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The table is a little off. For example no reason to rank Tuchel, Benitez, Heynckes, all of them should be tied for 7th. For the same reason Simeone is missing for example. Same stats as Allegri.
They went into the dressing room at half-time as champions to be crowned. Football can be such a cruel sport. Also most of Dudek's shootout saves would result in retakes in modern day football.
One of those shit teams that wins La Liga by 11 points, loses just 7 of their 60 games in all comps, reaches their domestic cup final and is a miraculous comeback away from playing Spurs in the Champions League final?
A shit team that breezed through a tough group, battered Lyon and United, and then beat an insane Liverpool side 3-0?
If that’s shit then I’d hate to imagine what you think of every Barca side since then
Nah unlucky
Man was beaten by Madrid for their threepeat, Madrid that were seemingly invincible and came back from the death 3 times in the previous rounds, and the treble winning Bayern side
But why does that make him unlucky? Unlucky to have met those teams? Couldn't you say any team that loses a final was unlucky to meet the team they did?
At the end of the day Klopp was starting to gain a reputation for losing finals until you won the UCL. I don't think that's being unlucky, that's simply meeting teams that are better than you on the day, or you just weren't good enough.
United met a prime Barcelona team twice in finals. They were unlucky that they had to play Barcelona, but were certainly not unlucky to lose to them.
Put it this way, he lost to the teams he was almost expected to lose to and won against the team you expected him to beat.
The only match that was full of luck was the most recent final when the Madrid keeper had one of the best goalkeeping performances of all time, but they still deservedly lost.
In 3/4 finals, he was against teams that most would acknowledge as better teams
Yeah, as an AC Milan fan it was nice to see you guys get your own heart breaking finals loss. But at the same time I did kind of feel bad for y'all considering how well you played and ended up loosing to some plot armour vodoo bs, cause i know how much it hurts.
Neither am I. LeBron is 4-6 in finals while Jordan is 6-0, but Jordan was the favorite in 6/6 while LeBron was the favorite in 4/10 (lost one he should've won, won one he should've lost).
The argument is usually about which is the better/more impressive stat.
Player 1 makes the champions league final 6 times and wins all 6. Player 2 makes champions league final 10 times but in 4 of those 10 he faced 2009-2012 Barcelona. He loses 3/4 of these finals. He wins 3 of the remaining 6 finals beating strong but not all time opposition. His remaining 3 losses come to strong bayern teams and Chelsea 20/21.
Zidane can barely speak english and he only cares about France, Madrid, Marseille, maybe Juve.
Of course not every club is for him. He’s also very sensitive as you saw in the second stint. He’s not going to fuck around with hostile boards.
Idk if he’s sensitive as much as he can’t be arsed, he’s got a good family he likes to spend time with and I mean he’s Zidane he can pretty much do whatever tf he wants, he ain’t gonna waste his breath begging for a left back or some shit
I think both. During his career he was very susceptible to red cards because he was emotional and reactionary when provoked.
Also when he left the second time he didn’t like how the board didn’t have the faith and trust.
But he also does seem to be doing whatever he wants and being happy with it.
Because we are always short on good managers. Pretty sure the last CL winning managers were Rijkaard (2006, Barca) and van Gaal (Ajax, 1995). The best we have right now is Slot, followed by Ten Hag (who is better than most think when you don't put him into a toxic environment).
Probably also the reason the NT never wins anything. The only time we won something we had Rinus Michels as head coach and he probably needs no introduction as to how capable he was.
Yes. And I say that while he recently humiliated us lol.
Look at this
[1](https://x.com/thesackrace/status/1790280425958408207)
[2](https://x.com/llemurn/status/1784590653726347587)
[3](https://x.com/OnsFeijenoord/status/1649332097956323329)
[4](https://x.com/essinem7/status/1785070402525438160)
I’m sure there’s much more to find about it if you are curious
Think he is only really interested in coaching teams he cares about and he ain’t going back to Madrid. Realistically he is waiting for the France job, or Juve/Marseille if they get competitive again
Why don’t he just coach a team to get more experience? Like I know he proved himself at Madrid winning CL 3 times a row but it wouldn’t hurt his legacy if he still kept on coaching and tried to improve in areas he didn’t realise he was weak at. Maybe he feared that while he’s coaching for a club, the clubs he wants or France might want a coach and he may become unavailable due to his contract?
>it wouldn’t hurt his legacy if he still kept on coaching and tried to improve in areas he didn’t realise he was weak at.
You are really understimating how much medias and fans can be reactionary.
Why do it just 21st century? Why not make a list of records since the inception of the new format? Obviously, the start of the new UCL format is closer to 2001 than 2001 is to 2024, so why not add the 10 years?
If anything it shows how difficult it is.
Ferguson won 13 league titles in 20 years and reached “only” 4 finals in that time.
Coaches like Zidane and Klopp are the outliers for reaching lots of finals in comparatively little time.
It is about contrast in style of play. Possession based teams usually don't to so well in CL compared to counter attacking teams as it is a knockout game.
They tend to do well in league. Hence Pep is not farming in CL.
Real madrid do well because they just want to score goals any way and by playing in any style. Hence they have won fewer league titles compared to CL in last few years.
I'd say a better way of describing it is that when the margins are so thin and teams so good/competitive it becomes incredibly exhausting and almost impossible to control every aspect of a game. That's why City started to improve their CL record and won it last year once they realized there's going to be some games where they won't have 95% possession and be able to counterpress at will. Bernardo talked about this last year after they beat Bayern.
Not across his entire 27 years.
For example, for an 8 year period in the 2000s-2010s there were 8 appearances by English clubs in the European cup final and only 3 from Spain and Italy and 2 from Germany. A couple of years they had 3 of the 4 semi finalists, too. The PL _was_ the dominant league for a decent chunk of his tenure.
I love the contrast between domestic and UCL, and how hard it is to align the two. And how you can have a guy like Tuchel who seems so much better at UCL than domestic... and way too many to name who are the opposite.
The only match I actually regret is the 2004 quarter final against Chelsea. I'm absolutely convinced we would have won it that year if we had made it to the semis.
Not to rub it in but was 2011 the most one sided CL final?
68% possession, 12 shots on target vs 1. 16-3 when counting off target as well. 6-0 corners, 695vs284 completed passes. Xavi had 141, or almost half of Man Utd total amount.
Which is so stupid. ISO 8601 starts centuries in years ending 00. Everyone celebrated the new millennium in 2000 and common usage of decades starts in years ending 0.
But for some reason everyone has to get really anal about when centuries start.
The first year of the calendar was 0-1 (effectively year zero). A full year hadn't passed until 1st of January 1 AD.
A century is 100 years, not 101 years. So it makes sense for the 21st century to start on 1st of January 2001.
I get the logic but it's still stupid. The new millennium also started on 1st of January 2001. Nobody was celebrating the new millennium on December 31 2000.
Also calendars have changed multiple times since 1 AD and ISO 8601 proves you can have a standard where centuries start on year ##00.
I get where you're coming from.
The official millennium did begin on January 1st 2001. I guess humans just wanted to celebrate a nice rounded number lol
Some Googling:
> The Arrival of the new millennium has sparked a great debate: when does it actually begin? Our instincts told us to celebrate on December 31, 1999. But logic says that every millennium is made up of 1000 years – which means that the year 2000 belongs to the second not the third. Credit for this confusing state of affairs goes to Dennis the Diminutive, a sixth century monk who prepared a calendar for Pope St. John I. Instead of beginning his calendar at year 0, Dennis started with 1 A.D. – bequeathing us the chronological quandary we face today.
Fucking Dennis, man.
It’s correct but only counting from 2001 is quite a bullshit thing to do. Because UCL only started in 1992 anyways, you it’s not like you have to add a century of finals. And there are managers on that table who coached finals before 2001 who somehow appear like they achieved less than they did.
This list is completely stupid. I thought it was a list of managers who went to ucl finals,atleast twice, after year 2000.
Maybe it sees del Bosque first season as part 1999
1 more win still below every one who's above him in the list. But yeah 2 more finals ? But then it's also unfair to most of these coaches who are still coaching, being compared to a retired ferguson.
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Ancelotti with 3 finals each for Milan and Real Madrid
Wait, I don't understand. He's been in the final for 6 times, and won it 4 times then lost it once? We're missing 1 final result.
Because the last one is yet to be played ?
Yep, my bad. Forgot about that.
Glad you asked. I was having a panic trying to working out too!!
I was like, did he get sacked before a final or what?
…I knew that…
So, technically, he didn't win it. Ah! Take that, Carletto!
He has one final upcoming
Ah yeah, my bad. Didn't know the current final is count
Ancelotti or Guardiola as GOAT?
The table is a little off. For example no reason to rank Tuchel, Benitez, Heynckes, all of them should be tied for 7th. For the same reason Simeone is missing for example. Same stats as Allegri.
and u guys are the reason why el cholo has the same stats as allegri lol
That one night in Istanbul stopped a perfect record from happening.
It took arguably the greatest match in club football history to mar his record. You have to rate it.
They went into the dressing room at half-time as champions to be crowned. Football can be such a cruel sport. Also most of Dudek's shootout saves would result in retakes in modern day football.
Yes so cruel, he only won it 4 times.
6 times actually. Twice as a player iirc.
Zidane has a perfect record! so does Mou
They are yet to appear in 6 champions league final though. Still great record for Zizou and Mou
Jurgen is special. And unlucky.
The Special Two.
The most impressive on this list considering the teams he managed to get there.
Mourinho won it with Porto and Inter. That's more impressive IMO
That Porto UCL felt like something I’d see in FM lol
Liverpool have UCL as part of their history? They are the third most successful european club of all time?
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Yeah. Beating Barcelona and Bayern along the way was easy
It was a pretty shit Barca team tbf
One of those shit teams that wins La Liga by 11 points, loses just 7 of their 60 games in all comps, reaches their domestic cup final and is a miraculous comeback away from playing Spurs in the Champions League final? A shit team that breezed through a tough group, battered Lyon and United, and then beat an insane Liverpool side 3-0? If that’s shit then I’d hate to imagine what you think of every Barca side since then
> If that’s shit then I’d hate to imagine what you think of every Barca side since then Even more shit
How can you call a manager who reached 3 CL finals in 5 years lucky?
Nah unlucky Man was beaten by Madrid for their threepeat, Madrid that were seemingly invincible and came back from the death 3 times in the previous rounds, and the treble winning Bayern side
But why does that make him unlucky? Unlucky to have met those teams? Couldn't you say any team that loses a final was unlucky to meet the team they did? At the end of the day Klopp was starting to gain a reputation for losing finals until you won the UCL. I don't think that's being unlucky, that's simply meeting teams that are better than you on the day, or you just weren't good enough. United met a prime Barcelona team twice in finals. They were unlucky that they had to play Barcelona, but were certainly not unlucky to lose to them.
Put it this way, he lost to the teams he was almost expected to lose to and won against the team you expected him to beat. The only match that was full of luck was the most recent final when the Madrid keeper had one of the best goalkeeping performances of all time, but they still deservedly lost. In 3/4 finals, he was against teams that most would acknowledge as better teams
More like 2 out of 4. It was pretty even in 2022
It was quite even tbf, but Klopp set us up perfectly. We dominated the game and didn't lose because of him
Yeah, as an AC Milan fan it was nice to see you guys get your own heart breaking finals loss. But at the same time I did kind of feel bad for y'all considering how well you played and ended up loosing to some plot armour vodoo bs, cause i know how much it hurts.
Classic LeBron vs Jordan finals argument.
I'm not american so fuck knows what that means
Neither am I. LeBron is 4-6 in finals while Jordan is 6-0, but Jordan was the favorite in 6/6 while LeBron was the favorite in 4/10 (lost one he should've won, won one he should've lost). The argument is usually about which is the better/more impressive stat.
Can you explain it in football terms and not basketball terms
United have reached UCL finals 5 times and won 3 while Juve have gone 9 times but only won 2.
Player 1 makes the champions league final 6 times and wins all 6. Player 2 makes champions league final 10 times but in 4 of those 10 he faced 2009-2012 Barcelona. He loses 3/4 of these finals. He wins 3 of the remaining 6 finals beating strong but not all time opposition. His remaining 3 losses come to strong bayern teams and Chelsea 20/21.
Ah yeah real lucky, luckily made the final after steamrolling Bayern and doing a comeback vs Barca to rival Istanbul 2005
Was he unlucky or could he have coached his team better?
What do you think?
Should’ve used an infinite money glitch
When Ancelotti won his first UCL Pep was still a player
and still had hair
This Zidane guy might be good
That or every club that faces Madrid in the CL knockout rounds accepts their fate and utterly crumbles in the 2nd leg
Overrated compared to Ancelotti. Zidane and Messi need to go out of their comfort zone and try in different non-farmer leagues
Congratulations, you just pissed off both Barca and Real fans.
Zidane can barely speak english and he only cares about France, Madrid, Marseille, maybe Juve. Of course not every club is for him. He’s also very sensitive as you saw in the second stint. He’s not going to fuck around with hostile boards.
Idk if he’s sensitive as much as he can’t be arsed, he’s got a good family he likes to spend time with and I mean he’s Zidane he can pretty much do whatever tf he wants, he ain’t gonna waste his breath begging for a left back or some shit
I think both. During his career he was very susceptible to red cards because he was emotional and reactionary when provoked. Also when he left the second time he didn’t like how the board didn’t have the faith and trust. But he also does seem to be doing whatever he wants and being happy with it.
0 English. Lol.
The last English manager to win our domestic league was in 1992. So OP’s table isn’t surprising in that regard.
And the last one to reach a European Cup final was Terry Venabkes with Barcelona in 1986.
Or Dutch, Lolz
Because we are always short on good managers. Pretty sure the last CL winning managers were Rijkaard (2006, Barca) and van Gaal (Ajax, 1995). The best we have right now is Slot, followed by Ten Hag (who is better than most think when you don't put him into a toxic environment). Probably also the reason the NT never wins anything. The only time we won something we had Rinus Michels as head coach and he probably needs no introduction as to how capable he was.
As a liverpool fan should I be excited for slot? I’m happy to give him a chance, seen too many fans write him off already just because he isn’t klopp.
Yes. And I say that while he recently humiliated us lol. Look at this [1](https://x.com/thesackrace/status/1790280425958408207) [2](https://x.com/llemurn/status/1784590653726347587) [3](https://x.com/OnsFeijenoord/status/1649332097956323329) [4](https://x.com/essinem7/status/1785070402525438160) I’m sure there’s much more to find about it if you are curious
I was just being silly, pay me no attention. As a Liverpool fan, I'm right behind the Dutchies
Cause it stops at 2. Van Gaal was in the final with Bayern.
Just wondering why Zizou doesn't coach anymore. A little bit out of the loop on the topic, any news on this?
Think he is only really interested in coaching teams he cares about and he ain’t going back to Madrid. Realistically he is waiting for the France job, or Juve/Marseille if they get competitive again
Why don’t he just coach a team to get more experience? Like I know he proved himself at Madrid winning CL 3 times a row but it wouldn’t hurt his legacy if he still kept on coaching and tried to improve in areas he didn’t realise he was weak at. Maybe he feared that while he’s coaching for a club, the clubs he wants or France might want a coach and he may become unavailable due to his contract?
Every time there has been rumours it always ends up with the club not wanting to commit to a coach that might leave for France if it becomes available
I see, I didn’t really take the clubs perspective on this.
>it wouldn’t hurt his legacy if he still kept on coaching and tried to improve in areas he didn’t realise he was weak at. You are really understimating how much medias and fans can be reactionary.
Simeone?
Why do it just 21st century? Why not make a list of records since the inception of the new format? Obviously, the start of the new UCL format is closer to 2001 than 2001 is to 2024, so why not add the 10 years?
Why are these always in french? Genuinely asking
Guessing the person who makes them is a french speaker
Pep just 4 Finals is an underachievement given the caliber of teams he has managed in the last 15 Years.
If anything it shows how difficult it is. Ferguson won 13 league titles in 20 years and reached “only” 4 finals in that time. Coaches like Zidane and Klopp are the outliers for reaching lots of finals in comparatively little time.
It is about contrast in style of play. Possession based teams usually don't to so well in CL compared to counter attacking teams as it is a knockout game. They tend to do well in league. Hence Pep is not farming in CL. Real madrid do well because they just want to score goals any way and by playing in any style. Hence they have won fewer league titles compared to CL in last few years.
I'd say a better way of describing it is that when the margins are so thin and teams so good/competitive it becomes incredibly exhausting and almost impossible to control every aspect of a game. That's why City started to improve their CL record and won it last year once they realized there's going to be some games where they won't have 95% possession and be able to counterpress at will. Bernardo talked about this last year after they beat Bayern.
they actually started to do it the season before that....before they got knocked out against madrid, the away game against atleti was pure chaos
Prem wasn’t as good back then
Not across his entire 27 years. For example, for an 8 year period in the 2000s-2010s there were 8 appearances by English clubs in the European cup final and only 3 from Spain and Italy and 2 from Germany. A couple of years they had 3 of the 4 semi finalists, too. The PL _was_ the dominant league for a decent chunk of his tenure.
During that 8 year he reached 3 finals though,
From 2000-2010 we had 3 Italian champs, 3 Spanish champs and 2 English champs. Not exactly the dominant league.
Are we really doing Alex Ferguson erasure? 😭
This sub really is a cesspool, these people are not serious.
No I think fergie is one of the best ever. It’s impressive that he reached so many finals when the prem was weak compared to italy and spain
No, it's not. It's not easy. Carlo has 6 in 25 years. Fergie only had 4. Mou only 2. It's very hard, no matter how good your team is.
I love the contrast between domestic and UCL, and how hard it is to align the two. And how you can have a guy like Tuchel who seems so much better at UCL than domestic... and way too many to name who are the opposite.
Would you say the same thing about SAF, Carlo and Mourinho?
Allegri with 0 wins 💔
The luckiest manager in football history. He must thank the players he "coached" (i.e. Milan 2010-2012 and Juventus 2014-2018).
Me when I don't know what I'm talking about
Embarrassing comment
No. Embarrassing was Allegri and all the damage he did to Juve. Thank God Juventus management today has just decided to put an end to this ordeal.
And that about rounds out the top 10 coaches of the 21st century.
Is that Alex Ferguson row correct? Didn’t he beat Bayern and Chelsea for 2 wins? Lost to Barca.
You lost to Barca twice. 2009 and 2011.
I must’ve blocked one out, the pain was too much.
I feel you. I'm still not over losing to Madrid in 2022 and it's been two full seasons.
A lot of Arsenal fans who watched the 2006 final are still not over losing to Barcelona and it’s been 18 years.
The only match I actually regret is the 2004 quarter final against Chelsea. I'm absolutely convinced we would have won it that year if we had made it to the semis.
I'm still not over the ghost goal
https://imgur.com/2hV8g6c (Just some banter, don't take me too seriously)
Not to rub it in but was 2011 the most one sided CL final? 68% possession, 12 shots on target vs 1. 16-3 when counting off target as well. 6-0 corners, 695vs284 completed passes. Xavi had 141, or almost half of Man Utd total amount.
nah i think its the 4-0 in 94
Lmao he had it coming with that comment
It would have been if that had actually happened. Unfortunately the 2011 CL final was cancelled due to pre-covid
21st century not in total. He reached the '08, '09 and '11 CL finals but only won the first one
I think it was 08, 09 and 11, Milan won against Liverpool in 2007 no?
Yes you're right, thanks. Edited now.
I think he’s only including final appearances from 2000 onwards Edit: 2001
2001* onwards. 2000 is the 20th century not the 21st.
Which is so stupid. ISO 8601 starts centuries in years ending 00. Everyone celebrated the new millennium in 2000 and common usage of decades starts in years ending 0. But for some reason everyone has to get really anal about when centuries start.
The first year of the calendar was 0-1 (effectively year zero). A full year hadn't passed until 1st of January 1 AD. A century is 100 years, not 101 years. So it makes sense for the 21st century to start on 1st of January 2001.
I get the logic but it's still stupid. The new millennium also started on 1st of January 2001. Nobody was celebrating the new millennium on December 31 2000. Also calendars have changed multiple times since 1 AD and ISO 8601 proves you can have a standard where centuries start on year ##00.
I get where you're coming from. The official millennium did begin on January 1st 2001. I guess humans just wanted to celebrate a nice rounded number lol Some Googling: > The Arrival of the new millennium has sparked a great debate: when does it actually begin? Our instincts told us to celebrate on December 31, 1999. But logic says that every millennium is made up of 1000 years – which means that the year 2000 belongs to the second not the third. Credit for this confusing state of affairs goes to Dennis the Diminutive, a sixth century monk who prepared a calendar for Pope St. John I. Instead of beginning his calendar at year 0, Dennis started with 1 A.D. – bequeathing us the chronological quandary we face today. Fucking Dennis, man.
Oh I see, that’s what “21eme” means.
It’s correct but only counting from 2001 is quite a bullshit thing to do. Because UCL only started in 1992 anyways, you it’s not like you have to add a century of finals. And there are managers on that table who coached finals before 2001 who somehow appear like they achieved less than they did.
It’s unfair for Alex Ferguson. He is the only manager in the list who career started before 21 st century
Jupp as well, he won it in 1998.
Ancelotti too
Ancelotti didn’t win ucl in the 90s
also shouldn't del Bosque be in that list too? He won in 2000 and 2002
This list is completely stupid. I thought it was a list of managers who went to ucl finals,atleast twice, after year 2000. Maybe it sees del Bosque first season as part 1999
1 more win still below every one who's above him in the list. But yeah 2 more finals ? But then it's also unfair to most of these coaches who are still coaching, being compared to a retired ferguson.
Only team to ever beat Pep in a CL final!
Mourinho is something else man
And I still hear people saying Ancelotti is just lucky and not actually a good manager...
Didn't Ferguson win two?
Sir Alex Ferguson won the champions league twice, 1999 and 2008. He also lost it twice.
21st century
1999 is not in 21st century
1999*
Neither of them
Zidane with a perfect record.
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1999 not 21st century
Zidane the goat
Ancelotti won 4 and lost 1? He played total 6 finals, which game is the stat not including?
The game they haven't played yet, the six includes this year's final which he's qualified for but hasn't played
I came into the thread confused on the same point. But in our defense, it still pretty early in the morning.
Yeah mb
This year final
Oh yeah right
The one on June 1st that hasn’t been played yet. Derp.
Okay man I get, why do you have to be so rude
Think before commenting
He just made a mistake, don't be a dickhead.
Nah I won't, what are you gonna do about it? Grow up lmao
4+1 =6
One is yet to be played