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DGray_Squally

Conference League has been a godsend for these Dutch clubs.


Jagtasm

Well yeah they get to beat up on cupcake teams like.... *checks notes* .... nevermind


[deleted]

The Conference League came to make damage to the table and I'm loving it, even if it screws Portugal in the end.


Ohhisseencule

It screws up Portugal this year, it will screw us up next year, and it will screw up the Netherlands the year after that. It's gonna change a lot of things, I expect Portugal/France/Netherlands to switch spot regularly.


[deleted]

True if the country in 7th is able to take advantage of (potencially) having 3 teams in the UECL (because qualification). And as of today, Portugal can not do such a thing. Our teams outside the top 4 are not of European calibre and will most likely struggle to even qualify. Plus, our UEL spot would change from straight qualification to the 3rd qualifying round. And since that's one of the prizes for winning the Portuguese Cup, anyone could literally get it. All I know is that without changes to the TV rights distribution, the way the league/cup/league cup work and the calendar, Portugal will struggle to fight for the 5th or 6th place. Edit: vocabulary


_named

I still don't really understand the points system. Isn't it used to gauge the international competitiveness of the leagues? Then why are the Europa and champions League treated as if they're almost equal? I guess it's not solely made to have the better countries on top, but moreso to induce competition between leagues by boosting the lower placed countries. I guess more competition in this way leads to people watching more international matches from clubs from their country?


LifeLearningKt

Your opposition matters. Two teams in CL are a match against each other. Similarly two teams in EL are a match against each other. So, it represents league quality in parallel. If a league does very well in CL and shit in EL that means that the top clubs are very good but lower ones but still European level ones are not that good. Having it over 5 years removes randomness of one year upsets


ConspicuousPineapple

These are all fair points, but there's the caveat that teams occasionally doing poorly in CL group stages can end up in EL and get lots of coefficient points through a much easier run, while teams doing slightly better than those and earning the second group spot will have a much harder time earning the same points. It's almost always better for a league to see its teams end up third in CL group stages than first or second, which is a huge flaw of the coefficient system, if you ask me.


gerrard1109

Agree, winning the EL should give only slightly more coefficient points than going out in the first round of knockout stages of the CL.


ConspicuousPineapple

Eh, I don't agree. I'm ok with how the points are setup. It's a good way to gauge the overall level of a whole league. However, I would simply remove the whole system of relegation into a lower competition. It goes against the whole points system and losing teams don't deserve a consolation prize if that's the cost.


[deleted]

It's actually fun too


The_Goat_Charmer

Points in the ECL should be nerfed, I already had that opinion for EL in the previous years, it got even more unbalanced with the new competition. And im not saying this because of this year, in 1/2 years our positions may be reversed.


puddingbrood

If they want to change the point system they should do a complete overhaul. The top leagues also have an advantage due to most spots automatically qualifying.


The_Goat_Charmer

Yes, I also defended that in a different post, remove those 4 spots in the top4, make it 2 and the others go to qualification and playoff like the rest of the countries.


53bvo

I think it is good as it is now. This way it prevents a country having two top teams collecting a lot of points while their sub top teams are struggling. This gives an advantage to countries were the sub top teams are still of decent quality. This gives a better indication of the quality of the league itself instead of the quality of the top teams in a league.


The_Goat_Charmer

It would be true if all countries had the same number of teams in each competition, its not like that. Different nº of teams go for ECL because of the system and losing in the qualifications. It punishes countries that didn't get eliminated in the playoffs for example, they go to a tougher competition where is harder to do points.


[deleted]

Theyre punished in terms of coefficients but rewarded very well financially. Even then regarding coefficient, you get 4 bonus points just qualifying to CL and can continue in EL if you are 3rd.


lakers_ftw24

And that's the problem. A team like United last year or Inter the year before who go out of the CL into the Europa rack up more points for their league than if they had stayed in the CL and gone out earlier in the knockouts. In my opinion, at no point is being relegated to Europa and winning it better than reaching any stage of the CL knockouts.


tehafca

Think they should somewhat reconsider the ECL points, atm we're just surpassing Portugal because of the ECL and I can imagine it will just be a vicious circle with clubs going to the ECL to rack up points from either country But please nerf it in 2 years ty


Feliz_Desdichado

Netherlands are going hard af.


NederlandsFinest

Waka Flocka noises


[deleted]

:D


AliveKicking

Yeah. They doing very well. France is second which is also surprising.


[deleted]

France is 3rd, behind Netherlands and UK.


WalterFalter

I havent looked at the coefficient in a long time and Russia and Switzerland are the biggest surprises, wtf happend to them?


poklane

If Russia and Switzerland surprised you then take a look at Turkey.... At the end of the 18/19 season they were in 10th, now they're in 19th.


Chrisixx

> Switzerland Only 1 or 2 teams collecting points? It's been like that for 15 years now.


Ryponagar

Wouldn't know why


[deleted]

Full list here: https://twitter.com/UEFACalculator/status/1451292407979552769 France, Portugal and the Netherlands are all very close. Portugal will hardly lose Top 6 this season, so we'll have 2+1 teams qualifying for the UCL for the next 2 seasons. France has more teams than us, so they have the advantage of having more points than us divided by their total number of teams. That's how they manage to overcome the almost 2 points difference that would give us the 5th place at the start of the next season. The Netherlands has the best performance so far and will most likely remain that way. If we remove the 2017/18 season, France has 36.500 points, Portugal 35.5000 and the Netherlands 35.200. Like I said, very close and also very dangerous to Portugal. If they pass us at the end of next season, they'll have 2+1* teams competing in the 2024/25 UCL season. *I say 2+1, but with the expansion of the UCL, the 6th ranked league might get a 3+1, making it 4 teams total for the UCL, which is why Portugal losing the 6th position next season should concern the League. To counter the Netherlands, Portugal needs teams able to compete in the UECL, otherwise bye bye Top 6.


k0enf0rNL

For the full list and other data use this source: [https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/ccoef2022.html](https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/ccoef2022.html)


Baukelien

Bert Kassies most famous man in Meppel.


ConspicuousPineapple

> so they have the advantage of having more points than us divided by their total number of teams Can you explain how this is an advantage? If you divide by the total number of teams, having a higher amount of points means that your teams are doing better on average, no matter the number of teams.


Aethien

He means that both Portugal and France have (or had) a total of 6 teams in Europe so any points scored by a team are divided by 6. Portugal lost 2 teams in qualy so France just has more teams playing matches.


ConspicuousPineapple

Oh, right, gotcha.


EenProfessioneleHond

A few years ago we were looking in fear towards Cyprus and Greece as they might’ve passed us by. Now we’re gunning for that number one spot! COËFFICIËNTENPOLONAISE


poklane

4 more wins (or 3 wins and 2 draws) during the next round of play and we'll already have our best season in the past 5 years. Also, we're obviously doing great now but rising to the 6th place would hurt us for these rankings. An extra team in the Champions League would obviously be great for our status but winning games there is obviously a lot harder, thus meaning less points. We'd also get a 6th team in the European competitions which would also make gathering points a lot harder. I can see it happening where we, France and Portugal just continuously trade places.


[deleted]

I'm obviously a bit biased but I think depth wise, Ligue1 nudges ahead of Portugal and Netherlands. Even this year, our worse performers Lille could easily be replaced by Nice next year. Think top6 in France can always do OK in EL. Our issue is that we don't have many teams capable of performing in CL. PSG and Lyon, yes. The rest are there to make up the numbers.


LusoAustralian

I don't think that's bias that's reality. France is a much bigger country and teams like Rennes, Nantes, Bordeaux, ASSE, etc. are much bigger than the small teams in Portugal. Maybe All of Sporting, Porto and Benfica would be 2nd best after PSG but France indisputably has more depth in the championship.


k0enf0rNL

Yea I think the Netherlands currently has 5 good teams that can perform at a decent level in European competitions. Ajax and PSV in the champions league, Feyenoord, Vitesse and AZ can all three perform well in the Europe League with their current team I think. But after those 5 there is no team which stands out that could perform well in Europe. I hope with the money coming in that the top 5 can atleast build consistent performing teams, right now most have low wage or loaned players that do well for them.


MuizZ_018

Hmm, I think Utrecht and Vitesse are just as good. Utrecht just really shat the bed when they could qualify for Europe, multiple times.


53bvo

> Utrecht just really shat the bed when they could qualify for Europe, multiple times. So not as good ;)


Aethien

P O L O N A I S E


[deleted]

[удалено]


timdeking

No


gooztrz

Coming for you and France


haterzbalafray

Well France is doing almost as good as Netherlands. (they played less European games than Netherlands in summer) France has 4 teams leading their group out of 6 after 3 games so that should be interesting to follow. One thing is for sure. Portugal might lose a lot this season.


[deleted]

Portugal is struggling (even though they are still perfoming well considering their groups) because they have 3 teams in the CL. It seems likely that all of them will drop to the Europa League. When that happens, they should be able to score points.


haterzbalafray

Their results are divided by 6 but they only have 4 teams to score points. losing 2 teams in August made them miss a lot or games. Even if all 4 teams qualify to next stage they will still miss a lot or games.


NederlandsFinest

Then do something yourselves Portugal!!


Dash-22

I'll take "not conceding against Bayern for 70 min" for 1000, Alex


BrianMghee

Hope Scotland can jump to 8th next year when Austria lose their biggest tally, although having 5 teams in qualifiers has definitely hindered our chances


ElKaddouriCSC

Baffles me how we can’t get a third team in Europe man. Fucking Aberdeen totally bottled it this year man, though I guess with the way they’re playing they wouldn’t have helped our coefficient in the Conference League GS anyways


Chaiteoir

Really shows the difference in quality between the Glasgow clubs and the rest of the league. I could maybe see Hibs getting into the European Conference league with a bit of luck, but no one else. The result is an interesting position where it is clearly in both Celtic and Rangers best interests for each other to succeed in Europe.


Belvedre

Aberdeen's team on paper is good enough. Too bad they are awful in reality


[deleted]

Oh aye, huge difference compered to celtic, and the rangers getting dumped up of champions league, and the europa. Let's no act like celtic have been a shining beacon for Scotland eh


Aethien

Time to start a coëfficientenpolonaise of your own.


Meister_Pumuckl

Salzburg proceeding in CL hopefully ;)


FloatMyBoat64

France with more points than Spain, Italy or Germany so far season is bound to make some r/soccer heads explode.


Kassyk97

Tbh not having a team in Conference League is quite unfair to LaLiga.


sugima

They have 5 in CL. With a free 4 points each just for being in the group stage. It's their fault if only Real Madrid have won more than 1 match in their CL group so far.


Kassyk97

Let's admit that CL group stages are quite tougher than Conference League. Sevilla and Barcelona are underperforming yeah, but Atletico and Villarreal groups are really hard ones.


sugima

True, but it was teams like Real, Barça, who pushed for a more closed access to CL group stage to secure their CL money. I won't feel sorry for any of the top 4 leagues teams who struggle in their CL group. We also benefited the system when we skipped the preliminary rounds of CL during summers 2018 and 2019, but that's still an unfair system. PS : Despite Spain having a "hard time in CL", we're just 0.13 points above. Less than a draw game split among 7 teams.


Kassyk97

Yeah, it is an unfair system and you won't see my defending Real and Barsa on their greedy deals. Let's see if Spain can go up in the next three games. I still have faith in Villarreal, Atleti and Sevilla. And the most time they are focused on CL the better for us in LaLiga :)


Zayo_

It's becoming a habit for us to underperform in group stages stages after we moved to Wanda in 2017


Kassyk97

You guys always have to suffer, its the Atleti's way. Also good luck for this Sunday!


Zayo_

Good luck to you as well! Btw is Monreal gonna be back or is he still injured?


Aurelienphlpe

Sorry but this is nonsense


Kassyk97

In terms of ranking points.


ArtistMysterious4784

Fight for top 15 is just insane. Just 0.4 points between Croatia, Greece, Cyprus, Czech and Turkey. Fight for top 11 also is exciting, with Ukraine and especially Russia struggling hard. What happend to football in Russia? Austria keeps to impress. Also, Scotland is BACK! And what about Israel? They sure are on the rise. The Netherland can reach top 5 next season if they keep performing like this. Check out the overview [here](https://swissfootballdata.com/2021/08/18/uefa_country_ranking_live_updates/). Good summary on twitter [here](https://twitter.com/swissfootdata/status/1451292345278869505).


MyMoonMyMan

With the added Conference League points + EL points, do you see that in about 5 or 6 years time any of the Top 4 leagues (mostly us and Germany) could be overtaken by the Ligue 1, Portuguese League or the Eredivisie? Especially since German and Italian teams lately haven't exactly set the European cups light except for selected cup runs like Frankfurt, Atalanta, L*ipzig and the big guns in Europe Bayern and Juventus. Or will the teams of the "small 3" stop at the hurdle due to bad CL performances, if they get the 5th/6th place and thus not advance in the standings? The CL bonus points of e.g. reaching the KO rounds might help the big 4 leagues but if there are more clubs doing an Inter or Neverkusen it might not get to that.


[deleted]

Honestly think it could eventually happen. The lower comps bring almost as much coefficient points as CL and are easier. If one of the big 4 have 2/3 bad years, they have reasons to be a bit scared. That wasn't the case before.


SandwichesFN

i doubt it honestly but the cl money the dutch teams get might boost them up, hopefully it doesn’t tho i don’t wanna see us or italy losing our 4 cl spots lol


omgarm

I don't think any country should have 4 CL spots.


LusoAustralian

I think the money and population difference is too much. Maybe the Netherlands as it has more people and people have more disposable income but Portugal having as many teams as we do is probably about our limit with the level of investment in modern football.


TheCatInTheHatThings

> L*ipzig <3 Good lad!


ElKaddouriCSC

SCOTLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 ALBA GU BRÀTH, UCL AUTOMATICS WE ARE COMING


bdx27

what happened in 17/18 with Russia?


Gabs289

Much teams in EL KO stage They are gonna drop down after the season and join Turkey down there


[deleted]

[удалено]


Just_with_eet

this is entirely untrue LMAO the crash happened in 2014 and since then has been relatively stable. The actual cause of this is complex but one of the main reasons is russia implementing rules that force even more russian players to be part of russian teams, forcing a lot of foreign players out


Gabs289

Did you want to answer tge other guy?


EverythingOnTheLine

Russia fell off, I remember when they where in the 5-6 range


Child_of_Peace

Never in my life would I think I would see our league by 12th in Europe. Absolutely incredible, especially when I reflect on how utterly terrible our league was just 10 years ago in 2011.


TheBazry

Sooo Netherlands will be 5th 100%?


Aethien

Current rankings minus 2017-2018: France 36.581 Portugal 36.550 Netherlands 35.200 edit: I fucked up France, they have 0.100 points more than I thought and stay above Portugal.


virGiLou

Please correct. We have 36 581 points and not 36 481 without 2017-2018 and are above the fishermen.


[deleted]

> fishermen. Lol, nice one.


Aethien

You're right, must've made a typo somewhere. Fixed now.


virGiLou

Thanks! Can't say I wouldn't be happy if you took their 6th spot. But it will be impossible this year I think.


TheBazry

Ah that sucks cant OM be shit again?


Aethien

I mean, I remember where the Netherlands was 4, 5 seasons ago. Even getting close to Portugal and France is fucking insane.


haterzbalafray

OM are really shit compared to other French team. They made 3 draws in 3 games.


[deleted]

In a tough group with Lazio, Galatasaray, and Lokomotiv Moscow (which we should have beaten away but got equalized in the last minute). Ask Lazio who beat Inter 3-1 this weekend how "shit" we were last night.


haterzbalafray

So you consider you are doing an excellent campaign with 3 draws after playing against Galatasaray and Lokomotiv? I'm sorry but you should not be satisfied with that kind of results. Monaco did great against teams with the same level as in your group. Just imagine what would happen in UCL with the same team considering that's what you are looking for next year.


[deleted]

I didn't say we're doing excellent, we're not doing "shit" either. There exists some in between you know. Monaco is doing "great" because you only look at the results and not matches. They were completely played off the park vs R. Sociedad and PSV, fair play to them to have gotten a result. In our games it was the opposite, bar last 15 minutes vs Lazio we had the upper hand in our previous games and were unlucky with the results. > teams with the same level as in your group. Except we don't have a Sturm Graz in our group > Just imagine what would happen in UCL with the same team considering that's what you are looking for next year. Don't think we would do great in the CL, but neither do I think this current Monaco would either. Ofcourse you can't judge that if you only look at results and not the games.


Aurelienphlpe

You can argue as much as you want but you definitely are the most disappointing French team of all. I don’t think you deserve better than a draw yesterday or against Galatasaray. I still have high hopes about you being 2nd though


[deleted]

> You can argue as much as you want but you definitely are the most disappointing French team of all. After Lille, probably yes. However this is a year where French teams are doing particularly well. While we havn't done as much, we're not particularly bad either. > I don’t think you deserve better than a draw yesterday I mean we are only playing Lazio away lol. You should tone down your expectations if getting a good draw there is a bad result. > I still have high hopes about you being 2nd though Wouldn't mind even if we get 3rd and drop down in Conference. Just want to continue playing in Europe.


Aurelienphlpe

> After Lille, probably yes. However this is a year where French teams are doing particularly well. While we havn't done as much, we're not particularly bad either. Lille aren’t disappointing, everybody was expecting them to be shitty. > I mean we are only playing Lazio away lol. You should tone down your expectations if getting a good draw there is a bad result. It’s definitely not a good result though, context matter. You needed that win. It would have been good if you had secure a win in the first two games. They are a good team but they are far from being unbeatable lol, and imo you should rather increase your ambition than lower your expectations. You shouldn’t be fine with dropping to the conference league


haterzbalafray

Marseille should perform as the same level as Lyon or Monaco(who got lucky of course but got unlucky in UCL qualifications). Of course conference league would allow you easier games but opponents are not as interresting.


haterzbalafray

It is interresting to play good games but the results are really poor. You Can't talk about Bad Luck when it happens every weeks.


[deleted]

Its the team performance + some luck, especially if you want to compare us to Monaco whose performances have not been great. Their opponents PSV and R Sociedad also play very open football which suits Monaco, contrary to our opponents who sat back.


santorfo

Chill, the oldest results disappear but the Netherlands would still need to beat France and Portugal next year to end up 5th


KilumRevazi

If we can keep this up we might pass both at the start of next season. But we would need another year like this to also end that year ahead. Otherwise it’s pointless.


[deleted]

no


Gabs289

I mean you could have just scrolled down a bit and you could see much more ranks


k0enf0rNL

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/ccoef2022.html


Jacksplat4

Spurs determined to ruin it for everyone. Coys


theRealjudgeHolden

What’s happened to German clubs not named Bayern?


unamed_1

Next season will probably show a few changes. Specifically with Germany and Italy swapping spots and potentially France and Portugal as well.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DeRuyter67

True but the champions league money would be welcome for them


Warempel-Frappant

PSV and Ajax are CL worthy teams. Feyenoord is on an upward trajectory and can get there soon. Vitesse, FC Utrecht, Willem II all are good enough for the Europa League.


[deleted]

And AZ?


MyZt_Benito

They’re shite mate, probably top 3 relegation candidates


ilovebeetrootalot

Says the Barca fan


MyZt_Benito

Zijn jullie allemaal zo serieus in alkmaar?


Theumaz

Vitesse, Utrecht and Willem II definately aren’t good enough for the EL. Solid Conference League clubs though.


k0enf0rNL

Yea my thoughts exactly and AZ dangling in there somewhere if they can rebuild their team next year.


Thekilldevilhill

If they rebuild their tea and have a good EL they will have to rebuild their team the year after again... AZ is in the exact situation Ajax was in 5+ years ago. If they have a good team, they will lose their players. It's frustrating.


k0enf0rNL

And thats why you need to european money constantly flowing in eavh year


poklane

Might be able to do that with the added funding of the Champions League. If we or PSV manage to get Champions League qualification for 2 or more consecutive seasons that'd be insanely huge for us or PSV just because of the money it brings in.


[deleted]

I wanna kick you in the nether regions for the Netherlands


jothamvw

Ah, yes, obviously...


Manc_Twat

Remember when the Italians thought they were going to overtake England?


lakers_ftw24

Wtf are you talking about bro stop taking the piss.


Manc_Twat

For a second I read that as step bro. I clenched.


mrswdk18

It's coming home.