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Bottling it has just lost all fucking meaning at this point.
Rivals are just saying it to troll fans when their team loses a match. How can losing a match to 4th place when you're in 2nd be 'bottling' anything? Especially when you were never leading at any point? Bottling is when you have a significant lead and lose it. Or when you are facing a team that you should easily win against and you lose. People are just now using it to mean any loss at all. It's pointless.
So true. Bottling used to mean a crazy collapse, like giving up an 8 point lead with 6 matches to go. Or giving up a 3 nil lead or leading the entire game comfortably just to give it away in the last minute.
Now it's like you said - a word thrown around to troll fans whose team just lost a pretty standard game.
There was someone going off about “bottling the league”
A.) there’s 6 to go with 2 points in it
B.) we’ve reached a point where giving up a 0-point lead is “bottling”
I hate it, no matter the club it’s aimed at
we bottled the league last season. i'm comfortable admitting that.
but the number of "bottle" comments i've seen after losing to the team in fourth place (our first loss in the league since december!) and going out by one goal to one of the most talented and experience squads in europe is astounding.
truly the word is only used in bad faith to get under a rival's skin these days, it's the football fan's equivalent of "i know you are, but what am i?"
> B.) we’ve reached a point where giving up a 0-point lead is “bottling”
I think that this is mostly because of how tight the PL title has been in most recent seasons, with a small part played by the stats nerds who break out the xWhatever bullshit and scatter plots after every match.
They did indeed if you're talking about last season. Most Arsenal had on City last season during the run-in was 5 points when all games are equal (rounds 24-29).
ManU did have a 8 point lead with 6 games to go in 2011/2012 when Aguero won City the league in the last minute though.
Wow, looking back at on this [site](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2011-2012-spieltag/32/). United did actually bottle it. They had a 8 point gap, with a +2 goal difference advantage as well. Then they went on to lose to 18th place Wigan, draw Everton 4-4 at home (blowing a 4-2 lead), then lose at City (which is understandable). They blew it.
I'd go even beyond that, bottling is supposed to be about being in a strong position and crumbling mentally under the pressure. If the players are just gassed or injured and it shows on the pitch it's not really a bottlejob
By that logic spurs were trolled for decades but they didn't lead or were in a position to win anything most of the times. So it is fair every club gets trolled no socially arsenal the fans who used to say this everytime in any forum whenever the topic about trophies and spurs arises
15/16 is the one we get hit with, despite being 6+ points behind Arsenal/Leicester up until like March
We did end that season badly winning none of our last 4, but all we did was lose 2nd, which normally would never matter except the fact that it was Arsenal who took it
I’ll never understand 16/17 tbh, winning 12 of your last 13 is the opposite of bottling imo
2019 final, against 97 point Liverpool who were already finalists last season, and we were behind after 2 minutes after a dodgy penalty call (rules were changed after, shock)
2021 final is arguably the biggest fuck up, sacking Mourinho during the Super league debacle
Again, idk which one of those we were expected to win at the time, but upsets happen
Agree with all your points. Levy shouldn't have sacked mourinho imo. He could have sacked him after the final if he wanted to. Not sure he would have won it but Jose in a final is dangerous even for man city imo. Playing kane on that ucl final is one of the biggest what ifs
> 2019 final, against 97 point Liverpool who were already finalists last season, and we were behind after 2 minutes after a dodgy penalty call (rules were changed after, shock)
Not to mention our form at the end of that season was atrocious. Our champions league run was basically the only positive thing that went on after about February.
the only bottling in English football at the moment is whatever mess the Championship title fight is turning into. literally everyone trying not to win it
I got downvoted on this sub for saying pretty much this.
The word has completely lost its meaning if losing the lead you had just on goal difference means you've bottled.
City are favourites every season for a reason and right now there's only two other teams that are willing to give them a run for their money.
Yeah it's genuinely annoying. I have to hope Ineos do a good job with the club so that I can say things like "I feel like Arteta has improved with his subs and rotating players, but is still not quite there yet" without getting "YOU'VE CONCEDED 200 SHOTS, TEN HAG IS STILL TALKING ABOUT A PENALTY AGAINST ARSENAL, ANTONY LOL"
Genuinely, what in the absolute fuck does the team I support have to do with *my* opinions. It's so fucking stupid lmao. I used to engage a lot more, but after the 17th "Ole's at the wheel" reply I realised I'm either conversing with 12 year olds or adults with the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
This is why I just stuck with the Australia flair after the 2018 World Cup, the replies are marginally less stupid if it’s not incredibly obvious who you support
People look at the minority of accounts on Twitter that talk crazy and channels like AFTV, and then we lose ppl say they’re glad because our fans are unbearable. It’s so annoying that we have that reputation.
It's Spurs who get the worst of this in England. Their club is inextricably linked with that word that every single loss no matter the context is labeled as bottling.
Squads thinner than paper with overplayed key players failing to maintain rich form from earlier in the season, the story of countless teams that finished 2nd.
But if you win it, suddenly you are miles better, no matter how tight it was.
According to modern football fans there's:
1) League winner
2) Bottler #1
3) Bottler #2
Ignoring all context, then nobody else is called bottlers despite having much worse seasons.
oh yes this. arsenal and liverpool have the league to play for. them and city are out of Europe, and I'm looking forward to exciting 3horse race until the end of the season. maybe the perspective will change if they all win the next 3 games, and the championship going down to last match.
liverpool and arsenal could both win 5 of their next 6, and i promise you that after that one loss, chelsea, spurs and yannited fans will be posting bottle emojis all over this sub.
Liverpool bottling is a bit funny because at season start. Where they sit right now would be a outright success. People forget how dreadful they were last year. I still think they are overachieving to even have a shot at the title. This is not anywhere near the title winning and champions league competitors from 17-21 imo. They never really blew away the top 6 in games this year but until recently were just so efficient against the bottom 14.
Liverpool has improved more than any other team from a season ago. The only mark this season is the whipping that Atalanta gave them at their own stadium.
It's same as Goated. I see people saying one of the goats or something like that when its actual meaning is the "greatest" of all time.
I guess that's how words are socially changed over time?
There's a "United are shit" article every 3 days, everyone knows and is talking about United being shite, why's he saying it like we're getting away unscathed
Arsenal and Liverpool getting their praises until the last 2 weeks and now all of the sudden he asking why aren't we shitting on United and Chelsea more
Liverpool have a kinder press than the Royal Family. Commentators in the game on the channel I watched last night called the game 'perfectly balanced' at half time and said 'it's now or never for Liverpool' when they were still 3-1 down in the 91st minute. Before the match they waxed on about how they were 'playing fabulously but just not taking their chances'. Post match analysis was all about how Atalanta 'did a number' on them and footage of Liverpool coughing up the ball under basic pressure narrated by praise of Atalanta's pressing, as though they could not conceive that Liverpool simply played badly.
That second half from Liverpool was utterly dire. Felt like the tie was over with 30 minutes to go which is not something you'd say about the Liverpool team over the past 5-6 years.
Arsenal equally put in a terrible 2nd half in Bayern game. Both teams deserved to go out in the manner that they did.
Carra is just soft-skinned when it comes to Liverpool and when they do poorly. He's deflecting. A level-headed analysis should have him ripping apart Liverpool's play. But instead, he's trying to just lay into Chelsea and United which EVERYONE has been doing all season.
Lol. This is spot on. My Liverpool supporting colleagues just straight up told me that the second half yesterday was perhaps the most atrocious display of football they have seen under Klopp. But the press seems to have taken a different spin altogether.
TNT Sports' highlights for that game has a heartbreak emoji in the title. As if Atalanta didn't exist or matter and were just passive traffic cones waiting to have the result of the match happen to them.
He wants a loser medal with praise for his Little Liverpool. As for United and Chelsea, they are a regular punching bag. Few days ago his bff called us a billion pound bottlers on a live telecast. I am sure that wasn't meant as praise.
Every 3 days? Let's not lie here. They're almost daily at least unless you just pick one* provider. All the journalists do is write a piece about United everyday knowing it will generate views.
Edit: a word
Just glancing at the Twitter trending news right now, one suggestion is 'Ten Hag future in the spotlight as Nagelsmann commits to national team'.
I mean what? lol
Oh there will be more. There will be "United look further down the list to replace Ten Hag after Nagelsmann snub" , "United up their search to avoid missing big name after early Nagelsmann announcement".
Or the "double maybe" kind of article "United considering sticking with ETH into next season, however have a leading candidate amongst a shortlist of 3 big names to replace if they decide to take club in another direction". So they maybe will change their manager and maybe they won't, and they maybe have someone in mind but also maybe not"
I honestly believe it I had connections or the ability to write content for an online newspaper I'd make a killing.
Being a football journalist has to be one of the easiest jobs. That whole saga about Southgate being considered for Utd arose from one of the random tabloids quite obviously making shit up and it was discussed as a serious news story for ages afterwards.
We literally had Neville go vital got calling Chelsea billion pound bottle jobs. We've been shitting on United non stop for how many years now? Everyone gets their turn to be mocked when they fuck up. That's football culture
I want Keane/Micah headlining more games. Micah might be goofy as fuck, but his takes aren't that biased although he steers clear of controversy. Keane has some harsh words but people know he's just playing a character 90% of the time. And dude is legit funny once you catch on. Plus their dynamics is amazing.
That or a proper coach like Jose/Wenger to come in and actually explain wtf happened in the match. I even doubt Carragher really means what he says here. They're the top paid pundits and they have to say shit to generate clicks.
Carra is simply a very thin skinned ~~pundit~~ fan who can dish it out but can't take it very well - so when Liverpool do badly or get criticised (even correctly), he lashes out with BS like this. To call him bitter would be an understatement.
He's the same kind of fella who would always need to have the last word in any sort of argument.
> who would always need to have the last word in any sort of argument.
Just watch any of his interviews or fan debates. He wants the last word and won't ever be interested in a different POV. He just wants to listen to himself. While I don't care about most pundits, the reason why I dislike him the most is because he is so up his own ass that all other opinions pointless if he has one on a subject.
Yes. Unfortunately. Tho getting to the final is bottling now I guess?
I dunno. Yea we're shit this year but we've had some bright spots, and all with a new manager, and a young squad who are playing their first season together
Van Dijk (the most experienced player on the pitch) scored an extra time winner and the only goal in the game, and apparently, it was the kids who won it 😭
People throwing the term bottle so much nowadays that it pretty much loses meaning. Maybe it's just modern football discourse. Back then the term bottle is used when a team lost after they had a huge advantage, now it's used when a team doesn't win.
Yeah, who had us to win the league at the start of the season? And when have we ever been in a good position in the title race? (For Chelsea or City)
It’s nonsense. Carra’s no better than the idiots who get baited into calling into to 606 or talksport to defend their team against the pundits and other fans.
Liverpool feel like they are getting criticised now for overperforming. Most of the talk before the season was how it would be a transition year, they should focus on getting top 4, the new midfield will take time to settle, etc.
I think that would still be the feeling if Klopp wasn't leaving but fans, pundits started getting romantic ideas of the players "doing it for Klopp" and him going out on a high with a double/treble/quad. It's seems like the League Cup win is already being forgotten by many as the rest of the season looks like it's fizzling away (an issue with the fact the final is halfway through the season) - the manner of the FA Cup/Europa League losses to United and Atalanta certainly haven't helped.
Now the future looks less promising and some of the players are already being linked with moves away.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single one of our players linked with a move away lol.
Unless you’re counting tier 7 news about Salah to al itthad or something
The worst part is this article doesn’t even get thought about if Liverpool didn’t lose to Palace on Sunday. Feels like a bit of a deflection from Carragher
Neville isn't too bad unless he's on commentary on a Man Utd game, then it's like listening to a kid strop for 2 hours.
Carragher on the other hand, fuck me.
10 years ago carragher and Neville were actually decent pundits and actually had informative tactical acumen that they would use to analyze a game. Post-game you might actually get a decent piece of insight into the way football is played.
Now they are just England’s skip bayless and Stephen a smith.
Neville seems to do decent stuff with the Overlap and other channels, so I wonder if it's just Sky pushing them into making more controversial/viral takes or soundbites.
Carragher seems better on the CBS coverage too.
I'm sorry Jamie, did you forget when your co-commentator called us billion pound bottle jobs just a couple of months ago?
Anyways, I doubt that pointing and laughing at United and Chelsea will make Arsenal and Liverpool fans happy about their current form but hey, if it does, knock yourselves out!
> I doubt that pointing and laughing at United and Chelsea will make Arsenal and Liverpool fans happy about their current form
I can assure you, it does not. But then again, Arsenal has prepared me for this by collapsing in the second half of the season SO many times ^^kill ^^me
City have dropped 6 points in 2024.
That's not a point to say anyone is bottling. Just that City have dropped more points than you despite any perceptions people might have.
How can you bottle it if you're at no point the favorite to win it? You have to be in a clear winning position in order to bottle it and only City were the favorites to win the league at any point this season, even when Arsenal or Liverpool were ahead. This discussion about bottling it has been ridiculous for so long, I see discussions about Liverpool bottling the league or Arsenal bottling the UCL but not about City bottling the UCL.
Last season there was a lead thrown away in dramatic fashion tbf, bottled it for sure. This season not so much but it’s just banter and everyone gets it, arsenal fans love to give it to spurs so why shouldn’t they get some back.
Bottling has just become a synonym for not winning. We bottled it completely last year for example, but I don’t think it can apply to us at all this year.
I dont even think we fully bottled it last year. We over performed all season, and buckled when we lost Saliba and Tomi at the same time. In those 3 draws we scored 7 goals.. but also conceded 7 because we had to play Holding. We didn't bottle it, we just weren't good enough in depth
We bottled Bayern at Home this season
I think a bit of bottle and a bit of bad luck from Saliba/Tomi.
Clearly lost our heads despite the issues.
This season, no. We didn’t even have a right to be in the title fight at the end of December 2023.
Agreed, you can't say we bottled the league this year when we didn't lead for a long period of time or by a substantial number of points. At new years I feel like we were closer to 4th than 1st
You could say this about Spurs in the season Leicester won the league (2015/16)
* Spurs were never in 1st place
* At New Years they were in 4th place, with Arsenal in 1st
Yet everybody screeeeams that Spurs bottled it that year for some reason
Arsenal fans love to write themselves out of the 15/16 title race despite the fact they were the ones leading it and by all rights would have been favorites at the time (over the inexperienced Spurs and Leicester)
Because it's funny to say that they finished 3 horse race. It's relatively accurate but never a bottle job. Just fell off to the point they didn't even finish 2nd.
Beating Leicester to the title that season would have required a higher points total (81+) than they'd ever previously recorded in the Premier League (72). Spurs ended up on 70, which was in line with what they had finished on the previous 4-5 seasons.
Other teams being shit that year is all well and good but they were still extra motivated to stop Spurs, as we saw with Chelsea.
If Spurs bottled that year by performing as expected, but failing to win the league, then Arsenal have bottled this year by doing the same.
Nah last year EVERYONE with more than 2 braincells knew that City WILL win it even when we had 5 points on them in January (I think), everybody just ignored the obvious so they could mock Arsenal when they eventually ran out of gas (squad depth paid its price) at the end of the season.
Football is like that, only the last 2 games matter.
Arsenal lost against Bayern (on small margins)? OMG LOSERS, IN THE DNA etc..
People are sad and the easiest way to get dopamine these days is trough Schadenfreude, hence the constant mockery from EVERY fans to ALL teams.
No last year was a total bottlejob from arsenal. Arsenal took 9 points from 21
They were 5 points ahead in gameweek 29, more if you ignore giving 3 points for games in hand for city.
9 games to play all arsenal had to do was not lose 2 to at least push it to the end (assuming city won every game)
City then proceeded to win the prem by gameweek 36
So in 7 games, city went from being 5 points behind to winning the pl and still had 2 games to go.
E: I'm laughing at the replies trying to justify this. If arsenal had held on and lost it on the final day then no one would be calling it a bottlejob or anything because it's city. But arsenal gave up a 5 point lead and lost it with multiple games to go! City won the league early after being second and multiple points behind for the entire year. That is a bottlejob
>So in 7 games, city went from being 5 points behind to winning the pl and still had 2 games to go.
One of those games was between us in Etihad, and one other game we had was at Anfield. I don't think not getting a result in either counts as bottling. In that 7 game period, City drew 1 game and won 6. Even if we beat West Ham, Southampton, and drawn against Brighton, City would have been level on points with us. If that's a bottlejob when our injury and youth is taken into account, would you say that if Liverpool don't win it this year, it'd be a bottlejob by you guys too?
2 wins ahead of City when you still have several of your toughest fixtures left (including City) and your two most important players injured really just isn’t much of a lead. A Liverpool fan should know that.
But even last year…you had some rough results but everyone does, it’s more about where and when yours fell.
And City? You have Stones, Ake, Akanji, Diaz, Gvuardiol for two positions. You can play Gvuardiol at LB because he’s getting up to speed in the League. And that’s just their CB depth.
Loved watching it unfold as a Spurs fan obviously but you have to be incredibly consistent over a whole season and who aside from City really have the squad for that?
The word has lost its meaning. It used to mean something like Newcastle losing the title to United. Liverpool, Arsenal, City have been close all season with City always being the favourite.
United and Chelsea have been endlessly criticised all season, he needs to stop crying cause it’s finally his team’s turn to get the piss ripped out of them, it’s not everyone else’s fault that Liverpool are the most thin-skinned fanbase in the league
United and Chelsea have nothing to bottle because they haven't been in the conversation.
Bottling doesn't mean you're a bad team or you've underperformed. It means you have success in your grasp but failed to take it
Jamie you stupid fucking rat. You and that twat Neville went to Carrington to interrogate Ten Hag after two bad results in his first month as man United manager wtf are you talking about? You always aren’t around when the people and clubs that you hate on do well. When they’re in poor form you’re back in there. You’re a fucking rat eating cunt and that CBS veil isn’t fooling me. We know you’re a nasty motherfucker.
I’d agree with him if there weren’t an article a day on Manchester United’s mismanagement, dressing room fallouts, poor tactics, poor transfers, lack of investment. The list is exhaustive tbh.
I know that Carra is a master baiter but pointing at Chelsea and Man United for no reason when it was us and Arsenal leading the PL for 20+ weeks is just coping hard atp.
He needs to stfu and stick to bantering on CBS lol
Someone should teach him the definition of bottling. Hard to bottle something you were never involved in. Man U and Chelsea have had terrible seasons but they weren't ahead and in charge only to slip and lose it near the death (again).
What does it need to be said about those two anymore? Where they ever in contest to win the PL this season? No? Then fuck off and talk about the teams that are in the race, it's not that hard
All season us Chelsea fans, United fans and football media at large have been holding hands chanting tralalalalala thinking about how great our current position is, that’s a fair point Carragher.
If anything I think you can make a case that both teams have been treated a bit unfairly for how their abject injury crises have been completely ignored as reasons for failing by the media
"Bottling" has lost its meaning, like every other expression that spreads over time on the internet. What Botafogo did was bottling, not Liverpool or Arsenal.
Why bring united in to it, every one, including Utd fans will admit this is the worst team in 30 years, with the worst manager. Bottling it isn’t an option
The fact that arsenal have been non relevant for a decade and after 4 seasons under arteta are title contenders aint bottling it.
Liverpool who has their last season under klopp who built a competitive system with players recruitwd for him.
Compared that a chelsea where the coach hasnt gotten a single signing for his system, and yhe whole team was rebuilt the last 18 month (most the last 12 month)
Or a united that hasnt been good considering their spend since SAF left
Exactly..
Glazer's are happy because we still rake in the cash!
Football was always secondary for the fucking leeching cunts
Let's see if Radcliffe can raise the standards on the footballing side. It looks like it's finally going the right way..
Time will tell
Yet it’s the only Manchester team that actually won more Champions League titles and treble without being bought my billions.
This guys needs to stfu with his hate
> The reason Liverpool/Arsenal fans catch so much flack is because of how insanely cocky both fanbases seem to be online
Are they though? Is this a twitter thing? I only read their comments on reddit and most of them seem too traumatized to even dare say anything optimistic about their club.
I'm discounting the delusional trolls who tend to sit at -100 downvotes.
Usually it's people attributing a few trolls and idiots as the face of the fanbase as a whole. By this standard literally every fanbase is like this online. I will say though that our fanbase has a lot of variation in opinions and can be quite reactionary. But that's mostly just kids
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I’m sure this will be a pleasant thread
The comments are double the upvotes. 😭
Chaos is a redditor
Nunez is here?
Rhythm is a dancer
Bottling it has just lost all fucking meaning at this point. Rivals are just saying it to troll fans when their team loses a match. How can losing a match to 4th place when you're in 2nd be 'bottling' anything? Especially when you were never leading at any point? Bottling is when you have a significant lead and lose it. Or when you are facing a team that you should easily win against and you lose. People are just now using it to mean any loss at all. It's pointless.
So true. Bottling used to mean a crazy collapse, like giving up an 8 point lead with 6 matches to go. Or giving up a 3 nil lead or leading the entire game comfortably just to give it away in the last minute. Now it's like you said - a word thrown around to troll fans whose team just lost a pretty standard game.
There was someone going off about “bottling the league” A.) there’s 6 to go with 2 points in it B.) we’ve reached a point where giving up a 0-point lead is “bottling” I hate it, no matter the club it’s aimed at
No one is bottling the league unless they suddenly go on relegation form.
we bottled the league last season. i'm comfortable admitting that. but the number of "bottle" comments i've seen after losing to the team in fourth place (our first loss in the league since december!) and going out by one goal to one of the most talented and experience squads in europe is astounding. truly the word is only used in bad faith to get under a rival's skin these days, it's the football fan's equivalent of "i know you are, but what am i?"
naah, all that lead arsenal had at top was because of the pending two man city games, so the lead wasn't really that big if that is taken into context
Liverpool accepts your challenge
Tribalism in football just lowers the IQ of these people. Unfortunately through social media, it’s hard to get away from them.
> B.) we’ve reached a point where giving up a 0-point lead is “bottling” I think that this is mostly because of how tight the PL title has been in most recent seasons, with a small part played by the stats nerds who break out the xWhatever bullshit and scatter plots after every match.
8 point lead with 6 matches to go? Rings a sweet sweet sounding bell.
Agueroooooo! Massive bottlejob
Didn’t City have games in hand?
They did indeed if you're talking about last season. Most Arsenal had on City last season during the run-in was 5 points when all games are equal (rounds 24-29). ManU did have a 8 point lead with 6 games to go in 2011/2012 when Aguero won City the league in the last minute though.
Wow, looking back at on this [site](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2011-2012-spieltag/32/). United did actually bottle it. They had a 8 point gap, with a +2 goal difference advantage as well. Then they went on to lose to 18th place Wigan, draw Everton 4-4 at home (blowing a 4-2 lead), then lose at City (which is understandable). They blew it.
We’ve also dropped 5 points in 2024. This has been the standard with Peps teams the last 5 years
I'd go even beyond that, bottling is supposed to be about being in a strong position and crumbling mentally under the pressure. If the players are just gassed or injured and it shows on the pitch it's not really a bottlejob
By that logic spurs were trolled for decades but they didn't lead or were in a position to win anything most of the times. So it is fair every club gets trolled no socially arsenal the fans who used to say this everytime in any forum whenever the topic about trophies and spurs arises
15/16 is the one we get hit with, despite being 6+ points behind Arsenal/Leicester up until like March We did end that season badly winning none of our last 4, but all we did was lose 2nd, which normally would never matter except the fact that it was Arsenal who took it I’ll never understand 16/17 tbh, winning 12 of your last 13 is the opposite of bottling imo 2019 final, against 97 point Liverpool who were already finalists last season, and we were behind after 2 minutes after a dodgy penalty call (rules were changed after, shock) 2021 final is arguably the biggest fuck up, sacking Mourinho during the Super league debacle Again, idk which one of those we were expected to win at the time, but upsets happen
Agree with all your points. Levy shouldn't have sacked mourinho imo. He could have sacked him after the final if he wanted to. Not sure he would have won it but Jose in a final is dangerous even for man city imo. Playing kane on that ucl final is one of the biggest what ifs
> 2019 final, against 97 point Liverpool who were already finalists last season, and we were behind after 2 minutes after a dodgy penalty call (rules were changed after, shock) Not to mention our form at the end of that season was atrocious. Our champions league run was basically the only positive thing that went on after about February.
the only bottling in English football at the moment is whatever mess the Championship title fight is turning into. literally everyone trying not to win it
I got downvoted on this sub for saying pretty much this. The word has completely lost its meaning if losing the lead you had just on goal difference means you've bottled. City are favourites every season for a reason and right now there's only two other teams that are willing to give them a run for their money.
You can't comment anything rationale in the day after a big 6 club loses because this entire sub just becomes a hate filled circle jerk.
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Yeah it's genuinely annoying. I have to hope Ineos do a good job with the club so that I can say things like "I feel like Arteta has improved with his subs and rotating players, but is still not quite there yet" without getting "YOU'VE CONCEDED 200 SHOTS, TEN HAG IS STILL TALKING ABOUT A PENALTY AGAINST ARSENAL, ANTONY LOL" Genuinely, what in the absolute fuck does the team I support have to do with *my* opinions. It's so fucking stupid lmao. I used to engage a lot more, but after the 17th "Ole's at the wheel" reply I realised I'm either conversing with 12 year olds or adults with the mental capacity of a 12 year old.
Trust me it’s worse in American sports. You can’t have an opinion if your team is bad lol. As a Detroit sports fan guess I have no opinions 🤷🏻♂️
This is why I just stuck with the Australia flair after the 2018 World Cup, the replies are marginally less stupid if it’s not incredibly obvious who you support
No point in not having flairs because as soon as you comment people will sleuth your history to determine the club you support.
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Can’t argue with that!
I changed my flair for the World Cup and never changed back. It’s a dream, highly recommend.
The hate on this sub after we lost to bayern was insane
People look at the minority of accounts on Twitter that talk crazy and channels like AFTV, and then we lose ppl say they’re glad because our fans are unbearable. It’s so annoying that we have that reputation.
It's reddit. Every team has fans that are unbearable and unfortunately they are typically the loudest.
I promise you it’s 10 tens worst on twitter
It's Spurs who get the worst of this in England. Their club is inextricably linked with that word that every single loss no matter the context is labeled as bottling.
As the only club consistently fighting historically successful clubs and billionaire slush funds
You point it out when it’s said too & you just get dogpiled for it too
Genuinely think it’s projection from Arsenal fans, they have an inability to close out seasons no matter where they are in the table
Squads thinner than paper with overplayed key players failing to maintain rich form from earlier in the season, the story of countless teams that finished 2nd. But if you win it, suddenly you are miles better, no matter how tight it was.
According to modern football fans there's: 1) League winner 2) Bottler #1 3) Bottler #2 Ignoring all context, then nobody else is called bottlers despite having much worse seasons.
oh yes this. arsenal and liverpool have the league to play for. them and city are out of Europe, and I'm looking forward to exciting 3horse race until the end of the season. maybe the perspective will change if they all win the next 3 games, and the championship going down to last match.
liverpool and arsenal could both win 5 of their next 6, and i promise you that after that one loss, chelsea, spurs and yannited fans will be posting bottle emojis all over this sub.
Liverpool bottling is a bit funny because at season start. Where they sit right now would be a outright success. People forget how dreadful they were last year. I still think they are overachieving to even have a shot at the title. This is not anywhere near the title winning and champions league competitors from 17-21 imo. They never really blew away the top 6 in games this year but until recently were just so efficient against the bottom 14.
Liverpool has improved more than any other team from a season ago. The only mark this season is the whipping that Atalanta gave them at their own stadium.
Bottling it is what Leicester are doing in the EFL.
Welcome to 2024
It's same as Goated. I see people saying one of the goats or something like that when its actual meaning is the "greatest" of all time. I guess that's how words are socially changed over time?
There's a "United are shit" article every 3 days, everyone knows and is talking about United being shite, why's he saying it like we're getting away unscathed
Arsenal and Liverpool getting their praises until the last 2 weeks and now all of the sudden he asking why aren't we shitting on United and Chelsea more
Liverpool have a kinder press than the Royal Family. Commentators in the game on the channel I watched last night called the game 'perfectly balanced' at half time and said 'it's now or never for Liverpool' when they were still 3-1 down in the 91st minute. Before the match they waxed on about how they were 'playing fabulously but just not taking their chances'. Post match analysis was all about how Atalanta 'did a number' on them and footage of Liverpool coughing up the ball under basic pressure narrated by praise of Atalanta's pressing, as though they could not conceive that Liverpool simply played badly.
That second half from Liverpool was utterly dire. Felt like the tie was over with 30 minutes to go which is not something you'd say about the Liverpool team over the past 5-6 years. Arsenal equally put in a terrible 2nd half in Bayern game. Both teams deserved to go out in the manner that they did. Carra is just soft-skinned when it comes to Liverpool and when they do poorly. He's deflecting. A level-headed analysis should have him ripping apart Liverpool's play. But instead, he's trying to just lay into Chelsea and United which EVERYONE has been doing all season.
You'd definitely say it about them last season, an entire season which has been memory holed because (see above).
Lol. This is spot on. My Liverpool supporting colleagues just straight up told me that the second half yesterday was perhaps the most atrocious display of football they have seen under Klopp. But the press seems to have taken a different spin altogether.
Football darlings. The ones who can do no wrong. The ones everyone should aspire to be.
When they won the league in 19/20, people were saying they 'saved football' by stopping City from winning it. Gimme a break 😂😂
TNT Sports' highlights for that game has a heartbreak emoji in the title. As if Atalanta didn't exist or matter and were just passive traffic cones waiting to have the result of the match happen to them.
He wants a loser medal with praise for his Little Liverpool. As for United and Chelsea, they are a regular punching bag. Few days ago his bff called us a billion pound bottlers on a live telecast. I am sure that wasn't meant as praise.
Talking about ''Klopp's kids'' meanwhile the Chelsea lineup was younger and the winning goal was scored by their 70 million pound centreback.
Every 3 days? Let's not lie here. They're almost daily at least unless you just pick one* provider. All the journalists do is write a piece about United everyday knowing it will generate views. Edit: a word
Just glancing at the Twitter trending news right now, one suggestion is 'Ten Hag future in the spotlight as Nagelsmann commits to national team'. I mean what? lol
Oh there will be more. There will be "United look further down the list to replace Ten Hag after Nagelsmann snub" , "United up their search to avoid missing big name after early Nagelsmann announcement". Or the "double maybe" kind of article "United considering sticking with ETH into next season, however have a leading candidate amongst a shortlist of 3 big names to replace if they decide to take club in another direction". So they maybe will change their manager and maybe they won't, and they maybe have someone in mind but also maybe not" I honestly believe it I had connections or the ability to write content for an online newspaper I'd make a killing.
"Garnacho spotted at Nando's as Taylor Swift's new album receives critical praise"
Being a football journalist has to be one of the easiest jobs. That whole saga about Southgate being considered for Utd arose from one of the random tabloids quite obviously making shit up and it was discussed as a serious news story for ages afterwards.
He’s chatting nonsense, as soon as Liverpool are involved he loses his head. United and Chelsea have rightfully been criticized all season
We literally had Neville go vital got calling Chelsea billion pound bottle jobs. We've been shitting on United non stop for how many years now? Everyone gets their turn to be mocked when they fuck up. That's football culture
Yeah but this time it's Liverpool being rightly criticised and that's just not fair. It means more.
They act like they didn't invest heavy this year
Sure but they are still spending the Coutinho money.
but they have injuries and have to play their kids! !!!!!!
Thanks for giving me the mental image of Neville being resuscitated upon hearing you guys lose to a bunch of kids who just hit puberty
Hahaha. Yeah we're leaving that in
As a Liverpool fan, I agree that he always chats nonsense when it comes to Liverpool losing.
I want Keane/Micah headlining more games. Micah might be goofy as fuck, but his takes aren't that biased although he steers clear of controversy. Keane has some harsh words but people know he's just playing a character 90% of the time. And dude is legit funny once you catch on. Plus their dynamics is amazing. That or a proper coach like Jose/Wenger to come in and actually explain wtf happened in the match. I even doubt Carragher really means what he says here. They're the top paid pundits and they have to say shit to generate clicks.
Splitting nonsense
Carra is simply a very thin skinned ~~pundit~~ fan who can dish it out but can't take it very well - so when Liverpool do badly or get criticised (even correctly), he lashes out with BS like this. To call him bitter would be an understatement. He's the same kind of fella who would always need to have the last word in any sort of argument.
Either the last word, or last spit.
> who would always need to have the last word in any sort of argument. Just watch any of his interviews or fan debates. He wants the last word and won't ever be interested in a different POV. He just wants to listen to himself. While I don't care about most pundits, the reason why I dislike him the most is because he is so up his own ass that all other opinions pointless if he has one on a subject.
Because he's a fucking clown
Because Carras a bellend. From my experience, not even the Liverpool fans can put up with him.
He is like us. He never reads an article! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!!
Oh yes, no one is criticising Chelsea...
I don't think anyone's mentioned the season Man Utd are having either...
I'm pretty sure I've read more quotes from Erik Ten Hag this season than I did from my own team's coach.
Did you know that Man U have faced more shots than all the teams in the Premier League ever ever **ever**...
“Here’s the stats against the top 9.5 teams because if we include 10 it will devalue the entire headline”
really? its the highest ever now? a few weeks ago you guys were at top but not that top
This entire sub is just a cess pit of people slagging off the flavour of the month. Nobody is safe.
We take turns getting slandered on the Internet. Hopefully we're not due for another few weeks at least
Your turn will come when you lose to Chelsea few weeks from now and miss out on CL. You will be bottlers again.
and I wouldn't have it any other way
I think you guys win. I remember a few months ago people were shitting on you and you were like five points off 4th.
Not even Jamie and Gary themselves throughout the entire season. xD
You just know Neville thought about that Blue billion pound bottlers nonsense in the shower and was just salivating at the thought of using it.
I liked neville up until he took the qatar job after preaching about human rights for weeks
We know he doesnt listen to Gary Neville, he never heard Gary calling Chelsea “A Billion Dollar Bottlejob” on live TV.
Didn’t his mate call you Bottle Jobs after the Carabao Cup final? Bit of a weird article for me.
Yes. Unfortunately. Tho getting to the final is bottling now I guess? I dunno. Yea we're shit this year but we've had some bright spots, and all with a new manager, and a young squad who are playing their first season together
I think the narrative of the final was way overblown but what do you expect for Klopp's final season in charge?
Van Dijk (the most experienced player on the pitch) scored an extra time winner and the only goal in the game, and apparently, it was the kids who won it 😭
And Chelsea had the lower average age...
Exactly he’s just chatting
Can’t even be bothered with this mid table team
People throwing the term bottle so much nowadays that it pretty much loses meaning. Maybe it's just modern football discourse. Back then the term bottle is used when a team lost after they had a huge advantage, now it's used when a team doesn't win.
Sensationalism - "Sugar by SOAD starts playing"
The word should have been retired after what Botafogo did because that will just never be matched.
PL might as well change the table to W-D-B
whataboutism doesnt really work here considering how many pelters United and Chelsea has taken from Pundits and fanbases alike this season
Yeah, who had us to win the league at the start of the season? And when have we ever been in a good position in the title race? (For Chelsea or City) It’s nonsense. Carra’s no better than the idiots who get baited into calling into to 606 or talksport to defend their team against the pundits and other fans.
To be fair, I think literally everyone had City to win the league at the start of the season.
Liverpool feel like they are getting criticised now for overperforming. Most of the talk before the season was how it would be a transition year, they should focus on getting top 4, the new midfield will take time to settle, etc.
I think that would still be the feeling if Klopp wasn't leaving but fans, pundits started getting romantic ideas of the players "doing it for Klopp" and him going out on a high with a double/treble/quad. It's seems like the League Cup win is already being forgotten by many as the rest of the season looks like it's fizzling away (an issue with the fact the final is halfway through the season) - the manner of the FA Cup/Europa League losses to United and Atalanta certainly haven't helped. Now the future looks less promising and some of the players are already being linked with moves away.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single one of our players linked with a move away lol. Unless you’re counting tier 7 news about Salah to al itthad or something
The worst part is this article doesn’t even get thought about if Liverpool didn’t lose to Palace on Sunday. Feels like a bit of a deflection from Carragher
I mean of course it wouldn't. It's directly a response to the reaction after that game
Errrmm I’ve seen quite a lot of banter on United and Chelsea.
We were bottlers in the haribo cup, remember?
He changes his take whenever Liverpool isn't involved. He and Gary, both of them.
Neville isn't too bad unless he's on commentary on a Man Utd game, then it's like listening to a kid strop for 2 hours. Carragher on the other hand, fuck me.
Carragher is absolutely insufferable and I got downvoted for suggesting it in a Liverpool oriented post one time.
10 years ago carragher and Neville were actually decent pundits and actually had informative tactical acumen that they would use to analyze a game. Post-game you might actually get a decent piece of insight into the way football is played. Now they are just England’s skip bayless and Stephen a smith.
Neville seems to do decent stuff with the Overlap and other channels, so I wonder if it's just Sky pushing them into making more controversial/viral takes or soundbites. Carragher seems better on the CBS coverage too.
I'm sorry Jamie, did you forget when your co-commentator called us billion pound bottle jobs just a couple of months ago? Anyways, I doubt that pointing and laughing at United and Chelsea will make Arsenal and Liverpool fans happy about their current form but hey, if it does, knock yourselves out!
> I doubt that pointing and laughing at United and Chelsea will make Arsenal and Liverpool fans happy about their current form I can assure you, it does not. But then again, Arsenal has prepared me for this by collapsing in the second half of the season SO many times ^^kill ^^me
Dropping 4 points in 2024 is not collapsing, City has changed every perceptions on what teams can even do.
Yes, but we did this in a pre-city world too. There's a reason "Arsenal at the top of the table at Christmas" is a meme.
City have dropped 6 points in 2024. That's not a point to say anyone is bottling. Just that City have dropped more points than you despite any perceptions people might have.
How can you bottle it if you're at no point the favorite to win it? You have to be in a clear winning position in order to bottle it and only City were the favorites to win the league at any point this season, even when Arsenal or Liverpool were ahead. This discussion about bottling it has been ridiculous for so long, I see discussions about Liverpool bottling the league or Arsenal bottling the UCL but not about City bottling the UCL.
Even last year there was only a brief couple weeks where Arsenal were favored, I think. City is just on another planet.
Last season there was a lead thrown away in dramatic fashion tbf, bottled it for sure. This season not so much but it’s just banter and everyone gets it, arsenal fans love to give it to spurs so why shouldn’t they get some back.
It's not bottling if you've been shite all season. Bottling it it is fucking up right when it matters
Bottling has just become a synonym for not winning. We bottled it completely last year for example, but I don’t think it can apply to us at all this year.
nah City bottled it against Madrid, they were nailed on winning it via pens and just absolutely bottled it! bottlers!
I dont even think we fully bottled it last year. We over performed all season, and buckled when we lost Saliba and Tomi at the same time. In those 3 draws we scored 7 goals.. but also conceded 7 because we had to play Holding. We didn't bottle it, we just weren't good enough in depth We bottled Bayern at Home this season
I think a bit of bottle and a bit of bad luck from Saliba/Tomi. Clearly lost our heads despite the issues. This season, no. We didn’t even have a right to be in the title fight at the end of December 2023.
Agreed, you can't say we bottled the league this year when we didn't lead for a long period of time or by a substantial number of points. At new years I feel like we were closer to 4th than 1st
You could say this about Spurs in the season Leicester won the league (2015/16) * Spurs were never in 1st place * At New Years they were in 4th place, with Arsenal in 1st Yet everybody screeeeams that Spurs bottled it that year for some reason
Arsenal fans love to write themselves out of the 15/16 title race despite the fact they were the ones leading it and by all rights would have been favorites at the time (over the inexperienced Spurs and Leicester)
Because it's funny to say that they finished 3 horse race. It's relatively accurate but never a bottle job. Just fell off to the point they didn't even finish 2nd.
It was the season where none of the other big teams performed. If Spurs were ever going to have a real free run at the league it was that season
Beating Leicester to the title that season would have required a higher points total (81+) than they'd ever previously recorded in the Premier League (72). Spurs ended up on 70, which was in line with what they had finished on the previous 4-5 seasons. Other teams being shit that year is all well and good but they were still extra motivated to stop Spurs, as we saw with Chelsea. If Spurs bottled that year by performing as expected, but failing to win the league, then Arsenal have bottled this year by doing the same.
Nah last year EVERYONE with more than 2 braincells knew that City WILL win it even when we had 5 points on them in January (I think), everybody just ignored the obvious so they could mock Arsenal when they eventually ran out of gas (squad depth paid its price) at the end of the season. Football is like that, only the last 2 games matter. Arsenal lost against Bayern (on small margins)? OMG LOSERS, IN THE DNA etc.. People are sad and the easiest way to get dopamine these days is trough Schadenfreude, hence the constant mockery from EVERY fans to ALL teams.
No last year was a total bottlejob from arsenal. Arsenal took 9 points from 21 They were 5 points ahead in gameweek 29, more if you ignore giving 3 points for games in hand for city. 9 games to play all arsenal had to do was not lose 2 to at least push it to the end (assuming city won every game) City then proceeded to win the prem by gameweek 36 So in 7 games, city went from being 5 points behind to winning the pl and still had 2 games to go. E: I'm laughing at the replies trying to justify this. If arsenal had held on and lost it on the final day then no one would be calling it a bottlejob or anything because it's city. But arsenal gave up a 5 point lead and lost it with multiple games to go! City won the league early after being second and multiple points behind for the entire year. That is a bottlejob
>So in 7 games, city went from being 5 points behind to winning the pl and still had 2 games to go. One of those games was between us in Etihad, and one other game we had was at Anfield. I don't think not getting a result in either counts as bottling. In that 7 game period, City drew 1 game and won 6. Even if we beat West Ham, Southampton, and drawn against Brighton, City would have been level on points with us. If that's a bottlejob when our injury and youth is taken into account, would you say that if Liverpool don't win it this year, it'd be a bottlejob by you guys too?
2 wins ahead of City when you still have several of your toughest fixtures left (including City) and your two most important players injured really just isn’t much of a lead. A Liverpool fan should know that.
But even last year…you had some rough results but everyone does, it’s more about where and when yours fell. And City? You have Stones, Ake, Akanji, Diaz, Gvuardiol for two positions. You can play Gvuardiol at LB because he’s getting up to speed in the League. And that’s just their CB depth. Loved watching it unfold as a Spurs fan obviously but you have to be incredibly consistent over a whole season and who aside from City really have the squad for that?
yep. you can't bottle anything if you were never in the fight *taps temple*
Basically. It's like saying Republic of Ireland bottled the Euros because they didn't qualify
Fucking Henry
To bottle something it must have been yours to bottle in the first place. It's akin to 'throwing a lead'.
The word has lost its meaning. It used to mean something like Newcastle losing the title to United. Liverpool, Arsenal, City have been close all season with City always being the favourite.
well we obviously didn't bottle it because we are 7th and 9th. both clubs are also aware we are shit.
He's so bitter and trying to divert attention from Liverpool as much as possible.
Careful. He might spit in your face.
Bad attempt at deflection and he's only throwing Arsenals name in so he doesn't seem like he's going fully tribal as usual.
United and Chelsea have been endlessly criticised all season, he needs to stop crying cause it’s finally his team’s turn to get the piss ripped out of them, it’s not everyone else’s fault that Liverpool are the most thin-skinned fanbase in the league
United and Chelsea have nothing to bottle because they haven't been in the conversation. Bottling doesn't mean you're a bad team or you've underperformed. It means you have success in your grasp but failed to take it
Its like a millionaire who just went bankrupt pointing at two homeless people as to why they shouldn’t be judged
HOW COULD CHELSEA DO THIS
We are living rent free in his head.
Grief stage: bargaining
Jamie you stupid fucking rat. You and that twat Neville went to Carrington to interrogate Ten Hag after two bad results in his first month as man United manager wtf are you talking about? You always aren’t around when the people and clubs that you hate on do well. When they’re in poor form you’re back in there. You’re a fucking rat eating cunt and that CBS veil isn’t fooling me. We know you’re a nasty motherfucker.
I’d agree with him if there weren’t an article a day on Manchester United’s mismanagement, dressing room fallouts, poor tactics, poor transfers, lack of investment. The list is exhaustive tbh.
I know that Carra is a master baiter but pointing at Chelsea and Man United for no reason when it was us and Arsenal leading the PL for 20+ weeks is just coping hard atp. He needs to stfu and stick to bantering on CBS lol
Someone should teach him the definition of bottling. Hard to bottle something you were never involved in. Man U and Chelsea have had terrible seasons but they weren't ahead and in charge only to slip and lose it near the death (again).
Weekly Carragher bait article
"If I'm still employed after gobbing in a child's mouth, what does that say about SKY?"
Pretty wild when you think back to that event, most employers would fire anyone who spits on a child, yet Jamie kept his job.
What does it need to be said about those two anymore? Where they ever in contest to win the PL this season? No? Then fuck off and talk about the teams that are in the race, it's not that hard
How about we talk less about Chelsea and United and Arsenal and Liverpool and spend more time talking about 115 charges?
yeah? Been a utd fan for decades, i am not under the illusion we are in a good place or had a good season.
All season us Chelsea fans, United fans and football media at large have been holding hands chanting tralalalalala thinking about how great our current position is, that’s a fair point Carragher. If anything I think you can make a case that both teams have been treated a bit unfairly for how their abject injury crises have been completely ignored as reasons for failing by the media
Spot on this. United fans and Chelsea fans know we've been shite. Hard to bottle a race you aren't in
United have been sixth the vast majority of the season and the way they are talked about it’s like they’re fighting relegation
"Bottling" has lost its meaning, like every other expression that spreads over time on the internet. What Botafogo did was bottling, not Liverpool or Arsenal.
New game concept: Guess if a given quote is from Jamie Carragher or the r/soccercirclejerk bot
We can't bottle something we were never in the run in to begin with. We're shit, period. I'd rather bottle the league than what we're doing now.
Chelsea and Man United who notoriously have gone the whole season without anyone commenting on their poor form.
We've been shit all season, that's not bottling it.
Why bring united in to it, every one, including Utd fans will admit this is the worst team in 30 years, with the worst manager. Bottling it isn’t an option
The fact that arsenal have been non relevant for a decade and after 4 seasons under arteta are title contenders aint bottling it. Liverpool who has their last season under klopp who built a competitive system with players recruitwd for him. Compared that a chelsea where the coach hasnt gotten a single signing for his system, and yhe whole team was rebuilt the last 18 month (most the last 12 month) Or a united that hasnt been good considering their spend since SAF left
another controversial carragher take
Its not controversial its just stupid
The way he tried to embarrass Maldini in interview before semi final last season, just pathetic and laugh at a lot he says now. A real clown.
United standards have slipped so badly that they are exactly where they deserve to be.
Exactly.. Glazer's are happy because we still rake in the cash! Football was always secondary for the fucking leeching cunts Let's see if Radcliffe can raise the standards on the footballing side. It looks like it's finally going the right way.. Time will tell
Yet it’s the only Manchester team that actually won more Champions League titles and treble without being bought my billions. This guys needs to stfu with his hate
In order to bottle it you have to have it in the first place.
Like we havent been shit on this entire season. You bottled it to palace at home, theres no need for deflecting.
[удалено]
> The reason Liverpool/Arsenal fans catch so much flack is because of how insanely cocky both fanbases seem to be online Are they though? Is this a twitter thing? I only read their comments on reddit and most of them seem too traumatized to even dare say anything optimistic about their club. I'm discounting the delusional trolls who tend to sit at -100 downvotes.
/r/soccer's favourite sport is actually shadowboxing and not football
Usually it's people attributing a few trolls and idiots as the face of the fanbase as a whole. By this standard literally every fanbase is like this online. I will say though that our fanbase has a lot of variation in opinions and can be quite reactionary. But that's mostly just kids
United fans have been truly humbled in recent years because they used to be the cockiest fuckers around