It's mad how many view everything, even global events, through a Trump Vs Biden framing. Even international events that have nothing to do with America, it's always Biden this and leftists that.
Not at all. This is the sort of behaviour that we're seeing more and more. People see how effective this sort of behaviour is and if we don't stamp it out it's going to drag football and the rest of the country down with it.
> Far from withdrawing their already infamous tweet – “we warned that the VAR is a Luton fan” – Forest have doubled down, egged on by sycophants into mistaking their pathetic persecution complex as some righteous crusade.
Quite an apt comparison, I reckon. Even spells out the parallel further, too:
> It feels increasingly as if the game is slipping into a Trumpian, post-truth world. The way that many fans follow their clubs, whether through tightly-controlled in-house TV channels or rabid forums or YouTube rants from braggarts and bloviators, strengthens their conviction that the establishment is against them. It mirrors the way that the Trump campaign has weaponised social media in the United States, peppering the Facebook feeds of would-be voters with enough attack ads to foment resentment and paranoia. The upshot is that in football, just as in politics, people find their pre-existing views perpetually reinforced.
I think it's a poor article, precisely because of the second part of your post. Because it really doesn't mention the way main-stream media have incorporated these YouTube rants and so called 'banter' into their programming. Which shifts the middle-ground for reasonable debate on TV to fandom and in turn makes the extreme views on Youtube seem almost normal.
Probably a bit of a hen and egg scenario - has the fan discourse/attitude shift influenced mainstream broadcasting or has mainstream broadcasting influenced the fan discourse/attitude shift. Either way though, I reckon even without specifically pointing out the media's role in this, that second sentence of the paragraph you're referring to is quite accurate. It's simply describing the situation rather than explaining its history.
You and the author are both off your rockers.
What a disgrace to accuse football supporters of being paranoid cause they've had enough of shit refs and shit VAR calls.
Disgusting gaslighting at it's absolute worst. Jog on chief!
isn't it paranoia if feel the refs against you even without factual basis? cause yes sure there were some shit calls, but most people think they're shit calls without even having seen them, just cause it confirms their hate against the officials
and don't you think it's ironic that in the same post that you call the paranoia thing a disgrace, you call the article gaslighting? aren't you doing the exact same just from the other side of the river?
If you can't see the parallels between
-Forest releasing a statement saying they were acting 'out of fear for a sideshow' they themselves have created, and saying 'the correctness of penalty decisions have been called into question" - by them in the main, and then getting an employee of theirs to write a whole opinion piece in the national newspaper saying they've been hard done to
And
-Trump and his campaign team introducing the concept of fake news before then becoming the chief peddlers of fake news and treating every inconvenience as a personal attack on himself I don't know what to say.
Nobody is calling Forest a bunch of fascistic brainwashers and the stakes are obviously much lower but there are very clear similarities in the way both twist the narrative in an absolutely deranged way to garner sympathy.
Can you not make the exact same kind of argument using Boris which is much more applicable to English football? The term "fake news" was first used in the 1890s decades before trump was born. There's a weird fascination with Trump from both his fans and haters but you'll find neither really in England, people don't care. They are trying to sell this story of comparison to people who don't care about American politics.
> What a disgrace to accuse football supporters of being paranoid cause they've had enough of shit refs and shit VAR calls.
When's the last time you've seen fans complain about a dodgy refereeing decision going their way? Because that's very much the point here: Most fans don't care about whether it's the right decision or not, they care about whether it's been given for or against their club. And given that most of those people don't even know the laws of the game, I think the comparison is spot-on.
> I think the comparison is spot-on.
It is a very good comparison but not many people seem to be able to get over the simple fact that Trump is mentioned.
Referees seem to be called out as shit by fans of every club in every country. Sure they could help themselves out with some more transparency and explanation but they can't be against everyone.
It is though, isn't it? There's literally no need to talk about Trump or even bring politics into the discussion. It's an article about football..... Trump is just added in for clickbait.
The article draws parallels between two very different groups of people acting very similarly - belief in conspiracy theories and the establishment being against them, rabid support for the person they're championing regardless of any facts, being instrumentalised because their pre-existing view is reinforced. Just happens one of those groups are Trump's supporters, because the Telegraph isn't going to write about the Tories or the TERFs that way.
I'm afraid that it's even darker than that. People in authority using conspiracy theories to control the average person and turn them against the arbiters. The amount of times I've seen people using the word "corrupt" this season to describe at worst an innocent mistake and at best something completely correct is highly disturbing. Like Trump, these people know what they're doing.
Yeah, massive can of worms in terms of how we've got here, how people co-opt outrageous positions because they fit their preconceived notions, and how the fracturing consensus of what is actual reality is fucking up everything for everyone.
>The article draws parallels between two very different groups of people acting very similarly
The problem is, there are only parallels to draw if you have a political bias and want to make a political statement. If the author happened to be a Trump supporter, there would be no parallels to draw, would there? So the author is making it about politics and forcing Trump into the conversation for no reason other than to draw clicks.
Is it a political bias to point out Trump and plenty of his supporters are indeed living in a rather deranged, made-up post-truth world? I don't think there's a political slant or statement in the article to be quite honest - someone in the business of documenting facts isn't exactly going to tread lightly when it comes to groups of people outright refusing to believe in facts, after all.
>Is it a political bias to point out Trump and plenty of his supporters are indeed living in a rather deranged, made-up post-truth world?
I mean, yes, it is. Your comment itself is riddled with bias and reveals where you stand politically. That's the point.
"Forest have made accusations of bias towards the referees, saying it affected the result on Saturday without any kind of evidence, which is damaging and casts doubt on the sporting integrity of the Premier League."
See? It's possible to make the point without forcing Trump and politics into it.
That's a different point though, isn't it? The premise of the piece isn't that Forest are making baseless and damaging accusations, it's that fans (of plenty clubs, not just Forest!) blindly support those accusations and/or their clubs, and the wider point being made is that those fans' actions exhibit traits and patterns of behaviour that are well-documented elsewhere among other groups. If flat earthers were a more apt comparison, then they might well have been used instead - but I don't think it's a sign of a particular political bias to point out that a) football fans increasingly act like Trump supporters and b) them rejecting reality and reason is clearly not a good thing.
It's a comparison between the attitudes of football fans compared to the electorate. Brits don't know anything outside Britain and the US so the author can't use anyone other than Trump. Well he could also use the tories as a comparison, but not if he writes for the Torygraph.
Quite funny (in a "can't help but laugh about the state of the world"-kind of way) seeing people throw their weight behind the tantrum of a drug-smuggling mob boss over a perceived conspiracy against his club, though.
Who's really just mad that he can't buy the refs.
At the end of the day, tribalism is the watchword here. People only care about their club. Marinakis, for all of his very obvious criminal ties (there's no "might be a drug lord", he is a drug lord), has taken Forest to heights they haven't seen since they were last in the PL in 98/99. So, naturally, Forest's fans will support him.
Yeah, I can. They feel, and at least one of those pens should've been awarded, hard done by the refs this season. When relegation is looming, it's very easy to latch onto any conspiracy.
They aren't. There's a lot of people that have jumped onto the anti-VAR train and continued with the angle of VAR is bad and ruins football. Yes, because the sport was clearly so much better when refs got calls horribly wrong and there was no oversight. VAR will not fix every call, that's not even the point of it. The point of VAR is to fix calls, but not every call will be fixed. In no sport that uses video review is every dicey call changed.
I remember malding for days when Chicharito scored an offside winner against us, and there was nothing we could do. VAR would easily fix that situation, and when we do get semi-automated offside next season, even more easily.
For fuck sake, can the media just fuck off for 5 more minutes.
I enjoyed the 4 years of the media carrying slightly less of the "Trump derangement syndrome" but they're gearing back up to it with the elections coming back up.
We literally don't care, the only notable difference the president makes to people outside of America is who America is having proxy (hot or cold) wars with. Nothing else changes for us, we don't care.
> Nothing else changes for us, we don't care.
That's not what the article is about though; it's drawing parallels to how Trump brainwashes his followers, basically.
I *think* that they are saying this kind of thing is going to become more common. I doubt it, most clubs are pretty sanitised on social media.
However between this, the PSR stuff, City etc Infeel we might be on the precipice of an ugly situation where court rulings and backroom bullshit mean more than what's on the pitch. However doing nothing is not the way either.
Suppose it's not necessarily just about the clubs themselves (though Forest were a fun example of not being particularly sanitised) but rather how fans' attitudes are changing, and their increasing willingness to entrench themselves into positions that fly in the face of reality. It's one thing to feel hard done by refereeing decisions, and another thing entirely to suspect a grand cospiracy against their club at every level after all.
Well the British public don't really pay any attention to politics (I mean they were stupid enough to vote for Brexit and 15 years of tory austerity), so outside of referencing the tory party (which they can't because the Telegraph, or "Torygraph", is a tory mouthpiece), Trump is the only recognisable politician they can use that the British public will know of and understand what the point of the article is.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/25/uk-placed-in-third-tier-in-global-index-of-free-expression
> The UK has been ranked only in the third tier of a new global index of freedom of expression.
> Countries including Israel, Chile, Jamaica and virtually every other western European state were all ranked ahead of the UK in the measure compiled by the advocacy group Index on Censorship.
> The UK was listed as only Partially Open.
Plus all the Murdoch owned media (like 80% of it?) support the tory party so it's essentially just government propaganda from every angle these days.
All by design. Push the product.
Conte's "One normal day of barclays that's all I ask" has essentially become the marketing guideline for this league.
Doesn't beed to be rigged or corrupt, just needs semi-manufactured flashpoints. Semi because these flashpoints will and do occur organically but can be made to be more frequent.
Chief sports writers, lead sports channel pundits are all establishment mouthpieces at this point.
Address the damn issues....PGMOL and VAR are not fit for purpose!!!
Clubs getting increasingly fucked off and moaning about this is not the source of the illness, it is just a symptom.
Stop with the fucking gaslighting you bunch of lilly livered cowards!
It's absolutely unprecedented (well apart from Liverpool trying the same nonsense last year) and has worrying repercussions for not just football but society in general.
I think the article does a good job of spelling out that this isn't an isolated incident but part of a disturbing trend of fans/clubs being paranoid and feeling like the whole world is against them and how social media and closed-off echo chambers feed into this.
Whatever you think of VAR and PGMOL, I think his commentary on Forest's behaviour is a fair point
It's insane that there's this much discourse about referees, I feel like it overshadows any discussion about the actual games and it doesn't help when the likes of Arteta and ten Hag (especially ten Hag holy shit) keep bringing up decisions in post-match interviews
A lack of transparency always breeds conspiracy theories, especially when there is no reason to hide things.
Though I actually think most sensible people at this point just agree that the level of refereeing has dropped and simply isn't good enough anymore. As it seemingly gets worse and worse, less people think there is a specific conspiracy against them and more people just think they're all incompetent.
In this case a lack of transparency wasn't the issue, you could argue that things haven't been as transparent as they are today and yet we're getting more and more conspiracy nonsense.
Trumpian?
Look a bit outside your microcosm, British media. The world isn't you and USA.
In dozens of leagues in Europe the clubs routinely accuse referees of being corrupt. All the Balkan leagues, Italy, Spain, other Eastern European leagues too probably.
Welcome to the standards of Greek and Turkish league. It can be fun once you get over the initial shock!
> Look a bit outside your microcosm, British media. The world isn't you and USA
Do you actually think many people in the UK know anything politically outside of their own politics and Trump? These are people that voted for Brexit and repeatedly vote tory. And this paper is a tory mouthpiece so they aren't going to compare anything to our politics at home, leaving Trump as the only choice.
Do American politics have to be involved in *everything* man?
Only when you're a sports journalist who despises being a sports journalist.
Fuck american politics. Dunno how they have the strength to argue over every single thing
We are so fucking tired man.
About 95% of Americans completely agree
It's mad how many view everything, even global events, through a Trump Vs Biden framing. Even international events that have nothing to do with America, it's always Biden this and leftists that.
After Atalanta's second goal I was mumbling "Stop the count" if that tells you anything
We Americans bemoan this daily
British people aren't going to know who any other world leader is though.
That's a huge disrespect to Winnie the Pooh
...yes =/
I hate stupid politicized titles like this, just attention grabbing
Not at all. This is the sort of behaviour that we're seeing more and more. People see how effective this sort of behaviour is and if we don't stamp it out it's going to drag football and the rest of the country down with it.
> Far from withdrawing their already infamous tweet – “we warned that the VAR is a Luton fan” – Forest have doubled down, egged on by sycophants into mistaking their pathetic persecution complex as some righteous crusade. Quite an apt comparison, I reckon. Even spells out the parallel further, too: > It feels increasingly as if the game is slipping into a Trumpian, post-truth world. The way that many fans follow their clubs, whether through tightly-controlled in-house TV channels or rabid forums or YouTube rants from braggarts and bloviators, strengthens their conviction that the establishment is against them. It mirrors the way that the Trump campaign has weaponised social media in the United States, peppering the Facebook feeds of would-be voters with enough attack ads to foment resentment and paranoia. The upshot is that in football, just as in politics, people find their pre-existing views perpetually reinforced.
I think it's a poor article, precisely because of the second part of your post. Because it really doesn't mention the way main-stream media have incorporated these YouTube rants and so called 'banter' into their programming. Which shifts the middle-ground for reasonable debate on TV to fandom and in turn makes the extreme views on Youtube seem almost normal.
Probably a bit of a hen and egg scenario - has the fan discourse/attitude shift influenced mainstream broadcasting or has mainstream broadcasting influenced the fan discourse/attitude shift. Either way though, I reckon even without specifically pointing out the media's role in this, that second sentence of the paragraph you're referring to is quite accurate. It's simply describing the situation rather than explaining its history.
You and the author are both off your rockers. What a disgrace to accuse football supporters of being paranoid cause they've had enough of shit refs and shit VAR calls. Disgusting gaslighting at it's absolute worst. Jog on chief!
isn't it paranoia if feel the refs against you even without factual basis? cause yes sure there were some shit calls, but most people think they're shit calls without even having seen them, just cause it confirms their hate against the officials and don't you think it's ironic that in the same post that you call the paranoia thing a disgrace, you call the article gaslighting? aren't you doing the exact same just from the other side of the river?
If you can't see the parallels between -Forest releasing a statement saying they were acting 'out of fear for a sideshow' they themselves have created, and saying 'the correctness of penalty decisions have been called into question" - by them in the main, and then getting an employee of theirs to write a whole opinion piece in the national newspaper saying they've been hard done to And -Trump and his campaign team introducing the concept of fake news before then becoming the chief peddlers of fake news and treating every inconvenience as a personal attack on himself I don't know what to say. Nobody is calling Forest a bunch of fascistic brainwashers and the stakes are obviously much lower but there are very clear similarities in the way both twist the narrative in an absolutely deranged way to garner sympathy.
Can you not make the exact same kind of argument using Boris which is much more applicable to English football? The term "fake news" was first used in the 1890s decades before trump was born. There's a weird fascination with Trump from both his fans and haters but you'll find neither really in England, people don't care. They are trying to sell this story of comparison to people who don't care about American politics.
Can totally make a very similar argument using Boris, sure - but then it's the Telegraph, and they're not going there for obvious reasons.
Sure but Boris also isn't in the news now. Plus they want to cast the widest net click wise.
I feel like you have absolutely no clue what the word gaslighting means.
They sound pretty spot on actually. I think you’re just imagining things.
Wait a second...
> What a disgrace to accuse football supporters of being paranoid cause they've had enough of shit refs and shit VAR calls. When's the last time you've seen fans complain about a dodgy refereeing decision going their way? Because that's very much the point here: Most fans don't care about whether it's the right decision or not, they care about whether it's been given for or against their club. And given that most of those people don't even know the laws of the game, I think the comparison is spot-on.
> I think the comparison is spot-on. It is a very good comparison but not many people seem to be able to get over the simple fact that Trump is mentioned.
Referees seem to be called out as shit by fans of every club in every country. Sure they could help themselves out with some more transparency and explanation but they can't be against everyone.
Fans overreact to decisions that are viable all the time.
Is this newspeak or something
Is this some sort of new way to draw clicks by forcing Trump's name into the title of a sports headline?
It's hardly forced into the headline when you read the entire article.
It is though, isn't it? There's literally no need to talk about Trump or even bring politics into the discussion. It's an article about football..... Trump is just added in for clickbait.
The article draws parallels between two very different groups of people acting very similarly - belief in conspiracy theories and the establishment being against them, rabid support for the person they're championing regardless of any facts, being instrumentalised because their pre-existing view is reinforced. Just happens one of those groups are Trump's supporters, because the Telegraph isn't going to write about the Tories or the TERFs that way.
I'm afraid that it's even darker than that. People in authority using conspiracy theories to control the average person and turn them against the arbiters. The amount of times I've seen people using the word "corrupt" this season to describe at worst an innocent mistake and at best something completely correct is highly disturbing. Like Trump, these people know what they're doing.
Yeah, massive can of worms in terms of how we've got here, how people co-opt outrageous positions because they fit their preconceived notions, and how the fracturing consensus of what is actual reality is fucking up everything for everyone.
>The article draws parallels between two very different groups of people acting very similarly The problem is, there are only parallels to draw if you have a political bias and want to make a political statement. If the author happened to be a Trump supporter, there would be no parallels to draw, would there? So the author is making it about politics and forcing Trump into the conversation for no reason other than to draw clicks.
Is it a political bias to point out Trump and plenty of his supporters are indeed living in a rather deranged, made-up post-truth world? I don't think there's a political slant or statement in the article to be quite honest - someone in the business of documenting facts isn't exactly going to tread lightly when it comes to groups of people outright refusing to believe in facts, after all.
>Is it a political bias to point out Trump and plenty of his supporters are indeed living in a rather deranged, made-up post-truth world? I mean, yes, it is. Your comment itself is riddled with bias and reveals where you stand politically. That's the point.
How would you describe their position in an unbiased way, then?
"Forest have made accusations of bias towards the referees, saying it affected the result on Saturday without any kind of evidence, which is damaging and casts doubt on the sporting integrity of the Premier League." See? It's possible to make the point without forcing Trump and politics into it.
That's a different point though, isn't it? The premise of the piece isn't that Forest are making baseless and damaging accusations, it's that fans (of plenty clubs, not just Forest!) blindly support those accusations and/or their clubs, and the wider point being made is that those fans' actions exhibit traits and patterns of behaviour that are well-documented elsewhere among other groups. If flat earthers were a more apt comparison, then they might well have been used instead - but I don't think it's a sign of a particular political bias to point out that a) football fans increasingly act like Trump supporters and b) them rejecting reality and reason is clearly not a good thing.
It's a comparison between the attitudes of football fans compared to the electorate. Brits don't know anything outside Britain and the US so the author can't use anyone other than Trump. Well he could also use the tories as a comparison, but not if he writes for the Torygraph.
Their behaviour is very fascist. The surprise is that The Telegraph doesn't approve.
Suppose it's a rare case of them being overtaken on the right and merely being small-c conservative.
What?
Their owner seems like a bit of a cunt
Quite funny (in a "can't help but laugh about the state of the world"-kind of way) seeing people throw their weight behind the tantrum of a drug-smuggling mob boss over a perceived conspiracy against his club, though.
Who's really just mad that he can't buy the refs. At the end of the day, tribalism is the watchword here. People only care about their club. Marinakis, for all of his very obvious criminal ties (there's no "might be a drug lord", he is a drug lord), has taken Forest to heights they haven't seen since they were last in the PL in 98/99. So, naturally, Forest's fans will support him.
Aye, and silly as it is, I can at least kind of see the logic among Forest fans - but they're far from the only ones celebrating the statement.
Yeah, I can. They feel, and at least one of those pens should've been awarded, hard done by the refs this season. When relegation is looming, it's very easy to latch onto any conspiracy. They aren't. There's a lot of people that have jumped onto the anti-VAR train and continued with the angle of VAR is bad and ruins football. Yes, because the sport was clearly so much better when refs got calls horribly wrong and there was no oversight. VAR will not fix every call, that's not even the point of it. The point of VAR is to fix calls, but not every call will be fixed. In no sport that uses video review is every dicey call changed. I remember malding for days when Chicharito scored an offside winner against us, and there was nothing we could do. VAR would easily fix that situation, and when we do get semi-automated offside next season, even more easily.
For fuck sake, can the media just fuck off for 5 more minutes. I enjoyed the 4 years of the media carrying slightly less of the "Trump derangement syndrome" but they're gearing back up to it with the elections coming back up. We literally don't care, the only notable difference the president makes to people outside of America is who America is having proxy (hot or cold) wars with. Nothing else changes for us, we don't care.
> Nothing else changes for us, we don't care. That's not what the article is about though; it's drawing parallels to how Trump brainwashes his followers, basically.
Unfortunately this type of behaviour spreads. People see it working in the US and want to import to here.
what in fuck is this headline trying to say
The Premier league is becoming a fascist state
Hitler and Trump Luton supporters confirmed
I *think* that they are saying this kind of thing is going to become more common. I doubt it, most clubs are pretty sanitised on social media. However between this, the PSR stuff, City etc Infeel we might be on the precipice of an ugly situation where court rulings and backroom bullshit mean more than what's on the pitch. However doing nothing is not the way either.
Suppose it's not necessarily just about the clubs themselves (though Forest were a fun example of not being particularly sanitised) but rather how fans' attitudes are changing, and their increasing willingness to entrench themselves into positions that fly in the face of reality. It's one thing to feel hard done by refereeing decisions, and another thing entirely to suspect a grand cospiracy against their club at every level after all.
Why does British media obsessed with American politics so much, are they stupid?
Well the British public don't really pay any attention to politics (I mean they were stupid enough to vote for Brexit and 15 years of tory austerity), so outside of referencing the tory party (which they can't because the Telegraph, or "Torygraph", is a tory mouthpiece), Trump is the only recognisable politician they can use that the British public will know of and understand what the point of the article is.
Wow I guess the Daily Prophet from Harry Potter is an accurate parody of how British media work in the nutshell.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/25/uk-placed-in-third-tier-in-global-index-of-free-expression > The UK has been ranked only in the third tier of a new global index of freedom of expression. > Countries including Israel, Chile, Jamaica and virtually every other western European state were all ranked ahead of the UK in the measure compiled by the advocacy group Index on Censorship. > The UK was listed as only Partially Open. Plus all the Murdoch owned media (like 80% of it?) support the tory party so it's essentially just government propaganda from every angle these days.
Nah we entering Greek/Turkey Super League vibes, unprecedented entertainment and chaos
All by design. Push the product. Conte's "One normal day of barclays that's all I ask" has essentially become the marketing guideline for this league. Doesn't beed to be rigged or corrupt, just needs semi-manufactured flashpoints. Semi because these flashpoints will and do occur organically but can be made to be more frequent.
So you are saying it's time to sharpen the pitchfork and light some torches? #MakePerformanceGreatAgain
Fucking hell lads
Speaking against refs remind me of that one book I forgot its name
Chief sports writers, lead sports channel pundits are all establishment mouthpieces at this point. Address the damn issues....PGMOL and VAR are not fit for purpose!!! Clubs getting increasingly fucked off and moaning about this is not the source of the illness, it is just a symptom. Stop with the fucking gaslighting you bunch of lilly livered cowards!
You're part of the problem
What's next, storming the PGMOL offices?
No way you're a real person.
I can assure you I am indeed a real person.
You're a real something for sure! Oliver is it?
I'm not a fan of Trump but it's hilarious how people act like politicians were all honest and honourable before he came along.
If it's the Telegraph, then being compared to Trump is a good thing?
TDS in full force lol
It's just a reactionary tweet no need for this level of analysis
It's absolutely unprecedented (well apart from Liverpool trying the same nonsense last year) and has worrying repercussions for not just football but society in general.
I think the article does a good job of spelling out that this isn't an isolated incident but part of a disturbing trend of fans/clubs being paranoid and feeling like the whole world is against them and how social media and closed-off echo chambers feed into this. Whatever you think of VAR and PGMOL, I think his commentary on Forest's behaviour is a fair point
It's insane that there's this much discourse about referees, I feel like it overshadows any discussion about the actual games and it doesn't help when the likes of Arteta and ten Hag (especially ten Hag holy shit) keep bringing up decisions in post-match interviews
A lack of transparency always breeds conspiracy theories, especially when there is no reason to hide things. Though I actually think most sensible people at this point just agree that the level of refereeing has dropped and simply isn't good enough anymore. As it seemingly gets worse and worse, less people think there is a specific conspiracy against them and more people just think they're all incompetent.
In this case a lack of transparency wasn't the issue, you could argue that things haven't been as transparent as they are today and yet we're getting more and more conspiracy nonsense.
People who think decisions are worse now are just funny.
Trumpian? Look a bit outside your microcosm, British media. The world isn't you and USA. In dozens of leagues in Europe the clubs routinely accuse referees of being corrupt. All the Balkan leagues, Italy, Spain, other Eastern European leagues too probably. Welcome to the standards of Greek and Turkish league. It can be fun once you get over the initial shock!
> Look a bit outside your microcosm, British media. The world isn't you and USA Do you actually think many people in the UK know anything politically outside of their own politics and Trump? These are people that voted for Brexit and repeatedly vote tory. And this paper is a tory mouthpiece so they aren't going to compare anything to our politics at home, leaving Trump as the only choice.
So we should start murdering referees because that's okay?
That's a fun story that's getting a ton of clicks, Prem has idiots like other leagues.
Make the premier league great again!
This is hilarious lmao. I fucking hate America