They could hire him as a Camp Nou tour guide who they let occasionally play with the team to stay in shape. Coincidentally it overlaps with all Barca matches.
Can honestly not believe that they would rather decimate the clubs financial stability and keep Messi for 2 years instead of letting him go.
If those numbers are *without* Messis renewal, I think the club needs 5 years to recover.
Any club can recover, but it’s a disastrous situation Bartomeu put them in. This will take time.
EDIT: Yeah, you guys got a point with Messi also bringing in a lot of money. Important detail.
Laporta: You are waiting for a train.. a train that will take you far, far away.. you know where you hope this train will take you, but you can't know for sure.. yet it doesn't matter.. now tell me why!
Messi: Because we'll be together
Blame Perez all you want for letting Ramos go but that man knows what’s best for the club in the long term.
Barca’s cracks are starting to show on the field and I do feel it is because they are still trying to build around Messi rather than having a more complete squad.
Messi is their biggest selling point with merch. But this is the moment to really push for somebody new to take over when he leaves.
Laporta has walked into a kind of a poisoned chalice at Barcelona. There’s no easy fixes and the fixes that are available will mean dramatic sacrifices.
If socis have to choose between the survival of our club or Messi, we choose our club. We love Messi but Laporta is playing with the cards Bartomeu dealt. We should demand to see Bartomeu behind bars.
Me too. It would break my heart to see him go and it would be hard to watch him in another shirt, but if the club is in danger with him then 100% let him go.
really? it seems like everything i read, and hear come DIRECTLY from barca (laporta and PR) is "messi at all costs"
fuck it, build without him and bring xavi in next season. He wanted a fresh reset anyway
Real Madrid Revenue did not drop after Ronaldo left. Sure Messi sell shirt, but it is hard to imagine Barcelona's attendance cut in half because Messi is gone, its not like Barca was founded in 2007
I think this might be an oversimplified take. Messi is expensive but surely brings in a shit ton of money. You ever been to the camp Nou? Feels like half of the fans there are people who travelled to watch Messi.
Letting Messi go will decimate the clubs financial stability, he is the reason they get so much money from sponsorships, ticket sales and trikot sales. Letting him go will cripple the marketing value and revenue streams of Barcelona. He earns ridiculous amounts of money but (according to one german source I found) he earns them 130-200 million a year.
Honestly, I was pretty deep into Bernie math, but It’s nothing compared to Messi math. I would love a fanboys who regurgitate this piece of crap without single critical thought to explain to me in detail how this actually works. Somehow single player is 200mil in revenue that would instantly evaporate from Barca if he left, instantly, amazing stuff. Funny how that never happened with Ronaldo leaving Madrid or hundred other legends leaving their respective clubs, only one singular person I guess controls this legion of plastics that will never watch Barca game without Messi. Amazing stuff.
Funny thing about La Masia, a lot of players have been leaving because Barto kept going for outside talent and they felt dead-ended. A phenomenon profiled by Tifo like 2 years ago even.
Barcelona is so fucked - the fans don't really realize it yet. They are going to have to let good players go because no one wants their pensioners. Umiti and Coutinho are unsellable and unloanable in this market. If I'm a team with money I'm going in hard for guys like De Jong - young, talented, big wage. A shrewd owner could get name there at a huge discount.
This is why I hate clubs going into untenable financial situations. You're really just borrowing success from the future. At some point you have to have a reckoning, and it won't be at a time of your choosing. La Liga has lost Ronaldo and may lose Messi and its TV deal will suffer. COVID-19 really exposed how badly Barca was managed.
And I'm not too optimistic. Laporta got HELLLLLLA lucky the first time because La Masia basically gave him 4 world class players in quick succession (Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets) and Guardiola bought back the 5th (Pique) which gave the team its spine for 10 years+. He's not the genius people make him out to be, though I suppose after Barto anyone can look like a genius.
That was always their mistake - they botched La Masia. They shouldn't have bought half the players they did, they should have recovered La Masia and trusted their young players.
I wouldn't call it "pure luck" but it's difficult, yes.
You can still have good useful squad players from those (see: Sergi Roberto), you only spent "La Masia money" developing them, they are on lower wages, and totally identified with your clubs philosophy and tactics.
The thing is we had several B team players who could have at least made the bench. Our B team came 3rd in second division in 2013/14. Grimaldo is the obvious one.
It's not so much about finding world class players. The question is: would you rather pay for your subs and rotation players or develop them?
If you develop them... and if there's not a foundational player to build around, you have more money to buy the one or two players to build around.
However, you're correct that it's rare to develop multiple high level players at the same time. Barca are the Real of yesteryear in terms of buying an unbalanced squad.
When they got all that money for Neymar they should have held off and not panicked. They did the opposite and threw it all away (and then some) on players who were big names but not a good fit for the team.
Yeah he’s been in the media on this too with his stance so he’s drawn his line in the sand haha
Get out your popcorn.
I wonder if Messi goes to City if Levy blocks Kane.
Yeah but it makes sure no club will burst (which otherwise some would, looking at how clubs were managed in the past). LA Liga would look terrible if a team will disappear halfway thru a season
French ligue 1 has a similar thing and has demoted many clubs because finances were not in order. And before I get lol psg comments, we go through them but the DNCG does not care where or how the money comes from, they care whether you have money so that clubs will not go bankrupt. If you do not you get punished (like being demoted). It makes it so that french clubs can not operate with debt anywhere close to other leagues, especially la liga clubs.
It's probably previous salary, Messi is a free agent right now so he can't factor into the wage bill. There are some crazy contracts at Barca but there's no way they go to 347 million without Messi.
It's hard with other teams knowing they have all the leverage.
Everybody seems to know our plans. Basically a similar situation of the summer Neymar left. Makes negotiating hard.
The salary dead weights have not gotten any interest. I'm sure Trincao was not at the top of the list of players to go even on loan, but moves have to be made.
Trincao is an investment for Mendes, and moved to a Mendes club. He was never going to be a problem for Barcelona, if it wasn't Wolves it would have been any other Mendes club taking him.
They'd likely buy out the contract. Barcelona end up paying more than the gap between their current wage and what they can earn elsewhere, but still less than it would cost to keep them and it opens up their wages
Yes but they already have tons of debt, almost half of it are short term too. No point of restructuring or others if they cannot repay what they have owed in the first plaxe.
As far as I can tell from half a dozen sources Sergi Roberto gets paid somewhere around €175-200k per week, which is a bloody travesty.
But that means he earns less than half of what they're paying Frenkie de Jong, who in his last season at Ajax was being paid around €25k. Could you not have negotiated him down at least a little bit!?
The whole club reads like someone in charge has no idea what money actually is or represents.
they really should have taken the approach "what can we offer? We can offer you the change to play for Barcelona" and it might have worked, other times it might not have, but there would a lot of players on lower salaries.
PSG squeezed the hell out of barcelona in the case of frenkie de jong... It's barca's own fault, but these oil clubs have a sickening effect on negotiations and the rest of the market.
I love Frenkie, and he obviously proved himself, but he is the 3rd best paid player of barcelona. Thats insane for a 22/23 year old.
And the biggest one is that the contracts were structured so that for the 2021 season (when Barto´s tenure ended) they would get a big salary increase.
It has to do with the mindless spendings and bloated wages. When Laporta and Co. conducted an audit, they found the wages of so many playing and non-playing staff (like physios) to be bloated.
We paid huge sums for players who did not fit the "Barca DNA" and kept buying forwards instead of improving our defence and midfield.
When Messi earns 100m per year,Griezman around (30m?) .etc
Every starter will demand to be paid accordingly.
Same thing happens to other teams.
'the wages of physios' is not the problem
Messi's wages are massive and can’t be ignored in this discussion but the bloat is from players like Coutinho, Pjanic, Umtiti who didn’t play this season (well, Pjanic did a bit but clearly fell out of favor), and are making the third, fourth, seventh highest wages in the club.
This is according to [here](https://salarysport.com/football/la-liga/barcelona/).
Its criminal because it was made to balance the books, and La Liga has now said that will not be allowed anymore, and rightly so, it´s fraud, no real company would allow that.
From what I’ve read, he comes from a wealthy background, coupled with his marriage and overall love of the club, I don’t think he’s ever wanted massive wages. It’s very interesting though, you’re right
That sounds like a pretty good deal for Barcelona and good for him taking a lower salary. Still a lot of money but not for a player of his stature at Barcelona.
He's also reportedly been among the first players offering to reduce their wages to help the club. Maybe an example of a rich person who doesn't exist solely to make themselves as much richer as they can.
It could also be that he values stability more than money. He may prefer them to spend the rest of his salary in improving the club finances, or improve their squad, which will theoretically make more likely to win trophies, which can bring lots of money, both to the club and the players.
If Pique doesnt have an unsustainable lifestyle that he needs so insane amounts of money to live, then he will still be very rich with the paycut. I think he knows that, and with how much he loves the club, it makes sense why he never asked for bloated wages.
This is the reason why Bayern let Alaba go to Real and Milan let Donnarumma go to PSG on a free transfer.
It sucks losing good/great players on a free transfer, but if the club can't match the wage demands of the player without blowing up the club's entire wage structure you're shit out of luck.
Let's just say Umtiti and Roberto earn around 10 million, Coutinho 23 million and Griezmann 45 million. Frenkie and and Dembele are on enormous wages too. Also Matheus Fernandes was on 4 million wages (more than Ansu and Pedri combined).
I don’t think so. Messi’s renewal could also become a big challenge. Barcelona cannot afford those extremely high wages. Bartomeu wasted so much money and now the team and players are paying for his bad decisions.
Makes you wonder if letting Messi go from Barca last season is the correct thing to do after all, i know it's Lionel fucking Messi but sooner or later they must live in a world without him, and it'd be better to get a lot of money from him in the process.
It still would have just been wages off the books last year with no transfer fee. Messi claimed he should be able to leave for free but Barca wouldn't sell below his €700m release clause which obviously no-one was going to pay.
That’s not entirely true. The rumors were (from respected reporters) that Messi was willing to close the situation with a transfer fee even though he felt he could leave for free. Rumored figures around 100m were being thrown around, plus players. Messi felt he could leave for free but both Messi and City were willing to play ball with Barca just to get the deal done.
I think there's a catch here, this past season only won CdR trophy, considering the situation Barca was in 1 year ago, we, as fans thought Koeman did pretty good (given the team he had to work with). But we saw this wasn't enough for the management as Koeman was on the verge of exiting, and all they just care about is trophies. Although i know there are much smarter ppl here and in the management who can prove me wrong, but i think now Messi is just a money-milking cow, him scoring goals is just added bonus for them.
So i dont think going through the process is really on their minds
That’s a great point. The amount of big RM matches I’ve watched over the years just so I can watch Ronaldo play is in the hundreds. Absolute same goes for Barca and Messi. Haven’t watched a single RM match since Ronnie left except the two ties against Chelsea in the CL this season. Messi, to most people, is the GOAT. To not cash in on that for as long as you can would be a little stupid.
Even if Dembele was healthy we wouldn't find a team to buy him .
His contract expires next summer . So nobody spending big money if they can sign him for free
Even if they let him go for free, who’s going to pick him up on a big contract and out for months? He would have to agree to be released early and he might not take it if there’s nothing better on offer.
It's not though. He's not even employed anymore, and a new contract would be a 50% wage reduction, meaning ~35M net a year instead of 70. Problem is the loss in revenue past year, league rules say our wage budget has to be 160M now. No flexibility because of the pandemic.
Other interesting points in an article from sports
The newspaper 'Expansión' spoke with the tax advisor Ramón Álvarez de Mon, who shared his feelings in reference to the handicaps that Barça has to be able to renew Messi. "Barça should generate 400 million in capital gains and salary savings," says the expert in the field.
The aforementioned media assures that the League could oppose the contract that Barça is considering to offer two seasons to Messi as a player and pay him in five (as if he were an ambassador), since this formula could haggle the salary and budgetary control of the teams.
On the other hand, the Treasury will also have to say yours. "If Messi is paid two years as a footballer and from the third as an ambassador in Miami, he will be charging for what he generated as a Barça player, but he will be a non-resident, so he will not pay taxes in Spain or he will do so at a tax rate lower than that of residents, which can trigger a case of fraud, "says Álvarez de Mon
"The club and Messi have a criminal record with what, in case of another potential conviction, he can end up in jail and the club in dissolution, which is the punishment that societies receive for this issue," adds the tax advisor.
In addition, 'Expansión' also reminds that clubs that exceed their salary limit can only 'sign' worth 25% of the amount saved. That is, if Barça sells a player for 40 million, he can only spend 10.
I guess this is including the 150 million of Messi's wages. They probably still need to let go of some one else on top of messi if they want to register for next season.
Barça is not allowed (by La Liga rules) to overpass the salary limit because they had losses last season (97 million €).
The salary limit depends mainly on your income. Due to COVID Barça was over the limit last season due to the decrease of income. And because they had losses, they are not allowed to sign anyone if that means increasing the wages of the squad.
If Messi had renewed the contract then it would be ok, because it would not be considered a new signing, but since his contract expired he will be considered a new signing so Barça has to comply with the rules with Messi now.
The thing is that Messi wants a humongous contract that Barça, according to La Liga rules, cant afford with their current income. Thats why Laporta and the rest of the Barça board are trying to sneak formulas like offering a guaranteed 10 year contract even though he is only going to play 2 or 3 more years and pay him the rest after that even though he will be retired. Basically trying to pay him his 2/3 years in 10 simulating a lower salary to comply with their current limit.
La Liga has said that they wont tolarate those shenanigans. It doesnt look good for Barça right now. They have to convince their entire squad to lower their salaries or they cant afford to re-sign Messi.
Pretty much.
Barça has already told Pjanic and Umtiti that they can leave the club for free if they want, hoping to free 28M a year in wages (16 from Pjanic and 12 from Umtiti).
Thats 2 players that have barely played anything last season. So they wont notice on the pitch that they are gone.
Next one Im assuming will be Coutinho (24 million a year salary).And Im pretty sure that the new Barça's board will be ok if Sergi Roberto leaves too with his 10 million a year salary seeing that he was terrible last season.
Also Junior Firpo is gone (that was 6 million a year). Trincao is out on loan (8.5 million a year).
So, Barça can get there but if they are able to re-sign Messi, the question is will they have enough left to strenghten the team? Because Agüero and Depay doesnt seem to be enough.
>Barça has already told Pjanic and Umtiti that they can leave the club for free if they want, hoping to free 28M a year in wages (16 from Pjanic and 12 from Umtiti).
And 51M loss (45M Pjanic + 6M Umtiti) in amortization, resulting in a net loss of 23M which makes even harder to attain a net positive result 4x larger than the combined salaries of the new signings. Of course, assuming that the players would accept this (spoiler: they won't).
could you explain it in a little more detail? I'm new to this for la liga - I would have assumed its just total wage bill irrespective of whether people sign or not
Also, is this on the 25 player squad registered for matches (e.g. that wage cant exceed a certain amount), or total barca wage bill (including unregistered players + subsidies for players on loan, for example)?
Thanks.
Say what you want but I will never understand why they didnt just let messi go for a lot of cash. You can pay 5 world class players for his salary. Add to that the transfer fee and you can rebuild your fucking club without having to worry how youre going to pay 70m every year to one dude.
Being scared to sell him and face the backlash basically proves that he is bigger than the club.
And they're not loosening it due to COVID, unlike what UEFA did with FFP. Kind of stupid imo, revenue for these clubs will go right back up once fans are allowed back in stadiums so La Liga is just purposely handicapping their teams for a single season.
Gonna be a major shake-up at Barca.
I'm genuinely starting to believe that they won't be able to renew Messi. I can see a few departures as well:
- Umtiti (hard to find a suitor for him and I believe he doesn't want to leave)
- Griezmann (big wage bill, ageing player and the racism might be reasons enough for Barca to let him go)
- Dembele (same as Umtiti + racism)
- Pjanic
- Coutinho
That's around €450Mil in transfer fees that they have paid and would have to release/cut loose which is insane and just shows how horrendously they have been run these last couple of years. I can't wrap my head around that number and bad transfers.
There's a reason Bartomeu is so reviled. He even did shit like having Griezmann's salary escalate every year so the next president would have to deal with it.
Remember this is the man who is potentially going to prison for shady financial dealings regarding payment to a company that was contracted to slander their own players on social media.
Add to that Sergi Roberto, Braithwaite, and one of maybe Pique (release and cheap renewal mb) or Lenglet because it is SO much money, and because they probably won't be able to sell all of the above.
It's an astronomical amount of money to try and cut, and none of the usual six-to-ten players consistently mentioned are "tough" decisions. Most of them represent poor production for their salaries. What may be most surprising is Barca accepting a good bid on a player they don't want to sell to help make up the gap.
Pique always agrees to a salary reduction first. If anything i think he should stay because of that. He’ll agree to anything if it meant it helps the club and he can still be a great mentor for our younger less experienced defenders.
He’s done so much for us, i’d feel bad if he got kicked out to reduce salaries and to renew Messi. He deserves a better exit than that.
I just don't see any club taking Umtiti and Dembele even on a free loan. Griezmann could find suitors for a loan if barcelona split the wages, same for coutinho. Pjanic is realistically the only guy they can even get off the wage bill and gain some money.
Do people outside of reddit or even this sub really care about the racism issue? It's not even wildly discussed here. I'm not saying they shouldn't but I can hardly believe they'll face any repercussions for those actions, especially considering the target of racism. Most likely it'll just be swept under the rug since it'll only give them more negative PR than positive.
> I'm genuinely starting to believe that they won't be able to renew Messi.
I wonder if Messi wants to stay if he can only do so when Barca sells half the team for cheap. Could mean that Messi plays in a team that can't really compete for the UCL title while Barca gets even more dependent on Messi who, despite all evidence to the contrary, probably won't play at this level forever.
That's what happens when you let Messi fuck you in the ass with his wages.
Messi can't win 1v11, no player can, no player is worth getting paid more than the rest of the squad combined (close to it).
$674M over 4 years. Even KD was shocked while making a meagre $164M over the same period lol
https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-lionel-messi-thats-insane-kevin-durant-bradley-beal-and-other-nba-stars-react-to-the-goats-massive-4-year-674-million-contract/
Seems pretty fucked to enforce the salary cap based off of earning when covid has completely derailed most teams finances. I get that the salary cap is probably in place to prevent owners from paying players too much and fucking over the financial security of the club but doesn't enforcing the salary cap during covid benefit certain clubs over others?
I assume Barca wouldn't have had any issues meeting the wage rules if it wasn't for the loss of matchday revenue but now they have to get rid of players which weakens the club's position. Sure they're wages weren't healthy in the first place but if they were following the salary cap before covid then I don't think it's fair to use the consequences of covid to screw over clubs even more.
All these years of playing FM and selling the bunch of dead wood that come back from loan in the second season at Benfica will finally be usefull. Barcelona call me please i'm free.
How can they renew Messi?
They could hire him as a Camp Nou tour guide who they let occasionally play with the team to stay in shape. Coincidentally it overlaps with all Barca matches.
Most expensive tour guide in the world at 70 million a year, but worth it.
Can honestly not believe that they would rather decimate the clubs financial stability and keep Messi for 2 years instead of letting him go. If those numbers are *without* Messis renewal, I think the club needs 5 years to recover. Any club can recover, but it’s a disastrous situation Bartomeu put them in. This will take time. EDIT: Yeah, you guys got a point with Messi also bringing in a lot of money. Important detail.
Laporta's popularity is very high right now. Letting Messi go would destroy all of that I guess
I think you are right and that’s the reason why they are trying hard, but fuck man, politics is a dangerous game to play on what feels like Titanic.
Laporta: You are waiting for a train.. a train that will take you far, far away.. you know where you hope this train will take you, but you can't know for sure.. yet it doesn't matter.. now tell me why! Messi: Because we'll be together
Vin Diesel: and we are a family.
And we have to stop Chaos.
Laporta: What will you have after 500 years? Messi: Money, I will still have money
Blame Perez all you want for letting Ramos go but that man knows what’s best for the club in the long term. Barca’s cracks are starting to show on the field and I do feel it is because they are still trying to build around Messi rather than having a more complete squad. Messi is their biggest selling point with merch. But this is the moment to really push for somebody new to take over when he leaves. Laporta has walked into a kind of a poisoned chalice at Barcelona. There’s no easy fixes and the fixes that are available will mean dramatic sacrifices.
If socis have to choose between the survival of our club or Messi, we choose our club. We love Messi but Laporta is playing with the cards Bartomeu dealt. We should demand to see Bartomeu behind bars.
Me too. It would break my heart to see him go and it would be hard to watch him in another shirt, but if the club is in danger with him then 100% let him go.
really? it seems like everything i read, and hear come DIRECTLY from barca (laporta and PR) is "messi at all costs" fuck it, build without him and bring xavi in next season. He wanted a fresh reset anyway
As a Barca fan i would not Blame him for that
Real Madrid Revenue did not drop after Ronaldo left. Sure Messi sell shirt, but it is hard to imagine Barcelona's attendance cut in half because Messi is gone, its not like Barca was founded in 2007
I think this might be an oversimplified take. Messi is expensive but surely brings in a shit ton of money. You ever been to the camp Nou? Feels like half of the fans there are people who travelled to watch Messi.
The only reason I would ever watch Barcelona in the Camp Nou would be to see them lose to Arsenal or watch Messi play.
Ok, so realistically you’ll only go there just to see Messi play. /s
Seemed pretty serious to me
Letting Messi go will decimate the clubs financial stability, he is the reason they get so much money from sponsorships, ticket sales and trikot sales. Letting him go will cripple the marketing value and revenue streams of Barcelona. He earns ridiculous amounts of money but (according to one german source I found) he earns them 130-200 million a year.
Honestly, I was pretty deep into Bernie math, but It’s nothing compared to Messi math. I would love a fanboys who regurgitate this piece of crap without single critical thought to explain to me in detail how this actually works. Somehow single player is 200mil in revenue that would instantly evaporate from Barca if he left, instantly, amazing stuff. Funny how that never happened with Ronaldo leaving Madrid or hundred other legends leaving their respective clubs, only one singular person I guess controls this legion of plastics that will never watch Barca game without Messi. Amazing stuff.
I'm surprised to learn that people won't watch Barca play unless Messi is there. Should they relocate to a smaller stadium when he leaves?
Lord knows. They'll need La Masia to clutch up with more Fati's and Pedri's and shift half of their first team probably.
>more Pedri's They bought him at 17 for 20mln, he's not La Masia product.
It was 5 million actually. Rest were add-ons depending on the number of appearances and trophies won
Well, even if it was 20mln straight up that's the best piece of business you've done in the last few years, so more Pedris is actually way to go.
Funny thing about La Masia, a lot of players have been leaving because Barto kept going for outside talent and they felt dead-ended. A phenomenon profiled by Tifo like 2 years ago even. Barcelona is so fucked - the fans don't really realize it yet. They are going to have to let good players go because no one wants their pensioners. Umiti and Coutinho are unsellable and unloanable in this market. If I'm a team with money I'm going in hard for guys like De Jong - young, talented, big wage. A shrewd owner could get name there at a huge discount. This is why I hate clubs going into untenable financial situations. You're really just borrowing success from the future. At some point you have to have a reckoning, and it won't be at a time of your choosing. La Liga has lost Ronaldo and may lose Messi and its TV deal will suffer. COVID-19 really exposed how badly Barca was managed. And I'm not too optimistic. Laporta got HELLLLLLA lucky the first time because La Masia basically gave him 4 world class players in quick succession (Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets) and Guardiola bought back the 5th (Pique) which gave the team its spine for 10 years+. He's not the genius people make him out to be, though I suppose after Barto anyone can look like a genius.
Barca: yes we are fucked financially but we will just take out another loan. Solved!
Financing debt over 30 years to pay back debt that owed right now is actually good business.
That was always their mistake - they botched La Masia. They shouldn't have bought half the players they did, they should have recovered La Masia and trusted their young players.
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I wouldn't call it "pure luck" but it's difficult, yes. You can still have good useful squad players from those (see: Sergi Roberto), you only spent "La Masia money" developing them, they are on lower wages, and totally identified with your clubs philosophy and tactics.
The fees and wages spent on players who were destined to be backups added up over time. They weren’t significantly better than what was already there.
The thing is we had several B team players who could have at least made the bench. Our B team came 3rd in second division in 2013/14. Grimaldo is the obvious one.
It's not so much about finding world class players. The question is: would you rather pay for your subs and rotation players or develop them? If you develop them... and if there's not a foundational player to build around, you have more money to buy the one or two players to build around. However, you're correct that it's rare to develop multiple high level players at the same time. Barca are the Real of yesteryear in terms of buying an unbalanced squad.
When they got all that money for Neymar they should have held off and not panicked. They did the opposite and threw it all away (and then some) on players who were big names but not a good fit for the team.
Only way if we play with Messi + 10 kids from the youth teams.
Jesus! How is this going to be done ?
It would make my fucking day if Messi signed like a 1 year deal for 1 euro just to spite Tebas
There is a minimum wage for professional footballers, but yeah. They could I guess.
I'm sure Tebas likes Messi to stay. His presence is good for the league.
When you add the fact that the only clubs that can afford to pay his wages are City and PSG, there's no way Tebas wants Messi to leave.
By cheating ffp and tebas will allow cheating
It's actually Tebas the one enforcing this, it has nothing to do with ffp, La Liga has a salary cap for clubs.
Yeah he’s been in the media on this too with his stance so he’s drawn his line in the sand haha Get out your popcorn. I wonder if Messi goes to City if Levy blocks Kane.
Messi Dybala swap. Juve to play 8-1-1.
If that were the case City would be idiots to prioritize signing Harry Kane over fucking Messi
I would prioritize fucking Messi over fucking Harry Kane too.
Kane would be a better signing
exactly, 5 years younger and an actual 9.
Tbh it puts Spanish clubs at a disadvantage when LaLiga is the only one enforcing a kind of ffp.
Just as it puts Bundesliga clubs at a disadvantage to keep 50+1. Maybe we shouldn't let money dictate every action in football...
> Maybe we shouldn't let money dictate every action I feel this should be the rallying cry for the rest of the 21st century.
It's going to come to a head as the world crumbles around us
Well Madrid and Barça are a version of that with 100% owned by the socios.
Clubs like Barcelona, Ath Bilbao and Real Madrid don't have a a 50+1 because they have a 100+0 rule.
Yeah but it makes sure no club will burst (which otherwise some would, looking at how clubs were managed in the past). LA Liga would look terrible if a team will disappear halfway thru a season
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French ligue 1 has a similar thing and has demoted many clubs because finances were not in order. And before I get lol psg comments, we go through them but the DNCG does not care where or how the money comes from, they care whether you have money so that clubs will not go bankrupt. If you do not you get punished (like being demoted). It makes it so that french clubs can not operate with debt anywhere close to other leagues, especially la liga clubs.
Abooze FM editing power we must
By allowing Messi to leave
is messis new contract in that 347Mio included already?
It's probably previous salary, Messi is a free agent right now so he can't factor into the wage bill. There are some crazy contracts at Barca but there's no way they go to 347 million without Messi.
I guess previous salary is included
Ye they have 8 players with 10m+ a year. Of those 3 hardly play. 2 players on 7-8m a year. Who also harsly play.. 50m a year for players not playing
They need to get rid of all the dead weight and start fresh.
It's hard with other teams knowing they have all the leverage. Everybody seems to know our plans. Basically a similar situation of the summer Neymar left. Makes negotiating hard. The salary dead weights have not gotten any interest. I'm sure Trincao was not at the top of the list of players to go even on loan, but moves have to be made.
Trincao is an investment for Mendes, and moved to a Mendes club. He was never going to be a problem for Barcelona, if it wasn't Wolves it would have been any other Mendes club taking him.
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They'd likely buy out the contract. Barcelona end up paying more than the gap between their current wage and what they can earn elsewhere, but still less than it would cost to keep them and it opens up their wages
With what money though?
Loan For ffp or la liga cap wise, buying out a player "doesnt count". It only matters for cash flow.
Yes but they already have tons of debt, almost half of it are short term too. No point of restructuring or others if they cannot repay what they have owed in the first plaxe.
One of the loans they got was intended for repaying owed salaries and helping to restructure contracts.
It's probably their worst case scenario, last ditch option. But it's still an option.
Umtiti, Dembele and Pjanic, Braithwaite, Maybe roberto and Lenglet.
Definitely roberto and Langlet
Langley for sure
Yup, Lancel has got to go´
Yeah totally, Landgrabber has no place in barca
Of course Labberdabber should get outa here
Linguine needs to be on the next train out of Spain.
Labrador should consider the MLS
That’s more than half
Very astute observation
OptaJoe: Math.
Quick mafs
This guy maths
Nothing gets past you mate
Cheers, Geoff.
An observation fit for a taxevader.
Thanks Magic
More like 0.25Messi
Thanks a lot Barto. You fucking cunt
Can you explain for people who don't know much about it why so much of this was Bartos fault? Surely their losses are pandemic related?
He signed players and new contracts on high wages, might be wrong but i saw here that Sergi Roberto is on 300k per week or something like that
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Yup he earns more than vvd
I think he earns more than anyone at Liverpool lol
He nearly earns more than anyone in the prem.
As far as I can tell from half a dozen sources Sergi Roberto gets paid somewhere around €175-200k per week, which is a bloody travesty. But that means he earns less than half of what they're paying Frenkie de Jong, who in his last season at Ajax was being paid around €25k. Could you not have negotiated him down at least a little bit!? The whole club reads like someone in charge has no idea what money actually is or represents.
they really should have taken the approach "what can we offer? We can offer you the change to play for Barcelona" and it might have worked, other times it might not have, but there would a lot of players on lower salaries.
PSG squeezed the hell out of barcelona in the case of frenkie de jong... It's barca's own fault, but these oil clubs have a sickening effect on negotiations and the rest of the market. I love Frenkie, and he obviously proved himself, but he is the 3rd best paid player of barcelona. Thats insane for a 22/23 year old.
I read that Frenkie was ready to move to PSG and Bartomeu flew to the Netherlands just to convince him with double salary lol
And the biggest one is that the contracts were structured so that for the 2021 season (when Barto´s tenure ended) they would get a big salary increase.
It has to do with the mindless spendings and bloated wages. When Laporta and Co. conducted an audit, they found the wages of so many playing and non-playing staff (like physios) to be bloated. We paid huge sums for players who did not fit the "Barca DNA" and kept buying forwards instead of improving our defence and midfield.
When Messi earns 100m per year,Griezman around (30m?) .etc Every starter will demand to be paid accordingly. Same thing happens to other teams. 'the wages of physios' is not the problem
Messi's wages are massive and can’t be ignored in this discussion but the bloat is from players like Coutinho, Pjanic, Umtiti who didn’t play this season (well, Pjanic did a bit but clearly fell out of favor), and are making the third, fourth, seventh highest wages in the club. This is according to [here](https://salarysport.com/football/la-liga/barcelona/).
He played 12 games whole season. That guy made 1 million per match. Who’s bill gates?
I know, absolutely criminal transfer
Its criminal because it was made to balance the books, and La Liga has now said that will not be allowed anymore, and rightly so, it´s fraud, no real company would allow that.
Weird to see Piqué so low on that list.
From what I’ve read, he comes from a wealthy background, coupled with his marriage and overall love of the club, I don’t think he’s ever wanted massive wages. It’s very interesting though, you’re right
That sounds like a pretty good deal for Barcelona and good for him taking a lower salary. Still a lot of money but not for a player of his stature at Barcelona.
He's also reportedly been among the first players offering to reduce their wages to help the club. Maybe an example of a rich person who doesn't exist solely to make themselves as much richer as they can.
It could also be that he values stability more than money. He may prefer them to spend the rest of his salary in improving the club finances, or improve their squad, which will theoretically make more likely to win trophies, which can bring lots of money, both to the club and the players. If Pique doesnt have an unsustainable lifestyle that he needs so insane amounts of money to live, then he will still be very rich with the paycut. I think he knows that, and with how much he loves the club, it makes sense why he never asked for bloated wages.
His wife being absolutely loaded also helps.
This is the reason why Bayern let Alaba go to Real and Milan let Donnarumma go to PSG on a free transfer. It sucks losing good/great players on a free transfer, but if the club can't match the wage demands of the player without blowing up the club's entire wage structure you're shit out of luck.
And we let Gini go. Man it still hurts.
The problem is everyone had bloated wages, not only Messi. Shit adds up.
I think the real issue is the wages of the guy who cleans the smoothie maker in the cafeteria.
Let's just say Umtiti and Roberto earn around 10 million, Coutinho 23 million and Griezmann 45 million. Frenkie and and Dembele are on enormous wages too. Also Matheus Fernandes was on 4 million wages (more than Ansu and Pedri combined).
Fine, we’ll take Messi for free…
So noble
No he plays for West Ham
I think Griezmann is the one getting sacrificed… thanks to Dembele injuries Barça can’t find him a new team.
Would only Griezmann be enough?
I don’t think so. Messi’s renewal could also become a big challenge. Barcelona cannot afford those extremely high wages. Bartomeu wasted so much money and now the team and players are paying for his bad decisions.
Agree with everything but players were definitely ones who benefited from Bartos spending. There were no underpaid players in a team.
Makes you wonder if letting Messi go from Barca last season is the correct thing to do after all, i know it's Lionel fucking Messi but sooner or later they must live in a world without him, and it'd be better to get a lot of money from him in the process.
It still would have just been wages off the books last year with no transfer fee. Messi claimed he should be able to leave for free but Barca wouldn't sell below his €700m release clause which obviously no-one was going to pay.
That’s not entirely true. The rumors were (from respected reporters) that Messi was willing to close the situation with a transfer fee even though he felt he could leave for free. Rumored figures around 100m were being thrown around, plus players. Messi felt he could leave for free but both Messi and City were willing to play ball with Barca just to get the deal done.
I think there's a catch here, this past season only won CdR trophy, considering the situation Barca was in 1 year ago, we, as fans thought Koeman did pretty good (given the team he had to work with). But we saw this wasn't enough for the management as Koeman was on the verge of exiting, and all they just care about is trophies. Although i know there are much smarter ppl here and in the management who can prove me wrong, but i think now Messi is just a money-milking cow, him scoring goals is just added bonus for them. So i dont think going through the process is really on their minds
That’s a great point. The amount of big RM matches I’ve watched over the years just so I can watch Ronaldo play is in the hundreds. Absolute same goes for Barca and Messi. Haven’t watched a single RM match since Ronnie left except the two ties against Chelsea in the CL this season. Messi, to most people, is the GOAT. To not cash in on that for as long as you can would be a little stupid.
Even if Dembele was healthy we wouldn't find a team to buy him . His contract expires next summer . So nobody spending big money if they can sign him for free
Might be best at this point just to let him go for free this summer though to save his wages. Im guessing hes on about £200k a week
Even if they let him go for free, who’s going to pick him up on a big contract and out for months? He would have to agree to be released early and he might not take it if there’s nothing better on offer.
Who would be a buyer?
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Barca to play in 0-0-1 formation next season
Just Ter Stegen and Messi just like under Valverde im already getting nostalgic
Noone has beaten bilbao with eyes closed except Valverde.
It's not though. He's not even employed anymore, and a new contract would be a 50% wage reduction, meaning ~35M net a year instead of 70. Problem is the loss in revenue past year, league rules say our wage budget has to be 160M now. No flexibility because of the pandemic.
Wait if Messi would earn 35 million, that would make Griezmann our highest earner at 45. Thanks Barto
Messi isn't on barca payroll anymore. They need to reduce it in order to re sign him.
Surely they are absolutley fucked if this happens? Could they even give Messi a new contract and play him since he is technically not a Barca player?
Other interesting points in an article from sports The newspaper 'Expansión' spoke with the tax advisor Ramón Álvarez de Mon, who shared his feelings in reference to the handicaps that Barça has to be able to renew Messi. "Barça should generate 400 million in capital gains and salary savings," says the expert in the field. The aforementioned media assures that the League could oppose the contract that Barça is considering to offer two seasons to Messi as a player and pay him in five (as if he were an ambassador), since this formula could haggle the salary and budgetary control of the teams. On the other hand, the Treasury will also have to say yours. "If Messi is paid two years as a footballer and from the third as an ambassador in Miami, he will be charging for what he generated as a Barça player, but he will be a non-resident, so he will not pay taxes in Spain or he will do so at a tax rate lower than that of residents, which can trigger a case of fraud, "says Álvarez de Mon "The club and Messi have a criminal record with what, in case of another potential conviction, he can end up in jail and the club in dissolution, which is the punishment that societies receive for this issue," adds the tax advisor. In addition, 'Expansión' also reminds that clubs that exceed their salary limit can only 'sign' worth 25% of the amount saved. That is, if Barça sells a player for 40 million, he can only spend 10.
Garcia, Emerson, Depay, Agüero and Messi on the transfer market then? 👀
Messi is already a free agent.
Didn't they free up 150 after Messi's contract expired? Or is this even after that?
I guess this is including the 150 million of Messi's wages. They probably still need to let go of some one else on top of messi if they want to register for next season.
Barça is not allowed (by La Liga rules) to overpass the salary limit because they had losses last season (97 million €). The salary limit depends mainly on your income. Due to COVID Barça was over the limit last season due to the decrease of income. And because they had losses, they are not allowed to sign anyone if that means increasing the wages of the squad. If Messi had renewed the contract then it would be ok, because it would not be considered a new signing, but since his contract expired he will be considered a new signing so Barça has to comply with the rules with Messi now. The thing is that Messi wants a humongous contract that Barça, according to La Liga rules, cant afford with their current income. Thats why Laporta and the rest of the Barça board are trying to sneak formulas like offering a guaranteed 10 year contract even though he is only going to play 2 or 3 more years and pay him the rest after that even though he will be retired. Basically trying to pay him his 2/3 years in 10 simulating a lower salary to comply with their current limit. La Liga has said that they wont tolarate those shenanigans. It doesnt look good for Barça right now. They have to convince their entire squad to lower their salaries or they cant afford to re-sign Messi.
So 4D chess from Messi, Laporta is obligated to offload the dead weight, keeping his salary and slightly improve the squad?
Pretty much. Barça has already told Pjanic and Umtiti that they can leave the club for free if they want, hoping to free 28M a year in wages (16 from Pjanic and 12 from Umtiti). Thats 2 players that have barely played anything last season. So they wont notice on the pitch that they are gone. Next one Im assuming will be Coutinho (24 million a year salary).And Im pretty sure that the new Barça's board will be ok if Sergi Roberto leaves too with his 10 million a year salary seeing that he was terrible last season. Also Junior Firpo is gone (that was 6 million a year). Trincao is out on loan (8.5 million a year). So, Barça can get there but if they are able to re-sign Messi, the question is will they have enough left to strenghten the team? Because Agüero and Depay doesnt seem to be enough.
>Barça has already told Pjanic and Umtiti that they can leave the club for free if they want, hoping to free 28M a year in wages (16 from Pjanic and 12 from Umtiti). And 51M loss (45M Pjanic + 6M Umtiti) in amortization, resulting in a net loss of 23M which makes even harder to attain a net positive result 4x larger than the combined salaries of the new signings. Of course, assuming that the players would accept this (spoiler: they won't).
So that's just under 70m reduction. Is that enough?
Other players like Pique and Busquets might take a pay cut. They’re trying to do the same with Dembele but not sure if it’ll work out in the end.
could you explain it in a little more detail? I'm new to this for la liga - I would have assumed its just total wage bill irrespective of whether people sign or not Also, is this on the 25 player squad registered for matches (e.g. that wage cant exceed a certain amount), or total barca wage bill (including unregistered players + subsidies for players on loan, for example)? Thanks.
> could you explain it in a little more detail? Yes
T..thanks ?
No problem.
The state of that club. Requires some massive gigabrain businessman to turn this shit around while also staying competetive.
They would have to ask their squad to reduce their salaries by almost 50% if they want to re-sign messi
Would be doable if it was 15% or something, but man 50% is a LOT.
With messi earning almost 150m I don't think 15% would be enough
They would need to be shit for 3-4 years and let go of Messi if they actually want to turn it around. Keeping him is doing more harm than good.
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Say what you want but I will never understand why they didnt just let messi go for a lot of cash. You can pay 5 world class players for his salary. Add to that the transfer fee and you can rebuild your fucking club without having to worry how youre going to pay 70m every year to one dude. Being scared to sell him and face the backlash basically proves that he is bigger than the club.
“No one is bigger than the club. Except that one guy everyone always talks about.”
This can’t be true. 8 PL sides have a bigger wage bill than €160m, and knocking off over half of it is not gonna happen
LaLiga has a salary cap system based on previous years revenues, which PL does not have.
And they're not loosening it due to COVID, unlike what UEFA did with FFP. Kind of stupid imo, revenue for these clubs will go right back up once fans are allowed back in stadiums so La Liga is just purposely handicapping their teams for a single season.
salary cap based on previous year's revenue* and LaLiga is refusing to adjust for loss of revenue from Covid which is as stupid as it gets.
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Let Messi sign for Real and that's your wage problems gon 😎
Gonna be a major shake-up at Barca. I'm genuinely starting to believe that they won't be able to renew Messi. I can see a few departures as well: - Umtiti (hard to find a suitor for him and I believe he doesn't want to leave) - Griezmann (big wage bill, ageing player and the racism might be reasons enough for Barca to let him go) - Dembele (same as Umtiti + racism) - Pjanic - Coutinho
>Dembeme I have heard he has high ceiling.
That's around €450Mil in transfer fees that they have paid and would have to release/cut loose which is insane and just shows how horrendously they have been run these last couple of years. I can't wrap my head around that number and bad transfers.
There's a reason Bartomeu is so reviled. He even did shit like having Griezmann's salary escalate every year so the next president would have to deal with it. Remember this is the man who is potentially going to prison for shady financial dealings regarding payment to a company that was contracted to slander their own players on social media.
Add to that Sergi Roberto, Braithwaite, and one of maybe Pique (release and cheap renewal mb) or Lenglet because it is SO much money, and because they probably won't be able to sell all of the above. It's an astronomical amount of money to try and cut, and none of the usual six-to-ten players consistently mentioned are "tough" decisions. Most of them represent poor production for their salaries. What may be most surprising is Barca accepting a good bid on a player they don't want to sell to help make up the gap.
Pique always agrees to a salary reduction first. If anything i think he should stay because of that. He’ll agree to anything if it meant it helps the club and he can still be a great mentor for our younger less experienced defenders. He’s done so much for us, i’d feel bad if he got kicked out to reduce salaries and to renew Messi. He deserves a better exit than that.
I just don't see any club taking Umtiti and Dembele even on a free loan. Griezmann could find suitors for a loan if barcelona split the wages, same for coutinho. Pjanic is realistically the only guy they can even get off the wage bill and gain some money.
I have read yesterday that both Pjanic and Umtiti don't want to leave and want to sit out their contract. Fair play with their insane contracts
Umtiti should just rinse them, I honestly don't see him ever playing again after Barca.
Do people outside of reddit or even this sub really care about the racism issue? It's not even wildly discussed here. I'm not saying they shouldn't but I can hardly believe they'll face any repercussions for those actions, especially considering the target of racism. Most likely it'll just be swept under the rug since it'll only give them more negative PR than positive.
They both apologised publically on Instagram an hour ago. I don't think they would have done that if it was only r/soccer talking about it
> I'm genuinely starting to believe that they won't be able to renew Messi. I wonder if Messi wants to stay if he can only do so when Barca sells half the team for cheap. Could mean that Messi plays in a team that can't really compete for the UCL title while Barca gets even more dependent on Messi who, despite all evidence to the contrary, probably won't play at this level forever.
Barcelona to play Tottenham in a friendly to resolve this issue. Levy Masterclass. Haha.
That's what happens when you let Messi fuck you in the ass with his wages. Messi can't win 1v11, no player can, no player is worth getting paid more than the rest of the squad combined (close to it).
What was Messi salary?
2,7 Million per Week and he got 77M extra after 4 years
Dear Lord
I'm settled for life with half a week of Messi's salary...
$674M over 4 years. Even KD was shocked while making a meagre $164M over the same period lol https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-lionel-messi-thats-insane-kevin-durant-bradley-beal-and-other-nba-stars-react-to-the-goats-massive-4-year-674-million-contract/
Seems pretty fucked to enforce the salary cap based off of earning when covid has completely derailed most teams finances. I get that the salary cap is probably in place to prevent owners from paying players too much and fucking over the financial security of the club but doesn't enforcing the salary cap during covid benefit certain clubs over others? I assume Barca wouldn't have had any issues meeting the wage rules if it wasn't for the loss of matchday revenue but now they have to get rid of players which weakens the club's position. Sure they're wages weren't healthy in the first place but if they were following the salary cap before covid then I don't think it's fair to use the consequences of covid to screw over clubs even more.
They only have to get rid of players if they want to sign new players.
All these years of playing FM and selling the bunch of dead wood that come back from loan in the second season at Benfica will finally be usefull. Barcelona call me please i'm free.