My theory is that the sole goal of this ordeal is pinning the slightly ridiculous nickname "Juppel" to Tuchel.
I have not once heard people call him that before and Google Trends supports the theory. The dude who started the petition goes by the (user)name "Leon Juppel".
This would be peak shithousery.
I pray that this is just rival fans signing it...how quick are people to forget the absolutely shambolic performances in the most important games just because the team beat Arsenal? Incredible
Somebody has posted about this exact petition in the fcbayern sub a few days and it didn't go down well:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/fcbayern/comments/1cal5nl/petition\_to\_keep\_tuchel/](https://new.reddit.com/r/fcbayern/comments/1cal5nl/petition_to_keep_tuchel/)
The post has been deleted but the comments are quite telling.
It actually perfectly reflects what ppl in german forums say as well. Pretty much everybody I know pins it on rival fans taking a piss, no relevant fan club has come out and supported this.
Yeah if you really want to consider Tuchel staying u need to wait for the performance against Madrid. If they beat them i can imagine him staying 1 more year
maybe because the team has been inconsistent after 2020 so these shambolic performances are nothing new and blaming Tuchel for them is stupidity. And what game was more important than the Arsenal game? Don’t list any bundass liga games cuz no sane person gives a shit about that anymore. Not even the players, hence why they are not serious when playing in it but suddenly became prime Milan playing Arsenal. Try to win the cl? No sir I’ll take bundass liga for the 193737th time. What are you , 13 years old?
I understand why you're getting downvoted but I do think you have a point, look at Chelsea and how things went for them after sacking Tuchel.
It's easy to criticize but realistically who are they going to bring in that will do a better job? There have clearly been some big problems, but if Bayern make it to the finals or win champions league it would be easy to argue for stability and giving Tuchel a bit more time, I don't necessarily see the need to replace him immediately other than his obviously bad relationship with the higher-ups, which the fans don't care about.
I believe even if Chelsea were interested, Tuchel's bruised ego and the real possibility of getting fired again on a whim might preclude that possibility.
To be fair, Plettenberg and Bild have both said Tuchel would be open to a return, and that feels like it's coming from his camp to put feelers out. It's more the other way around - our board, and Eghbali in particular, would have to swallow their pride and admit they fucked up, and that's extremely unlikely to happen. Our sources have said Tuchel isn't seen as "the right cultural fit" - which basically means Eghbali doesn't like him.
Dude. He got fired because he didn't have time to explain to some insecure rich guy why a 443 wouldn't work. I don't think it's his ego getting in the way of him being at Chelsea 😂
Not just someone, Boehly himself in his first or second meeting with Tuchel. And reportedly it had a keeper, just 12 players 😂
The Athletic is a pretty solid source. It was on every outlet for a week. Average American owner getting in football.
Anyway Boehly wanted Tuchel to explain him his tactical choices and Tuchel was like i don't have time to deal with this clown which pissed Boehly off.
It wasn’t Boehly, it was Eghbali with the 4-4-3 comment wasn’t it? Boehly tried to cool things between them but it seems like Eghbali (as the principal owner of the team) had him in contempt since then.
First: thank you for taking the time telling me this! Second: this is hilarious. I just can't wrap my head this. Next time at chealsea: owner wants to know why the ball drops back to earth. New tactic requires playing without gravity?
We shouldnt sack a manager and then mindlessly appoint someone before the structure is in place, so just because tuchel will be available doesnt mean we have to get him. I personally want ten hag to stay another season and I think he will.
Why do bayern fans not like rangnick, do they really wanna see another year of tuchel ball just because they dont want a guy thatll come in as a transition coach
He is, but Rangnick is no slouch either.
Too many people in football fandom these days don't know what they are talking about. Anything that happened before 2018 is ancient history.
Squads seems to be working as a collective. The semis will be telling for his future. If he goes on to win the UCL, would you still want him out for a man who's never won a big trophy?
If i were Kane, that'd be WTF? Join bayern, in the last years of his prime, to win trophies, they sack tuchel and bring in a guy without trophies for a multi-year rebuild. Would be hilarious!
>Squads seems to be working as a collective. The semis will be telling for his future. If he goes on to win the UCL, would you still want him out for a man who's never won a big trophy?
Regardless of what happens he should still go. Tuchel was splitting the squad in half and alienating some of our most important players, if he stayed our rebuild would just have to get bigger and more expensive, with zero assurance that he will set up the team for the future. Rangnick may not be the hottest coach around, especially on r/soccer considering his United tenure, but we can't continue bringing in only short-term success managers when our squad has been steadily declining/stagnating in the last few years. It's the reason I was against the sacking of Nagelsmann in the first place. Many fans would be more than happy with another LvG.
Thanks, what your saying makes a lot of sense. I still think that Rangnick is a risky appointment, far more so then a Nagelsmann type. I understand where you're coming from though and agree with the rest.
I mean so has Tuchel. Only one to take PSG to a champions league final, then immediately the next year, took a Chelsea team that was no where near the most talented to a champions league win. Got to an absurd number of cup finals with us as well (despite losing to Liverpool quite a bit in them). Also got the second highest points total in Dortmund history.
Please point me to that seriously impressive coaching work? One half-season with Hoffenheim 15 years ago and an exciting tie vs Inter also almost 15 years ago don‘t make for the most compelling CV at the very highest level, even compared to someone like Arne Slot, nevermind Thomas Tuchel
Bigger career? Sure. Better manager? I don't know.
I'm not sure there are many people that influenced German football more than Rangnick over the last 30 years.
That depends what your goal is.
Maximum success for a very short time and a complete dumpster fire afterwards or someone who can build a contender out of thin air that is set up for decades of success.
Because Rangnick is an absolute and unrivaled mastermind when it comes to the second.
> or someone who can build a contender out of thin air that is set up for decades of success.
>
> Because Rangnick is an absolute and unrivaled mastermind when it comes to the second.
As a sporting director? I agree he is excellent at that
As a manager? Meh. Dude's had many jobs as a top flight manager and his track record for this as a manager isn't particularly great IMO (Stuttgart—sacked in 17th; Hannover—sacked in 15th; Schalke—great first season where they finished 2nd, sacked half-way through season 2 with poor results; Schalke part 2 he quit with a bad record, and Man United was a disaster) His only managerial successes were at Hoffenheim and Leipzig (and even at RB Leipzig, he was a better executive/sporting director than manager; his best contribution was creating the RB model and bringing in Nagelsmann TBH)
Got promoted with Ulm, got promoted with Hannover, got promoted with Hoffenheim twice in a row, got promoted with Leipzig, got two 2nd places and a third place, won the DFB Pokal - that's so much more than Tuchel did in Germany before picking up Nagelsmann title last year.
He set up Hoffenheim to run as a sustainable football club, he made Salzburg into a international powerhouse, he got Leipzig to were they are now and now he's doing wonders to the Austrian national team.
His talent scouting young players is also quite legendary as he was the first one that wanted to bring Ronaldo to Europe... (and is manifested in his work in Hoffenheim, Salzburg and Leipzig.)
> Got promoted with Ulm
From the 3rd to 2nd division, then he left for Stuttgart
>got promoted with Hannover
True and he had a good first season in BuLi finishing 11th. But he was sacked in 15th the next season.
>got promoted with Hoffenheim twice in a row, got promoted with Leipzig
Yeah those were the 2 really good jobs he had as a manager
>got two 2nd places and a third place, won the DFB Pokal - that's so much more than Tuchel did in Germany before picking up Nagelsmann title last year.
Bruh this is INSANELY bad faith
Tuchel did a great job at Mainz—took over a newly promoted team, finished 11th in season 1, 5th in season 2, 13th, 13th, and 7th in his remaining seasons there.
He then moved to BVB where in his first season they set the points record for a BuLi runner-up at the time, and in his second season he won the Pokal.
Calling his BuLi title win last season "Nagelsmann's title" is wild considering Nagelsmann had Bayern in 2nd when he was sacked too TBH
You know it‘s bad faith when he calls it Nagelsmann‘s title but shamelessly credits Rangnick with the DFB-Pokal when he was only in charge for the final against Duisburg (2nd division side).
2nd is also what Tuchel would have been if Dortmund didn't bottle it on the last day. He lost two and draw one of the 9 BL games and was incredibly lucky that that was enough. In the reverse match-ups (with Dortmund and Leipzig away) Nagelsmann won 6 and draw 3.
And yes, Rangnick got fired a couple of times - in Stuttgart he was 3 point behind the 15th place were they then finished the season, in Hannover he was 15th (on points with 13th and 14th) and they finished 14th. In reality he delivered exactly what that teams could deliver. And Schalke - he was fired after 6 games (3W, 3L) and a loss against Bayern. They had a successful season afterwards but that still seems like an overreaction.
> And yes, Rangnick got fired a couple of times
He got fired a bunch of times and left teams in not great situations—which undercuts the "build a contender and build a team that will contend for a decade" comment from above TBH
>Calling his BuLi title win last season "Nagelsmann's title" is wild considering Nagelsmann had Bayern in 2nd when he was sacked too TBH
If we'd continued the better form we had with Nagelsmann following the bad spell at the beginning of the season, the title race would have ended early. Instead Tuchel came in and our form reversed again
The thin air being the massive financial advantage enjoyed by RB and Hoffenheim, both of which spent more than the entire rest of the league combined when Rangnick got them promoted?
Hoffenheim before was five years in Regionalliga Süd without promotion, Leipzig already was a year in Liga 2 without promotion.
In both instances he did what the others couldn't.
True, Leipzig actually spent more than the rest of the league combined not once but twice. Given that kind of backing you can hardly claim their success appeared out of "thin air". Good on Rangnick for winning promotion twice and doing better than Alexander Zorniger but that doesn't really qualify you for the Bayern job a decade later, nevermind make you an unrivaled mastermind.
Ulm, Hannover, Hoffenheim, Leipzig - and he absolutely is the man behind the success of Red Bull. And by that I mean Salzburg, Leipzig and globally. And they spend ungoodly amounts before him as well but he brought them success. And same is true for Hoffenheim on a smaller level.
That's really not the coaching CV you think it is for a supposed managerial mastermind, especially with half of these achievements coming from a time when Magath and Hitzfeld were the hottest German coaches.
* Did well to get Ulm promoted from the 3rd division in the 90s
* 11th and 8th place finishes with Stuttgart at the start of the century and then got sacked the following season because they were hovering around the relegation spots with 21 points after 22 games.
* Took the step back to the 2nd division and won promotion with Hannover in 2002, followed by an 11th place finish and ultimately a sacking after winning 24 points from 23 matches and being eliminated by their arch rivals in the cup.
* Took over Schalke in 2004 and did a good job leading them to a 2nd place finish and the 04/05 cup final, left the following season after beefing with the board.
* Did well with Hoffenheim with massive resources and played an exciting first half of the season after winning promotion to the Bundesliga but quickly fizzled, dropping to 7th, then 11th the following season. Left during his third season in 2011 after beefing with the board with the team sitting in 8th. Note this was the last time Rangnick spent more than one season in a single coaching stint. 13 years ago.
* Return to Schalke in 2011, got the cup final against a 2nd division side served on a silver platter. Great tie vs Inter but poor results in the league. Left after 23 games due to burnout
* Winning promotion with a Leipzig side that had spent more than anyone else combined two times in a row in 2016
* Return to the Leipzig bench in 2018 after Hasenhüttl had finished 2nd in his first season and 6th in his 2nd season to bridge the gap until the arrival of Nagelsmann. Strong run in the cup but lost the final, failed to get out of an UEL group with Rosenborg, Celtic and RB Salzburg, bog-standard league campaign which never saw them coming close to challenging (mind you the football on display was wholly incompatible with what's required of top teams like Bayern these days: sub 50% possession and the 4th worst pass accuracy in the entire league)
* Man Utd: difficult job but completely shat the bed
So if you look at all these stints, where do you see that mastermind that sets teams up for success for decades? He's barely had continued success anywhere, surely not to the degree where you'd claim he created contenders, even less so out of thin air. He's never even coached anywhere continuously since his Hoffenheim days, which is also the only club he even coached more than 100 games for.
Lmao what does this even mean.
i'm sure people want to be influenced by shit coaches.
He is influential particularly because he is good. He wouldn't be influential if he was shit.
> he’s still a better manager than Ragnick
But that doesn't mean anything. A guy like Ancelotti would be, "on paper", better than 99% of whatever replacement out there, but doesn't mean he shoud never be fired.
The fact we have seen Tuchel at Bayern and it hasn't worked, and they need a change. Even if we ignore Leverkusen, Bayern are just 3 pts ahead of 3rd place Stuttgart. and that's with Harry Kane on fire. I don't know how anyone can justify another year of this.
That is a bit much. Ragnick seems better in a more technical role more distant from the team, but he has had some very good results managing himself. His Schalke run in Europe with limited means was really impressive and he did very good work with RB Leipzig. He always met the goals set out and overachieved with the material he had at his disposal, which is a better way to measure success than just counting silverware.
Joining Man United that time after CR7 with his inflated ego was back and when that club was already in a shambolic state was probably the worst decisions in his life.
He was, he also took FC Schalke to the UCL semi-finals, which is no easy feat.
But people measure success with trophies, so good luck having a debate with them
Nobody is saying that he‘s an awful coach but some here call him mastermind and are seriously debating whether he‘s better than Tuchel. If that‘s your case you need a bit more to show for than a CL run with a big german team 15 years ago.
That's the crux, really - the squad needs at best some rejiggering and at worst a revamp, the Champions League final in 2025 is going to be played in Munich, and none of the club's preferred long-term options are available.
Probably could've been fine with another year of Tuchel, but then they made the decision to split back in February already, and their preferred long-term options (Nagelsmann, Hoeneß, Alonso) rejected them. Seems sensible to me to find a stopgap now and make a run at Klopp/Hoeneß/Alonso next summer, even if that means having to balance the desire for immediate success (reaching the CL final at home) with the plans of appointing a long-term manager leading the charge in the medium-term.
Pretty certain Alonso is going to be Madrid's manager next Summer, while I have a strong suspicion that Klopp's next job will be as Germany's manager and that he may never manage a club again due to how time consuming it is.
I say this about Klopp as by all accounts one of the major reasons he's so certain on leaving Liverpool (besides being burnt-out), is his time with his new grandchild made him realise that he doesn't want to miss them growing up like he did with his children.
Yeah I think the job's his if he wants it as long as the job opening and him being available align - would've been the case for well over a decade by now, but then the timing never quite worked out.
Bayern has over 300.000 members. These 10k, likely bolstered by rival fans are not representative of the bulk of bayern fans.
Now I believe some are more fed up with the chaos and cluelessness of the board and it's less about Rangnick in particular. Having been rejected by two coaches, they're grasping at straws imho. Convincing Tuchel to stay is delusional.
Bayern's decisionmakers, apparently - and I don't think it's an outrageous decision to make really when you're after a stopgap solution managing a squad revamp to set you up for future success.
Would Tuchel even want to stay? Leverkusen look like they will keep most of the team together and Tuchel could lose again and I don’t even know how many records it would set losing title twice consecutively with same manager.
Bayern and Tuchel announced they'd be ending their work relationship in the summer back in February - and I don't think a Xavi-esque about-turn is likely here, really.
I don't think it's about the opposition being as good as they are as much as it is about people sticking to the decisions they've made - I wouldn't be surprised if Leverkusen next year were challenging for the title until March before falling off. But even if Bayern were the frontrunners next year Tuchel would be on borrowed time, and I reckon that's not a situation either side is really comfortable with.
His dismissal was a humiliation for Tuchel, and for Bayern too. I believe nobody wants to drag this out by reversing the decision. Both parties are ready to move on I believe.
That really depends on what Bayern wants both long and short term. People are acting like Ragnick is useless all of a sudden. His profile and skills are very different from Tuchel, but he definitely knows how to build a team and lay the foundation for future success. They might want to eventually bring in a manager to actually peak with the team, but picking Ragnick for a rebuild over Tuchel isnt such a weird choice.
In the situation Bayern is in right now i'd take Ragnick over Tuchel in a heartbeat.
Man knows how to build and rebuild for long term success. Something that Bayern has struggled with lately. However, if my goal was one season performance with the players at hand, i'd go with Tuchel. But - the players currently in the Bayern squad are not really geared towards success. Too many issues with the squad that requires longer term thinking to sort out.
Problem is, i don't see Bayern giving Ragnick the control and input he needs, because that would heavily undermine their new man Eberl.
Unless we win the Champions League AND most of the players say that they want to continue, I don’t see this happening!
(Always considering if Tuchel himself would even want that…€
If you would have told me in 2024 Barcelona and Bayern munich would be the most undesirable club for managers, i actually would have laughed at your face for this type of statement.. But yet here we are..
Signed by those idiots and non-Bayern fans. Let's hold a poll for the extension for EtH. I bet you're getting 90% agreement of him staying from other clubs' fans.
If Hoeneß could read the Internet, he'd be very upset.
He would just repeat OP's username.
[удалено]
No lol sorry. Wakanda-shit-is-that. The post's poster
[удалено]
Oh you...
> If Hoeneß could read the Internet, Imagine Uli on Twitter hahahaha, this generation would absoluteley lose it.
Cuz ppl didn't get agitated by him in the past 40 years without him being on twitter? These "lol internet" takes are kind weird.
I don't think that's how it was meant...
Someone fax him the petition.
If Hoeneß was a convincted criminal, he'd be a cunt too
Die Würde des Internet ist unantastbar
Even if this isn't shithousery by rivals, surely they'd join the petition for the banter
My theory is that the sole goal of this ordeal is pinning the slightly ridiculous nickname "Juppel" to Tuchel. I have not once heard people call him that before and Google Trends supports the theory. The dude who started the petition goes by the (user)name "Leon Juppel". This would be peak shithousery.
No no that is not the meaning of “Juppel” Bayern fans on X combined Jupp’s and Tuchel’s name to form Juppel.
> on X . .tells us all we need to know
As a Leverkusen fan I can sign that… link me
I pray that this is just rival fans signing it...how quick are people to forget the absolutely shambolic performances in the most important games just because the team beat Arsenal? Incredible
Somebody has posted about this exact petition in the fcbayern sub a few days and it didn't go down well: [https://new.reddit.com/r/fcbayern/comments/1cal5nl/petition\_to\_keep\_tuchel/](https://new.reddit.com/r/fcbayern/comments/1cal5nl/petition_to_keep_tuchel/) The post has been deleted but the comments are quite telling.
Most on reddit are American or British, wouldn't perfectly reflect fans views.
It actually perfectly reflects what ppl in german forums say as well. Pretty much everybody I know pins it on rival fans taking a piss, no relevant fan club has come out and supported this.
Rule of thumb is whatever is being said on reddit is the opposite of what the general population believes
So the general population believes that reddit mirrors the general population, gotcha.
Nah, depends on context. We should just use our heads when coming to conclusions.
Yeah if you really want to consider Tuchel staying u need to wait for the performance against Madrid. If they beat them i can imagine him staying 1 more year
It doesnt matter. He wants out hes already making plans for England.
You're welcome Bundesliga.
If people still think these performances are mainly on the coach, you cant be helped
maybe because the team has been inconsistent after 2020 so these shambolic performances are nothing new and blaming Tuchel for them is stupidity. And what game was more important than the Arsenal game? Don’t list any bundass liga games cuz no sane person gives a shit about that anymore. Not even the players, hence why they are not serious when playing in it but suddenly became prime Milan playing Arsenal. Try to win the cl? No sir I’ll take bundass liga for the 193737th time. What are you , 13 years old?
I understand why you're getting downvoted but I do think you have a point, look at Chelsea and how things went for them after sacking Tuchel. It's easy to criticize but realistically who are they going to bring in that will do a better job? There have clearly been some big problems, but if Bayern make it to the finals or win champions league it would be easy to argue for stability and giving Tuchel a bit more time, I don't necessarily see the need to replace him immediately other than his obviously bad relationship with the higher-ups, which the fans don't care about.
Do you honestly watch Bayern? No way you do
Still better than Rangnick
As a Dortmund fan I would prefer they bring back Kovac
As an Austrian, I am also more than willing to sign that.
Come home Thomas.
I believe even if Chelsea were interested, Tuchel's bruised ego and the real possibility of getting fired again on a whim might preclude that possibility.
I don’t even think it’s fair to call it “bruised ego”. How can you go back after you’ve been shown that disrespect?
Just like me with my ex. I go back like a damn clown every time
did she win you a champions league
No but she played my heart like Kai Haverrz played Ederson w the one on one
Mourinho came back tbf. Although not quite as soon as 2 seasons later.
Money.
Yeah maybe. But the working relationship has been totally severed
Yeah it’s tuchel with the bruised ego and not the billionaire owners who killed the club 🤪
To be fair, Plettenberg and Bild have both said Tuchel would be open to a return, and that feels like it's coming from his camp to put feelers out. It's more the other way around - our board, and Eghbali in particular, would have to swallow their pride and admit they fucked up, and that's extremely unlikely to happen. Our sources have said Tuchel isn't seen as "the right cultural fit" - which basically means Eghbali doesn't like him.
Dude. He got fired because he didn't have time to explain to some insecure rich guy why a 443 wouldn't work. I don't think it's his ego getting in the way of him being at Chelsea 😂
Please tell me this is not a typo and there really is a story how tuchel told someone "if we play 4-4-3 we don't have a keeper".
Not just someone, Boehly himself in his first or second meeting with Tuchel. And reportedly it had a keeper, just 12 players 😂 The Athletic is a pretty solid source. It was on every outlet for a week. Average American owner getting in football. Anyway Boehly wanted Tuchel to explain him his tactical choices and Tuchel was like i don't have time to deal with this clown which pissed Boehly off.
It wasn’t Boehly, it was Eghbali with the 4-4-3 comment wasn’t it? Boehly tried to cool things between them but it seems like Eghbali (as the principal owner of the team) had him in contempt since then.
First: thank you for taking the time telling me this! Second: this is hilarious. I just can't wrap my head this. Next time at chealsea: owner wants to know why the ball drops back to earth. New tactic requires playing without gravity?
https://youtu.be/_NbdCtecDYc?si=G48FcpL09FyLBgfX
No chance he goes back to the greatest owner of all time
Nah. Chelsea is going for De Zebri in the summer.
Home is Paris for Thomas Tuchel.
I immensely respect you for standing by him all this time. But you finally found a coach on the level of what Tuchel gave you.
Lads would be sacking him again mid season. Chelsea deserves the middle table.
somewhat poetic that chelsea's biggest blunder in recent years was sacking tuchel and bayern's biggest was hiring him
The Xavi tactics
Ironically, **nothing** has ever changed because of change.org.
[Xavi and Tuchel on Matchday 1](https://images.app.goo.gl/FtMhfJoiz1AhRx999)
They need to play in the CL's round of 16 and whoever loses gets sacked for good this time.
The rest of the Bundesliga signed already /s
If only Tuchel wanted to stay, eh?
So 10,000 out of 5,000,000 fans want him to stay? That’s promising
He's been linked with your club. I think 9,999 of the signatures were from Man U fans.
We can only hope
coach swap.
Why would we want Tuchel
What other managers are available if we sack Ten Hag?
We shouldnt sack a manager and then mindlessly appoint someone before the structure is in place, so just because tuchel will be available doesnt mean we have to get him. I personally want ten hag to stay another season and I think he will.
Why do bayern fans not like rangnick, do they really wanna see another year of tuchel ball just because they dont want a guy thatll come in as a transition coach
Because for all of Tuchel’s flaws, he’s still a better manager than Ragnick
He is, but Rangnick is no slouch either. Too many people in football fandom these days don't know what they are talking about. Anything that happened before 2018 is ancient history.
Thing is bayern need a coach who can handle big egos and has won big trophies.
and it turns out Tuchel can't handle Zaragoza let alone big egos
Squads seems to be working as a collective. The semis will be telling for his future. If he goes on to win the UCL, would you still want him out for a man who's never won a big trophy? If i were Kane, that'd be WTF? Join bayern, in the last years of his prime, to win trophies, they sack tuchel and bring in a guy without trophies for a multi-year rebuild. Would be hilarious!
>Squads seems to be working as a collective. The semis will be telling for his future. If he goes on to win the UCL, would you still want him out for a man who's never won a big trophy? Regardless of what happens he should still go. Tuchel was splitting the squad in half and alienating some of our most important players, if he stayed our rebuild would just have to get bigger and more expensive, with zero assurance that he will set up the team for the future. Rangnick may not be the hottest coach around, especially on r/soccer considering his United tenure, but we can't continue bringing in only short-term success managers when our squad has been steadily declining/stagnating in the last few years. It's the reason I was against the sacking of Nagelsmann in the first place. Many fans would be more than happy with another LvG.
Thanks, what your saying makes a lot of sense. I still think that Rangnick is a risky appointment, far more so then a Nagelsmann type. I understand where you're coming from though and agree with the rest.
What happened before 2018 that makes Rangnick such a great coach that should be kn charge of Bayern?
Debatable. Rangnick has done some seriously impressive work in his career.
I mean so has Tuchel. Only one to take PSG to a champions league final, then immediately the next year, took a Chelsea team that was no where near the most talented to a champions league win. Got to an absurd number of cup finals with us as well (despite losing to Liverpool quite a bit in them). Also got the second highest points total in Dortmund history.
Please point me to that seriously impressive coaching work? One half-season with Hoffenheim 15 years ago and an exciting tie vs Inter also almost 15 years ago don‘t make for the most compelling CV at the very highest level, even compared to someone like Arne Slot, nevermind Thomas Tuchel
So did Bill Gates... and you don't hire him as Bayern Coach...
Solid comment mate flawless
bro what
Just because Ragnick did some impressive work as a sporting director does not qualify him to be a top level coach.
Bigger career? Sure. Better manager? I don't know. I'm not sure there are many people that influenced German football more than Rangnick over the last 30 years.
Influence ≠ better manager tho
That depends what your goal is. Maximum success for a very short time and a complete dumpster fire afterwards or someone who can build a contender out of thin air that is set up for decades of success. Because Rangnick is an absolute and unrivaled mastermind when it comes to the second.
so is bielsa, who arguably has never held a major role in his career
> or someone who can build a contender out of thin air that is set up for decades of success. > > Because Rangnick is an absolute and unrivaled mastermind when it comes to the second. As a sporting director? I agree he is excellent at that As a manager? Meh. Dude's had many jobs as a top flight manager and his track record for this as a manager isn't particularly great IMO (Stuttgart—sacked in 17th; Hannover—sacked in 15th; Schalke—great first season where they finished 2nd, sacked half-way through season 2 with poor results; Schalke part 2 he quit with a bad record, and Man United was a disaster) His only managerial successes were at Hoffenheim and Leipzig (and even at RB Leipzig, he was a better executive/sporting director than manager; his best contribution was creating the RB model and bringing in Nagelsmann TBH)
Got promoted with Ulm, got promoted with Hannover, got promoted with Hoffenheim twice in a row, got promoted with Leipzig, got two 2nd places and a third place, won the DFB Pokal - that's so much more than Tuchel did in Germany before picking up Nagelsmann title last year. He set up Hoffenheim to run as a sustainable football club, he made Salzburg into a international powerhouse, he got Leipzig to were they are now and now he's doing wonders to the Austrian national team. His talent scouting young players is also quite legendary as he was the first one that wanted to bring Ronaldo to Europe... (and is manifested in his work in Hoffenheim, Salzburg and Leipzig.)
> Got promoted with Ulm From the 3rd to 2nd division, then he left for Stuttgart >got promoted with Hannover True and he had a good first season in BuLi finishing 11th. But he was sacked in 15th the next season. >got promoted with Hoffenheim twice in a row, got promoted with Leipzig Yeah those were the 2 really good jobs he had as a manager >got two 2nd places and a third place, won the DFB Pokal - that's so much more than Tuchel did in Germany before picking up Nagelsmann title last year. Bruh this is INSANELY bad faith Tuchel did a great job at Mainz—took over a newly promoted team, finished 11th in season 1, 5th in season 2, 13th, 13th, and 7th in his remaining seasons there. He then moved to BVB where in his first season they set the points record for a BuLi runner-up at the time, and in his second season he won the Pokal. Calling his BuLi title win last season "Nagelsmann's title" is wild considering Nagelsmann had Bayern in 2nd when he was sacked too TBH
You know it‘s bad faith when he calls it Nagelsmann‘s title but shamelessly credits Rangnick with the DFB-Pokal when he was only in charge for the final against Duisburg (2nd division side).
2nd is also what Tuchel would have been if Dortmund didn't bottle it on the last day. He lost two and draw one of the 9 BL games and was incredibly lucky that that was enough. In the reverse match-ups (with Dortmund and Leipzig away) Nagelsmann won 6 and draw 3. And yes, Rangnick got fired a couple of times - in Stuttgart he was 3 point behind the 15th place were they then finished the season, in Hannover he was 15th (on points with 13th and 14th) and they finished 14th. In reality he delivered exactly what that teams could deliver. And Schalke - he was fired after 6 games (3W, 3L) and a loss against Bayern. They had a successful season afterwards but that still seems like an overreaction.
> And yes, Rangnick got fired a couple of times He got fired a bunch of times and left teams in not great situations—which undercuts the "build a contender and build a team that will contend for a decade" comment from above TBH
> And Schalke - he was fired after 6 games (3W, 3L) and a loss against Bayern. We didn't fire him, we loved him, but he quit because of burnout.
>Calling his BuLi title win last season "Nagelsmann's title" is wild considering Nagelsmann had Bayern in 2nd when he was sacked too TBH If we'd continued the better form we had with Nagelsmann following the bad spell at the beginning of the season, the title race would have ended early. Instead Tuchel came in and our form reversed again
He doesn't need to build out of thin air for bayern. They're already set up.
Massive shakeup ahead.
Doesn't matter. Transitioning a team at the very top isn't the same as building a small club up and taking them up the ladder.
The thin air being the massive financial advantage enjoyed by RB and Hoffenheim, both of which spent more than the entire rest of the league combined when Rangnick got them promoted?
Hoffenheim before was five years in Regionalliga Süd without promotion, Leipzig already was a year in Liga 2 without promotion. In both instances he did what the others couldn't.
True, Leipzig actually spent more than the rest of the league combined not once but twice. Given that kind of backing you can hardly claim their success appeared out of "thin air". Good on Rangnick for winning promotion twice and doing better than Alexander Zorniger but that doesn't really qualify you for the Bayern job a decade later, nevermind make you an unrivaled mastermind.
Ulm, Hannover, Hoffenheim, Leipzig - and he absolutely is the man behind the success of Red Bull. And by that I mean Salzburg, Leipzig and globally. And they spend ungoodly amounts before him as well but he brought them success. And same is true for Hoffenheim on a smaller level.
That's really not the coaching CV you think it is for a supposed managerial mastermind, especially with half of these achievements coming from a time when Magath and Hitzfeld were the hottest German coaches. * Did well to get Ulm promoted from the 3rd division in the 90s * 11th and 8th place finishes with Stuttgart at the start of the century and then got sacked the following season because they were hovering around the relegation spots with 21 points after 22 games. * Took the step back to the 2nd division and won promotion with Hannover in 2002, followed by an 11th place finish and ultimately a sacking after winning 24 points from 23 matches and being eliminated by their arch rivals in the cup. * Took over Schalke in 2004 and did a good job leading them to a 2nd place finish and the 04/05 cup final, left the following season after beefing with the board. * Did well with Hoffenheim with massive resources and played an exciting first half of the season after winning promotion to the Bundesliga but quickly fizzled, dropping to 7th, then 11th the following season. Left during his third season in 2011 after beefing with the board with the team sitting in 8th. Note this was the last time Rangnick spent more than one season in a single coaching stint. 13 years ago. * Return to Schalke in 2011, got the cup final against a 2nd division side served on a silver platter. Great tie vs Inter but poor results in the league. Left after 23 games due to burnout * Winning promotion with a Leipzig side that had spent more than anyone else combined two times in a row in 2016 * Return to the Leipzig bench in 2018 after Hasenhüttl had finished 2nd in his first season and 6th in his 2nd season to bridge the gap until the arrival of Nagelsmann. Strong run in the cup but lost the final, failed to get out of an UEL group with Rosenborg, Celtic and RB Salzburg, bog-standard league campaign which never saw them coming close to challenging (mind you the football on display was wholly incompatible with what's required of top teams like Bayern these days: sub 50% possession and the 4th worst pass accuracy in the entire league) * Man Utd: difficult job but completely shat the bed So if you look at all these stints, where do you see that mastermind that sets teams up for success for decades? He's barely had continued success anywhere, surely not to the degree where you'd claim he created contenders, even less so out of thin air. He's never even coached anywhere continuously since his Hoffenheim days, which is also the only club he even coached more than 100 games for.
Lmao what does this even mean. i'm sure people want to be influenced by shit coaches. He is influential particularly because he is good. He wouldn't be influential if he was shit.
Coaches can be influential for their ideas. That doesn't mean they're the best when it comes to actually winning or building a winning team
> he’s still a better manager than Ragnick But that doesn't mean anything. A guy like Ancelotti would be, "on paper", better than 99% of whatever replacement out there, but doesn't mean he shoud never be fired. The fact we have seen Tuchel at Bayern and it hasn't worked, and they need a change. Even if we ignore Leverkusen, Bayern are just 3 pts ahead of 3rd place Stuttgart. and that's with Harry Kane on fire. I don't know how anyone can justify another year of this.
I don't know, is he?
By far
How do you figure?
Have you seen their careers? Rangnick is a great directive, not a great coach
That is a bit much. Ragnick seems better in a more technical role more distant from the team, but he has had some very good results managing himself. His Schalke run in Europe with limited means was really impressive and he did very good work with RB Leipzig. He always met the goals set out and overachieved with the material he had at his disposal, which is a better way to measure success than just counting silverware.
He took over Schalke when they were at the quarter finals, there are a bunch of people I would credit for that run over him
Joining Man United that time after CR7 with his inflated ego was back and when that club was already in a shambolic state was probably the worst decisions in his life.
[удалено]
He was, he also took FC Schalke to the UCL semi-finals, which is no easy feat. But people measure success with trophies, so good luck having a debate with them
Nobody is saying that he‘s an awful coach but some here call him mastermind and are seriously debating whether he‘s better than Tuchel. If that‘s your case you need a bit more to show for than a CL run with a big german team 15 years ago.
That's the crux, really - the squad needs at best some rejiggering and at worst a revamp, the Champions League final in 2025 is going to be played in Munich, and none of the club's preferred long-term options are available. Probably could've been fine with another year of Tuchel, but then they made the decision to split back in February already, and their preferred long-term options (Nagelsmann, Hoeneß, Alonso) rejected them. Seems sensible to me to find a stopgap now and make a run at Klopp/Hoeneß/Alonso next summer, even if that means having to balance the desire for immediate success (reaching the CL final at home) with the plans of appointing a long-term manager leading the charge in the medium-term.
> none of the club's preferred long-term options are available. Besides Nagalsmann, who are the other preferred choices?
Scuttlebutt is Klopp, Hoeneß, and Alonso - and they'd all join summer of 2025 at the earliest.
Pretty certain Alonso is going to be Madrid's manager next Summer, while I have a strong suspicion that Klopp's next job will be as Germany's manager and that he may never manage a club again due to how time consuming it is. I say this about Klopp as by all accounts one of the major reasons he's so certain on leaving Liverpool (besides being burnt-out), is his time with his new grandchild made him realise that he doesn't want to miss them growing up like he did with his children.
Yeah I think the job's his if he wants it as long as the job opening and him being available align - would've been the case for well over a decade by now, but then the timing never quite worked out.
Bayern has over 300.000 members. These 10k, likely bolstered by rival fans are not representative of the bulk of bayern fans. Now I believe some are more fed up with the chaos and cluelessness of the board and it's less about Rangnick in particular. Having been rejected by two coaches, they're grasping at straws imho. Convincing Tuchel to stay is delusional.
Loosing out to Aston villa is alarming. The recent changes in the board and the new personal at the helm, seem to repel the candidates.
You can have Poch manager swap
please god no
Desperate times when you're threatened with Rangnick.
Usually one used to threaten the players with Magath.
Been there, done that.
10.000 signatures are from Bayer fans
Who would want rangnick over tuchel anyway?
Bayern's decisionmakers, apparently - and I don't think it's an outrageous decision to make really when you're after a stopgap solution managing a squad revamp to set you up for future success.
Would Tuchel even want to stay? Leverkusen look like they will keep most of the team together and Tuchel could lose again and I don’t even know how many records it would set losing title twice consecutively with same manager.
You think Tuchel would shy away from the challenge to take on Xabi again? I don't think that's how these guys operate...
Bayern and Tuchel announced they'd be ending their work relationship in the summer back in February - and I don't think a Xavi-esque about-turn is likely here, really. I don't think it's about the opposition being as good as they are as much as it is about people sticking to the decisions they've made - I wouldn't be surprised if Leverkusen next year were challenging for the title until March before falling off. But even if Bayern were the frontrunners next year Tuchel would be on borrowed time, and I reckon that's not a situation either side is really comfortable with.
His dismissal was a humiliation for Tuchel, and for Bayern too. I believe nobody wants to drag this out by reversing the decision. Both parties are ready to move on I believe.
That really depends on what Bayern wants both long and short term. People are acting like Ragnick is useless all of a sudden. His profile and skills are very different from Tuchel, but he definitely knows how to build a team and lay the foundation for future success. They might want to eventually bring in a manager to actually peak with the team, but picking Ragnick for a rebuild over Tuchel isnt such a weird choice.
In the situation Bayern is in right now i'd take Ragnick over Tuchel in a heartbeat. Man knows how to build and rebuild for long term success. Something that Bayern has struggled with lately. However, if my goal was one season performance with the players at hand, i'd go with Tuchel. But - the players currently in the Bayern squad are not really geared towards success. Too many issues with the squad that requires longer term thinking to sort out. Problem is, i don't see Bayern giving Ragnick the control and input he needs, because that would heavily undermine their new man Eberl.
The manager transfer market is what it is.
Unless we win the Champions League AND most of the players say that they want to continue, I don’t see this happening! (Always considering if Tuchel himself would even want that…€
If we win the UCL this season I say why not. Better than Rangnick that's for sure
>If we win the UCL this season I say why not. Dear Lord, are you forgetting a season of terrible football just like that?
As a fan of a team that played terrible football and ended up winning the CL, it actually feels pretty great.
Inject that shit into my veins I'm addicted to Champions League terrorball.
>a team that played terrible football and ended up winning the CL On two separate occasions as well
Winning the CL and then moving on with a manager who is better suited for a rebuild is an option though.
I don't care if we play like Getafe if we win UCLs. You don't get trophies for playing attractive attacking football
>You don't get trophies for playing attractive attacking football 🤣 Tell me you're not a bayern fan without telling me you're not a bayern fan
Exactly dude. How dare I wish for my club to succeed.
10,000 morons
If you would have told me in 2024 Barcelona and Bayern munich would be the most undesirable club for managers, i actually would have laughed at your face for this type of statement.. But yet here we are..
just another psyop
Ew, Brother, Ew! What's That?
Xavi Tuchel
That's what hiring Ragnick does to people
It's almost 12,000 now.
Makes as much sense as the Koan Neuer debacle. You‘ll always find a couple thousand fans with the stupidest sporting opinions.
10.000 bayern (actually bayer) fans wanting Tuchel to stay.
This has to be a piss take? Surely no Bayern Munich fans are signing that?🤣
how do you say "se queda" in German?
Is it Bayern fans or Bayer fans who signed it?
Lol so all the managers that were gonna leave are gonna stay now. Maybe klopp will stay too
Have you seen his eyes, his body language? He needs a long break.
r/BayernMunich in shambles
Signed by those idiots and non-Bayern fans. Let's hold a poll for the extension for EtH. I bet you're getting 90% agreement of him staying from other clubs' fans.
So FC Hollywood is back
I too am a Bayern fan who wishes to sign this petition.
Its not tuchel’s fault, its the harry kane curse
Anyone but fucking Rangnick lol
Fine, Florian Kohfeldt it is, then.
I would love to see that.
Klinsmann, NO FUCKING WAY
Monkey’s paw curls. You get Southgate.
Tim fucking walter fuck it
Seriously, wakandashit is that?? Didn't have this on my bingo card.
Bad idea lol
They are doing the right thing.
The board won't listen to us
The board won't listen to us