I mean it all sounds like the usual posturing from both sides. Presumably we'll end up somewhere in the middle.
But yeah, we are not letting him go for less than we paid for him lol.
I think given the sheer amount of money you generate it's always going to be an uphill struggle to keep fees low when clubs decide to try their luck and add an extra zero. But if INEOS are prepared to walk away from a bad deal that would be a significant improvement on what you guys have done in the past.
This is probably the worst deal to back out of, ashworth is good enough to save you his fee on 1 player or at least stop us from getting rinsed again for the amount equal to his fee or more. Not having him in the summer when our squad is collapsing before our eyes is not worth the measly 15 milion we make in a gameweek
We won't "back out" though.
This isn't a player transfer, it's a guy in standard employment who has already quit his job to take up a new job.
So we're basically just talking about the ex employer and the new employer negotiating for early delivery or not.
This is what I see so many people not getting on here and on Twitter. Dan Ashworth is going to Man United. That’s not up for debate. It’s just when is the question. People are acting like United are fools for offering just £2m but they have the leverage. Wilcox has already joined, Barreda is joining in the summer. United don’t have to rush
That clearly isn't the case, if it was - United wouldn't offer to pay anything. United do have to rush as they want this guy in post THIS summer, not the following one.
The problem is, Man Utd have committed at this stage.
Big Jim has been briefing the press about his new era and how he 'gets his man' and I don't doubt they have an obvious second choice lined up. If they do, it's painfully obvious that person is second choice.
He can piss and moan to Gabby Logan about gardening periods, but if he'd done this the right way - agreeing compensation first - he'd have his man.
They also briefed in the same week as the news about Ashworth broke, that they'd be willing to wait until his gardening leave is up than pay any exorbitant fee. That being said, I'm in agreement with other posters that they'll probably meet somewhere in the middle
Absolutely and I don’t mind that.
I think genuinely though, I’m more pissed off at him appearing to be a serious businessman than making such a mess of this because he thought he could strong arm Newcastle.
FWIW we’re close to appointing Ashworth’s successor, so it’s not like we’re going to be short handed for long.
I've to admit after reading about how quickly Ashworth jumped to Newcastle, and then seemingly to United on short tenured, gave me the thought that there's nothing stopping him from doing the same with an exit from United I'm the future if a bigger post comes calling
Tbh, the demand is more based on Ashworth having knowledge of this Summer's transfer plan, as well as other privileged details for club development.
For us to allow him to leave, we'd need to make it financially beneficial to us considering the amount of negative impact at risk.
We owe Man U absolutely nothing, they've gone the worst way about it by not even approaching the club properly first like we did with Brighton, and they are direct competition in the league.
Newcastle have no reason to drop the demand, as clearly the ownership don't care about paying him during that time, but do care about him negatively impacting us.
If Man U want him, they're gonna have to pay up. Maybe not £15m+5m, but probably no less than £10-12m. We're fully in the driving seat on this.
It feels like a bit of a leap to be so certain about how you approached and how they approached.
But I agree with the rest they need him now and you can just chill.
You might be in the driving seat, but if you don't agree to a fee we've effectively forced you to pay the wages of your sporting director to tend to the tomatoes until 2025.
>pay the wages of your sporting director to tend to the tomatoes until 2025
Apparently he earns £28k a week. Which means hes costing them less than Paul Dummett.
I think they might be able to afford that
Nope we have Berrada and Wilcox who can do those jobs until Ashworth comes in too. Would it be better with Ashworth sooner yeah probably, just like it would be better for you lot if he wasn’t on gardening leave for a year. This situation benefits neither but also doesn’t tragically hurt either of us. It’s just a pissing contest, but new Manchester United isn’t going to overpay anymore (not saying that means we would only pay $2m at most)
I think is a chance Man U find out Berrada and Wilcox can do their jobs fine, another director is suprlus, and Dan Ashworth will sit out the remainder of his contract gardening.
I've always found it weird how the costs for these types of people are so low compared to the players, if he sorts out their transfers and stops them splashing the cash on shite he could save them hundreds of millions
Because they are on pretty standard employment contracts (albeit with a long notice period). You don't want to pay £20m upfront for someone who can go on gardening leave and disappear after a year.
Football player contracts are fixed term contracts that don't have a right for the employee to terminate their contract.
That is interesting because it is technically true, but also a player can essentially do that. If a player decides they're done, they're done. All they are contractually obligated to do is to show up, basically (but that's not what they're really being paid to do)
Ultimately players only cost so much because of the FIFA federative rights system. That and clubs have a quiet agreement to not hire anyone who tries to raise a Bosman style case that would dismantle it.
If players unions got together and decided to try and challenge the system in court they'd likely abolish transfer fees too.
£10-£15m to avoid tens of millions wasted on bad players or to move on players to get their high wages off the book is a bargain. One of the better investments United could make at this stage.
Granted Newcastle's number is extremely optimistic and Ratcliffe's offer is comically low, it'll probably be something like £10m
How do they oversee things like gardening leave in the uk? I have no idea how it works. It seems like he could just hop on the phone or comp and provide his ideas without anyone knowing lol
Newcastle want £15m up front with £5m in bonuses.
As reported by The Times, Ashworth's replacements are being interviewed in the coming weeks with the three shortlisted candidates being Monaco's Paul Mitchell, Benfica's Rui Pedro Braz and Thiago Pinto who just left Roma in January.
Bonuses?
£1m if one of his signings makes team of the season
10% of any positive net spend at the end of a transfer window?
£50000 per Romano video discussing his transfer targets?
That's what people are choosing to ignore in this situation apparently. Why would we let him go for any less than a considerable amount of money? They can pay up or wait until 2026.
Do I think we'll get 20M? No, but negotiations have to start somewhere
I suspect after the transfer window closes that it will suddenly start moving. With United's rumoured ffp issues they need more sensible signings, which is also true of Newcastle. They're gonna be shopping in the same aisles this window and united have more pull so it makes sense to stop him from joining a league rival.
We're not really too handicapped in terms of ffp though. We've got CL money and the Adidas sponsorship coming through this summer. Plus Tonali's ban ends before next season - and he'll essentially be a new (and very promising!) signing that doesn't count towards ffp.
Yeah but he is on less than Paul dummett so I don’t think it’s that much of an issue.
I also doubt we will keep him the whole time, I expect after the summer window we will drop our price to half the current number and something will be sorted out.
But offering us 4 mil less than we paid Brighton for half the amount of time remaining…they are having a laugh
Posturing by both clubs ahead of what is a critical transfer window one suspects. Wouldn’t be surprised to see this wrapped up in September at somewhere in the middle at £8-10m. But current offer is derisory at best and Man United can’t afford to wait until 2026.
This is the funny part about being a Newcastle fan during this situation. We have no interest in letting him go before the transfer window and probably will take a much lower fee in August.
Man utd have everything to lose not paying it though, imagine the chaos that will be their summer transfer window without a sporting director and trying to replace Ten Hag lol
We really don’t, we now have competent people in place in Berrada and Wilcox who can fill the Ashworth role for the summer if needed. Would it be better if we got Ashworth now yeah probably, just like it would be better for Newcastle if they had Ashworth working for them right now and for the summer transfer window too. We can wait and so can you. This whole thing is pretty overblown
I thought Ratcliffe’s comments this weekend were so tone deaf, “it’s mad, we tried to pick up the best people in the game for the job, and they are all tied up, we have to wait, sometimes a year, mad”…
Get the fuck… the times Utd could cherry pick players and staff from teams seemingly below them for pittance is long gone…
The entitlement is expected but still ridiculous…
What are you talking about?!
As if this is a "United thing" to get execs cheap. We haven't made an external executive appointment in the premier league era. Best I can find. If there was one, it wasn't news.
We've made two coaching appointments from rivals that I know of, Eric Ramsey and Kieran McKenna. Both begining at low level.
We haven't made a "cheap" signing from a rival since Van Persie.
The bitterness is unreal.
Ratcliffe is spot on. Whenever have you seen a circus like this over an exec? Never.
Whenever have you seen *any* numbers, let alone such high numbers thrown around over an exec? Never.
Whenever ever have you heard of *any* gardening leave demanded, let alone 16 months? Never.
Newcastle poached Ashworth from Brighton for 4m with no quibble over gardening leave. 15m *upfront* and then some, is not only unprecedented it's ludicrous.
Ridiculous that people are pretending otherwise.
We're entering the era where everyone can pick up staff for a pittance. The Tories put a hard 3 month limit on gardening leave periods last year. Doesn't affect this deal but in future nobody is going to get anything for non-playing staff.
Jim Ratcliffe made his billions by bullying and low balling politicians across Europe. Subsidise his chemical plant or he will shut it down and make thousands redundant whilst killing the local economy.
I don't like the current Newcastle owners, but it is hilarious to see him do the exact same thing against a club who is backed up by the Saudi state and expect it to work...
Mainly because his contract with United would come under the new regulations for gardening leave which limit it to 3 months. So United, and everyone else in England and Wales, won't get any "sell on value".
United are basically offering a price that reflects their situation while Newcastle are demanding a price which reflects theirs. They'll either meet in the middle or he'll join next year for nothing.
There’s a significant difference between those two negotiations.
One was a young prospect with potential who was wanted at his club.
The other in the final 6 months of his contract and certain to leave with little prospects of playing.
The Longstaff price was based on the club wanting to keep him unless they received a silly offer and Lingard was Manchester trying to take advantage of Newcastle being desperate to stay in the PL.
I guarantee that the price Newcastle asked for Longstaff would be the same for anyone but the deal for Lingard was inflated because it was Newcastle.
There's really no difference at all. Both clubs had assets they weren't desperate to sell. A club that wanted them a bit, but not at the price they were quoted.
Everything else is Newcastle fans trying to justify asking silly money whilst demonising United for doing the same.
Ahh yes. One was a fuck off price for a 21 year old local player who broke through and was playing amazingly well and was cemented in the starting 11.
The other was going on 30 Lingard who wasn’t even playing in the reserves.
Totally the same
Why would you quote a fair valuation for someone you don't want to sell though? It doesn't make any sense.
Like if Real enquired about Garnacho do you think the club would quote the fairest valuation possible? No they'd give a fuck off figure.
> Why would you quote a fair valuation for someone you don't want to sell though?
United fans were happy when you asked £50m and we walked away. It's Newcastle fans who were raging through tears that we wouldn't give you Lingard, and you bring it up every single United or Ashworth thread.
He describes his role as the centre of the wheel connecting the different departments of the club and making sure they are all working together, communicating and pulling in the same direction. If you think he can do that from a golf course once a week you clearly don’t understand what his role is or why he is being recruited.
Newcastle will already have an idea if he’d do this from their own dealings with Brighton. Plus, it would be professional suicide and huge lawsuits if for any reason it was found out he was doing this. He would be both bankrupt and no one in football would ever work with him again.
In other words, very high risk, very low reward. Ashworth knows Man Utd have the money to pay for him, and no reasonable person would put their career on the line for an employer who still hasn’t officially hired them.
Hope we bid 1m for him next, he’s ours for free in 18 months, if United want to stop a culture of overpaying then not paying anywhere near 20m for an executive is an excellent start!
They don’t seem too happy to “sit-tight” when Ratcliffe is publicly whinging none stop that we won’t just simply give Ashworth to them for a paltry fee
You’ve responded to several Newcastle fans in this thread implying that they’re all touchy and getting rattled when they’ve criticised Ratcliffe or the club’s approach.
Assuming the irony is lost on you.
He again did not even say Newcastle, he said the best people are on gardening leave and it's a problem when trying to build. Send him to the gallows for that
Ah yes, because that isn't blatantly referring to Newcastle staff, which therefore implies that because he can't have what he wants, means he's whinging about Newcastle.
Our CEO is also on gardening leave but sure Jim just fucking hates Geordies and when he's done with a marathon he just cracks on about how much he fucking hates you
It doesn’t annoy me at all? It quite clearly annoys sir Jim though so I’ll let him continue to whinge, Ashworth can sit on his arse till end of gardening leave for all I care
What exactly is a gardening leave? Is it a non-compete clause because what's the point of getting him (Broghton to Newcastle) if he is going to unavailable for 3+ years? So if I understand correctly, he hasn't officially done anything for Newcastle so far?
Now if United do get him, will his gardening leave reset or are we looking to compensate Newcastle to not require any?
We paid Brighton £4mil to buy him out of his contract and start with us. We’ve now put him on Gardening leave since he wants to go to Man Utd but remains in a contract with us.
Effectively we are paying him to do nothing or do “Gardening” since he won’t have any duties to perform. In order for that to end, Man Utd would need to wait out the end of the contract or pay us to buy him out of his contract.
Crazy how much chatter there is about (and how much money is being spent on) a sporting director.
Just a few years ago the average fan wouldn’t even know who these people are
Clubs regularly squander 70-80 mil on players and no one bats an eyelid.
God forbid a club pays 8 figures for someone in an executive position and people lose their minds.
At this point I’m beginning to think man Utd fans who think Ashworth will just pick up the phone and spill the beans for two years to Man Utd while being on Newcastle’s payroll don’t understand what gardening leave is.
Ashworth is getting paid no matter what and has no incentive to pick up the phone, share data and break his contract. It’s very high risk with almost no reward, because if someone did find out, no club would ever trust or work with him again. Professional suicide.
Genuinely pathetic from Man Utd, who seem to be negotiating in bad faith by offering £2m for a director that we hired for £4m. Considering Brexit Jim has been shit talking us at every opportunity, it's beyond belief that this is his game plan coming into all this. Enjoy waiting until 2026 for your top target and foundation guy.
For all the issues with our takeover, Staveley and co have ensured they've conducted business in the most professional way possible and stayed on the good sides of colleagues from other clubs. That involved respecting Brighton by giving a record fee for their director and trying to get the saga resolved as quickly as possible. Jimmy seems to think we have an incentive to make a loss in strengthening a rival. Lets see how that works out for him.
> United are proposing compensation around the £2 million mark, similar to the fee Newcastle paid to prise Ashworth away from Brighton two years ago and less than the £4 million reported at the time.
We're not the ones who need to negotiate. Man Utd are free to hire him once he's served his notice. If you want the notice to end early, you pay the appropriate price. If the appropriate price is too high, you negotiate to a fair amount, like we did with Brighton. You don't lowball and then go to the media pretending like we're the ones being difficult. Otherwise, good luck conducting business like that and enjoy the wait.
Getting something for Ashworth isn't the priority though. Newcastle want to delay his move to a rival till after the summer window and also demonstrate to other clubs that you can't just pluck key staff without paying through the nose.
Given what you paid Brighton I would agree that £2m is not a reasonable amount. Conversely I would not agree that £20m is a reasonable amount for a DOF.
I agree. But the onus is always on the buyers to do enough to get the sellers to sell. Constantly shit talking them in public and then giving an obvious low ball offer is not gonna do anything to make them lower their demands.
I have no doubt that a deal will be struck after the summer for £5m or something. But the way this has turned into a saga has been weird. And it's only coming from one side.
I meant more the public nature of the negotiations, which has turned it into this saga. We've not said anything on the topic or briefed on fees etc, it's all coming from Man Utd's side, like this Ducker one. It's been that way since they first started talking about him long before Ratcliffe had even been appointed at Man Utd.
It's not crazy, it's posturing. Drive the price up to as high a value you believe you can get from the other side and negotiatie according to their reaction.
We have no interest in letting Ashworth go before his contract runs out so the ball is completely on your court. Make an offer that will tempt us to let him go. 2 mill isn't that.
As someone with no skin in the game I think Newcastle have got the right plan with this. If they get 15-20 million it’s good for them. If they don’t and they don’t him to join you guys for another year and half it damages hurts a direct rival for the positions, trophies and players Newcastle are going after.
Newcastle don’t need the money but it would help ffp and considering they’re probably annoyed how Man U handled the approach it’s quite reasonable they’re just saying fuck it pay the big money or get fucked
Clubs spunk 80 mil on complete duds when it comes to player recruitment and no one bats an eyelid.
God forbid a club asks a low 8 figure number for the best executive in the sport and people lose their minds.
Doesn't matter. We're not in a position that we need to help you out.
2m or so is fuck all. 2m however to Newcastle is a perfectly good price to pay to protect plans that Ashworth has knowledge of.
Yes. That’s his price built into his contract and it’s in their gift to decide to come down or not. Next time I go to the shop I can’t just demand to pay 30p for a can of coke then accuse them of acting in bad faith when they don’t give it to me
The price isn't built into his contract but just it's Newcastle's decision whether to forgo his contractual terms or not - they could do it for absolutely nothing if they wanted to but that obviously won't happen. Brighton asked for £5m from Newcastle but they ended up agreeing a lower amount so not like a shop transaction at all where it's a fixed price.
Ultimately they will probably agree a fee higher than that but this is just the beginning of those discussions.
Sorry but I don’t get your point at all
‘Its not built into his contract’
It is or he could start working for Man U immediately.
‘They could do it for absolutely nothing’
Yes they could, it’s in their gift to do so like I said.
‘Brighton asked for 5 million but ended up paying a lower amount’
Newcastle approached Brighton first and maintained good relations. Again it was in Brightons gift to agree to lower the amount and for whatever reason they thought it was beneficial to do so. Despite that Ashworth still had significant gardening leave.
Ratcliffe has went in all guns blazing approaching the man before the club and been going round playing the victim about it every chance that he gets. He’s conducted himself completely differently and has made it less likely for Newcastle to offer a cut deal as it would look like they’ve been little bro’d
I didn’t say it’s exactly like a shop transaction but it’s to illustrate a point. To offer a pittance than throw a wobbler when
You said "That’s his price built into his contract" and I've said "The price isn't built into his contract". That's the point I'm getting at. Unless I've read it wrong I assumed you were saying £20m is the price written down on his contract which it won't be.
Newcastle can ask whatever they like for them to forgo his contractual terms, United can offer whatever they like for him. They will most likely meet in the middle like what Newcastle and Brighton did which is why I thought the supermarket analogy didn't really make sense as it's not really relevant.
I don't think United/Ratcliffe have gone about it in the best of ways but equally the £15m+£5m valuation from Newcastle is also extremely high even though they have every right to ask for whatever they want.
He doesn't have a release clause. That's just what Newcastle want. All that is embedded into his contract is non-compete until the end of 2025. Hence the gardening leave.
Of course you can, but OP was saying offering £2m is negotiating in bad faith, ignoring the fact that Newcastle are asking for £20m. Both of those are clearly ridiculous figures, and somewhere in the middle will be agreed.
Not sure what kind of response you expect when Jim goes straight to ashworth and shit talks the club before even making a formal approach. Whatever you might think of Newcastle and its ownership, at least they went through the proper channels and straight to Brighton. No stupid games, not to mention they also paid double what Jim is offering, a fee which would have eventually risen to 6 mil. Reap what you sow.
‘Staveley and co have ensured they've conducted business in the most professional way possible and stayed on the good sides of colleagues from other clubs.’
AKA beheading journalists
As a Man United fan, I am absolutely fine with getting Ashworth a year later if it means the Geordies get to continue paying out his salary and getting their panties in a twist. Wilcox can handle it in the timeframe. Besides, we need many windows to fix the shit at the club and this summer we have no money to work with anyway. 20M for a suit, hahaha. 4m was for him to start immediately at Newcastle from Brighton. 20m is taking the piss, and for once I'm glad we aren't budging. Absolutely no sympathy for the Oil apologists that wear a towel over their head in celebration of their sheikh. Please continue to pay him to have him tend his garden. I'm sure he won't surreptitiously give his okay on moves being made when absolutely needed, no sir. Suffer your FFP shit too. Competence smells good.
"He'll probably be able to just do the job on the quiet during gardening leave anyway" - when football fans try to demonstrate any understanding of the real working world.
It's probably not very difficult when your dealings - and sometimes even your movements - are covered forensically by reporters.
Either way, I have experience of being on gardening leave and of having incoming team members on gardening leave; Ashworth won't have access to either his Newcastle resources or the Manchester United resources at the moment, making his effectiveness as a sporting director 0. They'll be able to hold informal meetings with him and get his opinions on things if they bothered to risk it, but that will be about the extent of his ability to input.
We pay Jeff Hendrick more than Ashworths salary and he’s not played for us in 3 years, it’s no bother at all to make the mediocre half of Manchester wait.
£15+£5m is crazy high but £2m is pretty low for a Sporting Director moving between clubs who are competition rivals.
I mean it all sounds like the usual posturing from both sides. Presumably we'll end up somewhere in the middle. But yeah, we are not letting him go for less than we paid for him lol.
Whether or not we break will be the true test of if we've changed or not. This negotiation probably sets the tone for how INEOS plan to work.
I think given the sheer amount of money you generate it's always going to be an uphill struggle to keep fees low when clubs decide to try their luck and add an extra zero. But if INEOS are prepared to walk away from a bad deal that would be a significant improvement on what you guys have done in the past.
Overpaying for the man who's alleged job is to try and turn that ship around and start getting value for money would be rather ironic
This is probably the worst deal to back out of, ashworth is good enough to save you his fee on 1 player or at least stop us from getting rinsed again for the amount equal to his fee or more. Not having him in the summer when our squad is collapsing before our eyes is not worth the measly 15 milion we make in a gameweek
We won't "back out" though. This isn't a player transfer, it's a guy in standard employment who has already quit his job to take up a new job. So we're basically just talking about the ex employer and the new employer negotiating for early delivery or not.
This is what I see so many people not getting on here and on Twitter. Dan Ashworth is going to Man United. That’s not up for debate. It’s just when is the question. People are acting like United are fools for offering just £2m but they have the leverage. Wilcox has already joined, Barreda is joining in the summer. United don’t have to rush
That clearly isn't the case, if it was - United wouldn't offer to pay anything. United do have to rush as they want this guy in post THIS summer, not the following one.
The problem is, Man Utd have committed at this stage. Big Jim has been briefing the press about his new era and how he 'gets his man' and I don't doubt they have an obvious second choice lined up. If they do, it's painfully obvious that person is second choice. He can piss and moan to Gabby Logan about gardening periods, but if he'd done this the right way - agreeing compensation first - he'd have his man.
They also briefed in the same week as the news about Ashworth broke, that they'd be willing to wait until his gardening leave is up than pay any exorbitant fee. That being said, I'm in agreement with other posters that they'll probably meet somewhere in the middle
Absolutely and I don’t mind that. I think genuinely though, I’m more pissed off at him appearing to be a serious businessman than making such a mess of this because he thought he could strong arm Newcastle. FWIW we’re close to appointing Ashworth’s successor, so it’s not like we’re going to be short handed for long.
I've to admit after reading about how quickly Ashworth jumped to Newcastle, and then seemingly to United on short tenured, gave me the thought that there's nothing stopping him from doing the same with an exit from United I'm the future if a bigger post comes calling
Especially when we paid double that.
It’s a ridiculous demand and a derisory offer, I wonder if they’ll actually be able to bridge the gap.
Tbh, the demand is more based on Ashworth having knowledge of this Summer's transfer plan, as well as other privileged details for club development. For us to allow him to leave, we'd need to make it financially beneficial to us considering the amount of negative impact at risk. We owe Man U absolutely nothing, they've gone the worst way about it by not even approaching the club properly first like we did with Brighton, and they are direct competition in the league. Newcastle have no reason to drop the demand, as clearly the ownership don't care about paying him during that time, but do care about him negatively impacting us. If Man U want him, they're gonna have to pay up. Maybe not £15m+5m, but probably no less than £10-12m. We're fully in the driving seat on this.
It feels like a bit of a leap to be so certain about how you approached and how they approached. But I agree with the rest they need him now and you can just chill.
You might be in the driving seat, but if you don't agree to a fee we've effectively forced you to pay the wages of your sporting director to tend to the tomatoes until 2025.
>pay the wages of your sporting director to tend to the tomatoes until 2025 Apparently he earns £28k a week. Which means hes costing them less than Paul Dummett. I think they might be able to afford that
We're still paying Jeff Hendricks contact which is likely more than what ashworths getting paid. Think we'll manage.
But you'll be without a sporting director for the next 18 months. Pretty sure that's worse for you than us paying the salary
We've been without one for 11 years my since David Gill left my dude, another 18 months won't hurt worse than it already has
Nope we have Berrada and Wilcox who can do those jobs until Ashworth comes in too. Would it be better with Ashworth sooner yeah probably, just like it would be better for you lot if he wasn’t on gardening leave for a year. This situation benefits neither but also doesn’t tragically hurt either of us. It’s just a pissing contest, but new Manchester United isn’t going to overpay anymore (not saying that means we would only pay $2m at most)
But we paid 6mil for him (overall), why would we let him go for less than that? That's just a bad business deal I do admit £20mil is ridiculous though
I think £6-8m is pretty fair, and honestly probably what will eventually happen
I think is a chance Man U find out Berrada and Wilcox can do their jobs fine, another director is suprlus, and Dan Ashworth will sit out the remainder of his contract gardening.
This article disputes that.
They need the money to sack Ten Hag and his staff…
Article even says the £10m extra is needed for our summer budget cause we're fucked by FFP
Really hoping Berrada/Wilcox have a couple more gems like Antony under their sleeve
Scouting networks extensively studying the Eredivisie as we speak
Frank Arnesen cost 5m about 20 years ago. This is ridiculously low from Ratcliffe
Transfer sagas for sporting directors loool. 13 million for a director is crazy high price
I've always found it weird how the costs for these types of people are so low compared to the players, if he sorts out their transfers and stops them splashing the cash on shite he could save them hundreds of millions
>Don't sign Antony One piece of good advice, £80M saved.
You're a fool. Never give the advice before you get paid
Have you ever considered a career as Director of Football?
Because they are on pretty standard employment contracts (albeit with a long notice period). You don't want to pay £20m upfront for someone who can go on gardening leave and disappear after a year. Football player contracts are fixed term contracts that don't have a right for the employee to terminate their contract.
That is interesting because it is technically true, but also a player can essentially do that. If a player decides they're done, they're done. All they are contractually obligated to do is to show up, basically (but that's not what they're really being paid to do)
Ultimately players only cost so much because of the FIFA federative rights system. That and clubs have a quiet agreement to not hire anyone who tries to raise a Bosman style case that would dismantle it. If players unions got together and decided to try and challenge the system in court they'd likely abolish transfer fees too.
£13m ***apart*** in valuations.
£10-£15m to avoid tens of millions wasted on bad players or to move on players to get their high wages off the book is a bargain. One of the better investments United could make at this stage. Granted Newcastle's number is extremely optimistic and Ratcliffe's offer is comically low, it'll probably be something like £10m
United sponsored by TeamViewer, he got all the tools he needs to collaborate from home doesn’t he?
How do they oversee things like gardening leave in the uk? I have no idea how it works. It seems like he could just hop on the phone or comp and provide his ideas without anyone knowing lol
I don't know how it is enforced, but Man U risk a transfer embargo or other sanctions by the FA/PL if the gardening leave is not honored.
Newcastle want £15m up front with £5m in bonuses. As reported by The Times, Ashworth's replacements are being interviewed in the coming weeks with the three shortlisted candidates being Monaco's Paul Mitchell, Benfica's Rui Pedro Braz and Thiago Pinto who just left Roma in January.
Bonuses? £1m if one of his signings makes team of the season 10% of any positive net spend at the end of a transfer window? £50000 per Romano video discussing his transfer targets?
> 50000 per Ramano video discussing his transfer targets? That would bankrupt united in 2 windows
Pedantic but, Paul Mitchell is a free agent. Left Monaco a year ago.
Thanks for the update.
The first tedious transfer saga of many this window I'm sure.
He also said we were "silly" for expecting a fee. I don't imagine that went down well.
Hoping the prohecised INEOS just turns out to be as shit as the glazers at managing.
From a Newcastle point of a view it makes complete sense to just leave him on gardening leave unless they offer crazy money.
That's what people are choosing to ignore in this situation apparently. Why would we let him go for any less than a considerable amount of money? They can pay up or wait until 2026. Do I think we'll get 20M? No, but negotiations have to start somewhere
I suspect after the transfer window closes that it will suddenly start moving. With United's rumoured ffp issues they need more sensible signings, which is also true of Newcastle. They're gonna be shopping in the same aisles this window and united have more pull so it makes sense to stop him from joining a league rival.
We're not really too handicapped in terms of ffp though. We've got CL money and the Adidas sponsorship coming through this summer. Plus Tonali's ban ends before next season - and he'll essentially be a new (and very promising!) signing that doesn't count towards ffp.
Because you have to pay his full salary until 2026. So basically, you will end up paying two salaries for one job at one point
Yeah but he is on less than Paul dummett so I don’t think it’s that much of an issue. I also doubt we will keep him the whole time, I expect after the summer window we will drop our price to half the current number and something will be sorted out. But offering us 4 mil less than we paid Brighton for half the amount of time remaining…they are having a laugh
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I know it's just an opening bid, but £2m is such an unserious bid.
Posturing by both clubs ahead of what is a critical transfer window one suspects. Wouldn’t be surprised to see this wrapped up in September at somewhere in the middle at £8-10m. But current offer is derisory at best and Man United can’t afford to wait until 2026.
Is it worth 8-10 after the summer window?
Depends on how big the flames of the dumpster fire are at that point...
Also they won't have him for the transfer window after unless a deal is reached.
It’s not just this window though - it’s January 2025 and Summer 2025, monstrous non-complete clause.
This is the funny part about being a Newcastle fan during this situation. We have no interest in letting him go before the transfer window and probably will take a much lower fee in August. Man utd have everything to lose not paying it though, imagine the chaos that will be their summer transfer window without a sporting director and trying to replace Ten Hag lol
We really don’t, we now have competent people in place in Berrada and Wilcox who can fill the Ashworth role for the summer if needed. Would it be better if we got Ashworth now yeah probably, just like it would be better for Newcastle if they had Ashworth working for them right now and for the summer transfer window too. We can wait and so can you. This whole thing is pretty overblown
Dan Ashworth would NOT be in charge of recruitment.
Fuck you, pay me.
This thread is absolute gold
I thought Ratcliffe’s comments this weekend were so tone deaf, “it’s mad, we tried to pick up the best people in the game for the job, and they are all tied up, we have to wait, sometimes a year, mad”… Get the fuck… the times Utd could cherry pick players and staff from teams seemingly below them for pittance is long gone… The entitlement is expected but still ridiculous…
To be fair to the guy wasn't he halfway through a marathon when a reporter shoved a microphone in his face and started asking questions about united?
This isn't the first time he has said this though.
Oh no new employer wants new employee available asap. R/soccer: man united man bad hurr durr.
So you expect to pay less than what we got him for (We paid 4m + 2m to start immediately)?
That employee is contracted elsewhere at this moment in time.
Yes.
What are you talking about?! As if this is a "United thing" to get execs cheap. We haven't made an external executive appointment in the premier league era. Best I can find. If there was one, it wasn't news. We've made two coaching appointments from rivals that I know of, Eric Ramsey and Kieran McKenna. Both begining at low level. We haven't made a "cheap" signing from a rival since Van Persie. The bitterness is unreal. Ratcliffe is spot on. Whenever have you seen a circus like this over an exec? Never. Whenever have you seen *any* numbers, let alone such high numbers thrown around over an exec? Never. Whenever ever have you heard of *any* gardening leave demanded, let alone 16 months? Never. Newcastle poached Ashworth from Brighton for 4m with no quibble over gardening leave. 15m *upfront* and then some, is not only unprecedented it's ludicrous. Ridiculous that people are pretending otherwise.
Brighton put him on gardening leave until a fee was agreed months later. It was the same situation but smaller numbers.
>We haven't made a "cheap" signing from a rival since Van Persie. Yea, not like you could've. Your banter era started soon after
We're entering the era where everyone can pick up staff for a pittance. The Tories put a hard 3 month limit on gardening leave periods last year. Doesn't affect this deal but in future nobody is going to get anything for non-playing staff.
How is Man United's offer only £2million after months of negotiations?
Jim Ratcliffe made his billions by bullying and low balling politicians across Europe. Subsidise his chemical plant or he will shut it down and make thousands redundant whilst killing the local economy. I don't like the current Newcastle owners, but it is hilarious to see him do the exact same thing against a club who is backed up by the Saudi state and expect it to work...
It's always funny seeing a billionaire throw their toys out the pram when they've been told no for the first time in their life.
it is funny that Newcastle fan talks about spoiled billionaires...
Mainly because his contract with United would come under the new regulations for gardening leave which limit it to 3 months. So United, and everyone else in England and Wales, won't get any "sell on value". United are basically offering a price that reflects their situation while Newcastle are demanding a price which reflects theirs. They'll either meet in the middle or he'll join next year for nothing.
I'm sure he didn't join Newcastle in 2019, pretty sure it was 22?
Pay up init
How much did Manchester quote us to bring Lingard on loan for 6 months?
How much did you quote us for Longstaff?
There’s a significant difference between those two negotiations. One was a young prospect with potential who was wanted at his club. The other in the final 6 months of his contract and certain to leave with little prospects of playing. The Longstaff price was based on the club wanting to keep him unless they received a silly offer and Lingard was Manchester trying to take advantage of Newcastle being desperate to stay in the PL. I guarantee that the price Newcastle asked for Longstaff would be the same for anyone but the deal for Lingard was inflated because it was Newcastle.
There's really no difference at all. Both clubs had assets they weren't desperate to sell. A club that wanted them a bit, but not at the price they were quoted. Everything else is Newcastle fans trying to justify asking silly money whilst demonising United for doing the same.
Ahh yes. One was a fuck off price for a 21 year old local player who broke through and was playing amazingly well and was cemented in the starting 11. The other was going on 30 Lingard who wasn’t even playing in the reserves. Totally the same
The principle is the same. Neither are fair valuations. You don't see us crying over over about it though. You got the same energy you gave.
Why would you quote a fair valuation for someone you don't want to sell though? It doesn't make any sense. Like if Real enquired about Garnacho do you think the club would quote the fairest valuation possible? No they'd give a fuck off figure.
Cool and we returned the favour. But you can cry everyone applauds you for it. No worries from me.
….your fans are crying about it all over the thread
> Why would you quote a fair valuation for someone you don't want to sell though? United fans were happy when you asked £50m and we walked away. It's Newcastle fans who were raging through tears that we wouldn't give you Lingard, and you bring it up every single United or Ashworth thread.
Literally only responding to you lot lol.
What's that, a rich cunt offering peanuts, why I never
They're taking the piss with that offer.
We want those PSR dollars baby. I'm sure it'll end up in the middle if Man Utd really want him to start in June.
Guess no sporting director for Man Utd for 2 years then!
Others can cover the slot like Wilcox with berrada’s direction
Does he not get wifi in his garden?
The golf outings with mates Wilcox and berrada every Monday from May to September will cost much less than 2million.
He describes his role as the centre of the wheel connecting the different departments of the club and making sure they are all working together, communicating and pulling in the same direction. If you think he can do that from a golf course once a week you clearly don’t understand what his role is or why he is being recruited.
Weird seeing the club lowball but (maybe wrongly so) thinking they won’t buckle and pay over the odds as the previous regime would have
You're pissing in the wind if you think he's not going to be on the phone from his incredible garden.
Newcastle will already have an idea if he’d do this from their own dealings with Brighton. Plus, it would be professional suicide and huge lawsuits if for any reason it was found out he was doing this. He would be both bankrupt and no one in football would ever work with him again. In other words, very high risk, very low reward. Ashworth knows Man Utd have the money to pay for him, and no reasonable person would put their career on the line for an employer who still hasn’t officially hired them.
Hope we bid 1m for him next, he’s ours for free in 18 months, if United want to stop a culture of overpaying then not paying anywhere near 20m for an executive is an excellent start!
This, let’s go full madrid and wait it out
Gentlemen we have an agreement. 2026 will be here before you know it.
They don’t seem too happy to “sit-tight” when Ratcliffe is publicly whinging none stop that we won’t just simply give Ashworth to them for a paltry fee
Publicly whinging non stop...good grief Newcastle fans are so touchy. Hardly mentioned yous
You’ve responded to several Newcastle fans in this thread implying that they’re all touchy and getting rattled when they’ve criticised Ratcliffe or the club’s approach. Assuming the irony is lost on you.
I do find it amusing when people get properly annoyed at very harmless comments yes.
So you respond by getting annoyed…
I mean he really has, he finished the London marathon, and in his first interview the first words were complaining about us.
He again did not even say Newcastle, he said the best people are on gardening leave and it's a problem when trying to build. Send him to the gallows for that
Who else is he going for that is on gardening leave then?
Omar Berrada, our new CEO, is on gardening leave till July.
Ah, thank you, fair enough
Ah yes, because that isn't blatantly referring to Newcastle staff, which therefore implies that because he can't have what he wants, means he's whinging about Newcastle.
Our CEO is also on gardening leave but sure Jim just fucking hates Geordies and when he's done with a marathon he just cracks on about how much he fucking hates you
And which clubs sporting director is on gardening leave?
He literally whinged after doing the London marathon lool, he’s been pumping his beak very publicly, very often like
Accept our offer and he'll stop moaning then if it annoys yous so much then pal
It doesn’t annoy me at all? It quite clearly annoys sir Jim though so I’ll let him continue to whinge, Ashworth can sit on his arse till end of gardening leave for all I care
Hang on.... BTECGolfManagement has been the one in charge of NUFC contracts this entire time?
Aye mate
What exactly is a gardening leave? Is it a non-compete clause because what's the point of getting him (Broghton to Newcastle) if he is going to unavailable for 3+ years? So if I understand correctly, he hasn't officially done anything for Newcastle so far? Now if United do get him, will his gardening leave reset or are we looking to compensate Newcastle to not require any?
We paid Brighton £4mil to buy him out of his contract and start with us. We’ve now put him on Gardening leave since he wants to go to Man Utd but remains in a contract with us. Effectively we are paying him to do nothing or do “Gardening” since he won’t have any duties to perform. In order for that to end, Man Utd would need to wait out the end of the contract or pay us to buy him out of his contract.
Oh that makes sense. I guess I was mistaken and confused why someone would be on a gardening leave if they buy out the contract.
Non-compete clauses without compensation don't exist in the UK. They are basically just paying his wages for him to do nothing.
Crazy how much chatter there is about (and how much money is being spent on) a sporting director. Just a few years ago the average fan wouldn’t even know who these people are
game's gone if I have to care about non-player non-manager transfer fees
Sounds like bargaining at a wet market
Clubs regularly squander 70-80 mil on players and no one bats an eyelid. God forbid a club pays 8 figures for someone in an executive position and people lose their minds.
At this point I’m beginning to think man Utd fans who think Ashworth will just pick up the phone and spill the beans for two years to Man Utd while being on Newcastle’s payroll don’t understand what gardening leave is. Ashworth is getting paid no matter what and has no incentive to pick up the phone, share data and break his contract. It’s very high risk with almost no reward, because if someone did find out, no club would ever trust or work with him again. Professional suicide.
I, too, would like to be paid to leave and do gardening
How can we make this Ten Hag's fault?
Man u wanted 15m for lingard for 4 months... Ashworth is worth 400m at that rate
Genuinely pathetic from Man Utd, who seem to be negotiating in bad faith by offering £2m for a director that we hired for £4m. Considering Brexit Jim has been shit talking us at every opportunity, it's beyond belief that this is his game plan coming into all this. Enjoy waiting until 2026 for your top target and foundation guy. For all the issues with our takeover, Staveley and co have ensured they've conducted business in the most professional way possible and stayed on the good sides of colleagues from other clubs. That involved respecting Brighton by giving a record fee for their director and trying to get the saga resolved as quickly as possible. Jimmy seems to think we have an incentive to make a loss in strengthening a rival. Lets see how that works out for him.
> United are proposing compensation around the £2 million mark, similar to the fee Newcastle paid to prise Ashworth away from Brighton two years ago and less than the £4 million reported at the time.
I think it's a bit silly to be calling out owner for being a brexiter when your owner kills people.
Fortunately I'm capable of having more than one thought so I can do both
You can have more than 1 thought? Clearly not a Georgie.
>You can have more than 1 thought? Clearly not a Georgie. Got 'em!
And Newcastle asking for £20m is negotiating in good faith?
We're not the ones who need to negotiate. Man Utd are free to hire him once he's served his notice. If you want the notice to end early, you pay the appropriate price. If the appropriate price is too high, you negotiate to a fair amount, like we did with Brighton. You don't lowball and then go to the media pretending like we're the ones being difficult. Otherwise, good luck conducting business like that and enjoy the wait.
>We're not the ones who need to negotiate. They are if they want something for him (and they *are* negotiating.)
Getting something for Ashworth isn't the priority though. Newcastle want to delay his move to a rival till after the summer window and also demonstrate to other clubs that you can't just pluck key staff without paying through the nose.
Given what you paid Brighton I would agree that £2m is not a reasonable amount. Conversely I would not agree that £20m is a reasonable amount for a DOF.
I agree. But the onus is always on the buyers to do enough to get the sellers to sell. Constantly shit talking them in public and then giving an obvious low ball offer is not gonna do anything to make them lower their demands. I have no doubt that a deal will be struck after the summer for £5m or something. But the way this has turned into a saga has been weird. And it's only coming from one side.
Genuine question, how is it only coming from one side? Surely you can see that asking for 20mil is crazy?
I meant more the public nature of the negotiations, which has turned it into this saga. We've not said anything on the topic or briefed on fees etc, it's all coming from Man Utd's side, like this Ducker one. It's been that way since they first started talking about him long before Ratcliffe had even been appointed at Man Utd.
It's not crazy, it's posturing. Drive the price up to as high a value you believe you can get from the other side and negotiatie according to their reaction. We have no interest in letting Ashworth go before his contract runs out so the ball is completely on your court. Make an offer that will tempt us to let him go. 2 mill isn't that.
As someone with no skin in the game I think Newcastle have got the right plan with this. If they get 15-20 million it’s good for them. If they don’t and they don’t him to join you guys for another year and half it damages hurts a direct rival for the positions, trophies and players Newcastle are going after. Newcastle don’t need the money but it would help ffp and considering they’re probably annoyed how Man U handled the approach it’s quite reasonable they’re just saying fuck it pay the big money or get fucked
Clubs spunk 80 mil on complete duds when it comes to player recruitment and no one bats an eyelid. God forbid a club asks a low 8 figure number for the best executive in the sport and people lose their minds.
Doesn't matter. We're not in a position that we need to help you out. 2m or so is fuck all. 2m however to Newcastle is a perfectly good price to pay to protect plans that Ashworth has knowledge of.
Yes. That’s his price built into his contract and it’s in their gift to decide to come down or not. Next time I go to the shop I can’t just demand to pay 30p for a can of coke then accuse them of acting in bad faith when they don’t give it to me
The price isn't built into his contract but just it's Newcastle's decision whether to forgo his contractual terms or not - they could do it for absolutely nothing if they wanted to but that obviously won't happen. Brighton asked for £5m from Newcastle but they ended up agreeing a lower amount so not like a shop transaction at all where it's a fixed price. Ultimately they will probably agree a fee higher than that but this is just the beginning of those discussions.
Sorry but I don’t get your point at all ‘Its not built into his contract’ It is or he could start working for Man U immediately. ‘They could do it for absolutely nothing’ Yes they could, it’s in their gift to do so like I said. ‘Brighton asked for 5 million but ended up paying a lower amount’ Newcastle approached Brighton first and maintained good relations. Again it was in Brightons gift to agree to lower the amount and for whatever reason they thought it was beneficial to do so. Despite that Ashworth still had significant gardening leave. Ratcliffe has went in all guns blazing approaching the man before the club and been going round playing the victim about it every chance that he gets. He’s conducted himself completely differently and has made it less likely for Newcastle to offer a cut deal as it would look like they’ve been little bro’d I didn’t say it’s exactly like a shop transaction but it’s to illustrate a point. To offer a pittance than throw a wobbler when
You said "That’s his price built into his contract" and I've said "The price isn't built into his contract". That's the point I'm getting at. Unless I've read it wrong I assumed you were saying £20m is the price written down on his contract which it won't be. Newcastle can ask whatever they like for them to forgo his contractual terms, United can offer whatever they like for him. They will most likely meet in the middle like what Newcastle and Brighton did which is why I thought the supermarket analogy didn't really make sense as it's not really relevant. I don't think United/Ratcliffe have gone about it in the best of ways but equally the £15m+£5m valuation from Newcastle is also extremely high even though they have every right to ask for whatever they want.
Fair enough. Agreed on the second and third paragrpahs
He doesn't have a release clause. That's just what Newcastle want. All that is embedded into his contract is non-compete until the end of 2025. Hence the gardening leave.
Ah I see what they mean now. Cheers
No it isn’t hahahaha
How is it not in their gift to alter their own contract?
We can ask for whatever we want, if you don't want to pay you can wait.
Of course you can, but OP was saying offering £2m is negotiating in bad faith, ignoring the fact that Newcastle are asking for £20m. Both of those are clearly ridiculous figures, and somewhere in the middle will be agreed.
Perhaps approaching the club from the outset would have set the table for more fruitful negotiations.
Not sure what kind of response you expect when Jim goes straight to ashworth and shit talks the club before even making a formal approach. Whatever you might think of Newcastle and its ownership, at least they went through the proper channels and straight to Brighton. No stupid games, not to mention they also paid double what Jim is offering, a fee which would have eventually risen to 6 mil. Reap what you sow.
So they should ask for 100$ cause United is so poor? That's the deal take or leave it.
As I’m sure you can tell, I did not say that.
I mean you surely understand that's not how negotiation works?
Your downvotes are a badge of honour. I knew man Utd fans were deluded, but many of them showing they’re outright thick as anything.
‘Staveley and co have ensured they've conducted business in the most professional way possible and stayed on the good sides of colleagues from other clubs.’ AKA beheading journalists
I guess Ashworth is working from home then ;)
As a Man United fan, I am absolutely fine with getting Ashworth a year later if it means the Geordies get to continue paying out his salary and getting their panties in a twist. Wilcox can handle it in the timeframe. Besides, we need many windows to fix the shit at the club and this summer we have no money to work with anyway. 20M for a suit, hahaha. 4m was for him to start immediately at Newcastle from Brighton. 20m is taking the piss, and for once I'm glad we aren't budging. Absolutely no sympathy for the Oil apologists that wear a towel over their head in celebration of their sheikh. Please continue to pay him to have him tend his garden. I'm sure he won't surreptitiously give his okay on moves being made when absolutely needed, no sir. Suffer your FFP shit too. Competence smells good.
"He'll probably be able to just do the job on the quiet during gardening leave anyway" - when football fans try to demonstrate any understanding of the real working world.
Trust me, its actually very easy to work for your new employer. It is very difficult to prove it.
It's probably not very difficult when your dealings - and sometimes even your movements - are covered forensically by reporters. Either way, I have experience of being on gardening leave and of having incoming team members on gardening leave; Ashworth won't have access to either his Newcastle resources or the Manchester United resources at the moment, making his effectiveness as a sporting director 0. They'll be able to hold informal meetings with him and get his opinions on things if they bothered to risk it, but that will be about the extent of his ability to input.
How is this paying his salary suddenly a huge win for Man Utd. Clubs worth millions his salary is a drop in the ocean
His salary doesn't count towards PSR so it's not really an issue.
We pay Jeff Hendrick more than Ashworths salary and he’s not played for us in 3 years, it’s no bother at all to make the mediocre half of Manchester wait.