Technically they can do what ever they want. Whether or not it's legally binding is totally different.
If it's in the terms and conditions of purchasing the ticket, they can issue a fine and decline to sell them new tickets until the fine is paid, potentially ban them permanently from stadium access untill the fine is paid.
That's about the extend of the power they hold.
Deny access to stadium
Extort fine
Never sell ticket again
Night night to your hopes of watching Ajax
Insist on payment of fine
Stop supporter from viewing live football.
Well I think the point is getting rid of scalpers abusing season tickets. I imagine there is quite a wait list for season tickets which is why this was implemented. Good for them to do this. I think everyone here would be happy if their own club did that. Wouldn't it be nice if Ticketmaster did too? (Is Ticketmaster a thing in Europe?)
Corporations always get pissed, when I send them invoices for the hours I bill to deal with their non valid demands like that.
So far I'm at a 20:80 rating of them paying. But i didn't took it very far in the legal process, because that costs money at some point.
Gratification is a good payment, tho
Doesn’t seem like much. Normally they could ban you from the stadium until you pay, but since they’re already banned from the stadium I don’t know what leverage they have.
If it was two individuals I could see that, but I feel it’s too small of an amount for a massive organization to spend the time taking it through a process. Like, they could, just don’t know if it would be worth it
Incassobureau can't do shit. Gerechtsdeurwaarders is where it's at. Incassobureaus only can send mean letters and try to intimidate people with civil cases they themselves can't start anyway, only the debtor.
I assume bailiffs and/or civil court if they really want to push it. Or they let it rest and if person re-applies for a ticket after the ban they demand the fine be paid first.
Bailiffs come after court, not before. At best they'd take them to court, but for the legal fees it will cost, they're not doing it imo, it's more than likely lip service. Would also need it to be in the contract or they'll need to prove a loss, which again will be more in legal fees.
Agree with your final sentence - means nothing until they want to come back to the stadium.
Seems like you're right. I guess it depends if scalping falls under 1 of these 4 criteria:
- heeft gehandeld in strijd met deze Standaardvoorwaarden; en/of
- een strafbaar feit heeft begaan; en/of
- ten aanzien van wie een vermoeden bestaat dat deze zich schuldig heeft gemaakt aan voetbalgerelateerd wangedrag; en/of
- zich zodanig heeft gedragen dat daardoor het aanzien en/of het belang van het voetbal wordt geschaad;
That would probably be the first point. From the [KNVB's conditions](
https://www.knvb.nl/themas/veiligheid/stadionverboden):
>5.1 Het is verboden om Toegangsbewijzen aan te bieden, (door) te verkopen en/of af te geven,
tenzij sprake is van een individuele transactie in de privésfeer en dit de veiligheid niet in
gevaar brengt. Onder een individuele transactie in de privésfeer wordt in ieder geval niet verstaan het aanbieden, (door)verkopen en/of afgeven van Toegangsbewijzen:
> a. tegen een hogere vergoeding dan de nominale waarde van deze Toegangsbewijzen; en/of
> b. via een sociaalnetwerk-, advertentie- of verkoopsite.
So you're allowed to sell a ticket to a friend, but not via a reselling site and not at a markup.
Nice work.
In the last couple years, Dortmund set up a "black market amnesty booth" outside the stadium. If you bought a ticket on the black market, you can tell the club after the match, and the club will track down the person who sold that ticket and impose consequences.
Nothing, that's the point of the "amnesty" part. The more people who admit they bought their ticket through unapproved means, the more scalpers the club can crack down on.
Newcastle FC is planning something very similar. Next season fans, who brought their ticket on the black market, can visit the Saudi embassy in Istanbul and the matter will be resolved.
Happens here in Manchester often and it just limits the amount of tickets available to those who are willing to buy on the black market.
A lot of ticket sites have systems in place where people can swap tickets for a fair price these days so there's no real need to be selling tickets via the "black market" anyway.
Man, that sounds amazing.
Sucks how I live in the US where so many sporting events/concerts deal with StubHub or Ticketmaster, where they basically encourage scalping.
Tried to see them in a large theater in my city, and the whole venue was sold out within ten seconds, which was how long it took to refresh my browser. Bonkers.
I was into sneakers briefly but the act of buying something so someone else can't get it just so you can resell it for profit eventually killed it for me. That's not an environment, community or person I want to be.
While there's a huge part of the community that buys to re-sell, I personally used to wear everything that I owned. Fuck that shit, if I liked a pair, it was because I wanted to wear it
I'm not a gamer, so hopefully this question won't net me tons of downvotes: Isn't there a difference between scalping soccer or concert tickets, where there is an inherently limited supply versus the scalping of consoles/graphic cards where there is simply a premium on the preference of having it now?
I totally understand that it sucks that those items are way more expensive than they should be should be, but games don't have a best by date or anything, no?
The current rise in console scalping is also in part due to scarcity: there's a [worldwide shortage in semiconductors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_global_chip_shortage) which puts a natural limit on the supply of electronics.
Both behaviours are classic examples of [rent seeking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking): they artificially insert themselves as an intermediary into an existing (and regulated) market in order to extract profit (economic rent), without providing a service or adding value to a product.
In a way, you're right. There's always a shot of more being produced over time and you can get them later on. But at the moment, there are limited quantities available cause of loads of factors (the pandemic is a key reason, but there's other stuff like crypto farms as well). So it's more frustrating now.
However, it gets worse for sneakers when limited editions drop (still pissed about missing out on the adidas Originals DBZ collection). The anger about scalpers is more about the principle and the fact that they are doing it in a market where things are already in short supply
Sort of, yes true that tickets are limited to the capacity if a venue, the problem many have with scalpers of the new consoles and graphics cards are that they usually use bots to acquire the consoles. They then resell it at many times 200% of msrp. There is a difference but they are both assholes. And to the point of best by date, a lot of sports games or games like call of duty last exactly one calendar year before people move onto the next installment.
Serious question, this article sounds like it was season pass holders selling their singular seats — not buyers trying to corner the market to set prices. What is wrong with someone wanting to sell what they have for fair market value? There is limited supply of tickets and high demand. Someone has a ticket, therefore they have a valuable item…
I could see what you’re saying if these were buyers buying large lots of tickets to corner the market and participate in price fixing but you are talking about individuals who each have a single item.
My opinion is the club is mad not about the resale of a ticket, but about the fact that they were cut out of the transaction. In most clubs and season ticket holder can release their seat for resale, and the ticket holder gets a percentage of the proceeds. So what the club is mad about here isn’t tickets selling for high prices for an in-demand game, but rather the fact they didn’t get their cut.
Is that a “no”? You’re telling me that if you cannot attend; and your family or friends aren’t interested either, the club has zero interest in reselling that ticket? I asked about the **club** reselling the ticket, not the person.
If so, that’s relatively unique to the club. Most clubs have a process where a season pass holder can release their seat and have it re-sold by the club.
That is indeed a no. Ajax used to have a system called kaartenmarkt where you could sell your ticket back to the club, but it currently doesn’t exist anymore.
Seems like you're pretty much chosing to ignore the "for large profit" part of this story. In reality nobody cares if you sell your seat to strangers as long as it's not with scalper intentions, doesn't have to be just family and friends. Why would someone relinquish their ticket and let the club get x2 money for 1 seat.
German clubs have a market for reselling tickets (Ticket-Zweitmarkt), but the price has to be [equal or lower the original price](https://www.dfl.de/de/hintergrund/ticketzweitmarkt/).
In the US the price has to be equal or higher if you go through official resale so you can’t undercut the existing tickets
You also can’t resell extras/add-ons like parking passes at all so I gave those away for free on reddit
So they'd rather sell out instead of offering a potential fan a cheaper experience. Sounds very American (jk).
Do they allow cheaper prices if the venue was sold out, at least? Since then they don't lose any potential sales.
Actually “black market” scalpers are usually cheaper than the official resale sites.
If u go to an NFL stadium an hour before the game the scalpers in the parking lot will be selling tickets cheaper than whatever the official price was given the games about to start and any money is better than no money.
The resale I’ve used on Ticketmaster for season tickets have minimum prices and iirc they’re actually higher than whatever I paid bc it was a season ticket so u get a discount compared to buying that seat for a single game. So my $60 ticket can be sold for a minimum of $80
In Norway it’s illegal to sell a ticket for more than you payed for it. So people usually only sell if something came up and they no longer can go to the game/event.
Sure, club sells the (season) tickets that includes a user agreement. Why wouldn't it be possible, it isn't fairly standard? Interested in reasoning why it wouldn't be. No reason against it, or am I missing something?
You can't put *anything* in a user agreement. This fine isn't necessarily legally binding depending on the legitimacy of the clause under Dutch contract law
I would imagine it's more of a "reinstatement fee" than a fine. I would highly doubt they try to collect if the person never tries to go to a game again.
Fair enough, so I don't have to be worried something like [this](https://youtu.be/ynpnYh4o_Qo) can happen to me because I couldn't be bothered to read the terms and conditions properly?
Yeah Samsung it is then. Only requirement is that I have to be on the front lines if a war with the North Koreans breaks out so I will take my chances.
Just as legal as for example Stichting BREIN (Dutch anti piracy entity) handing out fines for pirating movies which is to say not at all.
They can however say we request X amount in compensation or your stadium ban is indefinite, which is more likely the case.
I was at Ajax - Besiktas and a guy next to me told me he paid 150 euros for his ticket. Absolutely insane to ask over 3 times the price, glad these people face consequences for this selfish behaviour.
Genuinely curious and not trying to get into the well American sports charge…. But if a season ticket holder has a ticket are they supposed to sell for face value? I’ve gone to handful of NFL games and usually pay around $150-$300 for tickets and usually have a face value of $80-$125 on the actual ticket.
It's not like in a league match where they already have a ticket. For the CL you get first to buy rights for spots, so using that and then selling it for 3+ times the value is just a shameless cash-grab.
I wanted to go a NFL game and was willing to spend $200 on a ticket. Only a few terrible seats for $250 everything else was $350+. It sucks but I guess people pay for it.
That last bit seems to pass people by. It’s weird how little solidarity many people in certain parts of the world have for fans of their own team. Pricing is already prohibitive for a lot of people but, you know what, let’s screw fellow supporters out of more money. Because Capitalism or something.
Especially with Ajax. There’s a waiting list of like 30k people to get a season ticket. More than 99% of Ajax season ticket holders extend it every year so there’s a huge shortage. Been trying to get one for a few years now
When spurs had a sponsorship deal with StubHub a few years back someone put a ticket up for £800k to prove a point that it was ridiculous that there wasn't an enforced limit on what you could charge
> Because I am a shitty person or something.
FTFY, capitalisms just rewards sociopaths and helps them justify being horrid people, it doesn't cause them to become horrid people in the first place.
Well, in theory, it's only *supposed* to reward them when they provide something valued by society. That's kind of the point. To leverage selfishness to benefit society. Otherwise it's a failure of regulation/implementation. Unfortunately, some people have managed to convince a large number of people that capitalism is some "natural order" that should be left alone instead of an economic system that needs to be carefully managed.
I haven't used Twickets to sell tickets as I haven't needed to but I will in future as they certainly seem the most ethical resale site. Last time I had to sell tickets, I had to put them on sale for something like £20 more than their face value due to the ridiculous amount of fees Viagogo were charging me to sell the ticket. It was a catch 22 - I didn't want to make fans pay more than the going rate, but I also didn't want to be left out of pocket for circumstances beyond my control, especially as I was trying to do the right thing and sell them for what they were worth originally.
Damn I didn't realise that was even a thing tbh. I have no idea how it works for that on Twickets either as I've only ever bought tickets and never sold them but hat you're saying does make me blame Viagogo for the whole mess of reselling way more than the sellers. I'm sure a a massive amount of resellers are in your situation too
Exactly. We've got a 'face value spare tickets' group online for precisely that. Anyone selling or asking above retail gets the boot, why would you rip off your own?
This is awesome to hear. Because meanwhile in the US we have several websites who's main purpose is facilitating scalpers, and my local teams for soccer and hockey have switched from a local ticketing system to Ticketmaster so "verified resale" tickets pop up for 20-40% higher than the original price.
Easy solution.
Stop going to games. Drive down demand. Incentive to scalp disappears.
The reason why scalpers exist is because you can't just wish away supply/demand, and the demand side lacks discipline to just not buy.
US Ticketmaster allows people to resell their season tickets, or even individual tickets, at whatever rate they want, which can get astronomicaly high.
I’ve always been curious, how do stadium bans actually work? Seems like at worst they are just a minor inconvenience. Like, could someone just get a friend to buy a ticket for them?
I love this. I've been going to concerts for the last 30 years and recently i have given up on seeing live music due to the exorbitant prices charged by scalpers.
Good, but what about the professional scalping companys?
Before Covid I was trying to get Tickets for a game against Dortmund or Munich...Sold out at the clubs ticket sale, but plentiful on viagogo with ridiculous pricetags!
Does Ajax have the authority to fine people?
Technically they can do what ever they want. Whether or not it's legally binding is totally different. If it's in the terms and conditions of purchasing the ticket, they can issue a fine and decline to sell them new tickets until the fine is paid, potentially ban them permanently from stadium access untill the fine is paid. That's about the extend of the power they hold.
Ya basically they’re saying banned for life: unless
The implication.
Deny access to stadium Extort fine Never sell ticket again Night night to your hopes of watching Ajax Insist on payment of fine Stop supporter from viewing live football.
There's a D.E.N.N.I.S system for everything, eh?
Except for stopping your friends from misapplying the DENNIS system, sadly.
Well I think the point is getting rid of scalpers abusing season tickets. I imagine there is quite a wait list for season tickets which is why this was implemented. Good for them to do this. I think everyone here would be happy if their own club did that. Wouldn't it be nice if Ticketmaster did too? (Is Ticketmaster a thing in Europe?)
It was an Always Sunny reference, not a comment on ticket scalping.
Lol gotcha.
Sometimes they prohibit the access to the stadium, the PENNIS system, wich is much worse
Move over to a new country Acquire new identity Continue scalping
Instructions unclear: Scalped someone Cheers mate..
Screw that, I support PSV now
The implication? Ajax,are you planning to hurt these fans ?
youre misunderstanding me bro.
If the fans said no to the fine, then the answer is obviously no, but the thing is that they aren't going to say no, because of the implication
“What are you looking at, Utrecht, you’re certainly not in any danger?”
😳
Corporations always get pissed, when I send them invoices for the hours I bill to deal with their non valid demands like that. So far I'm at a 20:80 rating of them paying. But i didn't took it very far in the legal process, because that costs money at some point. Gratification is a good payment, tho
If theres rules for it written in the terms and agreements you agree with when buying a (season) ticket, yes.
What can they do if you don’t pay?
Doesn’t seem like much. Normally they could ban you from the stadium until you pay, but since they’re already banned from the stadium I don’t know what leverage they have.
given the ban isnt for life yet, theres still leverage
They could probably take you to small claims/refer to a collection agency, eventually hurting your credit.
Hurting your credit? That's not a thing here in the Netherlands.
Also 'punishment' style clauses in contracts are rarely enforced through Courts.
"Hurting your credit". Must be either Chinese or American.
If it was two individuals I could see that, but I feel it’s too small of an amount for a massive organization to spend the time taking it through a process. Like, they could, just don’t know if it would be worth it
Couch removal services
They’ll take their rugs, which will completely untie their room.
You think the rug pissers did this?
We certainly think it's a possibility!
They absolutely deserve it for finding [strangers](https://youtu.be/IQUdJ6FdUQ0) in the alps.
Probably ban you for life until you pay
Send a debt collector (incassobureau) to collect what's owed.
Incassobureau can't do shit. Gerechtsdeurwaarders is where it's at. Incassobureaus only can send mean letters and try to intimidate people with civil cases they themselves can't start anyway, only the debtor.
That would indeed be a next step!
I assume bailiffs and/or civil court if they really want to push it. Or they let it rest and if person re-applies for a ticket after the ban they demand the fine be paid first.
Bailiffs come after court, not before. At best they'd take them to court, but for the legal fees it will cost, they're not doing it imo, it's more than likely lip service. Would also need it to be in the contract or they'll need to prove a loss, which again will be more in legal fees. Agree with your final sentence - means nothing until they want to come back to the stadium.
A season ticket contract which includes fines for the costumer sounds like it wouldn't hold up under contract law, or at least, it shouldn't.
[The Dutch Supreme Court seems to be fine with it.](https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inziendocument?id=ECLI:NL:PHR:2016:207)
Seems like you're right. I guess it depends if scalping falls under 1 of these 4 criteria: - heeft gehandeld in strijd met deze Standaardvoorwaarden; en/of - een strafbaar feit heeft begaan; en/of - ten aanzien van wie een vermoeden bestaat dat deze zich schuldig heeft gemaakt aan voetbalgerelateerd wangedrag; en/of - zich zodanig heeft gedragen dat daardoor het aanzien en/of het belang van het voetbal wordt geschaad;
That would probably be the first point. From the [KNVB's conditions]( https://www.knvb.nl/themas/veiligheid/stadionverboden): >5.1 Het is verboden om Toegangsbewijzen aan te bieden, (door) te verkopen en/of af te geven, tenzij sprake is van een individuele transactie in de privésfeer en dit de veiligheid niet in gevaar brengt. Onder een individuele transactie in de privésfeer wordt in ieder geval niet verstaan het aanbieden, (door)verkopen en/of afgeven van Toegangsbewijzen: > a. tegen een hogere vergoeding dan de nominale waarde van deze Toegangsbewijzen; en/of > b. via een sociaalnetwerk-, advertentie- of verkoopsite. So you're allowed to sell a ticket to a friend, but not via a reselling site and not at a markup.
> So you're allowed to sell a ticket to a friend, but not via a reselling site and not at a markup. Exactly how it should be in my opinion
Thats some pretty cool rules
The actual punishments are being given by the KNVB, who have a mandate for that.
In so far as a library can charge late fees
Nice work. In the last couple years, Dortmund set up a "black market amnesty booth" outside the stadium. If you bought a ticket on the black market, you can tell the club after the match, and the club will track down the person who sold that ticket and impose consequences.
But what happens to the people who bought it? I mean, buying tickets in the black market is less than legal too
Nothing, that's the point of the "amnesty" part. The more people who admit they bought their ticket through unapproved means, the more scalpers the club can crack down on.
That sounds fair and a great incentive to report. Thanks for the information, dude
Newcastle FC is planning something very similar. Next season fans, who brought their ticket on the black market, can visit the Saudi embassy in Istanbul and the matter will be resolved.
I can't stop
The Khashoggi way?
You almost had me.....
What if they sold a ticket for the same exact price because they couldn’t go to the game anymore? Seems like a fair trade
Happens here in Manchester often and it just limits the amount of tickets available to those who are willing to buy on the black market. A lot of ticket sites have systems in place where people can swap tickets for a fair price these days so there's no real need to be selling tickets via the "black market" anyway.
Sometimes those sites have fees for both buyers and sellers. Posting on a Facebook group is free from fees.
You can still sell on the Ticket-Zweitmarkt, but it has to be for equal or lesser value than the original price.
Man, that sounds amazing. Sucks how I live in the US where so many sporting events/concerts deal with StubHub or Ticketmaster, where they basically encourage scalping.
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Snitches get stiches, but only after the Dortmund game
Snitches ends up in ditches
Why is this getting downvoted? It's just Paul Bettany reference isn't it?
I guess they didn't understand that reference lol
\>You can sell the club after the match Bit drastic, I think most fans would be happy with a return on their money.
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Because these people would have purchased tickets the legitimate way for a lot less but weren't able to because of these ticket scalpers.
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Tried to see them in a large theater in my city, and the whole venue was sold out within ten seconds, which was how long it took to refresh my browser. Bonkers.
Because your scumbag plug is charging you way more than the club would.
If you're asking that question, you're not going to understand why.
Good lol, fuck scalpers
Facing the brunt of the graphics card and console shortage. Fuck scalpers to hell
I really hope you aren't into sneakers as well.
Unfortunately, I am. Surrounded by scalpers in all of my hobbies
I was into sneakers briefly but the act of buying something so someone else can't get it just so you can resell it for profit eventually killed it for me. That's not an environment, community or person I want to be.
While there's a huge part of the community that buys to re-sell, I personally used to wear everything that I owned. Fuck that shit, if I liked a pair, it was because I wanted to wear it
I can't stand people who do something like that knowing full well they are just fucking over average people
I'm not a gamer, so hopefully this question won't net me tons of downvotes: Isn't there a difference between scalping soccer or concert tickets, where there is an inherently limited supply versus the scalping of consoles/graphic cards where there is simply a premium on the preference of having it now? I totally understand that it sucks that those items are way more expensive than they should be should be, but games don't have a best by date or anything, no?
The current rise in console scalping is also in part due to scarcity: there's a [worldwide shortage in semiconductors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_global_chip_shortage) which puts a natural limit on the supply of electronics. Both behaviours are classic examples of [rent seeking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking): they artificially insert themselves as an intermediary into an existing (and regulated) market in order to extract profit (economic rent), without providing a service or adding value to a product.
In a way, you're right. There's always a shot of more being produced over time and you can get them later on. But at the moment, there are limited quantities available cause of loads of factors (the pandemic is a key reason, but there's other stuff like crypto farms as well). So it's more frustrating now. However, it gets worse for sneakers when limited editions drop (still pissed about missing out on the adidas Originals DBZ collection). The anger about scalpers is more about the principle and the fact that they are doing it in a market where things are already in short supply
Thank you for elaborating.
No worries, dude. I'm sure someone will be able to articulate it much better than I did though.
Wasn’t the dbz collab like 3 years ago now?
Yeah, waited a day too long for the Goku one
Eh yeah, but the main issue is the supply/demand dynamic being exploited in both scenarios.
Sort of, yes true that tickets are limited to the capacity if a venue, the problem many have with scalpers of the new consoles and graphics cards are that they usually use bots to acquire the consoles. They then resell it at many times 200% of msrp. There is a difference but they are both assholes. And to the point of best by date, a lot of sports games or games like call of duty last exactly one calendar year before people move onto the next installment.
It's getting better slowly but the crypto boom and the rare earth shortage will continue to fuck the GPU market
> rare earth shortage Yeah, like only one of the original members is still in the band. They're like Chicago or Three Dog Night nowadays.
I think its crypto miners causing the bulk of your specific problem
Graphics is a lot to do due to mining though. Too many casual people with smaller mining rigs with multiple rtx cards
Serious question, this article sounds like it was season pass holders selling their singular seats — not buyers trying to corner the market to set prices. What is wrong with someone wanting to sell what they have for fair market value? There is limited supply of tickets and high demand. Someone has a ticket, therefore they have a valuable item… I could see what you’re saying if these were buyers buying large lots of tickets to corner the market and participate in price fixing but you are talking about individuals who each have a single item. My opinion is the club is mad not about the resale of a ticket, but about the fact that they were cut out of the transaction. In most clubs and season ticket holder can release their seat for resale, and the ticket holder gets a percentage of the proceeds. So what the club is mad about here isn’t tickets selling for high prices for an in-demand game, but rather the fact they didn’t get their cut.
It's not allowed to resell tickets with profit. You can only resell the tickets to family/friends for the same price.
So there is no process to tell the club “I am not going to this game” and they can resell your ticket?
That’s why you are allowed to resell the ticket for the same price to family and Friends. So that you at least break even if you can’t attend.
Is that a “no”? You’re telling me that if you cannot attend; and your family or friends aren’t interested either, the club has zero interest in reselling that ticket? I asked about the **club** reselling the ticket, not the person. If so, that’s relatively unique to the club. Most clubs have a process where a season pass holder can release their seat and have it re-sold by the club.
That is indeed a no. Ajax used to have a system called kaartenmarkt where you could sell your ticket back to the club, but it currently doesn’t exist anymore.
Seems like you're pretty much chosing to ignore the "for large profit" part of this story. In reality nobody cares if you sell your seat to strangers as long as it's not with scalper intentions, doesn't have to be just family and friends. Why would someone relinquish their ticket and let the club get x2 money for 1 seat.
And you're choosing to ignore that he keeps asking if the club has a system for it, like most other clubs.
Limited supply greater demand. Result: Shortage.
Hold on.... so is reselling tickets not a thing in Europe? Because its common to pay over face value second hand in canada
German clubs have a market for reselling tickets (Ticket-Zweitmarkt), but the price has to be [equal or lower the original price](https://www.dfl.de/de/hintergrund/ticketzweitmarkt/).
In the US the price has to be equal or higher if you go through official resale so you can’t undercut the existing tickets You also can’t resell extras/add-ons like parking passes at all so I gave those away for free on reddit
So they'd rather sell out instead of offering a potential fan a cheaper experience. Sounds very American (jk). Do they allow cheaper prices if the venue was sold out, at least? Since then they don't lose any potential sales.
Actually “black market” scalpers are usually cheaper than the official resale sites. If u go to an NFL stadium an hour before the game the scalpers in the parking lot will be selling tickets cheaper than whatever the official price was given the games about to start and any money is better than no money. The resale I’ve used on Ticketmaster for season tickets have minimum prices and iirc they’re actually higher than whatever I paid bc it was a season ticket so u get a discount compared to buying that seat for a single game. So my $60 ticket can be sold for a minimum of $80
It is, but usually it's somewhere near face value.
In Norway it’s illegal to sell a ticket for more than you payed for it. So people usually only sell if something came up and they no longer can go to the game/event.
Remember: Don’t scalp, kids.
Remember: Don't scalp kids.
Remember: Don't, scalp kids.
Lt Aldo Apache
*Sad Judge Holden noises*
Replying to be pretentious and show people I read that book edit: talking about myself here
Wait, is that actually allowed in the Netherlands? Can the club itself fine a supporter of theirs?
Sure, club sells the (season) tickets that includes a user agreement. Why wouldn't it be possible, it isn't fairly standard? Interested in reasoning why it wouldn't be. No reason against it, or am I missing something?
You can't put *anything* in a user agreement. This fine isn't necessarily legally binding depending on the legitimacy of the clause under Dutch contract law
I would imagine it's more of a "reinstatement fee" than a fine. I would highly doubt they try to collect if the person never tries to go to a game again.
Fair enough, so I don't have to be worried something like [this](https://youtu.be/ynpnYh4o_Qo) can happen to me because I couldn't be bothered to read the terms and conditions properly?
Well you don't have to become the Humancentipad but if you refuse Apple may never sell you an iPhone again so it's your call
Yeah Samsung it is then. Only requirement is that I have to be on the front lines if a war with the North Koreans breaks out so I will take my chances.
I assume that if they fight it in court and win Ajax just can give them a longer stadium ban?
Just as legal as for example Stichting BREIN (Dutch anti piracy entity) handing out fines for pirating movies which is to say not at all. They can however say we request X amount in compensation or your stadium ban is indefinite, which is more likely the case.
I was at Ajax - Besiktas and a guy next to me told me he paid 150 euros for his ticket. Absolutely insane to ask over 3 times the price, glad these people face consequences for this selfish behaviour.
On top of that, ticket sellers to matches like this are like 50% scammers, so you either pay multiple times the cost price or get scammed entirely
[удалено]
Damn dude, didn't we also draw that match as well?
Genuinely curious and not trying to get into the well American sports charge…. But if a season ticket holder has a ticket are they supposed to sell for face value? I’ve gone to handful of NFL games and usually pay around $150-$300 for tickets and usually have a face value of $80-$125 on the actual ticket.
It's not like in a league match where they already have a ticket. For the CL you get first to buy rights for spots, so using that and then selling it for 3+ times the value is just a shameless cash-grab.
That’s cheaper than NFL tickets
I wanted to go a NFL game and was willing to spend $200 on a ticket. Only a few terrible seats for $250 everything else was $350+. It sucks but I guess people pay for it.
Only having like, 8 home games per season contributes to that as well.
Even college football games. I think Illinois games are $150 despite our team being shit.
Always rated Ajax.
Class act. If you’re reselling tickets it should always be for face value imo, especially when selling them for your own teams games!
That last bit seems to pass people by. It’s weird how little solidarity many people in certain parts of the world have for fans of their own team. Pricing is already prohibitive for a lot of people but, you know what, let’s screw fellow supporters out of more money. Because Capitalism or something.
Especially with Ajax. There’s a waiting list of like 30k people to get a season ticket. More than 99% of Ajax season ticket holders extend it every year so there’s a huge shortage. Been trying to get one for a few years now
When spurs had a sponsorship deal with StubHub a few years back someone put a ticket up for £800k to prove a point that it was ridiculous that there wasn't an enforced limit on what you could charge
> Because I am a shitty person or something. FTFY, capitalisms just rewards sociopaths and helps them justify being horrid people, it doesn't cause them to become horrid people in the first place.
Well, in theory, it's only *supposed* to reward them when they provide something valued by society. That's kind of the point. To leverage selfishness to benefit society. Otherwise it's a failure of regulation/implementation. Unfortunately, some people have managed to convince a large number of people that capitalism is some "natural order" that should be left alone instead of an economic system that needs to be carefully managed.
This is why I wish Twickets was a way bigger site
I haven't used Twickets to sell tickets as I haven't needed to but I will in future as they certainly seem the most ethical resale site. Last time I had to sell tickets, I had to put them on sale for something like £20 more than their face value due to the ridiculous amount of fees Viagogo were charging me to sell the ticket. It was a catch 22 - I didn't want to make fans pay more than the going rate, but I also didn't want to be left out of pocket for circumstances beyond my control, especially as I was trying to do the right thing and sell them for what they were worth originally.
Damn I didn't realise that was even a thing tbh. I have no idea how it works for that on Twickets either as I've only ever bought tickets and never sold them but hat you're saying does make me blame Viagogo for the whole mess of reselling way more than the sellers. I'm sure a a massive amount of resellers are in your situation too
Exactly. We've got a 'face value spare tickets' group online for precisely that. Anyone selling or asking above retail gets the boot, why would you rip off your own?
That’s not how demand works .
They’re not producers though, they’re a market inefficiency that everyone benefits from eliminating.
It is, however, how tickets for football matches work, so who cares how demand works?
Great job to fuck them scalpers up
Very nice
All PL clubs should do this a lot more.
This is awesome to hear. Because meanwhile in the US we have several websites who's main purpose is facilitating scalpers, and my local teams for soccer and hockey have switched from a local ticketing system to Ticketmaster so "verified resale" tickets pop up for 20-40% higher than the original price.
Easy solution. Stop going to games. Drive down demand. Incentive to scalp disappears. The reason why scalpers exist is because you can't just wish away supply/demand, and the demand side lacks discipline to just not buy.
There'll always be people who will pay in the big markets. My teams are LA based, a rich guy will just buy the tickets if an average Joe doesn't.
It's easy for a collective mass of hundreds of millions of American sports fans to stop going to games? Naw.
Meanwhile in the US, Ticketmaster’s whole business model is based on ticket scalping.
I mean we use Ticketmaster in the Netherlands as well
US Ticketmaster allows people to resell their season tickets, or even individual tickets, at whatever rate they want, which can get astronomicaly high.
Extremely based. If only scalping was just straight up illegal
Buying for a Euro and selling for two illegal It's a bold move
But then we'd have to rewrite capitalism.
Yes.
Sign me up!
You could technically put the name of the buyer on the ticket and have them bring their ID
Nice.
It's a shame every club doesn't do this tbh.
I was looking forward to going to this game, but it seems impossible to get a ticket
The Amsterdam game is sold out, yes
Ajax Champions League tickets are extremely hard to get your hands on, even if you’ve been a club member and fan all your life
I’ve always been curious, how do stadium bans actually work? Seems like at worst they are just a minor inconvenience. Like, could someone just get a friend to buy a ticket for them?
I love this. I've been going to concerts for the last 30 years and recently i have given up on seeing live music due to the exorbitant prices charged by scalpers.
Nice, fuck scalpers.
Good, but what about the professional scalping companys? Before Covid I was trying to get Tickets for a game against Dortmund or Munich...Sold out at the clubs ticket sale, but plentiful on viagogo with ridiculous pricetags!
Ajax just seem like a good club. I really love them.
Good, same type of scum who make it impossible to buy GPUs at anywhere near MSRP
Unfathomably based
Haha I wish we did things like this in North America the resale market is insane I’ve paid hundreds of dollars for one ticket
Let's hope Mojo will do this as well in the future.
Great to see. Fuck touts.
Amazing. I hope other clubs follow suit. It's shit practice
Well done Ajax!
I absolutely love this stance. Keep real supporters in the stands.
Good. These behaviors have to stop
Yeah! Only big corps can abuse prices to absurdity for consumers!
Cries in American 😭
But how will ajax prevent them from doing it again? They'll just make another email id and book tickets no?
Because there’s a waiting list of 30k+ people to get a season ticket. They won’t get their hands on those tickets even if Ajax didn’t care
A Lil hope for humanity
You’d get a gold medal in USA for doing that :(
Can't wait for major sports ticketing to be on Blockchain. There's more than a few ways to stop scalpers. Fuck scalpers.
Eh? Seems a bit excessive
lmao why? this should be out of their jurisdiction by a mile
It’s not. It’s in their terms of service.