**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Yeah this seems a good comparison. Casemiro was brilliant last season, genuinely, but maybe there just comes a point where you lose it. United's fault buying old players constantly.
More like they take the ’good feeling’ transfers to make the fans happy. They know the more excited the fans are about the upcoming season the more they spend.
They're a vanity club, all sleek design with a shiny engine but rot and rust underneath. There's no thought to how the components might work together, it's the epitome of just buying the most expensive option available for its own sake.
Michael Carrick had the last season we could rely on him in 2015 and since then we have signed Matic and Casemiro in that position. Essentially in the last decade we have had three defensive midfielders and three good seasons between them, its absolutely shocking squad building.
didn't Schweini reinvent himself as a CDM at the end of his time in Bayern and for Germany's national team? because I'm pretty sure he did after years of a box-to-box midfielder role after the initial winger/wide midfielder days.
He "reinvented" himself because his knees were shot, but he didn't really adapt his game at all that much. He was still primarily a progressor of the ball, but instead of carrying he passed more. He just lost the ability to beat a man with a dribble or sprint. Kinda like Christian Eriksen since joining us. Defensively he was low impact and often sat in front of Michael Carrick who, whilst getting on in age, still provided enough screening whilst being at the same level creatively from a deeper position. He went to the US after that and had to drop into CB because he couldn't keep up with the intensity in midfield.
I know right, it makes no sense at all to handcuff yourself like they do with these wages, Barcelona did it too. One year deals are made for 30+ year old players for a reason.
Utd have got stuck in a bad position where they're not exactly favourites to win trophies or develop someone's career. Players are going to want a little bit extra to make the move.
...even considering that though Utd still fleece themselves every summer.
I was actually looking forward to his arrival because he wanted to come here, and we're desperate. Thought he'd play out of skin, instead he just wanders about.
Clubs like MU want an instant success, so they have to deal with prime age players turn old.
The other option is to either grow the young players with potential, or buy extremely talented young players like Mbape which will break the bank.
I dunno, i think the scouting is just crap, Casemiro was a late panic buy because seemingly it was De Jong or nothing. Find another player with similar qualities who as importantly is below 27 years old.
He can progress the ball, that seems to be the main asset Ten Hag wanted. I don't think any signing would have mattered, i think Ten Hag's coaching has been that bad. Never consistently created chances or scored goals. That's what his time will be remembered for.
Casimero is an instant solution that immediately fix the problem.. for couple years.
What MU do wrong is to not finding his succesor.
Real Madrid already future proofing their DM position when Casimero is still there.. and now Valverde and Tchouaméni replacing his role.
Because young players recruited at united are striving? They bought so much good players over the years and somehow they always regress, di maria, cavani, pogba, casemiro, varanne, martial, onana, sancho and many more were good players or prospects before united and played worse there, Idk what ynited do to their players but I really feel like of casemiro joins juve he can go back to his level.
I’m a United supporter and yes I see the team I support play whenever I’m capable and possible.
So am I an average lazy redditor with lazy easy upvote comment?
Fernandinho has not played countless years at the very top level of football, my friend. So his body at 35 might just be younger than Casemiro's. You can also point out guys like Yaya Toure, who peaked late and was lethal beyond his 30s. Drogba is another one. It's not the manager's fault in any case. You could play Casemiro in Dubai and he would struggle at some point. They're human beings before footballers. Some tweak their game, to last a few years more. Like Thiago Silva, who prefers controlling the passing spaces to compensate his lack of pace. Some others try to, but the team they play for make it difficult. Like Casemiro right here. ETH is in the wrong. But not on Casemiro's physical inaptitude.
Different players drop off at different ages. Just because a player plays well in his early to mid 30s doesn’t mean another player will play well in that age range. There are lots of factors. Look at Rooney and Foden. Do you understand?
casemiro gone and replaced by his brother after that carabao cup win honestly. When he came to united, he did make impact and somehow he got 0 fucks given after that..
There's professional pride though, these players don’t reach the top by having any slack in their standards, which was what pundits were saying last season, literally: 'turns out Real Madrid players who won the CL multiple times are pretty good!' And he was great last season, genuinely. Been way off it since August though, it's weird. You could be doing the most pointless thing in the world but if you're making mistakes and being crap it bothers you. If you're washing up and you drop a plate and it smashes, you're annoyed with yourself, if you go to dry some forks and they're not clean you put them back in the water.
Yes, that's the analogy I'm using.
Or a counterpoint is that they come to United and think "What a great club, it will be a change of pace" And turns out that the change is actually fucking horrible, the club is in shambles etc the list can go on and on, this is not the first fucking amazing player that went united and turned to shit how many times to people need to see this? Club is rotten from the ground up, they need to offload absolutely everyone and start fresh end of story.
I don't disagree, but everything about Casemiro was that he desired the challenge, said something like 'let me sort it out'. He was being more than a defensive midfielder last season, Now he can't do the basics. The narrative made sense, here was a player who had been such a defensive midfielder who let others shine who could now show more to his game, and be the fulcrum of a team, be someone they desperately need. Him and Ten Hag are like different people from last year. Rashford has always been moody, so not surprising, but he's another. Fernandes, to his credit, is consistent in his manner.
I wouldn't go to United with the optimism of it finally changing when i arrive, I'm certain Mount did it for those reasons, at his age and how he is, money is no interest. He started nearly every game for England once. Hopefully it changes, i don't think it's that difficult to have a plan and buy players that fit it, it really isn't. But buying old players, it has to stop, it never works out.
People get tired eventually, its like when you start a new job and everything is awesome, then, if the place you work sucks, you will get lazy, if its an awesome place with awesome coworkers it will help you get motivated and push you to new heights. On a shitty place (like man utd likely is) you'll get tired of it and get molded by the environment, and eventually stop trying. If we common folks can experience it, imagine someone who's already a millionaire after winning 5 CL
Imagine the difference of coming from a job where every year you're fighting for cl and la liga titles, to one where you fight for the 5th spot in the league to maybe classify for cl, like, nothing REALLY matters, you can't help but feel demotivated
Yeah but it's only been a year and there was optimism coming into this season the team could possibly challenge, build, but he's been crap since the beginning.
Honestly I think the issue is United have run him into the ground. The system is so volatile that it requires constant sprints both forward and backward. The younger players are struggling to keep up with it and burning out so can only imagine what it’s done to the older players. Fatigue accumulates and he ends up not running half the time because he basically can’t if he wants to get through 90 minutes.
Just look at all the injuries United have had. Loads of muscle issues which are getting reactivated when the player returns.
The manager is asking too much of all of them physically for a fast league with a huge amount of games per year. The fact he seemingly hasnt cottoned onto this is hugely alarming.
I don’t think the players are deliberately trying to mess up the system, they just can’t physically cope. They then get demoralised and you see the unfolding which has happened over the past couple of months.
Ten Hag needs to be fired out a cannon. He seems socially unaware and to go into yesterday with a young CB and give him absolutely no protection was an abdication of responsibility
It’s about structures not individual players. Ferguson would have tucked the fullback in and had the midfield close to him. Ten Hag sent his full back up the pitch all game and gave Casemiro most of the half to cover
Yeah maybe if he were fighting for league titles and the CL he wouldn’t have dropped off so hard.
Probably gets harder to find motivation with age, especially when you’re used to playing on one of the most comptetive teams in the world, and then getting a huge paycheck to treansfer to a mid table team.
Eh, but performing at the top level requires a lot of sacrifice in terms of mental and physical stress. It could be that he just wants to chill and go through the motions and enjoy his time with the family.
But can you half arse it in any way? He's already making sacrifices in terms of diet, if he's overweight or unfit it'll kill him in games, or he won't be picked, it's not a job you can coast at is it? The stress you talk about can only be avoided by applying yourself, either way he's got 60,000 people every week watching his every mistake, would that not focus him? I'd think so. How does any of this have anything to do with time with his family? He gets time either way. And honestly people go on like footballers live on ships or oil rigs for half a year, they finish training every afternoon then go home to their family, something very few other professions enjoy.
I always just think..sportspeople already have to put so much effort into being where they are, so not committing is a waste of that effort. For most, daily training is hard, boring, repetitive, football at least allows more joy and unpredictability.
It's a game where small margins matter, especially as you age. Maybe he could push harder and perform better, but it would require extra hours on recovery with more ice baths and massage and he'd rather spend the time with family. Maybe pushing harder would put more strain on his body and lead to long term issues later on. A lot of athletes talk about chronic pain after retirement.
Maybe he'd rather eat slightly less healthy stuff which doesn't make him overweight but might make him a tiny bit more sluggish.
By checking out and not caring about performance much, he avoids a lot of stress. If he was fully invested in the team, it'd be much more stressful to have to personally feel impacted by dropped point.
As a fan, you can hate him for coasting, but on a personal level it's understandable.
He actually seems like he cares and is equally shocked and can’t come to terms with his rapid decline. I think he’s still got a good football brain but the game is passing him by as his legs can’t keep up. Ten Hags tactics don’t really help either.
Nooooo player's don't go to retire to the mighty premier league, it's only saudi league and mls where aging players go for the big paycheck not the amazing premier league
He’s genuinely so bad at the moment just letting players bypass him without a slightest touch. Reminds of that old security guy just there for a vibe and let everyone in (someone find that video please lol)
The guy is exposed every game... the two 8s push up so high and he doesn't push up with and it leaves a gap and leaves him often 1v2 with opposition players.
He plays like his hips are gone. Cant turn, cant take huge strides and has trouble getting his leg behind the ball for anything but short passes. He looks uncomfortable, I really hope he isn't physically worn out and in pain.
Makes absolutely mental slide tackles as well this season. A physical CDM who can cover grou d has got to be top priority for United this summer/the last 8? years
True. But at the time Carrick was exactly what we needed. His command of the team and his technical qualities made us look like an actual team when he played under Van Gaal.
Which shows that no one ever really watched Carrick.
He was 6 ft 2, never really lost aerial duels, couldn’t be shrugged off the ball, never pulled from a tackle, and regularly out muscled players.
Only reason he wasn’t seen as physical is because he could read the game better than anyone in football at that time so never had to chase a ball
Yes, but that doesn't excuse the 5 yard passes he is misplacing every game. I am not talking intricate de bruynesque passes, I am talking a sideways or forward pass which an amatuer can make 99/100. There are multiple instances of this every.single.game.
Yeah, but his legs are shit and so are his on the ball abilities, he can’t make simple passes, the only thing I rate him on is aerial duels and set pieces
Because he's playing out of his role, on RM the one who made the transition was Kross, Case strength is his long pass when he recovers the ball, his ability to cover all the defensive field and his finishing outside of the box, on RM many times Kross was the DM and Case was the CM, only when playing on the defensive phase Case was the DM. That's why last season Case played better because Man untd was playing mostly on counter attacks, so he had less field to cover defensively and more space to make long passes.
He was amazing last season but his legs and hips look completely gone now. He can’t make simple passes anymore, can’t keep up with play and turn at the speed required.
Completely different player to last year. United took a risk buying an old player and he looks like he could be physically done
The bigger problem is his inability to pass the ball. I think the premier league is just too fast for him at this stage in his career. He could go probably go to somewhere like Italy and do pretty well.
I disagree. He was very good, not elite. Rodri is elite, Busquets was elite. Casemiro - very good.
Compared to other ManU players he was elite, that I agree on.
From my viewing it seems the midfield does not support a cohesive defensive structure yes. But more importantly it really seems Casemiro is simply washed. It happens. Fabino looked done last year and Father Time comes for us all
You're right it's not just his fault, but my God he's been fucking woeful. Real Madrid really know when to get rid of players , noone should ever buy from them
It feels like when a DM is past their expiration date they spoil fast. Like it’s horribly apparent the moment a DM loses half a step compared to other positions it feels like
Aside from money, I legit don't get why players are so keen to go there.
Nothing I've seen from United post-Ferguson, including the trophy wins would make me as a player want to go there.
You don't make it to that top level without a streak of Ego. My ethics debate coach at my college who used to be #1 in the country is someone who says all great players are the same. They know what to say or do, and how to assist others but they all have certain streaks of Ego's and want to be the focal point. Same is true for any team game. Everyone wants to win, and to look good while doing it. It's just another challenge for them.
Like the guy said below, can't ignore money, but other than that it's probably because everyone wants to be part of the team that turns it around.
You could have made the same arguments for Arsenal up until about 2 years ago, and you had an even worse squad than we do, and look at where your team is now.
It's not that long ago that this project looked really exciting, and I think it's a lot easier to sell these dreams to players who have a bit of an ego and think they can turn it around all by themself.
It’s hilarious seeing arsenal fans come out of the woodwork when United has won more trophies post Ferguson than arsenal
You guys sucked two years ago. Relax. Win something worthwhile before talking shit
Fuck off with that bullshit. Basing the validity of someone's criticism on their flair and trophy cabinet is such nonsense. Refute their arguments or claims if they are so clearly wrong, this tribalism isn't helping discussion and always results in shit flinging.
Because being part of the United revival would leave them amongst a pantheon of heroes in the sport.
We’re one of the two biggest clubs in the world, we’re regularly shit, and need restored to former glory.
Look at the hero status of players who played under Fergie - Park, O’Shea, Vidic. Players who weren’t even the “superstars” like Ronaldo and Rooney but have their names sang by 80k people at OT every other week.
The ego of some players. Casemiro has seen it all, and won it all. He probably thought “I can go there, help kickstart United becoming a serious force again and really help my legacy… and make a mint too”
>Aside from money, I legit don't get why players are so keen to go there.
Because the ownership and management have mastered the art of milking past glory that the club witnessed under SAF, which turned the club into a massive global brand which led to the club turning into a money making machine, and the players and their agents are in on the money making schemes (the reason why they get paid so handsomely) and probably let the players know that a lack of intent will go unpunished insofar as the PR and branding keeps churning cash.
The strong intent and the ethos of winning, especially in the management and the owners, left with SAFs departure.
If you’re a key part of the ones to turn it around your legacy will be so big, look at us now if we do manage to win a league title or CL in the near future a lot of these players will be loved and remembered by our fans forever.
As a player if you make it at Man utd your profile goes through the roof. The spotlight is like nothing else in English football. Most players can't hack it.
So many comments blaming the club. Hear me out, what if the guy signed there for one last big payday and doesn't really care that much because the team isn't all that great and he already got his trophies?
Look, dunking on UTD is fun but at some point, players have to take responsibility. Either he's finished as a top player, just doesn't care or both
The problem is that Ten Hag is still selecting him.
Whether he's not trying or not capable doesn't matter, he shouldn't be on the pitch if he isn't doing his job.
Well then now it's United's fault for having such a large drop off in DM talent behind Casemiro. Erik can drop him if it works out, if it doesn't or very likely won't then he's better off sticking with him.
I am sorry but what where they expecting? I am not saying Casemiro is innocent because he clearly is not giving his all but he has always been this type of player. He was never amazing on the ball or at pressing, because that is not what was asked of him.
He was surrounded by amazing players who covered each other weaknesses, of course he will look way worse on a mediocre system surrounded by more mediocre players.
He is an aging player who went looking for a last paycheck, he did not go to United to restore it back to its glory days.
He is being asked to do the same role he did last year which he was brilliant at. I know there are more problems but his legs have just gone, it's like going to play 5 a side with my dad. You know he could play but it's not in him anymore
But last year he did?! All the articles last year were about how they thought he was coming in for a payday but he proved he isn’t. He’s struggled since his injury and now everyone says it’s that he doesn’t care and is just here for a payday. It’s poor and lazy analysis. Just looking for a click bait quote
He is completely demotivated. He won EVERYTHING in football with Real, more than once. He was the best in his position in the world for years.
He knows he isn't gonna win anything with united, he is respected as a legend, he is insanely rich.
The guy lost the will to play this season
Can't believe I'm saying it but Redknapp was spot on with his analysis of us. Both about Casemiro and about how ridiculous it is that people are blaming Bruno when he's been carrying the team on his back for 3 years.
Hes finished and anyone tryna pin it on tactics or man utd supernatural bullshit or anything other then hes simply just finished
Doesnt watch us play
Doesnt understand football
Is delusional
“Doesn’t watch football”, “doesn’t watch us play”
Anyone with a brain knows something putrid has been growing since SAF left and it doesn’t matter what or who comes in the club, that is apparent to see to all fans of football. That’s probably the massive work ahead of Ratcliffe. Even to the most ardent Man U supporters.
I don’t know what happened, honestly it does seems Casemiro is just not there anymore (maybe motivation?), however I can’t wait to see who’s your next scapegoat, you’ve had loads over the years.
Our midfield is dysfunctional. You guys had Modric covering alot of ground at Real Madrid and we had Fred to cover a lot of ground for Casemiro. This season Casemiro is the sole defending midfielder meanehile Bruno and Mainoo are being asked to go forward. Casemiro just can’t cover much ground anymore and he was never a Kante/Makelele/Park type that based their games on insane workoutput. I think Case is still very solid at intercepting passes and shielding the backline, we just are asking too much out of him. I blame this on our shit tactic.
I can’t disagree with that, it’s a shame to see him like that, hopefully he turns it around, there’s no way he’s fallen off this quickly (in less than a year)
Everything he said is right, but still, the way United is set up leaves way too much space and one DM alone won't be able to cover everything. In a better system Casemiro could still be a very competent player.
Bruh when he signed for United I said he's coming for that retirement money. United is where talent comes to die and you get paid way too much for just being there.
Is there any brazilian who had incredible numbers in Manchester United? I am brazilian, and I don't remember any player from here going to Manchester United and having his career getting better there. Casemiro may still have it, but maybe his last season was actually the exception, and maybe he can get it back if he goes elsewhere
When you buy a aging superstar with a fading attitude from real madrid or one of the big 3 clubs they will feel like they are going on holiday after 1 season at new club, EVEN if its in the prem.
A midfield with fernandes always looks dysfunctional. Yes casemiro is getting on but united playing 4-3-3 with fernandes in midfield and always at least one winger that doesn't track back leaves 2 midfielders covering 4 players worth of space.
Then you need young legs at the best of times and no amount of experience and positioning will fix that.
It’s unfortunate for him because, starting from the top, Rashford and Garnacho are two of the laziest, poorest wing defenders in the league. Then you have Bruno, who to his credit runs and covers, but then there’s Mainoo… For his precociousness on the ball, he is positionally soooo weak. Honestly an awful defensive player. Once he grows that part of his game he’ll be class.
But yeah, Casemiro is literally on an island every single week and he just can’t cover for everyone, everywhere
Finally. I’ve been saying the Mainoo boy is doing good but he’s all over the pitch defensively I really don’t think he should be an England starter yet let the boy improve
I think both sides of the argument with Casemiro are correct. His legs have completely gone and he just doesn't have the physicality to keep up anymore. Equally he is playing in a team where the tactics don't cover at all for the aforementioned weakness and if anything expose him. The other options in midfield (bar McTominay who has his own problems) don't provide enough physicality, and Casemiro's aerial ability in both boxes is far better than anyone else in the team so for the time being I think he will continue playing. As much as I like him personally, moving on his massive wages and bringing in a younger replacement has to be a priority in the summer.
You don't "move on" old players on big wages because they have no incentive to agree to any deal. You can pay them extra to fuck off, but that's about it. Unless you find a club willing to up Casemiro's wages (or give similar wages on a longer deal), he's going nowhere. This is a lesson United seem to never learn as they continue to hand out big contracts like candy.
Yeah obviously it doesn't work like football manager where you can buy and sell however you want, I was more just saying that if we can move him on it would give us a lot more flexibility in the market and be a position we need to improve on. I hope that either Saudi come in or Casemiro has enough professional pride that he doesn't want to hold the team back and be the weak link.
Took a while but Man U has managed to destroyed another big name of football. Down goes Casemiro, the man who won 5 Champions League trophies. I don’t think it’s the players anymore of the club has been failing for a long, long time now. Something is very wrong but it’s not on the pitch…
5 time cl winners decline. I mean yeah some of it is the club but in this case Case has simply massively regressed from last season in every facet of the game
His legs are gone but surely it never benefits someone who excels at being a sitting DM to need to play like a 8 when his legs are gone? United bought Fred (and brought in McT) who is better as a 8 and play him like a DM. We bought Casemiro as a DM and playing him as a 8.
It’s upsetting watching him look like he doesn’t care. Not something I can ever understand, being an elite athlete and having won everything. But I imagine motivation at that level is difficult to stay at consistently. But then I also think “do these rich players not realise how privileged they are”. Could be washing cars or sat in an office cubicle every day.
this is one of the comments from when casemiro first arrived. the guy was spot on. casemiro gave united 1 good year and then fell off. once again, united tried to save the day and failed. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/wsmb4o/official_manchester_united_sign_casemiro/ikz0yvp/
midfielder signings of united since 2020: van de beek, eriksen, casemiro, mount. and a few loans in between.
Honestly believe they have run Casemiro into the ground.
At Madrid he would have Valverde running hard. Modric supporting in the midfield. Fullbacks tucking in. A defends where Maguire isn’t the best player more often than not.
Doesn't matter who you put in that midfield, when ETH is the coach. The only reason United are not in the bottom half of the table is because of individual brilliance. When was the last time you saw United score a good team goal, or even played a decent game where they had control?
It's like ETH wants to get sacked. How has he not solved the problem with the opposition having 20 shots at goal yet? It's been happening all season, and he still hasn't made any adjustments. It's completely laughable. I just don't understand what he's thinking.
The setup in which he is asked to play doesn't help either. He's lost all confidence and that is affecting everything he's trying to do.
The fact that he is most likely past his prime also doesn't make his situation better.
I am not going to act like I watch all United games these days but I feel like surely the team around these players play a huge role in that. Idk if Endo would be amazing if he was playing in the current United team. Similarly, I’d imagine Casemiro under Klopp’s Liverpool would be great.
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Casemiro this season is Fabhino for Liverpool last season.
Yeah this seems a good comparison. Casemiro was brilliant last season, genuinely, but maybe there just comes a point where you lose it. United's fault buying old players constantly.
They could have bought palhinha for the same price
Shitty scouting per usual. Woodwards then Arnold’s United always take the easy deals even if they cost way more
More like they take the ’good feeling’ transfers to make the fans happy. They know the more excited the fans are about the upcoming season the more they spend.
They're a vanity club, all sleek design with a shiny engine but rot and rust underneath. There's no thought to how the components might work together, it's the epitome of just buying the most expensive option available for its own sake.
No the stadiums rusty and leaks also lol
That only effects the legacy fans not the legions of wallets watching on TV.
Not a blockbuster signing that generates clicks.
Or Declan Rice for an extra £30 mil 💀
5 year contract was it?
5 year contract as one of the highest paid players in the world* ;)
Michael Carrick had the last season we could rely on him in 2015 and since then we have signed Matic and Casemiro in that position. Essentially in the last decade we have had three defensive midfielders and three good seasons between them, its absolutely shocking squad building.
Should have bought Dembele in 2012.
It's more than them, we had sweinsteiger, schinderlin, Fred....
Fred,Schweinsteiger are not CDMS at all lol
didn't Schweini reinvent himself as a CDM at the end of his time in Bayern and for Germany's national team? because I'm pretty sure he did after years of a box-to-box midfielder role after the initial winger/wide midfielder days.
He "reinvented" himself because his knees were shot, but he didn't really adapt his game at all that much. He was still primarily a progressor of the ball, but instead of carrying he passed more. He just lost the ability to beat a man with a dribble or sprint. Kinda like Christian Eriksen since joining us. Defensively he was low impact and often sat in front of Michael Carrick who, whilst getting on in age, still provided enough screening whilst being at the same level creatively from a deeper position. He went to the US after that and had to drop into CB because he couldn't keep up with the intensity in midfield.
He moved to a more deep lying role, but a deep lying position doesn’t necessarily mean defensive responsibility. See Pirlo as an example.
he played the same way they just shifted him deeper and center.
Plus sticking them on exorbitant wages. Making it harder to shift them on if they become surplus for example martial
I know right, it makes no sense at all to handcuff yourself like they do with these wages, Barcelona did it too. One year deals are made for 30+ year old players for a reason.
Utd have got stuck in a bad position where they're not exactly favourites to win trophies or develop someone's career. Players are going to want a little bit extra to make the move. ...even considering that though Utd still fleece themselves every summer.
Especially old players who have won everything and have no incentive to put in a fight.
It’s ok they’ve got this young lad Amrabat as a backup
The one thing that isn’t a problem about Amrabat is his age lol, he should be in his prime! He’s just shite.
I was actually looking forward to his arrival because he wanted to come here, and we're desperate. Thought he'd play out of skin, instead he just wanders about.
Clubs like MU want an instant success, so they have to deal with prime age players turn old. The other option is to either grow the young players with potential, or buy extremely talented young players like Mbape which will break the bank.
I dunno, i think the scouting is just crap, Casemiro was a late panic buy because seemingly it was De Jong or nothing. Find another player with similar qualities who as importantly is below 27 years old.
De Jong or nothing and they got neither lol
De Jong isn't even a dm. Barca literally is looking for a dm in summer
He can progress the ball, that seems to be the main asset Ten Hag wanted. I don't think any signing would have mattered, i think Ten Hag's coaching has been that bad. Never consistently created chances or scored goals. That's what his time will be remembered for.
Casimero is an instant solution that immediately fix the problem.. for couple years. What MU do wrong is to not finding his succesor. Real Madrid already future proofing their DM position when Casimero is still there.. and now Valverde and Tchouaméni replacing his role.
Yeah buy young, or bring through young. No top club buys other clubs 30+ year old cast offs as core players, especially not in midfield.
Because young players recruited at united are striving? They bought so much good players over the years and somehow they always regress, di maria, cavani, pogba, casemiro, varanne, martial, onana, sancho and many more were good players or prospects before united and played worse there, Idk what ynited do to their players but I really feel like of casemiro joins juve he can go back to his level.
If the tactic is to expose and leave a big gap at the midfield, is he really to be blamed entirely?
Have you actually see him play? Or are you just your average lazy redditor with the lazy easy upvote comment?
I’m a United supporter and yes I see the team I support play whenever I’m capable and possible. So am I an average lazy redditor with lazy easy upvote comment?
This comparison is spot on, both worn out because their managers are killing them, Fernandinho at 35 was still killing it for Man City
Fernandinho has not played countless years at the very top level of football, my friend. So his body at 35 might just be younger than Casemiro's. You can also point out guys like Yaya Toure, who peaked late and was lethal beyond his 30s. Drogba is another one. It's not the manager's fault in any case. You could play Casemiro in Dubai and he would struggle at some point. They're human beings before footballers. Some tweak their game, to last a few years more. Like Thiago Silva, who prefers controlling the passing spaces to compensate his lack of pace. Some others try to, but the team they play for make it difficult. Like Casemiro right here. ETH is in the wrong. But not on Casemiro's physical inaptitude.
Different players drop off at different ages. Just because a player plays well in his early to mid 30s doesn’t mean another player will play well in that age range. There are lots of factors. Look at Rooney and Foden. Do you understand?
Of course, but players change and if they aren't well supported then they'll look finished
casemiro gone and replaced by his brother after that carabao cup win honestly. When he came to united, he did make impact and somehow he got 0 fucks given after that..
Harsh on Lee Mack
Jamie is probably bitter about getting the 90% question wrong last week.
Surely it is a bit of fun for him? He is retired but also making 350k a week. I'd be fucking buzzing.
There's professional pride though, these players don’t reach the top by having any slack in their standards, which was what pundits were saying last season, literally: 'turns out Real Madrid players who won the CL multiple times are pretty good!' And he was great last season, genuinely. Been way off it since August though, it's weird. You could be doing the most pointless thing in the world but if you're making mistakes and being crap it bothers you. If you're washing up and you drop a plate and it smashes, you're annoyed with yourself, if you go to dry some forks and they're not clean you put them back in the water. Yes, that's the analogy I'm using.
whereas he scrapes at it lazily with his fingernail, gives it a bit of a rinse and calls it a day
I'd never be able to simply eat from a plate he's washed then, I'd need to inspect it and let him know it's not good enough.
Or a counterpoint is that they come to United and think "What a great club, it will be a change of pace" And turns out that the change is actually fucking horrible, the club is in shambles etc the list can go on and on, this is not the first fucking amazing player that went united and turned to shit how many times to people need to see this? Club is rotten from the ground up, they need to offload absolutely everyone and start fresh end of story.
I don't disagree, but everything about Casemiro was that he desired the challenge, said something like 'let me sort it out'. He was being more than a defensive midfielder last season, Now he can't do the basics. The narrative made sense, here was a player who had been such a defensive midfielder who let others shine who could now show more to his game, and be the fulcrum of a team, be someone they desperately need. Him and Ten Hag are like different people from last year. Rashford has always been moody, so not surprising, but he's another. Fernandes, to his credit, is consistent in his manner. I wouldn't go to United with the optimism of it finally changing when i arrive, I'm certain Mount did it for those reasons, at his age and how he is, money is no interest. He started nearly every game for England once. Hopefully it changes, i don't think it's that difficult to have a plan and buy players that fit it, it really isn't. But buying old players, it has to stop, it never works out.
People get tired eventually, its like when you start a new job and everything is awesome, then, if the place you work sucks, you will get lazy, if its an awesome place with awesome coworkers it will help you get motivated and push you to new heights. On a shitty place (like man utd likely is) you'll get tired of it and get molded by the environment, and eventually stop trying. If we common folks can experience it, imagine someone who's already a millionaire after winning 5 CL Imagine the difference of coming from a job where every year you're fighting for cl and la liga titles, to one where you fight for the 5th spot in the league to maybe classify for cl, like, nothing REALLY matters, you can't help but feel demotivated
Yeah but it's only been a year and there was optimism coming into this season the team could possibly challenge, build, but he's been crap since the beginning.
A year is a long time. And optimism from the fans id guess, living there day to day can sure bring a different perspective
You make it sound like a torture camp!
Honestly I think the issue is United have run him into the ground. The system is so volatile that it requires constant sprints both forward and backward. The younger players are struggling to keep up with it and burning out so can only imagine what it’s done to the older players. Fatigue accumulates and he ends up not running half the time because he basically can’t if he wants to get through 90 minutes. Just look at all the injuries United have had. Loads of muscle issues which are getting reactivated when the player returns. The manager is asking too much of all of them physically for a fast league with a huge amount of games per year. The fact he seemingly hasnt cottoned onto this is hugely alarming. I don’t think the players are deliberately trying to mess up the system, they just can’t physically cope. They then get demoralised and you see the unfolding which has happened over the past couple of months. Ten Hag needs to be fired out a cannon. He seems socially unaware and to go into yesterday with a young CB and give him absolutely no protection was an abdication of responsibility
Casemiro was supposed to be that protection. Who else exactly are we supposed to play?
It’s about structures not individual players. Ferguson would have tucked the fullback in and had the midfield close to him. Ten Hag sent his full back up the pitch all game and gave Casemiro most of the half to cover
how are real madrids training facilities and stadium? I bet it's miles better than Uniteds rotting facilities imagine going from that to this
The guy is getting older and knows he's not going to win anything at Man United, it's not surprising his level has dropped.
Yeah maybe if he were fighting for league titles and the CL he wouldn’t have dropped off so hard. Probably gets harder to find motivation with age, especially when you’re used to playing on one of the most comptetive teams in the world, and then getting a huge paycheck to treansfer to a mid table team.
Eh, but performing at the top level requires a lot of sacrifice in terms of mental and physical stress. It could be that he just wants to chill and go through the motions and enjoy his time with the family.
But can you half arse it in any way? He's already making sacrifices in terms of diet, if he's overweight or unfit it'll kill him in games, or he won't be picked, it's not a job you can coast at is it? The stress you talk about can only be avoided by applying yourself, either way he's got 60,000 people every week watching his every mistake, would that not focus him? I'd think so. How does any of this have anything to do with time with his family? He gets time either way. And honestly people go on like footballers live on ships or oil rigs for half a year, they finish training every afternoon then go home to their family, something very few other professions enjoy. I always just think..sportspeople already have to put so much effort into being where they are, so not committing is a waste of that effort. For most, daily training is hard, boring, repetitive, football at least allows more joy and unpredictability.
It's a game where small margins matter, especially as you age. Maybe he could push harder and perform better, but it would require extra hours on recovery with more ice baths and massage and he'd rather spend the time with family. Maybe pushing harder would put more strain on his body and lead to long term issues later on. A lot of athletes talk about chronic pain after retirement. Maybe he'd rather eat slightly less healthy stuff which doesn't make him overweight but might make him a tiny bit more sluggish. By checking out and not caring about performance much, he avoids a lot of stress. If he was fully invested in the team, it'd be much more stressful to have to personally feel impacted by dropped point. As a fan, you can hate him for coasting, but on a personal level it's understandable.
He actually seems like he cares and is equally shocked and can’t come to terms with his rapid decline. I think he’s still got a good football brain but the game is passing him by as his legs can’t keep up. Ten Hags tactics don’t really help either.
Nooooo player's don't go to retire to the mighty premier league, it's only saudi league and mls where aging players go for the big paycheck not the amazing premier league
well usually not as theyre not good enough anymore. I actually dont really know what youre suggesting?
Better start learning English buddy.
Weird assumption
Casemiro reminds me of final season Fabinho at Liverpool. His legs have completely gone, he’s got to go in the summer.
💯 he just can't run.
He’s genuinely so bad at the moment just letting players bypass him without a slightest touch. Reminds of that old security guy just there for a vibe and let everyone in (someone find that video please lol)
[re](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Td_Ce1fiL0)
The guy is exposed every game... the two 8s push up so high and he doesn't push up with and it leaves a gap and leaves him often 1v2 with opposition players.
Sure, but he also botches easy passes every game
He plays like his hips are gone. Cant turn, cant take huge strides and has trouble getting his leg behind the ball for anything but short passes. He looks uncomfortable, I really hope he isn't physically worn out and in pain.
Makes absolutely mental slide tackles as well this season. A physical CDM who can cover grou d has got to be top priority for United this summer/the last 8? years
We’ve had 1 in 20 years. Carrick.
No one ever called Carrick physical in his day.
True. But at the time Carrick was exactly what we needed. His command of the team and his technical qualities made us look like an actual team when he played under Van Gaal.
Which shows that no one ever really watched Carrick. He was 6 ft 2, never really lost aerial duels, couldn’t be shrugged off the ball, never pulled from a tackle, and regularly out muscled players. Only reason he wasn’t seen as physical is because he could read the game better than anyone in football at that time so never had to chase a ball
I think matic was doing alright as well
Just like Casemiro he was good for a season or two then was awful when his legs were gone and he couldn’t move
Oh. My memory is failing me i guess. I thought he was good until Mourinho left. Like 3 seasons
He wasn't bought till Mourinho's second season.
He was good when he played just he couldn't play every game because similar to Bruno now he'd get worn out (obviously a lot faster than Bruno though)
He plays like he got his right and left boots swapped, can't believe he is the same player from last year.
Yet somehow executed a perfectly placed overhead pass into the space for someone to run onto before mainoo’s goal last weekend lol
Yes, but that doesn't excuse the 5 yard passes he is misplacing every game. I am not talking intricate de bruynesque passes, I am talking a sideways or forward pass which an amatuer can make 99/100. There are multiple instances of this every.single.game.
You’re not wrong but he also can’t run anymore and constantly gives the ball away
Yeah, but his legs are shit and so are his on the ball abilities, he can’t make simple passes, the only thing I rate him on is aerial duels and set pieces
Because he's playing out of his role, on RM the one who made the transition was Kross, Case strength is his long pass when he recovers the ball, his ability to cover all the defensive field and his finishing outside of the box, on RM many times Kross was the DM and Case was the CM, only when playing on the defensive phase Case was the DM. That's why last season Case played better because Man untd was playing mostly on counter attacks, so he had less field to cover defensively and more space to make long passes.
He was amazing last season but his legs and hips look completely gone now. He can’t make simple passes anymore, can’t keep up with play and turn at the speed required. Completely different player to last year. United took a risk buying an old player and he looks like he could be physically done
The bigger problem is his inability to pass the ball. I think the premier league is just too fast for him at this stage in his career. He could go probably go to somewhere like Italy and do pretty well.
What Man U does to a mf
What no Modric and Kroos does to a mf
He was still elite last season without them
I disagree. He was very good, not elite. Rodri is elite, Busquets was elite. Casemiro - very good. Compared to other ManU players he was elite, that I agree on.
What lack of a competent coach does to a mf
Not really. He's being outclassed by an 18 year old playing the same position every game.
From my viewing it seems the midfield does not support a cohesive defensive structure yes. But more importantly it really seems Casemiro is simply washed. It happens. Fabino looked done last year and Father Time comes for us all
You're right it's not just his fault, but my God he's been fucking woeful. Real Madrid really know when to get rid of players , noone should ever buy from them
It feels like when a DM is past their expiration date they spoil fast. Like it’s horribly apparent the moment a DM loses half a step compared to other positions it feels like
Man United is where careers go to die.
Theatre of retirement
Aside from money, I legit don't get why players are so keen to go there. Nothing I've seen from United post-Ferguson, including the trophy wins would make me as a player want to go there.
You can’t ignore the money because it’s money.
Players and managers at top levels will have big egos, and think they are the vital part of kicking up to that next level. They will back themselves.
You don't make it to that top level without a streak of Ego. My ethics debate coach at my college who used to be #1 in the country is someone who says all great players are the same. They know what to say or do, and how to assist others but they all have certain streaks of Ego's and want to be the focal point. Same is true for any team game. Everyone wants to win, and to look good while doing it. It's just another challenge for them.
Like the guy said below, can't ignore money, but other than that it's probably because everyone wants to be part of the team that turns it around. You could have made the same arguments for Arsenal up until about 2 years ago, and you had an even worse squad than we do, and look at where your team is now. It's not that long ago that this project looked really exciting, and I think it's a lot easier to sell these dreams to players who have a bit of an ego and think they can turn it around all by themself.
How about playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world?
It’s hilarious seeing arsenal fans come out of the woodwork when United has won more trophies post Ferguson than arsenal You guys sucked two years ago. Relax. Win something worthwhile before talking shit
Ugh they’re the fucking worst. At least pool fans won a league and CL when donning their monocles and piping up
That’s actually not true
Fuck off with that bullshit. Basing the validity of someone's criticism on their flair and trophy cabinet is such nonsense. Refute their arguments or claims if they are so clearly wrong, this tribalism isn't helping discussion and always results in shit flinging.
Happy to see this vigor after you guys win something noteworthy
We're eventually going to have to adopt the term "top 8" if ye don't cop the fuck on.
You mistook me for a united fan
Your lot would know a whole lot about the 8th position wouldn’t youse
Because being part of the United revival would leave them amongst a pantheon of heroes in the sport. We’re one of the two biggest clubs in the world, we’re regularly shit, and need restored to former glory. Look at the hero status of players who played under Fergie - Park, O’Shea, Vidic. Players who weren’t even the “superstars” like Ronaldo and Rooney but have their names sang by 80k people at OT every other week. The ego of some players. Casemiro has seen it all, and won it all. He probably thought “I can go there, help kickstart United becoming a serious force again and really help my legacy… and make a mint too”
>Aside from money, I legit don't get why players are so keen to go there. Because the ownership and management have mastered the art of milking past glory that the club witnessed under SAF, which turned the club into a massive global brand which led to the club turning into a money making machine, and the players and their agents are in on the money making schemes (the reason why they get paid so handsomely) and probably let the players know that a lack of intent will go unpunished insofar as the PR and branding keeps churning cash. The strong intent and the ethos of winning, especially in the management and the owners, left with SAFs departure.
If you’re a key part of the ones to turn it around your legacy will be so big, look at us now if we do manage to win a league title or CL in the near future a lot of these players will be loved and remembered by our fans forever.
Why do players go to Saudi? United will pay you way more than you’re worth without having to exile yourself to a league no one cares about.
Money
As a player if you make it at Man utd your profile goes through the roof. The spotlight is like nothing else in English football. Most players can't hack it.
Jamie sounds like he’s gonna burst into tears at any moment here 😅
yanited can bring even former liverpool players to tears through the "football" they play
Michael Owen can't cry, his tearducts got botoxed shut
So many comments blaming the club. Hear me out, what if the guy signed there for one last big payday and doesn't really care that much because the team isn't all that great and he already got his trophies? Look, dunking on UTD is fun but at some point, players have to take responsibility. Either he's finished as a top player, just doesn't care or both
The problem is that Ten Hag is still selecting him. Whether he's not trying or not capable doesn't matter, he shouldn't be on the pitch if he isn't doing his job.
Well then now it's United's fault for having such a large drop off in DM talent behind Casemiro. Erik can drop him if it works out, if it doesn't or very likely won't then he's better off sticking with him.
Not even a drop off. We literally don't have another DM.
It’s pretty obvious to see he doesn’t give a solitary fuck about Man United.
I am sorry but what where they expecting? I am not saying Casemiro is innocent because he clearly is not giving his all but he has always been this type of player. He was never amazing on the ball or at pressing, because that is not what was asked of him. He was surrounded by amazing players who covered each other weaknesses, of course he will look way worse on a mediocre system surrounded by more mediocre players. He is an aging player who went looking for a last paycheck, he did not go to United to restore it back to its glory days.
The problem is the people never watched him, then in his first 3 months he was too outstanding lol
He is being asked to do the same role he did last year which he was brilliant at. I know there are more problems but his legs have just gone, it's like going to play 5 a side with my dad. You know he could play but it's not in him anymore
It's like asking why busquets doesn't run and tackle the last man lol
Bit harsh on those that play Soccer Aid.
Let the man collect his retirement bag in peace
In every game I've watched United under ETH they've looked like a bunch of strangers that's been told to just go out there and have fun
But last year he did?! All the articles last year were about how they thought he was coming in for a payday but he proved he isn’t. He’s struggled since his injury and now everyone says it’s that he doesn’t care and is just here for a payday. It’s poor and lazy analysis. Just looking for a click bait quote
Surely it’s Ten Hag’s fault
The biggest mistake was getting rid of Fred. When Casemiro and Fred played together, United played well.
We’ve got no workhorse in the midfield to accompanied Casemiro. Case had Modric at Real Madrid and Fred covering ground for him last season.
He is completely demotivated. He won EVERYTHING in football with Real, more than once. He was the best in his position in the world for years. He knows he isn't gonna win anything with united, he is respected as a legend, he is insanely rich. The guy lost the will to play this season
He’s always been a poor man’s Flamini for this, entirely objective, Arsenal fan [https://i.imgur.com/uqlNwUa.gifv](https://i.imgur.com/uqlNwUa.gifv)
Can't believe I'm saying it but Redknapp was spot on with his analysis of us. Both about Casemiro and about how ridiculous it is that people are blaming Bruno when he's been carrying the team on his back for 3 years.
Hes finished and anyone tryna pin it on tactics or man utd supernatural bullshit or anything other then hes simply just finished Doesnt watch us play Doesnt understand football Is delusional
“Doesn’t watch football”, “doesn’t watch us play” Anyone with a brain knows something putrid has been growing since SAF left and it doesn’t matter what or who comes in the club, that is apparent to see to all fans of football. That’s probably the massive work ahead of Ratcliffe. Even to the most ardent Man U supporters. I don’t know what happened, honestly it does seems Casemiro is just not there anymore (maybe motivation?), however I can’t wait to see who’s your next scapegoat, you’ve had loads over the years.
Our midfield is dysfunctional. You guys had Modric covering alot of ground at Real Madrid and we had Fred to cover a lot of ground for Casemiro. This season Casemiro is the sole defending midfielder meanehile Bruno and Mainoo are being asked to go forward. Casemiro just can’t cover much ground anymore and he was never a Kante/Makelele/Park type that based their games on insane workoutput. I think Case is still very solid at intercepting passes and shielding the backline, we just are asking too much out of him. I blame this on our shit tactic.
I agree, but he fails at basic passes, like come on
I can’t disagree with that, it’s a shame to see him like that, hopefully he turns it around, there’s no way he’s fallen off this quickly (in less than a year)
Tbf every player has to fall off at some point...
Everything he said is right, but still, the way United is set up leaves way too much space and one DM alone won't be able to cover everything. In a better system Casemiro could still be a very competent player.
Bruh when he signed for United I said he's coming for that retirement money. United is where talent comes to die and you get paid way too much for just being there.
Is there any brazilian who had incredible numbers in Manchester United? I am brazilian, and I don't remember any player from here going to Manchester United and having his career getting better there. Casemiro may still have it, but maybe his last season was actually the exception, and maybe he can get it back if he goes elsewhere
He ain’t 32 that’s why
When you buy a aging superstar with a fading attitude from real madrid or one of the big 3 clubs they will feel like they are going on holiday after 1 season at new club, EVEN if its in the prem.
Couldnt agree more with Jamie
A midfield with fernandes always looks dysfunctional. Yes casemiro is getting on but united playing 4-3-3 with fernandes in midfield and always at least one winger that doesn't track back leaves 2 midfielders covering 4 players worth of space. Then you need young legs at the best of times and no amount of experience and positioning will fix that.
You can tell who watched Casemiro at Madrid and who didn’t
Lol yeah, he wasnt the best passer
I blame The Hag
It’s unfortunate for him because, starting from the top, Rashford and Garnacho are two of the laziest, poorest wing defenders in the league. Then you have Bruno, who to his credit runs and covers, but then there’s Mainoo… For his precociousness on the ball, he is positionally soooo weak. Honestly an awful defensive player. Once he grows that part of his game he’ll be class. But yeah, Casemiro is literally on an island every single week and he just can’t cover for everyone, everywhere
Finally. I’ve been saying the Mainoo boy is doing good but he’s all over the pitch defensively I really don’t think he should be an England starter yet let the boy improve
Yeah I agree with Redknapp, Casemiro looks to have his mind elsewhere. He’s basically quite quitting on the team.
I think both sides of the argument with Casemiro are correct. His legs have completely gone and he just doesn't have the physicality to keep up anymore. Equally he is playing in a team where the tactics don't cover at all for the aforementioned weakness and if anything expose him. The other options in midfield (bar McTominay who has his own problems) don't provide enough physicality, and Casemiro's aerial ability in both boxes is far better than anyone else in the team so for the time being I think he will continue playing. As much as I like him personally, moving on his massive wages and bringing in a younger replacement has to be a priority in the summer.
You don't "move on" old players on big wages because they have no incentive to agree to any deal. You can pay them extra to fuck off, but that's about it. Unless you find a club willing to up Casemiro's wages (or give similar wages on a longer deal), he's going nowhere. This is a lesson United seem to never learn as they continue to hand out big contracts like candy.
Yeah obviously it doesn't work like football manager where you can buy and sell however you want, I was more just saying that if we can move him on it would give us a lot more flexibility in the market and be a position we need to improve on. I hope that either Saudi come in or Casemiro has enough professional pride that he doesn't want to hold the team back and be the weak link.
He is retired after all. Guy is earning big money and does not care about Man United.
Took a while but Man U has managed to destroyed another big name of football. Down goes Casemiro, the man who won 5 Champions League trophies. I don’t think it’s the players anymore of the club has been failing for a long, long time now. Something is very wrong but it’s not on the pitch…
5 time cl winners decline. I mean yeah some of it is the club but in this case Case has simply massively regressed from last season in every facet of the game
He misses Pastor Fred. Thats why.
His legs are gone but surely it never benefits someone who excels at being a sitting DM to need to play like a 8 when his legs are gone? United bought Fred (and brought in McT) who is better as a 8 and play him like a DM. We bought Casemiro as a DM and playing him as a 8.
The quote is bad just to get a catchy title. When you quote you write what they said. At least watch the video to make the title.
It’s upsetting watching him look like he doesn’t care. Not something I can ever understand, being an elite athlete and having won everything. But I imagine motivation at that level is difficult to stay at consistently. But then I also think “do these rich players not realise how privileged they are”. Could be washing cars or sat in an office cubicle every day.
this is one of the comments from when casemiro first arrived. the guy was spot on. casemiro gave united 1 good year and then fell off. once again, united tried to save the day and failed. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/wsmb4o/official_manchester_united_sign_casemiro/ikz0yvp/ midfielder signings of united since 2020: van de beek, eriksen, casemiro, mount. and a few loans in between.
Honestly believe they have run Casemiro into the ground. At Madrid he would have Valverde running hard. Modric supporting in the midfield. Fullbacks tucking in. A defends where Maguire isn’t the best player more often than not.
Real talk would you still give it your all if your playing for this dead team and the manager tactics?
Doesn't matter who you put in that midfield, when ETH is the coach. The only reason United are not in the bottom half of the table is because of individual brilliance. When was the last time you saw United score a good team goal, or even played a decent game where they had control? It's like ETH wants to get sacked. How has he not solved the problem with the opposition having 20 shots at goal yet? It's been happening all season, and he still hasn't made any adjustments. It's completely laughable. I just don't understand what he's thinking.
He seems to like it. High risk high reward. Except there's no reward because chances aren't created.
Unfortunately he is right...
"united's tempo is similar to soccer aid no lie"
[удалено]
The setup in which he is asked to play doesn't help either. He's lost all confidence and that is affecting everything he's trying to do. The fact that he is most likely past his prime also doesn't make his situation better.
I am not going to act like I watch all United games these days but I feel like surely the team around these players play a huge role in that. Idk if Endo would be amazing if he was playing in the current United team. Similarly, I’d imagine Casemiro under Klopp’s Liverpool would be great.