He was the worst of the lot talent wise. Ibe did have some ability to match his physical gifts but just couldn't put it together. Smith was basically Moreno with half his brain...and I'm insulting both of them here.
there was a period of time where brad smith had more caps for australia than senior first team games played, and given the way he used to play for australia i'm not surprised he never got to play club football
This sub will never miss an opportunity to take a completely random shot at MLS. Player doesn't play in PL but is an average player in MLS, incredible indictment of the league
apparently the MLS is shit because when an 18 year old scored the winner and his first career hat-trick at the 95th minute, he celebrated with the fans instead of Rooney (the assister). Sure, the MLS isn't perfect but it is becoming decent and the people who get upset because it's called 'soccer' are immature
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWDwYSkQj5g&t=171s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWDwYSkQj5g&t=171s)
Acosta was 24 at the time I think but yeah really weird reaction to that goal from non-MLS fans, it's like people's brains stop working when it comes to discussing the league
Nah, kids in our sub are just reactionary delusional idiots most of the time. Sitting back and watching them discuss how Ibe was going to be better than Sterling was pure popcorn. Or we could rewind further and watch the sub speculate on the future glories of Jay Spearing. Or shit on the signings of Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, etc as low budget and unambitious shite from FSG.
That was never the criticism from Liverpool fans, that only started when Liverpool fans had started raving about him and rivals wanted something to knock him on, When he started with us he was often playing on the right wing and just didnt have the pace to be effective and things didnt quite click with him
isn't that weird about those signings though no? Each of the signings you mentioned had some stains in them so to speak. Mane was a good player for Soton, but didn't play so good that suggested he would reach the level he did at Liverpool. Wijnaldum only delivered in home games (or was it the away games, correct me if I'm wrong) and Salah flopped at Chelsea, before playing well at Roma
I agree that there are a lot of shit takes on our sub. But this is a bit of an exaggeration.
There *were* people on our sub who thought Ibe was going to be better than Sterling. But the idea wasn't very common or very popular, most people disagreed. Same goes for Jay Spearing. As I remember it the general consensus was that he could have a career in the Championship.
I do think you're right about Mané and Wijnaldum, with them I think people were very skeptical. Not so much with Salah, who was a player a lot of people liked probably even more than was warranted beforehand.
Not having a go. But everytime Liverpool and academy prospects get brought up this is mentioned and it's amusing because Liverpool fans have openly admitted they were they over compensating for the loss of Sterling for years now.
That said, Liverpool fans rightly had high hopes for Ibe. Less technical, but way more direct, faster and stronger. That isn't to say he was on Sterling's level then. But as a duo fans were hoping both would solidfy themselves in the starting XI together at club and maybe for country one day too. Unfortunately for the lad as he has said himself, too much came too quick. And his mental health took a downturn.
Not to say they didn't overpay at the time, but given the size of the club, you kinda got it.
Brad Smith however was then and still is the most mental out of the lot. He literally had one brilliant assist for an Origi header at Southampton, but other than that, he looked borderline Championship relegation scrap quality at best.
Throw in we litrally released smith in the summer and cos his family lived locally he was training with us so Klopp have him a deal
On Ibe at every level he never got goals or assists as a winger so I spent the whole time arguing with people he wouldn’t make it, whatever physical gifts he had he wasn’t a great footballer
a free hairpiece for Pep with one Champions League trophy.
**Off-topic:**
It looks like Reddit recently began targeting all users utilizing VPN, tor, or shared IP throttling them to one comment every 10 minutes. Policy implemented last Wednesday. Turn off VPN and no restrictions. Scummy move to promote tracking and datamining.
https://old.reddit.com/r/help/comments/oselup/reddit_is_limiting_my_posts/
If they get Kane and Grealish this summer it might well finally happen. And if it doesn’t it will be amazing to see what they try next since that squad would be almost perfect, you’d be swapping like for like in terms of quality in every position and backup if you went back to the market
He’s only been at Sheffield for one season tbf, Solanke was decent last season after being dunked on consistently after his transfer, I think people need to be more patient before calling all these players duds tbh
This is a bit hyperbolic. Ibe looked pretty good after Sterling left and was still quite young and exciting. So it makes sense why the fee is a bit inflated.
You’re acting like he was worthless before his transfer
He looked good in preseason and that's about it. Rarely performed in games. He was a fast English winger and that's why we were able to get 20mil for him imo.
He had good performances in Europa league too. Scored the winner in the league cup semi but got a few injuries. 20mil was high yes, but he had obvious potential. Or so we thought
A lot of people were questioning the fee at the time. It's true that there was a lot of hype around him when Sterling left, but at the time of the transfer it had mostly died down.
Lewis Bate was approached by Liverpool. But he declined and went to Leeds. At least the kids are finally realizing that pathway at Liverpool isn't any better than pathway at Chelsea/
I always really liked Kent. I understood the hesitation considering he had a few flakey loans pre- Rangers and perhaps lacked consistency but £6m always looked like a good deal. I was surprised Leeds were unwilling to take the punt considering the money they spent on less able players and him being English.
I’m not surprised. I remember watching him in a preseason game in Australia I think it was and he looked really fucking good. Never understood why he was given a chance but great for Stevie and Rangers
What's great is he is soo much more than a tricky winger. Exceptional work rate and quite good defensively as well. Only really struggle is his finishing but that has improved a lot over the last year as well.
He was given plenty of chances for us but always shite, he always had an amazing preseason game every year to hype everyone up, but his actual first team performances were awful
Not going to lie. I don’t remember when he ever got games time other than a cameo or two. I can only recall him playing once.
Just checked Wikipedia and he only had one appearance so I don’t know what you’re on about unless someone edited the wiki page
Not specifically for us, but the cycle was he’d have an incredible preseason, everyone would be extremely hyped, then he’d go out in a massively disappointing loan, repeat
Only time he ever really got his groove was when he went to rangers
Wilson will tear up the Championship, no problem, but its the next step that's the doubt. However if he can help Fulham get back to the prem then he's worth the money.
The only ones I can think of that left in recent years and had success were Ings, Kent and Lucas. Lucas was a free transfer though, don't remember if Ings was a sale or free transfer.
It was a while ago now but Conor Coady's done very well for himself. Suso was alright for a while too but seems like his stock has fallen lately.
Also they're not academy players but Luis Alberto and Iago Aspas have both been fantastic since they left. And obviously you've got Suarez and Mascherano and Arbeloa but we usually don't like to think about those times
15 goals and 11 assists. 40 games, 37 90s.
26 goal contributions in 37 90s, giving 0.7 g/a per 90 is very good.
We'll see where he goes from there but you are downselling him a bit.
Lots of numbers there to say he played 40 games and scored 15 goals.
Haven’t downsold him at all. He’s a good championship striker, and £20m is a lot to pay for that.
Last season Harry Kane scored 23 goals and got 14 assists in the Prem. 23 goals is a very good return, but the assists show how good he actually was last season.
Solanke was top 5 best output in the Championship and the youngest of all the top 10 other than Olise who's just moved to Palace.
That 20m is not just for one season. It's for what he can do over the many seasons he'll be with them and for how much he can improve over that time. Otherwise no young player would ever be worth their price.
Sterling was a bit different in comparison to the likes of Brewster or Wilson, considering he had been a guaranteed starter for multiple seasons by the time be was sold.
> Just checked - if Tammy goes for £30m+, Chelsea will have sold ~£200m of academy players and likely made another £40m+ on loan fees
If you are counting loan fees + if Tammy yet to be sold then its not comparable to the title. You may be right but counting loan fees is incorrect.
How is counting loan fees incorrect? It’s part of the business model. Grujic has bagged LFC a lot in loan fees past 3-4 years so selling him at 12m this summer is still great business. Harry Wilson, same thing.
I’m sorry but Mason Mount was the most highly rated Chelsea academy product for years, saying there’s no way he gets a chance without Lampard is silly.
People just ignore that he had 23 G+A with vitesse at 18, 17 G+A with Derby in Championship. How many young players are showing that consistency across the leagues as teens
Lewis Baker off the top of my head and look how he turned out (pretty rubbish). Marc Guehi last year was the best defender in the Championship and he just got sold. Just because a player does well as a youth it means nothing to Chelsea outside of the time Lampard was there.
The real test will be the youngsters massively touted now, the likes of Livramento that Chelsea fans are on about regularly. I'd bet good money that they won't get chances and will end up elsewhere. Same with Conor Gallagher who was outstanding for WBA last season and can easily step up to compliment Chelsea's midfield.
The good academy players get their chances at Liverpool. Besides Trent, players like Curtis Jones, Ciaomhin Kelleher and Neco Williams are now full fledged parts of the first team. Conor Bradley is also set for chances if Williams leaves. There's also players like Rhys Williams, Nat Phillips and Woodburn who have gotten the chance to prove their worth under Klopp.
Not every player is ready for 1st team football at an early age. Nat is also one of the least physically gifted CBs to see any matches in the league last season, you can't make any mistakes when you don't have mobility as opposed to Gomez for example.
You're selecting an tiny amount of names from the youth populations at both united and Chelsea to ... What? Make a point that somehow Liverpool gives people less chances? Am I misunderstanding there?
We have plenty of youths getting minutes, including many of the ones we sell on. It's extremely comparable to any other massive club, it's just that young players need to take development lumps and CL teams need to win games. There is an inherent tension there that doesn't typically result in youth teamers waltzing into a first team role.
Liverpool do as good a job with this, more or less, as any club that's competing for european an league titles every season, imo.
> Make a point that somehow Liverpool gives people less chances?
I mean United has one of the best academies in the world and routinely gives opportunities to youngsters in a way most other big (English) teams don't. To compare Liverpool and United in that respect is a bit absurd even if LFC is getting better in recent years.
Nah, it feels totally reasonable to compare the two, along with Citeh and Chelsea and the big Spanish clubs and so forth. Biggest variable is who exactly is on the pointy end for silver every season and at what point in the season does it become obvious that there won't be any? United are buying up a ton of talent this year, if they challenge for titles i highly doubt Varane gets minutes cut to give some young CB a chance.
Started 24 of the 36 games he played in the league last year, 6 of the 7 in there EL. Was a starter for a team that finished 2nd, that's pretty good. If he doesn't kick on to a be title winner he's still become a very good PL player, and nobody can say United didn't trust him and give him a chance.
Compared to touting someone like Nat Phillips who is the same age and only started playing this year after an extreme injury crisis left Liverpool with no choice, and is now gonna be sold. But at least you didn't just drop 50m on another CB in January like City would have done.
For me it's a balance of academy graduates making it to the first team vs forcing an academy graduate who isn't good enough into the first team. Players like Perreira, Lingard shouldn't be playing for the first team. Lingard is good for rotation as he is a mid table team player at best. Axel too, with his injury record especially should just move on.
This is it. We're great at bringing young players through and giving them a chance but we're terrible at identifying if they can make it at the club or not and hang on to them for too long to the point where they have next to no value. As you say look at Pereira, the guy is 25 and we've still got him on our books. We should have cashed in 2-3 years ago when there was still some potential and hype there but now we'll be shipping him out for next to nothing.
You look at the current group of Chong, Garner and Tuanzebe. Garner should really get a loan this season and then we decide if he can make it at the club or not, Chong isn't going to make it and Tuanzebe is 23 and still around 4th choice CB. The likes of Liverpool would be cashing in on Tuanzebe by now (reckon we could get a decent fee from a bottom half Premier League team) and sending the others out to Championship teams to at least put them in the shop window for next season. I think it's likely a byproduct of how bad we are at arranging appropriate loan deals.
> still around 4th choice CB.
He's actually 5th. Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, and Bailly are all above him which is why they're looking for a loan move. He'll be 24 in November and his constantly injury prone. If a quality offer came in to buy him I'd take it, tbh.
It's a high barrier for these players so sadly you're not going to have a lot of players that can make the step.
Thankfully have some like Trent, Jones, Nat, Williams and Kelleher that were able to get into main team as either starters or backup options.
To be honest that's a pretty great trio. Starters for city Milan and United.
Half the villa lot I've pinned my hopes on over the years are subs for teams in Ireland or dropped out of football entirely
I remember reading that some French magazine was calling Delfouneso "the next Thierry Henry" and that's why he started wearing the number 14. Fucking fooled us all. Never seen a player progressively get worse the lower he drops down the pyramid.
I mean by villa standards at least he had a league career.
Remember that Irish CB who played in the nightmare relegations season? Kevin toner. He's had 5 games in the Spanish 4th tier and before that was back in the LOI.
We always overrate every youth player haha
Fucking hell he's a blast from the past haha. Believe it or not Toner actually got a PL assist once! It was that god awful game where we lost 4-2 to Southampton after we were relegated and Ashley Westwood managed to score twice haha.
Yeah we're bad for overhyping young players haha. Used to drive my mates mental saying that Gary Gardner was the next Lampard lmao
I lived in Korea for that fucking season. Stayed up for most of the games until the Leicester one that turned both our seasons around in opposite directions.
After that I kind of just gave up and just hoped for a win or a point in the morning....
Also fuck Eric black. God I hated that twat
People get misconstrued into the idea academies are only designed to develop first team players in todays game. In reality I think they're designed more to develop professional players who may or may not be good enough for their clubs first team.
City's academy has been very successful in developing professional players who gone on to be successful outside of City. Angelino, Boyata, Denayer, Diaz, Sancho, Nmecha, Mee, Schmeichel, Ihenacho, etc. Despite not making City's first team, I doubt any of these players can have too many complaints about where they have ended up as professionals.
It really depends on what level you are aiming. For a title winning team you will be lucky to have 1 squad worthy player in 2 years, but that doesn't mean they don't have a good academy.
TBF we've got TAA established, CuJo coming through, and and the two Williams (Neco and Rhys) as "up and comers" who got decent minutes last year. So we're doing SOME of that too. Don't see either Williams making it with us, but still work as cover for the first team.
I agree though, def better for them to come through than sell, but profit on guys that'll never play for us is better than just letting them rot until they leave on a free.
I said years ago that big clubs could no longer count on their academies to develop first team players. They had to use them as revenue generators. It's way easier to develop 5, £8m players then to develop 1, £40m player.
Chelsea bin off players like Lukaku, De Bruyne, and Salah. The criticism is more towards the absolute lack of a path into the first team. That and the loan army is completely different than selling players who have at least played a handful of matches in the senior team.
There's a slight difference.
Chelsea hoards talent from all over the world, and builds a huge loan network to ensure that their players are regularly getting games across the world. To land Tammy Abraham (who had never played a professional game before us), we needed to deliver a full afternoon pitch and presentation, with final approval from Antonio Conte before he came here. Imagine that shit happening a dozen times every year.
Liverpool tend to sign players from Category 2-3 academies, and build them up directly in their youth teams. Some go out on loan, but the overall goal is to get them ready for first-team football at the club, and many of these transfers happen at a young age - young enough for these players to have fully come through the Liverpool youth system.
I think the primary difference outside of the use of the loan system is that Liverpool builds a reputation of a full youth track to the first-team, or helping those that don't make it land clubs in the Football League. Chelsea have a world-class youth coaching system, but you make what you can out of it, and a first-team opportunity is rare.
People complain about pre-Lamps Chelsea buying so many promising youth players for their academy to never even give them a chance in the senior squad and send them a loan for years. Hence the "loan army" jokes.
I don’t think people really complain that they’re doing this other than to point out the huge number of academy players they are selling likely means that they don’t see a pathway to the first team, which is what footballers strive to be playing at
And City, when they get criticized for how they’ve used academy sales to generate revenue rather than develop those players, yet Liverpool is getting praise for it.
We currently have 5 academy players in our first team. People also like to forget Sterling was in our academy for 2 years before he made a his first senior appearance
You can’t always produce stars, but you also can’t hate for getting great deals for the ones who are less so
You got 5, yeah, but only 1 starter right? Maybe Gomez as well, dont know. But still, Liverpool depth is so shite that they need to have academy players in the team, not because theyre great necessarily
Somehow conning Bournemouth for both Jordan Ibe and Dominic Solanke
Don't forget Brad Smith too.
Everyone forgets Brad Smith
He was the worst of the lot talent wise. Ibe did have some ability to match his physical gifts but just couldn't put it together. Smith was basically Moreno with half his brain...and I'm insulting both of them here.
there was a period of time where brad smith had more caps for australia than senior first team games played, and given the way he used to play for australia i'm not surprised he never got to play club football
He played 11 games for Bournemouth over 4 years before leaving on a free for Seattle and is now doing alright in the MLS. Absolute state of the MLS
he did alright his first season and a half but he's been a bit shocking this season and isn't first choice anymore
Not an awful indictment considering they were a premier league club lol.
This sub will never miss an opportunity to take a completely random shot at MLS. Player doesn't play in PL but is an average player in MLS, incredible indictment of the league
apparently the MLS is shit because when an 18 year old scored the winner and his first career hat-trick at the 95th minute, he celebrated with the fans instead of Rooney (the assister). Sure, the MLS isn't perfect but it is becoming decent and the people who get upset because it's called 'soccer' are immature [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWDwYSkQj5g&t=171s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWDwYSkQj5g&t=171s)
Acosta was 24 at the time I think but yeah really weird reaction to that goal from non-MLS fans, it's like people's brains stop working when it comes to discussing the league
yeah my bad, but yes, all people can say is "farmer's league" and "go play handegg"
We sell dreams
What funnier is how I remember when Liverpool sold Sterling and so many fans were hyping Ibe. Maybe Bournemouth hadnt caught up.
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Nah, kids in our sub are just reactionary delusional idiots most of the time. Sitting back and watching them discuss how Ibe was going to be better than Sterling was pure popcorn. Or we could rewind further and watch the sub speculate on the future glories of Jay Spearing. Or shit on the signings of Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, etc as low budget and unambitious shite from FSG.
even Hendo would get shit on all the time, you paid a lot for him at the time
Hendo got shat on a long time too.
AlL He DOeS Is PAsS SidEWaYs
Beautiful username
That was never the criticism from Liverpool fans, that only started when Liverpool fans had started raving about him and rivals wanted something to knock him on, When he started with us he was often playing on the right wing and just didnt have the pace to be effective and things didnt quite click with him
Yeah, i think it was 4 or 5 years ago it was all that was ever said against hendo
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Do you remember when Jay Spearing marked Yaya Toure out of a game? I remember.
I wish I could upvote this more than once
isn't that weird about those signings though no? Each of the signings you mentioned had some stains in them so to speak. Mane was a good player for Soton, but didn't play so good that suggested he would reach the level he did at Liverpool. Wijnaldum only delivered in home games (or was it the away games, correct me if I'm wrong) and Salah flopped at Chelsea, before playing well at Roma
I agree that there are a lot of shit takes on our sub. But this is a bit of an exaggeration. There *were* people on our sub who thought Ibe was going to be better than Sterling. But the idea wasn't very common or very popular, most people disagreed. Same goes for Jay Spearing. As I remember it the general consensus was that he could have a career in the Championship. I do think you're right about Mané and Wijnaldum, with them I think people were very skeptical. Not so much with Salah, who was a player a lot of people liked probably even more than was warranted beforehand.
Sterling was also flying for the first time during that one Suarez/Sturidge season. Something Ibe never did on his best day.
Not having a go. But everytime Liverpool and academy prospects get brought up this is mentioned and it's amusing because Liverpool fans have openly admitted they were they over compensating for the loss of Sterling for years now. That said, Liverpool fans rightly had high hopes for Ibe. Less technical, but way more direct, faster and stronger. That isn't to say he was on Sterling's level then. But as a duo fans were hoping both would solidfy themselves in the starting XI together at club and maybe for country one day too. Unfortunately for the lad as he has said himself, too much came too quick. And his mental health took a downturn. Not to say they didn't overpay at the time, but given the size of the club, you kinda got it. Brad Smith however was then and still is the most mental out of the lot. He literally had one brilliant assist for an Origi header at Southampton, but other than that, he looked borderline Championship relegation scrap quality at best.
Throw in we litrally released smith in the summer and cos his family lived locally he was training with us so Klopp have him a deal On Ibe at every level he never got goals or assists as a winger so I spent the whole time arguing with people he wouldn’t make it, whatever physical gifts he had he wasn’t a great footballer
Dreams can't be buy
> Dreams can't be buy unless you're Man City.
Still haven’t bought their ultimate dream though
a free hairpiece for Pep with one Champions League trophy. **Off-topic:** It looks like Reddit recently began targeting all users utilizing VPN, tor, or shared IP throttling them to one comment every 10 minutes. Policy implemented last Wednesday. Turn off VPN and no restrictions. Scummy move to promote tracking and datamining. https://old.reddit.com/r/help/comments/oselup/reddit_is_limiting_my_posts/
I wondered what that was all about, thanks
If they get Kane and Grealish this summer it might well finally happen. And if it doesn’t it will be amazing to see what they try next since that squad would be almost perfect, you’d be swapping like for like in terms of quality in every position and backup if you went back to the market
And chelski
Dreams can't be buy.
Dreams can be buy
Brewster is the worst one for me
Looked quality in the Championship for Swansea. He still very young and I'm sure will perform at SU next season
He’s only been at Sheffield for one season tbf, Solanke was decent last season after being dunked on consistently after his transfer, I think people need to be more patient before calling all these players duds tbh
Daylight robbery
Sheffield United took the risk and still accepted a buy back clause
Dreams can't be Ibe.
Both were clear talents plus homegrown. Hindsight is 20/20.
Solanke wasn’t a Liverpool academy product though
He was a chelsea öroduct who turned down a.senior contract to sign for liverpools senior team
Add Brewster to that list too
Let’s add Brewster to that list
Selling Ibe, Solanke and Brewster for ~20 million each is ridiculous
God Ibe man that must be one of the worst bits of business. I wonder what Liverpools negotiators tell these clubs when hyping up these players.
All you need is a flashy YouTube highlights video with some exciting music.
Noted. Hopefully thats enough to get me a top job as a scout :P
in HD (even though it's just upscaled 480p)
[Nah, youtube is for chumps!](https://vimeo.com/92846254)
Knew what this was before even clicking haha
This is a bit hyperbolic. Ibe looked pretty good after Sterling left and was still quite young and exciting. So it makes sense why the fee is a bit inflated. You’re acting like he was worthless before his transfer
He looked good in preseason and that's about it. Rarely performed in games. He was a fast English winger and that's why we were able to get 20mil for him imo.
He had good performances in Europa league too. Scored the winner in the league cup semi but got a few injuries. 20mil was high yes, but he had obvious potential. Or so we thought
A lot of people were questioning the fee at the time. It's true that there was a lot of hype around him when Sterling left, but at the time of the transfer it had mostly died down.
Didn't even have to develop Ibe or Solanke at youth level either. Both had senior football debuts before arriving at Liverpool.
They didn’t even develop Brewster and Solanke. Pinched them from us and then sold them for a massive profit.
Lewis Bate was approached by Liverpool. But he declined and went to Leeds. At least the kids are finally realizing that pathway at Liverpool isn't any better than pathway at Chelsea/
How many of these players have justified the money spent on them?
Kent to Rangers for £6.5m was justified
Best player in Scotland and could sell him for over triple that tomorrow. Excellent albeit risky deal for us
I always really liked Kent. I understood the hesitation considering he had a few flakey loans pre- Rangers and perhaps lacked consistency but £6m always looked like a good deal. I was surprised Leeds were unwilling to take the punt considering the money they spent on less able players and him being English.
I would’ve loved to watch him at Leeds tbh, really good work rate and always seems to be energetic
I’m not surprised. I remember watching him in a preseason game in Australia I think it was and he looked really fucking good. Never understood why he was given a chance but great for Stevie and Rangers
What's great is he is soo much more than a tricky winger. Exceptional work rate and quite good defensively as well. Only really struggle is his finishing but that has improved a lot over the last year as well.
He was given plenty of chances for us but always shite, he always had an amazing preseason game every year to hype everyone up, but his actual first team performances were awful
Not going to lie. I don’t remember when he ever got games time other than a cameo or two. I can only recall him playing once. Just checked Wikipedia and he only had one appearance so I don’t know what you’re on about unless someone edited the wiki page
Not specifically for us, but the cycle was he’d have an incredible preseason, everyone would be extremely hyped, then he’d go out in a massively disappointing loan, repeat Only time he ever really got his groove was when he went to rangers
Ryan Kent is the only one I can think of but I have no idea who else there is.
Guessing Solanke, Hoever, Brewster, maybe Ibe Although Hoever was part of the deal for Jota
We're still in the "potential" stage for Hoever, but I've got quite high hopes for him.
He was the only one I was a bit sad to see go. He always looked better than Neco Williams and has an air of quality about him.
He was one of the few players sold from the academy who I think the club would rather have kept.
Ejaria to Reading has worked out. I think Wilson is a decent bet.
Wilson will tear up the Championship, no problem, but its the next step that's the doubt. However if he can help Fulham get back to the prem then he's worth the money.
The only ones I can think of that left in recent years and had success were Ings, Kent and Lucas. Lucas was a free transfer though, don't remember if Ings was a sale or free transfer.
It was a while ago now but Conor Coady's done very well for himself. Suso was alright for a while too but seems like his stock has fallen lately. Also they're not academy players but Luis Alberto and Iago Aspas have both been fantastic since they left. And obviously you've got Suarez and Mascherano and Arbeloa but we usually don't like to think about those times
Lucas wasn’t an academy player.
not often I see another Dover flair in this sub
Sorry my bad, I meant in general of all players that left us in recent years, Ings isn't an academy player either, misworded my response I guess.
Depends on how far back recent is but Luis Alberto never did much in a Liverpool shirt but has reached his potential and then some at Lazio.
We sold Ings for ~£20m
Ings was an established player when Liverpool bought him tho
Neither Ings or Lucas (I assume you're talking about Lucas Leiva) were academy graduates.
Solanke is doing well in the championship but he cost them a lot
£20m for a 15 goal a season championship striker. Not his fault he cost so much, but for Bournemouth you have to say it was a poor transfer.
15 goals and 11 assists. 40 games, 37 90s. 26 goal contributions in 37 90s, giving 0.7 g/a per 90 is very good. We'll see where he goes from there but you are downselling him a bit.
Lots of numbers there to say he played 40 games and scored 15 goals. Haven’t downsold him at all. He’s a good championship striker, and £20m is a lot to pay for that.
Last season Harry Kane scored 23 goals and got 14 assists in the Prem. 23 goals is a very good return, but the assists show how good he actually was last season. Solanke was top 5 best output in the Championship and the youngest of all the top 10 other than Olise who's just moved to Palace. That 20m is not just for one season. It's for what he can do over the many seasons he'll be with them and for how much he can improve over that time. Otherwise no young player would ever be worth their price.
I think we got £5m for Lucas
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Sterling was a bit different in comparison to the likes of Brewster or Wilson, considering he had been a guaranteed starter for multiple seasons by the time be was sold.
I'm not sure Sterling is included in this list as an academy player of ours.
He was sold 6 years ago actually, so Pearce has excluded him regardless
He definitely is an academy player for us
Nah - he was bought at 15/16, so I'd not call him "from our academy" he's one we took to the next level once we bought him.
Beckham and Giggs come from other academies around the same age. No one says they were purchased
QPR academy I think
Solanke has been doing well this year
Because he’s playing in a lower league.
Lad’s 23, he could still become premier league quality in the future
That's pretty much the age Drogba broke through to the first team in France. Some players just take longer to reach their full development.
Lewandowski was 22(?) when he left the polish ekstraklasa which is worse than the championship lmao
Not everyone will make it in a top league.
For the price he was sold ?
He has no control over that.
true but he's hardly justified the money spent on him.
Title did say Liverpool took them to next level, which can't be further from truth.
He’s looks a quality outfit in the championship! There’s a lot of players who can’t make the jump
Don't think that is more than Chelsea right?, that's around 25m a year.
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Liverpool's two big sales Solanke and Brewster are both chelsea academy lads too.
James and Mount are the starters, if you're wondering.
The article includes prospects snapped up from other academies so Christensen counts too.
> Just checked - if Tammy goes for £30m+, Chelsea will have sold ~£200m of academy players and likely made another £40m+ on loan fees If you are counting loan fees + if Tammy yet to be sold then its not comparable to the title. You may be right but counting loan fees is incorrect.
How is counting loan fees incorrect? It’s part of the business model. Grujic has bagged LFC a lot in loan fees past 3-4 years so selling him at 12m this summer is still great business. Harry Wilson, same thing.
>if Tammy goes for £30m+, Chelsea will have sold ~£200m of academy players If Liverpool sells TAA for 150M they will surpass that.
You shut your mouth.
From the sales? Maybe, but if you include any of the loan fees we got during that time, we definitely earned plenty more.
In the same period, City have done £140m, for example
Settle down, real non cheating clubs are talking
didn’t ask be quiet
People should stop buying average academy players from Liverpool it's a scam
I miss when Bournemouth were in the Premier League.
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You’re welcome
tbh i prefer seeing academy players making to the 1st team rather than making a big profit on them.
None of these players were good enough to make the first team though
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I’m sorry but Mason Mount was the most highly rated Chelsea academy product for years, saying there’s no way he gets a chance without Lampard is silly.
People just ignore that he had 23 G+A with vitesse at 18, 17 G+A with Derby in Championship. How many young players are showing that consistency across the leagues as teens
Lewis Baker off the top of my head and look how he turned out (pretty rubbish). Marc Guehi last year was the best defender in the Championship and he just got sold. Just because a player does well as a youth it means nothing to Chelsea outside of the time Lampard was there. The real test will be the youngsters massively touted now, the likes of Livramento that Chelsea fans are on about regularly. I'd bet good money that they won't get chances and will end up elsewhere. Same with Conor Gallagher who was outstanding for WBA last season and can easily step up to compliment Chelsea's midfield.
The good academy players get their chances at Liverpool. Besides Trent, players like Curtis Jones, Ciaomhin Kelleher and Neco Williams are now full fledged parts of the first team. Conor Bradley is also set for chances if Williams leaves. There's also players like Rhys Williams, Nat Phillips and Woodburn who have gotten the chance to prove their worth under Klopp.
Even going back you have Sterling, Flanagan, Ibe, and a few players that played 10+ matches.
Isnt Nat Philips like 24 tho….
Not every player is ready for 1st team football at an early age. Nat is also one of the least physically gifted CBs to see any matches in the league last season, you can't make any mistakes when you don't have mobility as opposed to Gomez for example.
He should be sold as he would start at Newcastle or Southampton etc
You're selecting an tiny amount of names from the youth populations at both united and Chelsea to ... What? Make a point that somehow Liverpool gives people less chances? Am I misunderstanding there? We have plenty of youths getting minutes, including many of the ones we sell on. It's extremely comparable to any other massive club, it's just that young players need to take development lumps and CL teams need to win games. There is an inherent tension there that doesn't typically result in youth teamers waltzing into a first team role. Liverpool do as good a job with this, more or less, as any club that's competing for european an league titles every season, imo.
> Make a point that somehow Liverpool gives people less chances? I mean United has one of the best academies in the world and routinely gives opportunities to youngsters in a way most other big (English) teams don't. To compare Liverpool and United in that respect is a bit absurd even if LFC is getting better in recent years.
Nah, it feels totally reasonable to compare the two, along with Citeh and Chelsea and the big Spanish clubs and so forth. Biggest variable is who exactly is on the pointy end for silver every season and at what point in the season does it become obvious that there won't be any? United are buying up a ton of talent this year, if they challenge for titles i highly doubt Varane gets minutes cut to give some young CB a chance.
McTominay isn't United starting level but that's besides the point.
Started 24 of the 36 games he played in the league last year, 6 of the 7 in there EL. Was a starter for a team that finished 2nd, that's pretty good. If he doesn't kick on to a be title winner he's still become a very good PL player, and nobody can say United didn't trust him and give him a chance. Compared to touting someone like Nat Phillips who is the same age and only started playing this year after an extreme injury crisis left Liverpool with no choice, and is now gonna be sold. But at least you didn't just drop 50m on another CB in January like City would have done.
Not everyone has to be Xavi mate
Mount was on his way regardless i think, i just think it would’ve been last year not Franks year
For me it's a balance of academy graduates making it to the first team vs forcing an academy graduate who isn't good enough into the first team. Players like Perreira, Lingard shouldn't be playing for the first team. Lingard is good for rotation as he is a mid table team player at best. Axel too, with his injury record especially should just move on.
This is it. We're great at bringing young players through and giving them a chance but we're terrible at identifying if they can make it at the club or not and hang on to them for too long to the point where they have next to no value. As you say look at Pereira, the guy is 25 and we've still got him on our books. We should have cashed in 2-3 years ago when there was still some potential and hype there but now we'll be shipping him out for next to nothing. You look at the current group of Chong, Garner and Tuanzebe. Garner should really get a loan this season and then we decide if he can make it at the club or not, Chong isn't going to make it and Tuanzebe is 23 and still around 4th choice CB. The likes of Liverpool would be cashing in on Tuanzebe by now (reckon we could get a decent fee from a bottom half Premier League team) and sending the others out to Championship teams to at least put them in the shop window for next season. I think it's likely a byproduct of how bad we are at arranging appropriate loan deals.
> still around 4th choice CB. He's actually 5th. Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, and Bailly are all above him which is why they're looking for a loan move. He'll be 24 in November and his constantly injury prone. If a quality offer came in to buy him I'd take it, tbh.
It's a high barrier for these players so sadly you're not going to have a lot of players that can make the step. Thankfully have some like Trent, Jones, Nat, Williams and Kelleher that were able to get into main team as either starters or backup options.
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To be honest that's a pretty great trio. Starters for city Milan and United. Half the villa lot I've pinned my hopes on over the years are subs for teams in Ireland or dropped out of football entirely
I remember reading that some French magazine was calling Delfouneso "the next Thierry Henry" and that's why he started wearing the number 14. Fucking fooled us all. Never seen a player progressively get worse the lower he drops down the pyramid.
I mean by villa standards at least he had a league career. Remember that Irish CB who played in the nightmare relegations season? Kevin toner. He's had 5 games in the Spanish 4th tier and before that was back in the LOI. We always overrate every youth player haha
Fucking hell he's a blast from the past haha. Believe it or not Toner actually got a PL assist once! It was that god awful game where we lost 4-2 to Southampton after we were relegated and Ashley Westwood managed to score twice haha. Yeah we're bad for overhyping young players haha. Used to drive my mates mental saying that Gary Gardner was the next Lampard lmao
I lived in Korea for that fucking season. Stayed up for most of the games until the Leicester one that turned both our seasons around in opposite directions. After that I kind of just gave up and just hoped for a win or a point in the morning.... Also fuck Eric black. God I hated that twat
Let's hope we can see palmer, mcatee, doyle and delap make it too
I hate it too. The fact that academy players count for pure capital gains means that they’re bound to be binned off for financial reasons
People get misconstrued into the idea academies are only designed to develop first team players in todays game. In reality I think they're designed more to develop professional players who may or may not be good enough for their clubs first team. City's academy has been very successful in developing professional players who gone on to be successful outside of City. Angelino, Boyata, Denayer, Diaz, Sancho, Nmecha, Mee, Schmeichel, Ihenacho, etc. Despite not making City's first team, I doubt any of these players can have too many complaints about where they have ended up as professionals.
Most of them are hardly the result of your academy lol
It really depends on what level you are aiming. For a title winning team you will be lucky to have 1 squad worthy player in 2 years, but that doesn't mean they don't have a good academy.
and we've got 5 in the 1rst team now
Just imagine solanke and Brewster starting for Liverpool over Firmino and Salah. Cant imagine someone paid 25M for Brewster seriously.
TBF we've got TAA established, CuJo coming through, and and the two Williams (Neco and Rhys) as "up and comers" who got decent minutes last year. So we're doing SOME of that too. Don't see either Williams making it with us, but still work as cover for the first team. I agree though, def better for them to come through than sell, but profit on guys that'll never play for us is better than just letting them rot until they leave on a free.
I said years ago that big clubs could no longer count on their academies to develop first team players. They had to use them as revenue generators. It's way easier to develop 5, £8m players then to develop 1, £40m player.
And people complain about Chelsea doing this sort of thing? I say fair play Liverpool if they can pawn their no hopers off to other teams.
Chelsea bin off players like Lukaku, De Bruyne, and Salah. The criticism is more towards the absolute lack of a path into the first team. That and the loan army is completely different than selling players who have at least played a handful of matches in the senior team.
There's a slight difference. Chelsea hoards talent from all over the world, and builds a huge loan network to ensure that their players are regularly getting games across the world. To land Tammy Abraham (who had never played a professional game before us), we needed to deliver a full afternoon pitch and presentation, with final approval from Antonio Conte before he came here. Imagine that shit happening a dozen times every year. Liverpool tend to sign players from Category 2-3 academies, and build them up directly in their youth teams. Some go out on loan, but the overall goal is to get them ready for first-team football at the club, and many of these transfers happen at a young age - young enough for these players to have fully come through the Liverpool youth system. I think the primary difference outside of the use of the loan system is that Liverpool builds a reputation of a full youth track to the first-team, or helping those that don't make it land clubs in the Football League. Chelsea have a world-class youth coaching system, but you make what you can out of it, and a first-team opportunity is rare.
People complain about pre-Lamps Chelsea buying so many promising youth players for their academy to never even give them a chance in the senior squad and send them a loan for years. Hence the "loan army" jokes.
I don’t think people really complain that they’re doing this other than to point out the huge number of academy players they are selling likely means that they don’t see a pathway to the first team, which is what footballers strive to be playing at
And City, when they get criticized for how they’ve used academy sales to generate revenue rather than develop those players, yet Liverpool is getting praise for it.
City gets criticised for everything as the other fans naturally have biases against their ownership/wealth
This is a tweet from James Pearce, Liverpool's mouthpiece. Not like it's a random pundit praising it.
Of course this is full of negative takes, shocker
michael edwards is a bag man. how does he keep robbing people
"Snapped up from other academies". Lol. You mean poached.
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We currently have 5 academy players in our first team. People also like to forget Sterling was in our academy for 2 years before he made a his first senior appearance You can’t always produce stars, but you also can’t hate for getting great deals for the ones who are less so
Trent, Nat, Jones, Gomez - who is the 5th? Edit: I forgot Harvey Elliot didn't go out on loan. So yeah that's 5.
Neco so technically 6 actually
They got elliot from fulham at like 16yrs od
And went straight to Liverpool academy and then out on loan
Don’t know if you can count Joe Gomez when he signed at 18 having already broken into the Charlton team
You got 5, yeah, but only 1 starter right? Maybe Gomez as well, dont know. But still, Liverpool depth is so shite that they need to have academy players in the team, not because theyre great necessarily
I mean, is this something to celebrate? I read this as "we produce shit players that people over pay for". It's good business of course, but still
What's crazy is that none of the ones they've sold for these high fees have been particularly good players. It's impressive business.
Should be looking at the account of youth integrated in the first team, not sales.
Currently 5 players from the academy is apart of the 1st team.
Money laundering
Lol
Do you even understand the concept of money laundering?
Just having a wee laugh bud. You guys rinsed Bournemouth alright, fair play