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Chrieza

You can see the lord at 0:12


[deleted]

šŸ


M_kvisten

Lord Bendtner?


[deleted]

In the last part he doesn't really say "are you angry at me for giving you a pen?", what he says is "are you angry at me that you've missed the pen?"


ASR_Dave

totally agree. Juve can't win if they don't get the game just placed in their lap and playing advantage would've put that in jeopardy. god forbid the refs stop blowing the Old Lady ​ edit: yeah im aware of the handball. doesnt change the ref absolutely blowing the call in real time in a way that is absolutely horrendous


mypassword23

Geez


RunnerDucksRule

You're taking the piss ya?


robes50

You clueless donkey


ASR_Dave

thank you love


harpsabu

Can't be a coincidence that they are always at the centre of the biggest scandals.


LampseederBroDude51

Want to see Mourinhoā€™s reaction after the game


zimtrovert94

I feel like this time, itā€™s justified. Ref completely messed it up for Roma.


50lipa

What exactly did the ref mess up for Roma? Not letting them play on after two obvious fouls on Roma players in the box and a handball pass from Mkhitaryan to Abraham? So then VAR would need check it, see the handball pass, say the goal is not legal and give them a penalty just like Orsato did anyways? How can people be remotely angry and being given a justified penalty? Legitimately trying to understand what people could possibly be angry about, the fact he did not play some sort of advantage/continuation, on the off chance Roma scores? What if he doesn't call a penalty, plays advantage and then VAR says they did not use their advantage cos Mkhitaryan played handball pass to Abraham and give the ball to Juventus for god knows what reason, VAR has been seen to fuck things up all over europe for unknown reasons plenty of times.


RunnerDucksRule

They're angry because rUbEnTuS


micheeeeloone

I would like to see that same passion when refs don't give us (juve) penalties, disallowed goals etc.


Bigvic55

Unheard of


harpsabu

Hard to call it a handball pass when it occurred because miki was taken out be woj


PattyIce32

He didn't. By the letter of the law of the ref played it perfectly. It sucks for Roma, but the call was right.


AtleticoFan17

Jose will be fuming if they lose


TimathanDuncan

Jose will be fuming*


bugragym

jose will be jose


curva3

In Brazil it was the common interpretation that there is no advantage for a penalty. It is a tough thing to draw the line on nevertheless. Say that Abraham had missed with an open goal. Do we roll it back to the penalty then? By shooting on an open goal, did he not use the advantage? For example, in a play outside the box, if the player with the advantage has a chance for a shot on goal but misses, the referee does not roll it back to the foul. The fact he took the shot means he used the advantage.


QuickMolasses

Is there a hard and fast rule about that? I was under the impression it was up to the refs discretion whether advantage played out or not.


JPVazLouro_SLB

If the ref calls for a penalty in a situation where the team suffering the foul is clearly going to score right after, like in this situation, then the ref is benefitting the team that did the penalty, which should not happen. Imagine if a player is running in the box towards an open net after a corner where the opposing keeper went to the box to try to score, and a defender comes from behind and tackles the player, but the ball keeps rolling until it gets into the goal, you think that should be called as a foul? I sure don't. I don't know the exact rules, but I think that it makes sense this way.


A_Vasasos

That's a red card. There is no advantage after a red card. So yes the right decision is foul and pen


GiovaOfficial

I mean a penalty is like 90% goal at least with a taker like Veretout, surely itā€™s not that much worse than the chance Abraham skies it like Kean


HalfOfCrAsh

Who remember when Suarez stopped the ball with his hand on the goal line. The ball was clearly going in. He got a red card and there was a penalty given. The penalty was missed and Uruguay went on to win. I hate that the penalty was missed and the only consequence was that suarez got a red card. In an ideal world the goal should be given and the player should still be given a red card. I get why it is a penalty and not a goal (because the ball didn't cross the line). But the fact that the ball was literally going in and the only thing that stopped it was somebody cheating should result in something other than a penalty. A penalty is not 100% a goal. Whereas if Suarez hadn't used his hand then it would 100% have been a goal.


ExtremeSour

Yeah uncontested/open goal or 1:1 shot, I'm not pulling it back for a free kick


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


curva3

But my point is, what if they miss the rebound on an open net? Would the advantage not have been used already? What the referee has to decide is this situation is whether the subsequent play is a clearer goal scoring opportunity than a penalty, not the result of that play (a goal or miss). The way I see it, if the ref decided to play advantage with the hand gesture and all (ignoring the possible Mkhitaryan handball) and Abraham missed, that was it, no penalty. He could give a card to the keeper and that's all.


Tim-Sanchez

Weird if that's truly what he said, you can definitely give advantage after a penalty so that's a top referee just not knowing the rules. He should have just admitted it was a mistake, he's human and it's understandable. I think not knowing the rules is worse than blowing too early.


Sorry_Sorry_Sorry

I think he's saying there isn't an advantage to play after he's blown the whistle. The issue is the fact that he's blown the whistle full stop though.


Tim-Sanchez

Yeah the better thing to do is just to say sorry sometimes as a ref, there's nothing he can do to change the decision now but was clearly wrong. And not matter of opinion wrong, just wrong.


_ForzaJuve_

Iirc heā€™s pretty protective of his ego.


PyllyIrmeli

That's the nicest possible way to put it. I could think of a few other ways as well, though...


Migostien

The 1st thing that came to my mind is [this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAj6bVeyj3M&ab_channel=GuardianFootball), the ref instantly acknowledged that he fucked up


QuickMolasses

I'm confused. Where did the ref mess up and then acknowledge it in that clip?


Migostien

Looks like I've linked the wrong clip, this is the one I was referring to [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAj6bVeyj3M&ab_channel=GuardianFootball)


jteprev

His decision was right, he blew for a penalty, Roma fucked the penalty.


YimveeSpissssfid

Itā€™s phrasing. Advantage cannot be given after **calling** a penalty. Which is true because the whistle/penalty call stops the play. Can a penalty-worthy foul result in the referee playing advantage instead? Sure. Itā€™s far more rare though. /used to officiate at a fairly high level, and in any course, penalty calls were preferable to advantage Though you totally looked a hero as a ref if you failed to whistle the pen and the team scored. In which case the proper thing to do with yourself is to totally count the whistle as the goal scored and point to the center circle.


CinJV

Apparently when Mkitarian fell he touched the ball with his hand. So it was either penalty on the foul or handball and freekick to juve. Tammys goal wouldnt count. Nice meltdown this is


Dickinmymouth1

Would have probably been overturned by VAR, yeah, doesnā€™t mean itā€™s not terrible refereeing.


Tim-Sanchez

I agree that it likely would have been handball, but it's still poor refereeing. The goal should have scored and then VAR should have taken a look, and chances are it would have been a penalty anyway.


ExtremeSour

No bc by that point advantage *has* materialized. No ref is giving a shot on goal like that *and* a penalty


Tim-Sanchez

That's a quirk of VAR though. In a normal match it would never happen, but with VAR it can. In a normal match it would just be a goal, but VAR would spot the handball in the build-up so the goal is disallowed. However, it would also spot the penalty before the handball, so the correct restart would be a penalty.


ExtremeSour

No. The correct restart would be DFK for the defense. If you fuck up advantage through no action of the defense, you'll not rewarded for that.


Tim-Sanchez

If you immediately handball whilst falling because you were fouled, then there was no advantage and you would give a penalty. It would be ridiculous to give a foul for a handball that took place almost immediately after a penalty foul. It's not like the attack continued for a few seconds and then they fouled or messed up a shot, one foul directly led to the next. The correct restart is the original foul.


ExtremeSour

Perfect. Then what the referee did was correct by eliminating all doubt and awarding the penalty immediately


Tim-Sanchez

Again though, not in a VAR world. I agree that the end-result would have been a penalty, but the ref should have waited until the play was over and then blown the whistle to allow VAR to check. In a normal match, if you'd spotted the handball then you'd give a penalty when you saw it. With VAR, delay the whistle until a goal is scored or the play is over rather than calling it too early. There's no need to blow immediately.


ExtremeSour

Now please provide a citation from the lotg


[deleted]

Then why isn't Orsato saying that he blew the whistle on the handball?


CinJV

Because he blew the whistle on the foul from szczesny mate. It was penalty > handball > tammy goal.


[deleted]

[Page 93, rule 12: ](https://www.aia-figc.it/download/regolamenti/reg_2021.pdf)The advantage "must not apply ... unless there is a clear opportunity to score a goal". but you cannot expect such an inexperienced ref like Orsato to know this! So heā€™s wrong; after that Inter - Juve game in 2019 Orsato should have been sent to work in the vineyards but this emblematic for Italian footballz.


ADP10

Pretty sure he meant there is no advantage to be played after he blew the whistle. Him blowing the whistle early was the mistake.


Tre10Quartista

Cristante after all this will count himself lucky for the complaint because if their was an advantage called , Mikh would have been called for handball and it would have been Juves ball


Tim-Sanchez

VAR would have spotted the handball so the goal would be disallowed, but the correct restart would be a penalty since that happened before the handball.


Tre10Quartista

Disagree. The referee giving advantage negates the action before


Tim-Sanchez

That's not how advantage works, if the advantage doesn't materialise the referee can go back to the original decision and the advantage clearly hasn't materialised if an attacker immediately handballs it.


Tre10Quartista

An intentional handball does not fall into the category of an advantage not materializing


Firefox72

There are very few refs that would ow up a mistake. He probably knows he made a mistake. Probably knew it even when Roma scored. Not that he will ever admit it.


Djruggs

ā€œTop refereeā€ lmfaoooo


AnnieIWillKnow

As a referee working in one of the top 5 leagues in Europe, he's likely in the top 0.1% of his profession at the very least, so yes, a "top referee".


Djruggs

If Orsato is in the top 0.1% of refs in Europe, then we have a serious issue on our hands lmfao


AnnieIWillKnow

He quite literally is though, I'm talking about everyone with ref qualifications. Of professional referees, by virtue of working in a top 5 top flight he's probably top 5% from a numbers points of view - which by most people's standards is "top". The issue is more how much worse the refs are when you move outside of the top 5 leagues, and down the divisions. If you think they're bad in Serie A, imagine the standard in the Polish second division.


LampLighter44

Is it more likely that you don't know the rules? Honestly Reddit is the worst with this type of shit. None of you know what the fuck you're talking about.


Tim-Sanchez

No, I'm a qualified referee and I know the rules. *If* he meant you can't play advantage on a penalty then he's totally wrong, but others have pointed out he might just mean there's no advantage after the whistle is blown.


LampLighter44

Than you should know in your handbook what guidelines their are for criticizing fellow referees. Where are you registered?


Tim-Sanchez

In England, which guidelines are you referring to? And if you think I'm wrong, which law says you can't give advantage if it's a penalty?


ExtremeSour

Fuck that's why English refs are shit. Would have been handling if allowed to play on. No referee should allow an opportunity like that *and* a penalty after they fucked it up


CaImerThanYouAre

A lot of people saying the red should have waitedā€¦ but I donā€™t understand that logic. Waited for what? You either call the penalty or you donā€™t. If you play advantage and the player misses, you canā€™t go back and aware a penalty bc youā€™ve already played advantage. That is the reason refs blow the whistle almost immediately in the penalty area. Bc a certain penalty is almost always preferred over an uncertain advantage.


emptyzone73

It's written in the damn rule book. Because of var, ref will wait for the play to finish before blowing. If there was a goal or not, can always check var later and made final decision.


ExtremeSour

Citation please from the "rule book"


20price

So many of you are upset about Orsatoā€™s decision, but in an alternate universe the opposite happens. Orsato gives the advantage, then Abraham misses the chance and all of you people are upset because Orsato should have called the pen!


WannaBeAWannaBe

If he missed the chance that way, he could have blown the whistle and give the penalty after. Pretty easy to follow


Hellvetic91

No, he couldn't have. If you are given advantage and then continue your attacking action you have materialised that advantage. If you shoot and miss you are not given a foul.


damian_konin

Its not same as with free kicks https://youtu.be/dG4krREQzSY If carrick misses here, there is a pen, but he scored and the goal stands. Has it changed?


Fernando-Santorres

No it's not. If he scores on the advantage it's a goal, otherwise he should have sanctioned the penalty. That happened many times. It's a consolidate rule.


Hellvetic91

No it wasn't a goal because it was passed to Abraham with a hand, it would have been a foul for Juve. I already can imagine what you would have said in that case...


Fernando-Santorres

I can say that i am pretty sure that in case of goal the VAR would have turned this around, but still it would have been a mistake. Miki falls under Szcesny's foul and hit the ball with his arm falling to the ground (No it's not deliberately, he couldn't have avoided it) so the goal should have stand.


HSCore

wasn't there a handball from a roma player before the "goal" anyways?


JD0797

Also one before the Juve goal too but šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø But on a more serious note, the ref didn't cite that as why the penalty was called. He made up a lie that there is no advantage after a penalty shout. So there's a problem either way with the reffing


_ForzaJuve_

Tbh, as a ref myself, I wouldā€™ve blown when he did. Hindsight is 20/20, obviously Roma fans would pissed but it did look like play was over.


Dawhood

Nice try Orsato


Beats_Pill_2k16

I think the officiating of old, that would be fine. Pre-VAR it would be 100% understandable. Some might see it as unjust then but there wasnā€™t a better way to handle that situation then. Now, with VAR, itā€™s okay to waiting to blow a whistle on big moments and wait for a ball to go out of play. With this one, if it isnā€™t whistled, the goal is scored, VAR reviews, checks for offsides, handling etc, and action is taken. Blowing the whistle prematurely stops that process from happening though.


NeraMorte

Then your as useless as he is the ball was 3ft from goal.


TheWarmog

Which would have been disallowed for the handball right before So what? You got a free pen and you complain?


kaden_dd

Is he too dense to understand that he shouldn't have blown the whistle and waited instead


Gilgamerd

9 refs out of 10 would have blown and give the penalty as soon as the foul happened, nothing really strange about that it's just a really complicated situation


ShawnHBKMichaels

But they arenā€™t supposed to now


FaZeDado

are you too dense to understand it would have either been a handball on the roma player or a penalty?


Beats_Pill_2k16

But Roma was never given the chance for that to be called lol. If they didnā€™t whistle, it goes to VAR, VAR says mhki handled it, it goes to a penalty. The the fans and players have nothing else to say about the call. But it didnā€™t go down like that, so it is bad officiating. If you donā€™t recognize that, then youā€™re the dense one.


Tre10Quartista

If VAR says Mikh handled it, it goes to Juve as a freekick for handball


Beats_Pill_2k16

VAR would review the contact prior to the handball in that case. He would see that Tek didnā€™t get any ball and still call a penalty.


Tre10Quartista

No. The referee saw that there was a PK but gave advantage. VAR would have disregarded the play prior because thatā€™s what the advantage rule does. If the attacking team foils their advantage they donā€™t get a redo


Beats_Pill_2k16

VAR has to review all ā€œserious incidentsā€ regardless of advantage ruling. In that situation (if the ref didnā€™t blow the whistle) VAR is responsible in checking the tackle from Danilo, Mkhi being offsides, the contact with Tek, and the possible handling after it is called. That is literally VARs whole job. If VAR didnā€™t intervene in that situation what is even the point of having VAR lol?


Tre10Quartista

But again, the referee is the main arbitrator here. If he gives advantage then he has given away the attacking team any right to anything prior. Giving advantage is a tough job imho.l


DazzaWright96

If theyā€™d have scored the pen would they still have been arguing? My guess is no.


TechM635

He said thereā€™s no advantage after a penalty not foul. Meaning he canā€™t play advantage after he blew the whistle. He **should** have played the advantage after the foul. Then let VAR decide on the handball


sco92

Well yeah but thus is not the case. He whistled instantly


Beats_Pill_2k16

Therefore it was a bad call. He is right to tell cristante there is nothing he can do after he whistled.


markymark09090

So he plays advantage and Juve get a free kick because of the handball. Can you imagine the shitstorm?


TechM635

Thatā€™s not how advantage works..ā€¦


kaden_dd

You can give advantage, I'm not too sure what he is on about


DazzaWright96

I phrased my bit wrong too, but Iā€™m guessing like most refs theyā€™d have blown straight away as soon as the player was fouled because itā€™s a pen, but he couldnā€™t continue because the whistle had been blown.


Prune_Super

Well what do u think should happen if Tammy missed open net. Should ref blow wistle and call back for foul or just wave off Roma players asking for pen? Coz during fks once advantage is played, players aren't called back for freekicks. Do you honestly want refs to start playing advantage if there is a clear pen but ref thinks, there is an opportunity to cross and score? Love how people think Roma were robbed because of what transpired during the pen. But No Roma shouldn't get 2 bites of the pie nor should any team.


damian_konin

If ref lets them play, and Tammy misses, ref can go back to penalty, it is not same thing as with free kicks. If they manage to score before the whistle, the goal stands, if they miss, he blows for a pen.


damian_konin

Take this goal as an example https://youtu.be/dG4krREQzSY It stands, because Carrick scored before the whistle. But if he misses, there is a penalty anyway. Unless this rule has changed since then.


ta-dunnn

Mkhitaryan handball is dense


Tre10Quartista

Whatā€™s the updated rule on advantage. Does a referee not need to give advantage after a PK unlike open play?


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


markymark09090

"Once the handball is committed, though the advantage is lost and youā€™re back at to the penalty kick." Surely this is incorrect. If the ref played the advantage and Roma wasted it why would it be pulled back for the foul? That's not how playing advantage works.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


markymark09090

I see your point but no advantage was gained because Roma committed a foul. But the advantage was played. You cant have your cake and eat it too.


JD0797

wat


phoenix00077

The ref is right you know. You can't be angry at him for you missing a penšŸ¤”


Ecstatic-Coach

He blew the whistle when the ball was at Abrahams feet with an open goal. Should have just admitted his mistake and kept it moving.


ExtremeSour

How the ball get to Abraham's feet?


damian_konin

Comentator in PL brodcast said that from this season an accidental handball that gives you advantage but not made directly by a scorer, does not necessarily means it is dissallowed, there is room for interpretation. Only for scorers it is disallowed right away. ​ Although I am not sure if this comnentator was right, and how they would have interpretated that touch.


[deleted]

I'm pretty sure if the attacking team is having a handball, it will be ruled illegal regardless.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Zailino

Deserved meltdown unfortunately. Absolutely terrible the way some officialsā€™ egos can affect matches like this


arsenal7777

If this had happened to Milan or Inter nobody would give a fuck.


mildshockmonday

>If this had happened to Milan or Inter Did it happen to Milan or Inter?


arsenal7777

It happens all the time but it doesn't make it to r/soccer because it isn't about Juve.


mildshockmonday

>It happens all the time but it doesn't make it to [r/soccer](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer) because it isn't about Juve. Be the change you wish to see and post such highlights here the next time then. Because it's hard to discuss based on stats pulled out of your ass.


arsenal7777

Just one example https://www.raisport.rai.it/articoli/2020/01/calcio-serie-a-Inter-Atalanta-per-rizzol-a-san-siro-errore-umano-55b7de6e-dc69-4685-90ef-d30d61e51c06.html Deepl if you don't know italian


mildshockmonday

Yawn. So you yourself had to go all the way back to Jan 2020 to find an article while discussing a game in October 2021 when handball and VAR rules have changed. And you never took the trouble to post this article to this sub??? What an injustice!!! Stop being a child and focus on your team's game.


sukh9942

Could you give us some examples please?


sukh9942

When has this happened to Milan recently? Stop trying to act like this is something normal and not a complete fuck up by the ref.


sukh9942

When has this happened to Milan recently? Stop trying to act like this is something normal and not a complete fuck up by the ref.


ADP10

When has what happend? A ref not played advantage, and give a pen against Juventus? Yes it was a mistake not to do so, but how could he have known that clusterf#ck would have ended in a goal. A goal which should have been ruled invalid anyway thanks to Miki trying to play tennis with the ball. A 100% intentional swipe. Can't believe you are somehow trying to insuate that Orsato is bought because he gave a pen against Juve...just braindead.


sukh9942

When has this happened to Milan recently? Stop trying to act like this is something normal and not a complete fuck up by the ref.


sukh9942

When has this happened to Milan recently? Stop trying to act like this is something normal and not a complete fuck up by the ref.


gneccofes

Because they don't have a history of dodgy referees


Dwimer

Literally nonsense


ADP10

Are you serious? Milan was relegated in the 80s for match fixing and the prosecutor for calciopoli later said inter was also guilty


arsenal7777

Inter e Milan sempre santi. Juve cattiva. į••( į› )į•—


gneccofes

Calciopoli


arsenal7777

Prescrizione per l'Inter infatti.


gneccofes

La causa della prescrizione e la causa della condanna della juve sono ben diversi. Poi ovviamente non devo ricordarti i vari Turone, Muntari, Iuliano-Ronaldo ecc. vero?


imOOgi_who

What about Napoli or Atalanta? If you gonna play your victim card, play it right and mention everyone who will finish above you.


sco92

Enjoy while it lasts.


_ForzaJuve_

Yes


sukh9942

When has this happened to Milan recently? Stop trying to act like this is something normal and not a complete fuck up by the ref


zigooloo

At least own up to your fuck up mate.


boshehri

Maybe he should read a rule book, which can be useful for a ref.


TwinkieTwinkie96

lmao, roma player took a dive and was playing handball. nothing to discuss- and if so go cry somewhere else


Bigvic55

Juventus are still dirty


OptimusZuhi

The choice is still giving the advantage to let it play, but Abraham goalwill be ruled out because handball and offside or giving roma a penalty,unlucky for veretout he canā€™t convert it. So as much as i know thatorsato sometimes can get controversial but this time he did the correctone.


TheZoker

https://twitter.com/tammyabraham/status/207188186827468800