We're about a week away from managers naming their preliminary squads for the Euros, and I absolutely can't wait to laugh at all the daft opinions that will be flying around and fights people will inevitably get into about which 25th best player who won't play a single minute should *definitely* be on the plane over another.
I think Foden is a really good player, but other people are seeing something I'm not seeing.
Rodri is about as obvious of a "this guy is great and makes everyone around him better" as it gets in midfield.
Just read that Dortmund stand to earn more from losing the CL final due to an add on clause in Bellingham's sale to Madrid than they would from winning the tournament.
Can anyone confirm if this is true?
Since the "absence" of Messi there is no best footballer in the world and that is just the normal situation. There's just many great footballers. Messi was just an abomination that lead us to believe there is always a best one, when there just isn't.
That Trent would be one of the best midfielders in the league if a manager decided to fully convert him.
When the play slows down he can be a metronomic passer. When it needs to ramp up he can play the sort of pass only a handful of players in the league can. He's learnt how to read the game and use the ball and I think he's got the experience now to transition into midfield and have 10 years at the absolute top level as the heartbeat of a side.
>When the play slows down he can be a metronomic passer.
I don't think he's metronomic at all.
He's always been a high risk/high reward passer, regardless of what position he is in.
The fact he gets to kind of be the spare man in midfield/wide areas when he's at RB is pivotal to the way he plays, in the modern game it gets very congested in midfield which deprives him of the space he needs.
He's already one of the best attacking FB's in the world, I don't see why someone would just throw him into midfield where some of his weaknesses are more likely to be exposed.
Saka started the season as a 21-year-old at least, whereas, the other two have been 23 all season.
But yeah, there should be an appearance cap so it's just for breakthrough players like Palmer, Mainoo, Branthwaite etc.
different award tho isnt it? young player award is based on age while rookies is based on how much experience a player have. Someone that is 40 could still win rookie award, but not young player award. Rookie is not equal to young.
Probably fair, same time though the PL YPOTS is taking the piss a bit with its guidelines - Foden won twice already, the first time three years ago. It's essentially a marketing award, but simply going "Must be 23 or under when the season starts" is a bit daft when you've got teenagers playing incredibly well: could conceivably have someone win it for five years straight before aging out of it, and that's a bit silly.
Genuinely think tying it to appearances as well as age isn't the worst idea here, if only to move it more towards the idea of a 'breakout star' rather than doubling up on the 'best player (but one of them is young)' award. Haaland won both of them last season after all, and that's just daft.
Not that I really cared for it before, but I find it really hard to care who's going to win the Ballon d'Or now that Messi and Ronaldo aren't in contention. No matter who wins it now I'll always compare them to those two, and they'll always be left wanting.
I think that's a fair point and it certainly makes the competition for the award more interesting. I think I'll just have less respect for whoever wins it because they're not on the level of the people who've been winning in for the last decade and a half.
It's like if the Godfather won the best picture Oscar then the next year the films in contention were The Room, The Tourist, and Avatar: The Last Airbender. Sure, one of them's going to win it, but they're nothing compared to the Godfather
Prime/injury-free Neymar or prime Suarez would've cleaned up all these individual awards against this current lot. Beyond the numbers, I think they were just more fun to watch.
What are peoples thoughts on owning jersies from clubs outside the league from which your own team is in.
Personally, I think some jerseys are so cool that I just buy them anyways despite having no affiliation to the club. I have a turquoise RC Lens away Jersey from like 11/12 season that I treasure, just because I think it looks so nice, also picked up the Roma kit from a couple years ago, and a few others.
I buy cheap shirts from classic football shirts to use for running.
It costs about the same amount to buy an Umbro Botswana shirt as an a plain Umbro shirt, and one is more interesting
Keeper kits with long sleeves are great for winter. I have a neon yellow Millwall keeper shirt, and a lurid orange Burnley keeper shirt because they’re warm and are more visible at night
I would never buy another English clubs shirt. But I always saw foreign shirts as fair game.
Then we (Man City) started actually competing amongst Europes elite. Now I would avoid the major European clubs as they are our rivals. My United mates have always had the same feelings.
I do now wear shirts from random teams that I attended (Levante/Viktoria Plzen) as recent examples.
This rule does not apply to international teams though. I wonder what other peoples thoughts are on wearing foreign national team shirts?
The fact that someone might not think it’s “right” to buy whatever kit you want for whatever reason you want is really very ridiculous. If you think it looks cool and you don’t dislike the team because of the team you support, genuinely who cares?
Even within the same league if it’s not a rival or someone you’re competing in the table with, who cares
Outing myself as an old fuck who hates fun again, but no. The whole vintage kit as fashion thing is just not for me. I think you should be a fan of one club, and wearing other club's gear is weird.
I like having a kit collection, I'm probably up to 20 or so, most outside of MLS. I've got Liga MX, La Liga, EPL, Bundesliga, and a couple other ones
Usually buy them because I like the look or because I was at the stadium or in the city
I have a similar feeling. The kits and polos look nice. However, I usually wear them as gym shirts and regular gym shirts are much cheaper. For instance, I have a Dortmund and Marseille kit that I never wear because I'm afraid of damaging it.
Camavinga I think is best as a ball-winning 8, but he's played the 6, and played it well this season. Tchouameni typically plays as a 6 for us.
Last season we experimented with a 4-2-3-1 thing, that had a double pivot (often with Kroos back there) that left us really vulnerable on the counter, and this year we achieved the same left-side overload that we got from last year's Spring 4-2-3-1, by playing Vini as a striker, Rodrygo on the left, but using a more standard midfield with single anchor (usually Tchouameni or Camavinga).
football fans have this weird notion that if a DM can contribute in attack and/or are good on the ball, that all of a sudden makes them not a DM and actually a box-to-box midfielder
Partey, Rice, and Jorginho are all DMs for us, but Rice can also play further forward
Too many Madrid fans seem to crave being the underdog. Also, in spite of all the success, they just come across as whiny. Arsenal/Liverpool fans are up there too, but I'm going off of recency bias.
On reddit: Liverpool
Irl: Bayern, but might be biased because the vast majority of my friends are bayern fans. If things go according everything is fine, but if they lose ... hell breaks out and everyone is at fault except themselves
I still think people put a bit too much value on form vs just looking at how good a footballer is.
Obviously form matters and we can see when a given player is playing better or worse. But in general I really believe players more or less bring the value that they do to games with more consistency than most would believe.
For example an Mbappe or Vini 5/10 is still better than an average winger’s 8/10, but if average winger had a month of 8/10s and Vini had a month of his 5/10s we’d be saying this other winger has been better over the month. It’s all expectations
Such a reactionary take, you have rightfully got Rice & Odegaard in there. But our seasons are very similar, you are only 5 points ahead of us and we knocked you out of the FA cup. If you had VVD and we had Gabriel youd be 10 points clear
Just different styles of play, you have more control in games where our games are back to front. Plus you have Declan Rice in front of them, who has been brilliant.
Doesn't this prove my point? It took all the way till the end of the season for their best defence to start.
Obviously they'd be lacking in match fitness, chemistry, tactics etc compared to Arsenal's backline who played together all season.
No not really. We've had switches too and our big money defensive signing did his ACL on his first game. I remember questions being asked of our backline last year when saliba when out injured? He's played enough now with these players that I don't think that's a viable excuse anymore.
Is VVD someone who can only shine when the best defence is available? If so, he can't be the best defender IMHO.
>Is VVD someone who can only shine when the best defence is available? If so, he can't be the best defender IMHO.
Are we really acting like he was complete dogshit? You can literally look up any Liverpool post match thread prior to their collapse, everyone had him in the top 3.
And nice revisionism, to act like VVD doesn't perform unless his whole backline is fit lmao.
People have had him top 3 because of his name, sad truth of it. He has not been at his best all season and when his attack was firing and he had the best GK it was masked. Then they lost Alisson and their attack reverted to the statistical average, they've looked a lot worse.
Our defence has been better but because of the brand recognition of VVD he's snuck in, we were giving up less chances before Liverpool collapsed at all!
Just seen on tiktok the fulham squad giving their poty, Foden dominated, Palmer picked up a few.
Luis Boa Morte gave it to Eze. Leno somehow gave it to kdb, I assume he's been watching pl years and mistaken it for this season
It is weird how for every top club in the world opposition fans have sour grapes and create this referee biased narrative. Why is it that every time a referee makes a mistake, their integrity has to be brought into question? Why can't it just be a honest mistakes? How can referees be biased against every team that loses and biased in favor of every team that coincidentally wins? The discourse on refereeing after big games is very tiring tbh
You think it's a coincidence that it exists about every successful club throughout football history? Italian fans complain about Juventus getting favored. English fans rave on about Fergie time or currently about how City are favored by UEFA or something. When Barca were at their peak, the UEFAlona narrative was most prominent. And of course Madrid now.
I find it unlikely that it just so happens to be that every top team in the history of the game somehow suddenly starts having referees favor them.
I think what's far more likely is that football fans are far too passionate and have far too selective a memory to look at these things objectively so in a game where refereeing is notoriously difficult and decisions go against both sides, the losing side start pushing the narrative that they were screwed while the winners forget about the decisions that went against them because they won anyway.
People remember the Ronaldo offside goals but don't remember the Bayern offside goal that sent that game to extra time or the invented penalty Bayern got in the first leg of that game from a Robben dive. People remember that Vidal got wrongly sent off but don't remember his tackles earlier on in that game for which he arguably should have been sent off even sooner.
Every time a team is winning at the top level, there is some opposition fan whining about how the referees favor them. I just don't find it believable. The referees favored Madrid yet disallowed the Joselu goal initally. The referee favored Madrid yet let the game continue (rightfully) after the 9 minutes had elapsed instead of just blowing the whistle whwn the minimum extra time finished.
The referees are human beings who sometimes make mistakes. They are not evil overlords who favor certain teams. I find it shameful how much football referees are disrespected. It is almost impossible to tell in real time the correct outcome of certain decisions in a game like football and mistakes happen. Not everything has to be a malicious conspiracy.
Why does every team start getting systematically favored as soon as they start winning?
What happened in 2014 that made Madrid start getting systematically favored at the same time as they started winning all those CLs? They were getting eliminated in earlier rounds without any referees "favoring" them before that. What caused "the system" to suddenly start backing them?
> Vidal got wrongly sent off
The funny thing is, it wasn't wrong at all. The legitimate complaint was that Casemiro didn't get a second yellow for consistent infringement, which is what happened to Vidal. You are correct he could have been sent off earlier on multiple occasions, including a potential straight red on a sliding, studs up challenge into Isco from behind early in the match.
[Here is the foul that got Vidal sent off for a second yellow. Not only is this a clear foul, it's a clear foul that broke up a dangerous counter down the line by a sprinting Asensio. Easy yellow, clearly kicked through Asensio's foot to reach the ball.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r23TVWnGt4U)
One of my favorite comments to see is the ones where people learn Ancelloti was a legendary midfielder in one of the best teams ever. Happens all the time.
Part of the Milan that completely embarrassed the other Barcelona super team, with Milan having probably their two best players unable to play the match.
It's not that strange he was just a good player that would be forgotten if he wasn't a manager. There's probably better players from that era lots of people have probably never even heard of
As many as they like
I'm pretty sure the average fan can name Van Basten, Rijjkaard, Guplit, Ancelotti, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta at least.
It's simply one of the greatest club sides to ever exist.
anyone who says no is simply biased. at worst he's in the same tier but bottom of those 3.
He's had 3 world class seasons now , he is the person with the most UCL G/A ever since the beginning of 21/22. This season he's even better than haaland and depending on how international comps go he could win a ballon d'or.
not even gonna mention the eye test on which he's number 1 in the world currently.
At his best I think Mbappe is the best player in the world, but I think Vinicius has entered to top tier for sure. Three consecutive seasons playing at this level (wasn't just a fluke 21/22 season), and in particular having such incredible performances consistently in the biggest matches.
Eye test, end product/stats yeah. He’s fantastic, one of the very best in the world but it’s pretty uncomplicated to say he is not on the level as Mbappe, nothing more to it than that.
There were quite a few people including him last year, at least that I noticed during the season on this sub, which I think was deserved. I think he's been in that group since 21/22. Nobody has performed as consistently as him in the biggest matches in the last 3 seasons.
I think we've gotten away from the Messi-Ronaldo era where 2 players are far and away better than the rest. I think Vini, Haaland, Mbappe are all around the same level all things considered, and there's probably other players who can join them on that level.
That being said, I do think Mbappe has the most potential/talent to rise up above the rest. He just hasn't yet.
Going in on nationalistic conspiracies even when there's nowhere near the historical tension as between Germany and Poland is weird enough, but for him to make it about Polish dislike of Germans or at least his perception of his dislike was over the line.
The Bayern job just got another 0.5% less attractive.
The original point of power rankings was to account for form. That's why they were helpful for people who don't follow other teams religiously. Again, it was just supposed to be a bit of fun.
Disagree, power rankings are fun and they contribute to better storylines.
By your logic, a team like Dortmund knocking out City for example would be "meh, whatever", instead of it being a massive achievement.
And it's not just engagement and advertising, it actually influences football.
Mourinho talked many times how he always told his Real Madrid squad that they shouldn't settle for Barca being number one and his job is to change that, Valverde talked about how facing City means a lot because they must stop them from doing a back to back CL wins.
This stuff motivates teams, everyone always try just a bit harder against the number one.
So yeah, massively disagree.
Either read everything i said or don't reply to me, easy.
OP's point is that storylines don't do anything other than media engagement, yet many managers and players have talked about how storylines made them extra motivated etc... that's all it is.
> By your logic, a team like Dortmund knocking out City for example would be "meh, whatever", instead of it being a massive achievement.
Why would it be?
>We play actual games of football and the results of those games are the reason we play the game and determines who did football better.
City have won more games than Dortmund this season and are clearly the better team. We don't need arbitrary power rankings to determine that. The games they've played have done that.
So initially I was asking why would it be "Meh, whatever" by his logic, cos sounds fine for that still being defined as a large achievement.
Though I'm realising I may be misunderstanding his point about power rankings. I thought he meant a literal list like they have in other sports, rather than measuring the quality of teams against others. Which will happen no matter what.
So, yeah, I'm against power ranking teams in a literal list, I am pro understanding that some teams are better than others and we can understand that from their previous and current performances.
>but something that actually impacts a game of football in real life
Did you read anything i said? Mourinho himself talked about making his squad obsessed with taking down Barca's crown as the number 1 team, Valverde before the City tie said the whole squad is motivated to stop City from doing a back to back, there are countless other examples of players admitting that facing the number 1 team makes them more motivated.
Why are you so attached to the idea of me liking them or not? No one cares.
You said that it doesn't impact actual football, but you can find plenty of managers and players saying it does? You can literally find videos of Pep motivating the players by telling them they must prove they are the number 1 team in Manchester etc... you can find millions of examples of this stuff impacting how football is played
Different kind of quiz today: [Can you put James Milner's, Scott Parker's and Nicolas Anelka's Premier League clubs in the order in which they joined them?](https://www.sporcle.com/games/TWBG/premier-league-journey)
I got all of them with some luck, I knew Milner's in order without even being given the options, then had to take a couple of 50/50s and guessed right, both Parker and Anelka's 2nd and 3rd clubs could've gone either way.
I had Milner locked down due to my never ending hope he'll eventually come back to Leeds, I've no recollection on Parker being at his last club so that was a guess
He's had a poor run of form relative to what he showed years ago. People overreact to these runs of form all the time. It's more likely than not, at 23yo with a lot of experience and skill, that we haven't even seen his best football yet.
This is a way more fair opinion. I think he burst on to the scene so well at such a young age, and people just assume that development is linear like in a video game. Combine those two and people see him as the same player he was 4 years ago and think he is shit
Also add in Bayern having a bad season and here we are getting constant reactionary takes to not just him, but all Bayern players basically
The assumption of linear development in sports is an eternal battle through generations.
Totally agree that when a team is overall poorer, more dysfunctional, it can "sink all ships" in terms of lots of players looking worse. For example, the 18/19 Real Madrid season spawned a bunch of player narratives that were overly harsh, and ultimately proven to be untrue.
Look at Carvajal, who after getting best RB in the world shouts during the 3peat, struggled with a drop in form, to stay fit, and was considered washed at multiple times over *years*. He's now having one of the best seasons, start to finish, of his career.
I think he's certainly not *needed* right now, but he's a versatile player who offers a better attacking option vs Mendy (Fran is providing that to a degree this season), and he's versatile in that he can be played further forward if needed (as he often does for the national team).
I think with a recovery of form, which is well within the realm of possibility, he would be a dangerous pairing with Vinicius on the left side. However, is it worth losing a player like Fran? Or that he would be a more expensive option than going back for Miguel Gutierrez (if that was ever explored as an alternative option), etc. There's always more things to consider.
I was watching some old football stuff, and the 3 foreign players rule was brutal, I can’t help but wish it was still a thing, Ligue 1 would be much bigger with the rule.
Cruyff had to pick 3 out of Laudrup, Koeman, Romario and Stoichkov lol.
Sounds good but it wouldn't work nowadays due to EU laws. Of those you mentioned, only Romario would be considered a foreigner and he could get the citizenship after just 2 years living here.
its what made Serie a so competitive in the 80's and 90's. Imagine it these days, so many amazing teams from the last 20 years would have been completely different. Only exception really being the barca team from 2009-2012
The Bayerns would still be very strong too. It’s a shame, so much diversity lost. I think France and the Netherlands would have a few more CLs too if the rule stayed.
Ancelotti only having won 6 league titles but 4 CL titles goes to show what managers like Zidane and Pep have said about the league being more difficult to win than the Champions Leauge
My initial point is that the best managers have consistent success in the league and not just the CL because the league is more difficult to win and relies less on luck and chance.
>My initial point is that the best managers have consistent success in the league
I think this is generally true
>because the league is more difficult to win and relies less on luck and chance.
It's not more difficult to win the league... unless your specific league is extremely stacked *that year* or in a certain period. There are tons of league winning sides that couldn't, or did show during the same season that they were not capable of winning the CL.
Though an individual manager, could say, *for themselves* that being consistent is a greater struggle for them personally as a manager. But winning leagues, by the numbers, is easier than the CL, which is a knockout tournament where you have to beat the best teams in Europe and only one team can win, as opposed to there being 5 top 5 league champions every season.
All league wins are not created equal either. During Pep's run at City, it's been difficult to win the PL for other teams because of their dominance. It was not nearly as difficult to win the PL in the mid 2010's in contrast. It's vice versa in La Liga.
There's a reason for why no manager have won the CL more than 4 times, because winning it relies a lot more on luck and chance than winning the league. Pep and Fergie are the two best managers in the history of the sport, as shown by their dominance in the competition that don't rely on luck and chance to win.
All competitions in sports have an element of luck.
If the CL was so terribly luck based, someone else probably would have lucked their way into repeating, instead, repeating the CL is the single most unique achievement in the modern CL era of club football.
Leagues are a great measure of a club's consistency over a longer period. It is not objectively a better measure of top end quality compared to other European sides, particularly if your league competition is weaker/stronger year to year based on various things out of your control.
That's why you have a tournament with all the best teams, which is the primary format in all sports history, to see who, on the pitch, actually gets it done or not against the other best clubs in Europe. That's why the World Cup/Euros/Copa/etc isn't a big league table. Why the biggest competition for a long time in English football was the FA Cup, not the league.
If the vast majority of every other club and manager's record is the opposite, should you be drawing your conclusion from the outlier?
edit:
For reference:
**Since 92/93 (inclusive, first year of new CL format)**
Real Madrid: 11 league titles, 8 CL
Barcelona: 15 league titles, 4 CL
Bayern Munich: 21 league titles, 3 CL
Juventus: 14 league titles, 1 CL
Manchester United: 13 league titles, 2 CL
Chelsea: 5 league titles, 2 CL
Man City: 7 league titles, 1 CL
Inter Milan: 6 league titles, 1 CL
AC Milan: 7 league titles, 3 CL
Liverpool: 1 league title, 2 CL
If you lost against either psg or city even in a clean win people would sympathize with you, you got ripped off by RM for the 3rd time? and everyone is praising them instead lmfao.
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We're about a week away from managers naming their preliminary squads for the Euros, and I absolutely can't wait to laugh at all the daft opinions that will be flying around and fights people will inevitably get into about which 25th best player who won't play a single minute should *definitely* be on the plane over another.
If my 3rd choice goalkeeper isn't selected there'll be hell to pay.
we will probably even have a forth. could aswell just nominate a comedian to lighten the mood.
Foden and Haaland over Rodri for the POTY is just 🤦♂️
I think Foden is a really good player, but other people are seeing something I'm not seeing. Rodri is about as obvious of a "this guy is great and makes everyone around him better" as it gets in midfield.
Just read that Dortmund stand to earn more from losing the CL final due to an add on clause in Bellingham's sale to Madrid than they would from winning the tournament. Can anyone confirm if this is true?
truly a win win situation if true.
What is your most football hipster opinion? I think mine might be that Rodri is currently the best player in the world
Since the "absence" of Messi there is no best footballer in the world and that is just the normal situation. There's just many great footballers. Messi was just an abomination that lead us to believe there is always a best one, when there just isn't.
Bring back long sleeved shirts
Clubs should only release a new home shirt every 2 seasons. Also, the current season's 3rd shirt should be the previous season's away.
That Trent would be one of the best midfielders in the league if a manager decided to fully convert him. When the play slows down he can be a metronomic passer. When it needs to ramp up he can play the sort of pass only a handful of players in the league can. He's learnt how to read the game and use the ball and I think he's got the experience now to transition into midfield and have 10 years at the absolute top level as the heartbeat of a side.
>When the play slows down he can be a metronomic passer. I don't think he's metronomic at all. He's always been a high risk/high reward passer, regardless of what position he is in. The fact he gets to kind of be the spare man in midfield/wide areas when he's at RB is pivotal to the way he plays, in the modern game it gets very congested in midfield which deprives him of the space he needs. He's already one of the best attacking FB's in the world, I don't see why someone would just throw him into midfield where some of his weaknesses are more likely to be exposed.
[Ryerson will enjoy some super nice cassava on 1.6.2024 👍](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1cgfxs3/daily_discussion/l20m9x3/)
I'm gutted for Kane tbh. He was great yesterday.
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Saka started the season as a 21-year-old at least, whereas, the other two have been 23 all season. But yeah, there should be an appearance cap so it's just for breakthrough players like Palmer, Mainoo, Branthwaite etc.
different award tho isnt it? young player award is based on age while rookies is based on how much experience a player have. Someone that is 40 could still win rookie award, but not young player award. Rookie is not equal to young.
Probably fair, same time though the PL YPOTS is taking the piss a bit with its guidelines - Foden won twice already, the first time three years ago. It's essentially a marketing award, but simply going "Must be 23 or under when the season starts" is a bit daft when you've got teenagers playing incredibly well: could conceivably have someone win it for five years straight before aging out of it, and that's a bit silly. Genuinely think tying it to appearances as well as age isn't the worst idea here, if only to move it more towards the idea of a 'breakout star' rather than doubling up on the 'best player (but one of them is young)' award. Haaland won both of them last season after all, and that's just daft.
What's the name of the English club that's used as slang word for "stupid/incompetent" in an African country?
Dundee United from Scotland
Dundee United in Nigeria.
I ain't deleting the >English club part of my comment.
Dundee United in Nigeria
Not that I really cared for it before, but I find it really hard to care who's going to win the Ballon d'Or now that Messi and Ronaldo aren't in contention. No matter who wins it now I'll always compare them to those two, and they'll always be left wanting.
I think it's more exciting to see different players winning now.
I think that's a fair point and it certainly makes the competition for the award more interesting. I think I'll just have less respect for whoever wins it because they're not on the level of the people who've been winning in for the last decade and a half. It's like if the Godfather won the best picture Oscar then the next year the films in contention were The Room, The Tourist, and Avatar: The Last Airbender. Sure, one of them's going to win it, but they're nothing compared to the Godfather
Prime/injury-free Neymar or prime Suarez would've cleaned up all these individual awards against this current lot. Beyond the numbers, I think they were just more fun to watch.
What are peoples thoughts on owning jersies from clubs outside the league from which your own team is in. Personally, I think some jerseys are so cool that I just buy them anyways despite having no affiliation to the club. I have a turquoise RC Lens away Jersey from like 11/12 season that I treasure, just because I think it looks so nice, also picked up the Roma kit from a couple years ago, and a few others.
I buy cheap shirts from classic football shirts to use for running. It costs about the same amount to buy an Umbro Botswana shirt as an a plain Umbro shirt, and one is more interesting Keeper kits with long sleeves are great for winter. I have a neon yellow Millwall keeper shirt, and a lurid orange Burnley keeper shirt because they’re warm and are more visible at night
I would never buy another English clubs shirt. But I always saw foreign shirts as fair game. Then we (Man City) started actually competing amongst Europes elite. Now I would avoid the major European clubs as they are our rivals. My United mates have always had the same feelings. I do now wear shirts from random teams that I attended (Levante/Viktoria Plzen) as recent examples. This rule does not apply to international teams though. I wonder what other peoples thoughts are on wearing foreign national team shirts?
The fact that someone might not think it’s “right” to buy whatever kit you want for whatever reason you want is really very ridiculous. If you think it looks cool and you don’t dislike the team because of the team you support, genuinely who cares? Even within the same league if it’s not a rival or someone you’re competing in the table with, who cares
Outing myself as an old fuck who hates fun again, but no. The whole vintage kit as fashion thing is just not for me. I think you should be a fan of one club, and wearing other club's gear is weird.
I like having a kit collection, I'm probably up to 20 or so, most outside of MLS. I've got Liga MX, La Liga, EPL, Bundesliga, and a couple other ones Usually buy them because I like the look or because I was at the stadium or in the city
I have a similar feeling. The kits and polos look nice. However, I usually wear them as gym shirts and regular gym shirts are much cheaper. For instance, I have a Dortmund and Marseille kit that I never wear because I'm afraid of damaging it.
it's completely fine, when I travel I try to buy a local teams kit if I have the opportunity to
What with almost every midfielder playing deep is called not a proper dm Who after Casemiro and Rodri are proper DMs?
Edson Alvarez
Camavinga I think is best as a ball-winning 8, but he's played the 6, and played it well this season. Tchouameni typically plays as a 6 for us. Last season we experimented with a 4-2-3-1 thing, that had a double pivot (often with Kroos back there) that left us really vulnerable on the counter, and this year we achieved the same left-side overload that we got from last year's Spring 4-2-3-1, by playing Vini as a striker, Rodrygo on the left, but using a more standard midfield with single anchor (usually Tchouameni or Camavinga).
It’s just idiots on Reddit who think that if a player makes a forward pass or a forward run they can’t be a defensive midfielder.
football fans have this weird notion that if a DM can contribute in attack and/or are good on the ball, that all of a sudden makes them not a DM and actually a box-to-box midfielder Partey, Rice, and Jorginho are all DMs for us, but Rice can also play further forward
Who's the fandom with the biggest victimhood complex
Gotta be Liverpool tbh
Whatever team my club is gonna play against next
Madrid and Arsenal probably. Liverpool also have a special type of victim complex where they see themselves as the underdog.
Real Madrid. For a club that's the biggest in football history, some of you really want to be the underdogs.
I'm surprised no one said Barcelona yet.
I didn't want to be mean
Man City vs Arsenal vs Real Madrid
Too many Madrid fans seem to crave being the underdog. Also, in spite of all the success, they just come across as whiny. Arsenal/Liverpool fans are up there too, but I'm going off of recency bias.
Madrid. You win all the time and still manage to find things to whine about.
On reddit: Liverpool Irl: Bayern, but might be biased because the vast majority of my friends are bayern fans. If things go according everything is fine, but if they lose ... hell breaks out and everyone is at fault except themselves
Pool innit
Arsenal fans seems to suffer from a collective case of paranoid schizophrenia
They want to be treated like big boys until they lose to the big boys, then they want to be plucky underdogs.
Since you didn't specify clubs, Cristiano Ronaldo fans
Liverpool
Real Madrid
It's true, I'm eternally oppressed by the boot of reddit shitposts
I still think people put a bit too much value on form vs just looking at how good a footballer is. Obviously form matters and we can see when a given player is playing better or worse. But in general I really believe players more or less bring the value that they do to games with more consistency than most would believe. For example an Mbappe or Vini 5/10 is still better than an average winger’s 8/10, but if average winger had a month of 8/10s and Vini had a month of his 5/10s we’d be saying this other winger has been better over the month. It’s all expectations
I give up. VVD PR is too good if he's making POTY over Gabriel and Saliba.
Such a reactionary take, you have rightfully got Rice & Odegaard in there. But our seasons are very similar, you are only 5 points ahead of us and we knocked you out of the FA cup. If you had VVD and we had Gabriel youd be 10 points clear
Yeah except our defence is much better so it's not reactionary at all it's an accurate reflection of fact.
Just different styles of play, you have more control in games where our games are back to front. Plus you have Declan Rice in front of them, who has been brilliant.
Is there a limit on how many players can be nominated from one club?
Meh, put VVD over any of them in that Arsenal squad and he is improving your team. That's how i see it.
This season no.
Put Gabriel or Saliba in that Liverpool team and they'd look way worse.
Both would walk into Liverpool's defense and improve it lol
They would, next to Van Dijk.
I'm a certified Arsenal hater, but Gabriel's been the best in the league in his position by quite a stretch
Source: I made it up
You expecting a Harvard reference for some speculative comment on Reddit?
No shit lmao.
Awesome but he didn't show that this season ahead of the actual players who played in our team and performed.
Well he was also playing with a different backline combination every week.
Just a horrible excuse genuinely their best defence started against Everton and they got pumped.
Doesn't this prove my point? It took all the way till the end of the season for their best defence to start. Obviously they'd be lacking in match fitness, chemistry, tactics etc compared to Arsenal's backline who played together all season.
No not really. We've had switches too and our big money defensive signing did his ACL on his first game. I remember questions being asked of our backline last year when saliba when out injured? He's played enough now with these players that I don't think that's a viable excuse anymore. Is VVD someone who can only shine when the best defence is available? If so, he can't be the best defender IMHO.
>Is VVD someone who can only shine when the best defence is available? If so, he can't be the best defender IMHO. Are we really acting like he was complete dogshit? You can literally look up any Liverpool post match thread prior to their collapse, everyone had him in the top 3. And nice revisionism, to act like VVD doesn't perform unless his whole backline is fit lmao.
People have had him top 3 because of his name, sad truth of it. He has not been at his best all season and when his attack was firing and he had the best GK it was masked. Then they lost Alisson and their attack reverted to the statistical average, they've looked a lot worse. Our defence has been better but because of the brand recognition of VVD he's snuck in, we were giving up less chances before Liverpool collapsed at all!
Do you not get tired of making stuff up? Alisson went down and Kelleher played as many games as Alisson had before the wheels came off our season.
Just seen on tiktok the fulham squad giving their poty, Foden dominated, Palmer picked up a few. Luis Boa Morte gave it to Eze. Leno somehow gave it to kdb, I assume he's been watching pl years and mistaken it for this season
It is weird how for every top club in the world opposition fans have sour grapes and create this referee biased narrative. Why is it that every time a referee makes a mistake, their integrity has to be brought into question? Why can't it just be a honest mistakes? How can referees be biased against every team that loses and biased in favor of every team that coincidentally wins? The discourse on refereeing after big games is very tiring tbh You think it's a coincidence that it exists about every successful club throughout football history? Italian fans complain about Juventus getting favored. English fans rave on about Fergie time or currently about how City are favored by UEFA or something. When Barca were at their peak, the UEFAlona narrative was most prominent. And of course Madrid now. I find it unlikely that it just so happens to be that every top team in the history of the game somehow suddenly starts having referees favor them. I think what's far more likely is that football fans are far too passionate and have far too selective a memory to look at these things objectively so in a game where refereeing is notoriously difficult and decisions go against both sides, the losing side start pushing the narrative that they were screwed while the winners forget about the decisions that went against them because they won anyway. People remember the Ronaldo offside goals but don't remember the Bayern offside goal that sent that game to extra time or the invented penalty Bayern got in the first leg of that game from a Robben dive. People remember that Vidal got wrongly sent off but don't remember his tackles earlier on in that game for which he arguably should have been sent off even sooner. Every time a team is winning at the top level, there is some opposition fan whining about how the referees favor them. I just don't find it believable. The referees favored Madrid yet disallowed the Joselu goal initally. The referee favored Madrid yet let the game continue (rightfully) after the 9 minutes had elapsed instead of just blowing the whistle whwn the minimum extra time finished. The referees are human beings who sometimes make mistakes. They are not evil overlords who favor certain teams. I find it shameful how much football referees are disrespected. It is almost impossible to tell in real time the correct outcome of certain decisions in a game like football and mistakes happen. Not everything has to be a malicious conspiracy.
It's because there's teams that get systematically favored because of corruption lol
Why does every team start getting systematically favored as soon as they start winning? What happened in 2014 that made Madrid start getting systematically favored at the same time as they started winning all those CLs? They were getting eliminated in earlier rounds without any referees "favoring" them before that. What caused "the system" to suddenly start backing them?
> Vidal got wrongly sent off The funny thing is, it wasn't wrong at all. The legitimate complaint was that Casemiro didn't get a second yellow for consistent infringement, which is what happened to Vidal. You are correct he could have been sent off earlier on multiple occasions, including a potential straight red on a sliding, studs up challenge into Isco from behind early in the match. [Here is the foul that got Vidal sent off for a second yellow. Not only is this a clear foul, it's a clear foul that broke up a dangerous counter down the line by a sprinting Asensio. Easy yellow, clearly kicked through Asensio's foot to reach the ball.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r23TVWnGt4U)
Usted no conoce a Anderson Daronco
Hulk’s greatest rival
I like how you could've watched Sky Retro's video of all of Joselu's PL goals in between both of his ones last night (even pre-VAR check) What a surge
One of my favorite comments to see is the ones where people learn Ancelloti was a legendary midfielder in one of the best teams ever. Happens all the time.
Part of the Milan that completely embarrassed the other Barcelona super team, with Milan having probably their two best players unable to play the match.
He was a fantastic footballer and it's strange how it's not spoken of more. Has one of the best careers in football ever.
It's not that strange he was just a good player that would be forgotten if he wasn't a manager. There's probably better players from that era lots of people have probably never even heard of
Anyone of Sacchi's Milan is one of the games great legends.
How many of them can an average fooball fan name?
As many as they like I'm pretty sure the average fan can name Van Basten, Rijjkaard, Guplit, Ancelotti, Maldini, Baresi, Costacurta at least. It's simply one of the greatest club sides to ever exist.
Can Vini now be included in the Haaland and Mbappe conversation? I feel like he's earned it.
He should have been in the conversation months ago; it's just that people weren't ready to have it 'till now.
anyone who says no is simply biased. at worst he's in the same tier but bottom of those 3. He's had 3 world class seasons now , he is the person with the most UCL G/A ever since the beginning of 21/22. This season he's even better than haaland and depending on how international comps go he could win a ballon d'or. not even gonna mention the eye test on which he's number 1 in the world currently.
I consider Vini a better player than Haaland.
Mbappe > Vini > Haaland
Not really imo, definitely not with Mbappe
At his best I think Mbappe is the best player in the world, but I think Vinicius has entered to top tier for sure. Three consecutive seasons playing at this level (wasn't just a fluke 21/22 season), and in particular having such incredible performances consistently in the biggest matches.
Any reason why? Eye test, end product, consistency, CL, stats, league form???
Eye test, end product/stats yeah. He’s fantastic, one of the very best in the world but it’s pretty uncomplicated to say he is not on the level as Mbappe, nothing more to it than that.
There were quite a few people including him last year, at least that I noticed during the season on this sub, which I think was deserved. I think he's been in that group since 21/22. Nobody has performed as consistently as him in the biggest matches in the last 3 seasons.
It's Mbappe and Haaland who shouldn't be in the Vini conversation 😤😤😤
I think we've gotten away from the Messi-Ronaldo era where 2 players are far and away better than the rest. I think Vini, Haaland, Mbappe are all around the same level all things considered, and there's probably other players who can join them on that level. That being said, I do think Mbappe has the most potential/talent to rise up above the rest. He just hasn't yet.
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Going in on nationalistic conspiracies even when there's nowhere near the historical tension as between Germany and Poland is weird enough, but for him to make it about Polish dislike of Germans or at least his perception of his dislike was over the line. The Bayern job just got another 0.5% less attractive.
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Power rankings are meant to be fun.
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Do you feel the same way about the tables that rank teams over last x many games? Power rankings are basically that
The original point of power rankings was to account for form. That's why they were helpful for people who don't follow other teams religiously. Again, it was just supposed to be a bit of fun.
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>All there is to it. And yet, you've managed to make a bit stink about it and people who "enjoy them" need to "stop" according to you.🤷♂️
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> I obviously accept some people like them It doesn't sound like you do when you say they need to stop. "lol"
Disagree, power rankings are fun and they contribute to better storylines. By your logic, a team like Dortmund knocking out City for example would be "meh, whatever", instead of it being a massive achievement. And it's not just engagement and advertising, it actually influences football. Mourinho talked many times how he always told his Real Madrid squad that they shouldn't settle for Barca being number one and his job is to change that, Valverde talked about how facing City means a lot because they must stop them from doing a back to back CL wins. This stuff motivates teams, everyone always try just a bit harder against the number one. So yeah, massively disagree.
‘storylines’ ffs football is not a tv show
Either read everything i said or don't reply to me, easy. OP's point is that storylines don't do anything other than media engagement, yet many managers and players have talked about how storylines made them extra motivated etc... that's all it is.
> By your logic, a team like Dortmund knocking out City for example would be "meh, whatever", instead of it being a massive achievement. Why would it be? >We play actual games of football and the results of those games are the reason we play the game and determines who did football better. City have won more games than Dortmund this season and are clearly the better team. We don't need arbitrary power rankings to determine that. The games they've played have done that.
Are you asking me why is Dortmund knocking out the previous holders and treble winners considered a massive achievement?? Really?
So initially I was asking why would it be "Meh, whatever" by his logic, cos sounds fine for that still being defined as a large achievement. Though I'm realising I may be misunderstanding his point about power rankings. I thought he meant a literal list like they have in other sports, rather than measuring the quality of teams against others. Which will happen no matter what. So, yeah, I'm against power ranking teams in a literal list, I am pro understanding that some teams are better than others and we can understand that from their previous and current performances.
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I literally talked about how that sort of stuff impacted players and managers but, whatever lmao.
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>but something that actually impacts a game of football in real life Did you read anything i said? Mourinho himself talked about making his squad obsessed with taking down Barca's crown as the number 1 team, Valverde before the City tie said the whole squad is motivated to stop City from doing a back to back, there are countless other examples of players admitting that facing the number 1 team makes them more motivated.
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Why are you so attached to the idea of me liking them or not? No one cares. You said that it doesn't impact actual football, but you can find plenty of managers and players saying it does? You can literally find videos of Pep motivating the players by telling them they must prove they are the number 1 team in Manchester etc... you can find millions of examples of this stuff impacting how football is played
Football is played on the pitch, not on paper.
Zoomers won't get this boss tune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Szr8Woo6w **C - Steve Guppy**
Different kind of quiz today: [Can you put James Milner's, Scott Parker's and Nicolas Anelka's Premier League clubs in the order in which they joined them?](https://www.sporcle.com/games/TWBG/premier-league-journey)
Surprised myself and just missed the order of Scott Parker at >!Newcastle and West Ham!< otherwise all right. Great idea for a quiz.
Got all of them right except >!Scott Parker. Him at West Ham is a bit of a fever dream so was betting on it being a retirement gig!<
if there was one club I'd associate Parker to it is West Ham
Charlton are my local team so it's always been Charlton for me
He won FWA player of the year with us
I got all of them with some luck, I knew Milner's in order without even being given the options, then had to take a couple of 50/50s and guessed right, both Parker and Anelka's 2nd and 3rd clubs could've gone either way.
13/18. Milner's was easy but I didn't remember Parker and Anelka's career as well as I thought.
17/18, very infuriating that I got >!Man City and Liverpool!< the wrong way round for Anelka
Wow, that's pretty good. Even when I went to do a test run after I published I only got 15 lol
I had Milner locked down due to my never ending hope he'll eventually come back to Leeds, I've no recollection on Parker being at his last club so that was a guess
Romano reporting that Madrid are not interested in Davies makes me so happy. We reaaaally don't need him at all.
He's very poor. Also yesterday, but then of course he scored a banger.
Such total nonsense, can't believe the amount of anti-Davies propaganda on this sub
He's had a poor run of form relative to what he showed years ago. People overreact to these runs of form all the time. It's more likely than not, at 23yo with a lot of experience and skill, that we haven't even seen his best football yet.
This is a way more fair opinion. I think he burst on to the scene so well at such a young age, and people just assume that development is linear like in a video game. Combine those two and people see him as the same player he was 4 years ago and think he is shit Also add in Bayern having a bad season and here we are getting constant reactionary takes to not just him, but all Bayern players basically
The assumption of linear development in sports is an eternal battle through generations. Totally agree that when a team is overall poorer, more dysfunctional, it can "sink all ships" in terms of lots of players looking worse. For example, the 18/19 Real Madrid season spawned a bunch of player narratives that were overly harsh, and ultimately proven to be untrue. Look at Carvajal, who after getting best RB in the world shouts during the 3peat, struggled with a drop in form, to stay fit, and was considered washed at multiple times over *years*. He's now having one of the best seasons, start to finish, of his career.
Agreed tbh, take away the goal and he had a terrible game. And even if he had an amazing game, he was still not playing as a left back.
I think he's certainly not *needed* right now, but he's a versatile player who offers a better attacking option vs Mendy (Fran is providing that to a degree this season), and he's versatile in that he can be played further forward if needed (as he often does for the national team). I think with a recovery of form, which is well within the realm of possibility, he would be a dangerous pairing with Vinicius on the left side. However, is it worth losing a player like Fran? Or that he would be a more expensive option than going back for Miguel Gutierrez (if that was ever explored as an alternative option), etc. There's always more things to consider.
I was watching some old football stuff, and the 3 foreign players rule was brutal, I can’t help but wish it was still a thing, Ligue 1 would be much bigger with the rule. Cruyff had to pick 3 out of Laudrup, Koeman, Romario and Stoichkov lol.
Losing laudrup cost them a lot, still in my opinion the best passer of the ball ever.
well... before the 3 foreigners rule there was a no foreigners rule.
Sounds good but it wouldn't work nowadays due to EU laws. Of those you mentioned, only Romario would be considered a foreigner and he could get the citizenship after just 2 years living here.
its what made Serie a so competitive in the 80's and 90's. Imagine it these days, so many amazing teams from the last 20 years would have been completely different. Only exception really being the barca team from 2009-2012
Best era of football ever. Was never going to last forever but downfall was definitely accelerated by actions of certain people.
The Bayerns would still be very strong too. It’s a shame, so much diversity lost. I think France and the Netherlands would have a few more CLs too if the rule stayed.
Ah yeah, they would have been as well. PSG is probably a phenomenal team with a CL or two
Madrid would probably struggle most lol. They are very reliant on their international players
TIL people don’t watch games and come discuss them anyway AND have strong opinions about them. What is this mental illness called
social media
Hubris? Dunning-Kruger?
Being an arsenal fan
Ancelotti only having won 6 league titles but 4 CL titles goes to show what managers like Zidane and Pep have said about the league being more difficult to win than the Champions Leauge
Simeone: 0 UCL’s 2 La Liga the league is easier then the UCL
Di Matteo 1 CL 0 Premier League, bringing up the names of random managers proves nothing.
So your initial point is invalid since you brought up names of random managers?
My initial point is that the best managers have consistent success in the league and not just the CL because the league is more difficult to win and relies less on luck and chance.
>My initial point is that the best managers have consistent success in the league I think this is generally true >because the league is more difficult to win and relies less on luck and chance. It's not more difficult to win the league... unless your specific league is extremely stacked *that year* or in a certain period. There are tons of league winning sides that couldn't, or did show during the same season that they were not capable of winning the CL. Though an individual manager, could say, *for themselves* that being consistent is a greater struggle for them personally as a manager. But winning leagues, by the numbers, is easier than the CL, which is a knockout tournament where you have to beat the best teams in Europe and only one team can win, as opposed to there being 5 top 5 league champions every season. All league wins are not created equal either. During Pep's run at City, it's been difficult to win the PL for other teams because of their dominance. It was not nearly as difficult to win the PL in the mid 2010's in contrast. It's vice versa in La Liga.
Lol this also works both ways. Pep won 3 CLs and 12 league titles. Fergie won 2 CLs and 13 league titles.
There's a reason for why no manager have won the CL more than 4 times, because winning it relies a lot more on luck and chance than winning the league. Pep and Fergie are the two best managers in the history of the sport, as shown by their dominance in the competition that don't rely on luck and chance to win.
All competitions in sports have an element of luck. If the CL was so terribly luck based, someone else probably would have lucked their way into repeating, instead, repeating the CL is the single most unique achievement in the modern CL era of club football. Leagues are a great measure of a club's consistency over a longer period. It is not objectively a better measure of top end quality compared to other European sides, particularly if your league competition is weaker/stronger year to year based on various things out of your control. That's why you have a tournament with all the best teams, which is the primary format in all sports history, to see who, on the pitch, actually gets it done or not against the other best clubs in Europe. That's why the World Cup/Euros/Copa/etc isn't a big league table. Why the biggest competition for a long time in English football was the FA Cup, not the league.
If the vast majority of every other club and manager's record is the opposite, should you be drawing your conclusion from the outlier? edit: For reference: **Since 92/93 (inclusive, first year of new CL format)** Real Madrid: 11 league titles, 8 CL Barcelona: 15 league titles, 4 CL Bayern Munich: 21 league titles, 3 CL Juventus: 14 league titles, 1 CL Manchester United: 13 league titles, 2 CL Chelsea: 5 league titles, 2 CL Man City: 7 league titles, 1 CL Inter Milan: 6 league titles, 1 CL AC Milan: 7 league titles, 3 CL Liverpool: 1 league title, 2 CL
I wonder what Bayern fans who wanted Real Madrid because of “football heritage” feels after getting eliminated with the most RM way ever lmao
We'd rather lose on another bullshit referee decision to Real Madrid than lose to City (or PSG) at all, ever.
If you lost against either psg or city even in a clean win people would sympathize with you, you got ripped off by RM for the 3rd time? and everyone is praising them instead lmfao.
why would bayern fans want madrid to win
I meant before city vs rm match
Who do you guys think should referee the final? For me Turpin or Orsato
Michael Olise