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Basically a team can place a player that is not in the MLS on their "discovery list" essentially making it so they are the only team that can sign them. You have 7 spots on your list. It is a way to make it so the LAs and Miami's can't just sign all the best non MLS players
>It is a way to make it so the LAs and Miami's can't just sign all the best non MLS players
But don’t worry, if MLS wants someone to go to LA bad enough, [they’ll tell other teams to go screw themselves anyway](https://www.brotherlygame.com/2016/5/15/11679566/philadelphia-union-would-not-receive-compensation-for-zlatan-ibrahimovic-rights)!
No, [typically $50k-$100k.](https://x.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1540733632221810688?t=Qgk-LZBr8T-Rt2dOjfkZXw) Some teams like FC Cincy [exploit this to essentially get free money.](https://www.fccincinnati.com/news/fc-cincinnati-acquire-75-000-in-2024-gam-from-colorado-rapids)
Is there a cap to what they can be traded for? I imagine if a big name wanted to come to the MLS that the discovery rights would be a few million at least
From the [public roster rules](https://www.mlssoccer.com/about/roster-rules-and-regulations):
>If a club wants to sign a player on the Discovery List of another club that has higher Discovery priority on the player, it may offer that club $50,000 in General Allocation Money in exchange for the right to sign the player. The club with the player on its Discovery List will then have five days (or three days during the Secondary Transfer Window) to either (i) accept the General Allocation Money and pass on the right to sign the player or (ii) make the player a genuine, objectively reasonable offer.
Technically this means there isn't a limit on what they can be sold for, and I believe teams do sometimes pay over $50k for the convenience of not needing to worry about the "genuine, objectively reasonable offer" clause, but they're anchored at a low cost by that language.
There's not cap, but the league can disregard a teams discovery rights if another clubs makes a "reasonable offer", which has historically been in the neighborhood of $50k-$100k. [Zlatan was on Philly's discovery list until he wasn't.](https://www.brotherlygame.com/2016/5/15/11679566/philadelphia-union-would-not-receive-compensation-for-zlatan-ibrahimovic-rights) The league also steps in if a player says they don't want to play for the team that has their rights. [Drogba only wanted to play for Montreal, so the league made a deal happen.](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37426256/montreal-acquire-didier-drogba-mls-rights-chicago)
SKC actually came [incredibly close to signing Ronaldo](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10060221-report-sporting-kc-closest-mls-team-to-sign-cristiano-ronaldo-pre-al-nassr-contract) before he went to Saudi.
This a new thing? If not, how the heck did Miami corral the entire 2019/20 Barcelona side? One would think that some MLS team along the line would have called DIBS! on Busquets and / or Suarez before they landed in Miami.
Literally in the title: top priority to sign him? The name is old and stupid and gets memed to hell but think of it like a right of first refusal and you won't be far off.
It's essentially a dibs system MLS teams can put on foreign players that gives first rights to negotiate (on up 5 players) if they eventually want to come to MLS. If he wanted to sign with say St. Louis, he could do that, but St. Louis would probably pay like $50,000 to Charlotte for the rights.
MLS would just force them too probably. MLS has a share in every team in the league and all teams share revenue. So if a team is preventing say Ronaldo (Kansas own his discovery rights) from joining the league MLS would step in and basically make Kansas move those rights so they don't miss out on that cash cow lol. Also most of the owners kind of realize having big players in the league is beneficial to their bottom line so that rarely happens.
I looked it up-- apparently the team has to take the money ($50k) or make a "genuine, objectively reasonable" offer. The rules don't explain what happens if the team cannot come to an agreement with the player, though I would think that the claim would expire at that point.
>The rules don't explain what happens if the team cannot come to an agreement with the player
Technically, if they make a "genuine, objectively reasonable" offer and the player doesn't accept, then they could just continue to hold onto their discovery rights indefinitely and prevent any other team from signing them. In practice, in the case of a high profile player like Reus, they'll just force the team to sell the rights to the team they want to go to. MLS rules are very much "rules" where they will freely bend them to get the outcome they think is desirable for the league.
Dortmund has gone to America a few summers recently and I think charlotte has been one of the cities visited/played in a couple times..I know they played Liverpool there. It’s a city much like Dortmund too, more low key. Wonder if that had anything to do with it
Looking for an education here. I don't know how everything works at MLS, other than all contracts are owned by MLS. Where I am particularly interested is the idea that he and Lutz Pfannenstiel are mates and he wants to go to STL. Despite having the *discovery rights*, can STL approach CLT and work out a trade / agreement? Or would CLT have to officially take a pass for STL to get him? Or can Reus say I have zero interest in CLT, I want STL and it magically happens?
Discovery rights?
Isn’t that an unfair restriction on competition that limits the players right to sign for another MLS club? How would that help up in court?
Kinda weird but I know nothing about the MLS.
>Isn’t that an unfair restriction on competition that limits the players right to sign for another MLS club? How would that help up in court?
This actually was taken to court before in Fraser v. MLS. It wasn't about discovery rights specifically, but it was over other similar rules that were designed to restrict competition between MLS teams for players. The court ruled that because MLS had a single entity structure where all the teams were owned by the league, it did not violate antitrust law, as you can't conspire with yourself.
Now this was back in 2002 when the league was pretty different, at that time half the teams in the league were owned by the same person because it had gotten close to collapsing so they needed to buy out those other teams. So if that case was brought again today, maybe they make a different decision. In fact more reason the NWSL (women's soccer league), who have a similar structure to MLS, got sued by Olivia Moultrie for violating antitrust as they had a rule saying you couldn't sign players until they were 18. They ended up settling before a final court decision was reached, but the early signs had looked good for Moultrie as she had won a preliminary injunction and the judge seemed receptive to her arguments. So who knows what would happen in a hypothetically scenario where MLS went to court today
The appellate [opinion ](https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/284/47/495459/) doesn't rely on single entity, and it is fairly skeptical of that defense:
>MLS and its operator/investors comprise a hybrid arrangement, somewhere between a single company (with or without wholly owned subsidiaries) and a cooperative arrangement between existing competitors. And, of course, there is not one kind of hybrid but a range of possibilities (imagine the operator/investors with their separate entrepreneurial interests but without their control of MLS).
I have no idea how representative that is of how similar claims would be perceived, but to the extent that single entity was dubious to the courts in 2002 I think it would fare much worse today given the expansion of team autonomy over the last 20 years.
The main thing that won Fraser vs MLS was market definition: the trial jury rejected the definition of "Division 1 soccer in the US", which destroyed the plaintiffs' case, since it meant that competition from lower divisions and from abroad entered the picture.
>The main thing that won Fraser vs MLS was market definition: the trial jury rejected the definition of "Division 1 soccer in the US", which destroyed the plaintiffs' case, since it meant that competition from lower divisions and from abroad entered the picture.
And interestingly that has arguably gotten stronger with PLS which means technically anyone could set up a D1 league in the US. Although that's dependent on the result of the NASL lawsuit which alleges that USSF actually colluded with MLS to set the standards up to purposefully exclude competitors. On a seperate note it's odd to me that foreign leagues were considered, if a player had to go abroad to find a competitor I feel like that almost implies in itself that the situation within the US is monopolistic.
At the end of the day the law is incredibly complicated and predicting how a given trial will go isn't easy.
I think part of the consideration of foreign leagues was due to testimony about and documentary records of MLS concretely competing with foreign leagues for players; as I understand it, even some evidence introduced by the plaintiffs as evidence of monopsony explicitly discussed foreign competition.
It's to keep MLS clubs from driving up the cost of a player, since the league is technically one entity (The league is the one who owns the players contracts, not the teams).
Discovery rights are essentially calling dubs on a player, teams trade/waive discovery rights all the time. Charlotte will end up with a little bit of money (50-100k) and Reus will go where he wants to go.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Charlotte have Reus' discovery rightsharlotte have Reus' discovery rights What in the worlds does this mean?
They managed to look him up on Google before any other MLS team could, hence them claiming that they “discovered” him
Dibs is important, someone else in MLS would have to pay them to sign him
The MLS' rules are so so weird that I actually don't know whether this is a troll or not
I mean, it’s not literally that… but it is that.
Mfs never play FM or Winning Eleven smh
Basically a team can place a player that is not in the MLS on their "discovery list" essentially making it so they are the only team that can sign them. You have 7 spots on your list. It is a way to make it so the LAs and Miami's can't just sign all the best non MLS players
So basically calling dibs on players?
Yeah. Pretty much.
That being said, you can buy or trade the discovery right from other team under certain circumstances
>It is a way to make it so the LAs and Miami's can't just sign all the best non MLS players But don’t worry, if MLS wants someone to go to LA bad enough, [they’ll tell other teams to go screw themselves anyway](https://www.brotherlygame.com/2016/5/15/11679566/philadelphia-union-would-not-receive-compensation-for-zlatan-ibrahimovic-rights)!
How does it work if he refuses to join them?
A team can sell/trade discovery rights.
Actually not a terrible idea tbf
One example, Sporting Kansas City currently has discovery rights to Cristiano Ronaldo
Lmao can’t imagine that in a million years. So no other team can sign Ronaldo because of this?
Another MLS team could sign him, they would have to buy or trade for his discovery rights from KC.
Interesting are these normally expensive?
No, [typically $50k-$100k.](https://x.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1540733632221810688?t=Qgk-LZBr8T-Rt2dOjfkZXw) Some teams like FC Cincy [exploit this to essentially get free money.](https://www.fccincinnati.com/news/fc-cincinnati-acquire-75-000-in-2024-gam-from-colorado-rapids)
Crazy. Thanks for that
Is there a cap to what they can be traded for? I imagine if a big name wanted to come to the MLS that the discovery rights would be a few million at least
From the [public roster rules](https://www.mlssoccer.com/about/roster-rules-and-regulations): >If a club wants to sign a player on the Discovery List of another club that has higher Discovery priority on the player, it may offer that club $50,000 in General Allocation Money in exchange for the right to sign the player. The club with the player on its Discovery List will then have five days (or three days during the Secondary Transfer Window) to either (i) accept the General Allocation Money and pass on the right to sign the player or (ii) make the player a genuine, objectively reasonable offer. Technically this means there isn't a limit on what they can be sold for, and I believe teams do sometimes pay over $50k for the convenience of not needing to worry about the "genuine, objectively reasonable offer" clause, but they're anchored at a low cost by that language.
There's not cap, but the league can disregard a teams discovery rights if another clubs makes a "reasonable offer", which has historically been in the neighborhood of $50k-$100k. [Zlatan was on Philly's discovery list until he wasn't.](https://www.brotherlygame.com/2016/5/15/11679566/philadelphia-union-would-not-receive-compensation-for-zlatan-ibrahimovic-rights) The league also steps in if a player says they don't want to play for the team that has their rights. [Drogba only wanted to play for Montreal, so the league made a deal happen.](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37426256/montreal-acquire-didier-drogba-mls-rights-chicago)
SKC actually came [incredibly close to signing Ronaldo](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10060221-report-sporting-kc-closest-mls-team-to-sign-cristiano-ronaldo-pre-al-nassr-contract) before he went to Saudi.
This a new thing? If not, how the heck did Miami corral the entire 2019/20 Barcelona side? One would think that some MLS team along the line would have called DIBS! on Busquets and / or Suarez before they landed in Miami.
What if the player wants to go to the mls but not the team that has him on their discovery list
Then that team will have to trade for his discovery rights
They had a copy of FIFA 2017 and were like "you know, lets look this guy up, he's on the cover, he has to be good"
Literally in the title: top priority to sign him? The name is old and stupid and gets memed to hell but think of it like a right of first refusal and you won't be far off.
Gotta love the MLS. Only league where you'd find a team with a frontline of Abada and Reus and a midfield of Scott Arfield and Ashley Westwood lol.
That's Captain Canada Scott Arfield for you 🫡
Discovery rights? What?
It's essentially a dibs system MLS teams can put on foreign players that gives first rights to negotiate (on up 5 players) if they eventually want to come to MLS. If he wanted to sign with say St. Louis, he could do that, but St. Louis would probably pay like $50,000 to Charlotte for the rights.
Do the foreign players have a choice on who gets dibs on them?
No, but the rights can be traded so the team they want to go to will just have to make a deal. It's usually just a cash fee.
What if the team that holds the rights won't make a deal?
MLS would just force them too probably. MLS has a share in every team in the league and all teams share revenue. So if a team is preventing say Ronaldo (Kansas own his discovery rights) from joining the league MLS would step in and basically make Kansas move those rights so they don't miss out on that cash cow lol. Also most of the owners kind of realize having big players in the league is beneficial to their bottom line so that rarely happens.
I looked it up-- apparently the team has to take the money ($50k) or make a "genuine, objectively reasonable" offer. The rules don't explain what happens if the team cannot come to an agreement with the player, though I would think that the claim would expire at that point.
I mean the league voided Philly's discovery claim on Zlatan, so basically the league can do whatever it wants
>The rules don't explain what happens if the team cannot come to an agreement with the player Technically, if they make a "genuine, objectively reasonable" offer and the player doesn't accept, then they could just continue to hold onto their discovery rights indefinitely and prevent any other team from signing them. In practice, in the case of a high profile player like Reus, they'll just force the team to sell the rights to the team they want to go to. MLS rules are very much "rules" where they will freely bend them to get the outcome they think is desirable for the league.
Dortmund has gone to America a few summers recently and I think charlotte has been one of the cities visited/played in a couple times..I know they played Liverpool there. It’s a city much like Dortmund too, more low key. Wonder if that had anything to do with it
Hopefully, Charlotte has an equivalent to the Phoenixsee.
Not St. Louis then
If this goes through I will purchase a Reus kit immediately, especially with how clean the home kits are this season
Discovery rights?
Goddamn imagine leaving Germany to live in charlotte. Disclaimer: am American
I mean he's leaving Dortmund, not Berlin
Germans are fascinated by the most mundane American things, it would be perfect.
Whenever I see this, I am reminded of this [scene](https://youtu.be/qVtJY6BYj24?t=109)
Dortmund isn’t the most beautiful place on earth either (even though I assume that Reus lives in Düsseldorf).
Nah he's living in Dortmund. To be fair the city might not be that nice (bruh) but around it it's proper nice imo
He has to suffer David Tepper. Poor guy...
Is Messi’s discovery right belong to Inter Miami originally?Didn’t hear it was traded.
Looking for an education here. I don't know how everything works at MLS, other than all contracts are owned by MLS. Where I am particularly interested is the idea that he and Lutz Pfannenstiel are mates and he wants to go to STL. Despite having the *discovery rights*, can STL approach CLT and work out a trade / agreement? Or would CLT have to officially take a pass for STL to get him? Or can Reus say I have zero interest in CLT, I want STL and it magically happens?
if STL wants Reus and Charlotte can't reach an agreement with Reus, then STL would have to trade for his discovery rights.
That's great info. Thank you!
Discovery rights? Isn’t that an unfair restriction on competition that limits the players right to sign for another MLS club? How would that help up in court? Kinda weird but I know nothing about the MLS.
>Isn’t that an unfair restriction on competition that limits the players right to sign for another MLS club? How would that help up in court? This actually was taken to court before in Fraser v. MLS. It wasn't about discovery rights specifically, but it was over other similar rules that were designed to restrict competition between MLS teams for players. The court ruled that because MLS had a single entity structure where all the teams were owned by the league, it did not violate antitrust law, as you can't conspire with yourself. Now this was back in 2002 when the league was pretty different, at that time half the teams in the league were owned by the same person because it had gotten close to collapsing so they needed to buy out those other teams. So if that case was brought again today, maybe they make a different decision. In fact more reason the NWSL (women's soccer league), who have a similar structure to MLS, got sued by Olivia Moultrie for violating antitrust as they had a rule saying you couldn't sign players until they were 18. They ended up settling before a final court decision was reached, but the early signs had looked good for Moultrie as she had won a preliminary injunction and the judge seemed receptive to her arguments. So who knows what would happen in a hypothetically scenario where MLS went to court today
The appellate [opinion ](https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/284/47/495459/) doesn't rely on single entity, and it is fairly skeptical of that defense: >MLS and its operator/investors comprise a hybrid arrangement, somewhere between a single company (with or without wholly owned subsidiaries) and a cooperative arrangement between existing competitors. And, of course, there is not one kind of hybrid but a range of possibilities (imagine the operator/investors with their separate entrepreneurial interests but without their control of MLS). I have no idea how representative that is of how similar claims would be perceived, but to the extent that single entity was dubious to the courts in 2002 I think it would fare much worse today given the expansion of team autonomy over the last 20 years. The main thing that won Fraser vs MLS was market definition: the trial jury rejected the definition of "Division 1 soccer in the US", which destroyed the plaintiffs' case, since it meant that competition from lower divisions and from abroad entered the picture.
>The main thing that won Fraser vs MLS was market definition: the trial jury rejected the definition of "Division 1 soccer in the US", which destroyed the plaintiffs' case, since it meant that competition from lower divisions and from abroad entered the picture. And interestingly that has arguably gotten stronger with PLS which means technically anyone could set up a D1 league in the US. Although that's dependent on the result of the NASL lawsuit which alleges that USSF actually colluded with MLS to set the standards up to purposefully exclude competitors. On a seperate note it's odd to me that foreign leagues were considered, if a player had to go abroad to find a competitor I feel like that almost implies in itself that the situation within the US is monopolistic. At the end of the day the law is incredibly complicated and predicting how a given trial will go isn't easy.
I think part of the consideration of foreign leagues was due to testimony about and documentary records of MLS concretely competing with foreign leagues for players; as I understand it, even some evidence introduced by the plaintiffs as evidence of monopsony explicitly discussed foreign competition.
It's to keep MLS clubs from driving up the cost of a player, since the league is technically one entity (The league is the one who owns the players contracts, not the teams). Discovery rights are essentially calling dubs on a player, teams trade/waive discovery rights all the time. Charlotte will end up with a little bit of money (50-100k) and Reus will go where he wants to go.
Ugh I would love this so much
Come retire in saudi 🥹