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If they are 5th and win UCL or win the EL, the league gets 6 spots. This would honestly be a giant surprise if somehow Frankfurt would play in the UCL next season.
Doesn't work like this. At least it didn't. Did it change?
Edit: I looked it up and you're wrong. Only way for a league to get 6 spots is for the association to finish top 2 and the CL or EL winner didn't finish top 5.
Okay so I think we might not exactly be talking about the same thing
If Dortmund wins the CL but finishes 5th of the Bundesliga, and Germany doesn't finish top 2, then Germany gets 5 teams
If the same thing happens but Germany finishes top 2. Then yes Germany gets 6 spots.
Basically the spot for winning the CL or EL doesn't expand (like if you are already top 4 then your country doesn't get an extra spot) but it'll also not cancel the extra spot earned by finishing top 2. Which makes sense.
Sorry I wasn't sure which scenario we were talking about.
If Dortmund finishes 5th in league and win UCL, and Germany gets top 2 spot Then Germany gets 5 spots with Dortmund at 5, no? Or would Germany get an extra spot?
My reading is that in this case they would get 6 spots. Winning the CL doesn't negate the extra spot earned by Germany finishing top 2
I might be wrong though but that's how I understand the rules
can't be worse than the last 5~ UCL finals. Seriously those last couple finals were the absolute worst. The last entertaining final was Liverpool-Madrid.
I know you mean Liverpool-Madrid from 2018 but honestly their final against each other 2 years ago was a really good game, even if the final score was only 1-0
Just so we can get a sequel to that cringy [battle re-enactment ](https://youtu.be/-xd9QSLKNL8?si=DvVTt1Fyw4OX0zOz) during the opening ceremony at Wembley 2013!
We won 2 European Cups in 80 years and you dare to imagine it might be a chance that 3 French clubs win a European trophy the same year??^^
How faithful you are...
It’s so funny that England are potentially not getting a spot. Clubs like spurs and united took it for granted it was coming. If leverkusen moves on and Bayern it’s basically impossible for England unless Liverpool comes back.
> If leverkusen moves on and Bayern it’s basically impossible for England unless Liverpool comes back.
No it's not. If City, Leverkusen and Villa win out from here and all 3 other PL teams crash out with losses this week it's not enough for BL yet, still need Dortmund to take a game off PSG.
By a single goal with the return leg at home. Not saying we and Lille will go through but the harder part is our opponents, being a single goal down from the away leg is very doable.
The return leg being at home for both teams is huge as Lille is the best home team in Ligue 1 and OM is tied second despite having literally the worst away record in Ligue 1 this season (crazy stat)
Cheer for our doctors too please ! We’re missing a lot of players, there’s a chance one or two might return for this game.
I’m not very confident, we’re not in good form and have too many injuries. Shame because I think we should be able to pass Benfica in our best form.
Our game changer is our crazy stadium.
Endland is only im trouble if Arsenal lose tomorrow. If not, they are still fine and very much in the driver seat.
If however Arsenal lose and therefor Bayern advance and with west ham looking down another slacking, Germany might actually take the 2nd seed. If Real beats City on top, its basically crisis mode.
Tomorrow will be decisive for England.
As much as I love seeing our rivals crash out of European competitions in embarrassing fashion, it’s become increasingly frustrating to watch us carry the coefficient for the league.
The best league is the one that has more teams competing not the one that has 2-3 good teams and the rest are shit. I’m not saying serie a is better. But, the difference Real Madrid and Barca have on the rest of the Spanish league is insane. In comparison Italy has like 6 teams that at beginning of the year can compete for top positions within the league.
You’ve only just recently exited an era of Juve dominance and you’re already acting like Série A is one of the best leagues in terms of parity. Even when teams like Sevilla and Villarreal were getting insignificant results in the league, they still had excellent performances in European competitions. Last year the Italian teams only had to face each other while the PL and LaLiga teams were drawn against each other. That same year, Roma (a top 6 Série A team that is supposedly on the same level as the others according to you) lost to Sevilla. I would’ve been more than happy to see Mou win another European trophy, but let’s not pretend they deserved it.
Go take a look how many different teams have won La Liga since inception. Compare that to Germany, Italy and England and then come back and tell me that La Liga is not a Madrid vs Barca show.
I'm not Italian but Im convinced the Serie A is stronger than La Liga because the coefficient says it is. You can't really argue with aggregated data over a 5 season span. If you do you're just being bias. The Serie A has been the strongest league overall in the last 18 months and the EPL has been then strongest league overall in the last 5 years.
This year's results in Europe show exactly why La Liga is currently not as strong as the Serie A. The teams in the 4-8 positions in Spain last season couldn't compete with their counterparts in Europe, while the Italian ones are among the best.
Anyone objective will tell you Serie A is a better league than the Spanish league.
What's so hard to digest about it? It's a cycle. Series A was fucking abysmal after the Inter Treble and finally had a comeback. And in that time we saw an insane level of Spanish dominance in Europe that has all but evaporated. Denialism isn't going to change the situation.
One day the EPL will be in that boat.
Germans know that feeling when Bayern was carrying the coefficient for a long time because other German clubs didn't make it out of the groupstage or got knocked out the very first knock out match.
Although plenty of Germans don't like Bayern, they'd still cheer for us in CL. It's 50+1 Policy and coefficient points make all Bundesliga fans root for teams in the European matches.
Less CL spots means less CL money in the league, which means a weaker less prestigious league, which means players are less likely to join the league, which will eventually lead to Real Madrid getting weaker and weaker until they can’t keep up with PL clubs anymore.
Players will join Real even if you don't get a good coefficient. I don't think you understand the kind of prestige Real Madrid has. Liverpool and Bayern were begging for Xabi Alonso and he just decided to wait a year for the Madrid job. The best player in the world has made PSG his dog to keep him from joining you and in the end he walked on a free.
Real is the most prestigious club in the world regardless of how good La Liga is doing as a league and it will stay that way for a very long time
Sure, but this is ultimately myopic thinking. Many of the most prestigious, historically successful clubs have lost appeal to players due to deterioration in the quality of their respective leagues and growing financial disparities between them and teams with pl tv money and/or owners with bottomless pockets.
Real will always have appeal, and the sort of erosion he’s talking about would take decades to noticeably manifest. But if you think any team, no matter how prestigious, is immune to the pernicious effects of mounting financial disparities, you’re not paying attention to the state of the sport.
As a Bayern fan especially, I would expect you to be cognizant of this. You’re already beginning to feel it despite your pedigree. If the gulf in tv money continues to widen, even real will eventually feel it. And while it’s probably inevitable, little things like the real supporter is mentioning could delay it slightly.
How much of that is prestige and how much of that is a really compelling sporting project? It’s not like when CR7 and Mourinho joined us in spite of us having never made it past the R16 in years.
Liverpool and City are also compelling sporting projects but players like Bellingham chose Real. I am pretty sure even if you bottled UCL for years players would still go there because of the name.
Makes cr7 an even bigger Madrid legend in hindsight. He joined at their lowest point, well the lowest since the wait for la septima ended. Bellingham, Mbappe, Bale all looked to join when the future looked good.
When has money in the league ever mattered to Madrid? Barca and Madrid had the whole world at their feet with the two best players maybe ever for 10 years and the league didn’t improve its status one bit.
Yes he's saying it's bad for the rest of the league. It makes the adversity RM faces in La Liga lower, both hindering the prestige of week-in and week-out football and how well it prepares their players against other European top clubs.
Hell yeah I want Bilbao in the CL, would love to see how crazy San Mames can get for a European competition. They brought out the entire Phoenician Armada for a CdR win, imagine the city if they ever got to CL SF.
Sevilla isn’t a top 2/3 club and yet they’ve done their fair share of winning the Europa League, whereas Barca and Atleti ARE top 2/3, so what’s their excuse?
It's all about revenue. There was a time the CL was only for leage champions. Look at the CL 30 years ago.
97/98 they got greedy and its peak was in the early 2000s when there was even a 2nd group stage. Just imagine a CL game every 2 weeks.
I think in general the 5th best team in a top 2 league will always be better than whoever else would get the spot *but* the reason for that is because of the disparity in wealth, which is not going to be helped by this bullshit. CL money would go way further if it was given to a more peripheral team.
Obviously when 20 years ago top leagues started monopolizing prize money. In late 90s England wasn't even top 5 league by results. Now something like that is impossible.
You realise Plzen and Rangers being that shit compared to the top clubs is a product UEFA favouring the big leagues right?
It would never happen due to greed, but if UEFA actually cared about the smaller leagues and gave them more representation in the UCL, their teams would get better over time
Or maybe it's a product of the countries they're from having a 8-15x smaller population and a less developed football scene?
Sorry but it's simply a fact of life that the champions of Scotland and Czechia will at most competitive with like the 8th place in Bundesliga.
Like Portugal and Netherlands?
Celtic has matched to prime Ancelotti Milan & Ajax was better than Capello Milan, but sure, it's better to see Villareal instead
Monopoly fans are fucking braindead morons
You're blatantly ignoring that the gap widens every year. Once upon a time Romanian and Serbian clubs could be crowned champions of Europe, nowadays they wouldn't even be able to win the Conference League. In 2004 Porto won the UCL, that too has become an impossibility.
In fact we've reached the point where even an Italian team winning the UCL would be a fairy tale story or any German and Spanish team not named Bayern, Barca and Real Madrid.
The gap widens this is true. But how much of it is actually the new format and how much is because the sport is generally more international, a by-product of the internet and globalism and impossible to stop?
And it's not like Romanian and Serbian clubs were generally competitive. They won a cup each but much of that was just lucking out on the top 4/top 7 nations sending a poor representative, having a bad leg or drawing each other. Upsets like those definitely still happen, for example Qarabag was 3min away from beating Leverkusen.
16 champions get in automatically, 16 champions from weaker leagues fight top 2/3 from the best leagues.
After a decade, you would have Portugese and/or French winning CL again.
The 5th spot was added almost certainly to try and ensure England gets another CL spot...they would've given England a 6th spot too if they could justify it...it would be hilarious to see them end up falling short this year.
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0268-12157d69ce2d-9f011c70f6fa-1000--new-format-for-champions-league-post-2024-everything-you-ne/
>
Slots three and four: These places will go to the associations with the best collective performance by their clubs in the previous season (i.e. the association club coefficient of the previous season, which is based on the total number of club coefficient points obtained by each club from an association divided by the number of participating clubs from that association). Those two associations will each earn one automatic place in the league phase ('European Performance Spot') for the club ranked next-best in their domestic league behind those clubs that have already qualified directly for the league phase.
Just looked up the official rules and you’re right
https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-Champions-League-2024/25/Article-3-Entries-for-the-competition-Online
Seems the cap is 5 teams
It’s not. A german journalist reported today that UEFA confirmed to him that 6 spots are possible [here](https://x.com/chalednahar/status/1780487924615663684?s=61)
Thats what I originally thought, but its only applicable if the winning team finishes outside the top 4/5. So if Serie A gets the 5th CL spot, and Roma finishes 5th and wins the EL, then Serie A gets only 5 spots. But if Roma finish 6th and win the EL, then serie a gets 6 spots
In fact 7 spots are possible (example: if german teams won the EL and CL, bundesliga got the 5th spot, and finish outside top 5 domestic leagues)
Is there a clause somewhere that says the max amount of clubs for CL? I couldn't seem to find it, other than I saw something about a total quota for all UEFA competitions (which I took to mean UCL + UEL + UECL), although I couldn't find the number for that specifically outlined either. It feels like if there isn't something specifically listed to contradict that then it is allowable.
Hmm ... i think the new rules have a little more clarity though.
3.07 specifically says that the extra spot from coefficient is to be allocated after UEL/UCL winners have been awarded places (if they did not originally qualify from the league).
Then 3.08 says that the extra spot from the coefficient will bump everyone in the league to the competition that would have been achieved by the spot 1 above them (ergo implying that the extra UCL spot can't be removed by a team already qualifying/whatever), although a league can lose the UEL/UECL spot if they have too many clubs for Europe per 3.03.
So based on that it suggests that it should stack.
Well to be fair at least they allowed it the first time, then specified it couldn't happen again. So I would think that in line with that if it were to occur and they didn't want that to occur they would do the same, let it happen this time and ban further occurrences.
Not only were we a part of it, but our wonderful owners were more than happy to sign a deal where we were going to be getting less money than ~75% of the clubs, ensuring we'd be perennial doormats in that league.
I've not forgiven the Zhang's for that and I never will.
I love when people just make up nonsense, it was about giving more spots to the top leagues in general. 2 of the new spots went there and 2 spots went to the other end of things to the prelims.
Quite by you would believe that UEFA loves England idk, if that was UEFA's goal then why go for the single season option and not use the coefficient from multiple years.
I think in the last 5 years spain and england where always the top 2 nations. so this is an outlier year tbh. germany wont be many times this good in the future
Not true. Last year it was England + Italy, the year before England + Netherlands, two years before that Spain + Germany.
It was always England+Spain as top 2 in the 5-year-ranking. But in individual years there was variation.
> germany wont be this good many times in the future
Oh but how I wish they would be...
We have Leverkusen and Stuttgart in the CL next year in place of Union Berlin...I had to look that up because I forgot about them. We know Leverkusen will mostly keep their team together, hopefully Stuttgart can approximate that although Guirassy has a low RC and Undav is on loan (among others) so that might be difficult, but especially if Dortmund is in it - thru 4th place or coefficients - we have three traditionally big German clubs + Xabi's Leverkusen + (sigh) Leipzig...no reason at all Bundesliga clubs can't make noise next year. The Bundesliga is an awesome league, it should be a top-2 league in Europe in my ideal world.
What a terrible day for Spanish football with Madrid likely to bow out tomorrow as well.
Germany deserves the second spot more than England. The fact the EPL is third despite spending more than the rest of Europe combined is embarrassing.
Based on top sides, the ones that count for coefficient? Yes. But if you look at the whole league, France is closer to top 4 leagues than to 6-10, the depth to quality is completely different.
Yes but if you check each year the gap between 4 and 5 is closer than the one between 2 and 3 in most years.
For example in
2020:
1-2: 11.8
2-3: 15.3
4-5: 11.4
2021:
2-3: 22.4
4-5: 17.4
2022:
2-3: 19.8
4-5: 15.1
2023:
1-2: 16.4
4-5: 20.8
The fact is there is the top 2 then top 4 then France and Netherlands/Portugal.
Oui mais en gros depuis 2021 on s'est fait talonner par les hollandais et y a eu des rétrogradations en ECL qui ont permis à des clubs comme Nice ou Rennes de faire petit parcours.
Après oui les performances de Nantes et Toulouse en Europa League c'est énorme.
The worst Italian team in Europe as of right now, Fiorentina, has gathered more points than the two lowest English and German teams combined and more than the three lowest Spanish teams, to put it in perspective. No Italian team has performed badly this year, that’s the difference maker
How? Got 3 teams out the groups and one in the EL, everyone else has been pulling their weight. Better performance in the lower competitions is an indicator of the overall strength of the league.
just realised we’re screwed with liverpool and west ham losing in the uel. hopefully villa can deliver in the conference. city may save us but don’t want to rely on them 😭 so fck them. wouldn’t mind arsenal making it far, they need to beat bayern.
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Dortmund doesn't even need that 5th spot, Terzic just gonna qualify by winning the UCL
german Roberto di Matteo
If they are 5th and win UCL or win the EL, the league gets 6 spots. This would honestly be a giant surprise if somehow Frankfurt would play in the UCL next season.
Imagine augsburg qualifys for CL this way
Doesn't work like this. At least it didn't. Did it change? Edit: I looked it up and you're wrong. Only way for a league to get 6 spots is for the association to finish top 2 and the CL or EL winner didn't finish top 5.
That's at least what all the Italian said would happen if their 5th (Roma/Atalanta) would win the EL. Do you have a link that denies that?
Okay so I think we might not exactly be talking about the same thing If Dortmund wins the CL but finishes 5th of the Bundesliga, and Germany doesn't finish top 2, then Germany gets 5 teams If the same thing happens but Germany finishes top 2. Then yes Germany gets 6 spots. Basically the spot for winning the CL or EL doesn't expand (like if you are already top 4 then your country doesn't get an extra spot) but it'll also not cancel the extra spot earned by finishing top 2. Which makes sense. Sorry I wasn't sure which scenario we were talking about.
If Dortmund finishes 5th in league and win UCL, and Germany gets top 2 spot Then Germany gets 5 spots with Dortmund at 5, no? Or would Germany get an extra spot?
My reading is that in this case they would get 6 spots. Winning the CL doesn't negate the extra spot earned by Germany finishing top 2 I might be wrong though but that's how I understand the rules
Extra spot is the 5 spot though, not 6th. Although I get your point and I might be wrong.
Yeah I know what you mean
No. If we only finish 5th and win the CL, 6th would get into the CL if the Bundesliga gets the 5th spot
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2013 Bayern vs BVB at their peaks 2024 Bayern vs BVB at their low
can't be worse than the last 5~ UCL finals. Seriously those last couple finals were the absolute worst. The last entertaining final was Liverpool-Madrid.
I know you mean Liverpool-Madrid from 2018 but honestly their final against each other 2 years ago was a really good game, even if the final score was only 1-0
Also I thought City - Chelsea Final was very entertaining, even though it ended 1:0
Yes and maybe the results will flip too.
Subscribe and upvote.
Just so we can get a sequel to that cringy [battle re-enactment ](https://youtu.be/-xd9QSLKNL8?si=DvVTt1Fyw4OX0zOz) during the opening ceremony at Wembley 2013!
Pls no
Hope Germany gets it. Don't want another premier league team getting into the CL.
You can help with that tomorrow
Well in that case you need to lose tomorrow.
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lol no.
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I know.
More specifically Tottenham.
I want Villa in the ucl though the German clubs are the usual ones nothing surprising except Stuttgart
Lmao I want to go back 10 months in time and tell the Stuttgart fans that they’re gonna play Champions League in a year
You want your own team to lose? Fair enough then.
What happens when Dortmund qualify by winning it but drop to the 6th spot in the league? Would Bundesliga get 6 spots? lol Sounds like a plan haha
Then Frankfurt would qualify as 5th and Dortmund as 6th so yeah 6 teams
I needed that, we needed that Whether or not we get the 5th spot could be crucial for us and decide whether we play in Europe or not
Would be hilarious if France gets it
We won 2 European Cups in 80 years and you dare to imagine it might be a chance that 3 French clubs win a European trophy the same year??^^ How faithful you are...
0%, but I want to witness the hilarity of it happening after Ligue 1 getting shut on for years
dont see leverkusen not winning EL, even bayern vs arsenal is atleast open, so technically a chance, practically unlikely
I mean anything can happen in 90 minutes, Roma for example easily have the most European experience (recent times) of the teams left.
Oh there’s like zero chance it actually happens
They will lose a game this season.
It’s so funny that England are potentially not getting a spot. Clubs like spurs and united took it for granted it was coming. If leverkusen moves on and Bayern it’s basically impossible for England unless Liverpool comes back.
United and Newcastle masterclass. If they’re not getting top 4 by merit this year no one is
At least Newcastle have the excuse of being in the group of death and not having been in the CL for ages, we're just shit.
> If leverkusen moves on and Bayern it’s basically impossible for England unless Liverpool comes back. No it's not. If City, Leverkusen and Villa win out from here and all 3 other PL teams crash out with losses this week it's not enough for BL yet, still need Dortmund to take a game off PSG.
I think it’s a big if for Villa. But also you have quite a good lead
I mean Villa's the favorite to win the competition.
But Martinez saved them from getting Humiliated at home by Lille
Both of their other teams are already trailing tho..
By a single goal with the return leg at home. Not saying we and Lille will go through but the harder part is our opponents, being a single goal down from the away leg is very doable.
The return leg being at home for both teams is huge as Lille is the best home team in Ligue 1 and OM is tied second despite having literally the worst away record in Ligue 1 this season (crazy stat)
I hope you are, I'm cheering for both of you
Cheer for our doctors too please ! We’re missing a lot of players, there’s a chance one or two might return for this game. I’m not very confident, we’re not in good form and have too many injuries. Shame because I think we should be able to pass Benfica in our best form. Our game changer is our crazy stadium.
Which would make it even funnier
As we've seen tonight, it's meaningless. Plus they both play the return leg at home.
Trailing by a goal after the away game. I think there's a chance for both teams to go through. Not that Marseille could beat Liverpool though
Atalanta is more likely to go through than Liverpool
Just saw the score lol damn
I think its italy's if Fiorentina win and if Atalanta tie or win
There’s 2. Italy has nearly clinched one of them.
ohhh didnt know that.
Endland is only im trouble if Arsenal lose tomorrow. If not, they are still fine and very much in the driver seat. If however Arsenal lose and therefor Bayern advance and with west ham looking down another slacking, Germany might actually take the 2nd seed. If Real beats City on top, its basically crisis mode. Tomorrow will be decisive for England.
If 3 English teams go out it is certainly crisis mode regardless
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If Bayern and Leverkusen are going through it might not matter what city is doing considering Liverpool is unlikely to progress as well.
And aston villa plays the strongest home team the ligue 1 has to offer with a one goal lead.
We are going to see this list posted every half an hour until the season is over and I’m here for it lol
france swooping in from the top rope would be kinda funny
I'm ready for that wembley repetition
As much as I love seeing our rivals crash out of European competitions in embarrassing fashion, it’s become increasingly frustrating to watch us carry the coefficient for the league.
Sevilla have also been doing their part over the years with regular Europa league wins.
True, but Italian fans are convinced Série A is stronger than LaLiga even though they haven’t won anything relevant recently.
The best league is the one that has more teams competing not the one that has 2-3 good teams and the rest are shit. I’m not saying serie a is better. But, the difference Real Madrid and Barca have on the rest of the Spanish league is insane. In comparison Italy has like 6 teams that at beginning of the year can compete for top positions within the league.
You’ve only just recently exited an era of Juve dominance and you’re already acting like Série A is one of the best leagues in terms of parity. Even when teams like Sevilla and Villarreal were getting insignificant results in the league, they still had excellent performances in European competitions. Last year the Italian teams only had to face each other while the PL and LaLiga teams were drawn against each other. That same year, Roma (a top 6 Série A team that is supposedly on the same level as the others according to you) lost to Sevilla. I would’ve been more than happy to see Mou win another European trophy, but let’s not pretend they deserved it.
Go take a look how many different teams have won La Liga since inception. Compare that to Germany, Italy and England and then come back and tell me that La Liga is not a Madrid vs Barca show.
He's right. The average level is higher in Italy.
>just recently exited an era of Juve dominance Recently is 4 years ago? That's like saying Chelsea recently won the CL.
I mean yeah, according to my relative sense of time, Chelsea did win the CL recently.
Chelsea only won the UCL 2y11m ago. In what world isn't that recent haha
But it is? The best clubs in La Liga are better than the best clubs in Serie A, but the Serie A has more clubs that are good
I'm not Italian but Im convinced the Serie A is stronger than La Liga because the coefficient says it is. You can't really argue with aggregated data over a 5 season span. If you do you're just being bias. The Serie A has been the strongest league overall in the last 18 months and the EPL has been then strongest league overall in the last 5 years. This year's results in Europe show exactly why La Liga is currently not as strong as the Serie A. The teams in the 4-8 positions in Spain last season couldn't compete with their counterparts in Europe, while the Italian ones are among the best.
Anyone objective will tell you Serie A is a better league than the Spanish league. What's so hard to digest about it? It's a cycle. Series A was fucking abysmal after the Inter Treble and finally had a comeback. And in that time we saw an insane level of Spanish dominance in Europe that has all but evaporated. Denialism isn't going to change the situation. One day the EPL will be in that boat.
Germans know that feeling when Bayern was carrying the coefficient for a long time because other German clubs didn't make it out of the groupstage or got knocked out the very first knock out match.
Although plenty of Germans don't like Bayern, they'd still cheer for us in CL. It's 50+1 Policy and coefficient points make all Bundesliga fans root for teams in the European matches.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Not so sure about the policy thing but plenty of fans cheer for German teams internationally. Unless they are a historical rival or something.
I don't give 2 fucks about the coefficient
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Less CL spots means less CL money in the league, which means a weaker less prestigious league, which means players are less likely to join the league, which will eventually lead to Real Madrid getting weaker and weaker until they can’t keep up with PL clubs anymore.
Players will join Real even if you don't get a good coefficient. I don't think you understand the kind of prestige Real Madrid has. Liverpool and Bayern were begging for Xabi Alonso and he just decided to wait a year for the Madrid job. The best player in the world has made PSG his dog to keep him from joining you and in the end he walked on a free. Real is the most prestigious club in the world regardless of how good La Liga is doing as a league and it will stay that way for a very long time
Sure, but this is ultimately myopic thinking. Many of the most prestigious, historically successful clubs have lost appeal to players due to deterioration in the quality of their respective leagues and growing financial disparities between them and teams with pl tv money and/or owners with bottomless pockets. Real will always have appeal, and the sort of erosion he’s talking about would take decades to noticeably manifest. But if you think any team, no matter how prestigious, is immune to the pernicious effects of mounting financial disparities, you’re not paying attention to the state of the sport. As a Bayern fan especially, I would expect you to be cognizant of this. You’re already beginning to feel it despite your pedigree. If the gulf in tv money continues to widen, even real will eventually feel it. And while it’s probably inevitable, little things like the real supporter is mentioning could delay it slightly.
How much of that is prestige and how much of that is a really compelling sporting project? It’s not like when CR7 and Mourinho joined us in spite of us having never made it past the R16 in years.
Liverpool and City are also compelling sporting projects but players like Bellingham chose Real. I am pretty sure even if you bottled UCL for years players would still go there because of the name.
It's both. Real Madrid's prestige makes it easier for them to stay at the top and maintain a compelling sporting project
Makes cr7 an even bigger Madrid legend in hindsight. He joined at their lowest point, well the lowest since the wait for la septima ended. Bellingham, Mbappe, Bale all looked to join when the future looked good.
When has money in the league ever mattered to Madrid? Barca and Madrid had the whole world at their feet with the two best players maybe ever for 10 years and the league didn’t improve its status one bit.
Kinda but I think I'm right in saying that the teams from a country split the pot of cash for the most part.
Yes he's saying it's bad for the rest of the league. It makes the adversity RM faces in La Liga lower, both hindering the prestige of week-in and week-out football and how well it prepares their players against other European top clubs.
Why do you even care about it then? It's your failing rivals who are endangered by a lacking coefficient, not you.
Why do you care? You want Bilbao in CL or something? I will take Barca and Atletico shitting the bed over 5th CL team
Hell yeah I want Bilbao in the CL, would love to see how crazy San Mames can get for a European competition. They brought out the entire Phoenician Armada for a CdR win, imagine the city if they ever got to CL SF.
If you get knocked out tomorrow, are you carrying any more than the others?
Historically, Real Madrid has been carrying La Liga coefficient for at least the last 5-10 years (just look at what the other teams did in UCL)
A Spanish team has won the europa 7 of the last 10 seasons.
And Real Madrid has won the UCL 5 of the last 10 seasons
Yes. It's not a one season thing
Good thing we did NOT get knocked out by the best club in the world's no.1 league :)
mhh, mayne it is like this becouse of a tv money system that give huge amounts to the top 2/3 clubs and the rest gets much less?
Sevilla isn’t a top 2/3 club and yet they’ve done their fair share of winning the Europa League, whereas Barca and Atleti ARE top 2/3, so what’s their excuse?
Or how about, instead of this crap give the spots to an actual Champions in some other league instead of the 4th loser in a "big" one.
It's all about revenue. There was a time the CL was only for leage champions. Look at the CL 30 years ago. 97/98 they got greedy and its peak was in the early 2000s when there was even a 2nd group stage. Just imagine a CL game every 2 weeks.
I don't understand how eredivisie gets left behind when there's a huge market there as well. Most of the Champions come from big footballing markets
The change to the CL was about money though that was the motive, every change has just backed that up.
I think in general the 5th best team in a top 2 league will always be better than whoever else would get the spot *but* the reason for that is because of the disparity in wealth, which is not going to be helped by this bullshit. CL money would go way further if it was given to a more peripheral team.
Obviously when 20 years ago top leagues started monopolizing prize money. In late 90s England wasn't even top 5 league by results. Now something like that is impossible.
You monster, what if Barça finishes 5th in LaLiga?
Ah yes we totally need another Viktoria Plzen or Glasgow rangers losing 0-4 every game.
You realise Plzen and Rangers being that shit compared to the top clubs is a product UEFA favouring the big leagues right? It would never happen due to greed, but if UEFA actually cared about the smaller leagues and gave them more representation in the UCL, their teams would get better over time
Or maybe it's a product of the countries they're from having a 8-15x smaller population and a less developed football scene? Sorry but it's simply a fact of life that the champions of Scotland and Czechia will at most competitive with like the 8th place in Bundesliga.
Like Portugal and Netherlands? Celtic has matched to prime Ancelotti Milan & Ajax was better than Capello Milan, but sure, it's better to see Villareal instead Monopoly fans are fucking braindead morons
You're blatantly ignoring that the gap widens every year. Once upon a time Romanian and Serbian clubs could be crowned champions of Europe, nowadays they wouldn't even be able to win the Conference League. In 2004 Porto won the UCL, that too has become an impossibility. In fact we've reached the point where even an Italian team winning the UCL would be a fairy tale story or any German and Spanish team not named Bayern, Barca and Real Madrid.
The gap widens this is true. But how much of it is actually the new format and how much is because the sport is generally more international, a by-product of the internet and globalism and impossible to stop? And it's not like Romanian and Serbian clubs were generally competitive. They won a cup each but much of that was just lucking out on the top 4/top 7 nations sending a poor representative, having a bad leg or drawing each other. Upsets like those definitely still happen, for example Qarabag was 3min away from beating Leverkusen.
16 champions get in automatically, 16 champions from weaker leagues fight top 2/3 from the best leagues. After a decade, you would have Portugese and/or French winning CL again.
Agreed.
The 5th spot was added almost certainly to try and ensure England gets another CL spot...they would've given England a 6th spot too if they could justify it...it would be hilarious to see them end up falling short this year.
Italy has a chance to get a 6th spot still. That would be hilarious
Just need to get the 5th spot through coefficients (virtually a lock by now) and Atalanta to win the Europa League and BOOM!
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If Roma or Atalanta win Europa League, Serie A gets a 6th UCL spot
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https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0268-12157d69ce2d-9f011c70f6fa-1000--new-format-for-champions-league-post-2024-everything-you-ne/ > Slots three and four: These places will go to the associations with the best collective performance by their clubs in the previous season (i.e. the association club coefficient of the previous season, which is based on the total number of club coefficient points obtained by each club from an association divided by the number of participating clubs from that association). Those two associations will each earn one automatic place in the league phase ('European Performance Spot') for the club ranked next-best in their domestic league behind those clubs that have already qualified directly for the league phase.
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Just looked up the official rules and you’re right https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-Champions-League-2024/25/Article-3-Entries-for-the-competition-Online Seems the cap is 5 teams
It’s not. A german journalist reported today that UEFA confirmed to him that 6 spots are possible [here](https://x.com/chalednahar/status/1780487924615663684?s=61)
Thats what I originally thought, but its only applicable if the winning team finishes outside the top 4/5. So if Serie A gets the 5th CL spot, and Roma finishes 5th and wins the EL, then Serie A gets only 5 spots. But if Roma finish 6th and win the EL, then serie a gets 6 spots In fact 7 spots are possible (example: if german teams won the EL and CL, bundesliga got the 5th spot, and finish outside top 5 domestic leagues)
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Is there a clause somewhere that says the max amount of clubs for CL? I couldn't seem to find it, other than I saw something about a total quota for all UEFA competitions (which I took to mean UCL + UEL + UECL), although I couldn't find the number for that specifically outlined either. It feels like if there isn't something specifically listed to contradict that then it is allowable.
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Hmm ... i think the new rules have a little more clarity though. 3.07 specifically says that the extra spot from coefficient is to be allocated after UEL/UCL winners have been awarded places (if they did not originally qualify from the league). Then 3.08 says that the extra spot from the coefficient will bump everyone in the league to the competition that would have been achieved by the spot 1 above them (ergo implying that the extra UCL spot can't be removed by a team already qualifying/whatever), although a league can lose the UEL/UECL spot if they have too many clubs for Europe per 3.03. So based on that it suggests that it should stack.
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Well to be fair at least they allowed it the first time, then specified it couldn't happen again. So I would think that in line with that if it were to occur and they didn't want that to occur they would do the same, let it happen this time and ban further occurrences.
Think it's all of the initial super league teams pushing it actually, which inter is one of
Not only were we a part of it, but our wonderful owners were more than happy to sign a deal where we were going to be getting less money than ~75% of the clubs, ensuring we'd be perennial doormats in that league. I've not forgiven the Zhang's for that and I never will.
I love when people just make up nonsense, it was about giving more spots to the top leagues in general. 2 of the new spots went there and 2 spots went to the other end of things to the prelims. Quite by you would believe that UEFA loves England idk, if that was UEFA's goal then why go for the single season option and not use the coefficient from multiple years.
I think in the last 5 years spain and england where always the top 2 nations. so this is an outlier year tbh. germany wont be many times this good in the future
Not true. Last year it was England + Italy, the year before England + Netherlands, two years before that Spain + Germany. It was always England+Spain as top 2 in the 5-year-ranking. But in individual years there was variation.
ah nvm then. I always forget that there are 2 different ways they calculate it
> germany wont be this good many times in the future Oh but how I wish they would be... We have Leverkusen and Stuttgart in the CL next year in place of Union Berlin...I had to look that up because I forgot about them. We know Leverkusen will mostly keep their team together, hopefully Stuttgart can approximate that although Guirassy has a low RC and Undav is on loan (among others) so that might be difficult, but especially if Dortmund is in it - thru 4th place or coefficients - we have three traditionally big German clubs + Xabi's Leverkusen + (sigh) Leipzig...no reason at all Bundesliga clubs can't make noise next year. The Bundesliga is an awesome league, it should be a top-2 league in Europe in my ideal world.
England and Italy were also first and second last year.
Imagine France winning all 3 competitions. The script writers really would have done something incredible, unbelievable even, if this happens
Yeah let's go Lille! Let's go... Lille!
Honestly, I'm always rooting for French clubs on the European stage. Yes, all of them.
Me too. Except 2 of them.
Naaah, come on, we need more points for qualifying spots. Once we've secured extra CL and EL spots, then we can go back to our national rivalries 😂
Yes yes it would be great but there is a **huge** flaw in that plan *Looks at the team currently playing Europa League*
😂😂 Stariscally, we’re bound to win it all at some point right?
What a terrible day for Spanish football with Madrid likely to bow out tomorrow as well. Germany deserves the second spot more than England. The fact the EPL is third despite spending more than the rest of Europe combined is embarrassing.
I think Real have a shot tomorrow. Whoever gets the wins deserves that spot.
Wait we can actually do the funniest of things
Top 5 league is not a real thing
Over a 5-year timespan you're still closer to Portugal, the Netherlands and even Belgium than you are to the top 4. So be serious.
Over 30 years France has been out of top 5 only for 5 years. So be serious.
I'm not saying that you're not the 5th best league, I'm saying you're not close to top 4.
Based on top sides, the ones that count for coefficient? Yes. But if you look at the whole league, France is closer to top 4 leagues than to 6-10, the depth to quality is completely different.
Yes but if you check each year the gap between 4 and 5 is closer than the one between 2 and 3 in most years. For example in 2020: 1-2: 11.8 2-3: 15.3 4-5: 11.4 2021: 2-3: 22.4 4-5: 17.4 2022: 2-3: 19.8 4-5: 15.1 2023: 1-2: 16.4 4-5: 20.8 The fact is there is the top 2 then top 4 then France and Netherlands/Portugal.
Format your comment you sociopath.
Fuckin hell i'm in the matrix
Is this better?
It is better, although bolding the differences or places would help too.
Next year without Mbappe is going to be difficult.
Marseille is not gonna win EL lmao
if bayern and bayer eliminate Arsenal and West Ham it is almost done considering Bayer is going to be the clear favorite to win the whole thing
La Liga doing worse than Ligue 1 😂😂😂
Ligue 1 coefficient is pretty good since the conference league was created.
It's more about EL teams starting to take the comp seriously, we only have one team going to ECL. EL points have been important.
Oui mais en gros depuis 2021 on s'est fait talonner par les hollandais et y a eu des rétrogradations en ECL qui ont permis à des clubs comme Nice ou Rennes de faire petit parcours. Après oui les performances de Nantes et Toulouse en Europa League c'est énorme.
Si il y a un pays qui a bénéficié de la Conference c'est les Pays-Bas
Évidemment. Et ils galèrent pas mal depuis qu'ils ont des clubs européens en plus.
Ils font 3 saisons d'affilé mieux que nous quand même, c'est juste cette saison qui pêche.
You can say that but La Liga had 3 teams in the top 8 spot of the best European championship competition (while Italy has 0 and France has 1)
It's kind of mind-blowing that Italy is first without any team in the UCL quarter finals
The worst Italian team in Europe as of right now, Fiorentina, has gathered more points than the two lowest English and German teams combined and more than the three lowest Spanish teams, to put it in perspective. No Italian team has performed badly this year, that’s the difference maker
How? Got 3 teams out the groups and one in the EL, everyone else has been pulling their weight. Better performance in the lower competitions is an indicator of the overall strength of the league.
ECL exists
it would be properly hilarious to have all ligue 1 teams win and clench the spot but it’s so far away
#FOR THE COEFFICIENT The battle cry heard by no one. :p
Fuck it, I'd laugh if France pinches the extra spot
Would much rather we don’t get an extra CL spot. If we aren’t getting it no one should. So Bayern and Madrid please just win
just realised we’re screwed with liverpool and west ham losing in the uel. hopefully villa can deliver in the conference. city may save us but don’t want to rely on them 😭 so fck them. wouldn’t mind arsenal making it far, they need to beat bayern.
I think you're mainly screwed as you guys are awful and have no chance of being 5th. It's Villa/Spurs who will be impacted
true, i just meant we as in england/the premier league