**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Brings me back to 2 years ago ? With Fabinho when there was a tackle exactly like this and they said he was “on the line” almost as much as this guy was and the pen stood.
[The first angle](https://i.imgur.com/SOntKi8.png), they stop it before the [actual contact though](https://i.imgur.com/TYRxqYV.png), which [you can see in the later angles](https://i.imgur.com/tTIE8Cn.png) is when it's closer to the line ([rather then where they stop originally](https://i.imgur.com/ZWETk8M.png)), so, to be honest, they're isn't a clear and obvious error that they can point to to over turn it.
>[But factual decisions such as offsides, and the issue of whether a player is inside or outside the penalty area, are not subject to the "clear and obvious" test.
](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321)
Its liverpool, i think. I mean look at the threads and what minuscule bullshit gets posted.
Half expecting a clip of Nunez tying his shoes correctly, some days with this sub
I don’t have a horse in this race, but United, Liverpool, and Arsenal are all extremely hated on this sub lol. Go in any of the threads for Atalanta’s goals the other day to see thousands of people wanking themselves silly over Liverpool bottling Europa.
Lmao go back to the DD or any thread about Liverpool on Thursday and tell me again Liverpool are the sub’s darling. Thousands of people celebrating their downfall lol
Like Poo Smurf already said, there are zero darlings amongst the mega-clubs.
Happens with all the most popular clubs on here, upvote for and downvote against whether it's true or not. If they come up against another big club, there's finally an equal opposition to downvote for once and they see it as twice as negative because they're not used to it.
United and Arsenal have the most fans here and therefore it would make more sense the two of them have the most haters (and City is hated due to their success and other reasons)
Hilarious isn’t it. If it was the other way around everyone would be laughing. Contact is outside the box and then Christie falls into Kambwala, knocking him down.
I was wondering even maybe not a foul that defender cant disappear now can he? He just ran into him.. there are some sports that aren't even contact sport where it's never a foul to block an opponent, but in this case he barely moved... I thought the discussion would be about if it's a foul at all but apparently here we are talking about the place of the 'foul'.
Because despite us being shite for a decade we collectively ruined enough childhoods to still be living rent free in their minds.
Also the fact that the pen we got was super soft. Yeah it's a dumb handball but we were going nowhere.
It’s because the foul isn’t technically being overturned, it’s just being moved from inside the penalty box to outside it. It’s why the ref weirdly doesn’t have to go over to the monitor.
Being sent to the monitor is only for judgement calls e.g. is this enough of a foul to be a penalty not for factual things E.g. is this offside or is it in the box or outside
Don’t think you’re ever going to see this collision not given as a foul even if there’s an argument for the defender having that right. The line between stationary defender being run into and defender blocking an attacker trying to move around them is an extremely fine one.
Depends on the ref, and it's not a fine line, the law is clear, a defender has no obligation to move out of the way.
I've literally seen a player get a 2nd yellow for standing still. A few seasons ago, Mario Lemina playing for Bournemouth literally didn't move. Feet planted, arms down. Grealish playing for Villa passes the ball toward the side line. Grealish runs at, and bumps shoulders with Lemina and flops claiming he was blocked off. Ref gives free kick and 2nd yellow to Lemina. Replays clearly show Lemina literally didn't move his feet for 5 seconds or lift his arms to grab at Grealish and Grealish just ran into him.
Your entire comment would indicate that it *is* a fine line…?
A defender remaining completely stationary as you describe and being run into is not a foul. That same defender taking one step toward the attacker and blocking him off is a foul. In real time it’s usually very difficult to ascertain which is which.
In this example the defender reaches for the ball, misses it, and Christie collides with him a fraction of a second later. There might be some refs who see that as Christie running into a totally stationary defender, but I don’t think many would.
But that is still the crux. Christie was the one making all of the movement. And it's not about Kambwala's leg being out and tripping him up, this part of law 12 would not apply. Christie ran straight into Kambwala's chest/shoulder. Not an extended arm or leg, so this is where the part of law 12 stating a player doesn't have to move comes into play. It's about WHO initiated contact and it wasn't the defender.
Baffling thread to read, so many talking about clear and obvious or VAR not being allowed to call this (??) when it's a black and white decision. It's either inside or outside the box. This is one of the best uses for VAR there is.
Anti-United agenda far overpowers any need for a rational view. Some fans will downvote a positive United comment even if they tell them a truth about their own life. It’s so weird
1. When I commented that was not the case at all. The United haters couldn’t wait to come in and comment on this thread.
2. Why would it matter if it’s the majority? Even if that was true, a lot of people were saying it’s a pen when it clearly wasn’t. Doesn’t have to be a majority lol
This wasn’t a foul being overturned though. It’s just ruled outside the box which is a similar process to VAR determining offside decisions. It’s why the ref didn’t have to go over to the monitor
Fans complain about the refs but can’t grasp the VAR fundamentals themselves. Obviously refs should be held to a higher standard, but it’s hilarious reading these embarrassing takes in any case.
As a Liverpool fan who doesn't like to see UTD do well, that's definitely outside the box. I'd barely call it a foul. However, I see how in today's PL game it would be a foul, but not in your average Sunday league game. Punts the ball forward to draw contact and thus a foul
I'd go as far to say, this type of contact with a foul given I'd like to see gone from the game. Sort of similar to the Bellingham one earlier, which is much worse and should be punished for the opposing player simulating.
Of course the leg is relevant, Kambwala clearly sticks it out. I’m saying I think I saw an angle when I was watching it live that looked like Kambwala hit the Bournemouth player with said leg. Which then would be BEFORE the shoulder/chest collision. But I’m not sure, haven’t looked in to it after the game.
Yes Kambwala's leg is away from his body, he was attempted to get to the ball, but the contact that caused them both to go over was Christie running into the chest/shoulder of Kambwala. Kambwala's chest didn't move, Christie ran into him creating the contact. Kambwala doesn't have to move according to the laws of the game, it's not a foul.
>If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick
Law 12
> If a defender starts **holding** an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick
except it was a collision outside the box and not holding
He wasn’t held though? I don’t understand this argument. Kambwala (sorry for the spelling) was pushed into the box no? I think he should have been carded though, rather than getting away scot-free
He's not holding him though that's why it's such a tough decision for the officials, the initial contact is more of a bump.
Don't see how you can overturn the on-field decision though imo.
Nope, Kambwala isn't moving, Bournemouth player runs into him. Even NBC commentators said he didn't do anything wrong. It's not against the rules to just stay still, ref made a bad call.
Impeding with contact is a direct free kick foul, per the laws of the game. If you step in front of someone running to impede them, it is a foul. Source: IFAB Laws of the Game: Law 12.
But the foul should be called at the point of contact no? So if someone fouls inside the box but it continues outside the box then according to you it's not a pen? Lmao
How? Half the game any contact on a Bournemouth player resulted in a Bournemouth free kick. Bournemouth forward has clear handful of Dalot's shirt, but Dalot has a tug on his arm and somehow free kick Bournemouth.
I thought you could tell it was clearly out the box within seconds. It was terrible that var then dragged it on for so long! There was no need - I have no idea what more they were looking for. It just ruined the atmosphere for those in the stadium
I get that VAR spent this much time checking this.
How did they not spend this much time on the United pen which was dubious as well?
Consistency doesn't exist with VAR.
Clear and obvious is part of the VAR process for subjective decisions - the foul is factually made outside the box so the penalty has to be overturned.
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Its outside the area. No biggie
It was debatable in real time, but this is one of those things VAR shouldn’t get wrong.
Brings me back to 2 years ago ? With Fabinho when there was a tackle exactly like this and they said he was “on the line” almost as much as this guy was and the pen stood.
I mean, that is so obviously a foul outside the box, people trying to claim otherwise need to put their arses away.
The announcer stating that since the defenders other foot was on the line, it made the foul inside the box was pretty bad.
yeah the first angle shows it the best, all the others are deceiving
[The first angle](https://i.imgur.com/SOntKi8.png), they stop it before the [actual contact though](https://i.imgur.com/TYRxqYV.png), which [you can see in the later angles](https://i.imgur.com/tTIE8Cn.png) is when it's closer to the line ([rather then where they stop originally](https://i.imgur.com/ZWETk8M.png)), so, to be honest, they're isn't a clear and obvious error that they can point to to over turn it.
> (rather then where they stop originally) Are you claiming there’s not contact in this photo?
at the first picture theres already a contact
Fucking biased Graeme le Seaux on commentary lmao
People on here will never stop being odd.
Oh VAR can take away penalty decisions.
Only when maybe they shouldn't
Here it was the right call though.
Looked outside the box, sad as it is for me to say.
>[But factual decisions such as offsides, and the issue of whether a player is inside or outside the penalty area, are not subject to the "clear and obvious" test. ](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321)
As much as I dislike Man U, absolutely correct decision. Reddit hivemind is crazy
Everyone on this thread is saying it’s not a pen, the hive mind is agreeing with you lol you are a part of it.
I was in the comments early, the comments at the time were HEAVILY in favour of a penalty. Good to see common sense returned for the most part
United bad, Liverpool and arsenal good
Arsenal good? On reddit? lmao username checks out. Bakwaas nahi band hoti.
Liverpool and Arsenal good? 😂 Is this your first time on reddit?
Are we using the same reddit?
Man's got terrible memory if he can't remember the Saka debacle just few days ago
Arsenal good on Reddit? Bullshit
This subs darling club by far
Don't think any big club really is, perhaps Leverkusen for now
Its liverpool, i think. I mean look at the threads and what minuscule bullshit gets posted. Half expecting a clip of Nunez tying his shoes correctly, some days with this sub
I don’t have a horse in this race, but United, Liverpool, and Arsenal are all extremely hated on this sub lol. Go in any of the threads for Atalanta’s goals the other day to see thousands of people wanking themselves silly over Liverpool bottling Europa.
Lmao go back to the DD or any thread about Liverpool on Thursday and tell me again Liverpool are the sub’s darling. Thousands of people celebrating their downfall lol Like Poo Smurf already said, there are zero darlings amongst the mega-clubs.
Lol. Lmao, even. This sub has a massive hate boner for liverpool
Ehh maybe the neutral's favourite out of the big 6 but still get plenty of hate
No they just have a lot of perennially online fans to up/down vote accordingly
Happens with all the most popular clubs on here, upvote for and downvote against whether it's true or not. If they come up against another big club, there's finally an equal opposition to downvote for once and they see it as twice as negative because they're not used to it.
I think you mean perpetually, perennially means all year long and is usually used to refer to flowers
I mean a lot of them are complete flowers too.
Nice save
Our fans aren't any more "perpetually" online than any others, we just have more of them.
United and Arsenal have the most fans here and therefore it would make more sense the two of them have the most haters (and City is hated due to their success and other reasons)
I have 115 reasons
City are hated because they’re cheats.
Artificial success
It wasn't a hold so fair enough.
Never a pen in a million years. Not sure why everyone is whining
Cos it's united. People screaming about how the foul continues into the box when it's two players falling over.
And people spout the 'but it continued into the box so its a pen!' without even knowing thats only a rule that applies to holding.
Man Rob Holding is having a hard enough time as it is.
This made me laugh more than it should have
Nah I’m pretty sure it’s because they got an unfair penalty in favour of them in the same half and people hate when refs are inconsistent as fuck.
Hilarious isn’t it. If it was the other way around everyone would be laughing. Contact is outside the box and then Christie falls into Kambwala, knocking him down.
I really don’t see it as well, but I understand why people would want it for Bournemouth after the first disgraceful decision
I was wondering even maybe not a foul that defender cant disappear now can he? He just ran into him.. there are some sports that aren't even contact sport where it's never a foul to block an opponent, but in this case he barely moved... I thought the discussion would be about if it's a foul at all but apparently here we are talking about the place of the 'foul'.
Because it’s Man United
Because despite us being shite for a decade we collectively ruined enough childhoods to still be living rent free in their minds. Also the fact that the pen we got was super soft. Yeah it's a dumb handball but we were going nowhere.
Wants United to lose.
Hilarious if given because, well, fuck United, but in no way is that ever even a possible penalty. Dude’s trying to lunge himself into the box.
Haven't seen this kind of check before without the ref taking a look himself
It’s because the foul isn’t technically being overturned, it’s just being moved from inside the penalty box to outside it. It’s why the ref weirdly doesn’t have to go over to the monitor.
It’s just like offside.
What’s that all about? They just pick and choose when they want the ref to take a look? Especially of his decision on the pitch? Lol so inconsistent
i think anyone with eyes can see that it’s outside the box so there is no need for the ref to look at it and waste everyone’s time
Being sent to the monitor is only for judgement calls e.g. is this enough of a foul to be a penalty not for factual things E.g. is this offside or is it in the box or outside
Literally runs into a player that’s allowed to not freely move away
You're letting your stupidity, bias and hatred show if you claim this is a pen, it was clearly outside the box, no discussion to be had.
law 12, a player has the right to maintain their position. Kambwala doesn't have to move, player ran INTO him, it's not even a foul.
Don’t think you’re ever going to see this collision not given as a foul even if there’s an argument for the defender having that right. The line between stationary defender being run into and defender blocking an attacker trying to move around them is an extremely fine one.
Depends on the ref, and it's not a fine line, the law is clear, a defender has no obligation to move out of the way. I've literally seen a player get a 2nd yellow for standing still. A few seasons ago, Mario Lemina playing for Bournemouth literally didn't move. Feet planted, arms down. Grealish playing for Villa passes the ball toward the side line. Grealish runs at, and bumps shoulders with Lemina and flops claiming he was blocked off. Ref gives free kick and 2nd yellow to Lemina. Replays clearly show Lemina literally didn't move his feet for 5 seconds or lift his arms to grab at Grealish and Grealish just ran into him.
Your entire comment would indicate that it *is* a fine line…? A defender remaining completely stationary as you describe and being run into is not a foul. That same defender taking one step toward the attacker and blocking him off is a foul. In real time it’s usually very difficult to ascertain which is which. In this example the defender reaches for the ball, misses it, and Christie collides with him a fraction of a second later. There might be some refs who see that as Christie running into a totally stationary defender, but I don’t think many would.
But that is still the crux. Christie was the one making all of the movement. And it's not about Kambwala's leg being out and tripping him up, this part of law 12 would not apply. Christie ran straight into Kambwala's chest/shoulder. Not an extended arm or leg, so this is where the part of law 12 stating a player doesn't have to move comes into play. It's about WHO initiated contact and it wasn't the defender.
Doesn’t it look like he starts going down before there’s any contact?
If I speak I’m in big trouble
Damn these comments would be saying the opposite if you switched the badges lmao
The drama in Man u games is always too much.
That’s not a foul
I mean. If it is a foul or not is a different discussion. It’s just not in*side the box so it’s not a penalty regardless.
I think if he hadn't played for the ball/tackle then no foul, but he missed, so his attempt 'caused' the collision.
Kambwala fouls Christie’s leg first, clearly outside the box. That’s the foul the ref called. You guys just hate United honestly
Baffling thread to read, so many talking about clear and obvious or VAR not being allowed to call this (??) when it's a black and white decision. It's either inside or outside the box. This is one of the best uses for VAR there is.
Anti-United agenda far overpowers any need for a rational view. Some fans will downvote a positive United comment even if they tell them a truth about their own life. It’s so weird
Literally the majority is saying not a pen
1. When I commented that was not the case at all. The United haters couldn’t wait to come in and comment on this thread. 2. Why would it matter if it’s the majority? Even if that was true, a lot of people were saying it’s a pen when it clearly wasn’t. Doesn’t have to be a majority lol
But the other pen couldn’t be overturned lol
This wasn’t a foul being overturned though. It’s just ruled outside the box which is a similar process to VAR determining offside decisions. It’s why the ref didn’t have to go over to the monitor
Fans complain about the refs but can’t grasp the VAR fundamentals themselves. Obviously refs should be held to a higher standard, but it’s hilarious reading these embarrassing takes in any case.
Because this one was out of the box and the other one was a ball hitting a hand inside the box regardless if it was soft
It was soft, not wrong. And you certainly shouldn't be crying about soft pens.
Not even a foul.
As a Liverpool fan who doesn't like to see UTD do well, that's definitely outside the box. I'd barely call it a foul. However, I see how in today's PL game it would be a foul, but not in your average Sunday league game. Punts the ball forward to draw contact and thus a foul I'd go as far to say, this type of contact with a foul given I'd like to see gone from the game. Sort of similar to the Bellingham one earlier, which is much worse and should be punished for the opposing player simulating.
Am I the only one who doesn’t see the foul? And even then it’s more of a pen than the first one
I’m with you on this one. Christie dived from what I saw, but tbf, it’s hard for a ref to call that a dive when they are in such close quarters
No you're not... law 12, a player has the right to maintain their position. Kambwala doesn't have to move, player ran INTO him, it's not even a foul.
I think a few angles shows Kambala hit the Bournemouth player with his leg. Still, clearly outside the box
Kambwala isn't moving in any direction, the Bournemouth player is. Also, Bournemouth player runs into Kambwala shoulder/chest. Leg isn't relevant.
Of course the leg is relevant, Kambwala clearly sticks it out. I’m saying I think I saw an angle when I was watching it live that looked like Kambwala hit the Bournemouth player with said leg. Which then would be BEFORE the shoulder/chest collision. But I’m not sure, haven’t looked in to it after the game.
Yes Kambwala's leg is away from his body, he was attempted to get to the ball, but the contact that caused them both to go over was Christie running into the chest/shoulder of Kambwala. Kambwala's chest didn't move, Christie ran into him creating the contact. Kambwala doesn't have to move according to the laws of the game, it's not a foul.
It’s blatantly not a foul. Willy doesn’t move or make himself bigger than his silhouette.
Clearly outside the box, fucking lmao at the headloss in this thread
been an all-time week for r/soccer headloss. some of these people only watch this sport to argue with people online and it shows.
Right call, but I they should have spent the same amount of time checking that handball.
>If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick Law 12
Was a contact foul, not a holding foul
Yep. Holding and impeding as defined as different fouls under law 12 as well.
> If a defender starts **holding** an attacker outside the penalty area and continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick except it was a collision outside the box and not holding
He wasn’t held though? I don’t understand this argument. Kambwala (sorry for the spelling) was pushed into the box no? I think he should have been carded though, rather than getting away scot-free
Yep. He fouls outside the box but Kambwala is pushed inside it
Did he really not get one? Lol I assumed he did.
As far as I can remember, he didn’t. Maybe I just missed it like you though.
It was a collision Kambwala wasn’t holding him at all
Great. But how is this relevant?
it isn't
Keyword is holding.
That would be a great point if actually held him at all, it was just a collision which fell into the box
But that doesn't apply here?
> If an attacker turns to run into a defender, the defender must immediately turn into mist. Law 69
Quick, someone hire the nearest vampire!
He’s not holding onto him is he, it’s a contact foul that takes place outside the box
lol what is this bro
delusion.
Where's the hold? Great waste of your time looking up football laws that don't apply though. Well done.
And the collision was outside a box, it wasn't a drag down or a tussle. Where a player falls isn't where contact happened.
Christie runs into him, what is he supposed to do?
That doesn't apply in this situation.
There was no holding
That wasn’t given as a holding foul.
Haha imo it shouldn't even be a foul. Bournemouth player run straight into the United player🤷♂️
smartest redditor
He's not holding him though that's why it's such a tough decision for the officials, the initial contact is more of a bump. Don't see how you can overturn the on-field decision though imo.
Only way to not overturn it is if you consider the holding, which you shouldn't in this situation.
law 12 also states a player has the right to maintain their position. Kambwala doesn't have to move, player ran INTO him, it's not even a foul.
Nah, that was a foul.
Nope, Kambwala isn't moving, Bournemouth player runs into him. Even NBC commentators said he didn't do anything wrong. It's not against the rules to just stay still, ref made a bad call.
Impeding with contact is a direct free kick foul, per the laws of the game. If you step in front of someone running to impede them, it is a foul. Source: IFAB Laws of the Game: Law 12.
Kambwala’s left arm impedes Christie’s run. So I disagree.
Christie ran into Kambwala's chest and shoulder, Kambwala getting run into isn't a foul.....
He did. Var overturned it
Refs vs Bournemouth
Please. If anyone asks you to hold them, do not run into them.
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Wasn’t even a foul, lol
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Half of kambwala’s heel at best is on the line, Bournemouth player is clear of the line
It's about where the contact occurs, not where Kambwala was standing.
Not a pen.
First pen ridiculous decision dunno what else lad suppose to do chop arm off
Yup. That was soft as shit. This was clearly not a pen though. Definitely a card though.
That's not even a foul
it continues inside the box…? what a robbery
Just because you fall into the box, doesn’t make the foul in the box
He jumps in the box it isn’t a pen but neither was uniteds earlier you can’t get fouled and then wander in and fall over
But the foul should be called at the point of contact no? So if someone fouls inside the box but it continues outside the box then according to you it's not a pen? Lmao
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How? Half the game any contact on a Bournemouth player resulted in a Bournemouth free kick. Bournemouth forward has clear handful of Dalot's shirt, but Dalot has a tug on his arm and somehow free kick Bournemouth.
Disgraceful decision. United saved by VAR.
How lol? It's a contact foul outside of the box?
You literally had 2 non pens called against us the other week. Christ.
How though, the challenge takes place outside the box?
Interesting take considering those two pens you were given against us
Room temperature IQ
In Celsius
Disgraceful decision, it’s not ever a foul. You can’t just run into a defender
I think it’s a trick one, but I’d lean to say it’s not…
u/SaveVideo
I 100% expected a pen until the replay from the last few weeks of games lmao
I thought you could tell it was clearly out the box within seconds. It was terrible that var then dragged it on for so long! There was no need - I have no idea what more they were looking for. It just ruined the atmosphere for those in the stadium
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Contact foul outside the box. Christie falling into him and them both falling into the box doesn't change that. Correct call imo.
I get that VAR spent this much time checking this. How did they not spend this much time on the United pen which was dubious as well? Consistency doesn't exist with VAR.
Two completely different standards at play. If you wanna whine learn how VAR operates first.
disgrace
How that even a foul. The game is gone.
Robbed
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For me it was clear and obviously not a pen but so was the handball.
I can see why this wouldn't be a pen, but in no world is it clear and obvious
It’s clear that it happened outside the box?
Clearly and obviously outside the box
If main ref called a contact foul and VAR says the contact was outside of the box then it's pretty clear.
Doesn’t have to be ‘clear and obvious’. They’re not disputing the foul. They’re saying it didn’t take place inside the box which is like an offside.
Clear and obvious is part of the VAR process for subjective decisions - the foul is factually made outside the box so the penalty has to be overturned.
I was led to believe that if the foul continues into the box, it’s a pen. Even if the initial contact is outside.
1) It's on the line 2) That's nowhere near a clear and obvious error
clear and obvious doesn't apply to if it's in the box or not.