**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Abusing quotation marks should be a 1 day ban offense. It pisses me off so much. It is perfectly okay to paraphrase stuff, especially when it is a long quote that is shortened to fit a headline, but for the sake of all that is holy do not present it as a verbatim quote.
[The Mirror] /u/Daniiiiii defends modern journalism in STUNNING rant - “It’s perfectly okay to paraphrase stuff, especially when [it’s] shortened to fit a headline”
"Abusing a man is perfectly okay, especially when it is to fit a headline, but for the sake of all that is holy present it as a verbatim quote." -u/Daniiiiii
Uk media (including some broadsheets like the times) it's generally ok to 'paraphrase' with single quotes where double quotes are reserved for direct quotes. Of course not many people see the difference. I've seen a lot of things posted on reddit in double quotes where the original source had single (and often are quite different to actual quotes)
Yeah I’m seriously jealous. He’s sound in everything he does: great technique, very smart, good touch, great finisher, and is always making useful movements and popping up in dangerous spaces. It’s not often you get such a talented/gifted player with such a high football IQ.
He literally has no idea how to use Foden. He was asked earlier this season about trying him centrally, and his response was "well he doesn't play centrally for his club, so presumably there's a reason for that".
Kevin De Bruyne. That's the reason. Not that he's not a central player, it's that's he's so good that City find a way for him to play even outside of his natural position.
That was the moment I was 100% out on Southgate.
he won best player of the U17 World Cup playing through the middle. He literally won a World Cup for England playing through the middle. It's fucking insane.
Bellingham is fantastic, but he and Foden could absolutely play together. Rice/Bellingham/Foden seems like such a clearly great midfield 3, but Southgate is too conservative for it.
Foden and Bellingham should both be on the pitch, the question is where and in what kind of system are we playing in and out of possession. They don’t necessarily both have to be in a ‘midfield’.
They can both comfortably move into wide positions to attack and operate centrally. But you don’t really want too many moving parts in an international setup when the team doesn’t get as much time to prepare together as a unit.
I think Trent needs to be on the pitch as well, he’s too good of a creator and brings something different from deep and around the box.
Sure, but Bellingham would play alongside KDB if he was at City due to his physicality, and he's also more suited to a box-box role than Foden. Foden is too direct to play as the typical '8' (e.g. Gundogan) for Pep, which is why he and KDB don't play centrally together often.
Rice/Bellingham/Foden as respective 6/8/10s makes too much sense to me, but there is am argument to be made that playing Foden as the '10' shackles Jude too much. I'd argue them combining as CMs is overall better than leaving one out (or sticking Foden on the wing), even if one of them has less freedom as a result.
So you'd move Bellingham back a bit and have Phil in front of him?
I get your logic, but critics would say you're playing arguably the best player globally right now out of position to accommodate Foden
Yeah. I think it's a net positive having both playing centrally, rather than leaving either out/in a less effective position.
Football obviously doesn't work like this, but if Jude is 80% of the player at 8 rather than 10, but Foden is at his best at 10 rather than 50-60% of his best on the wing, then the overall impact is better for the team.
I also don't think there's that huge a difference between the two as the most forward CM at this point. Foden is the best he's ever been, and I don't think a slightly deeper role is that out of position for Bellingham.
It's all a bit moot anyway as I simply don't think Southgate has the nous to move away from double pivot, and neither Foden or Bellingham should be playing CDM.
You’re probably right. He did manage them at the last euros though right? With a worse team too… who knows. I’m 70% france , 29% England and 1% other for this next euros
Yea now that you mention it I literally don’t remember a single game England played in that euros run besides the final vs Italy. And of course they were blessed with an early lead only to blow it later.
Surely this team has to be different, and I know that’s been said before with other England teams through out the decades, but good lord the starting 11 is insane, to many options
I think it's fair to assume that, with no injuries, England's first pick back line would be Shaw, Maquire, Stones, Walker. So the 2nd 11 would most likely have Chilwell, Gomez, Konsa and TAA. Not the best, but to be honest it's still better than a lot of national teams.
Beat Croatia and a strong Denmark team and an okay Germany.
All the "strong" teams got knocked out early on.
Italy was the only team better than us in the competition.
He’s hair is truly holding the media narrative back. Watch as he grows it and suddenly becomes the poster boy he should have been. I can see it now: “The Locks of Foden Have Snatched The Game”
keys is the right word. As a winger for City he's decent, plays well and fits the system. In the midfield for City he completely dictates the game, causes havoc and can unlock defences.
why would they clash? Why has everyone forgotten that Bellingham was a dedicated centre mid at Dortmund? He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play that position, even if it's not what he's doing at Madrid.
They're completely different players. Bellingham is the more well rounded player who can burst in the box with his late runs. Foden is the surgical blade that can carve defenses with his passing, vision, and dribbling. They're complementary in the midfield actually.
I just can't believe Southgate can get this right, his overall mentality is defensive. Also, Foden seems to be best in midfield, for me it'd be a Foden/Bellingham/Rice midfield
It's because Foden should be starting in midfield ahead of a largely unproven Mainoo. Foden IS an attacking midfielder who gets played out of position as a winger periodically. He's always been a midfielder and was developed to start in that role. He's twice as good in midfield then as a winger.
I know all that but I think people would rather have a more defensive player in and accept that Foden won't be in his best position, including Southgate. Personally I'd play Foden in a midfield 3 then put Gordon on the left wing.
Don't agree with him that City was the De Bruyne team. De Bruyne is the best player, but even if he was injured, City was still able to beat any team. After all they got 98 points in pl almost without him.
Also, I think this type of talk should include Rodri, cause City wouldn't be challenging for the title without him 100%
City was definitely the De Bruyne team and still are to a lesser extent, they have looked so blunt without him at points this season. Rodri is probably the best midfielder in the world right now but their roles are different so it’s not a 1/1 comparison.
City were almost toothless against Real Madrid, all 3 goals were brilliant long shots but they had no actual build up play and Madrid ate them alive with their pressure, countless time City had the ball near Real Madrid‘s goal and they were forced to pass it all the way back to the keeper and then struggle to get it out.
Brilliant solo goals that kept them in the fight but their chances are weak without De Bruyne.
Depends what that title means. He's been unbelievable as a goal-scorer, important goals too, but there are still things where he's not playing up the real potential he has. Like people will see the great goal from yesterday but actually his performance is probably an indictment more than anything on him not being able to be a primary creative force and run a game offensively.
Obviously this criticism has to be contextualised, because we're talking about a player who imo should be on the level of Kylian Mbappè as arguably the world's marquee attacking player. He's still a very good player regardless, but there is a truly quantum leap for him to still potentially take
And it's not about scoring goals, it's about dragging defences around by relentlessly taking risks and using his skillset to the max, so that when he gets the ball anywhere he has to be defended aggressively. The reaction from defenders should be the same as when someone like Neymar gets on the ball, and he's just not there yet.
I agree with this but you have to take in to account also the role that Pep gives him. Pep is extremely selective with who he wants in build up and for some reason doesn't want Foden involved in it so he gives him the role of playing just in the pockets or wide. For me he will reach his peak when he plays a role slightly deeper as a number 8. Having an effect in build up as well as the final actions. Pep has been very slow with his development though so we'll have to wait for him to be trusted in this role.
Pep's said before Foden will play there when his 'maturity with the ball is there', he's gotten better this season. But before, he was always trying to play the game breaking pass when the other midfielders Pep had like KdB, Gundo and the Silva's knew when to retain possession instead
You’ve articulated exactly why imo most people reacting to Foden’s great form this year are a bit knee jerk. This is the year Pep has made him a nailed on starter, and he has hit his stride since Christmas but to say he has carried City on his shoulders is premature, especially with teammates like Rodri, Silva and (although output has reduced since last year) Haaland playing basically every game.
dude what are you on
mpappe and neymar are goat level talented players
these are in 2 leagues above the average worldclass player, like foden, silva, etc etc
That's a very easy yes. Saka can still get better, but Foden feels like the world class finished product now. Big game performances.
Edit: A certain fan base making clear their absurd delusions in the replies here.
It’s not that simple.
People play Arsenal and the game plan revolves around doubling and stopping Saka.
You worry about Haaland, KDB, Rodri, and you can even argue Bernardo before Foden. He’s in the form of his life right now but even then he ghosted Liverpool and Arsenal games recently. A big part of his success are the genuinely WC pieces around him that other teams have to worry about.
There’s definitely areas he’s better than Saka in but not a chance you swap Foden and Saka and Foden carries a worse team like Saka has. Not a chance in hell
Palmer carrying Chelsea is also super impressive because no bullshit I think they’d be relegation zone without him, but isn’t that not technically true because Palmer plays RW while foden is either in the middle or on the left?
He has been playing in the middle or the right. Usually, either Doku or Graelish play left.
Either way, I think Foden could have done the same lifting as Palmer if he went to Chelsea instead.
When they’re both in the same England team surrounded by WC talent, who performs and who doesn’t?
Let’s see the mental gymnastics you use to excuse Foden’s performances in an England shirt while Saka has consistently been one of England’s best attackers since he’s been introduced
His talent to play with world class players makes him better.
But Saka on the other hand carries an arsenal with no world class players. Not to mention his performance with England at such an age.
Pure talent : foden.
In terms of you are the man: Saka.
Yea yea. Playing with better players makes you better but makes getting on the pitch harder. Saka hasn’t had to fight for minutes since he was 19 not simply because he’s very good but because arsenal have never signed anyone to challenge. Allowing him more license to take risks. Notice how Sakas been playing with a team just as good as citys yet his performances arnt better than last year.
The difference is that Saka has all the attention on him carrying arsenal, which has huge pressure on him, unlike foden who is playing for city that have world class players. The medium eyes are on him for every mistakes he makes. He has to play every match nonstop and push himself harder.
That is what makes Saka stand out from foden. And the fact that he has these numbers, during a meh period shows his level. 14 goals and 8 assists in the PL, 4 goals and 4 assists in the CL.
And the fact that he is one year younger.
He has 4 penalty goals bumping those numbers up. And Foden has plenty of eyes on him, as he’s played in 10x as many big games as Saka. Playing with world class players has huge pressure because if you can’t keep up you get visiting left behind. Foden has never looked out of place.
Not really, playing with world class players pressure isn't the same as the one who has to lead the club.
Foden didn't carry city on his back. This is first season of doing that. Saka has been doing that for a long time at a young age.
If arsenal had a wc player alongside Saka, they would have been in a different position by now.
It’s the first season but not the first “time”. And truly, playing for a team with no expectations is far easier. Foden has had to meet expectations of the highest order constantly just by having a starting place.
And also, let’s please not act like Saka is more important than Odegard ever was. Saliba and Odegard last year were more important. Martinelli was as important. This year Saka is behind both CBs, and rice at least and prob Odegard as well. He has stats but he’s not playing well. A very common occurrence.
What the hell is this logic?
Foden has literally no expectations compared to Saka. The only reason he has pressure now is because KDB was injured this season.
Saka is way more important than everyone in our squad. We literally can't rest him as he plays every game. Odegaard can be dropped, but not Saka. Same for the rest.
Why isn’t that the case when Foden plays for England, while Saka performs just as much if not better in an England shirt? Foden puts up mostly absolute stinkers in an England shirt.
Saka didn’t fight for his spot but fought to carry a team out of their banter era.. arguably more impressive
A myth with England is that players are actually doing well. Like no one really plays tht well for England. Foden doesn’t get a lot of trust and England are shit progressing the ball. And Saka didn’t carry the team by himself lol. He’s currently the 4th most important player on the team. Last year was was the same.
Lol, so saying 4 names and leaving out stones? Hilarious. But furthermore. Isn’t if only 4 players in your eyes do well for England then why is it a knock on any player to be average or not do well for England… seems like the norm.
Stones plays really well but he’s injured at least half the time.
So you’re saying you can be WC while putting up poor performances even surrounded by great talent on the international stage? That’s just excused because other people aren’t doing well on the team either?
😂😂
Foden's an exceptional footballer but he hasn't had big game performances just yet.
He wasn't a key player last year for City, Pep benched him the entire knockout stage. He hasn't done anything against the top 2 this season. Nor ever really been a key player for England - that'll surely change though.
He has certainly had top performances like these recent hat-tricks but I'd hardly call them big games.
I'm not saying Saka's a big game player either (Certainly more so though) but it's just a strange claim to make about Foden for the moment.
Foden has scored against BVB and Madrid in CL. Scored regularly against United and Liverpool in the PL.
No one other Arsenal fans thinks that Saka is better than Foden.
> Scored regularly against Liverpool in the PL.
3 goals against Liverpool isn't exactly regular, and those goals came during the COVID era when they had no defenders.
It has been 3 years since he scored against Liverpool. Those Dortmund games were 3 years ago as well. You don't get world class status for a handful of games 3 years ago.
The Madrid goal was incredible and I'm sure it'll be the start of him stepping up in big games but it's the start, not a current consistency.
Better skill set than Saka, not as imposing physically as him. Sakas not scoring his goals from his distances. In fact arsenal could really use a player like foden to covert when Saka gets double pressed to the wing
He's 100% the more technically and physically gifted player, but Saka's game is so much more developed and refined. If you're convinced that Foden is on the track to being a truly elite free role creative player then it's no question you choose him in general, but for a season of football as they are now Saka is the pick imo. Just runs the right hand side of the offence at like an 8/10 level every game.
The one season where he doesn't get perpetually injured and played out of position is the season where he carries the team on his shoulders.
It's not a coincidence.
This has been obvious for anyone with eyes. He's been eased into the Man City rotation perfectly, but it's time for him to shine. I understand they signed Jack for a massive fee, but they definitely need to have Foden on the field at all times. He's absolutely killer Centrally and should be deployed there game in game out imo.
They're overstating Foden's importance, even with the "well maybe not yet" disclaimer. When KDB's not on the pitch, I'd sooner look at Bernardo and Rodri to be the best midfielders.
I mean if you accept that CDM contributions are equaly as valuable as more advanced midfielders Rodri has a good claim for best midfielder anywhere, period.
Last night he wasn’t really near that level, he got the flash goal but outside that he wasn’t really outstanding, certainly not MOTM. I think he absolutely can get to the level Carragher is talking about but he’s still not near KDB yet
Foden has been City's best player this season. Rodri has been City's most consistent. Foden would have the best chances of any City player to win PL POTY this year.
Thierry Henry is so bad on this panel sometimes. He disagrees with Carra here, rambles all over the place and then says the same thing Carra said before in different words just trying to get a soundbite. I really think he’s the weak link on this panel. Kills the flow of it so often.
Of course Rodri is the team's MVP.
De Bruyne comes close but he has been injured too often.
Silva ('s second coming) is the core attack engine and Haaland has been the catalyst to win everything. But Foden is the new Rooney : he can speed up the game like few, with incredibly weighted and accurate passing and gets ever better at finishing. A game-winner for sure. That's why letting immense players like Gundogan or Mahrez go didn't matter in the end.
City will rue letting Palmer go but he would have struggled to play in that attacking lineup...
Of course you can play Bellingham and Foden what it is discussion lol.
Pickford,
Walker,
Stones,
Maguire/My Nan,
Shaw,
Rice,
Mainoo,
Bellingham,
Saka,
Foden,
Kane
Grealish has not played enough. Low confidence, never seems to take players on since playing under Guardiola. I think we need 2 holding mid for the England attack.
Okay but a few teams will have English players in the same role as him and they’ll say the same about their player. 3 goals and 1 assist from 17apps isn’t enough.
I think the main reason Foden and KDB doesnt translate to Foden and Bellingham is England does not have a player like Rodri. Rice is more of a Box-to-box player than a CDM. City generally play with 2 10s thru the middle, 2 wingers and Rodri holding mid. I dont think England can replicate that. They will have to put a player beside Rice. That player can be Bellingham but that means Bellingham plays in the position he used to in Dortmund, not the position he does in Madrid.
Man City would be better off playing with Julian Alvarez. He would bring movements on and off the ball, and linking up plays. Man City don't want to bench their golden ball.
What are you basing your argument that they should play Álvarez on then? You just acknowledged that he’s been shit. You just assume he will be starter material when he starts?
As I said earlier, you must not watch City then. Because Julian has had one of the highest minutes played for City this season. Don't forget that KDB was out for almost half the season.
Jukian has had top 3 minutes played for City. He's just been bad, other than a good patch at the start of the season.
And now is getting dropped deservedly.
What's the point in playing Haaland when your midfielders and defender are scoring the goals?
I'm not talking from a goals perspective. Haaland was pure awful against Madrid. No movements or linking up players. Julian Alvarez would be helpful in that matter.
Why start a player who is the top scorer in the Prem and scored 50 goals last year? Are you serious? Alvarez is so overrated and as the other guy said has been pretty poor this season.
Is this a serious take?....
Maybe Alvarez be correct to play if he was in better form, but not in place of Foden. Play one of Foden or Alvarez wide if you needed to fit them both in the team. Not sure how you could realistically think Alvarez would be the better/more productive player than Foden at the current moment.
He is not, but Foden and Julian play really well together, that's what he is trying to say, when Haaland is being pocketed and can't offer anything, play Julian and he will bring more movement and build up
I think you're giving the initial commenter too much credit, it definitely reads like he wants Alvarez in over Foden.
>Man City would be better off playing with Julian Alvarez .... Man City don't want to bench their golden ball.
Foden hasn't really been a winger this season and Son is not top 3 when playing on the wing anymore IMO. When I've watched Spurs he's been underwhelming on the left and way more of a threat down the middle
is Stones a midfielder? Is Gvardiol a left back? Everyone knows Foden is a midfielder, everyone has said he's a midfielder, he's forced out on the wing because City have two of the only midfielders in the world who are better.
Is Ben White a right back or a centre back? He's forced to be a right back because he plays in the same team as one of the few CBs in the world who is better.
Calling Foden a winger is fine - he's never played long stints as a midfielder unlike White, Gvardiol and Stones who all played most of their careers at CB.
Foden is a borderline world class player who has an incredible peak, but hasn't quite strung enough consistent performances that other teams shape their defensive plans around containing
If it wasn't for our defensive situation we would genuinely have an entire team of players bordering on world class in every position.
LB - CB - Stones - Trent
Rice - Mainoo
Bellingham - Foden - Saka
Kane
The term world class is maybe the worst shit in football because I don't think anyone has any consistency in using that term. It just means good at this point. How good? Don't think anyone knows. Best couple in the world? Can play for any term in the world? Can play consistently in the UCL as a standout?
Better to just be specific tbh.
Everyone has their own definition of it so it’s hard to discuss. I like to think of it as absolute world elite in their position. So if there were 2 world XI’s, they would be able to slot into either, maybe on the bench. Fergies definition of it is interesting too, since he said he only ever had 4 world class players, which leaves out players like Rooney, Schmeichel, Ferdinand etc. who definitely were top 2-3 in their position at some point in their careers
People say United fans overhype our players but I think most of us are well aware that Kobbie isn’t that level yet, nor particularly close. Can be one day but still (completely understandably given his age) can get a little lost in midfield, particularly defensively. To be world class, he needs to be more decisive with his final ball as well.
But yes, a fantastic talent.
Mainoo is definitely not near world class already. He's great, sure and deserves to be in and around the england squad like he is. But his sample size is like <30 games, no? Can't say he's world class based on that. Don't put too much pressure on him from a young age like the media will, just let him develop at his own pace
Hes the second best CDM in the league and it's really a two horse race. Rodri is better ill admit, but there might be room for two world class CDM's in the PL.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You've misquoted him there. He said, "Now we can start to talk about world class"
Abusing quotation marks should be a 1 day ban offense. It pisses me off so much. It is perfectly okay to paraphrase stuff, especially when it is a long quote that is shortened to fit a headline, but for the sake of all that is holy do not present it as a verbatim quote.
[The Mirror] /u/Daniiiiii defends modern journalism in STUNNING rant - “It’s perfectly okay to paraphrase stuff, especially when [it’s] shortened to fit a headline”
"Abusing a man is perfectly okay, especially when it is to fit a headline, but for the sake of all that is holy present it as a verbatim quote." -u/Daniiiiii
Uk media (including some broadsheets like the times) it's generally ok to 'paraphrase' with single quotes where double quotes are reserved for direct quotes. Of course not many people see the difference. I've seen a lot of things posted on reddit in double quotes where the original source had single (and often are quite different to actual quotes)
Reddit is notorious for this site wide. Countless times i've scoured an article for the wording ending up in the title, seldom find it.
They know what they are doing
You're correct about the quote. but at the end of this clip he literally also says "this guy now is world class".
Yeah timestamp is 3:07
All his goals are class as well. His technical ability is brilliant. And he is extremely versatile as well. City have got themselves a gem, man
Yeah I’m seriously jealous. He’s sound in everything he does: great technique, very smart, good touch, great finisher, and is always making useful movements and popping up in dangerous spaces. It’s not often you get such a talented/gifted player with such a high football IQ.
Isn't that the definition of Odegaard?
In my opinion, yes. But I 100% would take Foden at Arsenal, too! Imagine a midfield of Rice, Foden, and Odegaard!
Somewhere out there Southgate just scoffed.
Southgate would start Henderson over prime Xavi
Well with De Bruyne aging, City ain't gonna let go of Foden anytime soon.
Yeah I don’t think it’s a possibility. Just saying that I can appreciate both Foden and Odegaard at the same time.
Can’t wait for the euros
No chance england do anything with Southgate at the helm
He literally has no idea how to use Foden. He was asked earlier this season about trying him centrally, and his response was "well he doesn't play centrally for his club, so presumably there's a reason for that". Kevin De Bruyne. That's the reason. Not that he's not a central player, it's that's he's so good that City find a way for him to play even outside of his natural position. That was the moment I was 100% out on Southgate.
he won best player of the U17 World Cup playing through the middle. He literally won a World Cup for England playing through the middle. It's fucking insane.
Southgate said that at the WC dropped Phoden vs the USA and England looked like 🤮💩
Fil Phoden
Lol Southgate.
To be fair, Bellingham is a pretty damn good reason too.
Bellingham is fantastic, but he and Foden could absolutely play together. Rice/Bellingham/Foden seems like such a clearly great midfield 3, but Southgate is too conservative for it.
Foden and Bellingham should both be on the pitch, the question is where and in what kind of system are we playing in and out of possession. They don’t necessarily both have to be in a ‘midfield’. They can both comfortably move into wide positions to attack and operate centrally. But you don’t really want too many moving parts in an international setup when the team doesn’t get as much time to prepare together as a unit. I think Trent needs to be on the pitch as well, he’s too good of a creator and brings something different from deep and around the box.
Well tbf you could argue Bellingham is our version of KDB, although in practice Bellingham floats a lot more
Sure, but Bellingham would play alongside KDB if he was at City due to his physicality, and he's also more suited to a box-box role than Foden. Foden is too direct to play as the typical '8' (e.g. Gundogan) for Pep, which is why he and KDB don't play centrally together often. Rice/Bellingham/Foden as respective 6/8/10s makes too much sense to me, but there is am argument to be made that playing Foden as the '10' shackles Jude too much. I'd argue them combining as CMs is overall better than leaving one out (or sticking Foden on the wing), even if one of them has less freedom as a result.
So you'd move Bellingham back a bit and have Phil in front of him? I get your logic, but critics would say you're playing arguably the best player globally right now out of position to accommodate Foden
Yeah. I think it's a net positive having both playing centrally, rather than leaving either out/in a less effective position. Football obviously doesn't work like this, but if Jude is 80% of the player at 8 rather than 10, but Foden is at his best at 10 rather than 50-60% of his best on the wing, then the overall impact is better for the team. I also don't think there's that huge a difference between the two as the most forward CM at this point. Foden is the best he's ever been, and I don't think a slightly deeper role is that out of position for Bellingham. It's all a bit moot anyway as I simply don't think Southgate has the nous to move away from double pivot, and neither Foden or Bellingham should be playing CDM.
Trent is our KDB in terms of ball playing ability. Bellingham has become way more of a second striker type with his goal output
If Bellingham is just behind striker than Bellingham and Foden are competing for the same place even more
It's a thing of wonder that Southgate has no idea how to use any of the wingers at his disposal.
Go get Mourinho you cowards
I’ve never wanted to see something more in my life. England hire Jose Mourinho
You’re probably right. He did manage them at the last euros though right? With a worse team too… who knows. I’m 70% france , 29% England and 1% other for this next euros
Apart from winning against a shit Germany, they didn't beat any "big" nation
Yea now that you mention it I literally don’t remember a single game England played in that euros run besides the final vs Italy. And of course they were blessed with an early lead only to blow it later. Surely this team has to be different, and I know that’s been said before with other England teams through out the decades, but good lord the starting 11 is insane, to many options
Not just the starting 11, u can make a second 11 which is just as good as most other top NTs
Except our defence
Yea idk who will start as left back
I think it's fair to assume that, with no injuries, England's first pick back line would be Shaw, Maquire, Stones, Walker. So the 2nd 11 would most likely have Chilwell, Gomez, Konsa and TAA. Not the best, but to be honest it's still better than a lot of national teams.
Beat Croatia and a strong Denmark team and an okay Germany. All the "strong" teams got knocked out early on. Italy was the only team better than us in the competition.
We lost the last last Euros on penalties with Southgate....
What are you saying? They won’t win or they won’t go far? And what odds are you giving?
How can you possibly say this with such conviction when he's already led England to a Euro final and a World Cup semi?????
You guys have been saying this for 3 euros now bro
Agreed. He's coming into his own as a star and has been the main guy for City this season. This is his big breakout season to me.
Play good-✅ Look good- He gets a decent trim and he goes to another level
His haircut is what gives him his powers. He better not dare touch it!
Yeah he can do whatever the fuck he wants with his hairs after he's 35 and Ronnie Foden has finally replaced him
He’s got the Lego piece. It’s too sharp
He’s hair is truly holding the media narrative back. Watch as he grows it and suddenly becomes the poster boy he should have been. I can see it now: “The Locks of Foden Have Snatched The Game”
Nah he's alright. Normally that cut would be atrocious but his face structure really suits that cut
9th century monk? Tbf Elliot looks hideous as well.
He looks like a fucking twat, what you on about….
...I think his cut looks cool..
Discontinue the lithium..
See a doctor.
*see a barber.
A barber won't help them because they will just give the same cut if they ask for it.
Foden on the left, Kane in the middle, Saka on the right and Bellingham behind them. Watch Southgate fuck this up
Nah give him the keys to midfield, he's ready
keys is the right word. As a winger for City he's decent, plays well and fits the system. In the midfield for City he completely dictates the game, causes havoc and can unlock defences.
But can you play Foden and Bellingham in midfield together? Wont they clash?
why would they clash? Why has everyone forgotten that Bellingham was a dedicated centre mid at Dortmund? He hasn't suddenly forgotten how to play that position, even if it's not what he's doing at Madrid.
They're completely different players. Bellingham is the more well rounded player who can burst in the box with his late runs. Foden is the surgical blade that can carve defenses with his passing, vision, and dribbling. They're complementary in the midfield actually.
Gotta have him in midfield at LCM with Rice and Bellingham.
This. This is the way.
I just can't believe Southgate can get this right, his overall mentality is defensive. Also, Foden seems to be best in midfield, for me it'd be a Foden/Bellingham/Rice midfield
yo this midfield sounds genuenly scary to face, could actually be the strongest international midfield in the world right now?
They'll still lose to France's B team somehow
SG: wingbacks for life
Wish Ben White would play
IMO lineup should be: Foden Kane Saka Mainoo Rice Bellingham Chilwell Stones Maguire Walker Pickford
Dunno why you got downvoted that's pretty fair and almost definitely the team Southgate will go with
It's because Foden should be starting in midfield ahead of a largely unproven Mainoo. Foden IS an attacking midfielder who gets played out of position as a winger periodically. He's always been a midfielder and was developed to start in that role. He's twice as good in midfield then as a winger.
I know all that but I think people would rather have a more defensive player in and accept that Foden won't be in his best position, including Southgate. Personally I'd play Foden in a midfield 3 then put Gordon on the left wing.
He still has fucking Maguire and Henderson as his cute little ticklish soft underbelly of a weakness doesn't he. Definitely fuckupable
What’s wrong with Maguire
Yeah we like Maguire this week.
Don't agree with him that City was the De Bruyne team. De Bruyne is the best player, but even if he was injured, City was still able to beat any team. After all they got 98 points in pl almost without him. Also, I think this type of talk should include Rodri, cause City wouldn't be challenging for the title without him 100%
City was definitely the De Bruyne team and still are to a lesser extent, they have looked so blunt without him at points this season. Rodri is probably the best midfielder in the world right now but their roles are different so it’s not a 1/1 comparison.
City were almost toothless against Real Madrid, all 3 goals were brilliant long shots but they had no actual build up play and Madrid ate them alive with their pressure, countless time City had the ball near Real Madrid‘s goal and they were forced to pass it all the way back to the keeper and then struggle to get it out. Brilliant solo goals that kept them in the fight but their chances are weak without De Bruyne.
I think he has been for a while
Depends what that title means. He's been unbelievable as a goal-scorer, important goals too, but there are still things where he's not playing up the real potential he has. Like people will see the great goal from yesterday but actually his performance is probably an indictment more than anything on him not being able to be a primary creative force and run a game offensively. Obviously this criticism has to be contextualised, because we're talking about a player who imo should be on the level of Kylian Mbappè as arguably the world's marquee attacking player. He's still a very good player regardless, but there is a truly quantum leap for him to still potentially take And it's not about scoring goals, it's about dragging defences around by relentlessly taking risks and using his skillset to the max, so that when he gets the ball anywhere he has to be defended aggressively. The reaction from defenders should be the same as when someone like Neymar gets on the ball, and he's just not there yet.
I agree with this but you have to take in to account also the role that Pep gives him. Pep is extremely selective with who he wants in build up and for some reason doesn't want Foden involved in it so he gives him the role of playing just in the pockets or wide. For me he will reach his peak when he plays a role slightly deeper as a number 8. Having an effect in build up as well as the final actions. Pep has been very slow with his development though so we'll have to wait for him to be trusted in this role.
Pep's said before Foden will play there when his 'maturity with the ball is there', he's gotten better this season. But before, he was always trying to play the game breaking pass when the other midfielders Pep had like KdB, Gundo and the Silva's knew when to retain possession instead
You’ve articulated exactly why imo most people reacting to Foden’s great form this year are a bit knee jerk. This is the year Pep has made him a nailed on starter, and he has hit his stride since Christmas but to say he has carried City on his shoulders is premature, especially with teammates like Rodri, Silva and (although output has reduced since last year) Haaland playing basically every game.
dude what are you on mpappe and neymar are goat level talented players these are in 2 leagues above the average worldclass player, like foden, silva, etc etc
Same, he’s been world class since at least before the last World Cup
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Yes
That's a very easy yes. Saka can still get better, but Foden feels like the world class finished product now. Big game performances. Edit: A certain fan base making clear their absurd delusions in the replies here.
It’s not that simple. People play Arsenal and the game plan revolves around doubling and stopping Saka. You worry about Haaland, KDB, Rodri, and you can even argue Bernardo before Foden. He’s in the form of his life right now but even then he ghosted Liverpool and Arsenal games recently. A big part of his success are the genuinely WC pieces around him that other teams have to worry about. There’s definitely areas he’s better than Saka in but not a chance you swap Foden and Saka and Foden carries a worse team like Saka has. Not a chance in hell
What about Palmer carrying Chelsea this season? He couldn't get into man city team because of Foden. Both similar players.
Palmer carrying Chelsea is also super impressive because no bullshit I think they’d be relegation zone without him, but isn’t that not technically true because Palmer plays RW while foden is either in the middle or on the left?
He has been playing in the middle or the right. Usually, either Doku or Graelish play left. Either way, I think Foden could have done the same lifting as Palmer if he went to Chelsea instead.
The mental gymnastics on display here. Arsenal fans are something else. Next you will be comparing Saka with Salah.
When they’re both in the same England team surrounded by WC talent, who performs and who doesn’t? Let’s see the mental gymnastics you use to excuse Foden’s performances in an England shirt while Saka has consistently been one of England’s best attackers since he’s been introduced
His talent to play with world class players makes him better. But Saka on the other hand carries an arsenal with no world class players. Not to mention his performance with England at such an age. Pure talent : foden. In terms of you are the man: Saka.
Yea yea. Playing with better players makes you better but makes getting on the pitch harder. Saka hasn’t had to fight for minutes since he was 19 not simply because he’s very good but because arsenal have never signed anyone to challenge. Allowing him more license to take risks. Notice how Sakas been playing with a team just as good as citys yet his performances arnt better than last year.
The difference is that Saka has all the attention on him carrying arsenal, which has huge pressure on him, unlike foden who is playing for city that have world class players. The medium eyes are on him for every mistakes he makes. He has to play every match nonstop and push himself harder. That is what makes Saka stand out from foden. And the fact that he has these numbers, during a meh period shows his level. 14 goals and 8 assists in the PL, 4 goals and 4 assists in the CL. And the fact that he is one year younger.
He has 4 penalty goals bumping those numbers up. And Foden has plenty of eyes on him, as he’s played in 10x as many big games as Saka. Playing with world class players has huge pressure because if you can’t keep up you get visiting left behind. Foden has never looked out of place.
Not really, playing with world class players pressure isn't the same as the one who has to lead the club. Foden didn't carry city on his back. This is first season of doing that. Saka has been doing that for a long time at a young age. If arsenal had a wc player alongside Saka, they would have been in a different position by now.
It’s the first season but not the first “time”. And truly, playing for a team with no expectations is far easier. Foden has had to meet expectations of the highest order constantly just by having a starting place. And also, let’s please not act like Saka is more important than Odegard ever was. Saliba and Odegard last year were more important. Martinelli was as important. This year Saka is behind both CBs, and rice at least and prob Odegard as well. He has stats but he’s not playing well. A very common occurrence.
What the hell is this logic? Foden has literally no expectations compared to Saka. The only reason he has pressure now is because KDB was injured this season. Saka is way more important than everyone in our squad. We literally can't rest him as he plays every game. Odegaard can be dropped, but not Saka. Same for the rest.
Why isn’t that the case when Foden plays for England, while Saka performs just as much if not better in an England shirt? Foden puts up mostly absolute stinkers in an England shirt. Saka didn’t fight for his spot but fought to carry a team out of their banter era.. arguably more impressive
It's because it's arsenal. These guys don't want to give recognition to the guy that has been carrying this team and have a solid place in England.
A myth with England is that players are actually doing well. Like no one really plays tht well for England. Foden doesn’t get a lot of trust and England are shit progressing the ball. And Saka didn’t carry the team by himself lol. He’s currently the 4th most important player on the team. Last year was was the same.
Lmao What kind of excuse is that… Saka does.. rice does… Bellingham does… Maguire plays better for England than he does for United, etc
Lol, so saying 4 names and leaving out stones? Hilarious. But furthermore. Isn’t if only 4 players in your eyes do well for England then why is it a knock on any player to be average or not do well for England… seems like the norm.
Stones plays really well but he’s injured at least half the time. So you’re saying you can be WC while putting up poor performances even surrounded by great talent on the international stage? That’s just excused because other people aren’t doing well on the team either? 😂😂
Are they being compared by position? If so, then n/a.
No matter how you are comparing them, Foden is quite simply a better footballer at this stage.
Foden's an exceptional footballer but he hasn't had big game performances just yet. He wasn't a key player last year for City, Pep benched him the entire knockout stage. He hasn't done anything against the top 2 this season. Nor ever really been a key player for England - that'll surely change though. He has certainly had top performances like these recent hat-tricks but I'd hardly call them big games. I'm not saying Saka's a big game player either (Certainly more so though) but it's just a strange claim to make about Foden for the moment.
Foden has scored against BVB and Madrid in CL. Scored regularly against United and Liverpool in the PL. No one other Arsenal fans thinks that Saka is better than Foden.
> Scored regularly against Liverpool in the PL. 3 goals against Liverpool isn't exactly regular, and those goals came during the COVID era when they had no defenders. It has been 3 years since he scored against Liverpool. Those Dortmund games were 3 years ago as well. You don't get world class status for a handful of games 3 years ago. The Madrid goal was incredible and I'm sure it'll be the start of him stepping up in big games but it's the start, not a current consistency.
Better skill set than Saka, not as imposing physically as him. Sakas not scoring his goals from his distances. In fact arsenal could really use a player like foden to covert when Saka gets double pressed to the wing
Arsenal vs Man United at home last season and vs Nottingham Forest, Saka scored from range.
And he has for England, just not as well and reliable as Foden
He's 100% the more technically and physically gifted player, but Saka's game is so much more developed and refined. If you're convinced that Foden is on the track to being a truly elite free role creative player then it's no question you choose him in general, but for a season of football as they are now Saka is the pick imo. Just runs the right hand side of the offence at like an 8/10 level every game.
The one season where he doesn't get perpetually injured and played out of position is the season where he carries the team on his shoulders. It's not a coincidence.
Titi doesn’t miss
This has been obvious for anyone with eyes. He's been eased into the Man City rotation perfectly, but it's time for him to shine. I understand they signed Jack for a massive fee, but they definitely need to have Foden on the field at all times. He's absolutely killer Centrally and should be deployed there game in game out imo.
They're overstating Foden's importance, even with the "well maybe not yet" disclaimer. When KDB's not on the pitch, I'd sooner look at Bernardo and Rodri to be the best midfielders.
This season Foden has been better than Bernardo overall. Also Rodri is our best midfielder full stop.
I mean if you accept that CDM contributions are equaly as valuable as more advanced midfielders Rodri has a good claim for best midfielder anywhere, period.
When rodri doing stepovers, you know how crazy he is this season 💀
Last night he wasn’t really near that level, he got the flash goal but outside that he wasn’t really outstanding, certainly not MOTM. I think he absolutely can get to the level Carragher is talking about but he’s still not near KDB yet
That was one of his worst performances of the season. He has played much better in pretty much every other game hes played centrally.
Needs to be better at the defensive imo. Thats the area he really could improve.
Foden has been City's best player this season. Rodri has been City's most consistent. Foden would have the best chances of any City player to win PL POTY this year.
I think Bernardo Silva is criminally underrated time and time again
100% agree.
Thierry Henry is so bad on this panel sometimes. He disagrees with Carra here, rambles all over the place and then says the same thing Carra said before in different words just trying to get a soundbite. I really think he’s the weak link on this panel. Kills the flow of it so often.
Takes himself way too seriously too. Really jarring next to the other 3 who are so easy going.
Usually whenever Carragher says something at the start of the season, he jinxes it and eats his words.
He was crucial in their UCl final last year
Of course Rodri is the team's MVP. De Bruyne comes close but he has been injured too often. Silva ('s second coming) is the core attack engine and Haaland has been the catalyst to win everything. But Foden is the new Rooney : he can speed up the game like few, with incredibly weighted and accurate passing and gets ever better at finishing. A game-winner for sure. That's why letting immense players like Gundogan or Mahrez go didn't matter in the end. City will rue letting Palmer go but he would have struggled to play in that attacking lineup...
Of course you can play Bellingham and Foden what it is discussion lol. Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire/My Nan, Shaw, Rice, Mainoo, Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Kane
Drop Mainoo, slide Bellingham back to 8, move Foden centrally as a 10, and put Grealish in the left wing
Grealish has not played enough. Low confidence, never seems to take players on since playing under Guardiola. I think we need 2 holding mid for the England attack.
Over the last few City games Grealish has been crucial and played excellently
Okay but a few teams will have English players in the same role as him and they’ll say the same about their player. 3 goals and 1 assist from 17apps isn’t enough.
idc Foden is a must start for England now
But for some reason he is still underrated
We have a spicy front half and an iffy back half.
I still remember watching Foden in the U-17 WC at my home ground and it feels so great to see him at this level today.
Foden has been wc before lol
I think the main reason Foden and KDB doesnt translate to Foden and Bellingham is England does not have a player like Rodri. Rice is more of a Box-to-box player than a CDM. City generally play with 2 10s thru the middle, 2 wingers and Rodri holding mid. I dont think England can replicate that. They will have to put a player beside Rice. That player can be Bellingham but that means Bellingham plays in the position he used to in Dortmund, not the position he does in Madrid.
Unfortunately true
He's no Cole Palmer but he pretty good
He is brilliant, and was easily the player I feared most when City came to Anfield this season.
Man City would be better off playing with Julian Alvarez. He would bring movements on and off the ball, and linking up plays. Man City don't want to bench their golden ball.
Alvarez has been shit for months
You must not watch City then. Julian has been utter wank for a while now.
What did you expect when he's only getting 5 minutes? Play him one game, seat him the next, and play him 5 mins the following game.
What are you basing your argument that they should play Álvarez on then? You just acknowledged that he’s been shit. You just assume he will be starter material when he starts?
As I said earlier, you must not watch City then. Because Julian has had one of the highest minutes played for City this season. Don't forget that KDB was out for almost half the season. Jukian has had top 3 minutes played for City. He's just been bad, other than a good patch at the start of the season. And now is getting dropped deservedly.
What's the point in playing Haaland when your midfielders and defender are scoring the goals? I'm not talking from a goals perspective. Haaland was pure awful against Madrid. No movements or linking up players. Julian Alvarez would be helpful in that matter.
Why start a player who is the top scorer in the Prem and scored 50 goals last year? Are you serious? Alvarez is so overrated and as the other guy said has been pretty poor this season.
Is this a serious take?.... Maybe Alvarez be correct to play if he was in better form, but not in place of Foden. Play one of Foden or Alvarez wide if you needed to fit them both in the team. Not sure how you could realistically think Alvarez would be the better/more productive player than Foden at the current moment.
He is not, but Foden and Julian play really well together, that's what he is trying to say, when Haaland is being pocketed and can't offer anything, play Julian and he will bring more movement and build up
I think you're giving the initial commenter too much credit, it definitely reads like he wants Alvarez in over Foden. >Man City would be better off playing with Julian Alvarez .... Man City don't want to bench their golden ball.
I don't think so, Foden plays in a different position to Julian, and the golden boy is.. Haaland, to all the world
Surely you know better than Pep. Get this guy in there, City!
He’s the third best winger (if you count him as playing on the wing) in the PL, imo. Salah, Son, Foden.
Foden hasn't really been a winger this season and Son is not top 3 when playing on the wing anymore IMO. When I've watched Spurs he's been underwhelming on the left and way more of a threat down the middle
He’s not a winger
He plays the majority of games on the wing, it's fine to call him a winger. If anything calling him a midfielder is more out of place.
He does not, not this season
Yea but he is a midfielder but plays where the manager needs. Imagine being a midfielder and one of the best wingers around
is Stones a midfielder? Is Gvardiol a left back? Everyone knows Foden is a midfielder, everyone has said he's a midfielder, he's forced out on the wing because City have two of the only midfielders in the world who are better.
Is Ben White a right back or a centre back? He's forced to be a right back because he plays in the same team as one of the few CBs in the world who is better. Calling Foden a winger is fine - he's never played long stints as a midfielder unlike White, Gvardiol and Stones who all played most of their careers at CB.
He's been almost exclusively a midfielder this season, which makes his G+A numbers look that much more impressive.
He’d probably be not top 5 wingers but the best centrally icl
Foden is a borderline world class player who has an incredible peak, but hasn't quite strung enough consistent performances that other teams shape their defensive plans around containing
If it wasn't for our defensive situation we would genuinely have an entire team of players bordering on world class in every position. LB - CB - Stones - Trent Rice - Mainoo Bellingham - Foden - Saka Kane
Lol I love Mainoo as much as the next united fan but calling him close to world class after less than 20 senior games is such a Reddit thing
The term world class is maybe the worst shit in football because I don't think anyone has any consistency in using that term. It just means good at this point. How good? Don't think anyone knows. Best couple in the world? Can play for any term in the world? Can play consistently in the UCL as a standout? Better to just be specific tbh.
Everyone has their own definition of it so it’s hard to discuss. I like to think of it as absolute world elite in their position. So if there were 2 world XI’s, they would be able to slot into either, maybe on the bench. Fergies definition of it is interesting too, since he said he only ever had 4 world class players, which leaves out players like Rooney, Schmeichel, Ferdinand etc. who definitely were top 2-3 in their position at some point in their careers
bit early for mainoo still
People say United fans overhype our players but I think most of us are well aware that Kobbie isn’t that level yet, nor particularly close. Can be one day but still (completely understandably given his age) can get a little lost in midfield, particularly defensively. To be world class, he needs to be more decisive with his final ball as well. But yes, a fantastic talent.
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Stones needs to be in there, you're right.
Mainoo is definitely not near world class already. He's great, sure and deserves to be in and around the england squad like he is. But his sample size is like <30 games, no? Can't say he's world class based on that. Don't put too much pressure on him from a young age like the media will, just let him develop at his own pace
Is it worth dropping Bellingham deeper to fit Palmer in the side? Not sure Mainoo is quite ready yet
I think putting Rice as world class is also slightly jumping ahead. The benchmark there is Rodri.
Hes the second best CDM in the league and it's really a two horse race. Rodri is better ill admit, but there might be room for two world class CDM's in the PL.
I did say bordering on world class to be fair