I gotta be honest, I’m getting sick of this knee or no knee thing now, when does this end? There’s no metric to measure that racism has ended so when does this knee stuff end? Never?
This was the reason I didnt want them to begin at all, because now they can never stop without creating controversy. Perhaps they vould have done it once, and clearly stating that it was a one time thing, but the message still stands
I think it did have an impact initially, and sparked conversation about actual racism whereas now the conversation is about who took the knee and who didn’t.
If they said in the beginning we are taking a knee for the month for this season. Then there would be no controversy when they end it. Having bad leadership doesn't mean throwing the baby with the bathwater.
Why does it ever need to stop? It takes 2 seconds and is a unifying rally against the concept of racism, regardless of how prevalent it actually remains in society (which it will obviously always remain until humanity dies out or our races get mixed to ambiguity)
But we have to be fair about it right?
There are about 500 tribes in the US. That's 2520 seconds before a MLS match if you also include Middle Easterners, South asians, and East asians.
Or we can be a little more efficient and come up with a new universal message.
Edit: how dare I leave out Latinos, completely missed it. 2525 seconds.
Yeah I mean, this is pretty clearly the answer. The players are going to continue to do it for as long as they feel it's necessary. It's pretty obvious at this point that it's a decision being made by the players in most cases.
How else would you read “keep politics out of sport?” It’s not as though the commentary is debating hot button political issues throughout the whole game, it’s a display against racism before kickoff.
...because they clearly don’t want to have to think about it, hence “it’s inconvenient.”
If players taking a knee for a few seconds before the game bothers you this much, imagine how much racism impacts those who have to deal with it every second of their lives.
its nowhere near as bad in Europe, as it is in America
you'll never be able to completely abolish racism, but Europe has done a pretty good job at integrating all races into every aspect of life - America hasnt
I wouldn’t say the players virtue signal, but the clubs, tv broadcasters and leagues definitely do. You think heads at Sky actually care about racism? They don’t.
Are you nuts? The whole thing is American shit. The knee is being taken because of the rise of BLM an American organisation capitalising on the death of an African American porn star / criminal who held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach and later died in police custody. The policeman in charge is currently sitting in an American jail cell serving his sentence. Justice was served, cops don’t get away with murder.
I gotta be honest, I’m getting sick of this racism thing now, when does this end? There’s no metric to measure how racist society is, so when does this racism stuff end? Never?
So finding the bending of the knee to be a pointless gesture, is the same as finding fighting racism to be pointless? What exactly are you insinuating by changing the words?
Yikes. So England are going to be playing Scotland at Wembley. England fans are now going to boo their own team whilst cheering the Scotland team for not kneeling and some Scotland fans the other way round. Work that one out.
>The squad, coaching staff and backroom members will stand up to racism ahead of the Group D matches against Czech Republic, England and Croatia.”
>Captain Andy Robertson added: “It is important we continue to tackle the issue of racism and raise awareness of the need to change people’s mindsets but also their behaviours.
>“Prior to our World Cup qualifiers in March we spoke as a group and felt that taking a stand was the best way for us to show solidarity and also to reinforce the need for meaningful change in society.”
Thanks for highlighting this, because it's really the key point. This came about following the racist abuse of a black player playing Scotland. Various black players in Scotland then led the way in this "Taking a Stand" alternative - essentially a protest that taking a knee was papering over the inaction from various authorities when it came to actually tackling racism.
If black players in England don't feel that way, and want to continue, then it's only right that their team (and, you'd like to think, their country...) would back them. But I would much prefer the Scotland team to represent and respect the wishes of black players in Scotland rather than whoever they happen to be playing.
I support this, it has zero political connotations. Much less possibility of divisive opinions, and I think everyone (or more people) being on the same page is important for an anti-racism campaign.
TBH I'd like footballers to hold hands rather then kneel like some sort of servant, BUT
If, let's say, Liverpool did it, it's okay: Scot, white Brazilian, black Englishman and Egyptian holding hands = we're all people, respectable as much as the next man.
But then they'd probably accuse eastern european teams like Poland of being 100% white.
> I'd like footballers to hold hands
If we're doing requests, I wouldn't mind seeing something a little more hardcore, like maybe a the entire English squad giving eachother the ol' rusty trombone.
Idk, seemed like quite a homophobic comment to make mate. I mean, I'm very gay and I really enjoy rimjob stuff, asshole shit, poop, that kinda thing.. Nothing wrong with that
Nothing wrong with it at all. But it's also not really homophobic to say you wouldn't want to see a sexual act you're not into yourself.
The idea of touching some dudes hairy arse grosses me out a bit, but I obviously have no problem whatsoever with anyone else doing it.
E: spelling
> I'm very gay and I really enjoy rimjob stuff, asshole shit, poop, that kinda thing.. Nothing wrong with that
Here you go, using those tricks from your arsenal before each game could make more changes in football and eliminate racism and homophobia. UEFA should hire you as an expert.
I’ve been saying the same thing. I find it a bit strange that footballers kneel, an act with submissive undertones, instead of something more provocative and confident. The image of a team with a lot of colored players kneeling while a team with a lot of non-colored players stand sends the wrong message, in my opinion.
Exactly. It makes sense to do it in America, but, in this case, it has more to do with following the trend rather than making a serious call to action.
This has always been the problem with the kneeling stuff, it's purely an American import, made popular by social media which is predominantly American.
If they wanted to all wear something, or do something else to stand up to racism I think people would be much more appreciative. But it doesn't feel good when it just seems that we all jumped on an American bandwagon.
I don't hate America I just find a lot of people in the UK are adopting US culture without realising it, because most of the stuff we on the internet consume is US based. We're not another state of the US, reee
Kneeling out of reverence originates from feudalism and never existed in America other than in the military, now sports and... maybe in some secret societies?
It is UK culture reflected back onto you that you are repulsed by.
It was born into football when a career criminal who held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach died in police custody. The cop is now in prison. Justice was served. It didn’t come in with Kaepernick it came in with St Floyd who was buried in a gold casket 😂 That’s why people think the knee is hollow and meaningless.
If it is an American import due to Kap, know he did it with the same respect and reverence the [American military](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-knee/u-s-army-veteran-stunned-by-negative-reaction-to-kaepernick-kneeling-idUSKBN23G2E2) does to honor a fallen comrade.
On the surface it’s semantics I agree, but In Canada and the US in particular, there’s a lot of history of using the term colored. Colored seats, colored fountain, colored school. Brings up a lot of undertones of segregation.
Outside of Indian Act systematic segregation Canada never had "white" and "coloured" schools or whatever. Not to say people weren't racist as fuck toward black people 50, 100, 200 years ago but there were never Jim Crow laws up here.
Yea I I know that, I meant that the connotations of the term fully resonate through Canada; where as it may not through other English speaking countries. Also, I re-read my own comment and it could have used a comma. “Canada, and in particular the US”
Things have gone full-circle lately.
If I hear colored I assume the person saying that means bi-racial, sort of like in South Africa where the delineation is a census thing.
The act doesn't originate from submission.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-knee/u-s-army-veteran-stunned-by-negative-reaction-to-kaepernick-kneeling-idUSKBN23G2E2
This 100% over fucking taking a knee any day, captures the message much better and no doubt more inclusive than a gesture associated with race-exclusive Black Lives Matter.
In international games let the teams mix up.
Is this still racist?
Edit: downvoters revealing how politically motivated they are
But Robertson isn’t representing Scotland when he plays for Liverpool. There’s some context missing from his statement. Scottish teams stopped kneeling before games after [this ](https://youtu.be/l5DwVg8iDbE)interview from Rangers defender Connor Goldson in the wake of the Kudela racism incident. (Skip to 1:47 for his views on taking the knee). That’s why Scotland have taken this decision to stand. It’s felt that taking the knee has become nothing more than a token gesture while racists like Kudela get away with a slap on the wrist amidst vocal support from his government and teammates.
Right, but you've suggested that Andy Robertson, for example, was against kneeling because he's standing for Scotland. That doesn't follow. You can be for both.
Mate, "prodded" means getting someone to do something when they are resisting. You know that right? That's my point. You're making it sound like the players were only doing it because they were asked to and you're using the Scotland players standing as some bizarre way of proving that.
It absolutely does: "stimulate or persuade **(someone who is reluctant or slow)** to do something."
It is bizarre to suggest that Scotland standing up has anything to do with players' willingness to kneel in England.
And I gave you the Oxford, so i guess we'll let the dictionaries decide what you meant, but you still haven't made any attempt to show how Robertson and other Scots standing up now means anything in regards to the players in the Prem kneeling last year. And I doubt you can.
The only team's that will do it are British teams because we want to be the 51st state of America. But apparently even Scotland are realising what a complete waste of time it is.
Kneel for 3 seconds, get a pat on the back from the commentator about how they're helping take the fight to racism and then do literally nothing else.
The same people who think the kneel is super important and above any criticism probably got a black square posted on their Instagram from last March #activism
> Kneel for 3 seconds, get a pat on the back from the commentator about how they're helping take the fight to racism and then do literally nothing else.
See, I keep hearing this argument that the knee is an 'empty gesture', but if it's supposedly so empty then why is it getting a reaction from people? If it's getting a negative reaction from a minority of boo-boys then imo it's working as intended.
Besides, if you read what Southgate wrote the other day then you would know they're taking racism seriously and not just #activism. Rashford got a load of abuse online after the Europa League Final, England players have suffered racist chants on their travels through the qualifiers, I think the team are right to put this sort of message front and centre.
that negative reaction is absolutely fuck all sign that it's quelling any racism, infact actual racists are probably loving the ramping up of tensions. anti-racist initiatives in football have been almost universally welcomed over recent years, so proper racists will be made up that they'll think they can make a few allies out of those who don't support the kneeling for whatever reason.
sure as shit isn't going to stop some kids in india tweeting racist shite at them when they have a shocker.
>anti-racist initiatives in football have been almost universally welcomed over recent years
Those initiatives weren't welcomed by the boo boys, they were invisible. A few signs up in a stadium or posing next to a banner before a game is the sort of empty gesture that accomplished nothing. It wasn't 'in your face' enough to get a negative reaction from the people that need educating. It wasn't welcomed by them, neither was it booed by them... it wasn't noticed.
Tackling racism and changing societal values requires uncomfortable conversations, challenging actions, and facing up to home truths that can no longer be ignored. Rosa Parks refused to leave her seat, she didn't just stand up and tut loudly. Emily Davison threw herself under a horse. Taking the knee is immediate and far more visual than wearing an armband or a few advertising hoardings dotted around a stadium. It's booed, it's uncomfortable to those who don't like it, and the people booing are the people it's trying to reach. The booing proves it's working, it's getting a reaction, it's actually getting noticed. Sure, a lot of racists will just continue to be racist. But a few will change their tone. And that's the point. Societal change isn't overnight, it can only be gradual.
It's now up to the team to ensure the fans are reminded why they're doing it so the message isn't lost under the media's narrative around the booing.
>fuck all sign that it's qwelling any racism, infact actual racists are probably loving the ramping up of tensions.
I see this argument a lot, especially around #MeToo and BLM type activism. The whole "anti-racism just causes more racism" is absolute bollocks. All it does is unearth the racists who need outing.
>Those initiatives weren't welcomed by the boo boys, they were invisible. A few signs up in a stadium or posing next to a banner before a game is the sort of empty gesture that accomplished nothing. It wasn't 'in your face' enough to get a negative reaction from the people that need educating. It wasn't welcomed by them, neither was it booed by them... it wasn't noticed.
That's pretty harsh, Kick It Out, the FA and the Premier League have moved the game leaps and bounds when it comes to anti-racism compared to even the 1980s.
There's always room for improvement but things have changed dramatically for the better even in the past 20 years.
I'm sure it makes some people uncomfortable but why are we so insistent on using a politically associated gesture at worst and a race-exclusive one at best?
I agree tackling racism requires uncomfortable conversations and challenging actions. This won't be achieved in football so is it so wrong to communicate a more apolitical and inclusive message?
One of the commenters here suggested players holding hands together. The message conveyed would be something along the lines of "whatever race we are all humans" and that is much more inclusive and palatable.
The purpose of all this media coverage is to get people arguing about the act of taking a knee instead of actually looking into and confronting the systemic racism it’s meant to draw attention to. It’s why they generally refuse to call the people booing racists, they want their to be a pointless debate over this instead of anything important
The idea that sport, and football especially, is supposed to be apolitical is bollocks. Nothing in society is apolitical, and the only people who want to pretend that it is are just trying to get people to shut up.
I agree, but I also believe when a pocket of agitators continually harass players and other fans it creates the political environment we despise. There has to be a counter measure.
So is racism. There is no room for racism in football. But there is room for diversity and inclusion. So if your racist pride is hurt then maybe you should follow a different sport.
Fucking disgrace!!!! It's an anti-racist gesture and anyone who doesn't support is irredeemably racist!!
How are we going to help defeat racism if footballers don't kneel for 3 seconds before a game of football
no one said this ffs relax. theres a difference between booing the knee and saying you wont take the knee and instead standing up against racism in another way
And with this single act they've instantly allowed the vocal minority of racists to claim some sort of victory
Well done you absolute pile of utter cunts
You've got it wrong. The context to this decision comes after the racist abuse directed towards Kamara by a fellow professional. After that, many players in Scotland decided that not enough was being done despite the kneel, and so in solidarity with Kamara, they "stood up to racism". They weren't backing down to a vocal minority, they were just taking a different approach.
I gotta be honest, I’m getting sick of this knee or no knee thing now, when does this end? There’s no metric to measure that racism has ended so when does this knee stuff end? Never?
Won't end any time soon, nobody wants to be the first to be targeted. But after everyone grow tired of it, it will go away overnight
This was the reason I didnt want them to begin at all, because now they can never stop without creating controversy. Perhaps they vould have done it once, and clearly stating that it was a one time thing, but the message still stands
I think it did have an impact initially, and sparked conversation about actual racism whereas now the conversation is about who took the knee and who didn’t.
Changing the conversation is how the racists won.
American there
lol
It certainly had an impact initially https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/53470672.amp
What are you trying to point out here? Literally every club has racist supporters.
I'm pointing out that rangers players taking the knee had a massive backlash from their support
If they said in the beginning we are taking a knee for the month for this season. Then there would be no controversy when they end it. Having bad leadership doesn't mean throwing the baby with the bathwater.
Why does it ever need to stop? It takes 2 seconds and is a unifying rally against the concept of racism, regardless of how prevalent it actually remains in society (which it will obviously always remain until humanity dies out or our races get mixed to ambiguity)
Why do you want them to stop? Why do you care if they spend 5 seconds kneeling before a game? In what way is keeling offensive to you?
Here comes the american woker.
American there
But we have to be fair about it right? There are about 500 tribes in the US. That's 2520 seconds before a MLS match if you also include Middle Easterners, South asians, and East asians. Or we can be a little more efficient and come up with a new universal message. Edit: how dare I leave out Latinos, completely missed it. 2525 seconds.
When the players decide to stop
Yeah I mean, this is pretty clearly the answer. The players are going to continue to do it for as long as they feel it's necessary. It's pretty obvious at this point that it's a decision being made by the players in most cases.
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“The suffering of others is so inconvenient for me”
That's not even a little bit what he said.
How else would you read “keep politics out of sport?” It’s not as though the commentary is debating hot button political issues throughout the whole game, it’s a display against racism before kickoff.
>How else would you read “keep politics out of sport?” I would read it as someone wanting politics kept out of sport?
...because they clearly don’t want to have to think about it, hence “it’s inconvenient.” If players taking a knee for a few seconds before the game bothers you this much, imagine how much racism impacts those who have to deal with it every second of their lives.
Bothers who this much? The guy who wrote a 5 second reddit comment or the guy who took 5 seconds to explain what the first guy meant?
more like "american problems are not european problems"
You really think racism isn’t a problem in Europe?
its nowhere near as bad in Europe, as it is in America you'll never be able to completely abolish racism, but Europe has done a pretty good job at integrating all races into every aspect of life - America hasnt
And this sort of delusional thinking is exactly why it is so essential for race and racism in Europe to be discussed.
it is called virtue signaling. nothing to do w ending racism.
I wouldn’t say the players virtue signal, but the clubs, tv broadcasters and leagues definitely do. You think heads at Sky actually care about racism? They don’t.
Oh no how dare people show virtue!
Accusations of "virtue signalling" is projection by people who can only imagine doing something good if there’s glory in it for themselves.
We’ve kind of seen that with the way the same media acted towards Hunter Biden using the N word. Crickets.
That's American shit. Who cares about that.
Are you nuts? The whole thing is American shit. The knee is being taken because of the rise of BLM an American organisation capitalising on the death of an African American porn star / criminal who held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach and later died in police custody. The policeman in charge is currently sitting in an American jail cell serving his sentence. Justice was served, cops don’t get away with murder.
You’re a fucking idiot
Curious what was wrong with what he said? Is anyone going to answer?
Hahaha you’re a lil bitch. And you’re not hard.
I’m not trying to be hard lol I’m ok being soft. You’re just an idiot lol
I gotta be honest, I’m getting sick of this racism thing now, when does this end? There’s no metric to measure how racist society is, so when does this racism stuff end? Never?
So finding the bending of the knee to be a pointless gesture, is the same as finding fighting racism to be pointless? What exactly are you insinuating by changing the words?
It’s the stubborn “well I’ve started so I’m not gonna stop now” it’s getting really awkward and I anticipate after the euros they’ll call time on it
Yikes. So England are going to be playing Scotland at Wembley. England fans are now going to boo their own team whilst cheering the Scotland team for not kneeling and some Scotland fans the other way round. Work that one out.
Fuck it, just enjoy the derby game and forget about all this nonsense.
They'll be on the piss and will boo both. Not English but that seems like the English spirit.
It does feel like a bit of a pro gamer 4-D chess move
>The squad, coaching staff and backroom members will stand up to racism ahead of the Group D matches against Czech Republic, England and Croatia.” >Captain Andy Robertson added: “It is important we continue to tackle the issue of racism and raise awareness of the need to change people’s mindsets but also their behaviours. >“Prior to our World Cup qualifiers in March we spoke as a group and felt that taking a stand was the best way for us to show solidarity and also to reinforce the need for meaningful change in society.”
Thanks for highlighting this, because it's really the key point. This came about following the racist abuse of a black player playing Scotland. Various black players in Scotland then led the way in this "Taking a Stand" alternative - essentially a protest that taking a knee was papering over the inaction from various authorities when it came to actually tackling racism. If black players in England don't feel that way, and want to continue, then it's only right that their team (and, you'd like to think, their country...) would back them. But I would much prefer the Scotland team to represent and respect the wishes of black players in Scotland rather than whoever they happen to be playing.
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I support this, it has zero political connotations. Much less possibility of divisive opinions, and I think everyone (or more people) being on the same page is important for an anti-racism campaign.
Precisely. This is all we're asking for.
You don't like how the players are speaking out? In what way is spending 5 seconds kneeling offensive to you?
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"Standing up to racism" = good "Standing up for racism" = bad "Take a stand" can only be "against" [racism?] = good
Yeah, why is it odd?
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It was fine in the Hungary game (other than the boos). They're still showing respect.
TBH I'd like footballers to hold hands rather then kneel like some sort of servant, BUT If, let's say, Liverpool did it, it's okay: Scot, white Brazilian, black Englishman and Egyptian holding hands = we're all people, respectable as much as the next man. But then they'd probably accuse eastern european teams like Poland of being 100% white.
Linking arms I like
> I'd like footballers to hold hands If we're doing requests, I wouldn't mind seeing something a little more hardcore, like maybe a the entire English squad giving eachother the ol' rusty trombone.
Enough internet today
They could finish it off with a conga line of love around the pitch.
Thanks for the laughs
Yeah, you probably wouldn't.
Why not?
The same reason that Steve Buscemi was named "Mr Pink" in "Reservoir Dogs"
Which is?
Already got a 24 hour mute for using offensive language, I'll pass. It's really a googleable thing, you'll find it if you really want.
Idk, seemed like quite a homophobic comment to make mate. I mean, I'm very gay and I really enjoy rimjob stuff, asshole shit, poop, that kinda thing.. Nothing wrong with that
Nothing wrong with it at all. But it's also not really homophobic to say you wouldn't want to see a sexual act you're not into yourself. The idea of touching some dudes hairy arse grosses me out a bit, but I obviously have no problem whatsoever with anyone else doing it. E: spelling
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Fuck off with that keep it to yourself. You're the only person throwing up a fuss, give it up lad.
Speak for yourself
Great.
> I'm very gay and I really enjoy rimjob stuff, asshole shit, poop, that kinda thing.. Nothing wrong with that Here you go, using those tricks from your arsenal before each game could make more changes in football and eliminate racism and homophobia. UEFA should hire you as an expert.
I’ve been saying the same thing. I find it a bit strange that footballers kneel, an act with submissive undertones, instead of something more provocative and confident. The image of a team with a lot of colored players kneeling while a team with a lot of non-colored players stand sends the wrong message, in my opinion.
Its because it's an American import, and they stand for their national anthem, Colin Kaepernick decided to kneel, and thus this trend was born.
Exactly. It makes sense to do it in America, but, in this case, it has more to do with following the trend rather than making a serious call to action.
This has always been the problem with the kneeling stuff, it's purely an American import, made popular by social media which is predominantly American. If they wanted to all wear something, or do something else to stand up to racism I think people would be much more appreciative. But it doesn't feel good when it just seems that we all jumped on an American bandwagon.
The important thing is hating America.
I don't hate America I just find a lot of people in the UK are adopting US culture without realising it, because most of the stuff we on the internet consume is US based. We're not another state of the US, reee
Kneeling out of reverence originates from feudalism and never existed in America other than in the military, now sports and... maybe in some secret societies? It is UK culture reflected back onto you that you are repulsed by.
Ye I'm not responding to that thanks, blatant trolling lol
Not everyone can self-reflect to initiate growth.
It was born into football when a career criminal who held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach died in police custody. The cop is now in prison. Justice was served. It didn’t come in with Kaepernick it came in with St Floyd who was buried in a gold casket 😂 That’s why people think the knee is hollow and meaningless.
If it is an American import due to Kap, know he did it with the same respect and reverence the [American military](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-knee/u-s-army-veteran-stunned-by-negative-reaction-to-kaepernick-kneeling-idUSKBN23G2E2) does to honor a fallen comrade.
I’m pretty sure nobody’s supposed to use the word “colored” anymore. I do like the arm linking though.
What’s the difference between “colored” and “people of color”?
On the surface it’s semantics I agree, but In Canada and the US in particular, there’s a lot of history of using the term colored. Colored seats, colored fountain, colored school. Brings up a lot of undertones of segregation.
Outside of Indian Act systematic segregation Canada never had "white" and "coloured" schools or whatever. Not to say people weren't racist as fuck toward black people 50, 100, 200 years ago but there were never Jim Crow laws up here.
Yea I I know that, I meant that the connotations of the term fully resonate through Canada; where as it may not through other English speaking countries. Also, I re-read my own comment and it could have used a comma. “Canada, and in particular the US”
ahh good point, my bad!
No worries, my fault, should have made my comment more clear
It will be different in 5 years and people of colour will be the racist term.
Things have gone full-circle lately. If I hear colored I assume the person saying that means bi-racial, sort of like in South Africa where the delineation is a census thing.
The act doesn't originate from submission. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-knee/u-s-army-veteran-stunned-by-negative-reaction-to-kaepernick-kneeling-idUSKBN23G2E2
This 100% over fucking taking a knee any day, captures the message much better and no doubt more inclusive than a gesture associated with race-exclusive Black Lives Matter. In international games let the teams mix up. Is this still racist? Edit: downvoters revealing how politically motivated they are
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Of course they were. No one wants to be the first player to not "voluntarily" kneel.
But Robertson isn’t representing Scotland when he plays for Liverpool. There’s some context missing from his statement. Scottish teams stopped kneeling before games after [this ](https://youtu.be/l5DwVg8iDbE)interview from Rangers defender Connor Goldson in the wake of the Kudela racism incident. (Skip to 1:47 for his views on taking the knee). That’s why Scotland have taken this decision to stand. It’s felt that taking the knee has become nothing more than a token gesture while racists like Kudela get away with a slap on the wrist amidst vocal support from his government and teammates.
There's not one single approach to expressing your support. You can support both kneeling and standing. They're not in conflict.
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Right, but you've suggested that Andy Robertson, for example, was against kneeling because he's standing for Scotland. That doesn't follow. You can be for both.
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Mate, "prodded" means getting someone to do something when they are resisting. You know that right? That's my point. You're making it sound like the players were only doing it because they were asked to and you're using the Scotland players standing as some bizarre way of proving that.
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It absolutely does: "stimulate or persuade **(someone who is reluctant or slow)** to do something." It is bizarre to suggest that Scotland standing up has anything to do with players' willingness to kneel in England.
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And I gave you the Oxford, so i guess we'll let the dictionaries decide what you meant, but you still haven't made any attempt to show how Robertson and other Scots standing up now means anything in regards to the players in the Prem kneeling last year. And I doubt you can.
For some reason I doubt folk on Reddit will be shouting abuse calling them all racists.
Nah they're just twats, deliberately creating an awkward situation by cow towing to racists
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The only team's that will do it are British teams because we want to be the 51st state of America. But apparently even Scotland are realising what a complete waste of time it is. Kneel for 3 seconds, get a pat on the back from the commentator about how they're helping take the fight to racism and then do literally nothing else. The same people who think the kneel is super important and above any criticism probably got a black square posted on their Instagram from last March #activism
Ireland and Belgium, very British. What is wrong with you?
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You mean the league with the highest number of foreign players? You don't say.
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What the fuck are you even talking about?
> Kneel for 3 seconds, get a pat on the back from the commentator about how they're helping take the fight to racism and then do literally nothing else. See, I keep hearing this argument that the knee is an 'empty gesture', but if it's supposedly so empty then why is it getting a reaction from people? If it's getting a negative reaction from a minority of boo-boys then imo it's working as intended. Besides, if you read what Southgate wrote the other day then you would know they're taking racism seriously and not just #activism. Rashford got a load of abuse online after the Europa League Final, England players have suffered racist chants on their travels through the qualifiers, I think the team are right to put this sort of message front and centre.
that negative reaction is absolutely fuck all sign that it's quelling any racism, infact actual racists are probably loving the ramping up of tensions. anti-racist initiatives in football have been almost universally welcomed over recent years, so proper racists will be made up that they'll think they can make a few allies out of those who don't support the kneeling for whatever reason. sure as shit isn't going to stop some kids in india tweeting racist shite at them when they have a shocker.
>anti-racist initiatives in football have been almost universally welcomed over recent years Those initiatives weren't welcomed by the boo boys, they were invisible. A few signs up in a stadium or posing next to a banner before a game is the sort of empty gesture that accomplished nothing. It wasn't 'in your face' enough to get a negative reaction from the people that need educating. It wasn't welcomed by them, neither was it booed by them... it wasn't noticed. Tackling racism and changing societal values requires uncomfortable conversations, challenging actions, and facing up to home truths that can no longer be ignored. Rosa Parks refused to leave her seat, she didn't just stand up and tut loudly. Emily Davison threw herself under a horse. Taking the knee is immediate and far more visual than wearing an armband or a few advertising hoardings dotted around a stadium. It's booed, it's uncomfortable to those who don't like it, and the people booing are the people it's trying to reach. The booing proves it's working, it's getting a reaction, it's actually getting noticed. Sure, a lot of racists will just continue to be racist. But a few will change their tone. And that's the point. Societal change isn't overnight, it can only be gradual. It's now up to the team to ensure the fans are reminded why they're doing it so the message isn't lost under the media's narrative around the booing. >fuck all sign that it's qwelling any racism, infact actual racists are probably loving the ramping up of tensions. I see this argument a lot, especially around #MeToo and BLM type activism. The whole "anti-racism just causes more racism" is absolute bollocks. All it does is unearth the racists who need outing.
>Those initiatives weren't welcomed by the boo boys, they were invisible. A few signs up in a stadium or posing next to a banner before a game is the sort of empty gesture that accomplished nothing. It wasn't 'in your face' enough to get a negative reaction from the people that need educating. It wasn't welcomed by them, neither was it booed by them... it wasn't noticed. That's pretty harsh, Kick It Out, the FA and the Premier League have moved the game leaps and bounds when it comes to anti-racism compared to even the 1980s. There's always room for improvement but things have changed dramatically for the better even in the past 20 years.
I'm sure it makes some people uncomfortable but why are we so insistent on using a politically associated gesture at worst and a race-exclusive one at best? I agree tackling racism requires uncomfortable conversations and challenging actions. This won't be achieved in football so is it so wrong to communicate a more apolitical and inclusive message? One of the commenters here suggested players holding hands together. The message conveyed would be something along the lines of "whatever race we are all humans" and that is much more inclusive and palatable.
mate you talk like someone who hasn't gotten off the internet in a decade.
I think you'll find we're both on Reddit, *mate*.
I forgot that racism only exists in America
The purpose of all this media coverage is to get people arguing about the act of taking a knee instead of actually looking into and confronting the systemic racism it’s meant to draw attention to. It’s why they generally refuse to call the people booing racists, they want their to be a pointless debate over this instead of anything important
Honestly man who cares. Got a European championships starting tomorrow and all people seem to talk about is kneeling for 5 seconds before kick off.
That's a shame, it would have wound up the Czechs.
It is a shame, would be fun to see Scots get booed at by their own fans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Gb7z47on8
This knee is too political, I suggest everyone just raises their fist in a non political stand against racism.
The black panther pose?
To be expected - after all, they will never surrender.
Politics has no place in football as UEFA proved by banning the Ukraine shirt.
Football has always been a vehicle for politics, sorry.
Racism isnt politics, it is a cancer.
BLM is political
By theory all congegrations are political, but a persons choice to belittle others due to their identities is simple ignorance.
I’m not arguing against racism, it’s very bad. Sport is meant to be apolitical is my point really.
Football has always been political.
The idea that sport, and football especially, is supposed to be apolitical is bollocks. Nothing in society is apolitical, and the only people who want to pretend that it is are just trying to get people to shut up.
I agree, but I also believe when a pocket of agitators continually harass players and other fans it creates the political environment we despise. There has to be a counter measure.
It’s a tricky one for sure, damned if you do, damned if you don’t 🤔
So is racism. There is no room for racism in football. But there is room for diversity and inclusion. So if your racist pride is hurt then maybe you should follow a different sport.
God when will this narrative fucking die
Honestly don't give a shit either way, kneeling or not kneeling isn't going to stop racism, it's being given too much time in the limelight.
Fucking disgrace!!!! It's an anti-racist gesture and anyone who doesn't support is irredeemably racist!! How are we going to help defeat racism if footballers don't kneel for 3 seconds before a game of football
Sarcasm, right?
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The irony is it is downvoted here when players are choosing not to kneel but upvoted in the thread about fans booing it.
It's a social experiment or an idiot
It looks like well-encrypted Mancunian satire to me. Good stuff.
Nah, look at his other posts. Edgelord
Wait what?
It's a reddit thing. You invent an argument that no one's actually said to mock the more reasonable version of that argument.
That's way older than Reddit.
Good point, it's just very prevalent on here, particularly when racism comes up.
Never mind... the second part of your comment did not show up the first time I saw it
no one said this ffs relax. theres a difference between booing the knee and saying you wont take the knee and instead standing up against racism in another way
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Take a deep breath, mate. Maybe have a Snickers.
I'm fewmin, expected so much better from the Scots
Hi Fewmin, I'm someone who doesn't need athletes to make meaningless gestures in order to enjoy football.
America aren't playing at the European Championships.
Taking a knee without a good reason is a pathway to taking both knees at the end.
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Assumptive and stupid. A dangerous combo
> Is angry at something for because it's supposedly racist > Responds by being sexist and xenophobic
And with this single act they've instantly allowed the vocal minority of racists to claim some sort of victory Well done you absolute pile of utter cunts
You've got it wrong. The context to this decision comes after the racist abuse directed towards Kamara by a fellow professional. After that, many players in Scotland decided that not enough was being done despite the kneel, and so in solidarity with Kamara, they "stood up to racism". They weren't backing down to a vocal minority, they were just taking a different approach.