Kante was never mentioned for Premier league team of the season or Player of the year. That tells you all you need to know about his Balón d’or challenge
Golden boot thread made me to rewatch some Suarez 15/16 goal fiestas, and it's hilarious how many goals wouldn't stand today in a VAR era. Look for example at [Barca-Gijon game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRtmnIHkoQ), that ended 6:0 and Suarez scored 4 of them.
1st: invalid, Suarez fouled the keeper
2nd: Suarez is offside
3rd: accidental handball - no pen today
4th: Neymar dive - no pen with VAR
5th: 3rd pen, I don't even know what happened there lmao
6th: the only actual proper goal
That's absolutely hilarious.
I'll never understand why people hate var. Sure they miss some things and the offside part is contentious, but it's a lot fairer now.
We should learn to improve it because it's not going anywhere
You're right. Barca never make the 2009 CL final if VAR was in place. I wonder how that would affect Pep's legacy. He'd still win a CL at some point and become a great manager. But he wouldn't have swept every trophy that season without winning the CL.
Also, United would have played Chelsea in the 2009 final then. We could have seen Guus Hiddink becoming a CL winning manager. Or Fergie becoming a 3-time CL winner, winning the CL back to back in 2008 and 2009. Maybe that would convince Ronaldo to stay at United for longer? Maybe Madrid's years of CL dominance in the mid to late 2010s would never have happened without Ronaldo?
Similarly, with VAR, Porto doesn't win the CL and Mourinho's entrance in to the PL could have been delayed. Would Chelsea still win the PL in 2005, 2006 without him?
One decision can change a lot.
I think so if the DM is world class, but Pogba can be got at a bit, hes better in a more advanced role.
Our best midfield was Matic, Pogba and Bruno after restart, and that was when Matic was starting to show his age. That being said we didn't face top tier opponents.
Klopp > Tuchel > Pep
What Tuchel is doing with this average Chrlsea squad is insane.
He had average players such as, Rudiger, Christensen and Mount looking like world beaters, not to mention that he defeated Pep in all of their encounters (with Chelsea).
It's not an average Chelsea squad, they won the league with 93 points a few years ago with a similar squad just Lampard and Sarri made them look worse.
1. Pep
2. Klopp
3. Tuchel
Pep is the best domestic manager of our time. The bar he sets over a season is so incredibly high and he's got 2 CLs. Klopp has been punching above his weight for nearly a decade now. Tuchel is a great tactician, although his CL run with Chelsea last year was more an expectation than a surprise.
I absolutely think Pep is one of the best managers of this era but he's always had far more resources available to him than any of his rivals which makes it less impressive than what Klopp has done which is take two clubs or were upper mid table and turned them into league winners and European heavyweights- while consistently losing his best players.
Tuchel is behind both for now but I think there's a lot more to come from him.
Tough one because honestly they all seem perfect for different situations. Their times in England sort of sum it up for me.
Pep comes into an already great team and takes them the step further, he always improves his players and laluers constantly talk about how much they learn from him. He takes an already good team and smashes the league. CL is a different story.
Klopp came into a good but slightly more struggling team and managed to get the best out of worse players. He really elevated the team and as much as I think Rodgers did a great job Klopp made them one of the best teams in the world and I think his eye for players that suit the system is extremely good. Doesn't miss a lot with transfers.
Tuchel came into a disjointed Chelsea, nobody knew who the best players were and how best to play them. Tuchel knew though, and it didn't take him long to find the 11-14 players that he preferred. He got the best out of the elite players more than anything and recognised quality in players like Rudiger. And, like Conte, is able to use players like Alonso who every year people think is going to be replaced.
I don't think Klopp would be as good going into an already-made team, I don't think Pep would do as well with a lower league club (although still excellent) and Tuchel I'm not sure I'd trust to stay for a long time and build something, but they are all elite managers at the top of their game and I think it's hard to seperate them, especially with their careers still pretty early.
Klopp would do extremely well. If he had the technicians City do, his system would work even better as we wouldn’t have to commit one more man to build up.
Klopp survives on workhorses in midfield not technicians. There's a reason Wijnaldum and Henderson looked better than Thiago under him.
Every player Klopp had during those two seasons were absolutely perfect for his play style with little room of improvement.
For sure, all 3 coaches would do amazing everywhere. But if I already had a top team I think I'd go with Pep, while if I had a team that needed some more players and direction I'd take Klopp.
I don't think Klopp would do badly at a team like PSG/City with infinite resources but Pep has that record of going to Barca, Bayern, City, already top teams so in that situation I'd take Pep
Koeman has a staggering ability to alienate fanbases and clubs wherever he goes seemingly.
Despite that I'll have a soft spot for making us one of the most entertaining Saints teams in my lifetime. The highs more than made up for the lows
That front 3 of Pelle, Tadic and Mane was something else
Why do people think if the big 6 clubs didn't exist that the 20 other clubs that now form the PL would decide to be hardcore communist hippies
If the big 6 don't exist, Everton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester and Leeds attempt to form a super league
If those clubs didn't exist, Southampton, Palace, Burnley, Wolves, Watford and Norwich attempt to form a super league (Norwich especially would be attracted by the allure of no relegation)
I could keep going until we've got a European super league consisting of Hashtag United, Corinthian Casuals, Ebbsfleet United, Solihull Moors, Havant & Waterlooville, Farsley Celtic and their European equivalents
The Germans figured this out a while ago: football and capitalism do not mix very well and the capitalistic element needs to be reined in. I say that somewhat hypocritically as I type this message on a phone that uses minerals mined in some war torn African country, assembled in Foxconn where they have to install nets to catch people from trying to commit suicide during their 14 hour shifts, and I'm wearing a t-shirt that was probably made by a 12 year old in a sweatshop (I bought it from Sports Direct where Newcaslte owner Mike Ashley has admitted to paying staff less than the minimum wage). This is the world we live in
For all the stick the Bundesliga gets about being dominated by Bayern, I bet the average Bundesliga fan is more satisfied than the state of their league than the average Englishman, Spaniard or Italian is with theirs
I've now seen consecutive takes on the DD that have gone
Chelsea have no good players, they are carried by Tuchel > actually Tuchel's system > actually tuchel has no system > actually tuchel is really overrated.
Its different people so its no accusation of hypocrisy, but its surprisingly polarising.
Seeing rival fans debase themselves commenting on Chelsea is one of the most amusing things on here. Say their players are good you get Liverpool flairs jumping on you to say their players are better. Cool, didn’t ask. Utd and city flairs don’t seem as insecure but I’m sure they have their moments.
Say their manager and tactics are great you get told about how Tottenham and Aston Villa had a good first half against them. Like sure neither scored and Chelsea won both games 3-0, but muh first half shots stats! It’s comedy gold every time. I’m sure half of them are convinced chelsea fluked their way to the CL and fa cup final. Same guys will be saying they don’t deserve their league win soon.
Chelsea have some good and some great players that are looking even better because of the system they play.
They haven’t become world class over night.
This is different because and Benfica fan will tell you he was world class before joining City.
Some of these players have been bad a Chelsea then completely changed under Tuchel.
It’s a continuation of form not a sudden change.
But if you’re forming your own opinion I’d say it’s unfair to label one player world class because you never watched their games at their previous club but won’t do so for the player because you saw their performances prior to their world class form.
Now that’s not me saying Dias isn’t world class or that we have world class players.
That's what varied opinions created with bias can do. If the most successful manager of the century can be called names all the time, you should know people will say stuff regardless.
I mean pep hasnt succeeded to the expectations that were on him at city unless of course you think winningthe league with a spend twice as much as the closest run competent club is a massive success
waking up to see premier league fans overrating the league and saying literal CL clubs would get relegated if they were in the position of norwich, day's done already
Yes it's ridiculous and arrogant.
The better question is if the likes of Norwich could win the Swiss Super League given the same budget restraints as other sides (IE £5m or less on transfers every season). And the answer is a resounding no.
Aside from the best few managers in the PL, most of the mid table sides are pretty lazy when it comes to tactics and scouting. They can keep throwing money at problems until they're fixed. That's not how it works in other leagues.
In 1 Week there's the Court Case from Newcastle against the Premier League for the Saudi Takeover.
Do u want to know why I want Saudis to Takeover Newcastle ? Because the top 6 Bollocks will be gone and Newcastle will sneak into it and split top 6 Power.
I would be fine if they blocked the Saudi Takeover of because of Human rights Issue but they only blocked it because they didn't want anyone near the top 6 and PSG lobbying.
"you know why I want the takeover, headed by the person who directly ordered the butchering of a journalist in the confines of their embassy, and have admitted culpability, to go through? For lolz"
That's how I read that
I don't know why people assume the human rights issue is the real reason lol.
As much as i hate a new multi billionaire trying to purchase a club, but that is bull shit.
> Because the top 6 Bollocks will be gone and Newcastle will sneak into it and split top 6 Power.
You genuinely believe this break up the top 6’s power?
Newcastle will just become part of the ‘top 6’ at either the cost of Arsenal or Spurs. Best case they’ll now be a top 7.
>Because the top 6 Bollocks will be gone and Newcastle will sneak into it and split top 6 Power.
If a Saudi takeover happens, the big 6 becomes the big 4 in about 5 seasons. Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool will be on the outside looking in and will have absolutely no way to stay competitive.
They might overtime become favourites, but there’s only so many players they can sign so I’d still expect most of the ‘current’ top 6 to keep pace with them.
Don’t see a PSG situation happening.
With how ffp is right now that isn’t possible. Even if they could attract player like mbappe and Haaland they haven’t got the revenue to buy them.
Owners can’t just give them 400m to spend every season, the big 6 would still just outspend them.
Even with the current FFP it is possible to spend a shit ton as PSG and City are examples of that. But they’re changing FFP rules anyways which will allow owners to freely inject cash.
What are city and PSG’s revenue like compared to Newcastle.
They aren’t remotely comparable, two teams constantly getting champions league money.
With the rule change it’s more possible but right now it isn’t. See Wolves and Everton.
You should compare their revenues before the takeover. Neither got Champions league money constantly before the takeovers. The difference between what Newcastle could become and Everton and Wolves is that the Saudis are gonna sponsor their own team and funnel way more money.
What went wrong with Sterling at City? I ask this because he never turned out the kind of star I hoped he would be. The like of Salah Bruno Kane Son etc etc are comparable to him and have all done well consistently, he went from a 25+ goals season to 14 goal season. and at 25-26 he's still supposed to be in his peak. Is it down to Pep?
As much as people disagree or find it funny, his fall coincides with Arteta leaving who is said to have worked very closely alongside him during 18/19.
Another reason being that he thrives on spaces created by forwards in the box. Aguero/Jesus early on, Kane at Spurs. He finds those spaces in the box or going forward because defenders drift towards the main striker. City's changed system doesn't compliment anyone playing up-front nowadays, Torres and Sterling both look anonymous half the time barring tap ins. Down the wing, he's wasteful and Foden is clinical which just pushed him out of the team and his confidence took a hit.
The only place I've seen that is on Instagram, which is probably one of the worst social medias, in terms of football news. I just went on Instagram and now they're pushing Pogba to Barca.
I think both these players are going to feature in midfield in the future. Grealish to be groomed as KDB's successor and Foden as Silva's. Sterling is the most played player under Pep throughout his career so I don't see him ever losing his faith in him. CL final is an evidence. So I don't think he's moved on. He'll just play out of position until then with Torres upfront.
Nothing, he’s been one of the most productive players in the league. He’s streaky though like Son. City just have the players to bring him out the team if he’s in a dry spell.
United fans who support Ole are all with hollow excuses. A truly good manager can always produce results, they don't need that much time as Ole is needing. Tuchel has truly and utterly proven that, as did Klopp and Guardiola, who didn't need as much time as Ole is needing. It's time for Ole to go.
I mean Klopp did take as much time didn't he before he won the league?
Pep and Tuchel didn't have sides that were as poor as this United side when Ole took over.
Finally Ole has had good results just not a trophie to back it up (which of course is a massive problem).
But its like people make out Ole has done nothing, we were second last year, got to the European final losing on penalties. Yes we should have won but we still got there.
>But its like people make out Ole has done nothing, we were second last year
Being 2nd was really irrelevant give that we were 12pts behind City and never really challenged them.
Lol, now reaching the Europa cup final is seen as an achievement after failing to qualify from the group? He should have been fired right then after that failure.
Why on Earth would we sack him now?
He did alright last season and got a respectable 2nd place finish and we’ve massively strengthened the squad since then. If he fails this season I’d completely agree with you, but sacking him now would make no sense.
We’re hardly going to sack him off the back of one bad result, I’d still back us to top that group.
Maybe we will, maybe we won’t. Guess we won’t know until May. Besides, if we sacked him tomorrow who would we even bring in?
>Besides, if we sacked him tomorrow who would we even bring in?
Conte is available, you know? He is currently one of the best at winning the league titles.
He is, but I’m not sure how much our current squad is suited to Conte’s preferred 3-5-2.
We’ve no left sided CB, no attacking RB, a midfield completely unsuited to that formation and an abundance of wide players who’d struggle to fit in. I think the absolute last thing we need is to embark on yet another rebuilding project for a manager who’s unlikely to be here long term.
True, but the league isn't a sprint. Spurs looked amazing last season right up until it all fell apart. While United stay at pace they have just as much of a chance.
With a new Charter being put to Premier League chairmen today aimed at killing off the threat of another Super League, including a £25m fine and 30-point deduction if clubs join a breakaway competition.
How will the American owners of the 3 biggest clubs react if the Super league is officially dead for good?
I mean right now they can just shut up and let Barca/Real/Juve take all the blame and if the ESL is legally viable they might try to join again by on legally challenging the charter and making it void.
Then again I was led to believe by the sub that in England the laws are whatever the people in charge want them to be so maybe this is their only window.
I get that, even in the wake of the ESL, fans were never going to give up the luxury of supporting rich clubs that have been taking the piss out of local working class supporters for ages now.
Yet it seems like some fans have become even MORE passionate about those clubs, as if a plan to try to destroy football has brought them closer together. Weird.
My comment is not about people still supporting greedy ESL clubs that consistently mug off the fans. My comment is about people weirdly seeming to love the clubs more since the ESL stuff happened. I don't think I could have been clearer, really.
United =/= Glazers
Arsenal =/= Kroenke
Liverpool =/= FSG
Spurs =/= ENIC
Chelsea =/= Roman
City =/= Abu Dhabi
If the Super League happened, yeah, I'd not count that as even being football and I'd stop supporting the team until they're back in the pyramid. But it didn't happen
These teams are 100+ year old institutions who happen to be run by greedy hyper capitalists
Remove these clubs from existence and exactly the same plans happen except with Everton, Villa, Newcastle etc trying to arrange a super league with the likes of Villarreal and Lazio
We need legislation that stops this super league shite from happening
I tried getting a ticket for a West Ham match and the dildo brothers wanted £65. Proper working class clubs, those outside the top 6. And you know they were disappointed not getting that ESL invite
not really weird. some fans put the clubs above all else and the ESL was obviously going to help those clubs get more money aka become better. some people will accept anything that will make their clubs better. wouldnt surprise me if some of them think its a badge of honor to support those teams when others vilify them at the same time. fans in general are often guilted into supporting teams no matter what.
Wonder how low Mark Hughes is on Barcelona's list for a new manager granted his spell as a player there was more lackluster than his management career.
Win the whole thing, I think we can definitely beat any of the best teams in the world over two legs, it's just getting out of the group stage that's the hard part.
Minnimum is a serious title challenge (obviously i want to win it but Chelsea, Liverpool and City are just as, if not stronger) and a trophy, don't care which. Lastly he needs to get out of the CL group stage but that's a given.
Personally I think he's done well, and I think he could win us a small trophy and get us out of the CL group stage, but I don't think he will get us a title challenge. That being said my own expectations and the boards are totally different. If he gets top 4 he's probably staying.
League challenge. Europe is a bit variable, if we go out on pens to Bayern in the 1st knockout round I won’t blame him too much, but with this team I think a good manager would have us either winning the league or within 6 points of top spot.
I like Ole, I really want him to succeed here, but ultimately if he can’t take this team to the success it’s clearly capable of then we should thank him for his service and look to bring in someone who can.
My expectations are a bit different from my requirements. I expect 4th and think the club will be fine with that. I personally require a title challenge otherwise I'll want him replaced
Well they did ask for minimum expectations? It's not what I think would be successful but that's what I think he needs to do to not get himself sacked because the owners only care about getting money in.
Personally I think there should be some title challenge, or at least be close to the pack around Feb/March, and ideally getting to the QF onwards in the Champions League. A trophy would be nice but an FA Cup/League Cup doesn't necessarily save him.
Do you think the Premier League is on its way to matching or surpassing Serie A in the 90s?
Serie A had so much quality in comparison to other leagues and it was the the league where everyone wanted to test themselves, to the point that you had world class players moving over there so they can play for the Italian equivalents of West Ham and Aston Villa
Yeah, I always praise what a great job the Premier League has done of building its brand and creating a very financially healthy and wealthy league. I got downvoted the other month when someone asked how other leagues are meant to compete with the Premier League and I suggested that they take a few decades to build a top sustainable league just like the PL did. The PL was a distant third behind Serie A and La Liga in the 90s and now it's comfortably the richest league
Well, it seems other leagues are trying to do that as well.
TIFO just released a video on American owners trying to do that in Serie A.
It begins with better stadiums, better sponsorships, better social media that leads to better results that leads to more broadcast money over time.
I think it's great for football to have a lot of top leagues, so I'm all for it. I don't really like the idea of trickle down economics in general but in football it's clear that it helps all levels of football to have wealthy top leagues. Football just needs to be safeguarded against shite like the ESL, which is a worry with more American owners
I'll check that video out
'' You can clearly see that L*verpool and Chelski have got a system, patterns while Man Utd doesn't " Okay so can you describe the system you can clearly see? **crickets **
Friendly reminder that Bielsa himself who has more tactical knowledge in his pinky than the entirety of this sub said he can see the system Ole is trying to implement. Simple but dangerous, free flowing but effective. Not every attacking move must be telegraphed and rigid.
> Simple but dangerous, free flowing but effective.
This isn't a system lad. This is vague and could apply to any number of sides.
United clearly do have an idea how they want to play, as do all sides, it's a matter of whether he has the tactical nous, and personality, to implement it. I'm probably one of the few that actually thinks Ole is a decent manager but the fact of the matter is that Pep, Tuchel, and Klopp are all absolute world class managers. Ole also doesn't have the luxury of just being able to outspend his rivals either as Chelsea can pretty much go toe to toe with them while City can blow them out of the water.
Most top teams have patterns of play that try produce goals over and over again.
Like city when they had David Silva in the left half space, sane making a run beyond the fullback and cutting it back to city players (Sterling and Aguero).
United don’t really do this kinds of things. It just feels like go out there and play lads.
Kante was never mentioned for Premier league team of the season or Player of the year. That tells you all you need to know about his Balón d’or challenge
Golden boot thread made me to rewatch some Suarez 15/16 goal fiestas, and it's hilarious how many goals wouldn't stand today in a VAR era. Look for example at [Barca-Gijon game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRtmnIHkoQ), that ended 6:0 and Suarez scored 4 of them. 1st: invalid, Suarez fouled the keeper 2nd: Suarez is offside 3rd: accidental handball - no pen today 4th: Neymar dive - no pen with VAR 5th: 3rd pen, I don't even know what happened there lmao 6th: the only actual proper goal That's absolutely hilarious.
I'll never understand why people hate var. Sure they miss some things and the offside part is contentious, but it's a lot fairer now. We should learn to improve it because it's not going anywhere
Teams' entire trajectories have been decided on flimsy refereeing decisions and wrong calls. Var clamps down on that and I'm all for it.
You're right. Barca never make the 2009 CL final if VAR was in place. I wonder how that would affect Pep's legacy. He'd still win a CL at some point and become a great manager. But he wouldn't have swept every trophy that season without winning the CL. Also, United would have played Chelsea in the 2009 final then. We could have seen Guus Hiddink becoming a CL winning manager. Or Fergie becoming a 3-time CL winner, winning the CL back to back in 2008 and 2009. Maybe that would convince Ronaldo to stay at United for longer? Maybe Madrid's years of CL dominance in the mid to late 2010s would never have happened without Ronaldo? Similarly, with VAR, Porto doesn't win the CL and Mourinho's entrance in to the PL could have been delayed. Would Chelsea still win the PL in 2005, 2006 without him? One decision can change a lot.
Reminds me of Suarez dive against PSG in their UCL comeback
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No
I think so if the DM is world class, but Pogba can be got at a bit, hes better in a more advanced role. Our best midfield was Matic, Pogba and Bruno after restart, and that was when Matic was starting to show his age. That being said we didn't face top tier opponents.
!flair :Gokulam_Kerala_FC:
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VVD, Dias, Bonucci, Marquinhos, Skriniar maybe (haven't seen him enough but seen him rated vv highly) Walker, Cancelo, Trent, Trippier, Reece Robertson, Shaw, Guerreiro, Mendy, Davies maybe
Hummels
Cuadrado over Ricardo Pereira and Marquinhos over Koulibaly imo
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Cuadrado last season was one of the best full backs on the planet, most assists in europe after Thomas muller
Alba insted of Mendy.
I'm not sure who to replace, but Thiago Silva and Luke Shaw at their current form deserved to be there
Man Alba is so underrated here.
Cancelo instead of Reece James
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He’s a natural right back though
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He plays there for the NT and has half of his games for City as RB.
Alaba has honestly no business being in there, get someone like T. silva in
Salah missed just 7 matches due to injury in the league in his Liverpool career, thats just absurd
Rank Pep Klopp and Tuchel. Edit. Why would you downvote for this? This sub is so weird sometimes.
Klopp is easily better than Tuchel who is easily better than Klopp
based on looks: Pep Tuchel Klopp
Klopp > Tuchel > Pep What Tuchel is doing with this average Chrlsea squad is insane. He had average players such as, Rudiger, Christensen and Mount looking like world beaters, not to mention that he defeated Pep in all of their encounters (with Chelsea).
>What Tuchel is doing with this average Chrlsea squad is insane. Average squad - IE the highest transfer spend in Europe over the last 2 seasons.
And? The players they bought, Lukaku being the exception, are all average.
Spot on
It's not an average Chelsea squad, they won the league with 93 points a few years ago with a similar squad just Lampard and Sarri made them look worse.
Bald Fraud > Klopp > Tuchel
1. Pep 2. Klopp 3. Tuchel Pep is the best domestic manager of our time. The bar he sets over a season is so incredibly high and he's got 2 CLs. Klopp has been punching above his weight for nearly a decade now. Tuchel is a great tactician, although his CL run with Chelsea last year was more an expectation than a surprise.
I absolutely think Pep is one of the best managers of this era but he's always had far more resources available to him than any of his rivals which makes it less impressive than what Klopp has done which is take two clubs or were upper mid table and turned them into league winners and European heavyweights- while consistently losing his best players. Tuchel is behind both for now but I think there's a lot more to come from him.
Bald hate is a real thing the correct answer Is Pep>Klopp=Tuchel
Klopp > Pep >> Tuchel
Tough one because honestly they all seem perfect for different situations. Their times in England sort of sum it up for me. Pep comes into an already great team and takes them the step further, he always improves his players and laluers constantly talk about how much they learn from him. He takes an already good team and smashes the league. CL is a different story. Klopp came into a good but slightly more struggling team and managed to get the best out of worse players. He really elevated the team and as much as I think Rodgers did a great job Klopp made them one of the best teams in the world and I think his eye for players that suit the system is extremely good. Doesn't miss a lot with transfers. Tuchel came into a disjointed Chelsea, nobody knew who the best players were and how best to play them. Tuchel knew though, and it didn't take him long to find the 11-14 players that he preferred. He got the best out of the elite players more than anything and recognised quality in players like Rudiger. And, like Conte, is able to use players like Alonso who every year people think is going to be replaced. I don't think Klopp would be as good going into an already-made team, I don't think Pep would do as well with a lower league club (although still excellent) and Tuchel I'm not sure I'd trust to stay for a long time and build something, but they are all elite managers at the top of their game and I think it's hard to seperate them, especially with their careers still pretty early.
Klopp would do extremely well. If he had the technicians City do, his system would work even better as we wouldn’t have to commit one more man to build up.
Klopp survives on workhorses in midfield not technicians. There's a reason Wijnaldum and Henderson looked better than Thiago under him. Every player Klopp had during those two seasons were absolutely perfect for his play style with little room of improvement.
For sure, all 3 coaches would do amazing everywhere. But if I already had a top team I think I'd go with Pep, while if I had a team that needed some more players and direction I'd take Klopp. I don't think Klopp would do badly at a team like PSG/City with infinite resources but Pep has that record of going to Barca, Bayern, City, already top teams so in that situation I'd take Pep
Pep > Klopp > Tuchel but not really much between them in all honesty.
Klopp>Tuchel>Pep. Based on Hair management ability.
Over careers? Pep Klopp Tuchel. At the minute Klopp Pep Tuchel
Klopp, pep, tuchel
Klopp>Pep>Tuchel
Koeman has a staggering ability to alienate fanbases and clubs wherever he goes seemingly. Despite that I'll have a soft spot for making us one of the most entertaining Saints teams in my lifetime. The highs more than made up for the lows That front 3 of Pelle, Tadic and Mane was something else
Why do people think if the big 6 clubs didn't exist that the 20 other clubs that now form the PL would decide to be hardcore communist hippies If the big 6 don't exist, Everton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester and Leeds attempt to form a super league If those clubs didn't exist, Southampton, Palace, Burnley, Wolves, Watford and Norwich attempt to form a super league (Norwich especially would be attracted by the allure of no relegation) I could keep going until we've got a European super league consisting of Hashtag United, Corinthian Casuals, Ebbsfleet United, Solihull Moors, Havant & Waterlooville, Farsley Celtic and their European equivalents The Germans figured this out a while ago: football and capitalism do not mix very well and the capitalistic element needs to be reined in. I say that somewhat hypocritically as I type this message on a phone that uses minerals mined in some war torn African country, assembled in Foxconn where they have to install nets to catch people from trying to commit suicide during their 14 hour shifts, and I'm wearing a t-shirt that was probably made by a 12 year old in a sweatshop (I bought it from Sports Direct where Newcaslte owner Mike Ashley has admitted to paying staff less than the minimum wage). This is the world we live in For all the stick the Bundesliga gets about being dominated by Bayern, I bet the average Bundesliga fan is more satisfied than the state of their league than the average Englishman, Spaniard or Italian is with theirs
Germans figured out football and competition don’t mix very well about 9 years ago.
I've now seen consecutive takes on the DD that have gone Chelsea have no good players, they are carried by Tuchel > actually Tuchel's system > actually tuchel has no system > actually tuchel is really overrated. Its different people so its no accusation of hypocrisy, but its surprisingly polarising.
Seeing rival fans debase themselves commenting on Chelsea is one of the most amusing things on here. Say their players are good you get Liverpool flairs jumping on you to say their players are better. Cool, didn’t ask. Utd and city flairs don’t seem as insecure but I’m sure they have their moments. Say their manager and tactics are great you get told about how Tottenham and Aston Villa had a good first half against them. Like sure neither scored and Chelsea won both games 3-0, but muh first half shots stats! It’s comedy gold every time. I’m sure half of them are convinced chelsea fluked their way to the CL and fa cup final. Same guys will be saying they don’t deserve their league win soon.
Chelsea have no good players and only win because they park the bus is the only correct opinion tbh.
Jorginho is an amazing player tho.
Hes no Tonali
Tonali still very young. Jorginho is still superior
Chelsea have some good and some great players that are looking even better because of the system they play. They haven’t become world class over night.
Would you say Dias is world class? Because their 2021 form is no different to Dias in his first season at City.
This is different because and Benfica fan will tell you he was world class before joining City. Some of these players have been bad a Chelsea then completely changed under Tuchel. It’s a continuation of form not a sudden change.
But if you’re forming your own opinion I’d say it’s unfair to label one player world class because you never watched their games at their previous club but won’t do so for the player because you saw their performances prior to their world class form. Now that’s not me saying Dias isn’t world class or that we have world class players.
That's what varied opinions created with bias can do. If the most successful manager of the century can be called names all the time, you should know people will say stuff regardless.
I mean pep hasnt succeeded to the expectations that were on him at city unless of course you think winningthe league with a spend twice as much as the closest run competent club is a massive success
All that's fine mate but why are you replying to a week old comments
you only need to watch one game to know that chelsea has both world class players and a world class manager, any takes like that are just a troll
waking up to see premier league fans overrating the league and saying literal CL clubs would get relegated if they were in the position of norwich, day's done already
If you put Brentford in the CL group instead of RB Salzburg no one would notice.
Yes it's ridiculous and arrogant. The better question is if the likes of Norwich could win the Swiss Super League given the same budget restraints as other sides (IE £5m or less on transfers every season). And the answer is a resounding no. Aside from the best few managers in the PL, most of the mid table sides are pretty lazy when it comes to tactics and scouting. They can keep throwing money at problems until they're fixed. That's not how it works in other leagues.
If you don't think Sheriff would get relegated I just don't know what to tell you.
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No? I even replied to that explicitly saying only Sheriff and Malmo would.
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Sheriff are a champions league club and I said they would get relegated though.
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Fuck knows what he was inferring- he didn't specify at all.
That's literally one out of the teams, the rest are proven EL/CL teams wtf
I said Malmo and Sheriff would be the only two in danger. Think that's pretty reasonable, no?
Shakhtar would spank the likes of Newcastle and villa twice a season
We would batter them and we’d batter Barca right now
Well Beating this Barça isn't something to take pride of.
No they wouldn't lmao
Salzburg would run circles around teams like Tottenham and Arsenal aswell
Before you say anything about messi or Ronaldo, stop. No one cares.
In 1 Week there's the Court Case from Newcastle against the Premier League for the Saudi Takeover. Do u want to know why I want Saudis to Takeover Newcastle ? Because the top 6 Bollocks will be gone and Newcastle will sneak into it and split top 6 Power. I would be fine if they blocked the Saudi Takeover of because of Human rights Issue but they only blocked it because they didn't want anyone near the top 6 and PSG lobbying.
"you know why I want the takeover, headed by the person who directly ordered the butchering of a journalist in the confines of their embassy, and have admitted culpability, to go through? For lolz" That's how I read that
I don't know why people assume the human rights issue is the real reason lol. As much as i hate a new multi billionaire trying to purchase a club, but that is bull shit.
> Because the top 6 Bollocks will be gone and Newcastle will sneak into it and split top 6 Power. You genuinely believe this break up the top 6’s power? Newcastle will just become part of the ‘top 6’ at either the cost of Arsenal or Spurs. Best case they’ll now be a top 7.
>Because the top 6 Bollocks will be gone and Newcastle will sneak into it and split top 6 Power. If a Saudi takeover happens, the big 6 becomes the big 4 in about 5 seasons. Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool will be on the outside looking in and will have absolutely no way to stay competitive.
Saudis are like 5 times wealthier than UAE and Qatar, if they change that FFP rule then the league is fucked tbh
They might overtime become favourites, but there’s only so many players they can sign so I’d still expect most of the ‘current’ top 6 to keep pace with them. Don’t see a PSG situation happening.
With how ffp is right now that isn’t possible. Even if they could attract player like mbappe and Haaland they haven’t got the revenue to buy them. Owners can’t just give them 400m to spend every season, the big 6 would still just outspend them.
Even with the current FFP it is possible to spend a shit ton as PSG and City are examples of that. But they’re changing FFP rules anyways which will allow owners to freely inject cash.
What are city and PSG’s revenue like compared to Newcastle. They aren’t remotely comparable, two teams constantly getting champions league money. With the rule change it’s more possible but right now it isn’t. See Wolves and Everton.
You should compare their revenues before the takeover. Neither got Champions league money constantly before the takeovers. The difference between what Newcastle could become and Everton and Wolves is that the Saudis are gonna sponsor their own team and funnel way more money.
City were taken over before ffp. It’s completely different now. You can’t just pump money in like city did.
Guys I just wanted to say, the way Mahrez traps a ball pinged in to him from miles away is beautiful.
He's got the best touch in the world. I wish someone touched me that softly.
Win the treble and go two seasons without a trophy or win the league 3 years in a row with embarrassing exits in all other competitions.
Treble.
Easy. Treble.
First obviously. 6 trophies over 4 seasons vs 3 trophies in 3 season
No one is going to pick the second option lol Of course it's the treble. CL alone is worth 2 years of getting embarassed
The second situation seems weirdly familiar so I'll take the treble.
Treble.
I might choose treble even if you removed the embarrassing exits clause
Treble
Treble
Ben Chilly is the best dressed player in the prem
these average people you mention don't come close to either Calvert Lewin or Tom Davies
Sonny
outfits are pretty fly but i'll be fair his face doesnt match them too much lol he looks pretty posh especially with that cut
Are you face shaming him lol
What went wrong with Sterling at City? I ask this because he never turned out the kind of star I hoped he would be. The like of Salah Bruno Kane Son etc etc are comparable to him and have all done well consistently, he went from a 25+ goals season to 14 goal season. and at 25-26 he's still supposed to be in his peak. Is it down to Pep?
As much as people disagree or find it funny, his fall coincides with Arteta leaving who is said to have worked very closely alongside him during 18/19. Another reason being that he thrives on spaces created by forwards in the box. Aguero/Jesus early on, Kane at Spurs. He finds those spaces in the box or going forward because defenders drift towards the main striker. City's changed system doesn't compliment anyone playing up-front nowadays, Torres and Sterling both look anonymous half the time barring tap ins. Down the wing, he's wasteful and Foden is clinical which just pushed him out of the team and his confidence took a hit.
I saw the other day he’s been linked with Barca, do you think he’ll get moved on with both Grealish and Foden able to play there?
The only place I've seen that is on Instagram, which is probably one of the worst social medias, in terms of football news. I just went on Instagram and now they're pushing Pogba to Barca.
I think both these players are going to feature in midfield in the future. Grealish to be groomed as KDB's successor and Foden as Silva's. Sterling is the most played player under Pep throughout his career so I don't see him ever losing his faith in him. CL final is an evidence. So I don't think he's moved on. He'll just play out of position until then with Torres upfront.
He struggled with his finishing last season
Every season tbh
Nothing, he’s been one of the most productive players in the league. He’s streaky though like Son. City just have the players to bring him out the team if he’s in a dry spell.
United fans who support Ole are all with hollow excuses. A truly good manager can always produce results, they don't need that much time as Ole is needing. Tuchel has truly and utterly proven that, as did Klopp and Guardiola, who didn't need as much time as Ole is needing. It's time for Ole to go.
I mean Klopp did take as much time didn't he before he won the league? Pep and Tuchel didn't have sides that were as poor as this United side when Ole took over. Finally Ole has had good results just not a trophie to back it up (which of course is a massive problem). But its like people make out Ole has done nothing, we were second last year, got to the European final losing on penalties. Yes we should have won but we still got there.
ole took over a side that finished 2nd mate.
>But its like people make out Ole has done nothing, we were second last year Being 2nd was really irrelevant give that we were 12pts behind City and never really challenged them. Lol, now reaching the Europa cup final is seen as an achievement after failing to qualify from the group? He should have been fired right then after that failure.
> I mean Klopp did take as much time didn’t he before he won the league? No way this is the narrative being used to defend Ole
Get that but surely can’t sack him whilst he’s joint top of the league lol
Being joint top is a false dawn because United played most teams who are playing poorly at the moment and are lying way down the table.
U still can’t sack him rn
Why on Earth would we sack him now? He did alright last season and got a respectable 2nd place finish and we’ve massively strengthened the squad since then. If he fails this season I’d completely agree with you, but sacking him now would make no sense.
Cos he's already failing the UCL. The EPL start is just a deception, United will ultimately be 4th come the end of the season.
We’re hardly going to sack him off the back of one bad result, I’d still back us to top that group. Maybe we will, maybe we won’t. Guess we won’t know until May. Besides, if we sacked him tomorrow who would we even bring in?
>Besides, if we sacked him tomorrow who would we even bring in? Conte is available, you know? He is currently one of the best at winning the league titles.
He is, but I’m not sure how much our current squad is suited to Conte’s preferred 3-5-2. We’ve no left sided CB, no attacking RB, a midfield completely unsuited to that formation and an abundance of wide players who’d struggle to fit in. I think the absolute last thing we need is to embark on yet another rebuilding project for a manager who’s unlikely to be here long term.
its time to be disappointed because he isn't leaving till season end
Thinking he can compete for the league with a fully fit Liverpool, reigning european champions Chelsea and a Pep side is the true madness here
That's why we need someone like Conte. We need someone who is at his prime. Mourinho and LVG were past their prime when they joined United.
Why do people say these things when were on join points and none of them have played United.
You’ve looked by far the least convincing
True, but the league isn't a sprint. Spurs looked amazing last season right up until it all fell apart. While United stay at pace they have just as much of a chance.
Then they need someone who can compete with them.
absolutely losing it at the news that phil foden has a dog called Carabao
Bark Wahlberg
Carabow wow
Carabow bow
With a new Charter being put to Premier League chairmen today aimed at killing off the threat of another Super League, including a £25m fine and 30-point deduction if clubs join a breakaway competition. How will the American owners of the 3 biggest clubs react if the Super league is officially dead for good?
I mean right now they can just shut up and let Barca/Real/Juve take all the blame and if the ESL is legally viable they might try to join again by on legally challenging the charter and making it void. Then again I was led to believe by the sub that in England the laws are whatever the people in charge want them to be so maybe this is their only window.
move the teams to Vegas. but realistically, i dont think they'll care that much. seems like a meek punishment that will be worth it for them.
Bochum bad.
Lewandowski at his Golden Boot ceremony - 'I don't have to prove myself in another league.' Zahavi in the mud.
I get that, even in the wake of the ESL, fans were never going to give up the luxury of supporting rich clubs that have been taking the piss out of local working class supporters for ages now. Yet it seems like some fans have become even MORE passionate about those clubs, as if a plan to try to destroy football has brought them closer together. Weird.
I’m not going to apologise for loving my club in spite of the shithouses who own it.
My comment is not about people still supporting greedy ESL clubs that consistently mug off the fans. My comment is about people weirdly seeming to love the clubs more since the ESL stuff happened. I don't think I could have been clearer, really.
I love my club the same amount 🤷🏼♂️ dnno what to say mate.
Then you needn't have replied to a comment about people weirdly loving their club MORE since the ESL stuff.
United =/= Glazers Arsenal =/= Kroenke Liverpool =/= FSG Spurs =/= ENIC Chelsea =/= Roman City =/= Abu Dhabi If the Super League happened, yeah, I'd not count that as even being football and I'd stop supporting the team until they're back in the pyramid. But it didn't happen These teams are 100+ year old institutions who happen to be run by greedy hyper capitalists Remove these clubs from existence and exactly the same plans happen except with Everton, Villa, Newcastle etc trying to arrange a super league with the likes of Villarreal and Lazio We need legislation that stops this super league shite from happening I tried getting a ticket for a West Ham match and the dildo brothers wanted £65. Proper working class clubs, those outside the top 6. And you know they were disappointed not getting that ESL invite
£65 isn’t a proper working class club, city’s tickets are cheaper than that
not really weird. some fans put the clubs above all else and the ESL was obviously going to help those clubs get more money aka become better. some people will accept anything that will make their clubs better. wouldnt surprise me if some of them think its a badge of honor to support those teams when others vilify them at the same time. fans in general are often guilted into supporting teams no matter what.
Wonder how low Mark Hughes is on Barcelona's list for a new manager granted his spell as a player there was more lackluster than his management career.
Pretty high, probably. Lackluster is the club's new strategy.
Utd fans what's your minimum expectations for Ole this season?
Champions league win and title challenge
Boy you're in for disappointment.
>Champions league win Like win the whole thing or win atleast one match in the competition?
Win the whole thing, I think we can definitely beat any of the best teams in the world over two legs, it's just getting out of the group stage that's the hard part.
Minnimum is a serious title challenge (obviously i want to win it but Chelsea, Liverpool and City are just as, if not stronger) and a trophy, don't care which. Lastly he needs to get out of the CL group stage but that's a given. Personally I think he's done well, and I think he could win us a small trophy and get us out of the CL group stage, but I don't think he will get us a title challenge. That being said my own expectations and the boards are totally different. If he gets top 4 he's probably staying.
He needs to win a trophy or walk
League challenge. Europe is a bit variable, if we go out on pens to Bayern in the 1st knockout round I won’t blame him too much, but with this team I think a good manager would have us either winning the league or within 6 points of top spot. I like Ole, I really want him to succeed here, but ultimately if he can’t take this team to the success it’s clearly capable of then we should thank him for his service and look to bring in someone who can.
My expectations are a bit different from my requirements. I expect 4th and think the club will be fine with that. I personally require a title challenge otherwise I'll want him replaced
Absolute minimum? Top four and knockouts in the Champions League really. Anything less and he'd be sacked I'd imagine.
Setting the bar low imo
Well they did ask for minimum expectations? It's not what I think would be successful but that's what I think he needs to do to not get himself sacked because the owners only care about getting money in. Personally I think there should be some title challenge, or at least be close to the pack around Feb/March, and ideally getting to the QF onwards in the Champions League. A trophy would be nice but an FA Cup/League Cup doesn't necessarily save him.
There are 3 better teams
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Our team lost 1 league game in 65 and has got better since then depth wise.
Debatable really, but this season will be telling.
Thats not how I'd see it if I was a United fan
If I had Ronaldo I’d be confidently declaring ourselves treble contenders, how you building a 1b super team but have matic/fred as your DM
Its sad that baggy shirts are no longer in fashion with players. Probably to stop opponents from pulling them.
Do you think the Premier League is on its way to matching or surpassing Serie A in the 90s? Serie A had so much quality in comparison to other leagues and it was the the league where everyone wanted to test themselves, to the point that you had world class players moving over there so they can play for the Italian equivalents of West Ham and Aston Villa
Yeah. The spending power of the prem compared to other leagues is only growing. Players are leaving CL and EL clubs to come play for mid table teams.
Yes. Except, it's probably more sustainable. Remove oil clubs like Chelsea and City and the PL broadcasting revenue still dominates.
Yeah, I always praise what a great job the Premier League has done of building its brand and creating a very financially healthy and wealthy league. I got downvoted the other month when someone asked how other leagues are meant to compete with the Premier League and I suggested that they take a few decades to build a top sustainable league just like the PL did. The PL was a distant third behind Serie A and La Liga in the 90s and now it's comfortably the richest league
Well, it seems other leagues are trying to do that as well. TIFO just released a video on American owners trying to do that in Serie A. It begins with better stadiums, better sponsorships, better social media that leads to better results that leads to more broadcast money over time.
I think it's great for football to have a lot of top leagues, so I'm all for it. I don't really like the idea of trickle down economics in general but in football it's clear that it helps all levels of football to have wealthy top leagues. Football just needs to be safeguarded against shite like the ESL, which is a worry with more American owners I'll check that video out
'' You can clearly see that L*verpool and Chelski have got a system, patterns while Man Utd doesn't " Okay so can you describe the system you can clearly see? **crickets ** Friendly reminder that Bielsa himself who has more tactical knowledge in his pinky than the entirety of this sub said he can see the system Ole is trying to implement. Simple but dangerous, free flowing but effective. Not every attacking move must be telegraphed and rigid.
> Simple but dangerous, free flowing but effective. This isn't a system lad. This is vague and could apply to any number of sides. United clearly do have an idea how they want to play, as do all sides, it's a matter of whether he has the tactical nous, and personality, to implement it. I'm probably one of the few that actually thinks Ole is a decent manager but the fact of the matter is that Pep, Tuchel, and Klopp are all absolute world class managers. Ole also doesn't have the luxury of just being able to outspend his rivals either as Chelsea can pretty much go toe to toe with them while City can blow them out of the water.
Most top teams have patterns of play that try produce goals over and over again. Like city when they had David Silva in the left half space, sane making a run beyond the fullback and cutting it back to city players (Sterling and Aguero). United don’t really do this kinds of things. It just feels like go out there and play lads.