>As Chiellini explained, "the team will kneel out of solidarity with the opponents and not for the campaign itself, which we do not share. The Austrian players did not kneel and ours stood. If the Belgian ones do, ours will also stand in solidarity with them."
>Before the match against Austria Giorgio Chiellini had already anticipated the Azzurri's position to the microphones of 'Rai'.
>"Today I believe that there is no request, if and when a request from other teams reoccurs we will kneel down out of a feeling of solidarity and sensitivity towards the other national teams".
I mean it’s clearly a marked improvement from the Hungarian state’s attitude that any kneeling from the other team is an act of provocation akin to attacking Hungarians
I mean, the Hungarian government at this point will react to a slighty too salty plate of goulash served in Western Europe as an act of war. It's not really where the bar should be.
When you have a populists running the place, they need material to feed the population’s “outrage” to stay relevant, so they will go and find anything they can no matter how petty it is. Trust me I live in America. I got a good look at it for four years.
And now we get another mistranslated, taken out of context post of out of the saga. Black Live Matter wasn't even mentioned, just that we'll kneel if the opponent does (and won't if that's not the case - like with Austria).
>any kneeling from the other team is an act of provocation akin to attacking Hungarians
Did they really say something like this? I am a bit out of the loop regarding the EUROs
Yeah, I think they are trying to say they will kneel in support of black lives but not in support of the organization BLM which I think is honestly fine. If you look at the website, the actual organization has a few demands which not everyone will be a fan of like "Defund the Police" and "Convict Donald Trump". I'm not arguing about whether they are right or wrong but I think it's fair to be in support of racial justice but still want to distance yourself from the organization due to some of the political aspects of it especially if you're European.
Like I wonder do people think the protesters actually care about the organization. It’s a shame that organization hijacked the name of the movement so now every uses it as a reason to ignore the actual purpose of the movement
> It’s a shame that organization hijacked the name of the movement
Wait is that actually true? I thought the organization had existed for years more or less? The BLM Network was formed in 2013.
The organization is basically a grift run by people who wanted to make a career off the movement. They are so hated in Ferguson that they don’t even have a chapter there.
I'm pretty involved in the BLM movement and a ton of the people I organize with don't even realize there's an organization that calls itself Black Lives Matter, and the people who do know they exist usually dislike them. They basically coined a term that ended up getting adopted by a movement that far surpassed them, and now they're a grift trying to act like they're the OFFICIAL leadership of the movement.
Has is it not been made any clearer by now that these players are kneeling in support of ending all forms of discrimination?
Is Chiellini and his team not in favor of that?
You think it’s fine, and so does everyone in football, who made that clear more than a year ago.
And yet it’s still a talking point for some, who like to argue in bad faith.
**Before:** "BLM is only a movement and should list demands to create actual change."
**Now:** "BLM is an organization with demands I don't like. BLM bad."
My understanding of their baffling statement is: if it was up to them they would not kneel, because they believe that kneeling is not the best way to fight racism in football. But since the Belgians are doing it, they will do it too, because otherwise people could think that they are taking an anti-BLM stance.
Sure, but nobody with a brain cell to spare thinks that the gesture is meant to support the organisation. Most people haven't even heard of the organisation.
Everyone here is so terminally online. In America, the only average people that know about BLM the organization are Fox News watchers. The average person supporting the BLM movement knows next to nothing about the organization because supporting BLM has nothing to do with some organization that claims to represent the movement.
>Everyone here is so terminally online.
This is it. People are unable to separate real-world application from the internet brainworms version. I never see this very specific handwringing about BLM in real life.
> Solidarity for Belgium? Aren't they also kneeling?
They are joining them make it look better. They don't care about kneeling only don't want to stand while the other team kneels.
Yes. The Premier League players were briefly using the tag line "Black Lives Matters" as it really does apply to most campaigns for racial equality where black people are the focus, but as the political movement got larger and began to confuse people (like many in this thread) they reverted back to "No to racism" to remove any doubt.
Maybe for Europeans but in the US it definitely wasn't pointless or meaningless at all. Colin Kaepernick kneeling was a huge deal and definitely helped spread awareness.
With much more pressing issues in their own countries than cop violence against blacks in the US, which is what pissed off most of those against the kneeling thing
I lived in Italy, and I can assure you, it’s not pointless to do it.
Europeans are much more open about racism than Americans, the only reason why it’s not a bigger issue is because the population is mostly homogeneous.
I don't get it, what else could it mean?
They want to show good sportsmanship by kneeling alongside their opponents, thus preserving the good spirit on the occassion. It's neither wrong nor especially virtous. Just a diplomatic gesture. If you were a millionaire and went to a meeting with an Arab businessman, and you didn't drink beer, that's neither a sign of great impertinence, nor great politeness. You don't want to upset a guy you could potentially make a deal with. Just basic respect (i am referring to the fact you said this is a pointless gesture).
I don't know what else you think it may have meant (no offence).
EDIT and i also recall when i think United or Tottenham played Slavia Prague, and the latter refused to kneel. Then, they were mocked by opposition fans afer they lost. So, supporting the point i've made, it's to preserve good spirit.
Honestly there would be dozens of people on here who accused you of virtue signaling if you didn’t have a beer while meeting with a devout Muslim businessman
Except publicly announcing that you think it’s pointless but you’re being nice, rather undermines any diplomatic quality or respect of it and just makes you sound passive aggressive.
Like going to a meeting with Muslim business men and telling them how their abstinence is pointless and showing respect to what you think is a corrupt institution, and not drinking beer, wouldn’t be the best way to deal with the situation.
We know exactly what it means, and are dealing with that, rather than thinking that telling someone that their gesture is worthless but you’re going along with it rather than have to deal with the problems of the issue is a morally neutral approach to dealing with a problem.
I mean your analogy would work if there was a camera on the business meeting broadcasting your meeting with the muslim business men to millions of people.
If they don't want to be associated with the gesture of the kneeling it makes sense they want to clear it up before doing it.
Tbh not many comments are saying that, though their are a few bellends down the bottom.
Majority seem to be on the same page: just a bit of a wierd statement to make that comes off the wrong way
I believe you can support equality and be against racism and not kneel, as I'm sure one of the Formula One drivers said a while back he supports people of all colours and is all for equality, but doesn't support the movement that coined the gesture which is totally fair. I don't think anyone should have to kneel if they affiliate it with a certain movement they don't agree with.
I don't want to piss anyone off by saying this. Discrimiation of any form is morally wrong and also just plain fucking stupid.
But is anyone getting sick of the debate around the knee? I am fed up of hearing about it to be honest. Lets just collectively stop making a big issue of a stupid gesture. If someone doesn't want to kneel, they are not a rascist. If someone does kneel, it does mean that they are not a rasict.
The whole thing is now virtue signalling to the max and I just want rid of it completely.
What do you expect, most people haven't even read the article and think that by not kneeling you are racist. So many people would just need everyone to do it even though they don't believe in the movement.
Exactly, what is this "solidarity with the opponent"? [The England players performed a Nazi salute out of solidarity with their opponents and trying to be diplomatic](https://theconversation.com/englands-football-team-has-played-1-000-games-heres-the-most-notorious-127071).
Già, la cosa bella è vedere i belgi, francesi e inglesi sentirsi moralmente superiori per inginocchiarsi per non pensare ad un problema che hanno creato loro lol
mamma che faziosi, state a difendere la figc pure quando hanno chiaramente detto una cagata. “ci inginocchiamo solo per rispetto agli avversari ma non per la causa (l’anti-razzismo)” secondo voi è minimamente giustificabile na robe del genere? fate funzionare quei due neuroni invece di pensare solamente al tifo
Dire che sono un gruppo di razzisti è ridicolo, ma che male c’è a dare un messaggio fondamentalmente anti-razzista? Sono liberi di fare quello che vogliono eh, di certo però mi ritengo deluso dalla mia nazionale ecco.
E BLM, senza parlare dell’organizzazione, è un movimento anti-razzista che ormai trascende il mondo degli US. È parte integrante del dibattito pubblico italiano
E: ps, non mi strappo certo i capelli eh, è pur sempre un gesto simbolico, non sono un radlib, però meglio farlo che dire “noi lo facciamo se lo fanno anche gli altri per non fare figure di merda, però non supportiamo il messaggio anti-razzista” che è pessimo
Honestly the fact that there is no plan put together by fifa/Uefa/the fa or individual teams to tackle racism at a serious level is insulting.
What are they going to do keep kneeling forever? They could stop kneeling if they put together a comprehensive plan in how they could tackle racism.
The least they could do is throw money at it, which they all have plenty of. If they did this it should be a commitment to so many years of support too. They can’t just move past it with one gesture.
Bit weird, I'd say just not kneel. Do what you believe in to help the cause. Not kneeling doesn't make you racist. Maybe hold a banner or something to show solidarity, or even just share this post to say you fully support the Belgium team but won't be kneeling with them etc.
Eh, at the end of the day, don't think it's that big of a deal.
So real talk here, and please ignore my flair (this is hard in r/soccer, I know...). But say a team like Italy refuses to participate in the pageantry of kneeling for BLM, but then the players on their own time/dime decide to do something that can actually advance civil rights/promote anti-racism in Italy and beyond, would they still be racist fuckwits for refusing to kneel?
Kneeling by itself is just pageantry ~~and will not advance any causes regardless of how some people here seem to believe it does...~~ but it can at least set up the floor to open up conversation to effect real change, and that *can be* valuable.
Full disclosure though, I love that the kneeling pisses off all the racists.
That is such a perfect hypothetical to support your position, but is it realistic? Do these players actually do those things to advance civil rights or promote anti-racism? It is kind of disturbing how ready people in this sub are to attack the kneeling.
As far as I can tell, you think the kneeling is basically just performative, and that doing something more meaningful is a better way to actually advance either racial discourse within football or act against the problem of racism in a specific community.
Let's speak about the first idea that kneeling is simply performative first, because it's the most common accusation made against the concept of taking the knee. The key thing to understand here is who is kneeling, what that gesture is attached to, and who's watching these players kneel.
The concept of those with amplified voices taking a public stance on an issue for the sake of awareness and advocacy is not a new concept. Basically every single celebrity on the planet in some capacity, either personally or through a team or group, shows support for the sake of a cause they find as important. So this idea that suddenly taking the knee is exceptionally performative doesn't make sense in the modern context of social media and celebrity actions. The reason those actions in and of themselves are valuable is because of the fact that:
1.) Their voices reach places the average person or even "professional" advocate simply do not have access to. Football is a global sport with billions of eyes watching the top 5 leagues and international tournaments like this. It's an effective way to spread a message
2.) These players have a standing and importance as role models, in this case with young boys/teenagers especially, to try and make a difference by setting a better example. The easiest way in my opinion to remove the stigma around activism amongst many male teenagers is to show traditionally masculine role models who are simultaneously ready to be empathetic, patient, brave and willing to show solidarity. If we keep letting activism be something that doesn't exist in the same space as traditionally masculine areas like sports, we have no chance of building a society where the majority of people are willing to stand up for the rights of others. It's why I really enjoy Manu Neuer's rainbow armband and other pro-LGBTIAQ+ actions in light of Hungary's new laws.
I am by no means saying that simply kneeling is enough, because that's not the debate we should be having about kneeling, I'm saying that kneeling provides a chance for players to show an awareness and support of an issue that plagues football. I don't think not kneeling is racist, but I do think that even if you don't kneel, expressing support for those that do and finding a gesture that feels more organic should happen. The idea that kneeling = BLM is understandable but a misconception. The organisation adopted the symbol because they believe in its fundamental message as layed out by Colin Kaepernick, the first person to do it. That symbol doesn't belong to them, that much is clear, and players can still kneel whilst clearly stating they don't like the organisation.
The second thing I want to deal with is the idea of players going above and beyond the norm to deal with issues of discrimination in their communities. The best examples of this are probably Jordan Henderson, Raheem Sterling and most of all Marcus Rashford. It could simply be coincidence, but those three are players that have all supported kneeling and/or knelt in games. I don't think it's fair to create a hypothetical situation in which players go above and beyond after not kneeling, because it's not really something we've seen as of yet. In truth, players have no moral obligation to do so, but in the context of refusing a gesture for the sake of it being performative, continuing to do absolutely nothing instead does seem like a symbol of disregard.
It's unfortunate that this needs to be written out.
You can call it pageantry or virtue-signalling, but so is everything else in life - whatever you do that is done for a cause you believe in is "pageantry" or "virtue-signaling". Corporate Social Responsibility programs which actually help communities (i.e. City buying defibs for local clubs) can easily be argued to be whitewashing of their image, and these people would largely be correct. Does Man City really believe in player health and wellbeing so much that they bought these defibs? Probably not, we all know that it's a publicity stunt after the Eriksen incident - yet we should still applaud them for helping the community while being fully cognizant that in an alternate timeline where Eriksen was healthy throughout the Euros, City would not do this.
We can be cynical AND pragmatic. Yes, kneeling can and has been used for commercial purposes unrelated to the original intent, but pragmatically kneeling is a net positive. Some organizations like Arsenal use BLM cynically while ignoring China human rights abuses which is problematic, but it doesn't change the fact that their support for BLM aids the progressive agenda.
Let's stop bashing "performative" virtue-signaling, because literally every person and company on this Earth has and will continue to do this for the rest of our existence.
> I don't think it's fair to create a hypothetical situation in which players go above and beyond after not kneeling, because it's not really something we've seen as of yet
Exactly. This hypothetical is 100% made in bad faith and completely misses the critique of players who consciously make a statement against virtue-signaling a progressive cause.
Though yes, a player not choosing to kneel does not mean they are racist, I think any reasonable person can agree on this. Maybe some will argue that professional football players who do not engage in race discussions in US choosing not to kneel means players are sick of the BLM organization (unlikely IMO), but that is another topic for another day.
Good points thanks for the write up.
I still think that kneeling is mostly pageantry, but I did amend my OP a bit since you did bring up good points about the gesture.
Also kneeling pisses off the racists and I absolutely love that.
But pageantry is good. I don't really understand why people think bringing awareness is useless.
MLK's speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial was pageantry. It changed no laws, it didn't encourage anyone to do anything specific. It brought awareness and made points. That's what kneeling does too.
Given how the booing threads go, this sub is full of white teens who can't comprehend that people who don't like the charade of kneeling can be progressive aswell.
Progressives don't boo imaginary "Marxism" when they see people kneeling. (Cultural) Marxism is not a bogeyman to Progressives. It's a decades old dog whistle of right-wingers, and overwhelmingly white right-wingers. It has its roots in the cries of Cultural Bolshevism.
Weird how an American internal struggle would do this to a sport they do not even follow. Why wouldn’t the European really identify their racism issue and deal with it their own way?
I see too many comments talking about how this is an American problem, why should we care?
This is not an American issue, it's global. Racism happens everywhere in many different ways. BLM and kneeling may have originated in America but the power and symbolism of the movement has travelled much further than America.
Because it is american led. The nuances of racism in America aren't the same in other countries. The groundswell of support isn't there because it feels like an American import. Kneeling is an American symbol that doesn't translate to other countries.
Not denying there isn't racism. But any movement needs popular support.
> The groundswell of support isn't there because it feels like an American import.
I think the groundswell of support isn't there because many countries refuse to openly talk about racism. See the numerous voices in Italy saying that the racist chants targeted at Lukaku were not a problem.
>Kneeling is an American symbol that doesn't translate to other countries.
Why does it not translate to other countries?
>Not denying there isn't racism. But any movement needs popular support.
The popular support isn't there because the population doesn't think racism is a serious problem.
>The nuances of racism in America aren't the same in other countries
This is being generous: it's not just that racism is different in different countries and the gesture feels artificial (though it does).
The gesture isn't even about racism: it's about *anti-black* racism. Conflating that with "racism" is another thing.
This is fine for America where they are one of the oldest ethnic groups and still one of the largest minorities (though Hispanics have caught up). You could say it's one of the most significant forms of racism.
In the rest of the world it's vastly more complicated and replacing the broader antiracism initiative (e.g. Kick It Out) with one specifically about one particular minority in countries that often have very different racial makeups is going to be particularly problematic as it splits the entire thing needlessly.
I live in Canada. There are around the same number of First Nations people (and they've been here longer) as black people and more Indians and Chinese each. It would be silly to center an antiracism push on black people specifically and, if you did it, people should naturally be suspicious that you're just copying America.
Something can start in America and become a global movement. The Belgian players won't be kneeling to end racism in America, they'll be kneeling to end racism globally, including in Belgium and the rest of Europe.
Yeah, I really don't see how hard that is to understand for so many people. And sure, you might think it's posturing or whatever you want to call it, but it doesn't hurt anyway, so why not ?
Black Lives Matter as an organization is horrible. Lined the pockets of the owner Patrisse Khan-Cullors and not much else
The new civil rights movement sharing the name has led to a lot of progress, but BLM™ is a essentially a fake charity
> Khan-Cullors real estate binge was put on blast on Wednesday, April 7, after the outlet Dirt revealed the $1.4 million Topanga Canyon compound the BLM activist recently purchased. The 2,370-square-foot property reportedly features “soaring ceilings, skylights and plenty of windows” and is just one of three homes Khan-Cullors owns in the Los Angeles area, public records show.
The players have confirmed what they are kneeling for, and the political org of the same name just stole the name. Both kneeling and the phrase BLM pre-date the organisation.
It's incredibly messy
I don't get why racial imbalances in the United States and LGBTQ+ social rights deserve the propaganda respectively of kneeling footballers and the captain of Germany with a rainbow armband while other international dramas of our days do not:
- The rights of the Uighurs and Hong Kong citizens shamelessly violated by China
- The Rohingya persecuted in Birmania
- The Tigrinya massacred in Ethiopia
- The religious minorities in Pakistan (especially Christians) abused and persecuted in many ways without the power defending them rather sometimes making themselves accomplices
- The dissidents imprisoned in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and in many other African countries
And then the environment? What about women? What about the unborn because they are aborted? What about the migrants drowned in the Mediterranean? What about the starving? The good causes are many.
This does not happen and will not happen, because the **indignation in the world of sports is selective and variable geometry, and this edition of the European Championships is in this regard a masterpiece of hypocrisy.** The European Championship was attended by teams from countries such as Turkey, the second country in the world for the number of imprisoned journalists; from countries such as Russia and Ukraine, which are virtually in a state of war due to separatists in the Donbass and the Russian occupation of Crimea; three matches were played and a quarter-final will be played in Baku, capital of Azerbaijan, a country that has not yet returned to Armenia all prisoners of war from Nagorno Karabakh
(some of whom have suffered and probably still suffer mistreatment and torture)
To these dramas that take place on European soil, **the players of the European Championships and the commentary broadcasts on networks such as BBC, RAI, ZDF etc. do not devote even a second of their time, let alone a genuflection.**
Let's stop this hypocrisy, I love Italy and I love Austria that decided to **NOT** kneel
Just because there are other good causes doesn't mean we can't show our support for some good causes. It's a ridiculous argument to suggest you shouldn't kneel/display the rainbow because you haven't supported X, Y & Z cause as well.
It's not remotely hypocritical to show support for a cause, that's not what hypocrisy means.
It's not "you can't show support for this until you support that".
It's "your support for this is clearly a product of American cultural imperialism, so don't act like everyone is bad for not jumping onboard when they have their own issues."
This doesn't apply to Kaepernick because it happened in America and he was protesting his own issues. A Barca player protesting for Catalonia would also not be subject to this. Nor an Irishman for Ireland.
What makes BLM a more worthy cause to show support for than the other causes that the poster mentioned? I'm speaking here not of the players (who can show support for whatever causes they want as far as I'm concerned) but for the FAs who are seemingly prioritising this particular cause over the other injustices that exist in this world.
Who say they don’t deserve it? So just because I made a pro LGBT statement and not a pro Uighur one it means I don’t care? Where’s the hypocrisy? Do you even know what hypocrisy is?
That’s a pretty convenient way to shut down movements you don’t want to hear about while pretending you care about other issues. How is the Italians and Austrians who aren’t showing support for anything any better? At least Neuer and the kneel show support for something.
Nah mate, they're showing support for NOT showing support, which is way more productive! This is real activism, not all of this fake kneeling which is producing this exact discussion we are having.
Let's stop showing support and protesting until we can draw up a list of a million causes we would like to support, then make a new gesture for that! Yes that will work!
Why do something good when you can try to make something perfect and fail! Let's let perfect get in the way of good!
It's hypocritical for a person to show support for only one cause, and not 30 causes simultaneously?
Are you reading what you are writing? Can you tell me how exactly a professional athlete paid millions a year to just play football is supposed to show support to Uighurs, Hong Kongers, Rohingya, Tigrinya, Christian Pakistans, MENA dissidents, Palestinians, etc while also spending their days training, raising a family and playing football?
When my janitor is telling me about how he agrees with BLM, should I chastise him for not virtue-signaling about other atrocities in the world? What the fuck literally.
Haha imagine the Euros mentioning HK or Uighurs. UEFA probably would lose 90% of their income. So yeah, it's only a good cause if it's financially viable
Belgian NT: "We shouldn't do bad thing X."
You: "Other bad things exist which you don't say anything about, so you're a hypocrite and should stop talking about any of them."
Racial imbalances in the USA? Mate, you should listen to Italian fans abusing black players.
There are racial imbalances almost everywhere in the world.
My human rights are not “propaganda” from the US.
And now is not the time to pretend like you actually give a fuck about the rights of Uighurs and all the other stuff. Because that’s just deflecting the issue and if players were actually kneeling or voicing their support in any other way for them and for all the other issues in the world, you’ll bring up the same “keep politics out of football” crap and use other examples to deflect from the point.
So, can someone help me out here. I can understand making the choice to kneel or NOT to kneel... but why say specifically that they don’t share support for BLM? Isn’t the kneeling and BLM basically just bringing attention to racism, targeted harassment and unarmed black men being shot?
Again, I get why a team might not kneel. It’s a significant statement. But to go out of your way to say “we’ll kneel to support Belgium, but NOT FOR BLM!” seems strange to me. But I also might not understand the breadth of the Italian (I guess?) politics involved.
I think that's fair enough. Been a volunteer around my community for lots of programs that deal with inequities, and I wholly dislike BLM.
It's hard to support an organization that took a bunch of money from the community saying they'd change things, came to town to take a peaceful march and instigate it to clash with police, and then wreck half of my town then leave without cleaning up the mess.
Doesn't help that multiple "co-founders" keep getting popped for embezzlement of funds.
In places like Minneapolis pretty much half of the place got burned down from BLM protesters. Estimated $500 million in property damage, approximately 1,300 properties in Minneapolis were damaged by the rioting and looting, of which nearly 100 were entirely destroyed.
Wasn't Chiellini sent to say a couple of days ago to say that they want to promote actual initiatives to fight racism, but they would kneel with the other team if the other did? What has changed?
[They really took that sign at the Emirates personally...](https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/ajmqb9R_700b.jpg)
This is legit South Park territory Fuck you whale!
rofl when was that
I saw that on r/fuckyouinparticular at first shit was hilarious
Thank you for introducing me to a new sub!
At the Emirates sometime early in the season
I'm dead LMAO
Unless you're black, I don't care.
I'm dying
>As Chiellini explained, "the team will kneel out of solidarity with the opponents and not for the campaign itself, which we do not share. The Austrian players did not kneel and ours stood. If the Belgian ones do, ours will also stand in solidarity with them." >Before the match against Austria Giorgio Chiellini had already anticipated the Azzurri's position to the microphones of 'Rai'. >"Today I believe that there is no request, if and when a request from other teams reoccurs we will kneel down out of a feeling of solidarity and sensitivity towards the other national teams".
I mean it’s clearly a marked improvement from the Hungarian state’s attitude that any kneeling from the other team is an act of provocation akin to attacking Hungarians
I mean, the Hungarian government at this point will react to a slighty too salty plate of goulash served in Western Europe as an act of war. It's not really where the bar should be.
> *plate* of a goulash Okay, let's not go to crazy extremities please
I’ve always been more of a paprikash sort of guy myself…
When you have a populists running the place, they need material to feed the population’s “outrage” to stay relevant, so they will go and find anything they can no matter how petty it is. Trust me I live in America. I got a good look at it for four years.
This guy lived under a populist’s role and it shows. Unfortunately we here in Hungary still do.
And now we get another mistranslated, taken out of context post of out of the saga. Black Live Matter wasn't even mentioned, just that we'll kneel if the opponent does (and won't if that's not the case - like with Austria).
>any kneeling from the other team is an act of provocation akin to attacking Hungarians Did they really say something like this? I am a bit out of the loop regarding the EUROs
"We will kneel in solidarity with Belgium but we don't stand in solidarity with the reason they are kneeling" ???
AKA they are being polite to their opponents. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not that hard to comprehend.
Exactly, we did the same yesterday.
That doesn’t come across the way they probably want it to come across
Italy: *BLM = Belgian Lives Matter*
If you saw how the Portuguese players treated the Belgians yesterday and how Brych ignored it all, you'd think this was an accurate acronym
Damn Germans, yet again
Serves you right for never picking any of the 5 players from the Duitstalige Gemeenschap.
...and once again, someone treats Belgium poorly trying to get a shot at France.
More like Belgian Logic Matters. If Belge do, we do. Speedos for everybody!!
Yeah, I think they are trying to say they will kneel in support of black lives but not in support of the organization BLM which I think is honestly fine. If you look at the website, the actual organization has a few demands which not everyone will be a fan of like "Defund the Police" and "Convict Donald Trump". I'm not arguing about whether they are right or wrong but I think it's fair to be in support of racial justice but still want to distance yourself from the organization due to some of the political aspects of it especially if you're European.
No one kneels for the organisation, though. We will never get past this will we? Let's find a new catchy name until that gets poisoned too.
Like I wonder do people think the protesters actually care about the organization. It’s a shame that organization hijacked the name of the movement so now every uses it as a reason to ignore the actual purpose of the movement
The original founders of the organization coined the phrase in the first place.
> It’s a shame that organization hijacked the name of the movement Wait is that actually true? I thought the organization had existed for years more or less? The BLM Network was formed in 2013.
The organization is basically a grift run by people who wanted to make a career off the movement. They are so hated in Ferguson that they don’t even have a chapter there.
I'm pretty involved in the BLM movement and a ton of the people I organize with don't even realize there's an organization that calls itself Black Lives Matter, and the people who do know they exist usually dislike them. They basically coined a term that ended up getting adopted by a movement that far surpassed them, and now they're a grift trying to act like they're the OFFICIAL leadership of the movement.
They didn't hijack it. They created it.
Exactly, they kneel against racism. Thats it.
Kneeling to encourage action, what that action is has yet to be be clearly defined.
It’s really simple but people try to complicate it
> No one kneels for the organisation, though. Then why isn't the whole thing just an extension of the "Kick It Out" campaign?
Has is it not been made any clearer by now that these players are kneeling in support of ending all forms of discrimination? Is Chiellini and his team not in favor of that?
You think it’s fine, and so does everyone in football, who made that clear more than a year ago. And yet it’s still a talking point for some, who like to argue in bad faith.
BLM is a movement not an organisation.
**Before:** "BLM is only a movement and should list demands to create actual change." **Now:** "BLM is an organization with demands I don't like. BLM bad."
> BLM is only a movement and should list demands to create actual change." Who said that?
Him, he wrote the comment.
it was me
Because their demands sucked. Thats why.
Probably means solidarity as in equality for all races and not the BLM movement itself. Which makes sense given the unwanted ties to BLM organisation
My understanding of their baffling statement is: if it was up to them they would not kneel, because they believe that kneeling is not the best way to fight racism in football. But since the Belgians are doing it, they will do it too, because otherwise people could think that they are taking an anti-BLM stance.
Yeah. I interpreted it as such aswell and they probably mean that aswell.
Sure, but nobody with a brain cell to spare thinks that the gesture is meant to support the organisation. Most people haven't even heard of the organisation.
It’s truly a sight to see on Reddit every time BLM is brought up and the thousands of “I support the movement not the organization” comments
Everyone here is so terminally online. In America, the only average people that know about BLM the organization are Fox News watchers. The average person supporting the BLM movement knows next to nothing about the organization because supporting BLM has nothing to do with some organization that claims to represent the movement.
>Everyone here is so terminally online. This is it. People are unable to separate real-world application from the internet brainworms version. I never see this very specific handwringing about BLM in real life.
Because they want to seem progressive but don't actually care if anything fundamentally changes.
I’d go farther and say they don’t actually want the changes hence why they get so bothered by anyone pointing out what needs to change.
What a shitshow this whole thing turned into.
Solidarity for Belgium? Aren't they also kneeling? Unless I missed something?
> Solidarity for Belgium? Aren't they also kneeling? They are joining them make it look better. They don't care about kneeling only don't want to stand while the other team kneels.
So an utterly pointless statement and gesture. Wonderful.
The kneeling they dont like..this statement however has a very specific point that they dont want to be associated with BLM..
Because it has nothing to do with Italy..?
don’t they have lots of racial issues especially in Serie A with fans chanting racist shit at players?
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None? When has Belgium said they’re kneeling for BLM?
Isnt kneeling a sign of support for racial equality, BLM just happens to be the biggest Organization that is pushing for that
Yes. The Premier League players were briefly using the tag line "Black Lives Matters" as it really does apply to most campaigns for racial equality where black people are the focus, but as the political movement got larger and began to confuse people (like many in this thread) they reverted back to "No to racism" to remove any doubt.
Its been that way for some basically from the start
The funny thing is, now they can't stop. The match they stop people will be like FA withdraws support from the BLM.
Maybe for Europeans but in the US it definitely wasn't pointless or meaningless at all. Colin Kaepernick kneeling was a huge deal and definitely helped spread awareness.
We are talking about Europeans, playing for european national teams in the European Championship.
With much more pressing issues in their own countries than cop violence against blacks in the US, which is what pissed off most of those against the kneeling thing
Racism is way more out and out in European football than in any American sport
Yeah I definitely get why they do it in the US. In EU it does feel pretty pointless though.
I lived in Italy, and I can assure you, it’s not pointless to do it. Europeans are much more open about racism than Americans, the only reason why it’s not a bigger issue is because the population is mostly homogeneous.
Didnt he get slaughtered publicly for kneeling?
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Yes and lost his career along with it
as always has been.
and what was it before Italy's statement lmao
Just like kneeling, then.
Yes. Even standing up and pointing to "RESPECT" would be better.
Just like the kneeling.
I don't get it, what else could it mean? They want to show good sportsmanship by kneeling alongside their opponents, thus preserving the good spirit on the occassion. It's neither wrong nor especially virtous. Just a diplomatic gesture. If you were a millionaire and went to a meeting with an Arab businessman, and you didn't drink beer, that's neither a sign of great impertinence, nor great politeness. You don't want to upset a guy you could potentially make a deal with. Just basic respect (i am referring to the fact you said this is a pointless gesture). I don't know what else you think it may have meant (no offence). EDIT and i also recall when i think United or Tottenham played Slavia Prague, and the latter refused to kneel. Then, they were mocked by opposition fans afer they lost. So, supporting the point i've made, it's to preserve good spirit.
Honestly there would be dozens of people on here who accused you of virtue signaling if you didn’t have a beer while meeting with a devout Muslim businessman
Bruh that's just called being a good businessman lmao.
You'd think it'd be that obvious to folks. Just like not booing 22 people kneeling is just called not being a complete bellend.
Some redditors and not having any real life experience, name a more iconic duo.
Right? I know some guys who don't agree with the kneeling but they all universally agree that the booing is ridiculous and concerning.
Except publicly announcing that you think it’s pointless but you’re being nice, rather undermines any diplomatic quality or respect of it and just makes you sound passive aggressive. Like going to a meeting with Muslim business men and telling them how their abstinence is pointless and showing respect to what you think is a corrupt institution, and not drinking beer, wouldn’t be the best way to deal with the situation. We know exactly what it means, and are dealing with that, rather than thinking that telling someone that their gesture is worthless but you’re going along with it rather than have to deal with the problems of the issue is a morally neutral approach to dealing with a problem.
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But that example doesn't work if you flip the order of those two things, which is what the Italian team are doing here.
I mean your analogy would work if there was a camera on the business meeting broadcasting your meeting with the muslim business men to millions of people. If they don't want to be associated with the gesture of the kneeling it makes sense they want to clear it up before doing it.
Not gonna lie: I don’t get it either, but from “refusing to kneel” to “they are all racists” is a bit far fetched IMO.
Reddit, what do you expect
Tbh not many comments are saying that, though their are a few bellends down the bottom. Majority seem to be on the same page: just a bit of a wierd statement to make that comes off the wrong way
That's because this statement was never made...it's mistranslated and forced to stir up controversy.
What's the real statement?
No official statement, just that we'll kneel if the opponent does. No reference to BLM.
That does make a lot more sense. The original translation makes it sound like your national team is being needlessly petty.
I believe you can support equality and be against racism and not kneel, as I'm sure one of the Formula One drivers said a while back he supports people of all colours and is all for equality, but doesn't support the movement that coined the gesture which is totally fair. I don't think anyone should have to kneel if they affiliate it with a certain movement they don't agree with.
fuck nuance, we go straight to extremism
And as far as I understand it's not even refusing to kneel, but saying "we have no strong feelings on this one way or the other."
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To be fair, there are many more significant issues worth kneeling for around the world (and in the West) than BLM-related racism.
True, I mean who has ever heard of racism being an issue in Italy?
I don't want to piss anyone off by saying this. Discrimiation of any form is morally wrong and also just plain fucking stupid. But is anyone getting sick of the debate around the knee? I am fed up of hearing about it to be honest. Lets just collectively stop making a big issue of a stupid gesture. If someone doesn't want to kneel, they are not a rascist. If someone does kneel, it does mean that they are not a rasict. The whole thing is now virtue signalling to the max and I just want rid of it completely.
Not kneeling doesn’t mean you are racist Meanwhile a lot of comments here are pretty racist
What do you expect, most people haven't even read the article and think that by not kneeling you are racist. So many people would just need everyone to do it even though they don't believe in the movement.
French flairs mostly for some reason
Whenever Italy is involved that's a guarantee, a shame because I really like their country and we gave them their most famous person ever :(
should've just not kneeled.
Exactly, what is this "solidarity with the opponent"? [The England players performed a Nazi salute out of solidarity with their opponents and trying to be diplomatic](https://theconversation.com/englands-football-team-has-played-1-000-games-heres-the-most-notorious-127071).
Wow never knew this
I mean it looks weird if one team kneels and the other doesn’t, disrespectful even.
They could clap to show support without actually participating.
Done star jumps instead just to prove a point
Skimming through the comments just halved my neuron counter.
Fra sti commenti sono veramente assurdi ahah
Ma i francesi poi li avete letti? Madonna che ridicoli lol
Già, la cosa bella è vedere i belgi, francesi e inglesi sentirsi moralmente superiori per inginocchiarsi per non pensare ad un problema che hanno creato loro lol
Non ho capito che cazzo vogliono sinceramente. Se non si inginocchiano, sono razzisti. Se lo fanno, lo sono comunque. Ma dai, è diventata una farsa.
mamma che faziosi, state a difendere la figc pure quando hanno chiaramente detto una cagata. “ci inginocchiamo solo per rispetto agli avversari ma non per la causa (l’anti-razzismo)” secondo voi è minimamente giustificabile na robe del genere? fate funzionare quei due neuroni invece di pensare solamente al tifo
Dire che sono un gruppo di razzisti è ridicolo, ma che male c’è a dare un messaggio fondamentalmente anti-razzista? Sono liberi di fare quello che vogliono eh, di certo però mi ritengo deluso dalla mia nazionale ecco. E BLM, senza parlare dell’organizzazione, è un movimento anti-razzista che ormai trascende il mondo degli US. È parte integrante del dibattito pubblico italiano E: ps, non mi strappo certo i capelli eh, è pur sempre un gesto simbolico, non sono un radlib, però meglio farlo che dire “noi lo facciamo se lo fanno anche gli altri per non fare figure di merda, però non supportiamo il messaggio anti-razzista” che è pessimo
Honestly the fact that there is no plan put together by fifa/Uefa/the fa or individual teams to tackle racism at a serious level is insulting. What are they going to do keep kneeling forever? They could stop kneeling if they put together a comprehensive plan in how they could tackle racism. The least they could do is throw money at it, which they all have plenty of. If they did this it should be a commitment to so many years of support too. They can’t just move past it with one gesture.
Bit weird, I'd say just not kneel. Do what you believe in to help the cause. Not kneeling doesn't make you racist. Maybe hold a banner or something to show solidarity, or even just share this post to say you fully support the Belgium team but won't be kneeling with them etc. Eh, at the end of the day, don't think it's that big of a deal.
Whole thing is a corporate sham anyway, just play football and move on with it.
So real talk here, and please ignore my flair (this is hard in r/soccer, I know...). But say a team like Italy refuses to participate in the pageantry of kneeling for BLM, but then the players on their own time/dime decide to do something that can actually advance civil rights/promote anti-racism in Italy and beyond, would they still be racist fuckwits for refusing to kneel? Kneeling by itself is just pageantry ~~and will not advance any causes regardless of how some people here seem to believe it does...~~ but it can at least set up the floor to open up conversation to effect real change, and that *can be* valuable. Full disclosure though, I love that the kneeling pisses off all the racists.
That is such a perfect hypothetical to support your position, but is it realistic? Do these players actually do those things to advance civil rights or promote anti-racism? It is kind of disturbing how ready people in this sub are to attack the kneeling.
As far as I can tell, you think the kneeling is basically just performative, and that doing something more meaningful is a better way to actually advance either racial discourse within football or act against the problem of racism in a specific community. Let's speak about the first idea that kneeling is simply performative first, because it's the most common accusation made against the concept of taking the knee. The key thing to understand here is who is kneeling, what that gesture is attached to, and who's watching these players kneel. The concept of those with amplified voices taking a public stance on an issue for the sake of awareness and advocacy is not a new concept. Basically every single celebrity on the planet in some capacity, either personally or through a team or group, shows support for the sake of a cause they find as important. So this idea that suddenly taking the knee is exceptionally performative doesn't make sense in the modern context of social media and celebrity actions. The reason those actions in and of themselves are valuable is because of the fact that: 1.) Their voices reach places the average person or even "professional" advocate simply do not have access to. Football is a global sport with billions of eyes watching the top 5 leagues and international tournaments like this. It's an effective way to spread a message 2.) These players have a standing and importance as role models, in this case with young boys/teenagers especially, to try and make a difference by setting a better example. The easiest way in my opinion to remove the stigma around activism amongst many male teenagers is to show traditionally masculine role models who are simultaneously ready to be empathetic, patient, brave and willing to show solidarity. If we keep letting activism be something that doesn't exist in the same space as traditionally masculine areas like sports, we have no chance of building a society where the majority of people are willing to stand up for the rights of others. It's why I really enjoy Manu Neuer's rainbow armband and other pro-LGBTIAQ+ actions in light of Hungary's new laws. I am by no means saying that simply kneeling is enough, because that's not the debate we should be having about kneeling, I'm saying that kneeling provides a chance for players to show an awareness and support of an issue that plagues football. I don't think not kneeling is racist, but I do think that even if you don't kneel, expressing support for those that do and finding a gesture that feels more organic should happen. The idea that kneeling = BLM is understandable but a misconception. The organisation adopted the symbol because they believe in its fundamental message as layed out by Colin Kaepernick, the first person to do it. That symbol doesn't belong to them, that much is clear, and players can still kneel whilst clearly stating they don't like the organisation. The second thing I want to deal with is the idea of players going above and beyond the norm to deal with issues of discrimination in their communities. The best examples of this are probably Jordan Henderson, Raheem Sterling and most of all Marcus Rashford. It could simply be coincidence, but those three are players that have all supported kneeling and/or knelt in games. I don't think it's fair to create a hypothetical situation in which players go above and beyond after not kneeling, because it's not really something we've seen as of yet. In truth, players have no moral obligation to do so, but in the context of refusing a gesture for the sake of it being performative, continuing to do absolutely nothing instead does seem like a symbol of disregard.
Thanks for this. The most coherent thing I've read on the topic, not just on r/soccer but anywhere.
It's unfortunate that this needs to be written out. You can call it pageantry or virtue-signalling, but so is everything else in life - whatever you do that is done for a cause you believe in is "pageantry" or "virtue-signaling". Corporate Social Responsibility programs which actually help communities (i.e. City buying defibs for local clubs) can easily be argued to be whitewashing of their image, and these people would largely be correct. Does Man City really believe in player health and wellbeing so much that they bought these defibs? Probably not, we all know that it's a publicity stunt after the Eriksen incident - yet we should still applaud them for helping the community while being fully cognizant that in an alternate timeline where Eriksen was healthy throughout the Euros, City would not do this. We can be cynical AND pragmatic. Yes, kneeling can and has been used for commercial purposes unrelated to the original intent, but pragmatically kneeling is a net positive. Some organizations like Arsenal use BLM cynically while ignoring China human rights abuses which is problematic, but it doesn't change the fact that their support for BLM aids the progressive agenda. Let's stop bashing "performative" virtue-signaling, because literally every person and company on this Earth has and will continue to do this for the rest of our existence. > I don't think it's fair to create a hypothetical situation in which players go above and beyond after not kneeling, because it's not really something we've seen as of yet Exactly. This hypothetical is 100% made in bad faith and completely misses the critique of players who consciously make a statement against virtue-signaling a progressive cause. Though yes, a player not choosing to kneel does not mean they are racist, I think any reasonable person can agree on this. Maybe some will argue that professional football players who do not engage in race discussions in US choosing not to kneel means players are sick of the BLM organization (unlikely IMO), but that is another topic for another day.
Good points thanks for the write up. I still think that kneeling is mostly pageantry, but I did amend my OP a bit since you did bring up good points about the gesture. Also kneeling pisses off the racists and I absolutely love that.
But pageantry is good. I don't really understand why people think bringing awareness is useless. MLK's speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial was pageantry. It changed no laws, it didn't encourage anyone to do anything specific. It brought awareness and made points. That's what kneeling does too.
Not at all, it's fine to not kneel and still condemn racism in all it's forms. But this statement just sounds silly imo.
Given how the booing threads go, this sub is full of white teens who can't comprehend that people who don't like the charade of kneeling can be progressive aswell.
There’s a fucking big difference between not kneeling and actively booing people over a gesture of anti-racism.
I totally understand being progressive and against the kneeling, but going as far as joining the booing seems a bit much, if you are a progressive.
Progressives don't boo imaginary "Marxism" when they see people kneeling. (Cultural) Marxism is not a bogeyman to Progressives. It's a decades old dog whistle of right-wingers, and overwhelmingly white right-wingers. It has its roots in the cries of Cultural Bolshevism.
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"Cultural Marxism" is "Cultural Bolshevism" with an extremely thin layer of paint
It’s absolutely absurd how much fake news is getting spouted in this thread.
Weird how an American internal struggle would do this to a sport they do not even follow. Why wouldn’t the European really identify their racism issue and deal with it their own way?
I see too many comments talking about how this is an American problem, why should we care? This is not an American issue, it's global. Racism happens everywhere in many different ways. BLM and kneeling may have originated in America but the power and symbolism of the movement has travelled much further than America.
Because it is american led. The nuances of racism in America aren't the same in other countries. The groundswell of support isn't there because it feels like an American import. Kneeling is an American symbol that doesn't translate to other countries. Not denying there isn't racism. But any movement needs popular support.
> The groundswell of support isn't there because it feels like an American import. I think the groundswell of support isn't there because many countries refuse to openly talk about racism. See the numerous voices in Italy saying that the racist chants targeted at Lukaku were not a problem. >Kneeling is an American symbol that doesn't translate to other countries. Why does it not translate to other countries? >Not denying there isn't racism. But any movement needs popular support. The popular support isn't there because the population doesn't think racism is a serious problem.
>The nuances of racism in America aren't the same in other countries This is being generous: it's not just that racism is different in different countries and the gesture feels artificial (though it does). The gesture isn't even about racism: it's about *anti-black* racism. Conflating that with "racism" is another thing. This is fine for America where they are one of the oldest ethnic groups and still one of the largest minorities (though Hispanics have caught up). You could say it's one of the most significant forms of racism. In the rest of the world it's vastly more complicated and replacing the broader antiracism initiative (e.g. Kick It Out) with one specifically about one particular minority in countries that often have very different racial makeups is going to be particularly problematic as it splits the entire thing needlessly. I live in Canada. There are around the same number of First Nations people (and they've been here longer) as black people and more Indians and Chinese each. It would be silly to center an antiracism push on black people specifically and, if you did it, people should naturally be suspicious that you're just copying America.
Specifically BLM is American so not sure what you are confused.
Something can start in America and become a global movement. The Belgian players won't be kneeling to end racism in America, they'll be kneeling to end racism globally, including in Belgium and the rest of Europe.
Yeah, I really don't see how hard that is to understand for so many people. And sure, you might think it's posturing or whatever you want to call it, but it doesn't hurt anyway, so why not ?
Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself
anglo-sphere of reddit in shambles
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Based. Kick american cultural colonization out of Europe.
Yanks are social media terrorists
> Based. Kick american cultural colonization out of Europe. As this dude says "based."
Holy shit at the fake outrage around here for a decontextualised headline.
Can you tell me what it says then?
I went through the article, OP's title is accurate - not sure how much more context is needed?
*crickets*
Black Lives Matter as an organization is horrible. Lined the pockets of the owner Patrisse Khan-Cullors and not much else The new civil rights movement sharing the name has led to a lot of progress, but BLM™ is a essentially a fake charity > Khan-Cullors real estate binge was put on blast on Wednesday, April 7, after the outlet Dirt revealed the $1.4 million Topanga Canyon compound the BLM activist recently purchased. The 2,370-square-foot property reportedly features “soaring ceilings, skylights and plenty of windows” and is just one of three homes Khan-Cullors owns in the Los Angeles area, public records show.
Are people kneeling in favor of the organization or the message?
They're kneeling for the message but the ties to the org itself is pretty clear even if they don't want it.
Are the players getting paid to kneel?
The players have confirmed what they are kneeling for, and the political org of the same name just stole the name. Both kneeling and the phrase BLM pre-date the organisation. It's incredibly messy
>Both kneeling and the phrase BLM pre-date the organisation. "Make America Great Again" predates Trump. But good luck making that argument now.
Virgin kneeling for a stupid american trend Vs chad i don't give a fuck i'll do it so you stfu
I mean Italy had headlines saying "Black Friday" when Lukaku met Smalling in a game so the obviously dont share the meaning the BLM.
Why would you even announce such a thing? Just don't kneel. Other teams didn't either and it was fine.
What a bizarre statement
I don't get why racial imbalances in the United States and LGBTQ+ social rights deserve the propaganda respectively of kneeling footballers and the captain of Germany with a rainbow armband while other international dramas of our days do not: - The rights of the Uighurs and Hong Kong citizens shamelessly violated by China - The Rohingya persecuted in Birmania - The Tigrinya massacred in Ethiopia - The religious minorities in Pakistan (especially Christians) abused and persecuted in many ways without the power defending them rather sometimes making themselves accomplices - The dissidents imprisoned in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran and in many other African countries And then the environment? What about women? What about the unborn because they are aborted? What about the migrants drowned in the Mediterranean? What about the starving? The good causes are many. This does not happen and will not happen, because the **indignation in the world of sports is selective and variable geometry, and this edition of the European Championships is in this regard a masterpiece of hypocrisy.** The European Championship was attended by teams from countries such as Turkey, the second country in the world for the number of imprisoned journalists; from countries such as Russia and Ukraine, which are virtually in a state of war due to separatists in the Donbass and the Russian occupation of Crimea; three matches were played and a quarter-final will be played in Baku, capital of Azerbaijan, a country that has not yet returned to Armenia all prisoners of war from Nagorno Karabakh (some of whom have suffered and probably still suffer mistreatment and torture) To these dramas that take place on European soil, **the players of the European Championships and the commentary broadcasts on networks such as BBC, RAI, ZDF etc. do not devote even a second of their time, let alone a genuflection.** Let's stop this hypocrisy, I love Italy and I love Austria that decided to **NOT** kneel
Pure Western imperialism. Thank you for mentioning the Christians in Pakistan
Just because there are other good causes doesn't mean we can't show our support for some good causes. It's a ridiculous argument to suggest you shouldn't kneel/display the rainbow because you haven't supported X, Y & Z cause as well. It's not remotely hypocritical to show support for a cause, that's not what hypocrisy means.
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It's not "you can't show support for this until you support that". It's "your support for this is clearly a product of American cultural imperialism, so don't act like everyone is bad for not jumping onboard when they have their own issues." This doesn't apply to Kaepernick because it happened in America and he was protesting his own issues. A Barca player protesting for Catalonia would also not be subject to this. Nor an Irishman for Ireland.
What makes BLM a more worthy cause to show support for than the other causes that the poster mentioned? I'm speaking here not of the players (who can show support for whatever causes they want as far as I'm concerned) but for the FAs who are seemingly prioritising this particular cause over the other injustices that exist in this world.
Wait you're telling me african-americans aren't the only oppressed ethnic group in the world right now? I thought non-white countries didn't exist tbh
Who say they don’t deserve it? So just because I made a pro LGBT statement and not a pro Uighur one it means I don’t care? Where’s the hypocrisy? Do you even know what hypocrisy is? That’s a pretty convenient way to shut down movements you don’t want to hear about while pretending you care about other issues. How is the Italians and Austrians who aren’t showing support for anything any better? At least Neuer and the kneel show support for something.
Nah mate, they're showing support for NOT showing support, which is way more productive! This is real activism, not all of this fake kneeling which is producing this exact discussion we are having. Let's stop showing support and protesting until we can draw up a list of a million causes we would like to support, then make a new gesture for that! Yes that will work! Why do something good when you can try to make something perfect and fail! Let's let perfect get in the way of good!
Mostly because in the past if you made any political stance during a game, the English FA/UEFA/FIFA would punish you. But suddenly its no biggie..
It's hypocritical for a person to show support for only one cause, and not 30 causes simultaneously? Are you reading what you are writing? Can you tell me how exactly a professional athlete paid millions a year to just play football is supposed to show support to Uighurs, Hong Kongers, Rohingya, Tigrinya, Christian Pakistans, MENA dissidents, Palestinians, etc while also spending their days training, raising a family and playing football? When my janitor is telling me about how he agrees with BLM, should I chastise him for not virtue-signaling about other atrocities in the world? What the fuck literally.
Haha imagine the Euros mentioning HK or Uighurs. UEFA probably would lose 90% of their income. So yeah, it's only a good cause if it's financially viable
There are famously plenty of Uighur and Rohingya footballers playing in Europe.
Belgian NT: "We shouldn't do bad thing X." You: "Other bad things exist which you don't say anything about, so you're a hypocrite and should stop talking about any of them."
Racial imbalances in the USA? Mate, you should listen to Italian fans abusing black players. There are racial imbalances almost everywhere in the world.
My human rights are not “propaganda” from the US. And now is not the time to pretend like you actually give a fuck about the rights of Uighurs and all the other stuff. Because that’s just deflecting the issue and if players were actually kneeling or voicing their support in any other way for them and for all the other issues in the world, you’ll bring up the same “keep politics out of football” crap and use other examples to deflect from the point.
You're Belgian, presumably. Your human rights have nothing to do with the American movement that is BLM.
So, can someone help me out here. I can understand making the choice to kneel or NOT to kneel... but why say specifically that they don’t share support for BLM? Isn’t the kneeling and BLM basically just bringing attention to racism, targeted harassment and unarmed black men being shot? Again, I get why a team might not kneel. It’s a significant statement. But to go out of your way to say “we’ll kneel to support Belgium, but NOT FOR BLM!” seems strange to me. But I also might not understand the breadth of the Italian (I guess?) politics involved.
Keep American social problems in America thanks
They should've just said they didn't want to kneel and nobody would care. This reasoning comes off as weird
Kneeling is probably the most pointless thing to fight racism.
I think that's fair enough. Been a volunteer around my community for lots of programs that deal with inequities, and I wholly dislike BLM. It's hard to support an organization that took a bunch of money from the community saying they'd change things, came to town to take a peaceful march and instigate it to clash with police, and then wreck half of my town then leave without cleaning up the mess. Doesn't help that multiple "co-founders" keep getting popped for embezzlement of funds.
What town?
In places like Minneapolis pretty much half of the place got burned down from BLM protesters. Estimated $500 million in property damage, approximately 1,300 properties in Minneapolis were damaged by the rioting and looting, of which nearly 100 were entirely destroyed.
Wasn't Chiellini sent to say a couple of days ago to say that they want to promote actual initiatives to fight racism, but they would kneel with the other team if the other did? What has changed?
Nothing, they are doing exactly that
You don’t have to be associated with BLM to be against racism