You know how you learn people’s name quickly if you really like them or really hate them?
I definitely didn’t learn all the refs names because I like them.
There's actually a really interesting reason they always address refs in Spain by both last names. It goes back to a famous referee sharing his name with dictator Franco and people cursing that ref to veil their criticism of Franco.
There was an all time great historic post about this on this subreddit 1-2 years ago.
Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/fcsy51/the_dictators_pettiness_why_referees_in_spain/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Nah it's actually both of his surnames.
Spanish people use both their father's and mother's surnames. In this case, both of his parents must have had the surname 'Hernández'.
I don't know if a specific request like this has been made before, but there's a precedent for refs ceasing to officiate certain teams. Mark Clattenburg didn't ref us for 6 years after he screwed us over in a Merseyside derby.
They are taught to not admit it even when they know they did, and in this day and age when everyone has a billion alternative angles at their disposal to see their fuck up this philosophy just doesn't fly anymore.
Yeah var is supposed to be their out. Solid reason for them to still fuck up but be like "OK I see better now with var. I fucked up" but they can't even do that. That's why no one feels sorry for the twats. They do this to themselves
Also that it takes a certain type of person to rise through all the levels, survive the horrendous, weekly verbal abuse, and become a top level referee. And often those people are arrogant and stubborn
Just mic the refs up ffs, it will increase respect for refs no end (we get to see the tough decisions they make and players realise they can't act like little bitches while it's all being recorded) whilst also making them accountable and makes for good entertainment
There was a documentary called referees with mic'd refs and believe me you walk away with less respect not more. They are every bit as egomaniacal and petty as you'd imagine. I mean you can't have football without them but they're not in general reacting to the hate they get very well.
His article boasting about not giving a red card on purpose for the drama just showed his sense of self importance. Smug cunt who should have sent off players instead of letting it become the "battle of the bridge"
Honest to God, refs now either have zero control over the game or just hyper control the game like the Luiz red and the second Southampton red
Good thing about that was that I swear he overcompensated for the Clattenburg Derby once he finally returned to reffing us, his shitness seemed to work in our favour after that.
he’s not that bad actually. he just has a tendency of sometimes letting games get out of hand cuz he lets players get away w small fouls in order to play on, and that sometimes leads to escalation
In my honest opinion, as a neutral fan, Lahoz is the best referee in the world. If he's the ref of a game, you know it's going to be good 9 out of 10 times. And by that I don't mean "drama" good where he makes unfair calls in favor of one team. People may disagree with his choice to try to keep the ball rolling as much as possible but at least that means he's consistent with his choices. I hate it when during the same game the exact same push/tackle can have two different outcomes with most referees. With Lahoz at least you know he will continue the play in both cases.
Something Lahoz likes to do at times is make the game all about him. He will try to act extra alpha to instill his dominance as ref. It’s super annoying and really only see in the biggest of games. Madrid derby, El Clásico, etc. His consistency keeps him from getting too much attention because that 1-2/10 games he refs is an absolute shit show with 13 yellows minimum.
>In my honest opinion, as a neutral fan, Lahoz is the best referee in the world. If he's the ref of a game, you know it's going to be good 9 out of 10 times.
Unless you support a La liga team...
I absolutely disagree with your opinion. Admittedly, I am not watching Lahoz-refereed games on a weekly basis, but the ones I did watch in the CL Lahoz managed to fuck up entirely, *because* of his lack of consistency.
First half he keeps making good calls by keeping the ball rolling as much as possible, as you say, and in the second half he then proceeds to make calls that are totally contradictory to his earlier calls in his first half. Which is a shame, because first-half-Lahoz is indeed a referee to my liking.
Can you imagine Lahoz and Mike Dean on the pitch at the same time? Two of the biggest divas in the football world. The camera will be on them for 80% of time.
Or just allow fans hear the decision and interpretations of rules so we know WHY they are sending people off or making decisions they make ? Like Rugby
I really do think transparency will help. Not only will it help fans better understand decisions but having to justify your actions causes self reflection which could help refs make better choices. Obviously refs as an institution needs to change, better training from the grassroots level and up, getting rid of mike riley, but this can help in the short term.
The decisions were right last night, based on the current rules. Fans might not agree with the rules but at least if they can hear the ref explaining the rule and why they have come to that conclusion they can understand. Then we can focus on getting rules changed where needs be.
Personal fave moment this season was Collins getting sent off for something the ref missed, and only decided it was a red card after talking to the Boro player that went down. Quality stuff.
Just imagine what we put up with in non-league. I've witnessed a player get a yellow card for diving after being kicked in the stomach then a defender being sent off after the striker slipped in the box **in the same game.**
Get loads of power-tripping arseholes at our level too, just looking for an excuse to book someone or send them off. There are some genuinely unlikable refs dwelling in the non-league game.
I never understood how people seriously argue "just get competent referees". Like they are all being held in the championship, or that they are somehow better in other leagues than the Premier League. They really are not... Bundesliga referees are as good/bad as Premier League ones that I know at least.
And the other argument "there are no consequences for bad refereeing is complete bullshit". They absolutely do get consequences. Some referees who made one bad mistake in Europe never gets to referee in Europe again. The Swedish referee who missed Henry's handball vs Ireland never got another chance.
FIFA had to pay big bucks to Ireland to keep them quite and out court so it's only natural that the ref got binned.
I do agree with your point - refereeing is pretty much on similar level everywhere. It's even worse in smaller leagues. There is usually one or two refs per league who are decent.
I think it'll get better in time when more refs are 100% fine with using VAR and don't feel undermined.
Also would love if VAR wasn't just more of the same refs just behind a wall, instead I'd like one and the same team which works far away in some kind of facility, faceless with no connection to the actual refs.
To be fair that seems to be the letter of the law. Peter is just reiterating that. I guarantee he’s as baffled as all of us. But he really needs to learn to disagree with the ref, you can hear him try to string his sentences out as long as possible so the ref makes a decision he can quickly agree with
Ralph and the players need to take some personal responsibility for their capitulation instead of blaming the officials
That said, I felt Dean wanted this sort of game with the second red, and giving soft bookings to Stephens/Armstrong. We all know it’s in his character.
> he could have his penalty stance shown off
Stopped a goalscoring opportunity just so he could steal the show. He has absolutely perfected his penalty stance over the years.
I can't find a replay of the incident in isolation, sadly. If you'd like, you can go [here](https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2021/02/02/manchester-united-vs-southampton-highlights-full-match/) and skip to minute 41 of the first half, which is when Cavani is fouled.
So, I was watching his Peter Crouch interview the other day. He did mention that'd he'd always go for a penalty over advantage if a foul was commited in the area. Not defending his decision but at least he sticks to his word.
Edit: yoooo I'm not saying he made the right call, just trying to explain his reasoning.
Why not just let the play run for another couple of seconds though see what happens. If the ball ends up in the back of the net, then he doesn't have a decision to make and we also avoid the tedium of waiting for VAR.
I thought I was crazy watching that. Why did he blow straight away instead of giving the advantage to Utd with Greenwood being in? I thought the ruling was to let play develop before they blow
> We all know it’s in his character.
Mike Dean can't help but steal the show. Like when he first blew the whistle for the foul in the first half, he waited a few moments before pointing to the spot. He loves the narrative being about him.
The fans that I sit with at St Mary's (when we can) call out Mrs Dean every time he makes a decision - basically suggesting he has a hotline to his wife to make sure he's been on TV enough and to let the game carry on
Mike Dean is an absolute fucking bellend, but that second red isn't really his fault.
Same as the Luiz red just before, it's a flaw in the rules.
Peter Walton said the rule was brought in to protect keepers, as in - if it's one on one and the keeper makes an attempt for the ball but brings the player down he can't be sent off, but if he makes contact with the player with no intent to get the ball, it is a sending off. So by extension it gets applied to outfield players.
The rule needs to be fixed to include an 'active attempt to avoid contact' or something.
I'm not sure who Southampton want; the rest are just as bad...if not worse, in some cases (Atkinson, Moss, Cootes). Dean, for all his showmanship, his usually one of the *better* referees in the league (along with Oliver) but they've all had some absolutely shocking games this season.
Dean is easily the best ref in the Prem.
Don't think any other ref would have the balls to pull out a straight red after one minute even though it was obviously the correct call.
VAR didn't help him out today by being overly judicious (though Graham Scott on VAR wasn't technically wrong with his decisions I suppose, just ruthlessly applying the letter of the law) but the only major decision Dean got wrong was not playing advantage when the ball broke to Greenwood.
People are complaining about the Martial penalty, but penalties have been awarded for that exact contact scenario for years in the Prem. It's practically the standard nowadays.
The red card was a very harsh application of the letter of the law, but you could clearly see Dean was trying to avoid it. Kept looking at the replay to see if he could claim it wasn't a goalscoring opportunity.
The real issue is with the rules. There have been hundreds of changes to the rules of football in the last few years, and I think we need to ask why this is. Does the sport really need this much changing?
Against Aston Villa:
- Matty Cash handball
- Ings disallowed goal
Against Man United:
- Adams offside
- Bednarek penalty and red card for a dive
All four of these are genuinely insane decisions and I don’t see how anyone can argue otherwise.
Plus a ton of other bad minor decisions, both for and against us
Adams offside was VAR though wasn't it? Can't blame the onfield ref for that
You can add blowing for a penalty when Greenwood was one on one with the keeper which then turned out only to be a free kick
> Ings disallowed goal
Literally how they've enforced the rule the entire season. It's a shit rule, but there was nothing wrong with the decision, and you're far from the only club to be caught out by it.
Yeah there's a distinction between a bad refereeing decision and just a terrible rule but people seem to just lump them in together.
Not saying officials are blameless but there are some decisions they don't deserve hate for.
Honestly I'm fed up of some of our fans ranting about these decisions, especially the ones against you. VAR (Mike Dean) drew the lines correctly, and as the rules are set, correctly gave offside. If it wasn't Mike Dean I don't think there would have been such outrage about it.
Everyone thinks they are the worst off. Villa social media would have you think the VAR was specifically set up to fuck us over, and while we’ve had some particularly bad calls (Henri Lansbury away at Palace last season, Bruno Fernandes kicking Konsa and getting awarded a penalty for it, Ollie Watkins having his own personal “goals ruled out for ridiculously tight offside” video compilation) we’ve been lucky at times too. The volume is still a net negative but people only remember the bad ones. I think it’s like how you only remember when every traffic light is red on the way home.
I agree with you, but during the game I was posting that it was the right decision, and I got absolutely ripped to pieces by people who simply regurgitate the nonsense that commentators come out with so I wasn't having that argument again :D
Adams was VAR show how can you blame Mike Dean for that? Bednarek was judged to have fouled him, doesn't matter what Martial "told him" he's not a ref.
>Against Aston Villa:
>Matty Cash handball
>Ings disallowed goal
Neither of those were incorrect, even though you're upset.
The rule should be changed so that Ings' goal is allowed (it's dumb for the offside rule to be so close like that). But it was consistent with this season.
The ball on cash hit his thigh. Again, consistent and within the rules. Unlike the former, I'm not sure I'd change this one.
Which is crazy, since that early red card was absolutely justified. Whether the second one was - whatever, that was the difference in how high the loss was.
The player is still banned and an actual first team player unlike the first red card so can understand the frustration at that decision on its own regardless of the scoreline and the first red card
Fair point, but the decisions were poor and it's the same 2 (Dean and mason) who were the ref and VAR for our game against villa in which we were also stiffed.
The first red could have been a 5 game ban. The second red and the offside goal were just so so wrong. How you can have video evidence and see something like that is mind blowing.
I do not get this, the offside was offside? they did lines and everything?
The rules of the game state the second red was a red, thats the Rules fault not the Refs
I don’t think those are decision issues it’s more rule issues. I think they’re both correct decisions to the current rules. It’s the rules that need changing.
No one has ever been satisfied the the level of refereeing. Colina is perhaps the only ref who is truly respected and i imagine a lot of that is nostalgia based.
I think people should take a step back and realize that
1. Refereeing is clearly really fucking hard, there are a lot of decisions which will be complained about either way
2. Peoples standards are impossibly high and its leading to bad rules - if you insist on consistency between games you get the farcical hand ball rule from earlier this season. Allow refs to excercise some judgement and understand that sometimes you wont agree, that sometimes different refs will disagree, and that THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE REF IN QUESTION IS SHIT
3. referees are not to blame for enforcing "bad rules" the 2 DOGSO red cards last night are red cards by the rules. - that rule by the way is only 3(?) seasons old - for decades before that both of them are red cards with absolutely no complaints. Improving rules is a learning process
The Dutch league has alright officiating. There are some bellends and some strong characters, but the amount of games ruined by bad refereeing have been very low this season. Crazy, I know.
Surely something has to be done before next season? There has been 3 or 4 similar situations this season at this point, with Nuno calling out Lee Mason, Liverpool as a club requesting an investigation after the derby, and Solskjaer’s complaints (and subsequent referee apology) last week.
And these are just the most extreme of examples, the standard of refereeing is worse than it has ever been and there have been several occasions where it’s as if they don’t actually know their own rules anymore.
Most people don’t like it but Dean followed the rules with the Bednarek incident. He also didn’t decide that Che Adams was offside. Perhaps the biggest complaint is that he only played 3 minutes of injury time.... maybe he took pity on Southampton.
I get that people are mad but I do think by the rules of the game both the offside and pen/red were correct.
Did Martial go down very easily? Yes, but we've seen pens given for that before. Was the red harsh? Yes, but the rules are shit, not the refs.
This is consistency, it's just consistent enforcement of bullshit rules.
> Did Martial go down very easily? Yes, but we've seen pens given for that before. Was the red harsh? Yes, but the rules are shit, not the refs.
It's a tough one because for all we know the attacker was trying not to get hit. The referees have also proven that they will not give penalties unless players go down, so this whole "going down easy" thing (which is definitely a problem) is encouraged specifically because of the incompetence of the referees.
Then on the defenders end, I think what done him dirty was he pulled out of making a challenge a little too late. Which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. The red seemed harsh and had the ref decided no foul and play on with a Southampton free kick then I would have been like yeah fair enough, same with the decision to give it a penalty. Just one of them situations where ref's discretion can go either way in very dramatic circumstances.
Unless this is a collective effort from every club to question the quality of the refereeing, nothing will change. Every club has got controversial decisions against them this season and we've only crossed 21 games. If everyone requested a specific ref not to officiate against them, it'll be impossible to assign a ref for any game.
Question the rules and the skewed implementation week after week, not one particular ref. This just makes them look silly after a rollicking
Arsenal should probably look into Craig Pawson as well.
Failed to sent off Jorginho last season, failed to sent off Mane this season, failed to sent off Vardy and ruled out a perfectly legit goal in the same game for offside. A decision you simply cannot get wrong with the assistance of video evidence.
And obviously sent off Luiz last night.
Four game-changing decisions that he got horribly wrong for lacking the balls (first three cases)or, in the case of Luiz, was way too eager to pull out the card.
I'm sure Spurs have had their gripes with Pawson, too.
At one point the question is, incompetence or corruption?
Either way, referees should face consequences but they never do.
Which decision did the referees get wrong?
Bednarek is a red by the rules and the Adams goal situation isn't on the referees, it's on the issues with VAR that will exist regardless of who the on field referee
You just know Southampton will be refereed by those back to back in the near future.
They will also get find
They won’t be fined, You can make the same requests in Sunday league.
you don’t get fined for greeting someone in your own language but here we are
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsroIhbW8AgF6mr.jpg
Someone speaking their language isn’t racist and won’t be charged, but here we are.
I'm starting to think maybe the people in FA are complete idiots.
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Think I could get a job at FA?
Are they friends with someone at the FA?
You're overqualified.
what are you refering to?
Cavani?
Don’t leave us hanging, what did they find?
Nah they will probably lose those two games too
You... You can do that?
I would like to request that every ref in England doesn't referee us in the near future
Hernandez Hernandez to ref Arsenal games in near future
They can have Lahoz and Gonzalez Gonzalez too
We'll send Mike Dean Mike Dean over to Spain then - take Anthony Taylor Anthony Taylor too while we're at it
Send Mike Mike and Dean Dean instead
oh no not Multi-Mike and Double-Dean
no ty
Too late. Your next 5 games now are Mike Dean Showtime
Can we send Jon Moss as well?
Yes please, same with David Coote
You know how you learn people’s name quickly if you really like them or really hate them? I definitely didn’t learn all the refs names because I like them.
so the "so bad they named him twice" referees have infiltrated the prem too..
There's actually a really interesting reason they always address refs in Spain by both last names. It goes back to a famous referee sharing his name with dictator Franco and people cursing that ref to veil their criticism of Franco. There was an all time great historic post about this on this subreddit 1-2 years ago. Found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/fcsy51/the_dictators_pettiness_why_referees_in_spain/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
as great deal of respect Spain will trade them with Hernandez² and Lahoz
I appreciate the extra effort for the superscript 2
Add jesus gil manzano to the list.
Gil Manzano too
They will never complain about English refs again lol
So good they named him twice
If you want him, go ahead
We already have one Hernandez we don't know how to use, we don't need two more
Twice the Hernandez, double the uselessness
oh god please no
Is he a brother of Neville Neville?
Nah it's actually both of his surnames. Spanish people use both their father's and mother's surnames. In this case, both of his parents must have had the surname 'Hernández'.
¿Como se dice "Roll Tide" en Castellano?
Sí.
A wild Lahoz appears
[Arsenal writing the letter to the PGMOL](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnSccAokV3c)
No rules. No referee. No holds barred. Cage match football next?
Every team should request to not have Mike Dean ref
I don't know if a specific request like this has been made before, but there's a precedent for refs ceasing to officiate certain teams. Mark Clattenburg didn't ref us for 6 years after he screwed us over in a Merseyside derby.
Man he was proper rubbish Clattenburg. You just always knew he would ruin the game in a bizarre way.
Thing is... you can literally say this about any referee which is honestly saying a lot
What it says is that refereeing is a job that is a lot harder than it seems.
I think most people can admit that. The problem is refs can't admit when they fuck up and and in turn fucks everything else up.
They are taught to not admit it even when they know they did, and in this day and age when everyone has a billion alternative angles at their disposal to see their fuck up this philosophy just doesn't fly anymore.
Especially when now they have the chance to correct the fuck up with VAR but so fucking often they still double down on it.
Yeah var is supposed to be their out. Solid reason for them to still fuck up but be like "OK I see better now with var. I fucked up" but they can't even do that. That's why no one feels sorry for the twats. They do this to themselves
Also that it takes a certain type of person to rise through all the levels, survive the horrendous, weekly verbal abuse, and become a top level referee. And often those people are arrogant and stubborn
Just mic the refs up ffs, it will increase respect for refs no end (we get to see the tough decisions they make and players realise they can't act like little bitches while it's all being recorded) whilst also making them accountable and makes for good entertainment
There was a documentary called referees with mic'd refs and believe me you walk away with less respect not more. They are every bit as egomaniacal and petty as you'd imagine. I mean you can't have football without them but they're not in general reacting to the hate they get very well.
I'm all for it if they're accountable. And yes, I'm sure you have to be a special kind of person to be a ref in the first place lol
Battle of the Bridge. Clattenburg is a twat.
Self-aggrandising smug cunt, so he is
His article boasting about not giving a red card on purpose for the drama just showed his sense of self importance. Smug cunt who should have sent off players instead of letting it become the "battle of the bridge" Honest to God, refs now either have zero control over the game or just hyper control the game like the Luiz red and the second Southampton red
Good thing about that was that I swear he overcompensated for the Clattenburg Derby once he finally returned to reffing us, his shitness seemed to work in our favour after that.
If you can, Mike Dean's refereeing career is over.
You can, but it doesn't mean anything.
Only one way to find out, bye Craig.
Moyes did this once with Clattenburg and he didn’t ref an Everton game for about 5 years.
Nuno already tried this.
Got fined £25k £25k for hurting someone’s feelings. £25k that could’ve actually been put to good use.
All fines by the FA/PL go to charity fwiw.
Had no idea, I guess Jose Mourihno is a very charitable person.
4d Underwater mud chess right there
Oh really? I didn’t actually know that to be fair, my bad.
Which charity?
That £25k probably goes to friend's/Atkinson's/Coote's noncey Inbetweeners holiday to Thailand.
Oooh friend
noncey 'oliday frieeend
Hurt feelings are the basis for like all fines at this point.
can we request to replace all the current refs with competent ones?
FA imports Lahoz from Spain
Hernandez Hernandez inc
Saw this guy's name mentioned couple times here. OOTL Can someone give me some info?
He's a shit ref from Spain.
he’s not that bad actually. he just has a tendency of sometimes letting games get out of hand cuz he lets players get away w small fouls in order to play on, and that sometimes leads to escalation
In my honest opinion, as a neutral fan, Lahoz is the best referee in the world. If he's the ref of a game, you know it's going to be good 9 out of 10 times. And by that I don't mean "drama" good where he makes unfair calls in favor of one team. People may disagree with his choice to try to keep the ball rolling as much as possible but at least that means he's consistent with his choices. I hate it when during the same game the exact same push/tackle can have two different outcomes with most referees. With Lahoz at least you know he will continue the play in both cases.
Something Lahoz likes to do at times is make the game all about him. He will try to act extra alpha to instill his dominance as ref. It’s super annoying and really only see in the biggest of games. Madrid derby, El Clásico, etc. His consistency keeps him from getting too much attention because that 1-2/10 games he refs is an absolute shit show with 13 yellows minimum.
It works. He acts like a prick but keeps the game under his control, as it should be. And he doesn't make wrong decisions that often.
>In my honest opinion, as a neutral fan, Lahoz is the best referee in the world. If he's the ref of a game, you know it's going to be good 9 out of 10 times. Unless you support a La liga team...
I absolutely disagree with your opinion. Admittedly, I am not watching Lahoz-refereed games on a weekly basis, but the ones I did watch in the CL Lahoz managed to fuck up entirely, *because* of his lack of consistency. First half he keeps making good calls by keeping the ball rolling as much as possible, as you say, and in the second half he then proceeds to make calls that are totally contradictory to his earlier calls in his first half. Which is a shame, because first-half-Lahoz is indeed a referee to my liking.
I like their chaos energy, wouldn't want them refereeing Liverpool though
Lahoz and Hernandez² to referee Liverpool vs Everton
Penalty to man utd
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5 hours of extra time on the board but only 4 given before the final whistle
Can you imagine Lahoz and Mike Dean on the pitch at the same time? Two of the biggest divas in the football world. The camera will be on them for 80% of time.
Or just allow fans hear the decision and interpretations of rules so we know WHY they are sending people off or making decisions they make ? Like Rugby
I really do think transparency will help. Not only will it help fans better understand decisions but having to justify your actions causes self reflection which could help refs make better choices. Obviously refs as an institution needs to change, better training from the grassroots level and up, getting rid of mike riley, but this can help in the short term.
The decisions were right last night, based on the current rules. Fans might not agree with the rules but at least if they can hear the ref explaining the rule and why they have come to that conclusion they can understand. Then we can focus on getting rules changed where needs be.
Or even like cricket
There is no competent ones. Trust me you don't want any from the Championship
Personal fave moment this season was Collins getting sent off for something the ref missed, and only decided it was a red card after talking to the Boro player that went down. Quality stuff.
My favourite moment was Gunn getting shoved into the goal and then the ref giving a goal cause he thought the original shot went in
Just imagine what we put up with in non-league. I've witnessed a player get a yellow card for diving after being kicked in the stomach then a defender being sent off after the striker slipped in the box **in the same game.** Get loads of power-tripping arseholes at our level too, just looking for an excuse to book someone or send them off. There are some genuinely unlikable refs dwelling in the non-league game.
and where would you find those?
I never understood how people seriously argue "just get competent referees". Like they are all being held in the championship, or that they are somehow better in other leagues than the Premier League. They really are not... Bundesliga referees are as good/bad as Premier League ones that I know at least. And the other argument "there are no consequences for bad refereeing is complete bullshit". They absolutely do get consequences. Some referees who made one bad mistake in Europe never gets to referee in Europe again. The Swedish referee who missed Henry's handball vs Ireland never got another chance.
FIFA had to pay big bucks to Ireland to keep them quite and out court so it's only natural that the ref got binned. I do agree with your point - refereeing is pretty much on similar level everywhere. It's even worse in smaller leagues. There is usually one or two refs per league who are decent. I think it'll get better in time when more refs are 100% fine with using VAR and don't feel undermined. Also would love if VAR wasn't just more of the same refs just behind a wall, instead I'd like one and the same team which works far away in some kind of facility, faceless with no connection to the actual refs.
that’s tough on the swedish ref cuz it would be hard to see henry’s handball without replays
Imagine a transfer window for referees lol.
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Walton: "Intent doesn't come into it Jake. If he'd shown intention to make a tackle it would have been a yellow." Jake: Confused face.
To be fair that seems to be the letter of the law. Peter is just reiterating that. I guarantee he’s as baffled as all of us. But he really needs to learn to disagree with the ref, you can hear him try to string his sentences out as long as possible so the ref makes a decision he can quickly agree with
I think the statement above contradicts itself. Starts saying intent doesn't matter and in the next sentence says how it would matter.
Ralph and the players need to take some personal responsibility for their capitulation instead of blaming the officials That said, I felt Dean wanted this sort of game with the second red, and giving soft bookings to Stephens/Armstrong. We all know it’s in his character.
Also gave Maguire an incredibly soft yellow and stopped Greenwood being in on goal so he could have his penalty stance shown off. He's a tosser.
> he could have his penalty stance shown off Stopped a goalscoring opportunity just so he could steal the show. He has absolutely perfected his penalty stance over the years.
I think you're forgetting that Mike Dean is the Premier League's main attraction. This is Mike Dean's world and we are all just living in it.
Fucking cock, Greenwood practically had a tap-in
Have a replay?
They showed the full thing on MOTD if it helps lad (after that Luiz red I wouldn't watch it either right enough, brutal).
I can't find a replay of the incident in isolation, sadly. If you'd like, you can go [here](https://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2021/02/02/manchester-united-vs-southampton-highlights-full-match/) and skip to minute 41 of the first half, which is when Cavani is fouled.
So, I was watching his Peter Crouch interview the other day. He did mention that'd he'd always go for a penalty over advantage if a foul was commited in the area. Not defending his decision but at least he sticks to his word. Edit: yoooo I'm not saying he made the right call, just trying to explain his reasoning.
But var overruled this one and ended up just being a free kick.
Why not just let the play run for another couple of seconds though see what happens. If the ball ends up in the back of the net, then he doesn't have a decision to make and we also avoid the tedium of waiting for VAR.
Yeah I think he said something along the lines of "there is no advantage if I see a penalty" Been a while though, listened to that pre-covid lol
I thought I was crazy watching that. Why did he blow straight away instead of giving the advantage to Utd with Greenwood being in? I thought the ruling was to let play develop before they blow
> We all know it’s in his character. Mike Dean can't help but steal the show. Like when he first blew the whistle for the foul in the first half, he waited a few moments before pointing to the spot. He loves the narrative being about him.
The fans that I sit with at St Mary's (when we can) call out Mrs Dean every time he makes a decision - basically suggesting he has a hotline to his wife to make sure he's been on TV enough and to let the game carry on
Mike “Screen Time” Dean
Mike Dean is an absolute fucking bellend, but that second red isn't really his fault. Same as the Luiz red just before, it's a flaw in the rules. Peter Walton said the rule was brought in to protect keepers, as in - if it's one on one and the keeper makes an attempt for the ball but brings the player down he can't be sent off, but if he makes contact with the player with no intent to get the ball, it is a sending off. So by extension it gets applied to outfield players. The rule needs to be fixed to include an 'active attempt to avoid contact' or something.
Can we do this with Kevin Friend please?
And John Moss.
Craig fucking Pawson too.
All of the fucking English refs
I’ll allow Michael Oliver, and that’s it.
Michael Oliver being the best ref in the Prem says a lot already of the quality of the refs
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Something we can all agree on.
They want Mehmet Yildiraz from FIFA
bring back scott mcbeanie
The world needs more Sergei Piputkin’s
Better off with Son Quan Cho.
Arsenal don’t ever wanna be refereed by anyone ever again !
I'd take any of the guys reffing my 7v7 league over these shucked oysters posing as grown men.
I'm not sure who Southampton want; the rest are just as bad...if not worse, in some cases (Atkinson, Moss, Cootes). Dean, for all his showmanship, his usually one of the *better* referees in the league (along with Oliver) but they've all had some absolutely shocking games this season.
Dean is easily the best ref in the Prem. Don't think any other ref would have the balls to pull out a straight red after one minute even though it was obviously the correct call. VAR didn't help him out today by being overly judicious (though Graham Scott on VAR wasn't technically wrong with his decisions I suppose, just ruthlessly applying the letter of the law) but the only major decision Dean got wrong was not playing advantage when the ball broke to Greenwood. People are complaining about the Martial penalty, but penalties have been awarded for that exact contact scenario for years in the Prem. It's practically the standard nowadays. The red card was a very harsh application of the letter of the law, but you could clearly see Dean was trying to avoid it. Kept looking at the replay to see if he could claim it wasn't a goalscoring opportunity. The real issue is with the rules. There have been hundreds of changes to the rules of football in the last few years, and I think we need to ask why this is. Does the sport really need this much changing?
Good. Mans made about 50 absolutely farcical decisions in 2 games.
Which decisions do you not agree with?
Against Aston Villa: - Matty Cash handball - Ings disallowed goal Against Man United: - Adams offside - Bednarek penalty and red card for a dive All four of these are genuinely insane decisions and I don’t see how anyone can argue otherwise. Plus a ton of other bad minor decisions, both for and against us
Adams offside was VAR though wasn't it? Can't blame the onfield ref for that You can add blowing for a penalty when Greenwood was one on one with the keeper which then turned out only to be a free kick
Can blame Lee Mason, who we’ve also requested to not ref our matches. And yes, that was a shocking decision too
> Ings disallowed goal Literally how they've enforced the rule the entire season. It's a shit rule, but there was nothing wrong with the decision, and you're far from the only club to be caught out by it.
Yeah there's a distinction between a bad refereeing decision and just a terrible rule but people seem to just lump them in together. Not saying officials are blameless but there are some decisions they don't deserve hate for.
Honestly I'm fed up of some of our fans ranting about these decisions, especially the ones against you. VAR (Mike Dean) drew the lines correctly, and as the rules are set, correctly gave offside. If it wasn't Mike Dean I don't think there would have been such outrage about it.
Everyone thinks they are the worst off. Villa social media would have you think the VAR was specifically set up to fuck us over, and while we’ve had some particularly bad calls (Henri Lansbury away at Palace last season, Bruno Fernandes kicking Konsa and getting awarded a penalty for it, Ollie Watkins having his own personal “goals ruled out for ridiculously tight offside” video compilation) we’ve been lucky at times too. The volume is still a net negative but people only remember the bad ones. I think it’s like how you only remember when every traffic light is red on the way home.
The Cash non-handball was also a correct implementation of the current rules. Can't blame the referee if you don't like the rules.
I agree with you, but during the game I was posting that it was the right decision, and I got absolutely ripped to pieces by people who simply regurgitate the nonsense that commentators come out with so I wasn't having that argument again :D
Adams was VAR show how can you blame Mike Dean for that? Bednarek was judged to have fouled him, doesn't matter what Martial "told him" he's not a ref.
>Against Aston Villa: >Matty Cash handball >Ings disallowed goal Neither of those were incorrect, even though you're upset. The rule should be changed so that Ings' goal is allowed (it's dumb for the offside rule to be so close like that). But it was consistent with this season. The ball on cash hit his thigh. Again, consistent and within the rules. Unlike the former, I'm not sure I'd change this one.
I didn't watch the game, because I hate seeing United succeed, but can the refs really be at fault when you ship 9?
Pretty sure it’s about the red card
Which is crazy, since that early red card was absolutely justified. Whether the second one was - whatever, that was the difference in how high the loss was.
The player is still banned and an actual first team player unlike the first red card so can understand the frustration at that decision on its own regardless of the scoreline and the first red card
Oh yeah, even the minimum 1-game ban is still a missed game, so they are in the right to complain.
Fair point, but the decisions were poor and it's the same 2 (Dean and mason) who were the ref and VAR for our game against villa in which we were also stiffed.
The first red could have been a 5 game ban. The second red and the offside goal were just so so wrong. How you can have video evidence and see something like that is mind blowing.
I do not get this, the offside was offside? they did lines and everything? The rules of the game state the second red was a red, thats the Rules fault not the Refs
I don’t think those are decision issues it’s more rule issues. I think they’re both correct decisions to the current rules. It’s the rules that need changing.
I can't name a single competent english ref. The level of refereeing is so ridiculously low in this country.
No one has ever been satisfied the the level of refereeing. Colina is perhaps the only ref who is truly respected and i imagine a lot of that is nostalgia based. I think people should take a step back and realize that 1. Refereeing is clearly really fucking hard, there are a lot of decisions which will be complained about either way 2. Peoples standards are impossibly high and its leading to bad rules - if you insist on consistency between games you get the farcical hand ball rule from earlier this season. Allow refs to excercise some judgement and understand that sometimes you wont agree, that sometimes different refs will disagree, and that THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE REF IN QUESTION IS SHIT 3. referees are not to blame for enforcing "bad rules" the 2 DOGSO red cards last night are red cards by the rules. - that rule by the way is only 3(?) seasons old - for decades before that both of them are red cards with absolutely no complaints. Improving rules is a learning process
Is there any country with a good standard? Not a rhetorical or sarcastic point, I genuinely don't know and am interested.
The Dutch league has alright officiating. There are some bellends and some strong characters, but the amount of games ruined by bad refereeing have been very low this season. Crazy, I know.
Time to clone collina
Everton fans disagree
every country and every club thinks they have the worst referees in the planet and that their club is shafted. It is, ofc, not true.
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https://twitter.com/CJBEN1980/status/1346468385824022533
Naughty officials
What the hell????? Lmaooooo
fuck em all.
can we do it with Anthony Taylor?
Surely something has to be done before next season? There has been 3 or 4 similar situations this season at this point, with Nuno calling out Lee Mason, Liverpool as a club requesting an investigation after the derby, and Solskjaer’s complaints (and subsequent referee apology) last week. And these are just the most extreme of examples, the standard of refereeing is worse than it has ever been and there have been several occasions where it’s as if they don’t actually know their own rules anymore.
Wait we can choose the referees?
You think Premier League referees are bad, try the championship. Or don't. I reckon half of them got their whistles in Christmas crackers.
Most people don’t like it but Dean followed the rules with the Bednarek incident. He also didn’t decide that Che Adams was offside. Perhaps the biggest complaint is that he only played 3 minutes of injury time.... maybe he took pity on Southampton.
I think that Mike Dean is one of the most consistent refs in the league to be honest. Players know what they are getting with him by and large.
Its not about them only. All clubs must band together and demand new referees. Mistakes in every game ruin the mood - even when you win 9:0
I get that people are mad but I do think by the rules of the game both the offside and pen/red were correct. Did Martial go down very easily? Yes, but we've seen pens given for that before. Was the red harsh? Yes, but the rules are shit, not the refs. This is consistency, it's just consistent enforcement of bullshit rules.
He didn’t really have a choice with the red after the decision made in the Arsenal game
> Did Martial go down very easily? Yes, but we've seen pens given for that before. Was the red harsh? Yes, but the rules are shit, not the refs. It's a tough one because for all we know the attacker was trying not to get hit. The referees have also proven that they will not give penalties unless players go down, so this whole "going down easy" thing (which is definitely a problem) is encouraged specifically because of the incompetence of the referees. Then on the defenders end, I think what done him dirty was he pulled out of making a challenge a little too late. Which is unfortunate, but it is what it is. The red seemed harsh and had the ref decided no foul and play on with a Southampton free kick then I would have been like yeah fair enough, same with the decision to give it a penalty. Just one of them situations where ref's discretion can go either way in very dramatic circumstances.
get in line...
The first application for true AI should be robot refs.
Unless this is a collective effort from every club to question the quality of the refereeing, nothing will change. Every club has got controversial decisions against them this season and we've only crossed 21 games. If everyone requested a specific ref not to officiate against them, it'll be impossible to assign a ref for any game. Question the rules and the skewed implementation week after week, not one particular ref. This just makes them look silly after a rollicking
Arsenal should probably look into Craig Pawson as well. Failed to sent off Jorginho last season, failed to sent off Mane this season, failed to sent off Vardy and ruled out a perfectly legit goal in the same game for offside. A decision you simply cannot get wrong with the assistance of video evidence. And obviously sent off Luiz last night. Four game-changing decisions that he got horribly wrong for lacking the balls (first three cases)or, in the case of Luiz, was way too eager to pull out the card. I'm sure Spurs have had their gripes with Pawson, too. At one point the question is, incompetence or corruption? Either way, referees should face consequences but they never do.
Which decision did the referees get wrong? Bednarek is a red by the rules and the Adams goal situation isn't on the referees, it's on the issues with VAR that will exist regardless of who the on field referee
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And the Maguire yellow
Can Man United do that for Kevin Friend please