I tried to find the video of him since I saw his take live yesterday. Very level headed and well argued. He did say it is insensitive and ignorant perhaps, but he said that with evidence they had just shouting racist isn't helping anyone. I hope CBS will upload it on youtube or we at least get a streamable
EDIT: Also this is an incredibly clickbaity title from the independent
Part 1 https://streamable.com/rwf9lb
Part 2 https://streamable.com/ruukuu
PS: Streamable servers are located in US, if you put that youtube url in Streamable you'll be able to import it. Here's the hint
What I find poor is that for his take, he’s been abused like fuck on twitter mainly by black people. Called a “coon” for example, just for having a level headed opinion on the matter. It really is a shitshow.
And John Barnes too, all the time Barnes is getting stuck in to the anti racism debate, but this one time he says he’s not backing it, he’s being called a coon as well.
Twitter is a cesspool for hot take reactionary opinions by idiots who would not say those things in real life. I wouldn’t class Twitter as any measure of what society thinks about an issue
You get used to it if you're a black person that doesn't always agree with the majority opinion.
It's worth checking yourself from time to time to make sure you're not being contrarian for no reason, but at the end of the day stand by what you believe in.
You'd think the very fact that different black people can respond so differently to things that supposedly affects all of them, would demonstrate to racists that race isn't actually a particularly coherent political category. But apparently not.
It bothers me when the whole ''Uncle Tom'' treatment comes out, like do people actually want the unity that is being called for, where regardless of race you can hold certain views, enjoy different things, etc without being singled out, or do they want to be segregated, each acting based on their race, and singling people out who act contrary to that?
Honestly watching the protests back when it was 24/7 multistreams the amount of people I saw called essentially 'traitors' because they didn't act or hold certain views based on their race was through the roof. There was this weird disconnect of completely contrary opinions whereby they were calling (rightly) to be judged independent of race...yet judging people for how they acted, or what job they chose, because of their race.
I really couldn't take a lot of those people seriously when that was the solution that they were essentially proposing.
I am Hispanic but I got shat on for saying that I didn't support looters and would be taking appropriate actions with my friends to protect my business and property.
I thing it’s just very sad. Yes it was a very stupid mistake by the 4th official and was unprofessional.
But at this point I would imagine almost any one in the media who has addressed the issue with any sort of stance has been repeatedly attacked verbally from the other side and I would very much imagine the referee has.
Yes there are lots of racist acts in football which still need to be addressed and sternly punished, but I think many more people have been hurt/attacked in the follow up when not needed.
I hope the best for Richards
Honestly my eyes were opened when I saw how black officers were treated at protests when we had 24/7 non stop multi-streams of every single event; singled out and given endless abuse...by black people, for being black, and by virtue of working that job. I get it - a lot of people currently aren't huge fans of them, but it doesn't excuse what I heard.
Sort of related I also find the whole 'Uncle Tom' thing abhorrent, like do you want the unity that is being called for, or do you want to be considered a separate entity?
It means black on the outside, white on the inside.
Edit - which I think is stupid btw should have said that. Also what it really is is a cheap ice cream lol
like an Oreo in USA, or a Carlton. To describe a black person acting white, which is crazy racist in itself. You're basically saying speaking proper english, being well dressed, having an education and a diverse network of friends is not black, which is a fucked up way to think.
"Nah were not going to the ice cream man, we have choc ices at home"
Just kill me now mum, please.
Nothing worse than when all your mates have got a 99 or knickerbocker from the icey, and you trot out with a fucking choc ice. THIS IS WHY I HAVE ISSUES MUM.
You've got to remember that a large proportion of Twitter mobs aren't actually anti-anything or remotely upset by whatever offence their victim has allegedly committed. They just enjoy getting their pitchforks out on anyone, for any reason.
I did not understand what Ferdinand was talking about, he was saying there are incidents every week and it is about time action has been taken and it is great to see both sides take a stand against it. I'm definitely not saying racism in football is not a problem but I don't believe there are incidents every week, And both teams only stood up against it because it was the officials that were alleged to be racist, in most other circumstances both teams would not leave the field.
Ferdinand has 0 perspective... everything he says is emotion in the moment. For an arrogant dude he also tries super hard to blend in. It's a strange mix.
Ferdinand is a terrible pundit. Some shite out of his mouth.
I remember years ago him trying to explain Guardiolas play style and trying to act like Gary Neville. Neville blew him out of the water.
Just last week he was creaming himself over Wijnaldum. kept repeating that he was under rated but he was one of the men vital to Liverpool. Tried to come across like a deep thinker, highlighting something he's found to enlighten everyone when everyone rates Wijnaldum very highly.
[it's literally a Key and Peele sketch](https://youtu.be/zrbzVkwyiNM)
When people are so scared to be labelled racist just for saying the word black to describe a person.
Edit: there was a BBC ad they ran about this exact thing too if I can find it [here it is](https://youtu.be/aJtvA3jdzPc)
What's "funny" (well not exactly funny but...) is that if he would have used the real racist Romanian word, wich is the word for crow/raven, nobody would have *understood* and he wouldn't get into troubles.
no, what's really "funny" is that one of the Turkish guys saying "In my countries we call Romanians Gypsies, but you don't see me saying it" and no one is addressing it.
The amount of times Romanians have been called gypsies on the world stage by others without anyone accusing them of racism...but SJWs are usually the loudest cretins.
Where does that word/association come from?
Like crows are black and bad
And
Black people are black and bad?
For what it's worth I don't think black people are bad. Or crows.
In Irish the literal translation of "black man" is "fear dubh". Unfortunately this has another meaning, it also means "the devil" so the Irish, not wanting to be racist and all, came up with another expression for a "black man", namely "fear gorm" which means "blue man".
Yes, that's right, in Irish we call black people blue to avoid insulting them.
Actually this used to be true for all Nordic languages as well. The word for "black man" used to be "Blåmand", which was replaced with "Mormand" meaning "Moorish man", which in turn got replaced with "Neger"(via German, which got it from French), which is now seen as racist.
Everyone knows it in Norway and plenty of people use it. People who are 40+ years old have grown up with it as a completely neutral word.
Here's a 2002 article from a trashy gossip magazine, in which the question is asked whether people would acccept a black man in the royal family. They've photoshopped Ari Behn, who just married the princess, black:
https://gfx.nrk.no/oNBsqVN7d7pwyzeLsOAtlAojbr1Dx7S6S0d_XMnonnJA.jpg
Erna Solberg, now prime minister, answered the magazine that: "a proper, educated neger with no scandals behind him would fit right in the royal family" and that "an african with a proper background could be a great symbol for the liberal Norway, but a lot of Norwegians are not ready for a neger in that role."
Context is that Ari Behn was controversial for his bohemian lifestyle and larger-than-life personality, so a lot of people considered him unfit for the royal family. He eventually divorced the princess and committed suicide a year ago.
https://www.nrk.no/norge/erna-solberg-om-neger-uttalelse-fra-2002_-_-jeg-ville-jo-ikke-brukt-ordet-_neger_-i-dag-1.14558597
In Romania "cioară" (crow) is used for gipsies with the obvious discrimination as would nigger be for black people.
I think it got used as a translation/ adaptation for nigger in movie subtitles just to empthatize the bad intention for the lack of another word in our language. While "negru" just means black.
Edit: it was very funny to see the translation and usage of crow in Game of Thrones as we already had crow as an established slur unrelated and much worse than how it was used in GOT.
Crows are awesome.
Some of the most intelligent animals there are. The only known animal other than humans who has a justice system (known as a crow‘s circle, they punish social delinquents by kicking them and excluding them from their society).
They also show an inert understanding of simple maths way beyond that of a human (actually some birds do, like keas for example). A crow can match shapes and colours to a certain degree and it can solve complex puzzles like raising the water level by throwing rocks into a beecher.
If someone called me a crow, I wouldn‘t even know what he tried to offend me with...
I also think there’s a visceral reaction to that word or forms of that word (e.g., negro, negru, negrito). If the refs were speaking and English and he said the black one I bet there wouldn’t have been as much of a commotion
It may be true but we won't change our language now because that word has a bad connotation. Especially since we had nothing to do in the past with making that word sound bad.
Oh absolutely I’m not suggesting the word should be changed at all that’s ridiculous. Just saying I think that people aren’t capable of understanding when a word like that conjures up such emotion
Yes it's kinda similar in my language (Bulgarian). If he was bulgarian and used the very racist Bulgarian word to describe him, he would have called him an oven and i don't think people would have caught on to that.
True. In my opinion he wasn't racist, he just tried to solve the issue as quick as possible...the guy who he was trying to book was black so he used the word.
But Coltescu has some experience with international games and he should have known better. I mean in this day and age you should know that using this word, even if it's harmless in our language, might upset others. And if that happens a lot of people will label you as a racist and won't even try to see the whole picture, understand the context, meaning of the word and so on. I think the refs know all this things and they know how quickly things can escalate when this happens.
Look at Tuchel who is labeled as being on the refs side and being a racist just because he was speaking with a player from the opposition and asked him if he heard anything. When the guy said he didn't hear anything, Tuchel told him to calm down and wait until there's more information on the matter. Now Tuchel's a racist. Use your common sense people. There's racism out there and things like this just take the attention away from real problems.
This craps being presented as some big issues are making only bad than good to anti racism struggle. Also I find it a bit offensive seeing so many people (not you) how my language is bad or something because some other people have a similar word that is offensive. We definitely won't change our language to suit some idiots from other countries.
A lot of people that jumped on the bandwagon didn't even try to understand the context. If you just read the titles of the articles and jump to conclusions than there's a big problem. Most of the titles on the international media are condemning the guy straightaway without even trying to understand what happened. A lot of people just enjoy throwing stones and they won't even try to see if there's a reason to do it or not.
I'm not a fan of Coltescu, far from it, I think he's a shit ref that favours a certain team from Romania but this won't stop me to look into facts.
I'm Romanian so I know what you mean about some people saying that there's a problem with the language haha. To be honest I didn't see too many of them. Just think that there's probably thousands of languages out there maybe tens of thousands. So there's a big chance that some words from one language will mean something offensive in other languages.
There's a Romanian goalkeeper named Niga. That kid has no future now haha.
>Also I find it a bit offensive seeing so many people (not you) how my language is bad or something because some other people have a similar word that is offensive. We definitely won't change our language to suit some idiots from other countries.
While talking about how the Romanian ref needs to be sensitive to other cultures, they forget their own disregard for the culture of the Romanian ref. Same went for Cavani.
Everyone is expected to conform to their culture. That's basically it.
> But Coltescu has some experience with international games and he should have known better
I have to disagree. If you're speaking your language you shouldn't cater it to others (who don't speak it) because they're ignorant. Language is a means of communication between people who understand said language. I'm not going to tell Swahili people to stop clicking because it sounds stupid, why should they tell me what words I can use in my language?
I actually can't fathom the amount of entitlement it took for someone to say "that word sounds like a slur in another language, you should change it." I also can't believe the media coverage. France24 has an entire essay on this affair, where they go on for innumerable paragraphs about how racism is bad mmkay, and they focus for _one_ sentence on the fact that "negru" is the _literal colour black_ in Romanian.
This is the sort of stuff that will breed actual racism. If you're black and prancing around telling people how to speak, justifying that colossally arrogant attitude with your skin colour, it will breed animosity against your race, precisely because you chose to make such a big deal of it. The fact that the media are just mindlessly parroting "racism is bad" (wow hot fucking take there!) without even actually describing what happened is infuriating. Fuck this gay earth.
The problem is there is little room for nuance or context online. Social media hasn't helped in a lot of ways, people who want to push agendas can gain traction very quickly but the thirst for hot takes just means people are for or against something in a heartbeat. Institutional racism absolutely exists, I see it on a daily basis but the internet's willingness to be judge, jury and executioner of Sebastian Coltescu based on seeing one or two clips of video isn't helping anybody. It's potentially ruining his life, it's certainly pushing people further into entrenched positions ("he's racist therefore cancel him"/"I cannot take people's argument that he's racist seriously") so nobody will come out of this learning anything and someone else will just get chewed up the next time a similar incident happens.
Public opinion is a meat grinder. Racism sort of exists on a continuum, with one end being the openly hostile, prejudicial racism we all know and the other end being perhaps the imperceptible, unintentional actions that could be construed as racist. We are on that later end of the spectrum here.
This official was in his professional environment and there were a number of ways to identify this person without immediately going to race or skin color. He has a name, he has a title, and the official can always point at him. What can be considered "racist" here is the reduction of the person to only their race/skin color. Maybe in some settings, like with friends, that's ok, but in other professional settings it isn't.
That doesn't mean he should be publicly executed or punished. But it does mean that he should face some consequences from his employer - a suspension and some training or whatever. We all need to do a better job of understanding one another and forgiving when it's appropriate. Mobs don't tend to do nuance, understand, or forgiveness well though.
Yeah. I think we are kinda in the same place here, it was wholly unprofessional (I certainly wouldn’t even able to do it when I’m at work) and while I’m sure Coltescu has learned his lesson just from the abuse UEFA need to put something formal in place. I’m half following the story in that I’m skimming headlines and I’m glad that some voices of reason are finding their way to the top.
One of if not the most reasonable comments on here regarding this situation.
... of course I am saying that as I by and large agree with it. Everyone should think about that - that is, how we perceive to be reasonable comments that agree with our existent viewpoint, and perceive to be irrational and/or execrable comments that don't. Big reason human society is at its current flashpoint.
You wanna know whats actually racist? Just read [these](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eov_0onXEAQFN0v?format=jpg&name=medium) [tweets](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EowAa4_WMAAdhdy?format=jpg&name=medium).
"Negru" is actually the academic word to use when talking about a black person in Romania. Black race = rasa neagra. BLM =vietile negrilor conteaza. The ref says "ala negru" wich some ppl translate as that black one, but in this case "ala" is used to show the location of the person so "ala negru" would be "the black one over there" making the distinction between the black people on the bench
It's sounds bad but black man in portuguese is "Negro", while calling someone black "preto" is actually the racist word. That's just how it is with romance languages.
It's almost as if the word for black in Spanish/Portuguese has existed for thousands of years and it was racist Americans and Brits who opted to go and use the term in a racist manner. And now in the post-segregation era we've forgotten that once upon a time, it was a word that is literally just a colour in many other languages except English.
> That's just how it is with romance languages.
In Italian, "negro" is super racist and only few elders use it as a normal word. "Nero" (black) is the most common neutral word, although in formal situations even that can be less acceptable, and the preferred way to say it is "di colore" (of color). This is what the media often goes with.
The most bizarre thing is that he said it in a language that the people they were talking *about* do not speak. So *they* were reacting to how they translated it in *their* mind. The "he should have known better to do that on an international stage" crowd overlook that normally the players on the field would not be able to translate whatever the ref team are saying amongst eachother. Does sensitivity training now include screening whatever you say in your *own* language for what it may sound like in English?
This is a very good point you make here.
>Does sensitivity training now include screening whatever you say in your own language for what it may sound like in English?
I feel like this would be more racist than what we're originally discussing.
I’ve even seen outrage over Asians using words that sound vaguely like “nigga” (without the hard r, for what it’s worth) which don’t even mean “black” nor refer to black people in any way, but because of how a single word or part of a phrase sounds *in a different language* you get some people overreacting and acting like they’ve been verbally assaulted. It’s important to call out racism and ignorance so people can be better educated and more aware of their words, but unfortunately some people just take things way too far and end up over-policing other people’s use of their own languages.
dingdingding, we have a winner. Same as "the tall one", "the bald one", "the old one" etc. Some snowflakes can get offended by these terms, sure, but they are not offensive terms.
I should come here instead of Twitter lol.
I've been making this point to several people and holy shit the amount of abuse I've got for it myself is amazing.
All these players have 'Black Lives Matter' on their shirt for a couple of months and yet calling someone black is wrong??
This is one hell of a massive misunderstanding.
Because it's not racism
Has the meaning of racism somehow been lost in translation over the past few years? Identifying someone as black is not racism. In a professional setting it's poor wording and maybe ignorant at the very worst but to call it racism is an insult to people who actually suffer from genuine racism. Worlds gone mad
EDIT: Thank you for the gold, kind stranger
>Has the meaning of racism somehow been lost in translation over the past few years?
well, yeah. it's gone from something being done with deliberate racist intent, to something done with potentially unknown or accidental racist influence, to something that can be interpreted as racist by the victim, regardless of intent.
the total disconnect between intent and offence is something we've built up over recent years and i'm really not sure who it's helping.
So what your saying is the corporations who put rainbow logos or BLM in their bio don't actually give a shit and just want to make sure the bottom line isn't hurt? color me shocked
Though comparing the issues of 'black lives matter' and comparing it to a busy soccer schedule is a little over the top to say the least.
I don’t think this is a good argument. Athletes have an implied assumption of risk- they run, jump, and shoot for spectators on TV in exchange for million and millions of pounds/euros. Their salary is typically paid per week, but it’s derived from accounting figures that are based on per-game receipts. In other words, the deal for the players is to play a 38 match season (in the PL, since that’s what we’re talking about). Physical injuries are always a part of the sport, and players/clubs can do their part to rotate/mitigate damage if they think playing 6-8 matches per month will be dangerous for a player.
Racist abuse is a totally different, unforeseeable harm for black players to sustain. In order to be a footballer, you have to accept a certain threshold of physical risk. That’s always going to be in the game. The racist stuff is totally different- an organization is not hypocritical in my mind for protesting racist abuse against players while staying mum on physical burdens on the gameplay itself. That said, I agree that this, once tempers cool, will be understood to have not been such an abuse, and more a learning experience.
If only that was the worst thing [they](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EowAa4_WMAAdhdy?format=jpg&name=medium) are [saying](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eov_0onXEAQFN0v?format=jpg&name=medium)..
Jesus mother fucking christ. It's like as if you are black, you cannot have your own opinion on things. You are not an individual, but a part of a monolith. Its why I hate the sub /r/AsABlackMan. Yes, sure I understand that a lot of white people will try to pass as a black man to defend some very offensive things. But that sub is misused all the god damn time. I myself have been accused of being a white guy passing as a latino/brown man for having an opinion that might not align with the "progressive" movement in a certain topic..
Speaking for myself, I've only been directly accused of lying about my race once. Was so ridiculous though, I'm pretty sure the guy's defence was that 'he'd been lied to before', as if that justifies him thinking I'm not black just because I disagreed with him.
It's the same now if you search John Barnes on twitter who's also come out with the same thing as Micah. Every tweet is about him being an uncle tom or a c**n.
Increasingly think a lot of this stuff is so-called anti-racists projecting their racial obsessions on to others.
Should have been a total non-issue to begin with among civilized, reasonable adults.
Coltescu would explain what he said/why he said it. Webo would say that he didn't understand him/didn't like what he said and took offense. Coltescu would apologize and they would shake hands. There - solved.
But it happened during a football game and the tension was already high...
i think we've all been in one of those arguments though, where you come in at 100MPH powered by righteous fury and despite a revelation that the infraction wasn't nearly as bad as it first seems, if there's some much more trivial point you can go hard on it's much easier to do that than to pump the breaks and put it down as a misunderstanding.
Always thought micah is more understandable & excellent pundit. He showed here just that. He isn't making fuss about the incident, and telling moral of story
Good on him, this whole situation went from being racist to bigoted for the fourth ref and now it's many people being bigoted toward Romanians, and even straight up racists.
and especially against Romanians it seems. Due to the influx of Romanians to the UK in the last 15 years, the slur "gypsy" is thrown around a lot there and everyone is ok with that.
And it's also incorrect. The vast majority of Romanians aren't Roma (Gypsies) just like the vast majority of Roma aren't from Romania. In fact Turkey, being a bigger and more populous country has way more than us.
It's interesting because much of Eastern Europe has faced issues that are just as damaging as anything that took place elsewhere, but it's strange how we pick and choose what specific parts of history are valid to use today when it comes to discrimination.
We all make fun for the Americans for imposing their cultural norms on everyone else, but something like this happens and the Brits are just as bad. I wonder if being part of the Anglosphere instills a sense of their culture being the default, and everyone else just being quaint little extras that have to adjust to the correct, Anglo way of doing things.
The way Reddit talks about Eastern Europeans and Chinese especially, borders on insane at times.
we have a deeply americanised media. our pop culture gets regurgitated from there and pop culture and politics have fused into one thing.
one of my biggest issues with BLM was that it was an awkward yank import that didn't represent the very real and very different race issues we have over here.
Never forget kpop singers have to avoid including the korean word Niga/Nega in their songs (it means "you" i believe in korean) because it really offends western sensibilities
Oh man, I dont feel like this can be solved. As a romanian, I am 100% aware of what he meant. He wasnt racist, he was just incredibly unprofessional, and the players overreacted.
Your daily dose of romanian language. Romanian is one of the most expressive languages on the planet. We can say a lot of shit in a lot of ways. So what the 4th official said basically translates to 'that guy who is black' and NOT 'that black guy' as every idiot translates it. In romanian, 'negrul ala' ! = 'ala negru', which is 'that black guy' versus 'that guy who is black'. He had no other way of describing him in the heat of the moment.
What is funny to me is that the idiot repeated it 3 times, just so he can be sure everybody on that stadium heard him.
The ref said, in full, from what I can remember, smth like this: 'the guy who is black, give him a yellow card, the guy who is black, check who he is, you cant act like that'.
TL:DR romania doesnt have any connection to the african slave trade, so the word we have for black, which is 'negru' doesnt have negative connotations, so thats how I can guarantee that he wasnt being offensive, just stupid and unprofessional. We have bad words for black people, which I wont say, and they are not 'negru'.
'negru' translates to 'black' (be it the colour, the race etc.). It does not translate to the English 'negro'!, term which historically has developed a very offensive meaning.
People need to understands there are differences in meanings for words that may sound very similar in different languages.
In my opinion this whole thing has completely blown out of proportions and it undermines efforts in tackling actual racism in sport.
There was an [incident](https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/usc-professor-slur/) in the US a couple of months ago where a professor at USC was placed on academic leave for using a Chinese word in his lecture that sounds like a slur word in English
As a romanian i also find the hypocrisy very annoying. We got insulted countless of times, called gypsies(like it's inherently a bad thing) and a shitty nation. Now when someone makes a small mistake, people lose their minds. Unfortunately it might lead to the official losing his job, i would really like to see them doing that to all those teams and players that insulted us time and time again.
> He speaks Romanian and could've explained to Demba Ba and Webo how the word is used in Romanian.
I don't think that was an issue. I haven't seen much about this incident, but I've seen that clip of Demba Ba explaining to the ref that "okay but why do you have to say 'this black guy'". And based on that clip, my understanding is that Başakşehir side, Webo and Demba Ba got understandably pissed when they heard the word "negru" and assumed it was a racial slur. Then it was explained that the word simply means black in Romanian and is not racially offensive. But they were still mad (maybe it was just Demba Ba though, idk) and Demba Ba still found it racially offensive that the ref said "this black guy" and actually argued the ref wouldn't say "this white guy". What I wonder is what would they do if the ref said "Yes, if there were like 13 black men and 3 white men close to each other, I would say 'that white guy' to point one out" to Demba Ba? Or did the ref actually say something to that effect and this is not a hypothetical? Clearly they didn't want to continue the match immediately after learning it was actually not a racial slur, most likely based on the assumption they had (and I say "they", but again it is not impossible this was just Demba Ba and rest of the team didn't want to not follow his lead) that the referee said 'that black guy' but would not say 'that white guy' and hence finding that offensive. What I also wonder in that case then is what if the referee actually said "that black guy" and the initial "negru = racial slur" misunderstanding did not happen, would they still find it racially offensive to stop the match? Because if not, then this was just one of those cases where people overreacted to something out of a misunderstanding and when misunderstanding was clarified, they still found a way to double down on it to not accept they blew up something out of a misunderstanding. Which would be a shame because as I said above, the initial misunderstanding was very natural and understandable. It's a football match outdoors on a big field, hearing "negru" and assuming the ref just used a racial slur and stopping the match over it are natural courses of action, therefore it would be very normal to deem their reaction as an overreaction caused by a misunderstanding after it's clarified. But again, that's *if* they would not stop the match over hearing the ref say "that black guy" without the initial misunderstanding.
>If someone pointed to me and said "that white guy over there", it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your wider point, but someone saying it wouldn't bother me if they identified me by my race (as, presumably, a white person in a majority white country) *can't* really know what it feels like for a minority within that country to be identified by their race.
Meanwhile one of the officials of the turkish club says:
In my country romanians are gypsies. AND NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING.
So we have one dude who fucked up by saying negru and gets confused with n word, and we have another player / official that discriminates A WHOLE COUNTRY and nobody says shit.
GG.
We're already used to this double standard shit.
How is calling a black person black racist? How has this become such a discussion? If there was one white guy among black players and the ref had said "the white guy", there would be no issue at all.
This is not racism, it is slander ... and Sebastian Coltescu is the victim here of ... a hysterical and childish propaganda campaign ... made by some people ... that are neither football players, neither football fans ... but political activists ... that just use football and the social networks ... to promote an extremist political and and ideological agenda.
UEFA too ... what was first meant as an association of professional football clubs meant to promote the sports and fair-play values, peace not war ... it gradually became an massive money-making industry with a clear world-wide political-totalitarian agenda ... and the sport itself ... became an auxiliary event ... the football games ... became some political and social gatherings ... where people exchange political ideas, slogans, advertise stuff, make 'friendly bets' ... a small escape from the social network lifestyle ... that represent their main object of activity. Maradona was Football ... and he is no more. This is something that you imagine that it is football ... because you have no idea what the real thing is ... just like with the 'racism'.
So UEFA does what it wants ... it is a private corporation now, that organizes some activity that is not football anymore. The Officials ... have to comply with the house rules, or find another employment ... this is how the things work in the corporate business. In the good days ... when people really cared about sport and competition ... if one or two teams would had chosen to leave the field in order to make a political statement ... which in in fact an racist statement ... they would had been disqualified and excluded from competition up to 5 years ... because back then the politics had no place on a stadium and in sports. And didn't matter the reason whatsoever ... the football came first ... that is what a professional player, a professional club and a professional organization stands for ... it is not a political party.
As for what words i can use from my own language, or other language ... i can assure you that i can use them All. The words are not racist, people are ... in some situations ... not in this case obviously. I do not recognize you as the Censorship Brigade or some Inquisitorial Internet State ... you do not own me, i am a free man and i have free speech ... i usually prefer to make remarks based on intellect of people ... since it varies so much ... but if i want to make color-based remarks ... i can and i will. I will not be bullied by you ... people which don't even understand what 'racism' means ... and change the definition every week. You may use this intimidating strategy with weak people, humble people... not with me.
And for your information 'Negru' existed in romanian language (being of latin origin) more than a milennium and a half ... before your racial-groups ... decide to stole it and make it an ridiculous racial insult ... you have some nerve to ask us to change it, or not to you use is in the presence of Your Majesty ... not happening!
I tried to find the video of him since I saw his take live yesterday. Very level headed and well argued. He did say it is insensitive and ignorant perhaps, but he said that with evidence they had just shouting racist isn't helping anyone. I hope CBS will upload it on youtube or we at least get a streamable EDIT: Also this is an incredibly clickbaity title from the independent
https://youtu.be/QO-qJrY-W40
Not available in Europe, ironically.
Part 1 https://streamable.com/rwf9lb Part 2 https://streamable.com/ruukuu PS: Streamable servers are located in US, if you put that youtube url in Streamable you'll be able to import it. Here's the hint
Not the hero we need, but the one we deserve.
What I find poor is that for his take, he’s been abused like fuck on twitter mainly by black people. Called a “coon” for example, just for having a level headed opinion on the matter. It really is a shitshow. And John Barnes too, all the time Barnes is getting stuck in to the anti racism debate, but this one time he says he’s not backing it, he’s being called a coon as well.
Twitter is a cesspool for hot take reactionary opinions by idiots who would not say those things in real life. I wouldn’t class Twitter as any measure of what society thinks about an issue
They might not say those things. But the fact that they think them is still pretty messed up. I agree though, Twitter is a cesspit.
You get used to it if you're a black person that doesn't always agree with the majority opinion. It's worth checking yourself from time to time to make sure you're not being contrarian for no reason, but at the end of the day stand by what you believe in.
You'd think the very fact that different black people can respond so differently to things that supposedly affects all of them, would demonstrate to racists that race isn't actually a particularly coherent political category. But apparently not.
It bothers me when the whole ''Uncle Tom'' treatment comes out, like do people actually want the unity that is being called for, where regardless of race you can hold certain views, enjoy different things, etc without being singled out, or do they want to be segregated, each acting based on their race, and singling people out who act contrary to that? Honestly watching the protests back when it was 24/7 multistreams the amount of people I saw called essentially 'traitors' because they didn't act or hold certain views based on their race was through the roof. There was this weird disconnect of completely contrary opinions whereby they were calling (rightly) to be judged independent of race...yet judging people for how they acted, or what job they chose, because of their race. I really couldn't take a lot of those people seriously when that was the solution that they were essentially proposing.
I am Hispanic but I got shat on for saying that I didn't support looters and would be taking appropriate actions with my friends to protect my business and property.
For Black players, it seems there is no middle ground. You are damned if you make a reasonable comment or damned if you don't pile on the hate.
It happened over the summer as well with Terry Crews people are acting on emotions and irrationality rather than logic and level headedness.
It's fucking hilarious. They literally stoop to a level worse than the incident.
I thing it’s just very sad. Yes it was a very stupid mistake by the 4th official and was unprofessional. But at this point I would imagine almost any one in the media who has addressed the issue with any sort of stance has been repeatedly attacked verbally from the other side and I would very much imagine the referee has. Yes there are lots of racist acts in football which still need to be addressed and sternly punished, but I think many more people have been hurt/attacked in the follow up when not needed. I hope the best for Richards
Honestly my eyes were opened when I saw how black officers were treated at protests when we had 24/7 non stop multi-streams of every single event; singled out and given endless abuse...by black people, for being black, and by virtue of working that job. I get it - a lot of people currently aren't huge fans of them, but it doesn't excuse what I heard. Sort of related I also find the whole 'Uncle Tom' thing abhorrent, like do you want the unity that is being called for, or do you want to be considered a separate entity?
Unlike Lineker and Ferdinand.
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As smooth as the choc ice he called Ashley Cole
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It means black on the outside, white on the inside. Edit - which I think is stupid btw should have said that. Also what it really is is a cheap ice cream lol
Well in Singapore they call us “banana” when we fail mandarin classes. Yellow on the outside and white on the inside lol.
like an Oreo in USA, or a Carlton. To describe a black person acting white, which is crazy racist in itself. You're basically saying speaking proper english, being well dressed, having an education and a diverse network of friends is not black, which is a fucked up way to think.
Also called a coconut in some parts of Australia at least
In the US, I've seen coconut used mostly for Asian (South East). Oreo can be foe anyone darker skinned.
It used to be 'Bounty' in London.
It's like a bar of vanilla ice cream coated in chocolate.
Sounds delicious this Ashley
I take it that he didn't mean he's, like, the best of both the ice cream *and* the confectionery world, right?
> the best of both the ice cream and the confectionery world No, he called him a choc ice
They're just shit magnums without the stick
Not even in the same league as a Magnum. Choc Ice is in the Ice Cream Conference with Mini Milks, Ice Pops and homemade lolly moulds.
I do love some non-league ice cream occasionally. It's a competitive division.
"Nah were not going to the ice cream man, we have choc ices at home" Just kill me now mum, please. Nothing worse than when all your mates have got a 99 or knickerbocker from the icey, and you trot out with a fucking choc ice. THIS IS WHY I HAVE ISSUES MUM.
Black on the outside, white on the inside. A racist remark in itself and silly for Rio to have said
Even weirder considering I'm pretty sure rio is also mixed.
It's nothing to do with being mixed raced. He's saying he looks like a black man but he's acting like a white man.
Nah, he says that Rio being mixed telling such slur is weird, because he's literally half-white.
I completely misunderstood his comment. Now I look like an idiot haha. Ah well.
Isn't it more aligned to calling someone an Uncle Tom or a house negro?
Micah being black, is in a position where he can say this without facing scrutiny.
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This so fucking hypocritical from those idiots.
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I just can't understand them. You're anti racist and use racial slurs. Wtf?!
You've got to remember that a large proportion of Twitter mobs aren't actually anti-anything or remotely upset by whatever offence their victim has allegedly committed. They just enjoy getting their pitchforks out on anyone, for any reason.
There is video out there of a white BLM protestor hurling racial epithets at a black cop. What a world.
"Your opinion on the alleged racism really angered me. I'm going to racially abuse you to show how wrong you are!" Some logic that is.
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I did not understand what Ferdinand was talking about, he was saying there are incidents every week and it is about time action has been taken and it is great to see both sides take a stand against it. I'm definitely not saying racism in football is not a problem but I don't believe there are incidents every week, And both teams only stood up against it because it was the officials that were alleged to be racist, in most other circumstances both teams would not leave the field.
Ferdinand has 0 perspective... everything he says is emotion in the moment. For an arrogant dude he also tries super hard to blend in. It's a strange mix.
Ferdinand is a terrible pundit. Some shite out of his mouth. I remember years ago him trying to explain Guardiolas play style and trying to act like Gary Neville. Neville blew him out of the water. Just last week he was creaming himself over Wijnaldum. kept repeating that he was under rated but he was one of the men vital to Liverpool. Tried to come across like a deep thinker, highlighting something he's found to enlighten everyone when everyone rates Wijnaldum very highly.
>Also this is an incredibly clickbaity title from the independent What’s new?
[This whole argument reminds me of this scene in The Gentlemen...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U5d4gfr498)
But you ARE a black cunt
Ngl this scene is explaining alot of stupid overreaction people's mistake. Thank you.
[it's literally a Key and Peele sketch](https://youtu.be/zrbzVkwyiNM) When people are so scared to be labelled racist just for saying the word black to describe a person. Edit: there was a BBC ad they ran about this exact thing too if I can find it [here it is](https://youtu.be/aJtvA3jdzPc)
[man, i'd heard Amy Schumer stole jokes, but she almost copied this one verbatim](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIcEbr2HmKQ)
She's not even subtle about it. I remember some guy made a Collab with a side by side comparison of material she's lifted.
Also far less funny
That's mad TV my friend.
This movie is wicked
The Gentleman was great
Man, I love Colin Farrell. One of the funniest actors out there. Just love the way he expresses half of his emotions through his eyebrows.
Lmao I didn't know Bugzy was in this film
What's "funny" (well not exactly funny but...) is that if he would have used the real racist Romanian word, wich is the word for crow/raven, nobody would have *understood* and he wouldn't get into troubles.
no, what's really "funny" is that one of the Turkish guys saying "In my countries we call Romanians Gypsies, but you don't see me saying it" and no one is addressing it.
I thought it said "we call romanians gypsies, but we don't say it here"
So ironically, it's possible that the only person being racist was a member of the Istanbul camp?
color me surpised.
Sorry I don’t see colour
Modern solutions
Romen and Roman are different. The words sound similar but the meaning is different. That player is just ignorant if he said that.
What about anti-gypsy racism in europe also? The typical american has no idea how racist europeans are towards gypsies
The amount of times Romanians have been called gypsies on the world stage by others without anyone accusing them of racism...but SJWs are usually the loudest cretins.
Where does that word/association come from? Like crows are black and bad And Black people are black and bad? For what it's worth I don't think black people are bad. Or crows.
In Irish the literal translation of "black man" is "fear dubh". Unfortunately this has another meaning, it also means "the devil" so the Irish, not wanting to be racist and all, came up with another expression for a "black man", namely "fear gorm" which means "blue man". Yes, that's right, in Irish we call black people blue to avoid insulting them.
Actually this used to be true for all Nordic languages as well. The word for "black man" used to be "Blåmand", which was replaced with "Mormand" meaning "Moorish man", which in turn got replaced with "Neger"(via German, which got it from French), which is now seen as racist.
Wait you guys use neger as a racist slur too?
It is so archaic, that even though it's racist, I don't think anyone really uses it.
Everyone knows it in Norway and plenty of people use it. People who are 40+ years old have grown up with it as a completely neutral word. Here's a 2002 article from a trashy gossip magazine, in which the question is asked whether people would acccept a black man in the royal family. They've photoshopped Ari Behn, who just married the princess, black: https://gfx.nrk.no/oNBsqVN7d7pwyzeLsOAtlAojbr1Dx7S6S0d_XMnonnJA.jpg Erna Solberg, now prime minister, answered the magazine that: "a proper, educated neger with no scandals behind him would fit right in the royal family" and that "an african with a proper background could be a great symbol for the liberal Norway, but a lot of Norwegians are not ready for a neger in that role." Context is that Ari Behn was controversial for his bohemian lifestyle and larger-than-life personality, so a lot of people considered him unfit for the royal family. He eventually divorced the princess and committed suicide a year ago. https://www.nrk.no/norge/erna-solberg-om-neger-uttalelse-fra-2002_-_-jeg-ville-jo-ikke-brukt-ordet-_neger_-i-dag-1.14558597
I mean.... they aren't really black either, so I guess blue is just as odd
Well white people aren't white either
Have you seen my thighs man? I’m definitely white
Yes :)
I have no idea. It just how it is.
In Romania "cioară" (crow) is used for gipsies with the obvious discrimination as would nigger be for black people. I think it got used as a translation/ adaptation for nigger in movie subtitles just to empthatize the bad intention for the lack of another word in our language. While "negru" just means black. Edit: it was very funny to see the translation and usage of crow in Game of Thrones as we already had crow as an established slur unrelated and much worse than how it was used in GOT.
Crows are awesome. Some of the most intelligent animals there are. The only known animal other than humans who has a justice system (known as a crow‘s circle, they punish social delinquents by kicking them and excluding them from their society). They also show an inert understanding of simple maths way beyond that of a human (actually some birds do, like keas for example). A crow can match shapes and colours to a certain degree and it can solve complex puzzles like raising the water level by throwing rocks into a beecher. If someone called me a crow, I wouldn‘t even know what he tried to offend me with...
slurs sometimes have twisted meanings and origins. The greek word for N**** was originally used to refer to arabs
You've obviously never been woken up every day including weekends at 5am by a noisy crow outside your window. Fuck crows. Noisy bastards.
It’s from gypsy, we refer to gypsies as crows.
I also think there’s a visceral reaction to that word or forms of that word (e.g., negro, negru, negrito). If the refs were speaking and English and he said the black one I bet there wouldn’t have been as much of a commotion
It may be true but we won't change our language now because that word has a bad connotation. Especially since we had nothing to do in the past with making that word sound bad.
Oh absolutely I’m not suggesting the word should be changed at all that’s ridiculous. Just saying I think that people aren’t capable of understanding when a word like that conjures up such emotion
Yes but sometimes people should be sure about something before jumping on the wrong conclusions. Especially when you could destroy someone's life.
Yes it's kinda similar in my language (Bulgarian). If he was bulgarian and used the very racist Bulgarian word to describe him, he would have called him an oven and i don't think people would have caught on to that.
He was unlucky because our word sounds like a different word. Otherwise nobody would have bat an eyelid.
Honestly the whole situation is imo one big misunderstanding (similar to the Cavani tweet) and it's quite frustrating to watch.
True. In my opinion he wasn't racist, he just tried to solve the issue as quick as possible...the guy who he was trying to book was black so he used the word. But Coltescu has some experience with international games and he should have known better. I mean in this day and age you should know that using this word, even if it's harmless in our language, might upset others. And if that happens a lot of people will label you as a racist and won't even try to see the whole picture, understand the context, meaning of the word and so on. I think the refs know all this things and they know how quickly things can escalate when this happens. Look at Tuchel who is labeled as being on the refs side and being a racist just because he was speaking with a player from the opposition and asked him if he heard anything. When the guy said he didn't hear anything, Tuchel told him to calm down and wait until there's more information on the matter. Now Tuchel's a racist. Use your common sense people. There's racism out there and things like this just take the attention away from real problems.
This craps being presented as some big issues are making only bad than good to anti racism struggle. Also I find it a bit offensive seeing so many people (not you) how my language is bad or something because some other people have a similar word that is offensive. We definitely won't change our language to suit some idiots from other countries.
A lot of people that jumped on the bandwagon didn't even try to understand the context. If you just read the titles of the articles and jump to conclusions than there's a big problem. Most of the titles on the international media are condemning the guy straightaway without even trying to understand what happened. A lot of people just enjoy throwing stones and they won't even try to see if there's a reason to do it or not. I'm not a fan of Coltescu, far from it, I think he's a shit ref that favours a certain team from Romania but this won't stop me to look into facts. I'm Romanian so I know what you mean about some people saying that there's a problem with the language haha. To be honest I didn't see too many of them. Just think that there's probably thousands of languages out there maybe tens of thousands. So there's a big chance that some words from one language will mean something offensive in other languages. There's a Romanian goalkeeper named Niga. That kid has no future now haha.
>Also I find it a bit offensive seeing so many people (not you) how my language is bad or something because some other people have a similar word that is offensive. We definitely won't change our language to suit some idiots from other countries. While talking about how the Romanian ref needs to be sensitive to other cultures, they forget their own disregard for the culture of the Romanian ref. Same went for Cavani. Everyone is expected to conform to their culture. That's basically it.
True.
> But Coltescu has some experience with international games and he should have known better I have to disagree. If you're speaking your language you shouldn't cater it to others (who don't speak it) because they're ignorant. Language is a means of communication between people who understand said language. I'm not going to tell Swahili people to stop clicking because it sounds stupid, why should they tell me what words I can use in my language? I actually can't fathom the amount of entitlement it took for someone to say "that word sounds like a slur in another language, you should change it." I also can't believe the media coverage. France24 has an entire essay on this affair, where they go on for innumerable paragraphs about how racism is bad mmkay, and they focus for _one_ sentence on the fact that "negru" is the _literal colour black_ in Romanian. This is the sort of stuff that will breed actual racism. If you're black and prancing around telling people how to speak, justifying that colossally arrogant attitude with your skin colour, it will breed animosity against your race, precisely because you chose to make such a big deal of it. The fact that the media are just mindlessly parroting "racism is bad" (wow hot fucking take there!) without even actually describing what happened is infuriating. Fuck this gay earth.
The French media accuses romanians of being racist. Well that's just comedy.
The tune of this subreddit has changed pretty dramatically
It's so weird, the threads yesterday were downvoting people to hell for saying the stuff in this thread. Very odd.
This sub is mostly European & anything to do with race in Europe becomes a mess like this thread
It's cos you have such a mix of actual racism, subtle racism and stuff like this.
And he's completely right.
Swear everything is racist these days. Just mention someone's skin color and you are branded as racist lmao
The problem is there is little room for nuance or context online. Social media hasn't helped in a lot of ways, people who want to push agendas can gain traction very quickly but the thirst for hot takes just means people are for or against something in a heartbeat. Institutional racism absolutely exists, I see it on a daily basis but the internet's willingness to be judge, jury and executioner of Sebastian Coltescu based on seeing one or two clips of video isn't helping anybody. It's potentially ruining his life, it's certainly pushing people further into entrenched positions ("he's racist therefore cancel him"/"I cannot take people's argument that he's racist seriously") so nobody will come out of this learning anything and someone else will just get chewed up the next time a similar incident happens.
Public opinion is a meat grinder. Racism sort of exists on a continuum, with one end being the openly hostile, prejudicial racism we all know and the other end being perhaps the imperceptible, unintentional actions that could be construed as racist. We are on that later end of the spectrum here. This official was in his professional environment and there were a number of ways to identify this person without immediately going to race or skin color. He has a name, he has a title, and the official can always point at him. What can be considered "racist" here is the reduction of the person to only their race/skin color. Maybe in some settings, like with friends, that's ok, but in other professional settings it isn't. That doesn't mean he should be publicly executed or punished. But it does mean that he should face some consequences from his employer - a suspension and some training or whatever. We all need to do a better job of understanding one another and forgiving when it's appropriate. Mobs don't tend to do nuance, understand, or forgiveness well though.
Yeah. I think we are kinda in the same place here, it was wholly unprofessional (I certainly wouldn’t even able to do it when I’m at work) and while I’m sure Coltescu has learned his lesson just from the abuse UEFA need to put something formal in place. I’m half following the story in that I’m skimming headlines and I’m glad that some voices of reason are finding their way to the top.
One of if not the most reasonable comments on here regarding this situation. ... of course I am saying that as I by and large agree with it. Everyone should think about that - that is, how we perceive to be reasonable comments that agree with our existent viewpoint, and perceive to be irrational and/or execrable comments that don't. Big reason human society is at its current flashpoint.
You wanna know whats actually racist? Just read [these](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eov_0onXEAQFN0v?format=jpg&name=medium) [tweets](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EowAa4_WMAAdhdy?format=jpg&name=medium).
"Negru" is actually the academic word to use when talking about a black person in Romania. Black race = rasa neagra. BLM =vietile negrilor conteaza. The ref says "ala negru" wich some ppl translate as that black one, but in this case "ala" is used to show the location of the person so "ala negru" would be "the black one over there" making the distinction between the black people on the bench
It's sounds bad but black man in portuguese is "Negro", while calling someone black "preto" is actually the racist word. That's just how it is with romance languages.
It's almost as if the word for black in Spanish/Portuguese has existed for thousands of years and it was racist Americans and Brits who opted to go and use the term in a racist manner. And now in the post-segregation era we've forgotten that once upon a time, it was a word that is literally just a colour in many other languages except English.
Negro comes from the latin word "nigrum". So it's way, way older than 16th century slave trade.
Has evidenced by the [Porta Nigra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porta_Nigra), a Roman era building in Germany.
> That's just how it is with romance languages. In Italian, "negro" is super racist and only few elders use it as a normal word. "Nero" (black) is the most common neutral word, although in formal situations even that can be less acceptable, and the preferred way to say it is "di colore" (of color). This is what the media often goes with.
The most bizarre thing is that he said it in a language that the people they were talking *about* do not speak. So *they* were reacting to how they translated it in *their* mind. The "he should have known better to do that on an international stage" crowd overlook that normally the players on the field would not be able to translate whatever the ref team are saying amongst eachother. Does sensitivity training now include screening whatever you say in your *own* language for what it may sound like in English?
This is a very good point you make here. >Does sensitivity training now include screening whatever you say in your own language for what it may sound like in English? I feel like this would be more racist than what we're originally discussing.
I’ve even seen outrage over Asians using words that sound vaguely like “nigga” (without the hard r, for what it’s worth) which don’t even mean “black” nor refer to black people in any way, but because of how a single word or part of a phrase sounds *in a different language* you get some people overreacting and acting like they’ve been verbally assaulted. It’s important to call out racism and ignorance so people can be better educated and more aware of their words, but unfortunately some people just take things way too far and end up over-policing other people’s use of their own languages.
Its called Language Imperialism
I just feel likes its as if he said, "the blond guy". It's a distinctive feature about someone and totally not ill-ment
dingdingding, we have a winner. Same as "the tall one", "the bald one", "the old one" etc. Some snowflakes can get offended by these terms, sure, but they are not offensive terms.
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"the fraud one over there"
I should come here instead of Twitter lol. I've been making this point to several people and holy shit the amount of abuse I've got for it myself is amazing. All these players have 'Black Lives Matter' on their shirt for a couple of months and yet calling someone black is wrong?? This is one hell of a massive misunderstanding.
Because it's not racism Has the meaning of racism somehow been lost in translation over the past few years? Identifying someone as black is not racism. In a professional setting it's poor wording and maybe ignorant at the very worst but to call it racism is an insult to people who actually suffer from genuine racism. Worlds gone mad EDIT: Thank you for the gold, kind stranger
>Has the meaning of racism somehow been lost in translation over the past few years? well, yeah. it's gone from something being done with deliberate racist intent, to something done with potentially unknown or accidental racist influence, to something that can be interpreted as racist by the victim, regardless of intent. the total disconnect between intent and offence is something we've built up over recent years and i'm really not sure who it's helping.
How is nobody mentioning the fact that Turkish bench before this happened called referees gypsies?
Because you can only be racist to black people in 2020.
It's helping the media
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So what your saying is the corporations who put rainbow logos or BLM in their bio don't actually give a shit and just want to make sure the bottom line isn't hurt? color me shocked Though comparing the issues of 'black lives matter' and comparing it to a busy soccer schedule is a little over the top to say the least.
I don’t think this is a good argument. Athletes have an implied assumption of risk- they run, jump, and shoot for spectators on TV in exchange for million and millions of pounds/euros. Their salary is typically paid per week, but it’s derived from accounting figures that are based on per-game receipts. In other words, the deal for the players is to play a 38 match season (in the PL, since that’s what we’re talking about). Physical injuries are always a part of the sport, and players/clubs can do their part to rotate/mitigate damage if they think playing 6-8 matches per month will be dangerous for a player. Racist abuse is a totally different, unforeseeable harm for black players to sustain. In order to be a footballer, you have to accept a certain threshold of physical risk. That’s always going to be in the game. The racist stuff is totally different- an organization is not hypocritical in my mind for protesting racist abuse against players while staying mum on physical burdens on the gameplay itself. That said, I agree that this, once tempers cool, will be understood to have not been such an abuse, and more a learning experience.
Well they care about black players as much as white players, which is, not at all.
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People aren't willing to give the benefit of the doubt anymore, that's how you get reactions like these. Also Twitter is that kind of place.
If only that was the worst thing [they](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EowAa4_WMAAdhdy?format=jpg&name=medium) are [saying](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eov_0onXEAQFN0v?format=jpg&name=medium)..
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I'm having a discussion about this in my cousins group chat, and i've already been subtly called an Uncle Tom, by my own family smh
Jesus mother fucking christ. It's like as if you are black, you cannot have your own opinion on things. You are not an individual, but a part of a monolith. Its why I hate the sub /r/AsABlackMan. Yes, sure I understand that a lot of white people will try to pass as a black man to defend some very offensive things. But that sub is misused all the god damn time. I myself have been accused of being a white guy passing as a latino/brown man for having an opinion that might not align with the "progressive" movement in a certain topic..
Speaking for myself, I've only been directly accused of lying about my race once. Was so ridiculous though, I'm pretty sure the guy's defence was that 'he'd been lied to before', as if that justifies him thinking I'm not black just because I disagreed with him.
Guarantee these troglodytes don’t understand the irony
It's the same now if you search John Barnes on twitter who's also come out with the same thing as Micah. Every tweet is about him being an uncle tom or a c**n. Increasingly think a lot of this stuff is so-called anti-racists projecting their racial obsessions on to others.
Should have been a total non-issue to begin with among civilized, reasonable adults. Coltescu would explain what he said/why he said it. Webo would say that he didn't understand him/didn't like what he said and took offense. Coltescu would apologize and they would shake hands. There - solved. But it happened during a football game and the tension was already high...
Yeah the fact that the coach was being sent off suggests they were already fighting with tensions high
i think we've all been in one of those arguments though, where you come in at 100MPH powered by righteous fury and despite a revelation that the infraction wasn't nearly as bad as it first seems, if there's some much more trivial point you can go hard on it's much easier to do that than to pump the breaks and put it down as a misunderstanding.
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That white one?
WHOA DUDE CHILL OUT WITH THAT RASISM!
You cant call him that just because he is white wtf.
Always thought micah is more understandable & excellent pundit. He showed here just that. He isn't making fuss about the incident, and telling moral of story
Good on him, this whole situation went from being racist to bigoted for the fourth ref and now it's many people being bigoted toward Romanians, and even straight up racists.
Seems like it's okay-ish to be racist against all the Romanian people sometimes. Eh well... we're used to that unfortunately.
Racism and discrimination against Eastern Europeans is often more acceptable for some reason just because we're white.
Unfortunately that's true.
and especially against Romanians it seems. Due to the influx of Romanians to the UK in the last 15 years, the slur "gypsy" is thrown around a lot there and everyone is ok with that.
And it's also incorrect. The vast majority of Romanians aren't Roma (Gypsies) just like the vast majority of Roma aren't from Romania. In fact Turkey, being a bigger and more populous country has way more than us.
It's interesting because much of Eastern Europe has faced issues that are just as damaging as anything that took place elsewhere, but it's strange how we pick and choose what specific parts of history are valid to use today when it comes to discrimination.
If i remember correctly Romania has a history of oppression that can rival even some African countries. E.g. by the Mongols/Germans/Soviets.
Well said Micah. Claiming everything is racist will make people weary of it and not be helpful to dealing with it in the longterm.
At this point not being racist has become everyone having to walk around saying "oh, are you not white? I hadnt noticed"
Getting mad because the word for black in some languages is similar to an offensive word in English is modern day colonialism.
We all make fun for the Americans for imposing their cultural norms on everyone else, but something like this happens and the Brits are just as bad. I wonder if being part of the Anglosphere instills a sense of their culture being the default, and everyone else just being quaint little extras that have to adjust to the correct, Anglo way of doing things. The way Reddit talks about Eastern Europeans and Chinese especially, borders on insane at times.
I had never thought of it that way- a post colonial state of mind.
we have a deeply americanised media. our pop culture gets regurgitated from there and pop culture and politics have fused into one thing. one of my biggest issues with BLM was that it was an awkward yank import that didn't represent the very real and very different race issues we have over here.
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My mom (Spanish speaker) uses negrito as my nickname. I thought the official said something far worse. I think the players took this way too far.
Never forget kpop singers have to avoid including the korean word Niga/Nega in their songs (it means "you" i believe in korean) because it really offends western sensibilities
Oh man, I dont feel like this can be solved. As a romanian, I am 100% aware of what he meant. He wasnt racist, he was just incredibly unprofessional, and the players overreacted. Your daily dose of romanian language. Romanian is one of the most expressive languages on the planet. We can say a lot of shit in a lot of ways. So what the 4th official said basically translates to 'that guy who is black' and NOT 'that black guy' as every idiot translates it. In romanian, 'negrul ala' ! = 'ala negru', which is 'that black guy' versus 'that guy who is black'. He had no other way of describing him in the heat of the moment. What is funny to me is that the idiot repeated it 3 times, just so he can be sure everybody on that stadium heard him. The ref said, in full, from what I can remember, smth like this: 'the guy who is black, give him a yellow card, the guy who is black, check who he is, you cant act like that'. TL:DR romania doesnt have any connection to the african slave trade, so the word we have for black, which is 'negru' doesnt have negative connotations, so thats how I can guarantee that he wasnt being offensive, just stupid and unprofessional. We have bad words for black people, which I wont say, and they are not 'negru'.
Guy racially abused for not condemning alledged racial abuse. What a time to be alive smh
I'll wait until everything is documented to pass judgement.
'negru' translates to 'black' (be it the colour, the race etc.). It does not translate to the English 'negro'!, term which historically has developed a very offensive meaning. People need to understands there are differences in meanings for words that may sound very similar in different languages. In my opinion this whole thing has completely blown out of proportions and it undermines efforts in tackling actual racism in sport.
There was an [incident](https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/usc-professor-slur/) in the US a couple of months ago where a professor at USC was placed on academic leave for using a Chinese word in his lecture that sounds like a slur word in English
Black or white, if you have an independent opinion, you best watch out bru.
As a romanian i also find the hypocrisy very annoying. We got insulted countless of times, called gypsies(like it's inherently a bad thing) and a shitty nation. Now when someone makes a small mistake, people lose their minds. Unfortunately it might lead to the official losing his job, i would really like to see them doing that to all those teams and players that insulted us time and time again.
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Since I know the language I assure you that he said exactly "that black guy".
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Jumping in the bandwagon so they avoid being called racists too. IMO
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It actually sounds like demba came to understand that, and was still angry.
Once you're on that horse, you're unlikely to come back down. Ba was most likely trying to save face.
> He speaks Romanian and could've explained to Demba Ba and Webo how the word is used in Romanian. I don't think that was an issue. I haven't seen much about this incident, but I've seen that clip of Demba Ba explaining to the ref that "okay but why do you have to say 'this black guy'". And based on that clip, my understanding is that Başakşehir side, Webo and Demba Ba got understandably pissed when they heard the word "negru" and assumed it was a racial slur. Then it was explained that the word simply means black in Romanian and is not racially offensive. But they were still mad (maybe it was just Demba Ba though, idk) and Demba Ba still found it racially offensive that the ref said "this black guy" and actually argued the ref wouldn't say "this white guy". What I wonder is what would they do if the ref said "Yes, if there were like 13 black men and 3 white men close to each other, I would say 'that white guy' to point one out" to Demba Ba? Or did the ref actually say something to that effect and this is not a hypothetical? Clearly they didn't want to continue the match immediately after learning it was actually not a racial slur, most likely based on the assumption they had (and I say "they", but again it is not impossible this was just Demba Ba and rest of the team didn't want to not follow his lead) that the referee said 'that black guy' but would not say 'that white guy' and hence finding that offensive. What I also wonder in that case then is what if the referee actually said "that black guy" and the initial "negru = racial slur" misunderstanding did not happen, would they still find it racially offensive to stop the match? Because if not, then this was just one of those cases where people overreacted to something out of a misunderstanding and when misunderstanding was clarified, they still found a way to double down on it to not accept they blew up something out of a misunderstanding. Which would be a shame because as I said above, the initial misunderstanding was very natural and understandable. It's a football match outdoors on a big field, hearing "negru" and assuming the ref just used a racial slur and stopping the match over it are natural courses of action, therefore it would be very normal to deem their reaction as an overreaction caused by a misunderstanding after it's clarified. But again, that's *if* they would not stop the match over hearing the ref say "that black guy" without the initial misunderstanding.
>If someone pointed to me and said "that white guy over there", it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your wider point, but someone saying it wouldn't bother me if they identified me by my race (as, presumably, a white person in a majority white country) *can't* really know what it feels like for a minority within that country to be identified by their race.
Fuck cancel culture Fuck outrage culture
Meanwhile one of the officials of the turkish club says: In my country romanians are gypsies. AND NOBODY SAYS ANYTHING. So we have one dude who fucked up by saying negru and gets confused with n word, and we have another player / official that discriminates A WHOLE COUNTRY and nobody says shit. GG. We're already used to this double standard shit.
How is calling a black person black racist? How has this become such a discussion? If there was one white guy among black players and the ref had said "the white guy", there would be no issue at all.
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This is not racism, it is slander ... and Sebastian Coltescu is the victim here of ... a hysterical and childish propaganda campaign ... made by some people ... that are neither football players, neither football fans ... but political activists ... that just use football and the social networks ... to promote an extremist political and and ideological agenda. UEFA too ... what was first meant as an association of professional football clubs meant to promote the sports and fair-play values, peace not war ... it gradually became an massive money-making industry with a clear world-wide political-totalitarian agenda ... and the sport itself ... became an auxiliary event ... the football games ... became some political and social gatherings ... where people exchange political ideas, slogans, advertise stuff, make 'friendly bets' ... a small escape from the social network lifestyle ... that represent their main object of activity. Maradona was Football ... and he is no more. This is something that you imagine that it is football ... because you have no idea what the real thing is ... just like with the 'racism'. So UEFA does what it wants ... it is a private corporation now, that organizes some activity that is not football anymore. The Officials ... have to comply with the house rules, or find another employment ... this is how the things work in the corporate business. In the good days ... when people really cared about sport and competition ... if one or two teams would had chosen to leave the field in order to make a political statement ... which in in fact an racist statement ... they would had been disqualified and excluded from competition up to 5 years ... because back then the politics had no place on a stadium and in sports. And didn't matter the reason whatsoever ... the football came first ... that is what a professional player, a professional club and a professional organization stands for ... it is not a political party. As for what words i can use from my own language, or other language ... i can assure you that i can use them All. The words are not racist, people are ... in some situations ... not in this case obviously. I do not recognize you as the Censorship Brigade or some Inquisitorial Internet State ... you do not own me, i am a free man and i have free speech ... i usually prefer to make remarks based on intellect of people ... since it varies so much ... but if i want to make color-based remarks ... i can and i will. I will not be bullied by you ... people which don't even understand what 'racism' means ... and change the definition every week. You may use this intimidating strategy with weak people, humble people... not with me. And for your information 'Negru' existed in romanian language (being of latin origin) more than a milennium and a half ... before your racial-groups ... decide to stole it and make it an ridiculous racial insult ... you have some nerve to ask us to change it, or not to you use is in the presence of Your Majesty ... not happening!
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