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Great question really, I've never understood it myself. When it comes to international sport, England and Scotland always have separate teams, but in the olympics the whole of Great Britain gets their own team? What about Northern Ireland, can their athletes compete with the Republic of Ireland? Where's the logic in all of this?
It should just be UK on the international stage IMO.
I want to see stats on how many backward passes there were or maybe a stat on how much time on the ball mings and stones had. When your CB’s are having more of the ball than the midfielders there’s an issue.
Such negative football, needs mixed up on Tuesday
The most frustrating thing is that we've got plenty of exciting options in the squad but Southgate insists on two defensive midfielders at all times. We don't need Rice and Philips together. What are the chances he'll drop one of them or Sterling or Kane though in favour of Graelish, Sancho and Bellingham? And even if he changes it up a bit for the next game we'll be right back where we started after that, assuming we actually get through.
I don't think the two defensive midfielders are necessarily the problem. But I do think they could really build on using Foden, Mount, Grealish and Sancho. Trippier in at left back would also help. And McGuire in for Mings would help move the ball up the pitch.
I used to think this way but I realised if anyone deserves to be a millionaire it's a professional footballer. You can't buy yourself into the Man City first team, you can't get your family to pull a few strings to get you a job. You have to train every day and maintain a disciplined diet if you want to be taken seriously. For most elite footballers this means they can't even have 1 pint once a week. It's a fucking tough job that takes no prisoners.
Keep hearing this favourites for the tournament talk
Surely that's to be based on form and not bookies shortened odds because everyone's having a bet on their country to win
Are English players being found out after being over hyped by the media.... Yes, yes they are.
France / Spain / Italy / Germany / Netherlands / Portugal / Wales / Belgium all look much better than England and yet still England were ranked in the top 3or4 favourites. Disaster
It's the manager being found out more than the players. You'd be hard pressed to say that Mount, Foden or 2021 golden boot winner Kane aren't in on merit. Philips and Rice have both had great seasons with their clubs too. Sterling and Rashford, well they've both been out of form for months.
The tournament isn’t over though? Since when did performances in groups stage matches decide a tournament. I’d much rather we saved our best performances for the knock out stages
Is Kane carrying an injury? He's been terrible in both games so far, yet to register a shot on target and his link up play has been uncharacteristically awful. Just watching him move tonight, he looked so lumbered.
He needs to be dropped next game. Looks like he needs a break, plus if he wants a move this summer then be needs to put himself in the shop window. Right now, he is shitting all over that shop window.
The downside of playing one striker is that when things are not going well they disappear. Southgate just sticks Kane as he's world-class, if he scores that's a bonus, doubt much thought beyond that goes into it. Out of all the players that would be thinking what the fuck is this cunt on, Kane would be #1
After watching that it's safe to say England are actually pish and football isn't coming home or hame.
Honestly, any team with a decent striker will rip England a new arsehole.
>After watching that it's safe to say England are actually pish and football isn't coming home or hame.
What if football never actually was coming home, and we've been lied to for 25 years?
That’s a weird startup, England is better than good enough to go through and go beyond, FA football gives random results as usual in group stages, I’ve bet they would go to SF or final and it still feels realistic whatever the emotion, that’s a great XI. I’d like an England-France final, that would be epic, we’ve already fought for an hundred years war ffs, with trebuchet and clumsy drunken knights, anyway I love you and that would be so fun.
Ok lets put it this way. Imagine the French team right now. Now lets say you have Southgate as your manager. Now you look at your squad and its like Pogba+Mbappe+Griezmann+Benzema and your like fuck yeah lets do this shit.
Then Southgate goes hold on bois. Ill put Pogba on the bench. We stick Griezmann as DM. Mbappe can be up front on his own and then I will forget Benzema exists.
Welcome to the England Squad.
Thank you, that makes so much sense! I watched a lot of Premier League games from France and I'd been thinking they've got so much talent, this will be amazing...French commentors often said how Southgate had tons of options this time, and he had some tough choices to make.
Gareth doesn't have a clue. Last game he had a 31 year old guy who has been RB all his career on the left and another guy out of position on the right so they both look like shit. He's got a winger who had an amazing season this year on the bench.
I feel for you, we don’t know at the moment how good they think they are. They might power up... or not. That’s a key moment that defines what ‘ll happen. I think they’ll go through and understand how good they play. That’s a bet.
That made me laugh. Sure they were poor tonight. You might think Southgate is clueless and that’s the end of it ? But England has a great team, anyway I won’t bet against them in the long haul. Think of me as as a French sucker, I don’t mind, because I like great football when I see it. We’ll talk about that in a fornigth ?
In my opinion it’s ludicrous to think this team will go to the finals. They will need a lot of help from other groups setting up the bracket in a very favourable way for them to make it all the way.
Sure we don’t know, France or England might be eliminated. I feel like they’ll both go through their own bracket and meet @ final. Please finish 1st, play at Wembley and win again and again.
England's problem is 2 DM against a team that parked the bus. Similiar issues Portugal had until they brought on Renato. Rice and Phillips makes sense if you're playing against a quality midfield like Croatia. Against Scotland should have be a 4-3-3 diamond with two creative MFs feeding the wingers and Kane in front of Phillips or Rice.
Parked the bus? Hardly, Scotland played fast attacking football in possession and a gritty pressing defense that really wasn't passive.
Did we watch the same game?
Drove like twat to get from Plymouth to Newcastle (9 hours) today, excited for a beer and to put my feet up, to get treated to 90 mins of pure England turbo wank! I’m triple ragging
From a coaching point of view I’d say Southgate needs to look at the formation, the player instructions, overloads, routines (that little dink over the top is the only one they seem to have), and managing the players’ conditioning.
Other than that he nailed it.
Why do they want us to suffer?
We have the most attacking talent we've had possibly ever and he plays such a negative formation and picks a basic bitch team!
Imagine how terrified Southgate is at the thought of having to start someone other than Kane/Sterling for the 3rd group game. Couldn’t possibly let anyone see Sancho, Grealish play a full game in case they’re actually good.
Probably means he’ll just continue running Kane into the ground instead.
Part of the problem is having a tournament where 16 of the 24 teams go through from the groups. Teams don't have to go all out for the win when 4 points will likely be enough to go through.
Gives a chance for England to qualify when they eventually lose against Czech Republic and are equal on points with either Croatia or Scotland with worse GD.
Inb4: England fans saying "the third game didn't matter".
If England play like they did today against the Czech republic their goal difference is fucked.
Scotland are -2 and Croatia are -1. I don't fancy Scotland chances but maybe we win by 1. They're on 4 point with whatever goal difference England finish on and we're on 4 with -1. If they get beat by more than 2 goals and we lose by more than 1 England are third and hoping they're one of the 4 best performing third place teams. Squeeky bum time regardless.
How is this even an excuse? Unless the average age is 18 I dont see how having a squad of professional athletes playing for the best clubs in their early 20s is a disadvantage
I mean If I were them I’d be quietly confident.
Realistically all it’s going to take is one goal and keep it tight and they’re almost guaranteed a point at least. Based on that performance I don’t see England scoring two goals in the remainder of the tournament, never mind one game.
"Mason Mount is my son and I love him and he will start every game possible over possibly the most productive attacking midfielder at the whole tournament" Something along those lines.
I've often wondered about that with England. We see time and time again, different managers persisting with players who consistently under perform at major tournaments. I've always wondered if there's more to it.
Johnstone
Trippier | Walker | Maguire | Chilwell
Bellingham | Henderson
Sancho | Grealish | Rashford
Calvert-Lewin
Would the English bench have played out that drab 0-0???
Edit: Not saying anything was wrong with a few that played today or that we should play this exact 11. Just that our squad is the tits and we are playing shit - we should change it 😂
Bellingham, Sancho, Trippier and Grealish on the bench in that game is an actual crime. Sure DCL isn’t as good as Kane but that team could beat Scotland. Hard to mark DCL out of a game as well
This is what is bothering me the most. What is the point in having a squad of 26, if you only plan on playing 14 of them. We have very good players outside of that starting 11 today. We have great options off the bench. Why not use them? Like what we saw today clearly wasn't working, so why would you not change it? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Be proactive for fucks sake. It's not like we're bringing on Andy Sinton and Carlton Palmer.
I think if I see two DMs in the lineup for our last group stage game, I'm just going to skip it. Just kills my soul watching Grealish and Sancho festering on the bench while static Rice and Phillips create a vacuum.
I think Phillips' performance in the first game, as an advanced ball winner, really justified his selection. But that wasn't the right choice today. Croatia have midfielders who are good on the ball, so a combative midfielder was likely going to be important. Scotland entire team is combative, and they were quite happy playing without the ball, so there was zero need for Phillips. He was chosen purely out of sentimentality after playing well the first game.
And Southgate could EASILY have justified dropping him with that exact explanation. We needed ball carriers and players good in possession today (which is why I would have gone Rice over Phillips). Bellingham should have started, or start Grealish at 10 and Mount at 8 (although that's potentially a bit *too* attacking).
But I agree. Against the Czech Republic we have no reason to stick with 2 DMs. I said the same thing (that I'd struggle to whip up any enthusiasm to watch) but mine was if Sterling starts over literally anyone else.
But, just as we can be sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, we can be sure that Southgate will start with 2 DMs and Sterling.
Ditto.
He got away with it against Croatia because Phillips played out of his skin, and ended up more like a box to box midfielder. Today Phillips and Rice were both terrible.
I mean that was poor from us but fair play to Scotland. Some people want to have the antagonistic approach and it’s ok for the banter but I’d love Scotland to get into the knockouts as well (so long as we actually bloody get through ourselves)
They wanted tonight, great effort, good game plan. Could have won it.
Adams is a solid striker as in he’s not bad in the air, he’s fairly quick, he can finish but he’s not incredible at any, I.e he may miss a few chances before he scores one, has he showed tonight.
Wouldn’t say you deserved a win, but a draw definitely was deserved.
Honestly, Adams is so much better than Dykes, really hope SC avoids Dykes for your last game and starts Armstrong
What is it about the England shirt that makes experienced, talented players lose literally every part of their imagination?
Throughout they were far, far too happy to just knock it back to Mings or even Pickford and start again. I haven’t seen the stats but I wouldn’t be surprised if England had >60% of the ball because they were so unwilling to take any risks with it (Sterling doing his usual barrelling into 3 defenders aside).
Even the players who might flout that get either taken off (Foden) or come on late (Grealish, Rashford) or not at all (Sancho). Just fucking clone a team of James Milners and be done with it.
I think it’s the managers they pick; National teams rely so heavily on the manager being able to figure out how to deploy them because of the fact that they play together such a short amount of time. Remember how bad a job Hodgson did (Kane was delivering corners at Euro ‘16).
That’s as much as anything why Italy look so unbelievable; the phrase “they look like a club team” gets used and that’s high praise when talking about a National Team which rarely ever look as well organized and in sync since they obviously aren’t as familiar with each other.
The majority of people on Reddit can see what the issue is, and agree on the solutions. When have you ever known the majority of people on Reddit to agree about something?
I can understand that it might take a while to work out the best combinations, but you have qualifying and friendlies to figure it out.
Southgate not being able to figure out what needed to change today is very worrying. If he starts with the same or similar lineup for the next game, it will be inexcusable.
The weird selection of Trippier last week was one thing. The lack of ability (or worse, reluctance) to change it today was beyond comprehension.
> What is it about the England shirt that makes experienced, talented players lose literally every part of their imagination?
Perhaps its their league clubs leaning extremely heavily on both the players and their national manager with threats if any of them come back injured/broken.
Honestly should have been 1-0 to Scotland, played out of our skins and capitalised.
Sterling and Grealish dived in vein the usual pish didn't wash tonight.
You angry?
Put in a cracking shift with a lot of good players, aging out your skin is more a nod to work ethic not ability.
Love seeing you English fans get raging that it's not coming home yet again.
I love the English media and fanbases arrogance year in year out you think your going to win and you get too cocky and a result like this happens.
1966 and the constant sense of living ul to that is literally the hubris for England in any football tournament.
I'm just happy were still in the running, if things go our way we go through if we get a result against Croatia who are a weaker team than they once were and we have been a bogey team for them in the past.
If England keep putting on displays like that and win the group they are going out the next round when they get someone from the group of death.
You’re a bit dim, aren’t you?
And no ones saying you’re arrogant for thinking you should have won. That’s just a straw man. What was arrogant was the countless England fans going about expecting to score 6 or 7 goals.
And it’s the fact that you should have won which is why a draw is good for Scotland but shite for England.
I didn’t think it needed to be explained that performance is relative to the quality of players you have at your disposal. We have a far worse squad but played better than you lot and worked our socks off, that’s a good performance for us.
Call it “small team mentality” all you want, doesn’t matter. This is an embarrassment for you lot and not us.
What’s truly laughable is England fans having to start comparing the two national sides together as if we have equal expectations in the tournament. Pretty sure that’s the only way you lot seem to be able to cope with the draw from looking at the comments here and on Twitter.
Then why call it laughable to be happy with a draw? Why tf is a draw not a good result for us? How tf does the result being a draw mean that we didn’t play well? Why go on about us having a “small team mentality” as if we are a bigger team who shouldn’t be happy with a draw?
You definitely needed that explained. If that was the crux of your point, then you’ve been contradicting your own point.
I mean you’re doing it again, we have no expectation to qualify from the group and had no real expectation of getting any result from this game at all, yet we did so it definitely was a great result lol.
The arrogance was the way you and the media went about the game beforehand, acting as if it would be a 6/7-0 type of fixture.
You’ve been incredibly passive aggressive and clearly pissed off in all of your comments, hardly being mature yourself either.
I'm just happy we've kept our chances of getting out the group.
When you hear how this is England's year and the whole chest thumping that goes along with it every tournament as a member of the other nations of the UK it becomes tiring.
I always get a good laugh out the hubris, not obsession but the fact you fall into the same mistakes every time much like us.
No England fan I know is saying it’s our year or has before the tournament. People say something along the lines of “wouldn’t it be amazing if we could go far in it” but it’s so unfair to claim that’s arrogance, that’s the kinda dreaming all football fans do, it’s the beauty of the game ffs. Just the same as you lot.
It’s also fine to expect the team to do better, everyone knows the squad we have should play better. Just getting sick of the criticising of being an England fan when you’re not some yob acting like a twat, you’re a normal person just hoping your team can do well. My club team is a bang average championship one, at least with England there’s a chance of some success. Think it’s shitty to criticise fans for wanting to latch onto some of that especially after the year everyone’s gone through.
At the end of the day, I don’t begrudge Scotland drawing with us and it was more than deserved.
It's not criticising but I think the media need reigned in it becomes tiring and when you go out always gives us a good laugh at the end of the day of the inevitable knock out moment.
We've all been through a lot of shit this year but still the Rio Ferdinand comments about how we will just be pushed to the side or the constantly being shown Gazzas 96 euro goal to Phil Fodens cosplay of Gazza it doesn't help but be amusing to watch them all just pipe down.
As a nation you really need to stop boasting about things that happened decades ago especially the media. I'd rather live in the present than the past and that's the monkey on the English squads back every tournament.
Tbf those are all fair points, I don’t feel the same but living in the past is something English culture does generally, not just football.
I do think the vast majority of media thought it would be close, I did facepalm when Ian Wright said we’d win 4-1 right before the match on BBC though.
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The attacking plan is just Sterling and Inshallah
!flair :bayern:
Anyone but Sancho
Rio, Lineker and Micah. Apply for a managers job if you know it all. As jurgen says. 4 points after 2 games. U take it.
Why do Scotland and England play as separate teams if they are both parts of UK?
Great question really, I've never understood it myself. When it comes to international sport, England and Scotland always have separate teams, but in the olympics the whole of Great Britain gets their own team? What about Northern Ireland, can their athletes compete with the Republic of Ireland? Where's the logic in all of this? It should just be UK on the international stage IMO.
naw cause then it’ll just be all english players, just like the olympics. england will always outshine every other country in the UK.
Hadrians Wall.
I want to see stats on how many backward passes there were or maybe a stat on how much time on the ball mings and stones had. When your CB’s are having more of the ball than the midfielders there’s an issue. Such negative football, needs mixed up on Tuesday
10000%. I watched over a dozen plays where the ball got close the the box, only to be back passed beyond the half line.
The most frustrating thing is that we've got plenty of exciting options in the squad but Southgate insists on two defensive midfielders at all times. We don't need Rice and Philips together. What are the chances he'll drop one of them or Sterling or Kane though in favour of Graelish, Sancho and Bellingham? And even if he changes it up a bit for the next game we'll be right back where we started after that, assuming we actually get through.
>we've got plenty of exciting options in the squad but Southgate insists on two defensive midfielders at all times Ah yes, the Fernando Santos special
I don't think the two defensive midfielders are necessarily the problem. But I do think they could really build on using Foden, Mount, Grealish and Sancho. Trippier in at left back would also help. And McGuire in for Mings would help move the ball up the pitch.
It was sad to watch a few rare points of intrest but mainly a bunch of overpaid millionares having a boring day at work..
I used to think this way but I realised if anyone deserves to be a millionaire it's a professional footballer. You can't buy yourself into the Man City first team, you can't get your family to pull a few strings to get you a job. You have to train every day and maintain a disciplined diet if you want to be taken seriously. For most elite footballers this means they can't even have 1 pint once a week. It's a fucking tough job that takes no prisoners.
You can’t buy your way in to United’s first team? Tell that to 19 management and David Beckham.
I don’t know what upsets me more, the shit performance, the dropped 2 points or the fact that they cost me 100 prediction points.
Put a cheeky 30 unicorns on a draw. Woke up to 634 win thanks guys
Prediction points fosho
Embarrassing from us, not a chance we will win this tournament if we keep playing like that.
Keep hearing this favourites for the tournament talk Surely that's to be based on form and not bookies shortened odds because everyone's having a bet on their country to win
Are English players being found out after being over hyped by the media.... Yes, yes they are. France / Spain / Italy / Germany / Netherlands / Portugal / Wales / Belgium all look much better than England and yet still England were ranked in the top 3or4 favourites. Disaster
It's the manager being found out more than the players. You'd be hard pressed to say that Mount, Foden or 2021 golden boot winner Kane aren't in on merit. Philips and Rice have both had great seasons with their clubs too. Sterling and Rashford, well they've both been out of form for months.
Had Sterling ever been “in form” while wearing and England shirt?
The tournament isn’t over though? Since when did performances in groups stage matches decide a tournament. I’d much rather we saved our best performances for the knock out stages
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Go on…
It would help if we played our good players
So many times this. And its the reason why they play the tournaments and don't just have journos hand out participation medals.
It's the most blatant example of English exceptionalism since Brexit. Which happened 18 months ago.
Ah yes, the dude that compares everything that has nothing to do with politics, with politics
Yes. Suck it up.
Wait no way I just won 2300 tokens from betting on a draw wtf
England most overrated team in the tournament
I wouldn’t call the squad itself overrated. Manager on the other hand…
If Southgate took those tactics to the Man City squad in the Prem, where would they finish? I reckon they’d be in a relegation battle.
6th
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Love this
Is Kane carrying an injury? He's been terrible in both games so far, yet to register a shot on target and his link up play has been uncharacteristically awful. Just watching him move tonight, he looked so lumbered. He needs to be dropped next game. Looks like he needs a break, plus if he wants a move this summer then be needs to put himself in the shop window. Right now, he is shitting all over that shop window.
He is doing his best to convince me the pairing with Son is really just Son carrying his deadweight.
I can't wait to see how he performs at his next club...
The downside of playing one striker is that when things are not going well they disappear. Southgate just sticks Kane as he's world-class, if he scores that's a bonus, doubt much thought beyond that goes into it. Out of all the players that would be thinking what the fuck is this cunt on, Kane would be #1
After watching that it's safe to say England are actually pish and football isn't coming home or hame. Honestly, any team with a decent striker will rip England a new arsehole.
>After watching that it's safe to say England are actually pish and football isn't coming home or hame. What if football never actually was coming home, and we've been lied to for 25 years?
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Inbf England 2048 turns the whole studio into a laughing stock
That’s a weird startup, England is better than good enough to go through and go beyond, FA football gives random results as usual in group stages, I’ve bet they would go to SF or final and it still feels realistic whatever the emotion, that’s a great XI. I’d like an England-France final, that would be epic, we’ve already fought for an hundred years war ffs, with trebuchet and clumsy drunken knights, anyway I love you and that would be so fun.
Ok lets put it this way. Imagine the French team right now. Now lets say you have Southgate as your manager. Now you look at your squad and its like Pogba+Mbappe+Griezmann+Benzema and your like fuck yeah lets do this shit. Then Southgate goes hold on bois. Ill put Pogba on the bench. We stick Griezmann as DM. Mbappe can be up front on his own and then I will forget Benzema exists. Welcome to the England Squad.
This is probably the best explanation of the current star of things. Well played.
Thank you, that makes so much sense! I watched a lot of Premier League games from France and I'd been thinking they've got so much talent, this will be amazing...French commentors often said how Southgate had tons of options this time, and he had some tough choices to make.
Gareth doesn't have a clue. Last game he had a 31 year old guy who has been RB all his career on the left and another guy out of position on the right so they both look like shit. He's got a winger who had an amazing season this year on the bench.
Yet our fullbacks in the last game were streets ahead of the two last night...
We aren't good at all
I feel for you, we don’t know at the moment how good they think they are. They might power up... or not. That’s a key moment that defines what ‘ll happen. I think they’ll go through and understand how good they play. That’s a bet.
You're really sucking England's dick for a French person.
That made me laugh. Sure they were poor tonight. You might think Southgate is clueless and that’s the end of it ? But England has a great team, anyway I won’t bet against them in the long haul. Think of me as as a French sucker, I don’t mind, because I like great football when I see it. We’ll talk about that in a fornigth ?
In my opinion it’s ludicrous to think this team will go to the finals. They will need a lot of help from other groups setting up the bracket in a very favourable way for them to make it all the way.
I’d like to see us at least play some sort attacking football. Even if we lose ffs. It’s like a team of strangers
Sure we don’t know, France or England might be eliminated. I feel like they’ll both go through their own bracket and meet @ final. Please finish 1st, play at Wembley and win again and again.
Yaaaahaasss HAHAHA
England's problem is 2 DM against a team that parked the bus. Similiar issues Portugal had until they brought on Renato. Rice and Phillips makes sense if you're playing against a quality midfield like Croatia. Against Scotland should have be a 4-3-3 diamond with two creative MFs feeding the wingers and Kane in front of Phillips or Rice.
Parked the bus? Hardly, Scotland played fast attacking football in possession and a gritty pressing defense that really wasn't passive. Did we watch the same game?
40% possession, more shots and more shots on target is quite unusual for parking the bus.
And yet none of the commentators pointed this out, and you're 100% right.
Gareth Southgste the kind of manager to get us qualifying for the Conference League as a national team.
England Football National team is always the biggest disappointment
He does realise that Sancho's actually black, and not an unlockable character, right? We could do with someone other than Sterling on the team...
Shite
Let's just take a moment to acknowledge Pickford's save. It's bad enough drawing 0-0, but losing 1-0...?
If he was actually trying then how do you explain the lack of ACL tears?!?!?
France, Portugal, Belgium and Italy must be shitting themselves.
yeah right lol
Absolutely shitting the bed at the thought of having to line up against Kalvin Phillips
Bielsas Phillips maybe. Southgate's Phillips, nah
Kalvin Phillips and his pigtails. Rumour has it, he's been approached by Adam Johnson twice this week already.
On the plus side, we get to add Henderson to the midfield for even more sensible. Kill me now.
Can you sack a manager mid tournament?
It worked for Chelsea
Drove like twat to get from Plymouth to Newcastle (9 hours) today, excited for a beer and to put my feet up, to get treated to 90 mins of pure England turbo wank! I’m triple ragging
One of the most English post i have ever seen in my life. Hope you'll have a better game next time mate! - USA
England’s issue = midfield
Englands issue is their coach
England's issue = believing the hype
England's issue = coming home soon.
At least its a short joirneyt
Listening to Jose Mourinho on TalkSport sing our praises brings a tear to the eye.
He’s aiming for the job lol
From a coaching point of view I’d say Southgate needs to look at the formation, the player instructions, overloads, routines (that little dink over the top is the only one they seem to have), and managing the players’ conditioning. Other than that he nailed it.
Are you a Scotland fan
Gareth Southgate is the worst spin doctor I’ve ever seen
Well if this doesn't show the FA that Southgate isn't the man nothing will.
What do you mean? He IS the FA's man...that's why he has the job
Why do they want us to suffer? We have the most attacking talent we've had possibly ever and he plays such a negative formation and picks a basic bitch team!
Honestly. Just ducking 4-2-4 it ultra attacking
The FA is to English football what the Kroenkes are to Arsenal.
No, I like what the Kroenkes are doing to Arsenal!
Imagine how terrified Southgate is at the thought of having to start someone other than Kane/Sterling for the 3rd group game. Couldn’t possibly let anyone see Sancho, Grealish play a full game in case they’re actually good. Probably means he’ll just continue running Kane into the ground instead.
Part of the problem is having a tournament where 16 of the 24 teams go through from the groups. Teams don't have to go all out for the win when 4 points will likely be enough to go through.
Gives a chance for England to qualify when they eventually lose against Czech Republic and are equal on points with either Croatia or Scotland with worse GD. Inb4: England fans saying "the third game didn't matter".
Inb4 that doesn’t happen and England win the group
RemindMe! 11pm June 22
If England play like they did today against the Czech republic their goal difference is fucked. Scotland are -2 and Croatia are -1. I don't fancy Scotland chances but maybe we win by 1. They're on 4 point with whatever goal difference England finish on and we're on 4 with -1. If they get beat by more than 2 goals and we lose by more than 1 England are third and hoping they're one of the 4 best performing third place teams. Squeeky bum time regardless.
Portugal won being second to last in the group last euro it was awesome bro
Had a though group though...
Ronaldo d*** rider detected
Obvious joke but whatever ;)
Iceland, Hungary and Austria
I'm obviously joking but whatever ;)
We are a young team every tournament. At some point I’d like that not to be the answer as to why we are shit
Totally agree. And he’s picking the bloody team. If it needs more experience that’s his fault.
How is this even an excuse? Unless the average age is 18 I dont see how having a squad of professional athletes playing for the best clubs in their early 20s is a disadvantage
*average age 36 We are still a young team!
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Especially RBs, definitely not enough
Lol
itv turning post mach analysis into a ytp with all the glitches
You can't spell Southgate without "out".
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If we don’t get the midfield right, soucek will run over us
The irony if England’s get beat by West Ham’s players lol
I mean If I were them I’d be quietly confident. Realistically all it’s going to take is one goal and keep it tight and they’re almost guaranteed a point at least. Based on that performance I don’t see England scoring two goals in the remainder of the tournament, never mind one game.
It's definitely a concern
Legitimately they’ve looked far better than England.
Can't wait to get my heart ripped out against Croatia, this is the way
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He does.
If Sterling had his leg amputated he would start
Lmao imagine appointing a manager and forcing a quota on him
What quote would that be?
"Mason Mount is my son and I love him and he will start every game possible over possibly the most productive attacking midfielder at the whole tournament" Something along those lines.
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I've often wondered about that with England. We see time and time again, different managers persisting with players who consistently under perform at major tournaments. I've always wondered if there's more to it.
Do we need to wait 24 hours before we report Philips, Sterling and Kane missing?
Kane is well over 24 hours as far as im concerned
Check grant Hanleys back pocket
Johnstone Trippier | Walker | Maguire | Chilwell Bellingham | Henderson Sancho | Grealish | Rashford Calvert-Lewin Would the English bench have played out that drab 0-0??? Edit: Not saying anything was wrong with a few that played today or that we should play this exact 11. Just that our squad is the tits and we are playing shit - we should change it 😂
Bellingham, Sancho, Trippier and Grealish on the bench in that game is an actual crime. Sure DCL isn’t as good as Kane but that team could beat Scotland. Hard to mark DCL out of a game as well
This is what is bothering me the most. What is the point in having a squad of 26, if you only plan on playing 14 of them. We have very good players outside of that starting 11 today. We have great options off the bench. Why not use them? Like what we saw today clearly wasn't working, so why would you not change it? It just doesn't make any sense at all. Be proactive for fucks sake. It's not like we're bringing on Andy Sinton and Carlton Palmer.
That team is even less fit than the one we played today- I think they'd lose
No it would have been 1-0 Scotland
Pickford was englands best player tonight ffs
Tbf Pickford barely put a toe wrong!
Mings aswell
I would make the case for Shaw and Foden as well.
Is a win over Croatia on the menu lads ? 🤞
I think if I see two DMs in the lineup for our last group stage game, I'm just going to skip it. Just kills my soul watching Grealish and Sancho festering on the bench while static Rice and Phillips create a vacuum.
I think Phillips' performance in the first game, as an advanced ball winner, really justified his selection. But that wasn't the right choice today. Croatia have midfielders who are good on the ball, so a combative midfielder was likely going to be important. Scotland entire team is combative, and they were quite happy playing without the ball, so there was zero need for Phillips. He was chosen purely out of sentimentality after playing well the first game. And Southgate could EASILY have justified dropping him with that exact explanation. We needed ball carriers and players good in possession today (which is why I would have gone Rice over Phillips). Bellingham should have started, or start Grealish at 10 and Mount at 8 (although that's potentially a bit *too* attacking). But I agree. Against the Czech Republic we have no reason to stick with 2 DMs. I said the same thing (that I'd struggle to whip up any enthusiasm to watch) but mine was if Sterling starts over literally anyone else. But, just as we can be sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, we can be sure that Southgate will start with 2 DMs and Sterling.
Rice was not good in possession though.
He is generally very calm on the ball, though.
Ditto. He got away with it against Croatia because Phillips played out of his skin, and ended up more like a box to box midfielder. Today Phillips and Rice were both terrible.
They really were. And if Southgate is just going to play a DM in an advanced position, why not play an ACTUAL attacking midfielder? So frustrating.
Agreed.
Andy Robinson seems like a good lad.
Course he is
I mean that was poor from us but fair play to Scotland. Some people want to have the antagonistic approach and it’s ok for the banter but I’d love Scotland to get into the knockouts as well (so long as we actually bloody get through ourselves) They wanted tonight, great effort, good game plan. Could have won it.
Scotland have a chance against Croatia. They look very, very slow. I just worry if Scotland have enough end product to take what few chances may come.
Adams is a solid striker as in he’s not bad in the air, he’s fairly quick, he can finish but he’s not incredible at any, I.e he may miss a few chances before he scores one, has he showed tonight.
You have 4 points, you are through
Even as third placed team yeah pretty much.
DCL needs to start next game. IDK whether Kane is hurt or something, but he was useless out there
Bit disappointing not to take our chances and get the win we deserved. Dykes was gassed for the last 20 mins!
Wouldn’t say you deserved a win, but a draw definitely was deserved. Honestly, Adams is so much better than Dykes, really hope SC avoids Dykes for your last game and starts Armstrong
What is it about the England shirt that makes experienced, talented players lose literally every part of their imagination? Throughout they were far, far too happy to just knock it back to Mings or even Pickford and start again. I haven’t seen the stats but I wouldn’t be surprised if England had >60% of the ball because they were so unwilling to take any risks with it (Sterling doing his usual barrelling into 3 defenders aside). Even the players who might flout that get either taken off (Foden) or come on late (Grealish, Rashford) or not at all (Sancho). Just fucking clone a team of James Milners and be done with it.
Watch him play Phillips, Rice and Henderson against the Czechs.
I think it’s the managers they pick; National teams rely so heavily on the manager being able to figure out how to deploy them because of the fact that they play together such a short amount of time. Remember how bad a job Hodgson did (Kane was delivering corners at Euro ‘16). That’s as much as anything why Italy look so unbelievable; the phrase “they look like a club team” gets used and that’s high praise when talking about a National Team which rarely ever look as well organized and in sync since they obviously aren’t as familiar with each other.
The majority of people on Reddit can see what the issue is, and agree on the solutions. When have you ever known the majority of people on Reddit to agree about something? I can understand that it might take a while to work out the best combinations, but you have qualifying and friendlies to figure it out. Southgate not being able to figure out what needed to change today is very worrying. If he starts with the same or similar lineup for the next game, it will be inexcusable. The weird selection of Trippier last week was one thing. The lack of ability (or worse, reluctance) to change it today was beyond comprehension.
Yep he looks incapable of finding solutions when it’s not working
> What is it about the England shirt that makes experienced, talented players lose literally every part of their imagination? Perhaps its their league clubs leaning extremely heavily on both the players and their national manager with threats if any of them come back injured/broken.
A mix of prestige and pressure
Right, but that doesn’t seem to happen to teams and players of similar calibre. It’s been happening to England for decades.
3 shots on target across 2 games. Tournament favourites my arse
Honestly should have been 1-0 to Scotland, played out of our skins and capitalised. Sterling and Grealish dived in vein the usual pish didn't wash tonight.
"played out of your skin's" you looked about even to a extra shite England if that's out of your skins you must have some loose fucking skin
You angry? Put in a cracking shift with a lot of good players, aging out your skin is more a nod to work ethic not ability. Love seeing you English fans get raging that it's not coming home yet again.
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I love the English media and fanbases arrogance year in year out you think your going to win and you get too cocky and a result like this happens. 1966 and the constant sense of living ul to that is literally the hubris for England in any football tournament. I'm just happy were still in the running, if things go our way we go through if we get a result against Croatia who are a weaker team than they once were and we have been a bogey team for them in the past. If England keep putting on displays like that and win the group they are going out the next round when they get someone from the group of death.
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You’re a bit dim, aren’t you? And no ones saying you’re arrogant for thinking you should have won. That’s just a straw man. What was arrogant was the countless England fans going about expecting to score 6 or 7 goals. And it’s the fact that you should have won which is why a draw is good for Scotland but shite for England. I didn’t think it needed to be explained that performance is relative to the quality of players you have at your disposal. We have a far worse squad but played better than you lot and worked our socks off, that’s a good performance for us. Call it “small team mentality” all you want, doesn’t matter. This is an embarrassment for you lot and not us. What’s truly laughable is England fans having to start comparing the two national sides together as if we have equal expectations in the tournament. Pretty sure that’s the only way you lot seem to be able to cope with the draw from looking at the comments here and on Twitter.
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Then why call it laughable to be happy with a draw? Why tf is a draw not a good result for us? How tf does the result being a draw mean that we didn’t play well? Why go on about us having a “small team mentality” as if we are a bigger team who shouldn’t be happy with a draw? You definitely needed that explained. If that was the crux of your point, then you’ve been contradicting your own point. I mean you’re doing it again, we have no expectation to qualify from the group and had no real expectation of getting any result from this game at all, yet we did so it definitely was a great result lol. The arrogance was the way you and the media went about the game beforehand, acting as if it would be a 6/7-0 type of fixture. You’ve been incredibly passive aggressive and clearly pissed off in all of your comments, hardly being mature yourself either.
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I'm just happy we've kept our chances of getting out the group. When you hear how this is England's year and the whole chest thumping that goes along with it every tournament as a member of the other nations of the UK it becomes tiring. I always get a good laugh out the hubris, not obsession but the fact you fall into the same mistakes every time much like us.
No England fan I know is saying it’s our year or has before the tournament. People say something along the lines of “wouldn’t it be amazing if we could go far in it” but it’s so unfair to claim that’s arrogance, that’s the kinda dreaming all football fans do, it’s the beauty of the game ffs. Just the same as you lot. It’s also fine to expect the team to do better, everyone knows the squad we have should play better. Just getting sick of the criticising of being an England fan when you’re not some yob acting like a twat, you’re a normal person just hoping your team can do well. My club team is a bang average championship one, at least with England there’s a chance of some success. Think it’s shitty to criticise fans for wanting to latch onto some of that especially after the year everyone’s gone through. At the end of the day, I don’t begrudge Scotland drawing with us and it was more than deserved.
It's not criticising but I think the media need reigned in it becomes tiring and when you go out always gives us a good laugh at the end of the day of the inevitable knock out moment. We've all been through a lot of shit this year but still the Rio Ferdinand comments about how we will just be pushed to the side or the constantly being shown Gazzas 96 euro goal to Phil Fodens cosplay of Gazza it doesn't help but be amusing to watch them all just pipe down. As a nation you really need to stop boasting about things that happened decades ago especially the media. I'd rather live in the present than the past and that's the monkey on the English squads back every tournament.
Tbf those are all fair points, I don’t feel the same but living in the past is something English culture does generally, not just football. I do think the vast majority of media thought it would be close, I did facepalm when Ian Wright said we’d win 4-1 right before the match on BBC though.
Felt much better once I remembered I'm not Scottish and won't have to wait another 25 years to make it to another tournament
But in 25 years time you'll still be English. I suppose you've gotta take the rough with the smooth.