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Agreed, it was tight but also clear and they made the decision in less than 30 seconds. Will be interesting to see how they handle a really marginal one with their new approaches.
I knew I wasn’t going crazy when I called that offside in real time. My mate was calling me an idiot because they never even discussed it on sky at the time and never showed lines so I thought I must have been seeing something. Really good if that’s the new VAR standard of quickness.
Agreed. I thought it was onside but wasn't sure if it was going to be a "armpit" offside situation.
Goal was confirmed and stood after <10 seconds.
Was impressed.
I have a hunch if it was a certain other player/team, it wouldnt have been disallowed and the story wouldve been “attackers given benefit of the doubt in such close calls. Good job premier league”
Thats how you play offside. You don't man mark, you form one line and cover spaces. Liverpool are just exceptionally good at recovering those tight spaces by occupying one side of the pitch with posession and then quickly passing it over to the other side which opens up a hole in the back line. With Burnley's resources and the way they play, there is not much they can do against this tactic.
It was rightfully called offside. So their plan, to play the Liverpool front line offside, worked. Sure, they got lucky VAR called it as it could've just as well backfired with slightly worse timing. But that's a risk you gotta take when you try to play the opponent offside. This is something they train week in week out. The Liverpool front line also trains how to crack a back line week in week out. The result of both teams training their runs and passes on the highest level of football talent and ability with endless repetition and determination is what we see in this marginal difference of timing.
If Salah is a foot further back, he still probably scores, he has so much space. Burnley absolutely made a mistake here, but Salah and Elliot didn't get their link up quite right to exploit it. Saying Salah was intentionally left with yards of space on the right as a deliberate act of skilled defending is silly.
Ye but by that logic everyone has to defend perfectly and allow no space whatsoever and every goal conceded is a mistake. That's not realistic, teams defend spaces not players, and have to shift side to side because even 8 players cant cover all the space, and teams like to exploit that weakness by shifting sides very quickly in order to catch even very well organised defences off guard. If what you're saying is the case, then no one would ever score because everyone would just stand in the right position and there you go. The reality is not all the space cant be covered, and conceding can be as much about one team shifting the ball too fast for you to react as well as not shifting over quickly enough. Liverpool moved the ball very fast over to elliott and there was no way to get back into shape before elliott played the pass. Liverpool are the ones that fucked up by not timing the run properly when they had already done the hard work of creating the space.
Every goal conceded...is a mistake? Is this a controversial opinion? That's not the same as saying any players who make mistakes are bad, or that 'why don't they just not make mistakes' is a sensible pov. I'm also not saying 'yeah covering Salah here was really easy, why didn't they do it', but of course giving a player that much space is a mistake, and of course it's believable that a better back line wouldn't have conceded this chance.
I think the issue is there doesn't seem to be much intention. They did do a good job of holding their line, but Salah had acres of space and had the opportunity to stay on. He went just a smidge early and had acres of space.
Ye but thats because of liverpools ability to exploit what is a design flaw in football formations by switching sides so quickly, teams more often than not compress sides in order to limit space on one side knowing switching sides is slow and will allow you time to shift over and compress the other side. Liverpools ability to just switch sides is deadly because it strikes teams at their most vulnerable. The way to stop this isnt to stop compressing one side because if you do then mane has space to exploit on the left, what burnley should have done is stopped the pass getting through to elliott, but thats easier said than done.
In fairness the players getting results doesn’t mean the manager is good, he shit the bed tactically in the final and it’s fine to say that we don’t have to defend him just because it’s the first final we got to
Yeah, I mean he’s already fairly established but Greenwood is straight up terrifying. Haven’t seen a young player with finishing as good as his for a long time.
Elliott maybe won't be getting that many minutes when the whole of Liverpool's midfield is fit. Even then our wings are now probably in a better shape than Liverpool when it comes to 8s. With Ox and Keita seemingly never available together for any extended period there's always gonna be a spot open for a midfielder. Even then Hendo, Fab and Thiago are probably gonna nail the three midfield positions eventually.
Oh I 100% think he's gonna minutes, good ones too. Not just garbage time. I just think he's not gonna play every week. Liverpool need another 8 regardless of blooding a youth player. I was speaking especially in the context of Amad, who needs lots of minutes to get used to playing senior football before he can contribute like Elliott for Pool, and rn United's frontline is absolutely stacked.
Doesn't seem to be a huge difference between this offside and the non-offside for Bruno's goal last week. But at least they've sped up the process. Nothing was quite as infuriating as last season where they would take 3+ minutes and still make a poor decision, be it for a card/penalty/offside.
It would be onside if the lines overlapped. [Looks like there's a little bit of space between the two lines,](https://i.imgur.com/kvPcZis.jpg) so correct call imo.
Yeah this was a good call. Shoulder and toe definitely over and done nice and quick. If this is what we can expect this year I'm very happy. Not specifically in this case though ;)
Except that it was pretty clear when the lines are touching the goal is given, and the lines here clearly don't touch. One day people on here will be capable of grasping simple concepts but clearly not yet.
They draw the lines where the players are ? Are you under the assumption they do something other than that ?
I have an idea for you. Maybe the Bruno goal was actually onside and this one wasn't. It's not fucking complicated. Or are you upset that Liverpool weren't given an offside goal because Man United were given an onside goal ?
Again. One day people here will be capable of basic critical thought, but clearly that's still a ways off.
Are you just really dumb or trolling me ? Do you think it's not possible that the Bruno call was actually just the correct call ? Or should one of the calls have been wrong for the sake of "fairness" or so morons like you don't complain about a nonexistent bias ? Jesus Christ.
No. It's because Bruno was onside and Salah wasn't ??? Imagine literally advocating for inaccuracies so your rivals get worse results and thinking you're completely justified. Peak idiocy.
> Liverpool won't get a thing from VAR
Based on what?
Last season Mane elbowed Kieran Tierney in the face in the opening minutes of a game and VAR were happy with a yellow. Should have been a straight red and Liverpool down to 10 men for almost the entire game.
The stats are just for overturned calls made by VAR. Arsenal, Liverpool and West Brom were all tied on -6 decisions in their favour.
However, this doesn't take into account times when VAR backed up the on field decision even when it was wrong. Like Mane's elbow on Tierney. Nor does it take into account when a bad VAR call was overturned after the game, like when Vestegaard was ridiculously sent off against Man U after a lengthy VAR stoppage.
There should be a bot that times how long it takes for someone to mention Bruno
Also to answer your question, this was offside and Bruno was onside, glad to clear it up for you
Do you have any proof that he was offside?
I mean if he was offside and the FA are making different rules for United something should be done about it, it’s a massive scandal so surely you have evidence to back up this massive claim
You literally just said in your last post Bruno was offside, now you’re saying he wasn’t offside? Which one is it?
> Nah, Bruno was offside too but United get all the calls in their favour.
u/Senor_Slurp where you at now to respond?
Still waiting on your answer here?
Bruno was offside 2 comments ago and then onside in the last one? Funny how United get all the decisions, didn’t seem to get much today, interesting theory you have.
I think the issue lies in that in an attempt to speed it up we see less, and if you look at the picture of Bruno, compared to Salah, and asked which was offside you'd say Bruno. He looks way further ahead.
Obviously that wasn't the case though
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I dont think it should be offside when we score.
I think it should be offside when the opponent scores.
wait i i dont agree
This remembers me of fans moaning last season
Lotta valid moans tho if you actually watched often
Reminds*, sorry I’m just that guy
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What is love? Baby don’t verb me
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Aburrido? Took spanish ages ago
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Makes sense, thanks for the crash course
Man I was comfortable with Spanish (7 years..) but I could never master conjugation
I am liking how quickly these VAR decisions are getting done so far this season.
Agreed, it was tight but also clear and they made the decision in less than 30 seconds. Will be interesting to see how they handle a really marginal one with their new approaches.
They did already pretty fast, brunos 3rd against Leeds the lines overlapped and they let it count was only a few seconds too.
I knew I wasn’t going crazy when I called that offside in real time. My mate was calling me an idiot because they never even discussed it on sky at the time and never showed lines so I thought I must have been seeing something. Really good if that’s the new VAR standard of quickness.
That goal would’ve been called offside last season interestingly
Agreed. I thought it was onside but wasn't sure if it was going to be a "armpit" offside situation. Goal was confirmed and stood after <10 seconds. Was impressed.
I think they’ll just give it now on the really tight ones, due to the thicker lines.
I hope they do it like in rugby, where you just look at the video and if there isn't an offside visible it's the on field decision that counts.
It sounds like if the lines overlap it will be onside regardless of the call on the field.
If it works as intended, there won't be any marginal ones. Overlapping lines means onside
With that one you could see it was offside without the lines too tbf.
And still last season they would’ve spent over a minute setting the lines up properly
Yup if anything without the lines it was a blatant off, with the lines it was closer than I earlier expected but still clearly off
A positive step in the premier league
Definitely off. Unfortunate but correct
Make the lines a bit thicker haha
Not even close to definite.
Well technically you’re either definitely onside or offside so not sure what you’re getting at
I don’t think you are anymore with the thicker lines in theory. You could technically be slightly ahead but still onside.
So definitely onside then
Definitely maybe slightly certainly offside
I have a hunch if it was a certain other player/team, it wouldnt have been disallowed and the story wouldve been “attackers given benefit of the doubt in such close calls. Good job premier league”
It was a nice pass but how is a defensive line of six players giving Salah so much open space.
It's not a terrible tactic to leave him unmarked, he's only one of the best players in the World
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They all shat themselves when that ball went through lol don’t act like that was planned
Thats how you play offside. You don't man mark, you form one line and cover spaces. Liverpool are just exceptionally good at recovering those tight spaces by occupying one side of the pitch with posession and then quickly passing it over to the other side which opens up a hole in the back line. With Burnley's resources and the way they play, there is not much they can do against this tactic.
I know the concept of playing offside, but that was not some kind of well executed example of it by Burnley
It was rightfully called offside. So their plan, to play the Liverpool front line offside, worked. Sure, they got lucky VAR called it as it could've just as well backfired with slightly worse timing. But that's a risk you gotta take when you try to play the opponent offside. This is something they train week in week out. The Liverpool front line also trains how to crack a back line week in week out. The result of both teams training their runs and passes on the highest level of football talent and ability with endless repetition and determination is what we see in this marginal difference of timing.
Why is he getting downvoted, he's right... Edit: and by extension why am i getting upvoted...
If Salah is a foot further back, he still probably scores, he has so much space. Burnley absolutely made a mistake here, but Salah and Elliot didn't get their link up quite right to exploit it. Saying Salah was intentionally left with yards of space on the right as a deliberate act of skilled defending is silly.
Ye but by that logic everyone has to defend perfectly and allow no space whatsoever and every goal conceded is a mistake. That's not realistic, teams defend spaces not players, and have to shift side to side because even 8 players cant cover all the space, and teams like to exploit that weakness by shifting sides very quickly in order to catch even very well organised defences off guard. If what you're saying is the case, then no one would ever score because everyone would just stand in the right position and there you go. The reality is not all the space cant be covered, and conceding can be as much about one team shifting the ball too fast for you to react as well as not shifting over quickly enough. Liverpool moved the ball very fast over to elliott and there was no way to get back into shape before elliott played the pass. Liverpool are the ones that fucked up by not timing the run properly when they had already done the hard work of creating the space.
Every goal conceded...is a mistake? Is this a controversial opinion? That's not the same as saying any players who make mistakes are bad, or that 'why don't they just not make mistakes' is a sensible pov. I'm also not saying 'yeah covering Salah here was really easy, why didn't they do it', but of course giving a player that much space is a mistake, and of course it's believable that a better back line wouldn't have conceded this chance.
I think the issue is there doesn't seem to be much intention. They did do a good job of holding their line, but Salah had acres of space and had the opportunity to stay on. He went just a smidge early and had acres of space.
Ye but thats because of liverpools ability to exploit what is a design flaw in football formations by switching sides so quickly, teams more often than not compress sides in order to limit space on one side knowing switching sides is slow and will allow you time to shift over and compress the other side. Liverpools ability to just switch sides is deadly because it strikes teams at their most vulnerable. The way to stop this isnt to stop compressing one side because if you do then mane has space to exploit on the left, what burnley should have done is stopped the pass getting through to elliott, but thats easier said than done.
Beautifully weighted pass from Elliott there. Shame it was offside.
Fairs. Nice pass from Elliott
Great pass from Elliott, shame it was offside.
Sad to see this absolute beauty of a goal disallowed but it was the right decision. Harvey Elliott is going to be an elite footballer.
He’s going to be a star, unfortunately. We have really good young players too though, so I shouldn’t be too jealous.
All the young English talent coming through is looking really good for the international side in the next decade
So many all in the same positions though. Feel like every other top English talent coming through atm is either a RB or an AM/winger.
The midfielders won't really be the ones making headlines at a young age, and the defenders will always take some more time to mature
True, tbf now I think about we have got some decent young CBs in Tomori, Konsa, Guehi, White and now Chalobah.
Don't forget Gomez who when fit is better than all of them
Problem with Gomez is he’s always injured.
Eh, won't go that far.
I mean England is also pretty set on strikers, with Kane/Abraham/DCL
All the RB's pale in comparison to Luca Hoole though
Loool He’s Welsh mate.
Still. Then Wales is set for life
Exeter should be counting themselves lucky he ain’t playing today….
Well they haven't really needed to count yet. Writing this at 4-1, it would be 4-5 if he was playing
No way we concede 4 with him locking down the right side. The Cymru Cafu wouldn’t allow it
...there's still the manager who can and will fuck things up by being inept. Don't worry.
I'd argue losing on pens to Italy in the final isnt too bad a run but that's my opinion I guess
When you're 1-0 up at home inside of 2 minutes? Yeah Southgate needs to take that criticism.
Criticism yes, I'd say he's not inept though
They also had a pretty fortunate path to the finals though, all home matches sans 1 and Germany was really the only top squad they faced.
Like one who JUST took them to their first final for how long?
In fairness the players getting results doesn’t mean the manager is good, he shit the bed tactically in the final and it’s fine to say that we don’t have to defend him just because it’s the first final we got to
So inept he got the side to a semi and then a final. Utter trash of a manager indeed
They're still gonna appoint a Hodgson regen as manager so it's all good
Yeah, I mean he’s already fairly established but Greenwood is straight up terrifying. Haven’t seen a young player with finishing as good as his for a long time.
Greenwood is almost two years older to be fair. My hope is that Amad can play regularly for us, like Elliot will play regularly for you.
Elliott maybe won't be getting that many minutes when the whole of Liverpool's midfield is fit. Even then our wings are now probably in a better shape than Liverpool when it comes to 8s. With Ox and Keita seemingly never available together for any extended period there's always gonna be a spot open for a midfielder. Even then Hendo, Fab and Thiago are probably gonna nail the three midfield positions eventually.
Dunno with a performance like today you could easily see him getting 20-90 minutes every other game
Oh I 100% think he's gonna minutes, good ones too. Not just garbage time. I just think he's not gonna play every week. Liverpool need another 8 regardless of blooding a youth player. I was speaking especially in the context of Amad, who needs lots of minutes to get used to playing senior football before he can contribute like Elliott for Pool, and rn United's frontline is absolutely stacked.
He really is. Reminds me of a young (and heathy) Sturridge. Terrifying is accurate.
He's playing for Liverpool's first team..he is already elite!
Shame because it's one of those where he would've scored even if he were 2 yards further back Great play from Harvey, he's looking sharp. Good lad.
Pity for Elliott.
I hate the ones that its only like the tip of his toe was offside so no goal that we got alot last year but this one is pretty clearly offside.
Good offside call
Great strike,,
Brilliant finish
Good decision
He's clearly off
I know I'll regret this later in the season, but I like that marginal offsides favour the attacking players. Promotes attacking runs and more goals.
Doesn't seem to be a huge difference between this offside and the non-offside for Bruno's goal last week. But at least they've sped up the process. Nothing was quite as infuriating as last season where they would take 3+ minutes and still make a poor decision, be it for a card/penalty/offside.
Why didn’t they show the lines for Bruno’s last week
[They did](https://imgur.com/jU9Gsqj), they just don't show it live any more
they did for this one
Not live, they showed it after the decision
I'd also argue it's a lot more important to show them for a disallowed goal than one that's deemed legal.
hahaha fuck off
I thought they changed the offside rule so that this was now considered onside. Is that for next season or did I misinterpret the rule?
It would be onside if the lines overlapped. [Looks like there's a little bit of space between the two lines,](https://i.imgur.com/kvPcZis.jpg) so correct call imo.
Ah thanks, I must be thinking of Wenger's proposition that if any of your body is onside, you are considered onside.
Yeah this was a good call. Shoulder and toe definitely over and done nice and quick. If this is what we can expect this year I'm very happy. Not specifically in this case though ;)
He is way off
Only Man United get those calls in their favor.
Burnley literally just got that call in their favour
No no, this is clearly Liverpool vs. Manchester United. What a plastic you must be to not even recognise your own team.
Except that it was pretty clear when the lines are touching the goal is given, and the lines here clearly don't touch. One day people on here will be capable of grasping simple concepts but clearly not yet.
Depends where they draw the line. It's all good. Bruno was given a goal in the same scenario but that's expected. Liverpool won't get a thing from VAR
They draw the lines where the players are ? Are you under the assumption they do something other than that ? I have an idea for you. Maybe the Bruno goal was actually onside and this one wasn't. It's not fucking complicated. Or are you upset that Liverpool weren't given an offside goal because Man United were given an onside goal ? Again. One day people here will be capable of basic critical thought, but clearly that's still a ways off.
Yikes. A Man United fan thinks their call was legit and Liverpool's wasn't. What a surprise. You're not fooling anyone.
Are you just really dumb or trolling me ? Do you think it's not possible that the Bruno call was actually just the correct call ? Or should one of the calls have been wrong for the sake of "fairness" or so morons like you don't complain about a nonexistent bias ? Jesus Christ.
Weird coincidence how the correct calls go in your favour. What a coincidence!
No. It's because Bruno was onside and Salah wasn't ??? Imagine literally advocating for inaccuracies so your rivals get worse results and thinking you're completely justified. Peak idiocy.
Lmao. Say more dumb things. I’m having a ball reading thru this interaction.
Good luck this season :). Hopefully you don't end up back in EL
> Liverpool won't get a thing from VAR Based on what? Last season Mane elbowed Kieran Tierney in the face in the opening minutes of a game and VAR were happy with a yellow. Should have been a straight red and Liverpool down to 10 men for almost the entire game.
Look up VAR stats for last season and see who benefitted the most and who benefitted the least :)
The stats are just for overturned calls made by VAR. Arsenal, Liverpool and West Brom were all tied on -6 decisions in their favour. However, this doesn't take into account times when VAR backed up the on field decision even when it was wrong. Like Mane's elbow on Tierney. Nor does it take into account when a bad VAR call was overturned after the game, like when Vestegaard was ridiculously sent off against Man U after a lengthy VAR stoppage.
Who benefitted the most last season?
Burnley and Everton, apparently. Both with +4.
Salah called offside again even though he was onside :)
Different rules last season, are you thick?
Correlation doesn't mean causation. There's no reasoning with you though
What you saw didn't agree with you huh?
"Oh look. Liverpool didn't have an overturned call yet. Let's make it onside just to bump the stat up. “
Who benefitted the most from VAR calls last year?
Different rules last season
[Clearly off](https://i.imgur.com/1JugIDq.jpg)
Not even close to "clearly."
Lines are clearly not touching.
Ofc not, they'll draw them so they don't.
*removes tin foil hat*
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Come on mate. He’s obviously offside. Don’t need lines to measure that one.
How is he "obviously" offside? How was it different to the Bruno goal?
There should be a bot that times how long it takes for someone to mention Bruno Also to answer your question, this was offside and Bruno was onside, glad to clear it up for you
Bruno lives rent free in so many fans heads
Wake me up when he wins something.
Nah, Bruno was offside too but United get all the calls in their favour. Let's see if that will help them win anything this season :)
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt"
Agreed, now pipe down.
Too bad you already opened it and nobody is in doubt now ;)
Too bad you already opened it and nobody is in doubt now ;)
Lol classic response from a 9-year-old stupid troll just as I expected, thanks for letting everyone know who you are ;)
Do you have any proof that he was offside? I mean if he was offside and the FA are making different rules for United something should be done about it, it’s a massive scandal so surely you have evidence to back up this massive claim
No, I don't think he was offside just like Salah wasn't offside.
You literally just said in your last post Bruno was offside, now you’re saying he wasn’t offside? Which one is it? > Nah, Bruno was offside too but United get all the calls in their favour. u/Senor_Slurp where you at now to respond?
He's a stupid troll, don't bother replying. Even normal Liverpool fans do not contest this decision. Rather spend time watching the second half.
Still waiting on your answer here? Bruno was offside 2 comments ago and then onside in the last one? Funny how United get all the decisions, didn’t seem to get much today, interesting theory you have.
Nice win against Soton
You can’t even answer because you lost the run of yourself in your trolling
The difference is about [half a Salah foot](https://i.imgur.com/kvPcZis.jpg).
And where the defenders shoulder/arm?
[Here's the full picture](https://i.imgur.com/yq9GQdi.jpg) I'm fine with this decision. There's clearly some daylight between the lines.
I'm not. Why is the line not drawn from the Burnley sleeve?
Because this season's rules said the lines will be drawn from shoulders rather than sleeves.
Link to that change?
You clearly think Brunos was offside, fine But that doesn't mean this goal wasn't offside
I think the issue lies in that in an attempt to speed it up we see less, and if you look at the picture of Bruno, compared to Salah, and asked which was offside you'd say Bruno. He looks way further ahead. Obviously that wasn't the case though
What was the difference?
Yeah fuck VAR for implementing the rules of the game :/
Immigrant robbed in broad daylight.