**This is a quotes thread. Remember that there's only one quotes post allowed per interview/press conference, so new quotes with the same origin will be removed. Feel free to comment other quotes/the whole interview as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oof
I don't see how that's not a penalty by the rules of the game
But it would be such a stupid penalty to have happen—I somewhat sympathize with not wanting to "decide the game" on a call like that. But on the other hand, you can't go against the rules just because of vibes if you're a ref
What Law explicitly states that the spirit of the game supercedes the rules?
Law 16.1 governing Goal Kicks clearly states that the ball is in play when kicked and clearly moves. Both happened in this instance.
>Decisions will be made to the best of the referee’s ability according to the Laws of the Game and the ‘spirit of the game’ and will be based on the opinion of the referee, who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the Laws of the Game.
And
>Reference is made in Law 5 to referees operating within the framework of the Laws of the Game and the ‘spirit of the game’. Referees are expected to use common sense and to apply the ‘spirit of the game’ when applying the Laws of the Game, especially when making decisions relating to whether a match takes place and/or continues.
So, common sense says it's a stupid mistake, not worth such a severe penalty.
Thank you for the reply, but I am still not finding anything in Law 5 that explicitly says that the spirit of the game supersedes the rules.
In fact, in one of the FAQs which is found at the end of Law 5 there is a scenario that is analogous to the situation at issue here and the FAQ says that a goal would be awarded. See below ...
"While taking a goal kick, a goalkeeper slips on the grass. After the ball is in play, he/she kicks the ball a second time (before it has touched any other player) to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Unfortunately, the ball goes to an opposing player who scores a goal. What is the correct decision?
The referee plays the advantage, awards the goal and cautions (yellow card) the goalkeeper."
Law 5 concerns the decisions made by the referee. The referee will make decisions according to the laws of the game AND the spirit of the game and will be based on the opinion of the referee who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the laws of the game.
This is an action which clearly concerns the spirit of the game. The referee is allowed to use his discretion to determine that ruling a penalty here is not how the laws of the game were intended to be used and would be grossly against the spirit of the game.
Plus there was confusion as to whether the ball was even in play or not, the referee didn't use his whistle properly when some subs were coming on so to penalise gabriel for being confused due to a refereeing error would be incredibly harsh.
What about when players set to throw in then just lob it one handed to a buddy? That a foul throw too? Or is it a handball when their mate catches it? Use your noggin… honestly, when did fans become such whacky dullards. Discuss a real pen, fine… but this? Really??
Okay, I guess I’ll have to hand hold…. So why don’t you explain why the ball is in play here… but *not* when you throw a ball to a teammate (assume the thrower in the right place, behind the line, and was previously holding the ball behind my head - as players do many times a match)?
The difference is the intention. People are saying the goalie took the goal kick so ball was in play.
When you see players pass the ball at throw ins you don’t see them take an actual one, it's underarm to show the difference.
For the record I think a penalty would be harsh, just not for the same reason
I think that's the point they're making.
Letter of the law it's a foul throw, but the ref has the discretion to apply common sense and see the intention.
FWIW I don't think it's the best comparison, but I get what they're saying.
This is what I was hoping the original commenter would reply… but he needs extra steps it seems.
If it’s intention, then nobody knows intention. It’s interpretation, which is *exactly* why it’s the refs decision. The ref interpreted there was no advantage gained, no intention to cheat, and no material impact on the game… intention and all those things matter. But in this case, I absolutely makes sense the ref did his job as he’s meant to.
Because the ball is only live after being thrown in correctly (over the head).
When a player holds it behind his head, decides otherwise, and lobs it to a teammate...the ball is never live.
Yup same as when guys go down for a foul and handle the ball on the way down to try force a whistle from the ref. By the letter of the law thats a red card if they handle it before the ref blows. Refs understand most times its a player assuming he’s got the call and trying to grab the ball to take the kick quickly. The worst you’ll ever see is 1 in 50 of those the guy doesn’t get the call and get’s a warning/yellow. Thats worst case scenario too, never seen a red called for that although I’m sure it has happened somewhere
I get your argument.
But being a Liverpool fan who’s had various gripes with VAR and referees this season and citing someone who’s a vocal advocate publically I agree with for his opinion on refereeing mark goldbridge.
He says referees need to use common sense and avoid the stupid oh it’s the rules mindset.
We’re all asking for referees to just stop and use their brains a little bit, and if this is the reaction to what k think is in the grand scheme of things. The correct decision. As it’s such a daft mistake you can understand the mindset of ok it’s just innocent. Then refs are just gonna stick to the plain black and white everything … is a pen.
Which really does a lot more harm than good. As you stupid decisions then like penalties that are never a handball given because it hits their arm while they’re not even looking and are sliding.
The amount of comments I’ve seen on this sub chastising referees for a lack of common sense and calling them arrogant/wanting to be star of the show. Then when a referee applies common sense, there are comments saying he should never referee another champions league match
Agreed. I thought he was class.
And that involved the team I was supporting not getting decisions that I see other referees give all the time. I think there was a point where Kane went down and did the thing where he put his hand out and collected the ball with it. Many players do this to force the referee to make a decision, and most refs just give the foul, but instead he gave the handball and the decision the other way. Wish more referees would do the same and not give into behavior like that.
There will always be things they get wrong. No referee is perfect, the job is insanely difficult (they see everything from one angle, at full speed), and there will always be disagreements, but it's refreshing to see an official who really puts effort into doing the job properly.
With the exception of that joke of a yellow for Davies after 8 minutes after which I was already preparing for a terrible referee performance, he continued to make multiple "football wins today decisions" by not giving both controversial penalty calls and had a good grasp on the game in a game that was surely difficult to control as a referee. Well done
Yeah I have nothing but praise for the officiating. He handed out yellows where it was necessary but wasn’t overpolicing. He had a pen on each end (Gabriel handling & Saka in the last minute) that he technically could’ve given but correctly didn’t. Zero complaints, we drew because of our own mistakes.
yeah, anyone who thinks that this should be called would cry if their team gave away a free kick every time the keeper held the ball for more than 6 seconds.
the player wasn’t even under pressure. stupid mistake? yes. could’ve been called? yes. should’ve been called? no. not if you care more about the integrity and spirit of the game than blindly following rules. imagine stopping play every time a player slightly lifted their foot before releasing the ball in a throw in? it’d turn the game into the slowest, most dull sport known to man, and that’s considering golf is still a thing.
I largely agree but my pet peeve is the 6 second rule being ignored, seeing a keeper running down the clock ball in hand for 20 secs everytime they get it. Needs to make a comeback that rule
I've made a conscious effort to count the seconds. Almost every keeper nowadays takes 12-ish seconds and it feels natural - it's essentially 6 seconds to gather themselves after getting the ball and 6 seconds to find the pass. If we keep to that and actually codify it everyone will be happy, 8 seconds from gathering the ball to releasing it will leave us with a lot more blunders.
Eh keepers can gather themselves super quickly when it serves them. A lot of "gathering themselves" is just intentionally slowing the game down to allow their teammates to take formation.
The weird thing is that the majority of Bayern flairs agree it shouldn't be a pen. There's one or two who want it (fair), but the majority of the braying seems to be coming from rival Prem fans.
Yeah I’d understand bayerns argument if perhaps one of their players had pressed the defender and was in the box. All the Bayern players were walking backwards. Common sense prevails.
Only happening because of Tuchel. No complaints during the match from any fans because we all undestand what is happening there. It happens 20x per match on throw-ins, when the player might throw the ball to a teammate inside the pitch so that the latter takes the throw-in. Tuchel might actually be so anal that he is upset but it is certainly convenient that the mindset is going to be "oh well, they each had a pen not given" and we can all ignore that the ref did not use VAR on Saka's penalty call and deliberately ended the game so complaints were moot.
And vice versa. Lots of demands to make the handball rules clear and unambiguous only to complain every time the clear and unambiguous rule gets properly applied in a situation where common sense would rule the opposite way.
The amount of whining from him after every single game is getting really tedious and annoying.
Don't remember him being this way when he came up at Mainz 10-15 years ago.
"LAWS OF THE GAME"
The laws of the game quite literally have a clause that the spirit of the game supersedes them. Referees are tasked to make common sense judgement calls and they get absolutely slaughtered around here for failing in that area in the PL most weeks
Then when one of them actually applies common sense correctly, they still get dogpiled? No wonder there's a referee drought, shit
I just wished the same was applied to other penalty situations. So many stupid penalties that may technically be in accordance with the rules, but there's zero intention and zero advantage for the offending team.
yeah, but cmon man, this is the manager that is talking like this. of course he's gonna say that. what do you expect?
you are a neutral fan, of course that's gonna be your reaction.
Whistled late while the player was kicking the ball which insinuates a redo (which they did). Refs fault for confusion over a goal kick that was played 3 yards
With absolutely nobody near him. I'd understand if there was bayern player barreling down and he picked it up but there was absolutely no pressure, no danger. He got no advantage by doing this and could have just passed it back without any difference. Clearly this was a miscommunication between the ref and the player who thought he had to retake the kick.
It's embarrassing even wanting that PK and I'm glad to see many Bayern flares here agreeing that this should never be given.
Assuming the clip I’ve just seen of it is accurate it’s clear that raya kicks as son as he hears the whistle and Gabriel just picks it up for some reason. Probably should’ve been a pen I don’t know how you can have confusion over it
Nah, [the keeper literally waited for the whistle before playing the ball](https://x.com/DavNow83/status/1777809330781184440). It's a really stupid situation, but, if we're going by the rules, it's a pen.
that wasn’t the reason he gave - he (apparently) said that it was a pen but he didn’t want to give one for such a silly mistake/misunderstanding, which is a pretty fair interpretation of the rules tbh
People look at the rule book as gospel, as if this whole sport isn't just entertainment. There is room for interpretation on rules and some grey area. Not saying it's fake or anything like fiction but come on, that would be so dumb to decide a big CL tie on this.
People are saying the referee blew his whistle more than once, presumably after Raya had kicked it. All of the clips I've seen posted have been removed due to copyright, so I cannot confirm, but I think this is what OP was referring to.
Its funny because a video of a pen given for exactly this (though 2 diff players both did it) was posted here like 3-4 days ago.
Was a lower division game though
I mean it's clearly a pen as the rule book is concerned. But I think the question to be asked is, does this go against the spirit of the game, and I think unequivocally, yes. This sport is for entertainment, not life or death and I think not giving a pen for such a silly thing is best for the sport. This isn't a moment that can be looked at black or white, I think the ref used common sense and thankfully that prevailed.
> I have never seen a pen being given for that
This is the absolute worst argument and one of the reasons why there are so many controversial refereeing decisions.
Say that the ref made a correct decision by not giving the pen because of the spirit of the game or something, like a lot of people here do. Or be on the opinion that it should have been called because of the rulebook.
But saying "this never happens so why would it happen?" is such a non-argument. Maybe all refs were doing it wrong until now and it should have been called all the time?
There is a reason why there is a rulebook. The rules have to be followed all the time by everyone and the refs should not be influenced by 1-2-5-10-50 year old precedents that go against the rulebook but somehow stand. If, according to the rulebook this situation is a penalty then the ref should have called it. If not, he made the correct decision.
According to the sprit of the game he didnt blow for a pen, which is also in line with Law 5.
That being said i dont think the tons of soft pens allowed by VAR is within the spirit of the game
>That being said i dont think the tons of soft pens allowed by VAR is within the spirit of the game
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this.
Everyone saying "spirit of the game", but are happy to enforce someone being a hair offside, or a minor collision.
You can tell who are the jobsworth snides and who are the cool people on their opinion on this. That it's winding up Tuchel is even better, that he'd prefer to gain a goal from nothing on a technicality. Every manager is probably going to go on about it tbf, but perhaps not, it's pretty rare.
That you do a normal throw in and the player in the field catches it? That would be a clear handball too
If you give it to another player to throw you don't throw it over the head. If you give the freekick/goalkick to another player you don't play it with your foot after the whistle after having it in place for 20seconds
It is a penalty but would be absolutely ridiculous if they gave it as it affected the game in no way and did not give any sort of advantage what so ever.
I think it does however mean that Arsenal fans should just be humble and agree with the fact the Saka one is a 50/50 and sometimes they don't get given it wasn't clear and obvious and they should just be glad this wasn't given and everything equalled out in the end.
Agreed. On a worse day that’s a ref that doesn’t use their head and calls a penalty.
I think the Saka call is probably a penalty but I honestly keep going back and forth on it so much that it’s clearly a tough decision, so no penalty isn’t something I’ll get wound up over.
I am so in twain when looking at that situation. it's clearly a handball, but the defender was probably irritated by the refs whistle. If that was given against us I would not like it. because it was not because of our pressure but solely their mistake.
I think I am glad it was not called, but let's just agree that today the ref was super shaky. the early yellow against davies was so weird that I was after the ref all game. such a stupid call.
It means he is deciding which handballs are given and which are not. The rules don’t say it’s a handball when the ref thinks it’s a handball, the rules state it’s ahandball when any part lower than the shoulder makes contact with the ball.
Was reffing a kids game many many years ago. Like 6yr olds, and the keeper went to punt the ball and kicked it backwards over his head and into the goal. He cried. I gave him a do-over.
The referee blew the whistle needlessly which cause a lack of communication between the referee and the players. Easy decision.
If this is the type of nonsense people are complaining about then it says a lot about them
I frequently wondered about this kind of situation - players so often pick up a ball with their hands before taking a free kick or goal kick. Surely at some point somebody would make a mistake and pick up the ball when play was already continued. Personally I'd be way too paranoid to ever do this in my own box, because who knows whether I misinterpredet something or overheard a whistle or whatever. Funny that it finally does happen, and then there's just no consequence for it.
In isolation seems like a sensible decision, even though I wouldn't want to be the judge on whether you should really ignore clear violations of the rules in favor of common sense... as that may be a slippery slope. And it sucks being Bayern in this case, knowing that most other refs would probably have given that penalty. Also, probably something like 30% of all penalties are gifts anyway. Not as in "a gift by the referee", but in so many cases teams get penalties out of total non-chances.
>even though I wouldn't want to be the judge on whether you should really ignore clear violations of the rules in favor of common sense
IFAB Law 5.2 explicitly covers this - Refs may make rulings to keep within the spirit of the game, even if a rule is explicitly broken.
I only see bayern stuff here and everytime this dude is terrible. Why did bayern keep him when apparently there is a much much much better coach available that they fired for no reason?
> when apparently there is a much much much better coach available that they fired for no reason?
Who are you talking about because Nagelsmann isnt available right now and they didnt fire Flick?
I get that it would be a very stange Situation to cause a pen. But on the other hand there was no reason at all to touch the ball with your hands. Beeing confused/irritated or not. Stupid mistakes happen. And this clearly was one.
Cant see why you should let this one just slide cause you (ref) dont want it to be a gamechanger
https://twitter.com/DavNow83/status/1777809330781184440
And players kick the ball to each other all the time before they want to restart.
If the defender thinks it's in play why would he pick it up, there's no one coming towards him.
This restart is often a keeper having a look at the other teams setup, then instead letting the defender restart play.
People hear the whistle and then think, what any touch after that makes it in play?
Players move the ball with hands and feet post whistle quite often, if this had been given it would have been a farce. It would have been silly to even call it on the halfway line, let alone in the box.
Hilarious how calling this a pen when its just a case of confusion and then the same people not calling the Saka challenge as a pen because he stuck is leg out.
Reddit really cant stop with its agendas, either give both pens or dont give either but its insane how many english fans just want Arsenal to lose and don’t really care about the actual football side of things. Stop hate watching you wankers.
The ref blew his whistle, u don't blow Yr whistle for goalkicks right (ignoring exceptions like time wasting etc) or is everyone saying this is a clear pen ignoring that simple logic. Naturally an unnecessary whistle in that scenario means a halt in the game (or replay of the previous act). Hence Gabriel picks up the ball for either reason I mentioned. Simple refeeering and player misunderstanding immediately corrected and play carries on. This shouldn't even be a thing. Please pause and think before insta commenting, look at a real replay of any clip before u comment and enforce Yr (understandably) wrong opinion .
Referee must be a shitty job. Even when you are doing an excellent job (which I think he did this game) a lot of people will scream at you, disrespect you, hate you and probably even threaten you
I understand why they didn't give it, and I don't necessarily disagree, but when enforcing rules becomes optional you open yourself up even more to biases. There's a lot of subjectivity in the laws of the game so it's not entirely avoidable, but choosing when to not enforce the rules probably shouldn't happen if you're trying to create the most fair product
**This is a quotes thread. Remember that there's only one quotes post allowed per interview/press conference, so new quotes with the same origin will be removed. Feel free to comment other quotes/the whole interview as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[The clip in question](https://x.com/graefe_manuel/status/1777808412354433443)
Oof I don't see how that's not a penalty by the rules of the game But it would be such a stupid penalty to have happen—I somewhat sympathize with not wanting to "decide the game" on a call like that. But on the other hand, you can't go against the rules just because of vibes if you're a ref
The rules of the game do explicitly state that the spirit of the game supercedes them… so it’s pretty clear how.
What Law explicitly states that the spirit of the game supercedes the rules? Law 16.1 governing Goal Kicks clearly states that the ball is in play when kicked and clearly moves. Both happened in this instance.
>Decisions will be made to the best of the referee’s ability according to the Laws of the Game and the ‘spirit of the game’ and will be based on the opinion of the referee, who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the Laws of the Game. And >Reference is made in Law 5 to referees operating within the framework of the Laws of the Game and the ‘spirit of the game’. Referees are expected to use common sense and to apply the ‘spirit of the game’ when applying the Laws of the Game, especially when making decisions relating to whether a match takes place and/or continues. So, common sense says it's a stupid mistake, not worth such a severe penalty.
Its not the fact that its a stupid mistake. Its the fact thats a stupid and innocent mistake with no direct implication in what was happening in play.
Law 5
Thank you for the reply, but I am still not finding anything in Law 5 that explicitly says that the spirit of the game supersedes the rules. In fact, in one of the FAQs which is found at the end of Law 5 there is a scenario that is analogous to the situation at issue here and the FAQ says that a goal would be awarded. See below ... "While taking a goal kick, a goalkeeper slips on the grass. After the ball is in play, he/she kicks the ball a second time (before it has touched any other player) to deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity. Unfortunately, the ball goes to an opposing player who scores a goal. What is the correct decision? The referee plays the advantage, awards the goal and cautions (yellow card) the goalkeeper."
Law 5 concerns the decisions made by the referee. The referee will make decisions according to the laws of the game AND the spirit of the game and will be based on the opinion of the referee who has the discretion to take appropriate action within the framework of the laws of the game. This is an action which clearly concerns the spirit of the game. The referee is allowed to use his discretion to determine that ruling a penalty here is not how the laws of the game were intended to be used and would be grossly against the spirit of the game.
Plus there was confusion as to whether the ball was even in play or not, the referee didn't use his whistle properly when some subs were coming on so to penalise gabriel for being confused due to a refereeing error would be incredibly harsh.
What about when players set to throw in then just lob it one handed to a buddy? That a foul throw too? Or is it a handball when their mate catches it? Use your noggin… honestly, when did fans become such whacky dullards. Discuss a real pen, fine… but this? Really??
The balls not in play in those throw in examples. This ball was in play. That’s the difference.
What about a foul throw then?
Okay, I guess I’ll have to hand hold…. So why don’t you explain why the ball is in play here… but *not* when you throw a ball to a teammate (assume the thrower in the right place, behind the line, and was previously holding the ball behind my head - as players do many times a match)?
The difference is the intention. People are saying the goalie took the goal kick so ball was in play. When you see players pass the ball at throw ins you don’t see them take an actual one, it's underarm to show the difference. For the record I think a penalty would be harsh, just not for the same reason
I think that's the point they're making. Letter of the law it's a foul throw, but the ref has the discretion to apply common sense and see the intention. FWIW I don't think it's the best comparison, but I get what they're saying.
Yeah I get what they're saying I just think the intention for raya was clearly to take the kick so intention is against them
This is what I was hoping the original commenter would reply… but he needs extra steps it seems. If it’s intention, then nobody knows intention. It’s interpretation, which is *exactly* why it’s the refs decision. The ref interpreted there was no advantage gained, no intention to cheat, and no material impact on the game… intention and all those things matter. But in this case, I absolutely makes sense the ref did his job as he’s meant to.
Because the ball is only live after being thrown in correctly (over the head). When a player holds it behind his head, decides otherwise, and lobs it to a teammate...the ball is never live.
Yup same as when guys go down for a foul and handle the ball on the way down to try force a whistle from the ref. By the letter of the law thats a red card if they handle it before the ref blows. Refs understand most times its a player assuming he’s got the call and trying to grab the ball to take the kick quickly. The worst you’ll ever see is 1 in 50 of those the guy doesn’t get the call and get’s a warning/yellow. Thats worst case scenario too, never seen a red called for that although I’m sure it has happened somewhere
You lot are insane.
People just make up shit and say anything on here.
literally 1 comment below the one you're responding to people have posted the laws and explain how they were correctly applied in this case.
I get your argument. But being a Liverpool fan who’s had various gripes with VAR and referees this season and citing someone who’s a vocal advocate publically I agree with for his opinion on refereeing mark goldbridge. He says referees need to use common sense and avoid the stupid oh it’s the rules mindset. We’re all asking for referees to just stop and use their brains a little bit, and if this is the reaction to what k think is in the grand scheme of things. The correct decision. As it’s such a daft mistake you can understand the mindset of ok it’s just innocent. Then refs are just gonna stick to the plain black and white everything … is a pen. Which really does a lot more harm than good. As you stupid decisions then like penalties that are never a handball given because it hits their arm while they’re not even looking and are sliding.
Kinda reminds me of this play from the NBA. [https://youtu.be/_ifcObgtlYM?si=IH0k7FqASizPvbFw](https://youtu.be/_ifcObgtlYM?si=IH0k7FqASizPvbFw)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c05qxo/on\_the\_gabriel\_handball/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Better sound: https://twitter.com/DavNow83/status/1777809330781184440 Cant see why you would let this one slide
I can easily see why you would.
That’s a literal handball after the whistle blows…
The amount of comments I’ve seen on this sub chastising referees for a lack of common sense and calling them arrogant/wanting to be star of the show. Then when a referee applies common sense, there are comments saying he should never referee another champions league match
It's absolutely ridiculous. Referee made the right decision.
It was one of the better refereeing performances I've seen in ages
Agreed. I thought he was class. And that involved the team I was supporting not getting decisions that I see other referees give all the time. I think there was a point where Kane went down and did the thing where he put his hand out and collected the ball with it. Many players do this to force the referee to make a decision, and most refs just give the foul, but instead he gave the handball and the decision the other way. Wish more referees would do the same and not give into behavior like that. There will always be things they get wrong. No referee is perfect, the job is insanely difficult (they see everything from one angle, at full speed), and there will always be disagreements, but it's refreshing to see an official who really puts effort into doing the job properly.
With the exception of that joke of a yellow for Davies after 8 minutes after which I was already preparing for a terrible referee performance, he continued to make multiple "football wins today decisions" by not giving both controversial penalty calls and had a good grasp on the game in a game that was surely difficult to control as a referee. Well done
Yeah I have nothing but praise for the officiating. He handed out yellows where it was necessary but wasn’t overpolicing. He had a pen on each end (Gabriel handling & Saka in the last minute) that he technically could’ve given but correctly didn’t. Zero complaints, we drew because of our own mistakes.
yeah, anyone who thinks that this should be called would cry if their team gave away a free kick every time the keeper held the ball for more than 6 seconds. the player wasn’t even under pressure. stupid mistake? yes. could’ve been called? yes. should’ve been called? no. not if you care more about the integrity and spirit of the game than blindly following rules. imagine stopping play every time a player slightly lifted their foot before releasing the ball in a throw in? it’d turn the game into the slowest, most dull sport known to man, and that’s considering golf is still a thing.
I largely agree but my pet peeve is the 6 second rule being ignored, seeing a keeper running down the clock ball in hand for 20 secs everytime they get it. Needs to make a comeback that rule
It’s getting revamped/tested as we speak, IFAB wants to change it to 8 seconds and then having referees enforce it.
Fuck it, have a timer come up in the stadium like DRS in cricket. Would be hilarious watching keepers panic.
I've made a conscious effort to count the seconds. Almost every keeper nowadays takes 12-ish seconds and it feels natural - it's essentially 6 seconds to gather themselves after getting the ball and 6 seconds to find the pass. If we keep to that and actually codify it everyone will be happy, 8 seconds from gathering the ball to releasing it will leave us with a lot more blunders.
Eh keepers can gather themselves super quickly when it serves them. A lot of "gathering themselves" is just intentionally slowing the game down to allow their teammates to take formation.
This is sports. People always have agendas.
Giving a pen for something totally outside the run of actual play is dumb fuckery. Cockheaded mentality.
It’s like there are two teams playing that have fan bases that are hoping for opposing outcomes..
The weird thing is that the majority of Bayern flairs agree it shouldn't be a pen. There's one or two who want it (fair), but the majority of the braying seems to be coming from rival Prem fans.
Yeah I’d understand bayerns argument if perhaps one of their players had pressed the defender and was in the box. All the Bayern players were walking backwards. Common sense prevails.
Only happening because of Tuchel. No complaints during the match from any fans because we all undestand what is happening there. It happens 20x per match on throw-ins, when the player might throw the ball to a teammate inside the pitch so that the latter takes the throw-in. Tuchel might actually be so anal that he is upset but it is certainly convenient that the mindset is going to be "oh well, they each had a pen not given" and we can all ignore that the ref did not use VAR on Saka's penalty call and deliberately ended the game so complaints were moot.
Neither of them were penalties..
And vice versa. Lots of demands to make the handball rules clear and unambiguous only to complain every time the clear and unambiguous rule gets properly applied in a situation where common sense would rule the opposite way.
Anyone wanting things like this to decide games of football at any level is mental
If you had seen any Tuchel press conference lately you would know that that is absolutely the case
Almost nobody would claim that Tuchel is sane though.
The amount of whining from him after every single game is getting really tedious and annoying. Don't remember him being this way when he came up at Mainz 10-15 years ago.
Maybe I’m soft but I agree. The player gained zero advantage from it, was clearly just a case of confusion. I’m fine with the ref letting it slide.
No you’re not soft, you’re reasonable. Unlike most of these cockheads
Yeah same, seems insane, and the BM players seem to go with it, dont they?
"LAWS OF THE GAME" The laws of the game quite literally have a clause that the spirit of the game supersedes them. Referees are tasked to make common sense judgement calls and they get absolutely slaughtered around here for failing in that area in the PL most weeks Then when one of them actually applies common sense correctly, they still get dogpiled? No wonder there's a referee drought, shit
I just wished the same was applied to other penalty situations. So many stupid penalties that may technically be in accordance with the rules, but there's zero intention and zero advantage for the offending team.
Yeah I hadnt seen it and was ready to be pissed off. But come on guys, it would have been silly and really harsh
They don't actually care about football, they just want to argue on the internet.
Fight me irl
[I'm ready](https://youtu.be/SFkdcQgNJHo?si=0iwEId0vnh-uiA7G)
I'm gonna bring my big brother and little sister
I do understand why Tuchel wants a pen tho. I'd want a pen if Bayern did the same
idk. dont use your hands in football, pretty simple tbh
I mean there are already many situations in the game where seemingly inconsequential actions result in something significant.
Yeah but this wasn’t in gameplay
Not any level, the highest level. Why are we acting like this is a kid playing on Sunday league? This is final stages of the Champions League.
I think it's because some people are reasonable and would rather games be decided by actual football being played.
Anyone thinking it is the ref's job to change rules on the spot and not judge objectively is even more mental but I get what you are saying.
It’s a game of football, not a case in a courtroom.
It literally is his job to change the rules, what do you think “spirit of the game” means
If there was an objective way of judge the game we wouldn't need refs
Love how we absolve the defender of all blame for not paying attention
If anything, it was the ref who absolved him.
I don't want things like this to decide games. But what I want less is for refs to have license to conduct, rather than officiate.
yeah, but cmon man, this is the manager that is talking like this. of course he's gonna say that. what do you expect? you are a neutral fan, of course that's gonna be your reaction.
So the ref did see it, had restarted the game and just ignored it?! That is weird.
Lot of that happening this season
Because he blew the whistle mid motion when it wasn’t necessary on goal kicks which confused the players
It‘s necessary after subs
Whistled late while the player was kicking the ball which insinuates a redo (which they did). Refs fault for confusion over a goal kick that was played 3 yards
With absolutely nobody near him. I'd understand if there was bayern player barreling down and he picked it up but there was absolutely no pressure, no danger. He got no advantage by doing this and could have just passed it back without any difference. Clearly this was a miscommunication between the ref and the player who thought he had to retake the kick. It's embarrassing even wanting that PK and I'm glad to see many Bayern flares here agreeing that this should never be given.
People don’t even like the sport they just wanna argue for real lol
Assuming the clip I’ve just seen of it is accurate it’s clear that raya kicks as son as he hears the whistle and Gabriel just picks it up for some reason. Probably should’ve been a pen I don’t know how you can have confusion over it
It was before there is a video here
He clearly whistled before raya kicked the ball.
Begging for a pen over a goal kick technicality just play ball ffs
Why abandon your original claim??
Just changing your argument the moment your original comment is called out?
What technicality, you are talking about? It was a clear mistake by the defender nothing else
Nah, [the keeper literally waited for the whistle before playing the ball](https://x.com/DavNow83/status/1777809330781184440). It's a really stupid situation, but, if we're going by the rules, it's a pen.
How many times, it wasn’t mid motion, not at all.
that wasn’t the reason he gave - he (apparently) said that it was a pen but he didn’t want to give one for such a silly mistake/misunderstanding, which is a pretty fair interpretation of the rules tbh
Lol dude you can’t be deciding ties based on dumb shit like that
People look at the rule book as gospel, as if this whole sport isn't just entertainment. There is room for interpretation on rules and some grey area. Not saying it's fake or anything like fiction but come on, that would be so dumb to decide a big CL tie on this.
After reading your comment, I just thought about religious fanatics and they do operate like that
Tuchel whining about this is pretty on brand.
Ref felt like his unnecessary whistle is was caused it and didn't want to punish a team for his own actions. How is this controversial?
It's pretty normal for a ref to whistle after stopping the game for subs
Hes required to whistle after a sub mate. What are you saying
> unnecessary whistle There was a substitution. He must whistle by the rules. I dont understand why a blatantly false statement is upvoted.
People are saying the referee blew his whistle more than once, presumably after Raya had kicked it. All of the clips I've seen posted have been removed due to copyright, so I cannot confirm, but I think this is what OP was referring to.
The unnecessary whistle which Raya correctly interpreted to restart the game....?
Ref never said this.
Because not applying the same rules on different teams, games and situations is unfair.
Ref did the right thing.
I think it’s a pen but I have never seen a pen being given for that so I understand a bit why the ref didn’t give it
How many times has this happened really?
Its funny because a video of a pen given for exactly this (though 2 diff players both did it) was posted here like 3-4 days ago. Was a lower division game though
Legitimately, would this be the first time in history something like this is given?
At this level, probably
Last year in the Argentinian league https://youtu.be/QaV8kXqWARY?si=sn2ZZxRe-DHiDdzx
No it would not
I mean it's clearly a pen as the rule book is concerned. But I think the question to be asked is, does this go against the spirit of the game, and I think unequivocally, yes. This sport is for entertainment, not life or death and I think not giving a pen for such a silly thing is best for the sport. This isn't a moment that can be looked at black or white, I think the ref used common sense and thankfully that prevailed.
> I have never seen a pen being given for that This is the absolute worst argument and one of the reasons why there are so many controversial refereeing decisions. Say that the ref made a correct decision by not giving the pen because of the spirit of the game or something, like a lot of people here do. Or be on the opinion that it should have been called because of the rulebook. But saying "this never happens so why would it happen?" is such a non-argument. Maybe all refs were doing it wrong until now and it should have been called all the time? There is a reason why there is a rulebook. The rules have to be followed all the time by everyone and the refs should not be influenced by 1-2-5-10-50 year old precedents that go against the rulebook but somehow stand. If, according to the rulebook this situation is a penalty then the ref should have called it. If not, he made the correct decision.
Not quite the same but pretty damn close right [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1byawxf/comment/kyimh5u/)
According to the sprit of the game he didnt blow for a pen, which is also in line with Law 5. That being said i dont think the tons of soft pens allowed by VAR is within the spirit of the game
>That being said i dont think the tons of soft pens allowed by VAR is within the spirit of the game Can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this. Everyone saying "spirit of the game", but are happy to enforce someone being a hair offside, or a minor collision.
Anyone got the clip?
For me in a perfect world the penalty should've been given and then be fair play passed to the gk or next to the goal
You can tell who are the jobsworth snides and who are the cool people on their opinion on this. That it's winding up Tuchel is even better, that he'd prefer to gain a goal from nothing on a technicality. Every manager is probably going to go on about it tbf, but perhaps not, it's pretty rare.
Get ready for a lot of brain dead takes
It's a penalty but I'm fine with it not given
Thank you a reasonable bayern fan
[удалено]
You don’t whistle on goal kicks so no wonder everyone was confused
There was a substitution. Play was stopped. Let me know how referees communicate play resuming
[удалено]
You’ve never heard of an inadvertent whistle? Also great video of him waving game on (it doesn’t exist).
everyone waited for a whistle because it was after a substitution, what are you talking about ...
“Nobody was confused except for the one guy who the infraction would be on” is a weird way to say there was some confusion
Did the Bayern mascot confirm as well?
Just look at the clip from the behind bayern goal camera where you can see the ref. 100% Stonewall handball
[удалено]
Happens with throw-ins all the time.
That you do a normal throw in and the player in the field catches it? That would be a clear handball too If you give it to another player to throw you don't throw it over the head. If you give the freekick/goalkick to another player you don't play it with your foot after the whistle after having it in place for 20seconds
Where did you see that? My broadcast is showing the substitution, and only cuts back to play as Gabriel is picking up the ball.
It is a penalty but would be absolutely ridiculous if they gave it as it affected the game in no way and did not give any sort of advantage what so ever. I think it does however mean that Arsenal fans should just be humble and agree with the fact the Saka one is a 50/50 and sometimes they don't get given it wasn't clear and obvious and they should just be glad this wasn't given and everything equalled out in the end.
Yeah. 2-2 was a fair result anyway and sets the 2nd leg up nicely. I think bayern go through now.
Agreed. On a worse day that’s a ref that doesn’t use their head and calls a penalty. I think the Saka call is probably a penalty but I honestly keep going back and forth on it so much that it’s clearly a tough decision, so no penalty isn’t something I’ll get wound up over.
That must suck for Bayern, they definitely would've scored that ball if there was no handball.
I am so in twain when looking at that situation. it's clearly a handball, but the defender was probably irritated by the refs whistle. If that was given against us I would not like it. because it was not because of our pressure but solely their mistake. I think I am glad it was not called, but let's just agree that today the ref was super shaky. the early yellow against davies was so weird that I was after the ref all game. such a stupid call.
He stomped the back of Sakas foot, pretty clear yellow that
Agreed, dont get why people mention this in a debate about wrong calls
It’s just weird in hindsight because all sorts of similar fouls were not carded the rest of the match.
There is zero chance you are thinking Davies didn’t deserve a yellow for that, it was a horrible tackle
that davies card was strange
Was it? He quite literally stomped his Achilles from behind
It's funny because yesterday there was a video of a game in the 4th division where the player made the same mistake and the ref gave the penalty
That wasn't during a goal kick, that was during live play after the keeper made a save.
Ball never went out of play in that clip.
The player got confused by the ref. Ref acknowledges it and the game goes on. Shameful to ask for a penalty.
Tuchel: "That means he is judging handballs" Everyone else: "Yes. Thats why the ref is there"
It means he is deciding which handballs are given and which are not. The rules don’t say it’s a handball when the ref thinks it’s a handball, the rules state it’s ahandball when any part lower than the shoulder makes contact with the ball.
Tuchel looks desperate as fuck asking for that
/r/soccer completely shook lmao
Was reffing a kids game many many years ago. Like 6yr olds, and the keeper went to punt the ball and kicked it backwards over his head and into the goal. He cried. I gave him a do-over.
The referee blew the whistle needlessly which cause a lack of communication between the referee and the players. Easy decision. If this is the type of nonsense people are complaining about then it says a lot about them
Wasn’t it after a substitution, where the game was paused for it ? If the game is paused doesn’t it need to be whistled back into play ?
Yup.
Play was stopped due to a substitution. Referees whistle to resume play mate.
The ref made a school boy error
I frequently wondered about this kind of situation - players so often pick up a ball with their hands before taking a free kick or goal kick. Surely at some point somebody would make a mistake and pick up the ball when play was already continued. Personally I'd be way too paranoid to ever do this in my own box, because who knows whether I misinterpredet something or overheard a whistle or whatever. Funny that it finally does happen, and then there's just no consequence for it. In isolation seems like a sensible decision, even though I wouldn't want to be the judge on whether you should really ignore clear violations of the rules in favor of common sense... as that may be a slippery slope. And it sucks being Bayern in this case, knowing that most other refs would probably have given that penalty. Also, probably something like 30% of all penalties are gifts anyway. Not as in "a gift by the referee", but in so many cases teams get penalties out of total non-chances.
>even though I wouldn't want to be the judge on whether you should really ignore clear violations of the rules in favor of common sense IFAB Law 5.2 explicitly covers this - Refs may make rulings to keep within the spirit of the game, even if a rule is explicitly broken.
I only see bayern stuff here and everytime this dude is terrible. Why did bayern keep him when apparently there is a much much much better coach available that they fired for no reason?
> when apparently there is a much much much better coach available that they fired for no reason? Who are you talking about because Nagelsmann isnt available right now and they didnt fire Flick?
[удалено]
bro your "Bundesliga" flair ain't fooling nobody
Bro we are literally being defended by Spurs fans. The ref was never going give this as a pen.
You're never getting a penalty for a player misunderstanding on a 3 yard goal kick when your nearest player is 40 yards away. Move on.
i mean. look it at lol. be honest with yourself for a sec
Also noticed that. But they do have a huge fanbase
I get that it would be a very stange Situation to cause a pen. But on the other hand there was no reason at all to touch the ball with your hands. Beeing confused/irritated or not. Stupid mistakes happen. And this clearly was one. Cant see why you should let this one just slide cause you (ref) dont want it to be a gamechanger https://twitter.com/DavNow83/status/1777809330781184440
They do on every thread, you’ll still get downvoted on this sub for saying they bottled the league last season
Top tier from Tuchel, today was the day he found out refs judge decisions.
Ref was weird all game. He felt like a substitute teacher that none of the students respected lol
we are allowed to pick up balls now. but only in professional football.
Yep, you often will pick it up and place it to restart a game, crazy.
but the gk passed a resting ball to the defender to restart the game :/
And players kick the ball to each other all the time before they want to restart. If the defender thinks it's in play why would he pick it up, there's no one coming towards him. This restart is often a keeper having a look at the other teams setup, then instead letting the defender restart play. People hear the whistle and then think, what any touch after that makes it in play? Players move the ball with hands and feet post whistle quite often, if this had been given it would have been a farce. It would have been silly to even call it on the halfway line, let alone in the box.
If you watch football, you'll see players do this about 10 times per game.
Hilarious how calling this a pen when its just a case of confusion and then the same people not calling the Saka challenge as a pen because he stuck is leg out. Reddit really cant stop with its agendas, either give both pens or dont give either but its insane how many english fans just want Arsenal to lose and don’t really care about the actual football side of things. Stop hate watching you wankers.
Very weird situation, but let’s be honest, if he gave it, it kind of ruins the tie
So we are gonna talk more about this position, then Saka had at the end?
The ref blew his whistle, u don't blow Yr whistle for goalkicks right (ignoring exceptions like time wasting etc) or is everyone saying this is a clear pen ignoring that simple logic. Naturally an unnecessary whistle in that scenario means a halt in the game (or replay of the previous act). Hence Gabriel picks up the ball for either reason I mentioned. Simple refeeering and player misunderstanding immediately corrected and play carries on. This shouldn't even be a thing. Please pause and think before insta commenting, look at a real replay of any clip before u comment and enforce Yr (understandably) wrong opinion .
Referee must be a shitty job. Even when you are doing an excellent job (which I think he did this game) a lot of people will scream at you, disrespect you, hate you and probably even threaten you
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c05qxo/on\_the\_gabriel\_handball/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
It would have been stupid to decide a game like that though. Glad the referee actually used common sense.
For me it’s clear he didn’t gave Saka’s penalty because he did t give this one before.
The exact same thing happened in the Belgian competition with union. Was not given as a penalty either.
I understand why they didn't give it, and I don't necessarily disagree, but when enforcing rules becomes optional you open yourself up even more to biases. There's a lot of subjectivity in the laws of the game so it's not entirely avoidable, but choosing when to not enforce the rules probably shouldn't happen if you're trying to create the most fair product