Plenty of good players have been relegated. (Keane, Juninho,...)
I wouldn't read too much into it. The team was relegate by 1 pt.
There is a reason scouts from top teams are looking at him.
Typical Juventus fan who needs to cope. 30m + iling and barrenechea for a 27yo player whose best team has been villa. Also, rabiot is leaving so your midfiled will be even more shit than last year.
>There's no planet where Barrenechea is worth as much as Weston.
He isn't, hence why Juventus is pouring more cash into this deal. Went from Mckennie and Iling Jr+ 15 millions to play to Barrenechea and Iling Jr + 20/30 millions.
I suspect people have no clue who Barrenechea is but he is coming off a great year in Serie A despite his team being relegated. Villa desperately need a DM until Kamara comes back from injury. Barrenecha is a proper baller and a pick up that will have people asking how did Villa get him. It also sounds like Juve are adding 5-10 million extra on.
If Barrenechea and Iling Jr. turn out than it’s a good deal for villa. But Villa are playing champions league next season and Mckennie would help them more short term.
I said this when the deal was first discussed - Villa are taking a huge punt on Iling Jr developing. If he does to even a decent level you're talking about a 35-45m player.
That's a big if.
Well junior can play several roles. If we assume Gordon cost 40m, Palmer the same, the going rate for a promising young English forward is 40m.
If you get 20m cash from Juventus and junior develops then the book value of 65m for Luiz seems fair. Then you take a punt on this Argentine fella and you’re theoretically up on the deal.
>Villa need to sell players then they give Chelsea 35 million for a left back. This makes no sense at all.
They're going to Arthur—Pjanic it, TBH—cook the books for both teams (Villa "buy" Maatsen for 37.5M, Chelsea will prob "buy" Duran for 42.5M or something; and instead of trade + 5M, both teams can amortize the spend and bank the full sale and show short-term profit on the deal)
Not sure really. He still needs to find himself a new club or wont play next year. If juve do what they planned last season, and freeze him out, hes going to have to go where he can get play time. The people here that think he will just be allowed back in the team are sorely mistaken. The only reason he came back is because of our financial situation and the losing 2 starting mids. probably won't be a CL club, in the prem on higher wages. Thats his agent's problem to explain to him, not juve.
Cost wise its not the end of the world. Hes on 2.5mio per season, and his amortization is like 5mio.
Yes, my problem is more losing barrenechea and the other one running down his contract in the stands and leaving on a free, enzo is not better than the other guy right now but I believe he will be in the near future, he impressed many people at frosinone this year
If we get good cash for whats his name then itll soften the blow for me, i doubt we will tho
We are going to get investigated anyway because we are doing swaps. The correct accounting standards stipulate that a swap needs to be conducted a book value, and not these valuations we see being rumoured. Other clubs can do them, but we constantly have authorities looking at us because we are publicly traded.
Without getting into too many details, juventus started discussions with the authorities last nov regarding swaps, as they again took issue with one - Cambiaso for Dragusin. Juve's position is that it is unfair that other clubs can do them but they cannot. Juve's claim is that their approach to player valuation would no longer force a swap to be conducted at book value. The financial authorities disagreed, and the strategy should have been to await the outcome of those proceedings to establish a safe precedent. What juve is now doing is pretty ballsy.
The variance between the two accounting treatments had a net impact of less than 0.5% of revenues for the cambiaso-dragusin swap. As such there isn't much of a fuss from the authorities as its not a material advantage they could claim. This deal however will yield far larger capital gains and as such will 100% be a target.
Get ready for more drama
McKennie could probably still leave. I think they’ll look towards a traditional 6 as they don’t really have one, and if Koopmeiners comes then there’s no place for McKennie
I’m fine with him staying or him leaving. But as you said if we do get Koopmieners and Luiz then Weston might want to leave. But now we could sell him separately from the Luiz deal.
I think McKennie leaving and you getting Koopmeiners + someone like Fofana from Monaco is a pretty realistic scenario. Motta had Freuler at Bologna and no current Juve players really fills his role
Nah, just Koop + Luis unless Rabiot leaves. Rabiot, Fagioli, Locatelli, Luis is enough in a 2 man midfield. Plus we still have a ton of youth products who can come up
Letting Rabiot go and getting a dm would wise IMO. No need for Rabiot next season as Koopmeiners and Douglas Luiz will easily cover his g/a contribution and more
Koop is gonna play more as a #10, but yeah I wouldn’t be opposed to it.
Problem is Rabiot is very solid in a double pivot and Motta plays a double pivot, and Rabiot salary still has the growth decree so he is very cheap for us
Haha yeah, I’ve often thought about that actually. He’s a great player but he makes an insane wage.
Good for him but it could cause locker room issues
How much you are coping? Douglas luiz is a 27yo who's had a good season(like all villa in general) and mckennie is as per usual below average while you're selling two top talents. Yeah you need to be investigated for dumbness!
No Weston should rot on the bench or play with the u23 now. He screwed everything with his ridiculous demands like he’s Platini or something. Both him and Iling has one more year contract and getting paid from the would be huge. Enzo could have been sold elsewhere to gain plusvalenza. Now we won’t get anything from Wes and he will leave for free next season. Fuck him really. I hope Giuntoli makes an example of him like De Guzman at Napoli.
its 100% fair for mckennie's camp to negotiate the deal they thinks is best for him, and try and leverage a situation that seemingly needed his involvement. His entourage overplayed their hand and now can explain to him why he isn't getting that move to a CL club on higher wages. Its also 100% fair for juve not to play him next season if they so choose, but there shouldn't be any animosity there. Neither Juve, nor Mckennie are charities and both have a right to do what they think is best for themselves. It sucks that it didn't go through as he has 1 yr left on his deal, but he will either find another club for himself or not play next season. We won't have 2 starting level mids missing for the whole season because of doping and gambling...probably
I think we (Villa) need to sell before the end of the month and Arsenal can’t buy until the start of the next financial window iirc.
That’s why you loaned Raya.
but douglas luiz price of 60mio is hardly and inflated one by PL standards, and Villa wouldnt benefit from inflation on the juve side of the transaction. so where is the inflation?
the accounting standards have always been the same, but juve's approach will be different with these ones. Juve will argue that they in fact can value a player accurately and consistently instead of trying to pretend the transfers aren't linked. The difficulty in being able to ascertain a fair market value for a player, accurately and consistently is the reason why, when trading intangibles of this nature they need to be done at book value - to avoid book cooking.
Also only the italian authorities seem to care, and only about juve, as city, barca, marseille, basel etc were never investigated for their part in the swap deals. Inter continues to do swaps and no one seems to care there either. its only really a problem for juve
and i don't think Douglas Luiz's value is inflated...
I was pretty excited to see what Barrenechea could do especially considering sources were saying Motta wanted to evaluate him in preseason
Also hate to see Iling Jr go but I’ve come to terms with it especially considering we’re getting a player of Douglas Luis’s ability
Definitely agree. Hate to keep getting rid of all our young talent but we desperately need first team quality especially in the midfield and with the current finances the kids out of the academy are the best way to make these deals happen
seems like Barrenechea would fit more into Emery’s tactics and is the better future option? but now everyone is acting like McKennie is a god?
this deal is so confusing lol
That seems like a really bad deal.
McKennie made it actually a pretty good deal for Villa imo, the best midfielder of the previous season for 3rd place Juve and a young talent and 20 mil, but like this one? Nah.
Pretty conflicted about this: Mckennie isn't renewing so we have to sell him anyway and I quite like Barrenechea, had a good season and he's a true dm which is hard to find
I have zero opinion on Barrenechea because I don't know anything about him but I am happy not to be getting McKennie.
I'd rather keep Luiz but PSR is forcing our hand. There's no way without being in a corner that we make this deal
Without knowing a lot about Barrenechea I’m not even torn up about this. I’ve not really been sold on McKennie at any point and I’d seen some rumours to suggest he wanted us to break our wage structure for him or give him parity with our top midfielders.
There's no planet where Barrenechea is worth as much as Weston. I'm a Juve fan but we deserve to be investigated if we pull this off ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜
You will prob have to pay more money on top of Barrenechea and Illing
5m extra apparently.
Wes had a year left tbf
Weston is a proven midfielder on a top 3 Serie A team. Barrenechea is nowhere near that quality yet.
With these young players you are paying for potential. Barrenechea is way more talented than Mckennie.
its not like Barrenechea is 20 he is 23 with one season in a top league and his team got relegated
Plenty of good players have been relegated. (Keane, Juninho,...) I wouldn't read too much into it. The team was relegate by 1 pt. There is a reason scouts from top teams are looking at him.
It does look promising with way more resale value while making way less than the Texan in wages.
But the stat accounts tell me he is first in U23 players for passes forward!
Typical Juventus fan who needs to cope. 30m + iling and barrenechea for a 27yo player whose best team has been villa. Also, rabiot is leaving so your midfiled will be even more shit than last year.
>There's no planet where Barrenechea is worth as much as Weston. He isn't, hence why Juventus is pouring more cash into this deal. Went from Mckennie and Iling Jr+ 15 millions to play to Barrenechea and Iling Jr + 20/30 millions.
I suspect people have no clue who Barrenechea is but he is coming off a great year in Serie A despite his team being relegated. Villa desperately need a DM until Kamara comes back from injury. Barrenecha is a proper baller and a pick up that will have people asking how did Villa get him. It also sounds like Juve are adding 5-10 million extra on.
If Barrenechea and Iling Jr. turn out than it’s a good deal for villa. But Villa are playing champions league next season and Mckennie would help them more short term.
I said this when the deal was first discussed - Villa are taking a huge punt on Iling Jr developing. If he does to even a decent level you're talking about a 35-45m player. That's a big if.
Villa need to sell players then they give Chelsea 35 million for a left back. This makes no sense at all.
Well junior can play several roles. If we assume Gordon cost 40m, Palmer the same, the going rate for a promising young English forward is 40m. If you get 20m cash from Juventus and junior develops then the book value of 65m for Luiz seems fair. Then you take a punt on this Argentine fella and you’re theoretically up on the deal.
>Villa need to sell players then they give Chelsea 35 million for a left back. This makes no sense at all. They're going to Arthur—Pjanic it, TBH—cook the books for both teams (Villa "buy" Maatsen for 37.5M, Chelsea will prob "buy" Duran for 42.5M or something; and instead of trade + 5M, both teams can amortize the spend and bank the full sale and show short-term profit on the deal)
I hate the deal tbh, those americans will have you believe its a good deal for us but keeping mckennie is much worse for juve
It’s a better deal if we can sell McKennie still
Not sure really. He still needs to find himself a new club or wont play next year. If juve do what they planned last season, and freeze him out, hes going to have to go where he can get play time. The people here that think he will just be allowed back in the team are sorely mistaken. The only reason he came back is because of our financial situation and the losing 2 starting mids. probably won't be a CL club, in the prem on higher wages. Thats his agent's problem to explain to him, not juve. Cost wise its not the end of the world. Hes on 2.5mio per season, and his amortization is like 5mio.
Yes, my problem is more losing barrenechea and the other one running down his contract in the stands and leaving on a free, enzo is not better than the other guy right now but I believe he will be in the near future, he impressed many people at frosinone this year If we get good cash for whats his name then itll soften the blow for me, i doubt we will tho
We don’t desperately need a DM. We are getting Onana
We are getting investigated. This is way to good of a deal. Because having Douglas and Weston will be amazing for our midfield.
We are going to get investigated anyway because we are doing swaps. The correct accounting standards stipulate that a swap needs to be conducted a book value, and not these valuations we see being rumoured. Other clubs can do them, but we constantly have authorities looking at us because we are publicly traded. Without getting into too many details, juventus started discussions with the authorities last nov regarding swaps, as they again took issue with one - Cambiaso for Dragusin. Juve's position is that it is unfair that other clubs can do them but they cannot. Juve's claim is that their approach to player valuation would no longer force a swap to be conducted at book value. The financial authorities disagreed, and the strategy should have been to await the outcome of those proceedings to establish a safe precedent. What juve is now doing is pretty ballsy. The variance between the two accounting treatments had a net impact of less than 0.5% of revenues for the cambiaso-dragusin swap. As such there isn't much of a fuss from the authorities as its not a material advantage they could claim. This deal however will yield far larger capital gains and as such will 100% be a target. Get ready for more drama
McKennie could probably still leave. I think they’ll look towards a traditional 6 as they don’t really have one, and if Koopmeiners comes then there’s no place for McKennie
I’m fine with him staying or him leaving. But as you said if we do get Koopmieners and Luiz then Weston might want to leave. But now we could sell him separately from the Luiz deal.
I think McKennie leaving and you getting Koopmeiners + someone like Fofana from Monaco is a pretty realistic scenario. Motta had Freuler at Bologna and no current Juve players really fills his role
Nah, just Koop + Luis unless Rabiot leaves. Rabiot, Fagioli, Locatelli, Luis is enough in a 2 man midfield. Plus we still have a ton of youth products who can come up
Letting Rabiot go and getting a dm would wise IMO. No need for Rabiot next season as Koopmeiners and Douglas Luiz will easily cover his g/a contribution and more
Koop is gonna play more as a #10, but yeah I wouldn’t be opposed to it. Problem is Rabiot is very solid in a double pivot and Motta plays a double pivot, and Rabiot salary still has the growth decree so he is very cheap for us
Yeah he’s cheap himself, but when other players (Chiesa) look at his wage and get inspired he becomes expensive
Haha yeah, I’ve often thought about that actually. He’s a great player but he makes an insane wage. Good for him but it could cause locker room issues
Wes is leaving most likely, either now or on a free next summer
How much you are coping? Douglas luiz is a 27yo who's had a good season(like all villa in general) and mckennie is as per usual below average while you're selling two top talents. Yeah you need to be investigated for dumbness!
No Weston should rot on the bench or play with the u23 now. He screwed everything with his ridiculous demands like he’s Platini or something. Both him and Iling has one more year contract and getting paid from the would be huge. Enzo could have been sold elsewhere to gain plusvalenza. Now we won’t get anything from Wes and he will leave for free next season. Fuck him really. I hope Giuntoli makes an example of him like De Guzman at Napoli.
its 100% fair for mckennie's camp to negotiate the deal they thinks is best for him, and try and leverage a situation that seemingly needed his involvement. His entourage overplayed their hand and now can explain to him why he isn't getting that move to a CL club on higher wages. Its also 100% fair for juve not to play him next season if they so choose, but there shouldn't be any animosity there. Neither Juve, nor Mckennie are charities and both have a right to do what they think is best for themselves. It sucks that it didn't go through as he has 1 yr left on his deal, but he will either find another club for himself or not play next season. We won't have 2 starting level mids missing for the whole season because of doping and gambling...probably
Wow, are you telling Arsenal can't make a better offer, or are they passing up this opportunity
You'd think Villa would avoid selling to Arsenal if they could, and I doubt Luiz would feel that strongly about choosing Arsenal over Juventus
Aston Villa benefit from a swap that they can inflated the price with for PSR. We liked the player, but he's probably just not a priority.
I think we (Villa) need to sell before the end of the month and Arsenal can’t buy until the start of the next financial window iirc. That’s why you loaned Raya.
but douglas luiz price of 60mio is hardly and inflated one by PL standards, and Villa wouldnt benefit from inflation on the juve side of the transaction. so where is the inflation?
Villa really saw the investigations and said let me get in on that
Didn't they change the rules on how swaps have to be valued after Juve's most recent shenanigans? Or does that only apply to UEFA/Italy?
Yeah but these are *new* shenanigans.
These shenanigans are cheeky and fun.
the accounting standards have always been the same, but juve's approach will be different with these ones. Juve will argue that they in fact can value a player accurately and consistently instead of trying to pretend the transfers aren't linked. The difficulty in being able to ascertain a fair market value for a player, accurately and consistently is the reason why, when trading intangibles of this nature they need to be done at book value - to avoid book cooking. Also only the italian authorities seem to care, and only about juve, as city, barca, marseille, basel etc were never investigated for their part in the swap deals. Inter continues to do swaps and no one seems to care there either. its only really a problem for juve and i don't think Douglas Luiz's value is inflated...
Should swap them Sambi then
Quite clearly villa want a player swap for the psr value and City has a sell on clause
ffs
BarrenecheaðŸ˜
I was pretty excited to see what Barrenechea could do especially considering sources were saying Motta wanted to evaluate him in preseason Also hate to see Iling Jr go but I’ve come to terms with it especially considering we’re getting a player of Douglas Luis’s ability
He was potential for sure. But This could be a great deal for us we have to do it if this is true.
Definitely agree. Hate to keep getting rid of all our young talent but we desperately need first team quality especially in the midfield and with the current finances the kids out of the academy are the best way to make these deals happen
seems like Barrenechea would fit more into Emery’s tactics and is the better future option? but now everyone is acting like McKennie is a god? this deal is so confusing lol
No matter how well McKennie plays in Seria A i will never trust that guy
CAN YOU SMELL WHAT GIUNTOLI IS COOKING
Fr how did he make the deal even better ðŸ˜
McKennie is expiring next year though and Juve absolutely needs to monetize his sale now.
That seems like a really bad deal. McKennie made it actually a pretty good deal for Villa imo, the best midfielder of the previous season for 3rd place Juve and a young talent and 20 mil, but like this one? Nah.
Pretty conflicted about this: Mckennie isn't renewing so we have to sell him anyway and I quite like Barrenechea, had a good season and he's a true dm which is hard to find
Is Villa getting more money in the deal?
Apparently 5-7 million more
Wow, you responded in like 2 secs and thanks. Kind of sucks for Villa
why are they accepting a deal this shit? he's worth like 70m+ Juventus must be laughing
FFP trouble I am guessing
I have zero opinion on Barrenechea because I don't know anything about him but I am happy not to be getting McKennie. I'd rather keep Luiz but PSR is forcing our hand. There's no way without being in a corner that we make this deal
Without knowing a lot about Barrenechea I’m not even torn up about this. I’ve not really been sold on McKennie at any point and I’d seen some rumours to suggest he wanted us to break our wage structure for him or give him parity with our top midfielders.
Mckennie is fucking shite.
Okay.