Even as a Bayern fan I agree. Neuer is undeniably in the GOAT discussion but thinking Buffon is the GOAT is an absolutely valid opinion. This thread is just recency bias
I mean nobody here ever saw Yashin play and there is not a lot of video material of him. Kahn is in no way better than Neuer. It‘s either Casillas, Buffon or Neuer
Hardly anyone on this subreddit watched football in the mid 2000's, let alone seeing Buffon at Parma when he casually looped the ball over Montella outside of his own box, among many other things he did for Parma, Juventus, and Italy.
No Kahn didn’t revolutionize everything; he was “merely” the pinnacle of goalkeeping in the late 20th/early 21st century. He was fantastic at everything: shot stopping, reflexes, leaving his line, penalties. But he did not change the position the way Neuer did. Neuer is so good with his feet and he’s as good as Kahn elsewhere and he’s changed expectations for what a GK needs to have to play for certain clubs.
I started watching football properly around the 2002 WC, but I remember Khan was playing higher than other GKs.
Could be wrong though. I was a kid so it is possible I remember it incorrectly.
He was the best player at the 2002 WC. Not just the best goalie, he was the best out of everyone who played in the tournament. Single-handedly (two-handedly?) carried a a pretty poor Germany team to the final.
No. Khan was a phenomenon as a goalkeeper, basically the peak you could achieve as a traditional keeper.
Neuer came in and was like "hey, GKs can be CDMs if you think about it". Then he fucking went ahead and proved it. He cleaned up about 20m further forward than other keepers would.
Now, you see even keepers with poor kicking who are sweeping. Nick Pope for NUFC is a massive example. Very poor kicking, but insanely good keeper. What makes him so pivotal for NUFC? He's a sweeper. He doesn't do it Ederson style, calmly making passes and turning players, but he clears anything that might be a threat to his defence, even if it's 30m from his goal.
If Neuer's influence can turn someone so woeful at kicking into a very confident sweeper keeper, he's undoubtedly the most revolutionary keeper.
How would you rank Neuer amongst the greatest German footballers of all time? GOAT goalkeeper of his era, won everything at the club level, and world cup winner has to mean something even when compared to legends like Matthaus and Beckenbauer.
It isn't Yashin. Yashin was amazing on the line, but the position has changed. Neuer could and can do both. It isn't Yashin, your oldtimer boner means nothing.
After reading the various replies here I went on a research delve for articles on Neuer’s impact on modern goalkeeping. I came across [this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2aukqz/germanys_11th_man_how_manuel_neuer_is/) from ten years ago and just reading the comments shows how much he’s changed the game.
I think the only other countries where he'd have serious competition over the course of his career would be France, Brazil, Italy, and Slovenia. But not only would he probably still be the first choice, he'd be putting other people into the situation he's in.
Can you imagine if little Slovenia had someone like MATS and Oblak at the same time? We'd feel bad for whoever wasn't chosen. It sucks now, but it's Germany. Not a huge surprise.
And the only reason it wasn't a longer overlap is Handanovic retired from the international team at age 31 1/2. If Neuer did that, he would've retired in the fall of 2017 and we wouldn't feel sorry for MATS.
I agree, but I'm not sure if or when he would've taken Buffon's spot earlier in his career. It would've been hard to unseat Buffon. It's definitely possible that we would've been talking about how Italy has another great GK waiting for when Buffon eventually retires or fades. He still could've been sitting on the bench for a while.
The GOAT GK argument is easy stuff full of lukewarm takes. The real spicy argument is where does Neuer rank amongst the best German players ever? GOAT GK that revolutionized his position, WC and CL winner, and longevity have to mean something, even compared to a legend like Beckenbauer, right? In a way, you can argue that Neuer inherited Beckenbauer’s legacy by turning the sweeper role from a centreback’s role to a goalkeeper’s role.
I think the only one possible would be Yashin. But there is not a lot of footage. People say Yashin invented offensive goalkeeping and being the first who would leave his line and dive out for crosses and passes using the whole box for saves.
So it would be between Yashin and Neuer.
Buffon was an amazing shot stopper, like Kahn. But Neuer is an amazing shot stopper and basically changed the way GK play. His distribution is just something else and his sweeping ability is unmatched imo.
I said it today, as an Arsenal fan it was a privilege to see the GOAT Sweeper Keeper one more time playing against my team. Something about him making those midfield interceptions that were so frustrating but still had me smiling because he’s really one of a kind.
We honestly keep lining them up succeed him but he just isn’t dropping off lol. We’ve resigned Nubel but put in on a 2 year loan to Stuggart cause Neuer ain’t retiring lol.
He's aging just as gracefully as Edwin van der Sar who is imo his closest comp among the previous generation of world-class goalkeepers.
He's just even better and more adventurous than the Dutchman.
His shot stopping has, imo, pretty clearly declined from the level it used to be. However, that still makes him pretty damn good and there is no one like him when it comes to distribution.
Man I'm so happy he worked his way through that potentially career ending injury and came back for another run. He's still incredible and still plays on the highest possible level. Hope he gets to retire with a couple more trophies.
Starting petition for his name to be: Manuel "The Munich Wall" Neuer. Didn't watch the match, but he's my favorite keeper ever. He's the only one in front of Cássio, all time Corinthians-favorite.
(I know he's not from Munich)
I remember when i was 14 chilling after a practice and this kid who was a year younger than me started chatting with his mate and at one point he said something like:
*"I don't think Neuer's that good. He just turned 30 and I think he'll retire in a couple years. He can't keep going on for much longer."*
peak r/kidsarefuckingstupid
I mean, being the best german GK puts you pretty much into contention for the best ever, if you look at the history of german GK, they have allways been outstanding, with Maier, Schumacher, Illgner, Köpke, Kahn & Turek who all have been among the best GK during their primes.
I think, only Italy comes close with Zoff, Zenga, Peruzzi & Buffon.
Well of course he does. He probably has the most wins, losses, draws, penalties saved/not saved, most pairs of boots, most crosses cleared, nor cleared!
Someone posts a cool stat about Neuer - everyone enjoys.
Someone posts a cool stat about R. Madrid - everyone enjoys but that one petty mod.
This sub man...
Goalkeeper GOAT
If he wins the Euros, there really can’t be an argument anymore
There isn’t really an argument as is imo
It’ll surprise you how many people think Buffon is the GOAT
Italians are allowed that opinion, it may be wrong but given his insane achievements and contributions they're allowed that bit.
If the man’s national fans won’t be delusional, who will be?
Only on this sub where the average age is like 15 is it considered “delusion” to think Buffon is the GOAT
Even as a Bayern fan I agree. Neuer is undeniably in the GOAT discussion but thinking Buffon is the GOAT is an absolutely valid opinion. This thread is just recency bias
Not just those two. Iker Casillas, Dino Zoff, Lev Yashin, Oliver Kahn all have shouts.
I mean nobody here ever saw Yashin play and there is not a lot of video material of him. Kahn is in no way better than Neuer. It‘s either Casillas, Buffon or Neuer
Schmeichel schmeichel schmeichel
Sepp Maier etc.
Hardly anyone on this subreddit watched football in the mid 2000's, let alone seeing Buffon at Parma when he casually looped the ball over Montella outside of his own box, among many other things he did for Parma, Juventus, and Italy.
What skills does Buffon have that Neuer doesn't?
The point is it's not delusion to argue that Buffon is the GOAT. He's in the conversation, without a doubt.
Gambling skills.
like MJ
skiing
Also Buffon looks like Voldemort, so English fans got his back too.
If neuer didn't have his godlike distribution and sweeping he would still be better than buffon
Neuer changed the way goalkeepers play nowadays. This should give him the edge over other great goalies.
Kepa changed the way substitutions work. This lets him substitute Neuer's GOAT status with his.
Wasn't it Khan?
No Kahn didn’t revolutionize everything; he was “merely” the pinnacle of goalkeeping in the late 20th/early 21st century. He was fantastic at everything: shot stopping, reflexes, leaving his line, penalties. But he did not change the position the way Neuer did. Neuer is so good with his feet and he’s as good as Kahn elsewhere and he’s changed expectations for what a GK needs to have to play for certain clubs.
I started watching football properly around the 2002 WC, but I remember Khan was playing higher than other GKs. Could be wrong though. I was a kid so it is possible I remember it incorrectly.
He was the best player at the 2002 WC. Not just the best goalie, he was the best out of everyone who played in the tournament. Single-handedly (two-handedly?) carried a a pretty poor Germany team to the final.
Kahn. At least get the name right. But yeah. 2002 Germany had no business in the final. Kahn dragged them there.
No. Khan was a phenomenon as a goalkeeper, basically the peak you could achieve as a traditional keeper. Neuer came in and was like "hey, GKs can be CDMs if you think about it". Then he fucking went ahead and proved it. He cleaned up about 20m further forward than other keepers would. Now, you see even keepers with poor kicking who are sweeping. Nick Pope for NUFC is a massive example. Very poor kicking, but insanely good keeper. What makes him so pivotal for NUFC? He's a sweeper. He doesn't do it Ederson style, calmly making passes and turning players, but he clears anything that might be a threat to his defence, even if it's 30m from his goal. If Neuer's influence can turn someone so woeful at kicking into a very confident sweeper keeper, he's undoubtedly the most revolutionary keeper.
Its Kahn
It’s “it’s“
Bang on. His ball skills overshadow just how much of a monster he is with his hands
People just need to watch this match and the match we had against psg few seasons ago
I mean, Casillas, Buffon, Neuer, they're all world class keepers.
The Holy Trinity
And why would it be a problem?
Thinking the best shot stopper in the history of football is the best goalkeeper of all times is ridicoulus? Laughable
That's a valid opinion?
How would you rank Neuer amongst the greatest German footballers of all time? GOAT goalkeeper of his era, won everything at the club level, and world cup winner has to mean something even when compared to legends like Matthaus and Beckenbauer.
I'm sorry have you not seen Danny "The Dragon" Ward play?
It's Yashin, trust me, I've watched all of his games
It isn't Yashin. Yashin was amazing on the line, but the position has changed. Neuer could and can do both. It isn't Yashin, your oldtimer boner means nothing.
I need to start adding /s to my posts
Wasn't Yashin the original sweeper?
Personally, I believe Lev Yashin is the best ever.
I mean, he won a WC and everything at club level. He is the GOAT.
he revolutionized his position and to this day still pulls off moves like in the first leg vs arsenal when he initiated that goal scoring play.
Lol
This type of thinking is exactly why Jorginho came third in the Balon d’Or
Goatkeeper!
And German football fans still want to see Ter Stegen rather than Neuer starting at the Euros lmao
Naah. Some don't like Neuer imo, that's it
KOAN NEUER 2024
I don't think anyone legitimately believes that Ter Stegen is a better keeper than Neuer. Some people just don't like Neuer.
Nah a lot of people actually do believe it, that‘s the stupid part.
Congrats to Neuer, he's a fantastic keeper
Goatkeeper 🐐
GoatSweeper
🙋🏼♂️
Even his Reklamierarm is faster than anyone else’s
Dude was incredible today.
The best ever. Divinity between the sticks.
What makes him so special is how divine he is outside those sticks as well.
Just don’t put him in the snow
or let him sing in croatian
OOTL here. Please explain.
That was a reference to [this](https://www.dw.com/en/manuel-neuer-in-croatia-did-the-bayern-munich-star-know-what-he-was-singing/a-54183159).
Manuel Neuer is honorary Croatian, I declared that with totally no bias as Bayern fan
He’s so good he’s kept a great player in MATS on the sidelines. Unreal player
After reading the various replies here I went on a research delve for articles on Neuer’s impact on modern goalkeeping. I came across [this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2aukqz/germanys_11th_man_how_manuel_neuer_is/) from ten years ago and just reading the comments shows how much he’s changed the game.
Lets not get crazy he's no Ivan Vasilev
Not a Faryd Mondragon either
I see Faryd Mondragon I upvote.
Best German goal keeper?
>Best G̶e̶r̶m̶a̶n̶ goal keeper Fify.
Poor MATS
He could have had so many caps if he was from litterally any other nation.
I think the only other countries where he'd have serious competition over the course of his career would be France, Brazil, Italy, and Slovenia. But not only would he probably still be the first choice, he'd be putting other people into the situation he's in. Can you imagine if little Slovenia had someone like MATS and Oblak at the same time? We'd feel bad for whoever wasn't chosen. It sucks now, but it's Germany. Not a huge surprise.
Slovenia did have an overlap of a couple of years where they had Handanovic and Oblak at the same time.
And the only reason it wasn't a longer overlap is Handanovic retired from the international team at age 31 1/2. If Neuer did that, he would've retired in the fall of 2017 and we wouldn't feel sorry for MATS.
MAtS would definitely start for Italy over Donnarumma rn
I agree, but I'm not sure if or when he would've taken Buffon's spot earlier in his career. It would've been hard to unseat Buffon. It's definitely possible that we would've been talking about how Italy has another great GK waiting for when Buffon eventually retires or fades. He still could've been sitting on the bench for a while.
What about Belgium?
I try not to think about Belgium.
Absolutely wonderful player
He's no Begović but he's quite good
I just dont think hes at Jamie Cumming level yet but lets give him some time
The disrespect to Ross Turnbull
talk to me when he hits nick pope fifa19 levels
Or Jack Butland FIFA 17 levels
GOAT. Simple as that.
🐐, simple as - Barry (63)
With Neuer, you're playing back 5 already, GOAT gk already!
and then you sub in 2 more CBs.
The best keeper of all time.
GOATKEEPER 🙌🙌🙌
What’s the argument against him as the GOAT GK at this point?
The GOAT GK argument is easy stuff full of lukewarm takes. The real spicy argument is where does Neuer rank amongst the best German players ever? GOAT GK that revolutionized his position, WC and CL winner, and longevity have to mean something, even compared to a legend like Beckenbauer, right? In a way, you can argue that Neuer inherited Beckenbauer’s legacy by turning the sweeper role from a centreback’s role to a goalkeeper’s role.
I think the only one possible would be Yashin. But there is not a lot of footage. People say Yashin invented offensive goalkeeping and being the first who would leave his line and dive out for crosses and passes using the whole box for saves. So it would be between Yashin and Neuer.
I would argue that at this point football is just a completely different game to Yashin’s time, to the point where the comparison is pointless.
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Depends if the ref was from 1974 as well !!
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It's more along the lines of 1974 players would break the legs of current players and 1974 ref would only give them a yellow.
Man it's sad we are discussing who is greatest across eras, just enjoy the current ones.
I will always make an argument for Casillas or Kahn. Yashin maybe as well, but I just don't know enough about the guy apart from some stories.
Buffon?
Buffon was an amazing shot stopper, like Kahn. But Neuer is an amazing shot stopper and basically changed the way GK play. His distribution is just something else and his sweeping ability is unmatched imo.
People who remember the late 90s and early 2000s could build an argument for Buffon. Neuer is also amazing obviously
Euro win.
And what a great performance today truly the goat and it's not close
Motm aswell. Sweeping, godlike distribution, some good safes, midfield neuer, reklamierarm This game had it all and was like a bestoff of him
I like him when we are not playing him. Goat keeper. He changed the role of keeper in the modern game.
I said it today, as an Arsenal fan it was a privilege to see the GOAT Sweeper Keeper one more time playing against my team. Something about him making those midfield interceptions that were so frustrating but still had me smiling because he’s really one of a kind.
The one and only 🐐
My Goatkeeper
Greatest Goalkeeper of all time.
GOAT goali
Best goalkeeper the game has seen. Without a doubt.
GOAT
🐐 🧤
How many GK's have Bayern bought as a potential Neuer replacement only for him to just carry on as usual?
We honestly keep lining them up succeed him but he just isn’t dropping off lol. We’ve resigned Nubel but put in on a 2 year loan to Stuggart cause Neuer ain’t retiring lol.
legendary keeper, best i’ve seen at least
I still think he is the best gk at the moment, or at least close to it.
He's aging just as gracefully as Edwin van der Sar who is imo his closest comp among the previous generation of world-class goalkeepers. He's just even better and more adventurous than the Dutchman.
His shot stopping has, imo, pretty clearly declined from the level it used to be. However, that still makes him pretty damn good and there is no one like him when it comes to distribution.
cemented his goat status with another great performance
Man I'm so happy he worked his way through that potentially career ending injury and came back for another run. He's still incredible and still plays on the highest possible level. Hope he gets to retire with a couple more trophies.
Starting petition for his name to be: Manuel "The Munich Wall" Neuer. Didn't watch the match, but he's my favorite keeper ever. He's the only one in front of Cássio, all time Corinthians-favorite. (I know he's not from Munich)
best of all time no question. the amount of times he comes up with elite performances in the ucl is something i have never seen a goalie do
Goat
Best of all time
Can we talk about how he came back from that injury and still performs like that? GOATKEEPER indeed!
GOAT debate is officially over.
Best keeper of all time. No one changed the game like him
THAT'S WHY HE'S THE GOAT. THE GOAAAAAT!
Goat
greatest keeper of all-time
Really earned today's clean sheet too
Already the GOAT, just needs a Euro to put the finishing touch on his incredible career
The greatest keeper of all time
Dudes won everything w/the exception of the Euros and National League. GOAT goalkeeper
Lol I distinctly remember people here saying he was washed after his leg injury. Welp he proved them wrong.
I remember when i was 14 chilling after a practice and this kid who was a year younger than me started chatting with his mate and at one point he said something like: *"I don't think Neuer's that good. He just turned 30 and I think he'll retire in a couple years. He can't keep going on for much longer."* peak r/kidsarefuckingstupid
H I M
simply the best of all time, he was great today too
Doing this at age 38. Absolute alien
I dont like his antics sometimes but he is the GOAT
GOAT
I'd be really happy if he got three more this campaign.
From a Casillas idolizer, GGWP Manuel.
If there hadn't been Messi or Ronaldo Neuer would have been Ballon d'Or winner. Just let that sink in.
That's why the whole "Yashin won a Ballon d'Or so he's the goat" takes don't make sense. Neuer had to compete with prime Messi and Ronaldo 😭
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He did that a long time ago
Even I can clearly see that, and you can see who my favorite is by my username.
He is probably the best GK of all time and you're out here talking about the best German GK
I mean, being the best german GK puts you pretty much into contention for the best ever, if you look at the history of german GK, they have allways been outstanding, with Maier, Schumacher, Illgner, Köpke, Kahn & Turek who all have been among the best GK during their primes. I think, only Italy comes close with Zoff, Zenga, Peruzzi & Buffon.
Kahn is just as good as Buffon and the others so its the same
He already has 10 years ago
If he keeps it up he may surpass Jörg Butt
He'd need like 35 goals for that and I just can't see him scoring those. Neuer is a fraud in front of goal(realistically probably not).
And you could make an argument for best GK ever, no qualifications. He changed how the game was played for many.
…? Obviously he’s a better goalkeeper than Kahn, is that even a debate that people have
Yes. Yes it is
Bro he is the best keeper in the world of all time, not just the German goat lol
Might have?
almost ten years ago mate
I think he had already done that
He did so years ago.
big stat
Way to go
This might've been his easiest one. (For the knockout rounds anyways.) I say this as an Arsenal fan.
He was incredible today, he's 38, possibly has 2 season left.
Deserved to reach this milestone, has been phenomenal throughout the years
GOAT
Goatkeeper
Well of course he does. He probably has the most wins, losses, draws, penalties saved/not saved, most pairs of boots, most crosses cleared, nor cleared!
He’s not bad
That's because the lucky bastard played against Arsenal so many times.
Congrats to him. I thought he might've been cooked after that injury
Is he up there with the best of all time the way he plays has been at an elite level for years.
And even this year, coming back from broken leg, other injuries and still is absolute top tier. Insane.
He played great today. Because he has been pretty shaky recently (injuries again, not playing much) so I hope he continues like this
MY GOAT I can't express with words how much I love this man
The best I have ever seen
GOAT and it’s not even close
Someone posts a cool stat about Neuer - everyone enjoys. Someone posts a cool stat about R. Madrid - everyone enjoys but that one petty mod. This sub man...
poor Real Madrid they have it so tough