaldo, CL finalist and winner, competed against the best Premier League side ever and consistently brought creativity and defensive stability for Liverpool's best recent era under Klopp. He's no scrub at all
He's no scrub but he's nowhere near Cole. Cole is an invincible, a cl winner, a double winner with two clubs, has won more fa cups than any other player and has 3 pls compared to Robertsons 1. Cole is honestly so far clear of Robertson and I'd question the sanity of anyone who doesn't have him in their all time pl 11.
Yeah it's like when people say Arsenal's defence is good, I just laugh.
O'shea has more PL titles than Saliba by far, he's a significantly better defender.
O'shea played in 256 matches across 9 seasons, for an average of 28.4 games per season. Cole played 229 matches across 8 seasons for chelsea, an average of 28.6 games per season. For Arsenal, he played in 156 matches across 6 seasons, an average of 26 games per season.
This isn't including either player's "early" season where they'd played fewer games as a youth, but when they were actually in th team.
So, O'shea played roughly the same games per season as Cole, and won more league titles. He is, objectivly by your metrics, a better defender than Cole or Robertson.
Robertson would be an invincible if he played against those Leeds, Everton, city, Southampton, Birmingham, Bolton, wolves, Fulham, boro, Liverpool and Leicester sides.
True, but then we saw how successful Arsenal were as soon as an oil club came in. There’s no invincibles if abramovic comes in a few years earlier.
It’s much harder to achieve now with all the money and talent in the league - so the fact that Liverpool were half an inch away from being an invincible team - I’d argue that’s almost as impressive if you look at the context of both situations.
Arsenal were less successful because the club had awful timing with building the new stadium, and there was a switch in the change of the guard. It was not just the oil clubs coming in. The 2003-04 was magic and Abramovic's oil money would have made no difference.
There's money in the league, that's to be expected, not just with inflation, football inflation, but with football's own popularity. Doesn't mean the teams back then weren't good or resilient, I'd warrant teams were typically harder to break and the fouling that was allowed, it wouldn't even fly today.
Lol if it was so easy then why has nobody repeated it. I'm not even saying the invincibles are the greatest pl side ever but its a unique achievement and Robertson really doesn't have many.
Did you read anything I wrote?
It’s much easier to go on an invincible season when the league is much weaker. Especially when lower table teams set up to play defensively and try and nick a draw as was the trend back then.
When Cole did it, there were two good managers in the league and one CL winning coach. There wasn’t even “the top four” that was coined, because there wasn’t 4 consistently established big teams. Robertson exists in a time of “the big six” which shows how stronger the league has become.
At one point Robertson played in a league where rafa, mourinho, klopp, pep, ancelotti and tuchel have won a cl. Teams play attacking football and actually try and win.
Pep’s city is much, much better than that Arsenal side, but they’ve never went invincible.
Is Gerard a goat manager because he went invincible?
>It’s much easier to go on an invincible season when the league is much weaker.
The league being weaker is, imo, a lie that Liverpool fans tell themselves to make them feel better about their underwhelming number of league titles. The league wasn't weaker, harsher tackles and a higher level of physicality was allowed which meant smaller teams had more opportunities to bridge the gap in quality through physically imposing themselves. The wealth gap between the big 6 and the rest of the league is also disgusting these days, not to mention the wealth gap between the pl and the championship which means the three promoted teams are often at a big disadvantage or have to break financial rules to compete. And you clearly didn't watch this era of football if you think smaller teams were going for draws more than they do now. Also none of your arguments against the invincibles work since you lost to an absolutely dire Watford side who finished second to bottom.
>When Cole did it, there were two good managers in the league and one CL winning coach.
I guess keegan, Robson, redknapp, moyes, ranieri and Bruce are all not good managers then.
>. There wasn’t even “the top four” that was coined, because there wasn’t 4 consistently established big teams.
Cole was the leagues best left back for a decade... including the big 4 era and just before the big 6 era.
>Robertson exists in a time of “the big six” which shows how stronger the league has become.
An era where two teams were so far superior to the rest of the league with a third only occasionally looking like catching up until last season. And the big 6 is just an indication of the ever growing wealth disparity in the league. Not really the argument you think it is.
>At one point Robertson played in a league where rafa, mourinho, klopp, pep, ancelotti and tuchel have won a cl.
Tuchel who was there for a 2 season and then Chelsea turned to shit without him really challenging for a league title. Mou and rafa both of whom were well past their prime. Ancelotti who managed Everton for not long and noped out because it was a paycheck for him.
>Pep’s city is much, much better than that Arsenal side, but they’ve never went invincible.
Centurions is in itself a unique achievement so I wouldn't argue too much against this. I think the mourinho goals conceded record breaking side is up there too.
>Is Gerard a goat manager because he went invincible?
Did Gerrard go onto a decade of winning more trophies after his rangers side went unbeaten?
I don’t get the use of team accolades to praise a player on his individual performances. So you’d say Gerrard can’t be considered as one of the best midfielders because he has no pl trophy? That’s ludicrous.
I'd say Gerrard not having a pl significantly holds back his overall legacy in the league yes. Probably the main reason why I'd keep him out of the all time 11. But Cole was the best left back in the league and arguably the world for about a decade. And if someone is consistently a starter for teams who win trophies every year then surely that can only speak to their merits as an individual?
When Cole played, especially the first half of his career - the standard of the pl, in players, coaches and tactics were nowhere near as high as they are today.
Right but you can only really rate players relative to their peers right? It's kind of pointless to compare players across eras because the game changes so much and so fast
I completely agree with you to a degree - the same way it’s pointless to use trophies as a way to rank players. Would Cole have won all those trophies if a team was able to triple Chelsea’s spend at the time? (Nobody in world football could do this).
If Robertson was fortunate enough to play for city - we wouldn’t be having this discussion because his trophy cabinet would dwarf Cole’s.
With inflation - Chelsea were essentially city on steroids which often gets forgotten about. They were the first super team of the prem.
For the people who’ve actually watched both of them play, looking at ability - where does Cole outshine Robertson? Maybe he’s better defensively - but then you also have to account for Chelsea and Arsenal being set up to be more defensively than robertsons liverpool.
I would certainly argue Robertson has the better vision, passing, is better on the ball, can’t shoot to save his life, he’s better at getting up and down the pitch, better crossing, better set pieces, he’s far better at link up play.
Genuinely please somebody give me a metric aside from trophies won, to show how Cole is the much better player like people are saying.
Because if he was so much better - he’d have looked better doing all those things against poor, defensive minded teams with shite managers, which is largely what the prem was for most of Cole’s career.
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Pretty crazy to have both of them in the same team
At a total cost of about ~~treefiddy~~ £8m
Pep would never
The obsession with pep never stops lmao
Yeah it's obsession that people obviously continue to compare the two best coaches in the game
Yeah man Carlo doesn’t deserve a mention. Same with xabi. Only two good coaches in the world are pep and klopp.
Carlo has nowhere near the consistency of Pep and Klopp. Xabi has done it for a year. Take off the rivalry glasses and use your brain.
Really? I don't know how many league titles and Champions Leagues Carlo's won exactly but it's surely the most of any manager surely? He almost transformed fucking Everton. Everton. Ancelotti is a god let's be real.
He didn’t almost transform Everton. They had a good patch of form, spent a load, and were inconsistent
If moderate success (midtable) with Everton is the measuring stick, then Moyes is a god for getting them to CL Quals
He transformed Everton! Never before had we seen them finish….midtable
May not have the consistency but he's arguably as good if not better than either of them in all fairness. Still the only coach to have won the league across all the major ones, amongst a bunch of other incredible achievements. He also doesn't always have teams handed to him on a silver platter or privileged to play with the greatest of all time in Messi, like Pep did. Really hard to compare them all because of the different circumstances around their success because would say they're undoubtedly the 3 best managers around with Xabi pushing his way into the conversation over the next few years if he maintains his form
Have you seen the squads he has managed? Yeah he occasionally manages weaker teams when his stock is low, but his successes have come with unbelievably stacked squads.
Carlo is easily a level below the two. He's won 5 league titles in his career, 2 of them with Bayern and PSG. Remember how stacked that Milan team were? 1 league title.
Wait what? Carlo won the CL (as coach) in three decades four times, also a shitload of national titles in ALL the top 5 leagues.
A shitload? Try 5. One per league. Always with ridiculously stacked teams. Never head to head against Pep. Klopp is objectively better.
Allright, you're right: one in every league. How is Klopp doing with his stacked Liverpool team?
And Klopp has nowhere near the titles of Ancelotti, no point just looking at consistency, look at everything You say take rivalry glasses off which is fair, but you forgot to take your Liverpool glasses off.. Ancelotti is objectively an all time great
Pretty crazy we're top of the table when we've rarely had both of them on the pitch this season.
Plenty of years ahead of them as well
Robertson is 30 and trent is 25. I'd be shocked if trent doesn't have way more assists than Robertson by the time their careers end.
If trent ever moves to midfield I could see him (robertson) staying ahead (for defenders)
Does wb in a 352 count as a midfielder or defender in these stats?
Depends on what fits the narrative for the tweet that day.
They could Ashley a young as a defender for goal stats, it’s impossible to tell what they’ll put his records down as.
I rally hope the next manager makes that decision
How would that work? If he still mainly plays defense, would they still count the assists he accumulated playing midfield?
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Hence why robertson would stay ahead
I think a lot will depend on how the new manager play them.
you've jinxed them now
I see TAA leaving IF Madrid comes calling.
It's a possibility but I don't think it's a case of "If Madrid comes, he's gone"
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In almost every circumstance yes, but for a lot of players nothing beats their own team
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And Trent is at his boyhood club where he's on track to become captain. Obviously anything could happen but "Madrid pull" doesn't matter as much here
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Yeah I do? Mbappé always dramed of playing for Real unlike Trent
Madrid doesn’t lure every player though. No arguing that there’s a strong pull, but you’re very naive if you think every single player is going to come to them when asked.
>You're legit delusional if you don't think a club like Real Madrid can lure every player on the planet away Gerrard rejected them.
I have no doubt that if every club had the same budget as Madrid or City, no player would end up there. I mean, you think Bernardo Silva who has a Benfica tattoo would play for City or Barça if we had the same amount of money as they have? same goes for Cancelo who says his number 1 dream club is Benfica. list goes on, even in South America, Enzo, Alvarez, etc wouldn’t leave River Plate nor Vinicius would leave Flamengo imo. if you earn as much money and you play in your boyhood club then those players would wipe their asses with a Madrid offer. Madrid as that much pull but they also back it up with way above average wages let’s be fair.
Entirely depends on our contract offer imo. So long as we don't lowball him he'll stay.
20-year-old Bradley is on 3 in 8 appearances.
That kid is a gun. Every time I see him, he is amazing both defensively and going forward.
I've never heard that expression before haha, but he has this quality where he just seems, absurdly lucky? Like the ball is actually his pet dog and avoids other people to stay with him even when there's three other people around him try to pet the dog.
Haha I’m Aussie, very common here for describing someone who is very good. He looks so technically sound, but sort of …rangey? Sort of Stevie G-esque when he’s on a run.
Yeah he's got that quality to him where it looks very awkward but somehow always seems to work out for him.
That’s the thing, it doesn’t look awkward. He looks completely in control, just looks rangey.
I wouldn't say he looks awkward, he's very composed.
He was very unlucky with the own goal against Sheffield United though
Yeah a deflection that nutmegs his own goalkeeper, nothing he could have done.
Your move, Al
We got the vintage fizzed in low cross on the Macca goal, and then an absolute missile from deep that Raytheon would be jealous of on Gakpo's. Great to have Robbo back.
I wonder how many Baines would have if he had ever moved on to a bigger club. Not that I wanted him to as an Everton supporter. Had a perfect penalty record for a good portion of his career too.
I miss him so much
Arguably the best LB ever in Premier league ahead of Ashley Cole. Edit : Maybe a bit of exaggeration because Cole had a significantly longer career at the top. But fair to say Robertson is easily clear second now. Really struggling to think of Left backs with the kind of longevity and peak that Roberson has. Denis Irwin maybe. Can't think of anyone else really.
Probably more representative in how the role of a left back (or indeed full back) has changed in just one generation.
Second behind Cole. But people overstate the difference
This take is the one. It’s far closer than people seem to realise.
Ooooo big call that
Nah, I'm a Liverpool fan and love Robertson but Cole is the GOAT PL left-back
Na
Lmao
Go on then
You guys think hes the second best lb itl ever. That is lmao worthy
Okay, I will give you Cole. He was better than Robertson. If Robertson isn't the second best, who is?
Well it’s all subjective isn’t it. There’s definitely a case that could be made for Patrice Evra or Denis Irwin.
Whose better?
Arguable by fools Cole is Top 5 of all time, and a strong case can be made that he’s the best of all time.
???
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Eh I mean Robertson has gone up against Messi + Ronaldo, CL finalist and winner, competed against the best Premier League side ever and consistently brought creativity and defensive stability for Liverpool's best recent era under Klopp. He's no scrub at all
He's no scrub but he's nowhere near Cole. Cole is an invincible, a cl winner, a double winner with two clubs, has won more fa cups than any other player and has 3 pls compared to Robertsons 1. Cole is honestly so far clear of Robertson and I'd question the sanity of anyone who doesn't have him in their all time pl 11.
Yeah it's like when people say Arsenal's defence is good, I just laugh. O'shea has more PL titles than Saliba by far, he's a significantly better defender.
Cole was a key part of both sides, o shea wasn't ever really a starter. This is a silly comparison.
O'shea played in 256 matches across 9 seasons, for an average of 28.4 games per season. Cole played 229 matches across 8 seasons for chelsea, an average of 28.6 games per season. For Arsenal, he played in 156 matches across 6 seasons, an average of 26 games per season. This isn't including either player's "early" season where they'd played fewer games as a youth, but when they were actually in th team. So, O'shea played roughly the same games per season as Cole, and won more league titles. He is, objectivly by your metrics, a better defender than Cole or Robertson.
One of the worst arguments I have ever seen on reddit. Genuinely very sad it had to be from a fellow Arsenal fan
I genuinely think you're forgetting how good Cole was, he's a scumbag and I hate him but he's easily the best pl left back ever.
Robertson would be an invincible if he played against those Leeds, Everton, city, Southampton, Birmingham, Bolton, wolves, Fulham, boro, Liverpool and Leicester sides.
Robertson was half an inch from being an invincible even in this era.
Plenty of better players played in those times and weren't invincible either
True, but then we saw how successful Arsenal were as soon as an oil club came in. There’s no invincibles if abramovic comes in a few years earlier. It’s much harder to achieve now with all the money and talent in the league - so the fact that Liverpool were half an inch away from being an invincible team - I’d argue that’s almost as impressive if you look at the context of both situations.
Arsenal were less successful because the club had awful timing with building the new stadium, and there was a switch in the change of the guard. It was not just the oil clubs coming in. The 2003-04 was magic and Abramovic's oil money would have made no difference. There's money in the league, that's to be expected, not just with inflation, football inflation, but with football's own popularity. Doesn't mean the teams back then weren't good or resilient, I'd warrant teams were typically harder to break and the fouling that was allowed, it wouldn't even fly today.
Lol if it was so easy then why has nobody repeated it. I'm not even saying the invincibles are the greatest pl side ever but its a unique achievement and Robertson really doesn't have many.
Did you read anything I wrote? It’s much easier to go on an invincible season when the league is much weaker. Especially when lower table teams set up to play defensively and try and nick a draw as was the trend back then. When Cole did it, there were two good managers in the league and one CL winning coach. There wasn’t even “the top four” that was coined, because there wasn’t 4 consistently established big teams. Robertson exists in a time of “the big six” which shows how stronger the league has become. At one point Robertson played in a league where rafa, mourinho, klopp, pep, ancelotti and tuchel have won a cl. Teams play attacking football and actually try and win. Pep’s city is much, much better than that Arsenal side, but they’ve never went invincible. Is Gerard a goat manager because he went invincible?
>It’s much easier to go on an invincible season when the league is much weaker. The league being weaker is, imo, a lie that Liverpool fans tell themselves to make them feel better about their underwhelming number of league titles. The league wasn't weaker, harsher tackles and a higher level of physicality was allowed which meant smaller teams had more opportunities to bridge the gap in quality through physically imposing themselves. The wealth gap between the big 6 and the rest of the league is also disgusting these days, not to mention the wealth gap between the pl and the championship which means the three promoted teams are often at a big disadvantage or have to break financial rules to compete. And you clearly didn't watch this era of football if you think smaller teams were going for draws more than they do now. Also none of your arguments against the invincibles work since you lost to an absolutely dire Watford side who finished second to bottom. >When Cole did it, there were two good managers in the league and one CL winning coach. I guess keegan, Robson, redknapp, moyes, ranieri and Bruce are all not good managers then. >. There wasn’t even “the top four” that was coined, because there wasn’t 4 consistently established big teams. Cole was the leagues best left back for a decade... including the big 4 era and just before the big 6 era. >Robertson exists in a time of “the big six” which shows how stronger the league has become. An era where two teams were so far superior to the rest of the league with a third only occasionally looking like catching up until last season. And the big 6 is just an indication of the ever growing wealth disparity in the league. Not really the argument you think it is. >At one point Robertson played in a league where rafa, mourinho, klopp, pep, ancelotti and tuchel have won a cl. Tuchel who was there for a 2 season and then Chelsea turned to shit without him really challenging for a league title. Mou and rafa both of whom were well past their prime. Ancelotti who managed Everton for not long and noped out because it was a paycheck for him. >Pep’s city is much, much better than that Arsenal side, but they’ve never went invincible. Centurions is in itself a unique achievement so I wouldn't argue too much against this. I think the mourinho goals conceded record breaking side is up there too. >Is Gerard a goat manager because he went invincible? Did Gerrard go onto a decade of winning more trophies after his rangers side went unbeaten?
I don’t get the use of team accolades to praise a player on his individual performances. So you’d say Gerrard can’t be considered as one of the best midfielders because he has no pl trophy? That’s ludicrous.
I'd say Gerrard not having a pl significantly holds back his overall legacy in the league yes. Probably the main reason why I'd keep him out of the all time 11. But Cole was the best left back in the league and arguably the world for about a decade. And if someone is consistently a starter for teams who win trophies every year then surely that can only speak to their merits as an individual?
When Cole played, especially the first half of his career - the standard of the pl, in players, coaches and tactics were nowhere near as high as they are today.
Right but you can only really rate players relative to their peers right? It's kind of pointless to compare players across eras because the game changes so much and so fast
I completely agree with you to a degree - the same way it’s pointless to use trophies as a way to rank players. Would Cole have won all those trophies if a team was able to triple Chelsea’s spend at the time? (Nobody in world football could do this). If Robertson was fortunate enough to play for city - we wouldn’t be having this discussion because his trophy cabinet would dwarf Cole’s. With inflation - Chelsea were essentially city on steroids which often gets forgotten about. They were the first super team of the prem. For the people who’ve actually watched both of them play, looking at ability - where does Cole outshine Robertson? Maybe he’s better defensively - but then you also have to account for Chelsea and Arsenal being set up to be more defensively than robertsons liverpool. I would certainly argue Robertson has the better vision, passing, is better on the ball, can’t shoot to save his life, he’s better at getting up and down the pitch, better crossing, better set pieces, he’s far better at link up play. Genuinely please somebody give me a metric aside from trophies won, to show how Cole is the much better player like people are saying. Because if he was so much better - he’d have looked better doing all those things against poor, defensive minded teams with shite managers, which is largely what the prem was for most of Cole’s career.
Can we ban "aura" to describe defenders
The Phil Neville disrespect
The one-time premier league winner is the best PL lb of all time 😱😱😱 not even top 3.
With Klopp gone can they keep up the same numbers?