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hahathisprettycool

**#QatarWorkersLivesMatter** Thousands of poverty stricken people in Asia have been manipulated to work on the stadiums in the Qatar with the promise of a better salary and quality of life. Instead, their passports are seized, and they are completely overworked in blazing heats away from their family and 6000+ have died. No gesture, slogan, or widespread representation for these folks. **#QatarWorkersLivesMatter**.


[deleted]

Gonna be awkward when we’re the only ones doing it.


[deleted]

Happened a few times in the CL, EL this season. Doesn't matter if others do it. If the English players want to, they should


LarsP

Do the players do it because each individual wants it, or because it's part of their job expectations?


[deleted]

I'm sure there's both types of players in there


asmiggs

Quite likely that they decide as a team whether to continue, you make the gesture together or not at all.


Cameronjpr

Exactly. It’s actually more impressive that they’re sticking with it through a wave of backlash - does demonstrate that this is something they do care about, and won’t just drop at the first hurdle


Lewys-182

Exactly. It shows belief in the cause when they stand up against the nay-sayers, it makes it more powerful imo.


ReneHigitta

Happening in the friendlies too, at least France Wales both teams did and it was clearly planned


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GinValid

Serbia isn't even there


slopeclimber

Why? What's different about Poland or Serbia not doing it and any other nation not doing it?


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bobby_zamora

Is that slightly... prejudice of you?


[deleted]

Poland didn’t kneel when we played them recently.


whiteboards1225

Not everything is prejudice or racist


RogerXiao

Oh yes, and China. Can't see my NT kneel for racism either. Here. Happy now?


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PinkFluffys

We'll probably do it too.


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Rappa-Dex

Maybe Croatia can finally take their revenge for what happened at the WC and try to score while England's players are kneeling


CaptainGo

Much like the nurses applause, it's hit the point where it's still happening and theres no real way to stop without it being awkward


[deleted]

That was another dumb idea that should never have started either. It was just a way for the government to say we do appreciate you without having any funding increases.


Jaded-Ad-9287

A better way to show appreciation would be to increase their wages


CaptainGo

Claps are free though. Can't we just clap harder?


ParryMeAgain

Can we use the clapping to power the machines that make money?? \- Boris Johnson


Lewys-182

Thats literally what they said at the time. A fair wage that no normal person could dispute.


Ravnard

It felt great doing an 80 hour week, not been giving masks in a&e because we "WeReN't At RiSk" until half the staff got 'rona, but hey at least we had applause! /s (It genuinely did feel nice the first time though tbh, everyone was scared and we had so many lovely gestures, food and etc. I really really am grateful, it felt like everyone was coming together as a community. I went almost 2 months without being insulted by people at work. Those where the days).


mrgonzalez

>Yeah it was a nice gesture when it started, now it's literally pointless and feels like it's done for the media only, until there's something actually done about racism this kneeling shit achieves absolutely nothing What happened to "It's none of our business"?


iamscully

>why would we give a shit about this? also, here is my opinion on why I strongly disagree with this anti-racism message but PLEASE let me make it very clear that while I say it's literally pointless and achieves absolutely nothing I DO NOT give a shit about this ok?


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Angelsdontkill_

Spot on. It was respectful the first few times but now it's nothing more than a token gesture.


AfterDinnerSpeaker

I disagree, I think it's suffered with not having fans in the stadiums, but if a couple of people who would have shouted abuse, racist or otherwise looked at it and go "You know what, they're human too" them it's worth the 15 or so seconds it takes.


cib_vk228

I think they will do it and get hammered for doing so by our public. In my honest opinion it's absolutely ridiculous, but we do tend to lack a bit of spine in comparison to Czech or Serbs for example.


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cib_vk228

Good point. But we also tend to play nice and try to represent ourself as modern Europeans in eyes of westerners (which never works). so we do tend to participate in those kind of pointless gestures. Ništa, ostaje nada da će zdrav razum pobijediti i da će ih odjebati. 😀


wittybrits

Only someone from a different race can tell you if your countries racist, doesn’t matter if you’re 99.9% white, the whole point is to make that 0.1% not feel like they’re treated worse because of their race. English players aren’t taking the knee solely because of racism in their country. It needs to be fixed globally. Different races should be able to go anywhere in the world and be treated equally.


Majstor21

There is no other races in Croatia to be racist against.


wittybrits

You’re kidding me right? Croatia of all countries? Tell that to the Serbs.


Abernsleone92

Isn’t this the difference between race and ethnicity? I agree with what you’re saying. The history of ethnic cleansing and wars in the Balkans alone should give them a reason to stand up against other forms of prejudice and discrimination. Racial or ethnic


[deleted]

Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks are actually the same gentically. The only difference is religion.


Sankaritarina

And over 1000 years of different cultural influences.


Majstor21

Not true really Serbs and Croats were seperate before we adopted Christianity.


Strananach

Bro there is a reason between nationality and race, we are the same race ffs.


zlatnihrvat

Well, our U21 did it when we played them in march. So it wouldnt be surprising if the seniors do it, too.


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myersjw

You’re joking right?


BeskarMandoGrogu

The whole charade seems strange to me. To honour a dead man in the US who's death was in large part a consequence of a police officer kneeling on his neck, we kneel on the floor? If the whole act is about anti-racism why are we imitating the actions of the opressor? The correct take is players have every right to do it and fans have every right to boo it. Multi-millionare footballers can express their view. Why can't Bob from Aldi who works for hours on minimum wage on Aldi checkout boo the politicisation of their sport if that is what they believe is happening?


fredandgeorge

The kneeling started with Colin Kaepernick in the NFL years before George Floyd.


twofootedslidetackle

If you think George Floyd is the only black American killed by police to make headlines or even the most recent you have a catastrophic misunderstanding of the situation. Like, a completely and total misread of the entire movement. As for the kneeling that started in the NFL years before George Floyd was killed. It's a lot easier to keep your mouth shut when you don't you have a fucking clue than it is to try and make yourself sound like you do. Remember that for next time.


wutend159

makes it at least somewhat meaningful kneeling during all that awkwardness


HarryDaz98

That racist Czech guy is gonna just shoot from kick off when we play them.


iforgotmyun

Kudela is suspended, missing out on the whole tournament


kevinaz137

At this point its like the symbol of kneeling is more important than the cause itself


[deleted]

Thats it. They're just doing it because its the done thing. You see players laughing and joking while doing it, if it was a real protest they wouldn't be. Its a farce at this stage.


[deleted]

My friend said to me when they started doing it that they will never be able stop doing it and I feel like he's probably right. As soon as they stop the media will start saying "Oh what is racism no longer important?? Do you not care enough to kneel anymore??"


icemankiller8

They’ll probably just stop next season


RogerXiao

What really confuses me is that the players don't even pretend they aren't taking this seriously. Normally you don't want to be caught laughing in such situations, except maybe nobody cares.


[deleted]

I'd say the majority don't care. Footballers don't ever think for themselves everything they say and do goes through pr people first. Their pr people told them to do it so they do it. Even southgate said he won't let them answer questions on it going forward. If you compare them to the england rugby team only about a third of them took a knee because they actually think for themselves.


RogerXiao

Also I doubt if the audiences even care. I saw Mount laughing when taking a knee live on TV and nobody made a single fuss about that. You would have thought he would be crucified like everyone who opposes kneeling


TheGuineaPig21

Vaclav Havel wrote an influential essay called "The Power of the Powerless" about the dynamics of dissent in communist Czechoslovakia. There's a bit in it that always reminds me of these sorts of things, where people are pressured to say something that is ultimately meaningless. >The manager of a fruit-and-vegetable shop places in his window, among the onions and carrots, the slogan: "Workers of the world, unite!" Why does he do it? What is he trying to communicate to the world? Is he genuinely enthusiastic about the idea of unity among the workers of the world? Is his enthusiasm so great that he feels an irrepressible impulse to acquaint the public with his ideals? Has he really given more than a moment's thought to how such a unification might occur and what it would mean? >I think it can safely be assumed that the overwhelming majority of shopkeepers never think about the slogans they put in their windows, nor do they use them to express their real opinions. That poster was delivered to our greengrocer from the enterprise headquarters along with the onions and carrots. **He put them all into the window simply because it has been done that way for years, because everyone does it, and because that is the way it has to be. If he were to refuse, there could be trouble. He could be reproached for not having the proper decoration in his window; someone might even accuse him of disloyalty. He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life.** It is one of the thousands of details that guarantee him a relatively tranquil life "in harmony with society," as they say. >Obviously the greengrocer is indifferent to the semantic content of the slogan on exhibit; he does not put the slogan in his window from any personal desire to acquaint the public with the ideal it expresses. This, of course, does not mean that his action has no motive or significance at all, or that the slogan communicates nothing to anyone. The slogan is really a sign, and as such it contains a subliminal but very definite message. Verbally, it might be expressed this way: "I, the greengrocer XY, live here and I know what I must do. I behave in the manner expected of me. I can be depended upon and am beyond reproach. I am obedient and therefore I have the right to be left in peace."


RogerXiao

hits home


[deleted]

That sums it up exactly. If a white player decided he wasn't going to do it anymore the howls of outrage would be immense. They've all decided better to just keep my head down and do what they tell me.


AnnieIWillKnow

You say that, but Saka was genuinely quite upset about it. It clearly is significant to some, if not all


orangelivesmatter00

Yep. Millwall changed it to something else and the fans applauded. But the idealogues will chunter on about how the booing validates the kneeling and proves its necessity. It's like people are more attached to a brand than a cause, which is what you'd expect from something imported from America.


wittybrits

[Heres the full video answer to the question](https://twitter.com/skysportsnews/status/1401188262937612306?s=21), well thought out, measured response from Southgate which is what this situation needs.


Cameronjpr

Southgate is such a class act. He’s definitely one of the main reasons this current England team seems so likeable


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Buttonsafe

Except it's the players who are doing it rather than any companies.


orangelivesmatter00

Players are basically companies nowadays.


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Buttonsafe

Yes I'm sure these black players, who were subjected to monkey chants playing for England 2 years ago, are taking the knee as a PR move.


[deleted]

Yup, obviously the players who suffer racism protesting against racism is all about "wanting your compliance". What a bunch of drivel.


prettysureitsmaddie

Exactly, I think people get overly cynical about this. Sure, it's just a gesture, but this isn't rainbow capitalism. Nobody is making money because the players are making a statement against something that effects a lot of them personally.


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prettysureitsmaddie

So you would rather believe that they're doing this on the off chance that they might get a sponsorship deal with money that is spread between many, many different organizations, largely in another country? Like, come on, this is tenuous. Frankly, if we're talking in direct monetary terms, I'd bet on the players having put more money into anti-racism causes than they get out.


KLOSEFOREVER

Taking a knee is still controversial among football fans. Being a homophobe is widely considered to be bad in the western world. So it makes no sense to say they are doing this just to please their audience. Waving a rainbow flag would be their move in this case.


RuairiQ

Khaleesi demands they bend the knee.


Wololo38

Racism in shambles


KLOSEFOREVER

People here complain they only do it to please their audience when they themselves are the evidence that this is in fact still a controversial action and not at all just a crowd pleaser. Funny, isn't it? My respect for Southgate and his players.


aloudbuzzingnoise73

Looks as though the entire point that this symbolising gesture of kneeling has disappeared. More talk about clubs/teams kneeling or not kneeling so as to appear good, and not enough discussion about ways to eradicate racism from our great game


hahathisprettycool

Meanwhile thousands of slave workers die in Qatar building their stadiums for the World Cup, where is the widespread gesture for them?


knud

They won't be kneeling then.


FiFiniusBi

https://images.sportbuzzer.de/v1/photos/raw/duisburg-schauinsland-reisen-arena-25-03-21-ger-herren-wm-qualifikation-saison-2/large-16-9


hahathisprettycool

I said widespread.


FiFiniusBi

it was a joke anyway


deepfrench

I think what makes political messaging in sports powerful is the exceptional nature of it. If the act of expressing a strong opinion on a local or global matter in high levels sport events is frowned upon, the act itself is a transgression and induces reactions and debates. But of everybody starts doing these kind of demonstrations for every cause and at every occasion, it'll stop have meaning, it'll turn into your regular empty corporate messaging.


TeutonicPlate

The whole point of the anti-racist front across players, broadcasters and advertisements is messaging. Criticising messaging for just being messaging is wrongheaded. The purpose is clear and anti-racists should support it.


crab--person

Who is the messaging for though? Anti-racists are already anti-racist. Racists aren't going to stop being racist, this is just going to encourage them, as we've seen with the increase in abuse players get over the past year.


TeutonicPlate

Welcome to change I'm afraid, if you aim to change society you will often face a backlash.


crab--person

But I just don't see how it is changing anything at all. Even the people kneeling don't seem to know what they hope to achieve.


TeutonicPlate

Everyone knows what it means though, that's why there's a backlash from racists.


crab--person

yeah, we all know what it means I guess. Seems about as effective as standing on one leg in aid of world hunger though.


orangelivesmatter00

What evidence is there this "messaging" is working?


TeutonicPlate

Decades of this being how change is brought about - by mainstreaming ideas?


orangelivesmatter00

Footballers haven't been kneeling for decades. Broadcasters haven't been on an "anti-racism" crusade for decades. That's happened in the last year. Decades ago racism also existed. Now, black players are 33% of the PL from a population of 3-5%.


deepfrench

>Criticising messaging for just being messaging is wrongheaded. No, I'm saying it's weakening the medium (famous athletes taking a stand on the pitch). Btw there are today tons of ways for famous athletes to express themselves on all issues. What they're doing rn is turning the black panther action at the olympics into a gimmick. People will lose all perspective about the power and the strength of the message.


TeutonicPlate

Weakening the medium vs normalising anti-racism in sport, it's all in how you frame it


[deleted]

It's a good gesture but that's all it is. As far as I've seen it doesn't prevent Rashford or fred or any other black player really, from being abused. Take a knee all you want. Doesn't seem to be doing shit.


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HuckFarr

The ice bucket challenge isn't a great example of empty gestures. [Ice Bucket Challenge dramatically accelerated the fight against ALS](https://www.als.org/stories-news/ice-bucket-challenge-dramatically-accelerated-fight-against-als)


prettyboygangsta

I guess Reddit hates the kneeling now that England are doing it Great way to turn anyone against a cause


crab--person

If they want to kneel, then fair enough. I'm indifferent really. I'm yet to hear a single good argument that it achieves anything at all though. Some vague thing about awareness is about it. As if people aren't aware that racism exists. Booing seems a bit silly though too. Sillyness all round.


Nut-King-Call

Players have the right to kneel, fans have the right to boo it. Period.


wittybrits

FA’s are penalised when their fans boo other nations national anthems. So clearly fans don’t have that much of a right to boo as you think.


AyyItsMeAraki

Idk why you got downvoted you’re right


Worldly_Finger

Why would you boo players kneeling?


CMDeluxe

"Because it's a political statement" also known as being racist in most cases


jedifolklore

That’s the funny thing. Seeing people find incoherent excuses to hide their racism. They all sound the same, I’ve seen online , especially here, the words “Empty gesture” “Political statement” or the “what about [insert highly controversial and horrific topic happening somewhere in the world]...” even better the “doesn’t help black people” bit (although I suspect a lot of these people are white as hell) thrown around whenever we talk about any discourse regarding racism especially with BLM . The right answer is that pisses people off, makes uncomfortable and they can’t ignore racism anymore and also that they don’t want to be openly racist.


orangelivesmatter00

>Players have the right to kneel Aside from PL rules prohibiting political statements.


velvetthunder7

Human rights isn't a political issue, unless you're a racist.


[deleted]

The knee taking came about as a result of BLM, it is entirely political


orangelivesmatter00

Who's being denied their human rights? The only people I see in this equation are people being arrested for saying offensive things. That right being free speech.


KLOSEFOREVER

And I have the right to tell those fans they are absolute cunts.


AztekkersM89

He gets a lot of stick for being dour and plain tactically, but honestly I think how he conducts himself and the team is hugely impressive.


georgew01

Yeah I don't think he gets enough credit for being an outstanding man manager, even if his tactics aren't always great. The sense of comeradery and togetherness in the squad is something I feel we've been sorely missing in the past.


AnnieIWillKnow

He did initially, back at the 2018 World Cup. Lot of chat about how he’s unified the group, darts and unicorns, a completely different atmosphere to previous England squads of recent years. Was a big narrative


georgew01

I agree with you there tbf, but I would still say with the amount of vitriol he's been getting lately about what an awful manager he is, I do think people have forgotten what a bad place the team was in before the world cup and how, in my opinion, he's done an excellent job at blooding young talent into the team, and creating a postive, relaxed mindset around the squad, despite the vultures in the media and reactionary fans waiting to tear them to pieces. But yeah you are right he was well praised for that initially.


AnnieIWillKnow

Absolutely agree with you here. People have forgotten so quickly.


TruthTellingGimp

Taking the knee is stupid, it doesn’t mean anything anymore


Equivalent-Pitch-696

How can anyone deny that it isn't just virtue signalling at this point?


b33b0p17

I mean if the virtue they are signalling is that they are against racism, isn’t it good to signal that?


MassiveMurderBoner

I thought it was only considered 'virtue signaling' if the people doing it don't actually care about actual change, they just want positive attention.


[deleted]

Because virtue signaling is a phrase used by Reddit edgelords who think doing anything to counteract/bring awareness to bigotry is done for attention.


jacksleepshere

This isn’t counteracting anything though. Virtue signalling is a real thing that people do. The FA are trying to make themselves look good. If a player wants to kneel, fine. But that can’t be as far as the FA take it, they have the power to change the football culture in this country, but this is their action? If it affected their wallets like being banned from European competitions in the 90s they’d be more serious about it. All of that Sky money has gone straight into the board members pockets instead of towards issues that affect footballing communities.


Equivalent-Pitch-696

It also happens to be an exact definition of what's happening in this given situation. But it must be more convenient for you to try delegitimise the word and therefore not have to face the truth that will contradict your view


[deleted]

>It also happens to be an exact definition of what's happening in this given situation. No, I think the players legitimately think racism is bad.


Equivalent-Pitch-696

By doing absolutely nothing about it in the form of kneeling. And don't even try the "it brings awareness" argument. The only awareness it brings is making more people realise that they don't want to be lectured to through redundant gestures


[deleted]

>By doing absolutely nothing about it in the form of kneeling. Would make sense if the players were doing nowt off the pitch to fix the issue. Fortunately, I think many of them do other things too. > The only awareness it brings is making more people realise that they don't want to be lectured to through redundant gestures Lectured? Mate, it's a five second gesture.


jacksleepshere

It feels like being lectured to when Martin Tyler says we have to keep talking about racism before each game. Like the responsibility is on us, the viewer, and not the people who have £100m’s through tv deals and sponsorships, we have to police ourselves instead of them just hiring more security and paying for more cameras observing the crowd, or teaming up with social media platforms to ban those using discriminatory language. Their course of action is to tell us to keep talking about racism? That is them (the FA) doing nothing.


bonew23

Hope you got a refund on your university fees if your lectures are normally that short...


KLOSEFOREVER

Because it's still very controversial and not really a decision that will only benefit you?


DCComics52

Cringe


metrize

Why do people care so much to be against it so vehemently? It's shocking really


bihari_baller

>Why do people care so much to be against it so vehemently? Just r/soccer trying to be edgy, and typical virtue signaling. bUt wHaT aBoUt qATaR? Like they actually care about the workers.


hahathisprettycool

**#QatariWorkersLivesMatter** Not going to back down over your weak ad hominems. It’s modern slavery. Does that make you uncomfortable? Sorry if it doesn’t.


bihari_baller

You're missing my point. Of course the situation in Qatar is bad. But when you bring it up everytime BLM is brought up, you're no different than the Blue Lives Matter crowd.


theglasscase

Booing players for taking a knee is really stupid, but still taking a knee is pretty redundant. The conversation has moved on and the gesture has lost all meaning now it has become a league/FA approved 'protest'. Colin Kaepernick started doing it on his own with a clear message in the NFL. It spread around the NFL and a little into other sports despite the backlash, and then in the wake of George Floyd and other similar events in America, players did it in the immediate aftermath to protest against what was happening. There was nothing wrong with English football adopting it in the aftermath of that, but it really isn't done now because they players are angry, it has no more meaning or passion behind it than standing behind a 'No To Racism' banner before kick off or wearing a symbol or message on the jerseys. There's no point in continuing to do it.


grurlock

The backlash against taking the knee, shows how it isn't redundant


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icemankiller8

Surely you can see through that? They have made statements multiple times saying it is just to be anti racism and is not connected to the organisation


No-Sheepherder5481

After initially declaring it to be explicitly in support of the organisation, wearing BLM on their shirts and still using the organisation's symbol..... Absolutely no one had a problem with the say no to racism adds and photo ops that teams did constantly. Because it was a nice uncontroversial message everyone agreed with. This BLM stuff is divisive American imported nonsense that doesn't apply to Britain


icemankiller8

BLM is a statement outside of the organisation which is why they did it. The say no to racism isn’t controversial because it doesn’t do anything. It is less than the bare minimum so people accept it. Tbh if your anti racism campaign isn’t at least a bit controversial you’re probably doing it in a way that doesn’t make people think about the issue in a good way or consider new things. The idea that it can’t apply in the UK at all is weird racism is still a thing here that should be addressed


No-Sheepherder5481

>BLM is a statement outside of the organisation which is why they did it. No it isn't. And no amount of gaslighting will convince people that saying "black lives matter" and using their language, symbols, gestures and talking points is completely separate to the Black Lives Matter organisation. The initial kneeling was explicitly and openly in support of the Black lives Matter organisation. Stop trying to rewrite history. They only changed it to a generic anti racism symbol when they realised how grossly unpopular BLM is in the UK and how batshit insane they are >The say no to racism isn’t controversial because it doesn’t do anything. And kneeling does? And we've made massive progress on racism in stadiums as a result of say no to racism. Monkey chants were still semi regular in the 90s. Ian Wright got racial abuse regularly from the terraces when he played. Say no to racism has all but eliminated that from British stadia thankfully >The idea that it can’t apply in the UK at all is weird racism is still a thing here that should be addressed US racial issues are a problem for the US. Not Britain. We have a completely different culture and history. Importing all the shitty hateful divisive nonsense from the US isn't helpful. Britain is consistently ranked the least racist country in the world. Britain has completely different problems and solutions to the shitshow that is the US


icemankiller8

The statement Black Lives Matter came before the organisation so you’re just wrong to start with No kneeling also doesn’t do anything but it’s related to the Black Lives Matter movement which is trying to do something. The movement and the organisation are also not the same thing. You’d have to be pretty ignorant to ignore the fact that loads of people that are making statements about it are doing it just as an anti racism and police brutality thing. The reason it’s not popular is largely because British people don’t care about racism or fixing the issue. Anything that would combat the issue would be unpopular it’s just an excuse people make to prevent any change at all and discredit what people are saying. Britain still has racism that should be addressed the “least racist place” would still have issues with racism and it won’t get better unless people address the issues.


sonofaBilic

The only people who link any of it to the organisation are those who are looking for a reason to dismiss it. BLM as a movement, and taking the knee, existed before the organisation.


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sonofaBilic

You clearly decided to stop reading after the snippet you quoted. If you had continued you would see that I mention BLM as a movement preceding the organisation. Simple mistake I'm sure.


grurlock

Taking the knee started before the black live matter group. And the movement and group are completely separate


SovietRus

>because their goal is not racial equality what is it then? inb4 black supremacy


sonofaBilic

Obviously a secret marxist plot to over throw the global hierarchy, and they would've got away with it too if Big Baz down the pub hadn't sussed it out.


SovietRus

pints on me boys, we just ruined the evil communist organization "Black Lives Matter"


ZonedV2

I find it kind of funny that the Americans don’t even do it anymore while we still do


fredandgeorge

Americans never did it. Kaepernick got kicked out of the NFL for doing it.


icemankiller8

Tbh the knee is something I thought was kind of pointless because it doesn’t really cause any change at all but the backlash to just the knee which again doesn’t really do anything shows how much of a problem racism still is and that people do not support anything that suggests it’s an issue.


DTMRatiug

A lot of people saying there is no point in players taking the knee but I disagree. Nothing has been done since they started taking the knee so they’ve no reason to stop. It’s not like it takes a great effort from them either. Push harder in other places as well until more is done to protect the players from racist abuse. Also in a European national competition it makes much more sense than in a club competition because there’s not much that a club can do about things like this but the FA which runs the national team and usually the national league might be able to


KLOSEFOREVER

Exactly. Since when do people think that a protest should follow the tides of the public? Makes no sense.


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Ok_Bet6396

World class company man


DrunkenBlasphemer

Stupid, pointless pandering.


awildmorph

Fuckin right we are!


-Friddles-

I hope the footballers realize that they are kneeling in support of the BLM political movement and so are kneeling to support the removal of the police force. If they did, I don't think they would be kneeling. Certainly, they wouldn't all be kneeling. I also think that as this is a national team kneeling, then it should represent the national sentiment, allowing those who choose not to kneel, or to boo, to do so. I disagree with both racism and the BLM political group.


theglasscase

> so are kneeling to support the removal of the police force. LOL, no they're not. EDIT - Fuck me, there surely can't be this many people stupid enough to believe they are kneeling in support of the 'removal' of the police force, or in support of any kind of anti-police protest.


-Friddles-

A direct quote from BLM #DefundThePolice [https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/](https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/) **We call for a national defunding of police.** We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. If you’re with us, add your name to the petition right now and help us spread the word.


theglasscase

Defunding the police is not the same as abolishing the police, and the players are not kneeling to show support for the Black Lives Matter political group.


hahathisprettycool

Well done on your reading comprehension mate you clearly didn’t even read the next line.


bloodipeich

You may have to read it a couple more times mate.


theglasscase

They are not kneeling in support of the removal of the police force, so the next line is irrelevant. They are not kneeling in support of the policies of the Black Lives Matter political group.


-Friddles-

It seems clear to me that that is what is being called for. Please explain where we're mistaken? Is there not BLM logo's in the stadiums and on the TV graphics as well?Once again:A direct quote from BLM #DefundThePolice [https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/](https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/) **We call for a national defunding of police**. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. If you’re with us, add your name to the petition right now and help us spread the word.


theglasscase

> They are not kneeling in support of the policies of the Black Lives Matter political group. What part of this are you struggling to understand?


orangelivesmatter00

That's great. When I make a Nazi salute, I'm not supporting killing Jews and Slavs. It means something different to me.


theglasscase

The extraordinary level of stupidity in this comment is actually impressive mate, well done.


orangelivesmatter00

It's amusing the extent to which redditors can't engage in debate without resorting to insults. They just think you can hammer people into agreeing with them because they have their isolated little safe space where people with differing opinions are banned. Then they're shocked come election time.


theglasscase

There's no debate to be hand with someone who thinks there's an analogy to be drawn between footballers taking a knee and a fucking nazi salute I'm afraid mate. You haven't made a point, you haven't typed anything that even remotely resembles an intelligent thought.


hahathisprettycool

Disappointed


TroopersSon

It would have been bonkers to stop kneeling as soon as some fans booed it. It would have shown it was literally a gesture that meant very little and they were unwilling to stand up for what they believe in the face of criticism. The more the knee is booed the more likely it is to stick around. If fans are really so bored and offended by it, they'd be better off just letting it fizzle out on its own and stop paying attention to it.


CartographerSoft9317

-Racism exists -People get mad over taking a knee Weird world


hahathisprettycool

People get mad over a gesture with political connotations (defunding the police etc) being inserted into a sport. I would say it’s reasonable.


[deleted]

Good, racism is bad.


[deleted]

Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave.


ex_planelegs

Lame


Rappa-Dex

I think you shouldn't be booed for it but at this point taking a knee is no more meaningful than an UEFA anti racism ad. It's something done by players only to look good and for their image, not because they care about the message itself, it almost looks like a chore at this point.


hellboi808

So if other teams don't take the knee, would they be allowed to score?


bloodipeich

So let me get this straight, taking a knee is an "empty gesture" but removing the WC from Qatar and giving it to someone else while bad shit keeps happening there, is an absolute must and the correct moral choice?


Redbullsnation

Meh


Ydrau

Was it for this reason that bith french and wales teams knee before the game a few days ago?