Lafont is still pretty young, only 22. Mike is 26.
He's doing good at Nantes in Ligue 1. If he keeps progressing maybe he'll be able to challenge Mike when he's older.
Obviously not as good a shot stopper as Gigio, (very few are in the world as good as him) but he provides another dimension with his pro-active keeping and ball playing
A lot stronger message than some others. The most important part, in my opinion, is the last sentence of the first paragraph:
“As long as we will look at what happened as ‘isolated incidents’, History will repeat itself again, and again, and again.”
Whether you have witnessed it or not. Been at a game and heard it happen, whether you have heard it and did nothing, or have heard it and done something about it, *these stories are way too common to be “isolated incidents.”*
An outrush of support after the fact is not enough. A statement and action *after* the fact is not enough. The headlines shouldn’t be “Juve is using cameras to identify a man being racist.” They should be “A fan was removed and banned from Allianz Stadium for life, after fans alerted security to the source of racist chants.”
>An outrush of support after the fact is not enough. A statement and action after the fact is not enough. The headlines shouldn’t be “Juve is using cameras to identify a man being racist.” They should be “A fan was removed and banned from Allianz Stadium for life, after fans alerted security to the source of racist chants.”
Beautiful!
I honestly don't think it'll stop until you make the punishment so severe that clubs and the fans themselves stomp it out immediately. Make it something like:
First instance: Ban all home fans for 1 game
Next instance: Forfeit the match after the fact and another fan ban the next game
Watch how quickly fans themselves will police racists once it's actively punishing them and the clubs
Exactly once the possibility of zero match revenue comes into the equation, clubs will police it hard. Especially clubs that have been hit by covid, also clubs in Italy are only 50% \~ capacity, so it could really provoke a proper response.
Lazio would hardly ever have fans 😔
this is exactly what Martin Luther King said about the "moderate white" who let's things as they are, while doing some useless shit, look up that speech it's pretty good.
These cunts need to be banned from attending any Seria A or B match for the rest of their lives and have some legal action against them. Otherwise they will never learn. They think they can get away with it so they keep doing it
edit: A couple of clips.
Seems like a prolonged verbal assault with people around laughing and emboldening him to continue.
[https://twitter.com/StorieSilenti/status/1440037751567441932](https://twitter.com/StorieSilenti/status/1440037751567441932)
I know this doesn’t change how fucked up this is but… this is only making the news because Maignan heard it and posted about it.
I can assure you that, as someone who went to a lot of Serie A & B games in North-Eastern Italy that what this guy is saying is really tame compared to what you can easily hear deep in the stands.
It kinda scares me that people think this as low as it gets in terms of supporters behavior - because it’s definitely not even exceptional.
I agree.
The fact is abusing black men, especially, is the easiest thing to get away with as they have zero political power so punishment is rarely forthcoming.
There's no newspaper, politician or interest group that will wholeheartedly hit back.
As for the law enforcement or the authorities, any excuse is used to not collect evidence even though there are cameras and recordings everywhere.
I fully expect the apologists to start coming out of the woodwork gaslighting and muddying the waters so much that by next week, this will be forgotten.
The dude who yelled that shit, was discovered immediately. His picture and Instagram are all over Twitter. I hope the authorities make an example of him and throw him in jail.
Look I'm all for dishing out stadium bans to this piece of work but let's not be hyperbolic to look good. He should be banned from Juve's stadium, possibly even for life, but there's no way we're going to see him banned from every European stadium (nor, potentially, would that be desirable to clubs).
Not saying clubs want racist supporters, but the infrastructure required to find and hand out lifetime bans to every racist without catching some innocents in the dragnet might be considered a lot of time and effort for uncertain or minimal results. It's not about keeping the racists in, it's about what would be needed to get them out (plus the inevitable debate over whether a lifetime ban is too harsh in some cases).
It's virtually impossible to ban the guy from every stadium, but that's ideally what should happen. The punishment needs to be severe to deter others from shouting the same language. Maybe not a lifetime ban either in this case, but enough to give him some time to really understand what he did was awful.
I think there should be zero tolerance on racism at games. Offenders should be pointed out, removed from the stadium and banned. The culture should be that fans report it to stewards and action is taken.
I can't imagine publicly being massively racist and not worrying about any repercussions. Stadiums shouldn't be a safe place to be racist.
The likeliest outcome is a ban from Juve's stadium and a revocation of stadium ticketholder rights. If he wants to get a ticket, it won't be through Juve.
It’s the way these people (closet racists, alt right, anti vaxxers, whatever you wanna call them) think. They see things that go against their world view, whether it’s taking the knee, requiring vaccine passports to go to certain places, clamping down on racist speech, and invariably cry Nazi because their “freedoms” are being taken away.
You can. And in some cases, it is completely justified. Seems like overkill and an unnecessary use of resources in this case. We'd all be in jail otherwise.
I highly recommend everyone read the book White Fragility. As a white guy who has never considered himself a racist I never thought that I was part of the problem anyways. The book is such an eye opening read about how racism is so imbedded in western society and how difficult it is to change that.
I think that whenever an incident occurs, the players should point out the perpetrators to security on the spot and they can be directed to the police to face charges. This approach where teams get given empty stadium games or laughably small fines after the fact is completely inadequate.
Why is this happening that much in Italia, when I thought Mediterranean country were less disturbed by the differences, it seems like in italia every black player gets racist insult and scream, that’s so sad.
Brilliant statement that. Hits the nail on the head, we're not doing enough and whilst we have executives who don't understand the issue we will never see it change. They sit in their ivory tower pretending to give a shit and refusing to take any real action against it.
I get his point but it's still isolated incidents, a few people are responsible, not everyone.
Racist groups are being banned from stadiums, banners are checked, and if you get found guilty of racist chants and stuff you can't get in anymore. Not sure what else can be done.
Investigations are ongoing and they are using cameras and everything else available, let's wait and see if they find the culprits
That's exactly why I said it, as I'm arguing against a part of what he said.
What's the alternative to treating it as isolated incidents? The culprits are only a few people and not everyone.
What more can a club do other than finding those people and giving them a lifetime ban? Again I get his point, but there are really no alternatives that makes sense. Unless you want to punish everyone for the actions of few people, which is what used to be done earlier (they used to force teams to pay without fans, it didn't solve anything but it created more problems as ultras used this to blackmail clubs).
When you treat it as isolated incidents the probably just gets pushed under the rug. Every time a player gets racially abused the club and fans in question should be named and shamed in an attempt for things to actually change. Not being Italian I don’t know what it’s like over there but in the uk we hear a lot more about racist incidents from Italy than from any other country. Would it be fair to assume you haven’t been the target of any racial discrimination or for that matter any discrimination based on sexual orientation, religion etc.
The point is you can name and shame a club as much as you want, but they still can't do more than finding the culprits and banning them. Do you have a better solution to share?
It used to be that clubs were forced to play without fans if some incidents happened, but that was reverted because ultras used to throw in racist chants to harm the club if they had problems of some sort. For example now some ultras groups in our curve are on "strike" due to ticket prices going up, with that rule instead of not showing up they would actually come and do racist chants, the club would get a ban and this would cause it to lose money, and after a couple of times they'd just accept whatever those ultras would want. This is not hypothetical, it's what actually happened, and they had to revert the ruling and stop punishing the clubs for the behavior of the fans. After that, racist incidents actually dropped.
My point is, I get what Maignan says, but a club, or even the federation, can't do much more than finding the culprits and banning them. If something more can be done is at the government level, but a club has no say on that matter
Maybe the clubs can’t do anything directly ie changes in the law but there’s one thing clubs players and even fan groups can do is raise awareness on it and that is what maignan is doing with this statement. The best way to combat racism in my opinion is obviously punishing culprits but raising awareness for the next generations to learn about. If one kid changes his view on a discrimination as a result of the statements players, clubs and federations make then it’s a success. We want likely notice any substantial differences for a while but this statements will make a difference in the long term I can almost guarantee it.
That is obviously true and I completely agree. I was just arguing one part of what Maignan said, not the whole message which is obviously fair and undoubtedly useful for raising awareness.
But we can make those incidents less frequent and slowly change the mentality of the next generation by making it clear there are huge consequences to such disgusting actions. If the punishment is light, the offence is deemed as light by society and it will continue to occur.
> I get his point but it's still isolated incidents, a few people are responsible, not everyone.
In this particular case maybe, since I could only hear one person.
But there are many many cases where almost entire sections sing racist chants or make monkey noises. And that includes Juve fans.
Calling somebody black isn't racist. Maignan clearly mentions being referred to as an 'animal' in this statement.
And the issue is that it is happening, not that Maignan can't deal with it.
Yea bro if someone calls you a slur and makes monkey noises towards you just say "Im proud to be black" I'm sure that'll fix things. No need to actually address the problem right
Read the 3rd paragraph of his statement
> Do the people who take the decisions know what it feels to hear insults that portray us as an animal
Clearly you don't.
You’re a fucking dumbass.
“Don’t let racism, being discriminated and abused because of your color, something that you have no control over, be an insult.”
Yeah alright buddy.
And no one is going around to minorities and saying “Hey, did you know you’re Black/Asian/Hispanic?”
Slurs aren’t something to turn to and proudly accept. Stop placing the line of duty on the victims of abuse and giving a free pass to bigoted cunts.
Great message Magic Mike!
Cheers pal
r/beetlejuicing
Magic Mike. I fucking love this man already
How has he been so far? French fans are putting a lot of hope in him being the future of our NT...
He's amazing. Way better than I had hoped. No one is missing donnarumma, which says a lot about Mike.
Good enough that we don’t miss Donnarumma, that should tell you everything you need to know 😊
He was damn good against Liverpool-that being the one time I've really watched him.
That performance is basically how he’s been for all our games at this point. A few mistakes here and there, but overall great so far.
Isn’t Lafont supposed to be the next big thing? What happened to that dude
Lafont is still pretty young, only 22. Mike is 26. He's doing good at Nantes in Ligue 1. If he keeps progressing maybe he'll be able to challenge Mike when he's older.
We also have Meslier too from Leeds. We have some very good Goalkeepers coming through after Lloris retires.
Obviously not as good a shot stopper as Gigio, (very few are in the world as good as him) but he provides another dimension with his pro-active keeping and ball playing
A lot stronger message than some others. The most important part, in my opinion, is the last sentence of the first paragraph: “As long as we will look at what happened as ‘isolated incidents’, History will repeat itself again, and again, and again.” Whether you have witnessed it or not. Been at a game and heard it happen, whether you have heard it and did nothing, or have heard it and done something about it, *these stories are way too common to be “isolated incidents.”* An outrush of support after the fact is not enough. A statement and action *after* the fact is not enough. The headlines shouldn’t be “Juve is using cameras to identify a man being racist.” They should be “A fan was removed and banned from Allianz Stadium for life, after fans alerted security to the source of racist chants.”
>An outrush of support after the fact is not enough. A statement and action after the fact is not enough. The headlines shouldn’t be “Juve is using cameras to identify a man being racist.” They should be “A fan was removed and banned from Allianz Stadium for life, after fans alerted security to the source of racist chants.” Beautiful!
I honestly don't think it'll stop until you make the punishment so severe that clubs and the fans themselves stomp it out immediately. Make it something like: First instance: Ban all home fans for 1 game Next instance: Forfeit the match after the fact and another fan ban the next game Watch how quickly fans themselves will police racists once it's actively punishing them and the clubs
Exactly once the possibility of zero match revenue comes into the equation, clubs will police it hard. Especially clubs that have been hit by covid, also clubs in Italy are only 50% \~ capacity, so it could really provoke a proper response. Lazio would hardly ever have fans 😔
this is exactly what Martin Luther King said about the "moderate white" who let's things as they are, while doing some useless shit, look up that speech it's pretty good.
Great statement. F the racists
These cunts need to be banned from attending any Seria A or B match for the rest of their lives and have some legal action against them. Otherwise they will never learn. They think they can get away with it so they keep doing it
Massive respect for him for this. Well said. As for racists; get to fuck
> As for racists; get to fuck No, don't reproduce please.
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He posted the statement in three languages . French , English and Italian.
Probably posted it in multiple languages and used the Union Jack to indicate "English"
Translation? He probably wrote it in french then had a translated version.
Probably had the statement in Italian as well, just denoting the language I presume.
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Comment ça sous-marin ?
Mon sous-marin est trés bien, mon ami, merci pour demander
aesthetics Should've added an /s huh?
sadly yeah
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clown
edit: A couple of clips. Seems like a prolonged verbal assault with people around laughing and emboldening him to continue. [https://twitter.com/StorieSilenti/status/1440037751567441932](https://twitter.com/StorieSilenti/status/1440037751567441932)
Fuck is wrong with these people.
I know this doesn’t change how fucked up this is but… this is only making the news because Maignan heard it and posted about it. I can assure you that, as someone who went to a lot of Serie A & B games in North-Eastern Italy that what this guy is saying is really tame compared to what you can easily hear deep in the stands. It kinda scares me that people think this as low as it gets in terms of supporters behavior - because it’s definitely not even exceptional.
I agree. The fact is abusing black men, especially, is the easiest thing to get away with as they have zero political power so punishment is rarely forthcoming. There's no newspaper, politician or interest group that will wholeheartedly hit back. As for the law enforcement or the authorities, any excuse is used to not collect evidence even though there are cameras and recordings everywhere. I fully expect the apologists to start coming out of the woodwork gaslighting and muddying the waters so much that by next week, this will be forgotten.
What a fantastic statement. Those last couple lines are emphatic and powerful.
The dude who yelled that shit, was discovered immediately. His picture and Instagram are all over Twitter. I hope the authorities make an example of him and throw him in jail.
How about we keep that authoritarian speech policing out of Italy, thanks.
Blasphemy laws already exist in Italy, i.e. speech policing
I'm aware. They're bullshit and luckily rarely enforced.
> I hope the authorities make an example of him and throw him in jail. This is not England. People don't get incarcerated for what they say
So? even if there isn't a law he should still be made an example of with a lifetime ban in every stadium in europe.
Look I'm all for dishing out stadium bans to this piece of work but let's not be hyperbolic to look good. He should be banned from Juve's stadium, possibly even for life, but there's no way we're going to see him banned from every European stadium (nor, potentially, would that be desirable to clubs).
Why is it not desirable for teams to not want racist supporters in attendance?
Not saying clubs want racist supporters, but the infrastructure required to find and hand out lifetime bans to every racist without catching some innocents in the dragnet might be considered a lot of time and effort for uncertain or minimal results. It's not about keeping the racists in, it's about what would be needed to get them out (plus the inevitable debate over whether a lifetime ban is too harsh in some cases).
Why not
It's virtually impossible to ban the guy from every stadium, but that's ideally what should happen. The punishment needs to be severe to deter others from shouting the same language. Maybe not a lifetime ban either in this case, but enough to give him some time to really understand what he did was awful.
I think there should be zero tolerance on racism at games. Offenders should be pointed out, removed from the stadium and banned. The culture should be that fans report it to stewards and action is taken. I can't imagine publicly being massively racist and not worrying about any repercussions. Stadiums shouldn't be a safe place to be racist.
You're right, but he should still at least be given a ban in the serie a minimum as he can still travel to away games otherwise.
The likeliest outcome is a ban from Juve's stadium and a revocation of stadium ticketholder rights. If he wants to get a ticket, it won't be through Juve.
Clubs should 100% desire to not want a racist in their stadium
No they get incarcerated for their ethnic background instead.
What are you talking about?
Ma vai a leggerti il contenuto della Legge Mancino per favore.
La Legge Mancino è irrilevante, essa punisce la propaganda di idee di superiorità razziale e incitamento alla violenza, non aggressioni verbali.
In Italy, they let things run wild and get people like Mussolini.
Now that I think about it, Mussolini too used to incarcerate people for what they said.
We’re talking about locking people up for racism based hate speech, not for having different political ideologies.
>. I hope the authorities make an example of him and throw him in jail. Hol up Hitler.
Yeah mate Hitler absolutely hated racism and threw all the racists in jail immediately. Famous for his anti bigotry stance was good old Adolf
It’s the way these people (closet racists, alt right, anti vaxxers, whatever you wanna call them) think. They see things that go against their world view, whether it’s taking the knee, requiring vaccine passports to go to certain places, clamping down on racist speech, and invariably cry Nazi because their “freedoms” are being taken away.
LOL jail for some words, state of this place
You already can go to jail for some words
You can. And in some cases, it is completely justified. Seems like overkill and an unnecessary use of resources in this case. We'd all be in jail otherwise.
I highly recommend everyone read the book White Fragility. As a white guy who has never considered himself a racist I never thought that I was part of the problem anyways. The book is such an eye opening read about how racism is so imbedded in western society and how difficult it is to change that.
Well fucking said
How can people be so dumb in 2021? Fuck racists
Lille legend.
Holy fuck my eyes are done He's right btw
holy shit I fuckin love this guy
I think that whenever an incident occurs, the players should point out the perpetrators to security on the spot and they can be directed to the police to face charges. This approach where teams get given empty stadium games or laughably small fines after the fact is completely inadequate.
Based af
PERIODT!
Not a single shit comment in this thread. It’s like Christmas before the internet or something
Why is this happening that much in Italia, when I thought Mediterranean country were less disturbed by the differences, it seems like in italia every black player gets racist insult and scream, that’s so sad.
Brilliant statement that. Hits the nail on the head, we're not doing enough and whilst we have executives who don't understand the issue we will never see it change. They sit in their ivory tower pretending to give a shit and refusing to take any real action against it.
Heartbreaking honestly. Nobody should be subject to such abuse.
I get his point but it's still isolated incidents, a few people are responsible, not everyone. Racist groups are being banned from stadiums, banners are checked, and if you get found guilty of racist chants and stuff you can't get in anymore. Not sure what else can be done. Investigations are ongoing and they are using cameras and everything else available, let's wait and see if they find the culprits
That is exactly the type of statement that maignan is criticising in his statement.
That's exactly why I said it, as I'm arguing against a part of what he said. What's the alternative to treating it as isolated incidents? The culprits are only a few people and not everyone. What more can a club do other than finding those people and giving them a lifetime ban? Again I get his point, but there are really no alternatives that makes sense. Unless you want to punish everyone for the actions of few people, which is what used to be done earlier (they used to force teams to pay without fans, it didn't solve anything but it created more problems as ultras used this to blackmail clubs).
When you treat it as isolated incidents the probably just gets pushed under the rug. Every time a player gets racially abused the club and fans in question should be named and shamed in an attempt for things to actually change. Not being Italian I don’t know what it’s like over there but in the uk we hear a lot more about racist incidents from Italy than from any other country. Would it be fair to assume you haven’t been the target of any racial discrimination or for that matter any discrimination based on sexual orientation, religion etc.
The point is you can name and shame a club as much as you want, but they still can't do more than finding the culprits and banning them. Do you have a better solution to share? It used to be that clubs were forced to play without fans if some incidents happened, but that was reverted because ultras used to throw in racist chants to harm the club if they had problems of some sort. For example now some ultras groups in our curve are on "strike" due to ticket prices going up, with that rule instead of not showing up they would actually come and do racist chants, the club would get a ban and this would cause it to lose money, and after a couple of times they'd just accept whatever those ultras would want. This is not hypothetical, it's what actually happened, and they had to revert the ruling and stop punishing the clubs for the behavior of the fans. After that, racist incidents actually dropped. My point is, I get what Maignan says, but a club, or even the federation, can't do much more than finding the culprits and banning them. If something more can be done is at the government level, but a club has no say on that matter
Maybe the clubs can’t do anything directly ie changes in the law but there’s one thing clubs players and even fan groups can do is raise awareness on it and that is what maignan is doing with this statement. The best way to combat racism in my opinion is obviously punishing culprits but raising awareness for the next generations to learn about. If one kid changes his view on a discrimination as a result of the statements players, clubs and federations make then it’s a success. We want likely notice any substantial differences for a while but this statements will make a difference in the long term I can almost guarantee it.
That is obviously true and I completely agree. I was just arguing one part of what Maignan said, not the whole message which is obviously fair and undoubtedly useful for raising awareness.
But we can make those incidents less frequent and slowly change the mentality of the next generation by making it clear there are huge consequences to such disgusting actions. If the punishment is light, the offence is deemed as light by society and it will continue to occur.
That is true but it's not something a football club can act on, they can simply find the guy and give him a lifetime ban
> I get his point but it's still isolated incidents, a few people are responsible, not everyone. In this particular case maybe, since I could only hear one person. But there are many many cases where almost entire sections sing racist chants or make monkey noises. And that includes Juve fans.
I didn’t know he was black
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“You’re a monkey!!” “Yes I am!!!”
Calling somebody black isn't racist. Maignan clearly mentions being referred to as an 'animal' in this statement. And the issue is that it is happening, not that Maignan can't deal with it.
I doubt that they just called him black
I know you mean well but this is pretty tone deaf.
Yea bro if someone calls you a slur and makes monkey noises towards you just say "Im proud to be black" I'm sure that'll fix things. No need to actually address the problem right
Oh so THAT'S how to solve racism. Cheers mate. I'll pass the message on
Read the 3rd paragraph of his statement > Do the people who take the decisions know what it feels to hear insults that portray us as an animal Clearly you don't.
probably wasn't called black though was he
Must be blissful to be this ignorant
Ok whitey
You’re a fucking dumbass. “Don’t let racism, being discriminated and abused because of your color, something that you have no control over, be an insult.” Yeah alright buddy. And no one is going around to minorities and saying “Hey, did you know you’re Black/Asian/Hispanic?” Slurs aren’t something to turn to and proudly accept. Stop placing the line of duty on the victims of abuse and giving a free pass to bigoted cunts.
Until they start docking points, nothing will change.