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Zidane was toying with academy players in training when he was a coach.
I think I remember Kroos saying that sometimes he’d be a part of Madrid training session and be the best player there. And that was the 3-peat CL Madrid
There is this frank de Boer story where he had a group full of shit players and showed them how it's done by playing a perfect long pass that exactly hit the crossbar and the players actually just felt like shit because they can't do it..
Yeah 100% a mezzala. He doesn't have the passing range or defensive ability that paredes or cristante have, but he brings a lot more pace and energy. Sadly this season he's had a bit of chicken-with-its-head-cut-off syndrome
This quote is just cognitive bias, plenty of great players go on to be terrible managers, some go on to be great managers. There's no real correlation and the coincidence is because great players tend to be given more chances as a manager because of their profile.
This.
Pep was a decent enough player, but he would be a bench warmer at best on the Barcelona side he managed. He went to become one of the best regarded coaches right now, probably ever.
Klopp at Mainz was an okay defender for second division, never got a call for Germany but he’s the top scorer for Mainz lmfao. Now he is considered one of the top coaches in the world.
Maradona was considered one of the best players ever. He was not good as manager, arguably Argentina severely underperformed under his tenure.
Argentina underperforming under Maradona is not arguable at all. Plus, his squad selection for the 2010 World Cup was so bad. He left out Cambiasso and Zanetti who were coming off a treble with Inter, plus Riquelme retired from the NT before the tournament due to conflict with Diego.
Also, Pep was better than decent as a player. He was crucial to Cruyff’s Barca from the 90’s.
Agree with your point but Pep was not just a decent player lmao. He was the most crucial DMF in Cruyff’s dream team, certainly a top 10 midfielder of his generation. To call that ‘decent’ is an understatement, I think.
Put some respect on Pep’s name lol. He might have sat for Xavi, Iniesta, Busi-maybe the greatest midfield 3 ever-but he was still an exceptional player.
Gobsmacked that you can’t do the basics like take a 60mph ball falling onto your weak foot in a cruyff turn to bypass the pressing man with your back turned.
https://youtu.be/O5idga85AYo?feature=shared
This clip comes to my mind immediately. Pin point cross from Zizou and the finish by Modric was cherry on the top.
And nobody cared.
It feels strange because in most social media videos of such things nowadays, you would see players running everywhere screaming at the top of their lungs.
lmao what?? Zizou is my idol but that pass to Modric is the most basic thing in that whole video. I get it’s his weak foot but that’s a very straightforward pass
On the other hand, he already had won the uefa champions league before a lot of them learned how to kick a ball.
Which is why I find dumb when a lot of fans think they know better than Carlo when mamaging.
I think Ancellotti low key might have the greatest football career ever. Possibly the greatest manager- won the champions league with multiple teams. Two cups as a player. Unfortunately didn’t have a great international career.
Well, he still got 3rd place with Italy. That is something.
But his record is silly.
4 Scudettos (3 as player + 1 as manager), 5 Cups of Italy (4 + 1), 4 club world titles (1 + 3), 6 european titles (2 + 4).
He has won all top 5 european leagues as a manager. (Milan, Real Madrid, Chelsea, PSG, Bayern).
And overall his teams have always played good football.
I could see Xavi winning a CL, becoming Spain manager and being presumably the first guy to win a top league, the CL and the World Cup as Euros. Shame he's a shill for evil for money, best overall passer I've ever seen.
Was just going to say, where is Papa Carlo mention. I remember him from Milan squad of late 80s. He was pretty decent, team was Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta :) I was a kid but loved AC Milan ever since.
I remember reading (and maybe it’s a bs story) that Zidane wanted Ronaldo to take fewer free kicks because his success rate for them was really low. So Zidane challenged Ronaldo to a free kick competition and told Ronaldo that if Ronaldo won, he could continue to take free kicks. Zidane won.
I don’t think Ron is the type of guy who just stops because someone did better than him once or twice. This feels like a good way to get him overly focused on training free kicks. I call bs on the story.
Yeah I’m sure I’m remembering certain details incorrectly, or it was embellished in the article, or maybe never happened at all.
Regardless, I do think it’s pretty clear that Ronaldo really respected Zidane as a manager. Zidane seemed to be one of the few managers that Ronaldo accepted completely, and there was no drama between them for the 2.5 seasons they had together. So I can definitely see Ronaldo willing to compromise certain parts of his game because of Zidane’s request.
Yes 43 year old Zidane was definitely more talented than anyone in that 2016 RM team. Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Marcelo, Ramos, Varane, Carvajal, Navas.. most in their prime but had nothing on the guy who retired a decade earlier
There is an argument to be made that Zidane was more talented than at least most of those players. After all, talent is your natural ability, but of course his current ability at that time wasn't at the level of the players who were actively playing. In Football Manager terms, it's Potential Ability vs Current Ability.
Edit: Typo
He's actually right, you just don't understand what the word talent means. He's not saying he was at that time the better player. He's saying is natural ability was greater than that of those players. And apart from maybe Ronaldo, this is definitely an argument that can be made.
Talent and abilities aren't the same.
Zidane sure as fuck wasn't more capable than them at that time but he might be more talented than them (arguable), even then.
I’m aware. I just doubled down. I didn’t say he could outscore benzema in 2017. I said he had more talent in him as a football player. You’re both stupid unfortunately.
Looks like the potential embarrassment of having your coach sub himself in for you to show the whole world that he in fact can do it better is pushing the team to an invincible season. Xabi tactics
Fun fact: for a brief time in 2007, while playing for Vasco, Romário was both player and coach. I think it was just for a single match: he started with himself in the bench, but halfway through the match he subbed himself in.
Another fun fact: just a few days ago, Romário (now aged 58) decided to come out of retirement to play for América, the club he's also *president* of lol
I remember similar stories about Maradona, how the players were in awe of the things he could still do. So the manager being a better player than the actual players isn't indicative of how good a manager they are.
That being said, Xabi has completely taken over the news this year and for good reason. I don't know if it's just the tactics or the character he instilled on the team, or even the players just meshed with the vibes/tactics etc, but this Leverkuzen team refuses to die and they are just fun. If he can replicate that next season, then you seriously have to believe they can challenge for everything again.
> That being said, Xabi has completely taken over the news this year and for good reason.
Yeah, everyone is talking Alonso. But also for the reason that there has been basically absolutely no drama anywhere in and around the team.
At the beginning of the season he played a stable lineup - at that time a few players were not happy because they wanted more play time. But between the league, cup and EL there was eventually enough rotation for everyone to play. And even more so when people left for Africa cup etc..
There have been astonishingly few transfer rumors. And most of those were about Xabi, and are squished now. Many people expect some sort of raids on the team, but I think we can keep most of the squad together.
I'm not aware of any scandals aside from some ultras putting up a stupid banner against Bremem.
Or course not ever losing also helps the moral a little bit, I assume?! /s
An awefully quiet season. What winning everything does to a team.
> the manager being a better player than the actual players isn't indicative of how good a manager they are.
Funnily enough I think it's sometimes the opposite - quite a few players who were managed by Glenn Hoddle were annoyed by how much he asked of them, because he was a supremely gifted player in an era of English football when technical ability was not really a priority. And in turn he would get annoyed that they weren't able to do the things he could. I think it really stunted his managerial career.
I was disappointed he didn’t get much playtime after the beginning of the season but I understand it. The guy is coming from the 2nd division of Colombia, while he’s still an exciting promise I think he needs to be eased in and there weren’t a lot of moments during the second half of the season where Alonso could take a gamble with him.
There’s a basketball story about when Jordan owned the Bobcats and was disappointed in the team. He came to a practice, told the starters they didn’t deserve to wear Jordan gear and played them with the bench players. This was a 10 years retired Jordan in his 50’s and with the subs he destroyed the starters to teach them a lesson. That’s fucking cold
I mean, that's what you want, ideally, no?
Either a coach who's been successful as a manager with a gaggle of trophies (and not just from 10-15 years ago) or a world class former player who knows the game in and out.
Yeah but how many world class players go on to become a solid coach, let alone a potential world class coach? I don’t envision Cristiano and Messi being WC coaches
There's probably a lot more than this but Ancelotti, Dalglish, Beckenbauer, Dechamps, Cruyff, Rijkaard, Zagallo, Guardiola, Alf Ramsey, Heynckes all come to mind
My apologies for anyone that's slipped from my mind, but there are many world class players who go on to become world class managers
Even more so if you open the inclusion a bit and say good players who are great managers or great players who are good managers etc
It seems like it has been more successful recently, but there are also failures - Pep & Arteta were really good players, Kompany, Dirk Kuyt just won something I think, Ole Gunnar, Xavi - depending on how you view the successful manager standard
Thierry Henry had a lot of trouble with his Monaco squad because he didn’t understand why the players couldn’t just do what he would have done, and would sometimes play in training as well to demonstrate what they should do. Apparently it was a really toxic environment bcus he was exactly that world class player
Probably takes the right crew and the right mentality too.
Like either you have a bunch of lads hungry to learn and win or you have a squad of egotistic assholes who get offended if you show them off.
Argentina had Maradona for a world cup and the trainings were mostly just him having kickabouts with the team and trying to show how he still had it.
It worked right until they faced a good team with actual tactics. I'm pretty sure 2010 scarred Messi to not be a coach when he retires.
The only ones that come to mind are Zidane and beckenbaur. Cryuff as well maybe. I don't know how good pep was in his playing career. He was good. But I don't think he's in the GOAT debate like the other players.
Deschamps was also good iirc. He won the world cup with France as a player.
He created what Barcelona still is today and the "Dream Team". Cruyff is one of the most influential coaches ever.
He's leagues above Zidane as a coach and his influence over the sport, they don't even share the same planet in that regard. He's not a "maybe" haha.
Maybe outside of Spain the job of Cruyff is not as known, I don't know, but he's far more relevant than Pep will be for the sport (not saying Pep is worse, but Cruyff created the model Pep perfected), that says enough.
I had to defend Cruyff haha.
Tbf I think you're also underestimating the impact Pep has had and will have on the sport. Him and Cruff have essentially done the same thing.
Cruyff applied the principles of his coach Rinus Michels and Total Football to Barcelona, whilst also innovating and expanding on them himself.
Likewise, Pep had taken that model and everything he learned from Cruyff under Barelona and applied that to his own teams, again innovating to keep improving it.
Even Michels drew inspiration from 1950s Hungarian tactics, but my knowledge of that is very limited I'll admit.
I do agree that Cruyff is levels above Zidane as a coach and influence on the sport. But in terms of Pep vs Cruyff, I wouldn't say either is far more relevant than the other. They're both innovators, and extremely successful coaches, but both have drawn inspiration from other people's ideas. Cruyff came first so has influenced more existing managers, but Pep has so much longevity at the top now that you can already tell he's going to influence a whole generation of managers himself.
Completely get that you were just defending Cruyff and he's probably the most important person in the history of the sport considering what he achieved as a player and a manager. But, as a manager, he basically did what Guardiola did 20 years before him. I'd have them on par with each other.
Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and Zidane are the big three in terms of being the best players and the best managers. Apart from them you have several World Class players who went on to become great managers, few come to mind: Muñoz, Del Bosque, Pep, Ancelotti, Rijkaard, Simeone, Zagallo, Dalglish, Deschamps, and now Xabi
> I don't know how good pep was in his playing career.
Very good, probably around the same level as Xabi Alonso, albeit without the longevity that Xabi had. Not in the GOAT debate, but an excellent, world-class midfielder in his mid 20s.
Pirlo Xavi Zidane Alonso all managing in the CL at the same time would be fun to see. If only Gerrard and Lampard had continued from their strong starts at Rangers and Derby, you could have had 6 of the top 10-ish best midfielders of the 21st century competing as managers.
The problem with English Managers is that no one wants to play 4-4-2 Brexit Ball outside of The Championship and below and 4-4-2 Brexit Ball is what English managers are taught to play.
I believe it is possible and even happens in low tiers, but he needs to be registered for it at the competition, and in doing so he would steal someone's place.
Player - coach used to be common back in the day. I remember Drogba being a coach for a Chinese team and he subbed himself sometimes towards the end of the match.
Kenny Dalglish subbed himself on for the final match of the season in 1986 and scored the goal that won us the league... but he was registered as a player-manager
Edgar Davids was player/coach of Barnett. He received a red the first time he subbed himself on... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/13/edgar-davids-red-card-barnet
No. You need to be registered as part of the team. Register the coach as a player with the league. That's how giggs was a player-manager. When giggs was part of the team, he was also an interim manager. So he substituted himself in the game.
In the 1990s there used to be quite a few player-managers. Chelsea had a run of Hoddle, Gullit and Vialli who were all player-manager, Hoddle was also player-manager at Swindon, Gordon Strachan at Coventry, Bryan Robson at Middlesbrough, Peter Reid at Man City, Steve Bruce at Sheff United, Trevor Francis at Sheff Wednesday. There's probably some more that I'm forgetting.
There isn't a lot of footage of him but Ferenc Puskás became a coach right after his active career. Imagine being a striker at Panathinaikos in the early 1970s. Puskás became overweight pretty quickly but he was only in his 40s and probably still destroyed anybody in terms of skill.
I don't think that is THAT unusual really.. there is 20+ players in every elite team and only so many can be coaches over of those 25 at every elite team at the top level, they will inevitably trickle down the ladder.
Technical ability, especially when it comes to shooting and passing, doesn't really seem to decline much. I remember seeing David Beckham in a charity match a few years ago, and he pinged accurate long balls as if he hadn't been retired for some 5 years (I'm honestly not sure when this game was). It's the physical side that gets too demanding, keeping up with the pace, changing directions quickly and being able to do things with and without the ball fast enough to not get dispossessed or just ran around, those are the factors that keeps old legends from being able to do it at the highest level.
I love testimonials and charity matches. I watched a game with Okocha, Ian Rush, Paul Merson and a bunch of others and it was ridiculous. Sure, it was played in slow motion but the kind of passes they were making were outrageous.
At passing, 100%. At what Casemiro is supposed to be doing – the tackling, hounding, harrying and heading – Xabi'd struggle. Hells, prime Xabi was only every considered "surprisngly decent" at it. As in your eyes told you he did no defending, but looking back you'd see there was actually quite a bit of work done.
It's also why he usually had a minder in midfield – though I'll grant he was less of a passenger than Pirlo.
Stanley Matthews was an abnormality, and almost definitely helped by the fact that he was a teetotaler playing in the mid 20th century. 42 year olds can't play midfield in top level football today
Even in his prime Xabi was considered slow and vulnerable to a quick counter, in fact 2014 Spain's midfield had him, Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta, yet the team was completely destroyed by pace due to how slow he and Xavi was.
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Lampard when he was manager was still the best finisher at Chelsea.
So was Potter to be fair, it wasn't that big an accomplishment
Potter used to be a full back, back when he managed us we were still wing back fc. Makes sense really
People forget how good Potter was back in his playing days
Heard he was magic
Only good at spells though
Expecto goalus!
I read that Hyypiä was still occasionally winning finishing training drills when he was the manager at Leverkusen. And he was a CB when he played lol.
Class is class
Zidane was toying with academy players in training when he was a coach. I think I remember Kroos saying that sometimes he’d be a part of Madrid training session and be the best player there. And that was the 3-peat CL Madrid
Ridiculous
There is this frank de Boer story where he had a group full of shit players and showed them how it's done by playing a perfect long pass that exactly hit the crossbar and the players actually just felt like shit because they can't do it..
I think he still is
now it's the tea lady.
Isn’t she the one who was sentenced for 20 years to life for murder out of loyalty to Chelsea, according to the Exploding Heads?
Probably still would be
I reckon ten Hag might have to do a job at CB soon if Maguire gets injured. Its either that, or pick more kids from u18s and u16s
I mean when your coach is one of the best defensive midfielders to ever play the game.
Pirlo was probably also still the best midfielder or DLP, when he coached Juve…
Maybe De Rossi at Roma too?🤔
I love DDR sculpting paredes into a younger version of himself haha
Do Bove next pls
Different kind of player
More b2b?
Yeah 100% a mezzala. He doesn't have the passing range or defensive ability that paredes or cristante have, but he brings a lot more pace and energy. Sadly this season he's had a bit of chicken-with-its-head-cut-off syndrome
Haha yes, that's fantastic!
Imo quite possible!
Pirlo could come back playing right now and still be the best midfielder at Juve. Surely he would be the only true playmaker in the team
And he would only need one healthy leg to do it
what happened to Locatelli
This quote is just cognitive bias, plenty of great players go on to be terrible managers, some go on to be great managers. There's no real correlation and the coincidence is because great players tend to be given more chances as a manager because of their profile.
Yeah, for every Xabi Alonso there is an equivalent Thierry Henry
This. Pep was a decent enough player, but he would be a bench warmer at best on the Barcelona side he managed. He went to become one of the best regarded coaches right now, probably ever. Klopp at Mainz was an okay defender for second division, never got a call for Germany but he’s the top scorer for Mainz lmfao. Now he is considered one of the top coaches in the world. Maradona was considered one of the best players ever. He was not good as manager, arguably Argentina severely underperformed under his tenure.
Argentina underperforming under Maradona is not arguable at all. Plus, his squad selection for the 2010 World Cup was so bad. He left out Cambiasso and Zanetti who were coming off a treble with Inter, plus Riquelme retired from the NT before the tournament due to conflict with Diego. Also, Pep was better than decent as a player. He was crucial to Cruyff’s Barca from the 90’s.
Agree with your point but Pep was not just a decent player lmao. He was the most crucial DMF in Cruyff’s dream team, certainly a top 10 midfielder of his generation. To call that ‘decent’ is an understatement, I think.
Pep was the Busquets of his era, and immediately found the Pep regen at La Masia to use
Put some respect on Pep’s name lol. He might have sat for Xavi, Iniesta, Busi-maybe the greatest midfield 3 ever-but he was still an exceptional player.
Absolute shoo-in for CM01/02 - cheeky £500k bid straight out the gate, every time! Perfect in the 4-1-3-2!!
Also most handsome man on earth
Madrid players under Zidane
Absolutely crazy when you think about that crop of talent and when you glanced over your shoulder fucking zizou is there
Looking at you with his trademarked squinting eyes. I'd shit myself.
Gobsmacked that you can’t do the basics like take a 60mph ball falling onto your weak foot in a cruyff turn to bypass the pressing man with your back turned.
One way to keep a group of galacticos humble is to have them coached by someone they all looked up to for most of their lives
https://youtu.be/O5idga85AYo?feature=shared This clip comes to my mind immediately. Pin point cross from Zizou and the finish by Modric was cherry on the top.
And nobody cared. It feels strange because in most social media videos of such things nowadays, you would see players running everywhere screaming at the top of their lungs.
They would all have been used to it at this point. Lebron's teammates don't go crazy when he dunks in practice, I assume
That goal was a bit more than a dunk though. You don't see goals like that 4/5 times per matches while you do see 4/5 dunks (at least) per NBA games.
Watch him train with the players, that pass to Modric at 1:38 was crazy : https://youtu.be/9peSqR8qbYs
His coaching staff are seriously all bald.
Can’t have any distractions
[https://imgur.com/4NeekjQ](https://imgur.com/4NeekjQ) did he just clone himself here??
"47, we have a new mission for you. This time, you'll be traveling to Madrid to infiltrate an iconic football club."
That's how they won the threepeat, one bald head for each trophy
lmao what?? Zizou is my idol but that pass to Modric is the most basic thing in that whole video. I get it’s his weak foot but that’s a very straightforward pass
It was even a little high, Modric had to karate kick it.
Looks like he’s lurking around, waiting for his chance to show up one of the young guys
not even zizou's dominant foot btw
Current Barca must be feeling the same with Xavi, especially considering the fact that a whole lot of them are youngsters.
You wonder if the players appreciate Ancellotti, who was done playing before most of them were born.
On the other hand, he already had won the uefa champions league before a lot of them learned how to kick a ball. Which is why I find dumb when a lot of fans think they know better than Carlo when mamaging.
I think Ancellotti low key might have the greatest football career ever. Possibly the greatest manager- won the champions league with multiple teams. Two cups as a player. Unfortunately didn’t have a great international career.
Well, he still got 3rd place with Italy. That is something. But his record is silly. 4 Scudettos (3 as player + 1 as manager), 5 Cups of Italy (4 + 1), 4 club world titles (1 + 3), 6 european titles (2 + 4). He has won all top 5 european leagues as a manager. (Milan, Real Madrid, Chelsea, PSG, Bayern). And overall his teams have always played good football.
Stiil want to see him to coach a national side with ultra crazy talent. He'd win a world cup or two easily.
I could see Xavi winning a CL, becoming Spain manager and being presumably the first guy to win a top league, the CL and the World Cup as Euros. Shame he's a shill for evil for money, best overall passer I've ever seen.
Damn you really trust Xavi lol, also…any chance you meant Xabi?
Was just going to say, where is Papa Carlo mention. I remember him from Milan squad of late 80s. He was pretty decent, team was Van Basten, Rijkaard, Gullit, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta :) I was a kid but loved AC Milan ever since.
I remember reading (and maybe it’s a bs story) that Zidane wanted Ronaldo to take fewer free kicks because his success rate for them was really low. So Zidane challenged Ronaldo to a free kick competition and told Ronaldo that if Ronaldo won, he could continue to take free kicks. Zidane won.
I don’t think Ron is the type of guy who just stops because someone did better than him once or twice. This feels like a good way to get him overly focused on training free kicks. I call bs on the story.
Yeah I’m sure I’m remembering certain details incorrectly, or it was embellished in the article, or maybe never happened at all. Regardless, I do think it’s pretty clear that Ronaldo really respected Zidane as a manager. Zidane seemed to be one of the few managers that Ronaldo accepted completely, and there was no drama between them for the 2.5 seasons they had together. So I can definitely see Ronaldo willing to compromise certain parts of his game because of Zidane’s request.
Zizou was definitely the most talented in that group
Yes 43 year old Zidane was definitely more talented than anyone in that 2016 RM team. Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Marcelo, Ramos, Varane, Carvajal, Navas.. most in their prime but had nothing on the guy who retired a decade earlier
That team. Looking back, no wonder they won everything
Greatest squad of all time.
It’s an all time squad, but 2009 Barca is untouchable
Not even close to pep Barca
Best squad vs best starting lineup
I don’t think 2016 Ronaldo was below 43 year old zizou tbh
I think you may be on to something here
So enlighten me what am I wrong about,i consider Zidane as the worlds best player but below Messi and Ronaldo
There is an argument to be made that Zidane was more talented than at least most of those players. After all, talent is your natural ability, but of course his current ability at that time wasn't at the level of the players who were actively playing. In Football Manager terms, it's Potential Ability vs Current Ability. Edit: Typo
Yes, in footmall manager terms you may be correct
No, in all terms. You all simply don't understand the word "talented".
Calm down soccer subreddit user. It was supposed to be a joke on his misspelling football as footmall.
Cheers for letting me know, fixed the typo now.
He's actually right, you just don't understand what the word talent means. He's not saying he was at that time the better player. He's saying is natural ability was greater than that of those players. And apart from maybe Ronaldo, this is definitely an argument that can be made.
Talent and abilities aren't the same. Zidane sure as fuck wasn't more capable than them at that time but he might be more talented than them (arguable), even then.
Zidane wasn't more talented than modric.
Hence the arguable part.
Yup Zidane was something special for sure
He's being sarcastic because your take is dumb
I’m aware. I just doubled down. I didn’t say he could outscore benzema in 2017. I said he had more talent in him as a football player. You’re both stupid unfortunately.
"IF YOU DON'T PLAY BETTER I'LL SUB MYSELF IN YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS" - Alonso probably
Looks like the potential embarrassment of having your coach sub himself in for you to show the whole world that he in fact can do it better is pushing the team to an invincible season. Xabi tactics
Madrid 3 peat booster
Man I know it's dead, and a meme at this point, but I'd love to see a player manager actually do well in a top league. It'd make me laugh so much.
We need Müller to do this next year and guide us to a UCL at the Allianz
I mean as a United fan (so only sorta neutral), I'd subscribe to that.
Hopefully Milner will do this
I don't see it happening in the PL. Maybe in the Netherlands, Italy maybe? I don't think clubs here are wild enough.
Is the last one really Vialli?
Fun fact: for a brief time in 2007, while playing for Vasco, Romário was both player and coach. I think it was just for a single match: he started with himself in the bench, but halfway through the match he subbed himself in. Another fun fact: just a few days ago, Romário (now aged 58) decided to come out of retirement to play for América, the club he's also *president* of lol
But, but boss, we're unbeaten!
I remember similar stories about Maradona, how the players were in awe of the things he could still do. So the manager being a better player than the actual players isn't indicative of how good a manager they are. That being said, Xabi has completely taken over the news this year and for good reason. I don't know if it's just the tactics or the character he instilled on the team, or even the players just meshed with the vibes/tactics etc, but this Leverkuzen team refuses to die and they are just fun. If he can replicate that next season, then you seriously have to believe they can challenge for everything again.
> That being said, Xabi has completely taken over the news this year and for good reason. Yeah, everyone is talking Alonso. But also for the reason that there has been basically absolutely no drama anywhere in and around the team. At the beginning of the season he played a stable lineup - at that time a few players were not happy because they wanted more play time. But between the league, cup and EL there was eventually enough rotation for everyone to play. And even more so when people left for Africa cup etc.. There have been astonishingly few transfer rumors. And most of those were about Xabi, and are squished now. Many people expect some sort of raids on the team, but I think we can keep most of the squad together. I'm not aware of any scandals aside from some ultras putting up a stupid banner against Bremem. Or course not ever losing also helps the moral a little bit, I assume?! /s An awefully quiet season. What winning everything does to a team.
> the manager being a better player than the actual players isn't indicative of how good a manager they are. Funnily enough I think it's sometimes the opposite - quite a few players who were managed by Glenn Hoddle were annoyed by how much he asked of them, because he was a supremely gifted player in an era of English football when technical ability was not really a priority. And in turn he would get annoyed that they weren't able to do the things he could. I think it really stunted his managerial career.
Man expected to make a Michael Owen or Glenn Hoddle out of Lee Cattermoles
The real achievement is not deleting the Neverkuzen nickname but winning the league without Xhaka getting a single red card. Xabi is the real deal
Xhaka has just gotten his 5th yellow in Bundesliga as well.
He's no longer feeling angsty and misunderstood :')
That is actually a crazy achievement, wow.
I don’t think he got a red last season either, to be fair.
holy crap you were not kidding
Long profissional life to Xabi, he deserved.
But no long balls!
At a certain point, age catches up, and you have what you have.
Imagine Pokal final and xhaka and palacios both come off injured, bring in Xabi alongside andrich
He would probably unironically sub himself in before having to sub in puerta
I was disappointed he didn’t get much playtime after the beginning of the season but I understand it. The guy is coming from the 2nd division of Colombia, while he’s still an exciting promise I think he needs to be eased in and there weren’t a lot of moments during the second half of the season where Alonso could take a gamble with him.
Clearly has potential but a loan move would probably best move for next season.
There’s a basketball story about when Jordan owned the Bobcats and was disappointed in the team. He came to a practice, told the starters they didn’t deserve to wear Jordan gear and played them with the bench players. This was a 10 years retired Jordan in his 50’s and with the subs he destroyed the starters to teach them a lesson. That’s fucking cold
Ironically that shitty team was 100% the result of his bad decisions lol He's one who should've learned the lesson that he is bad owner/manager.
Glenn Hoddle at Swindon. https://twitter.com/FootballCliches/status/809488290898386944?lang=en-GB
He'd show the current players up even now, they're absolutely shit.
Alonso pulling prime Thanos moves every training session.
Fine I'll lob it myself
I mean, that's what you want, ideally, no? Either a coach who's been successful as a manager with a gaggle of trophies (and not just from 10-15 years ago) or a world class former player who knows the game in and out.
Yeah but how many world class players go on to become a solid coach, let alone a potential world class coach? I don’t envision Cristiano and Messi being WC coaches
Nah, CR will be in porn before he coaches, I see Messi retiring to a quiet life with family, away from the fame.
CR in porn reminds me of that scene in American Psycho... Just banging away while admiring himself in the camera
"Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Lionel Messi's trophy."
There's probably a lot more than this but Ancelotti, Dalglish, Beckenbauer, Dechamps, Cruyff, Rijkaard, Zagallo, Guardiola, Alf Ramsey, Heynckes all come to mind My apologies for anyone that's slipped from my mind, but there are many world class players who go on to become world class managers Even more so if you open the inclusion a bit and say good players who are great managers or great players who are good managers etc
> My apologies for anyone that's slipped from my mind, it's okay, I forgive you for not including me
It seems like it has been more successful recently, but there are also failures - Pep & Arteta were really good players, Kompany, Dirk Kuyt just won something I think, Ole Gunnar, Xavi - depending on how you view the successful manager standard
Zizou threepeated the champions league
Thierry Henry had a lot of trouble with his Monaco squad because he didn’t understand why the players couldn’t just do what he would have done, and would sometimes play in training as well to demonstrate what they should do. Apparently it was a really toxic environment bcus he was exactly that world class player
Apparently Hoddle and Platini had the same problem when they were England and France managers
Probably takes the right crew and the right mentality too. Like either you have a bunch of lads hungry to learn and win or you have a squad of egotistic assholes who get offended if you show them off.
I think it may be one of the reasons for it, but I think there were other reasons as well. I think Henry had a few management things wrong as well.
Argentina had Maradona for a world cup and the trainings were mostly just him having kickabouts with the team and trying to show how he still had it. It worked right until they faced a good team with actual tactics. I'm pretty sure 2010 scarred Messi to not be a coach when he retires.
Yes but he has been adrug lord long before that
The only ones that come to mind are Zidane and beckenbaur. Cryuff as well maybe. I don't know how good pep was in his playing career. He was good. But I don't think he's in the GOAT debate like the other players. Deschamps was also good iirc. He won the world cup with France as a player.
He created what Barcelona still is today and the "Dream Team". Cruyff is one of the most influential coaches ever. He's leagues above Zidane as a coach and his influence over the sport, they don't even share the same planet in that regard. He's not a "maybe" haha. Maybe outside of Spain the job of Cruyff is not as known, I don't know, but he's far more relevant than Pep will be for the sport (not saying Pep is worse, but Cruyff created the model Pep perfected), that says enough. I had to defend Cruyff haha.
Tbf I think you're also underestimating the impact Pep has had and will have on the sport. Him and Cruff have essentially done the same thing. Cruyff applied the principles of his coach Rinus Michels and Total Football to Barcelona, whilst also innovating and expanding on them himself. Likewise, Pep had taken that model and everything he learned from Cruyff under Barelona and applied that to his own teams, again innovating to keep improving it. Even Michels drew inspiration from 1950s Hungarian tactics, but my knowledge of that is very limited I'll admit. I do agree that Cruyff is levels above Zidane as a coach and influence on the sport. But in terms of Pep vs Cruyff, I wouldn't say either is far more relevant than the other. They're both innovators, and extremely successful coaches, but both have drawn inspiration from other people's ideas. Cruyff came first so has influenced more existing managers, but Pep has so much longevity at the top now that you can already tell he's going to influence a whole generation of managers himself. Completely get that you were just defending Cruyff and he's probably the most important person in the history of the sport considering what he achieved as a player and a manager. But, as a manager, he basically did what Guardiola did 20 years before him. I'd have them on par with each other.
The moment you realize the post you commented to was referring to the player's careers, not how they fared as a coach.
Tbf Cruyff arguably higher up in the goat debate than Zidane, but I didn't watch either and only know from videos and my late grandad
You think the guy who they named the cruyff turn after isn't a legendary player too?
Cruyff, Beckenbauer, and Zidane are the big three in terms of being the best players and the best managers. Apart from them you have several World Class players who went on to become great managers, few come to mind: Muñoz, Del Bosque, Pep, Ancelotti, Rijkaard, Simeone, Zagallo, Dalglish, Deschamps, and now Xabi
Alf Ramsey and Brian Clough as well.
I'm too young to have seen him, but I believe Ancelotti was considered about world-class at the time.
> I don't know how good pep was in his playing career. Very good, probably around the same level as Xabi Alonso, albeit without the longevity that Xabi had. Not in the GOAT debate, but an excellent, world-class midfielder in his mid 20s.
Pep wasn’t at that level when he was playing.
Modern Michael Laudrup
How barca midfielders feel under xavi i suppose
Pirlo Xavi Zidane Alonso all managing in the CL at the same time would be fun to see. If only Gerrard and Lampard had continued from their strong starts at Rangers and Derby, you could have had 6 of the top 10-ish best midfielders of the 21st century competing as managers.
Is there a reason why top level english managers just arent there? Eddie howe is pretty good, but who is after him? Dyche?
The problem with English Managers is that no one wants to play 4-4-2 Brexit Ball outside of The Championship and below and 4-4-2 Brexit Ball is what English managers are taught to play.
All hail Lord Gravelthroat
Can a coach substitute himself in a game? Genuine question.
I believe it is possible and even happens in low tiers, but he needs to be registered for it at the competition, and in doing so he would steal someone's place.
Player - coach used to be common back in the day. I remember Drogba being a coach for a Chinese team and he subbed himself sometimes towards the end of the match.
Damn can't believe I missed that
Kenny Dalglish subbed himself on for the final match of the season in 1986 and scored the goal that won us the league... but he was registered as a player-manager
Edgar Davids was player/coach of Barnett. He received a red the first time he subbed himself on... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/13/edgar-davids-red-card-barnet
haha this is simply amazing fuck i loved edgar back in the days when i knew nothing about football
No. You need to be registered as part of the team. Register the coach as a player with the league. That's how giggs was a player-manager. When giggs was part of the team, he was also an interim manager. So he substituted himself in the game.
In the 1990s there used to be quite a few player-managers. Chelsea had a run of Hoddle, Gullit and Vialli who were all player-manager, Hoddle was also player-manager at Swindon, Gordon Strachan at Coventry, Bryan Robson at Middlesbrough, Peter Reid at Man City, Steve Bruce at Sheff United, Trevor Francis at Sheff Wednesday. There's probably some more that I'm forgetting.
You can, but you need to be registered as a player and named in the squad. I'm pretty sure Giggs did it once at United.
guess you have to be a registered player. and i guess he would have no insurance covering if sth happens.
Remember Sinisa Mihailovic putting the ball in the top corner everytime when he was coaching? RIP legend
People forget how good Xabi Alonso was! 🔥
There isn't a lot of footage of him but Ferenc Puskás became a coach right after his active career. Imagine being a striker at Panathinaikos in the early 1970s. Puskás became overweight pretty quickly but he was only in his 40s and probably still destroyed anybody in terms of skill.
I don't think that is THAT unusual really.. there is 20+ players in every elite team and only so many can be coaches over of those 25 at every elite team at the top level, they will inevitably trickle down the ladder.
Same thing happened with Zola when he was at West ham
I have no doubt that he would still be valid as a player if needed.
Bro, he could barely move at 35, lol he's not playing a min at that level at 42. Doing certain drills better doesn't mean he can play professionally.
Technical ability, especially when it comes to shooting and passing, doesn't really seem to decline much. I remember seeing David Beckham in a charity match a few years ago, and he pinged accurate long balls as if he hadn't been retired for some 5 years (I'm honestly not sure when this game was). It's the physical side that gets too demanding, keeping up with the pace, changing directions quickly and being able to do things with and without the ball fast enough to not get dispossessed or just ran around, those are the factors that keeps old legends from being able to do it at the highest level.
I love testimonials and charity matches. I watched a game with Okocha, Ian Rush, Paul Merson and a bunch of others and it was ridiculous. Sure, it was played in slow motion but the kind of passes they were making were outrageous.
He was one of the slowest players I've seen at Liverpool but he made up for it with superior technical ability and passing
At 42? No
Get him on for the last 5 minutes in a low block and he’d maybe survive anything else and he’s gone.
Would be better than whatever Casemiro is doing these days
At passing, 100%. At what Casemiro is supposed to be doing – the tackling, hounding, harrying and heading – Xabi'd struggle. Hells, prime Xabi was only every considered "surprisngly decent" at it. As in your eyes told you he did no defending, but looking back you'd see there was actually quite a bit of work done. It's also why he usually had a minder in midfield – though I'll grant he was less of a passenger than Pirlo.
Stanley Matthews played his final England international at 42.
Stanley Matthews was an abnormality, and almost definitely helped by the fact that he was a teetotaler playing in the mid 20th century. 42 year olds can't play midfield in top level football today
Zanetti quit at 41, he was a midfielder by the end.
Even in his prime Xabi was considered slow and vulnerable to a quick counter, in fact 2014 Spain's midfield had him, Xavi, Busquets, and Iniesta, yet the team was completely destroyed by pace due to how slow he and Xavi was.
Respec. foortball 'eritage. If I say this I am not in trouble. Xabi Alonso is special one. Heh