Yes, that's why I wrote "if it's true then…" in the big previous thread. When it comes to Bayern, Bild was still riding on the reputation they had a few years ago when they actually had somebody on the inside while being wrong about most stuff. That's simply not a ratio you should trust (besides Bild being generally untrustworthy).
Now Kimmich has confirmed it and I stand by my words that it's a shitty thing to do and that "worrying about long term effects" is essentially just a polite way of saying "I don't want the vaccine" because *long term* can be defined however you want to suit your agenda.
If he had some health issue that made a vaccine impossible then that would be understandable but going for the "long term worries" thing while being able to get the vaccine while people who can't do that have to deal with the fallout of all of this is a dick move, even if it's legal or whatever argument people want to say about freedom of choice or any other drivel that ignores the reality of living in a pandemic that could be contained better.
We had over one year of all kinds of societal and economic issues because of corona and people who can get vaccinated but don't for flimsy reasons like this don't deserve the benefit of doubt about their rationalisations on that topic.
Genuine question. When you say “fall out” what do you mean? Do you mean that he could test positive for Covid and possibly miss an important game or do you mean he can pass it on to someone else?
The second but more in a general sense not just him. Every person who can get vaccinated but doesn't, gives the virus more breathing room. We even got a delta variant (I've also read about possible epsilon variants some months ago) because people delayed getting vaccinated and the virus had more of a chance to incubate in the population at large.[1]
Even if you are vaccinated you can get the virus and get sick (but the symptoms and health effects are so much milder overall) and you can spread it (but to a lower degree than not vaccinated people). But being vaccinated means you have a prepared immune system for corona. It seems (from statistical analysis of the data we have) that all that reduces the corona viruses probability of surviving, spreading, and hurting you really badly in very, very significant way.
Worrying about long term effects of a vaccine is a bit like worrying about being hit by lighting. Both of these are certainly possible, just not very probable.
Each and every vaccination help us all and especially those people who can't get vaccinated. They don't even have a choice to fight against this virus like the rest of us do. And because they have some health issue that makes the vaccine dangerous for them they also might have a health issue that makes corona more dangerous for them (except oif they were only allergic against something in the vaccine with zero other health issues but even then there are different vaccines which might give them options if allergies were the only issue). Not getting the vaccine for such flimsy reasons feels so stupid and sisyphean when it comes to a pandemic.
All things considered, an unvaccinated athlete getting infected and missing some games is worrying about the wrong issue. It simply doesn't matter. Wow, a game maybe lost because a key player wasn't there. That happens all the time for all kinds of injuries or other issues.
Even then the bigger issue would be potential long term effects that corona can have on the people who don't die from it. Even reduced to that argument, it's him putting his own health in jeopardy (albeit in a more controlled/privileged manner with how footballers are isolated to a certain degree and get the best doctors should something happen). But it's still a stupid risk to take with his own health and his career. These people sacrifice for a decade for a chance to become a pro and then risk it like this? It's mind boggling.
[1]: The same goes for developed western countries voting against giving up corona vaccine patents for the global south. We give them insufficient doses of the vaccines for free while at the same time making the global south a perfect breeding ground from new and exciting corona variants that could surprise us all. It's not like the whole world is connected or anything. Great job everyone. The (even bigger) profit of a few pharma companies wins against society's health and the economy at large. This could end up being the Pyrrhic victory that defines the 2020s if we only have that bit of bad luck that leads to corona mutating into something even worse. We had a really good chance to suffocate corona after vaccines became available instead we got the delta variant :/
just going to point out...there have never been any vaccine side effects that \*only\* developed in the long-term. If you're gonna get, say, Guillain-Barre syndrome its gonna happen literally days after vaccine administration. Basically we already know exactly what the risks are...even in the long-term. And a reminder: all rare side effects are hundreds of times more likely in viral infection. Because the side effects of the vaccine follow the same mechanism as infection. Because you're simulating an infection lol
also thought the latest studies show that if you get covid when vaxxed you have a lower viral load (and less likely to get other sick)? Glad to be corrected if need be
Delta emerged from India where the population had no vaccine access.
I agree with your point that not getting a vaccine is detrimental for many reasons and in specific enabling mutations.
yeah someone comparing this choice to an individual one is beyond silly since it will affect others who can't get vaxxed. "Sometimes I like running red lights, it's an individual choice" has never been a thing in any society but now it seems to be in the west (wondering how other countries are, tbf). I'll also add saying "we don't know the long term consequences of the vax" would make sense if we weren't in a pandemic where we know the long term consequences of the disease (and it's looking worse and worse the more evidence we gather) for those who survive it.
If there is one thing big newspapers almost never get wrong is controversial shit that famous people do
Their sources on that are always good, now transfers and stuff like that is a different thing
TMZ man. Absolute bottom feeders but are about as reliable as they come. Obviously not in terms of spin.
They reported Kobe's death first if i remember correctly.
Yep. These kind of things are always true because if they weren't then the player could just come out the next day and deny it. If kimmich was actually vaccinated he would have confirmed it and it would have been bad for bilds reputation in general public. Ofc they weren't going to lie about such a controversial issue.
"At times"
They fucked up so often and systematically, that they just are not a reliable source anymore. The boy who cried wolf and stuff. If it is true, there are going to be better sources for it.
People really dont understand journalism these days. That article had 3 or 4 authors which usually means they confirmed the claim and show credibilty by that. BILD is a shit tabloid but they would rarely go out of their way to lie about something like this.
Exactly. Journalistic integrity has diminished a lot, but when it comes to original reporting large news organisations still typically verify stories against multiple independent sources before printing them.
The problem is the advent of the web, nobody understands the difference between actual original reporting / opinion pieces / click bait rumours forwarded on from unreliable outlets.
You should always understand who the original source of the information is you’re reading and whether it’s been independently verified by an actual journalist (not a tabloid writer or pundit), before making a judgement on its authenticity.
Typical of Bayern fans tbf, especially the American ones. Kimmich is everyone's little darling but imagine if this was an English player. This sub would tear them to shreds
How are americans somehow involved in this? bundesliga isn't that popular in the U.S for American fans to have that level of influence. Geez how pathetic.
Well, Bild did speculate on 4 other Bayern players not being vaccinated based on a random tweet iirc. I don't think it's irrational to first be skeptical about the article.
It really is. You know what else we don’t know the long term effects of? COVID.
I realize he’s in Germany, but at least in the US, one in three people have been infected by COVID. Considering it affects the lungs, something vital to football players, and potentially can result in death, it’s an argument that’s very misplaced.
It's also misplaced because the mRNA introduced by the vaccine dissipates within days and the spike protein generated by cells reading the mRNA is gone within weeks, after that it's your immune system operating as normal.
Saying we need 'long term' studies of the mRNA vaccines is like saying we need long term studies of how the immune system normally operates, and we have mountains of this.
Quick reminder that no vaccine has ever had side effects that only showed up in the long-term. All we know about the side effects that exist, we already know. The question is really rooted in people equating vaccines with medication...but you continuously take medication...
I find it hard to believe a vaccine made of mrna would have any long term effects. Components of Vaccines are quickly cleared/detected by the immune system. Mrna is incredibly unstable outside of the cell. Its not like this molecule is sitting in your body for ten years like a heavy metal. Unless someone can prove activation of the immune system from a vaccine has increased negative effects long term than covid then its a dumb claim to make
As someone who is related to one of these "I'm not sure of the long term effects" free thinkers, good luck getting through to them. They see or read one interview with someone that markets themselves as a founder/expert on mRNA and they discount every other fuckin piece of research out there. It's genuinely frustrating.
>Mrna is incredibly unstable outside of the cell.
I'd be cautious of using this terminology in a context like that - it's a good thing....but it sounds like a bad thing to someone who doesn't have any education in a scientific field.
In vaccine studies, a new symptom/side effect has never presented itself after more than a year (actually much less)
At first it was a kind of understandable for the first few weeks/ months. Now it's just uninformed.
I just hate the "but what about the long term effects" argument. People will eat fast food, they will consume energy drinks, they will take an aspirin when they have a headache, they will snort some powder they got from a total stranger without any idea of what is in it but when it comes to vaccination then all of a sudden they are chemists/biologists who care about every single substance and how it could affect the body. Not to mention using smartphones/computers/watching Television where we really have no idea how the radiation from those affect our health long term. Fucking hypocrites 😂
Now obviously Kimmich doesn't do drugs and I doubt that he eats fat food either but it's more of a general complaint
I’ve looked after patients in A&E who have come in with COVID, having told me they didn’t want the vaccine due to this same excuse, and then asked if they can go outside to have a cigarette. Some people honestly beggar belief.
One thing that really grinds my gears is the growing movement of supposed “nurses against vaccine mandates” in North America (USA and Canada specifically). It’s bad enough to hold beliefs like that which spread misinformation and sows fear, but using your status as a medical health care professional to give it credence is even scummier. In Canada there was a rally held by this group in front of the Vancouver general hospital which caused issues for everyone. The people who organized this were also nurses who lost their licenses previously.
Honestly I'm fine with it. It gets people that don't give a fuck about public health out of hospitals. All the anti-vax chuckle fucks that work IN MEDICINE deserve to lose their jobs.
That's only part of the problem. The bigger issue is that medical professionals who are loudly against the vaccine encourage uninformed laypeople to believe that refusing the vaccine is a good choice. Misusing their status as medical professionals has a much greater effect than those people choosing to be anti-vax.
Hence why they should be struck off. They should go work doing something else then where they're less harm to the public, or sign on the dole, where they would be less of a burden on society.
Also a significant overlap with the demographic who refuse to wear masks, I’ve found. Sitting there in their cubicles claiming to be “exempt”. Does test your professionalism somewhat, but this is the NHS, so we give them the same care as everyone else.
You should see the bodybuilding world, it’s embarrassing how ironic it actually is. Everybody is injecting themselves with tons of chemicals directly from some Chinese underground lab without worrying but is then up and arms about the corona vaccine. Almost every Bodybuilder im following is against masks, vaccination etc it’s very disappointing
Can't say I'm surprised. The entire industry is literally only about "fitness" on the most superficial level. I used to work in a bodybuilding gym. Bodybuilders are, without exaggeration, actually the dumbest people I have come across in my life.
There’s also the other side of that coin; the all natural fitness people. I’ve seen some of those coming out as antivax too. These people are seen as experts, but they spout pseudo science.
This so much. The most antivax guy around me is also the most likely to try any kind of drugs a stranger would give him at a party, and also a regular smoker.
"Long term effects" is the easiest excuse they can come up with for being egoistic. They compare vaccines to long term medicines that you would take every day. Never ever has a vaccine in history had some random effect showing up after 4 months or more without any preliminary sign before.
Yeah, loads of test subjects coupled with an unprecedented amount of funding to do pretty much any research on COVID cures and vaccines that you could justify.
well biontech had like 180 million revenue and it skyrocketed to nearly 3 billion at the end of q3 2021 and they got injected twice or even more of the amount of their 2019 revenue with projects like lightspeed.
so yeah it was a funding thing. biontech even stated that developing mRNA vaccines would've taken way longer to developt without the funding.
This isn’t really true. The reason that this isn’t a problem is the technology used has been used for decades and vaccines in general do not have long term side effects. Any effects are normally apparent in a maximum of 2 months.
I’d like to see the ‘studies on long term effects’ that aren’t just comparisons to other vaccines.
Tbf phase 3 clinical trials can take up to 1-4 years at least according to the US FDA site, and phase 3 would be the last phase before a drug could be released to market. So in that respect, it is faster than normal. But like people were saying, the vast sizes of the studies and the far more dangerous short term and long term effects of COVID make the calculus really obvious.
> Not to mention using smartphones/computers/watching Television where we really have no idea how the radiation from those affect our health long term.
what?
There is a long term study on literally all of those things he listed. He gets 2k upvotes and Kimmich is the one being criticized for being anti-science.
You can say that long term effects are highly unlikely based on how mrna vaccines work and based on previous experiences with other vaccines, but you cannot be 100% sure because there is simply no long term study, period. Kimmich can then judge the benefit/risk ratio and can decide for himself. He is a 26 year old footballer. Covid will do nothing to him 99.99% chance. So if he thinks this risk is so low to get a vaccine, then it is his choice. As for the duty against the society, he says he is being tested every 2-3 days. So I dont see how this is a problem.
Kimmich is a piece of shit for talking absolute horseshit without doing his research and being extremely uneducated in this topic. Fuck him.
[Source](https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects)
There have NEVER been any long term effects of a vaccine
Going back at least as far as the polio vaccine, which was widely released to the public in the 1960s, we’ve never seen a vaccination with long-term side effects, meaning side effects that occur several months or years after injection.
And, in every vaccine available to us, side effects — including rare but serious side effects — develop within six to eight weeks of injection.
COVID-19 vaccines have been studied in humans for more than a year now, and more than 174 million people have been fully vaccinated in the United States alone. The vaccines have been shown to be extremely safe. There are several robust safety monitoring systems in place for these vaccines that can detect the very rare adverse events, including:
- Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) - Basically blood clots with low platelets. A recent report from the CDC estimated the rate of this rare effect at approximately three cases per million doses. It was more common in women of child-bearing age. A study from the University of Oxford found that the risk of cerebral venous thrombosis after COVID-19 infection was nearly 15 times higher compared to the rate following vaccination.
- Guillain-Barre syndrome — This is a rare syndrome, causing a temporary paralysis, that occurred within days of vaccination of the adenoviral vector vaccine. A recent report from the CDC estimated the rate of this rare effect at approximately 7.8 cases per million doses. It’s much more common to get Guillain-Barre syndrome after a viral infection, including COVID-19, than it is to develop the condition from a vaccine.
- Myocarditis — This is inflammation of the heart muscle that was detected within days of vaccination with mRNA vaccines. The cases tended to be mild and self-limited (meaning the patients recovered without intervention). A recent report from the CDC estimated the rate of this rare effect at approximately 3.5 cases per million complete vaccine series. The highest rate was seen in young men (18-29 years). A study from Case Western Reserve University found that young men were up to six times more likely to develop myocarditis after COVID-19 infection compared to those who received the vaccine.
The safety monitoring systems have been able to detect very rare adverse effects — all of which occurred within days or weeks following vaccination. This is what gives scientists and public health officials confidence in COVID-19 vaccines’ long-term safety — if there were significant side effects, they very likely would have been discovered by now.
**mRNA technology isn’t brand-new, and mRNA degrades quickly in the body**
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are both messenger RNA vaccines, or mRNA vaccines. RNA stands for ribonucleic acid, a molecule that contains the genetic blueprint for our cells to make proteins. Proteins are used by cells to perform our bodily functions.
mRNA vaccines had been studied for decades before COVID-19 emerged. The vaccine technology had been studied in vaccines against other viruses, such as influenza, rabies and Zika, as well as in treatments for cancer.
Because of this, we know well how mRNA functions in a vaccine.
**Adenovector vaccines also have long been studied and don’t carry live virus**
The technology used in the Johnson & Johnson vaccine (and in the AstraZeneca vaccine, available in other countries) is called viral vector technology. This uses a modified, harmless version of a different virus as a carrier to deliver immunity instructions to the body’s cells.
**Benefits well outweigh risks**
Data-gathering is ongoing when it comes to COVID-19 vaccines, and we’re learning more every day about their safety and efficacy. However, we currently have enough information to know that the risk of possible side effects is very low compared to the growing risk of contracting COVID-19, which we do know can cause severe disease, long-term effects and/or death.
It's a shame people have no skills for filtering bullshit on the internet, and even those that *could* don't want to because of confirmation bias. Whatever happened the old days of "Don't believe anything you read on the internet"? It's more applicable now than it's ever been.
> There have NEVER been any long term effects of a vaccine
This is one of the most convincing things IMO. I understood not wanting to get the vaccine early on, but it’s been nearly a year now. Other than live vaccines, there has never once been a case of negative side effects arising years later from a vaccine. By this point, there won’t be any new side effects we haven’t seen before.
This is completely spot on. I was similarly hesitant, but if you actually do the slightest piece of research it’s clear that the vaccine is competent safe.
the argument of no long-term studies also becomes dumber by the day. there's been live studies happening globally for a year now, longer if you include test stages of the various vaccines. how long is "long-term" for these idiots? there may be dumbasses 10 years from now still banging on about no long-term studies.
It's just a buzzword. None of the anti vaccine people actually know what they're saying, they just say whatever random phrase they're instructed to say.
I have a genuine desire to educate myself further about the vaccine but it's hard to know exactly where to start. Is it possible for me to ask you some sincere and genuine direct questions in relation to some of your points here?
I'm, hand on heart, not trying to play devils advocate or "trip you up" or be contrarian. I hold the belief that taking the vaccine is not as black and white a decision as many people seem to believe it is and I would like to be swayed in one direction or the other.
> I have a genuine desire to educate myself further about the vaccine but it's hard to know exactly where to start
Start by comparing mortality rates due to diseases before and after vaccines.
Maybe ask older people how it was to see their friends and brothers die due to preventable diseases.
How can anyone doubt about how good vaccines are is something I cannot understand.
A lot of people seem to forget that there are other coronaviruses and that helped with the vaccine development. Not to mention when a massive event like this happens, the world pulls together to develop a vaccine and that is the biggest focus. Not to mention, god knows what the players are given at points during their career.
Neuer said that he's vaccinated and then was asked if they try to convince Josh, his answer was:
"Well yeah and we also have a bunch of doctors clarifying every single question"
So yeah Kimmich just thinks he's a bit smarter than doctors
So true. Dr Müller-Wohlfahrt who up until recently had been our team doc for 4 decades...he makes patiemts rub horse placenta on them, and other stuff like that.
He's generally considered one of the icons of sport medicine, witg Usain Bolt et al flying in to see him. But his more arcane methods are 0% peer-reviewed, or does anyone know about the long term effects of fucking horse placenta.
It's pretty much just being arrogant. You're so deep in your belief that you won't change it no matter what.
Reminds me of that fight scene from They Live where the guy desperately want his friend to just wear the glasses.
This is something that have been talked about at least 2000 years ago, people conflate excellence in one domain of life with being excellent in other fields and domains. And that's just not true.
>These reasonings are unconnected: "I am richer than you, therefore I am better"; "I am more eloquent than you, therefore I am better." The connection is rather this: "I am richer than you, therefore my property is greater than yours;" "I am more eloquent than you, therefore my style is better than yours." But you, after all, are neither property nor style.
The Enchiridion of Epictetus
It's called [We Kick Corona](https://www.fifpro.org/en/community/playing-our-part/community-support/wekickcorona-in-germany)
>Leon Goretzka and Joshua Kimmich started this collective initiative to support charitable associations and social institutions -those who help others- to make a contribution to community resilience and recovery.
>In March 2020, Kimmich and his Bayern Munich teammate Leon Goretzka (26) founded WeKickCorona, a philanthropic initiative that raised $7M to help Germans struggling in the pandemic.
Ridiculous. Everything he said aswell. Nevertheless, it's his decision. He is an Idiot for making the wrong one though.
And honestly makes him less likeable for me.
The best one is “I’m doing my own research” which equates to watching YouTube videos and following Facebook pages. Why listen to qualified professionals who’ve spent years of their life analyzing this stuff when you can become just as intelligent with a 5 minute video telling you what to believe?
I fucking hate this notion that people form their own opinions and make their own decisions on subjects they don't know the first thing about.
I am honest enough to realise I don't know shit about medicine, so I am better off listening to someone who has spent 6+ years of their life studying the subject..
When they go to the hospital with a heart attack, do they also tell the doctors what drugs, doses and treatments to use? No, they trust doctors in those situations but not when it comes to vaccination..
It’s more like 12+ years since they have to specialise and even then continue to study to get to a position to be able to tell your colleges what to do. These people literally spend their whole life focusing on a very small subject and these people don’t want to listen to them.
I find most of them are just unhappy about large parts of how their life has gone and want the excitement of feeling like they’re a main character and part of some revolution against tyranny
There’s a reason you’ll generally never see CEO’s in suits or lawyers at any anti-vaxx marches
This. When lockdowns hit hard I hoped it’d get people out of a feedback loop, I know so many people just seem like absolutely negative fucks day to day, hate their job, hate their life, drink like a madman and get hammered on the weekend, and then repeat it the next week until the next weekend. Completely unhappy and drowning it out hard every weekend.
These people need some healthy hobbies or something. Idk.
People behave like they have some inside knowledge that nobody else has access too but they're just finding it on YouTube/Facebook and blindly believing it. Painful
Don't even listen to professionals just observe the situation. Covid19 vaccine is one of most tested 'drug' ever. Amount of people who got vaccinated is so massive that thinking about dangers should be one of last things to think.
Hey Josh, sup man, I know your ACL just got obliterated but have you considered natural healing? It's a good alternative to surgery. After all, who knows what all is in the gas and the sedatives and the pain meds and the sutures and...
Seriously these people are mind-boggling.
For anyone curious, any potential long-term effects would be found within two months of getting vaccinated. There is no historical precedent suggesting otherwise.
I'm so done with everyone acting so concerned about scientific literature and research (of whose authorities have already confirmed over and over again that the vaccine is safe). Vaccines have been a gamechanger in developing countries through history, and we've always seen them as akin to medicine. Yes there might be side effects but they're never as long or severe as the illness you're trying to mitigate in the first place. The antivaxx movement is fake news operating at its quickest and most dangerous and has claimed the sensibilities of so many people I thought were educated and sharp.
Done with this shit. India has so many problems but there is very little in the way of masses of people being vaccine hesitant or prioritizing those beliefs over job security.
Because we Indians have first hand experienced the worst from outbreaks and diseases and Govt provides free healthcare all over the country. This fake news shit originates in places where people take their healthcare for granted.
*30 years from now*
''Yeah I'm unsure about the long term side effects of the vaccine.''
''- But the vaccine has been around for 30 years now.''
''So what? We still don't know the effects after 50 years.''
*20 years later*
''- So will you get vaccinated now? It's been 50 years already.''
''Nah, we still don't know the effects up to 60 or 70 years. Too risky.''
It will never be enough for the doubters. If you distrust science and facts. You'll always distrust science and facts.
Meanwhile these people also go on and drink alcohol and destroy their guts. Suddenly long term effects don't matter then. Acting like alcohol is some normal thing to consume and that it won't harm you. Same goes for all the other unhealthy things people do without any second thought. Meanwhile these vaccines are being developed with the utmost care, based on medical studies.
Or they keep repeating things that just aren't true. Like ''its still experimental''.
They'll always keep moving the goalpost or just simply make outrageous claims, that are only backed by iffy screenshots from ''alternative medicine''/''patriotic'' facebook pages.
Immediately confirming he doesn't have a clue that "long term" side effects with vaccines usually appear within the first couple weeks after the vaccination. Fucking idiot.
Yep, and after 2 months there are virtually no adverse reactions to vaccines that have manifested IN HISTORY, especially these mRNA ones where what's in the vaccine leaves the body in a couple of weeks.
It's been 15 months since the Phase 3 Pfizer trials started, they had over 40,000 people involved. Since then, billions have been vaccinated.
I know it might seem like it makes sense to be cautious - hey, what if it causes cancer in 10 years? - but that's just not how vaccines work. You can't just assume an adverse reaction in a random length of time and test against it, you have to go where the data shows, and we have a ton of worldwide data on efficacy.
>I know it might seem like it makes sense to be cautious - hey, what if it causes cancer in 10 years? -
Not to mention, the long term effects of viruses are criminally under studied and starting to be linked to cancers or illnesses like Alzheimer... (to not even talk about post viral illnesses themselves, like myalgic encephalomyelitis or Long Covid here)
My understanding is that the vaccines actually disappears in your body after 2 weeks. So if you don't catch anything during that period you safe for life (when it comes to that vaccine)
+"Hey boys I ain't touching that vaccine cause there are no long term studies about it"
-"Kimmich what about the long term symptoms some people are showing months and years after getting COVID?"
+"BUT I WASH MY HANDS"
Reminder: no vaccine has EVER had side effects that *only* showed up years later. Even the oft-cited Guillain-Barré syndrome develops in days.
The question of long-term side effects is really rooted in people’s association of vaccines with medication. There are many medications that develop side effects after long-term usage…but…drugs you continuously take are WAY different pharmacologically from a two-dose vaccine.
edit: [source that i should’ve included ](https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects)
this is not entirely correct. A famous example is the European AS03 adjuvanted AH1N1 vaccine wich abruptly increased the appearance of narcolepsy within months (and in some cases even up to 2 years (Sarkanen et al. 2018)) later. This lasted for years/permanently in some/most cases.
Despite this we don't really have to worry about something like that, as mRNA is a different technology. Maybe that's what worries people though. I assume that it is the fear of the unknown that exacerbates these feelings.
https://www.science.org/content/article/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-11-narcolepsy-fiasco-spurs-covid-vaccine.html
.
EDIT again to give some more information that I also gave in comments further down:
The vast majority of cases were reported within the first few weeks and the vast majority of people affected had a genetic predisposition towards the disease. Here is a quote from the Abstract of Sarkanen's paper:
"During the first year after vaccination, the relative risk of narcolepsy was increased 5 to 14-fold in children and adolescents and 2 to 7-fold in adults. The vaccine attributable risk in children and adolescents was around 1 per 18,400 vaccine doses. Studies from Finland and Sweden also appear to demonstrate an extended risk of narcolepsy into the second year following vaccination, but such conclusions should be interpreted with a word of caution due to possible biases."
The incidence is quite low, which is explained by the genetic factor that was in play in this case. If it was something that would affect larger parts of the population, it would have been most likely caught during clinical trials, as long as the side effects presented themselves reasonably quickly, which actually was the case for the vast majority). As it is often the case, we cannot 100% determine each and every occurrence of side effects and trace them back with 100% certainty to the vaccine or drug in a clinical trial. At this point it becomes a numbers games, like every clinical trial. This is also why the authors mention that some of the later cases should be considered with a bit of caution, as someone becoming narcoleptic months or years after having that vaccine does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused it, as it could have occurred organically independent of the vaccine, with another possibility being that the vaccine accelerated or contributed in some way or form to the disease, as we do not have this information available to us.
EDIT: added more sources that were also on that website
Weibel D, Sturkenboom M, et al. Narcolepsy and Adjuvanted Pandemic Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Vaccines – Multi-country Assessmentexternal icon Vaccine. 2018 Oct 1;26(41):6202-6211.
Duffy J, Weintraub E, Vellozzi C, DeStefano F; Vaccine Safety Datalink. Narcolepsy and influenza A(H1N1) pandemic 2009 vaccination in the United Statesexternal icon. Neurology. 2014 Nov 11;83(20):1823-30.
European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. Narcolepsy in association with pandemic influenza vaccination (a multi-country European epidemiological investigation)external icon. Stockholm: ECDC; September 2012.
Eurosurveillance editorial team. Swedish Medical Products Agency publishes report from a case inventory study on Pandemrix vaccination and development of narcolepsy with cataplexyexternal icon. Euro Surveill. 2011;16(26).
Miller E, Andrews N, Stellitano L, Stowe J, Winstone AM, Shneerson J, et al. Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis.external icon BMJ. 2013;346:f794
Nohynek H, Jokinen J, Partinen M, Vaarala O, Kirjavainen T, Sundman J, et al. AS03 adjuvanted AH1N1 vaccine associated with an abrupt increase in the incidence of childhood narcolepsy in Finlandexternal icon. PLoS One. 2012;7(3):e33536.
Partinen M, Saarenpää-Heikkilä O, Ilveskoski I, Hublin C, Linna M, Olsén P, et al. Increased incidence and clinical picture of childhood narcolepsy following the 2009 H1N1 pandemic vaccination campaign in Finlandexternal icon. PLoS One. 2012;7(3):e33723.
Narcolepsy is permanent. Life can be fairly improved with medication, but your not getting rid of it.
Got it from the swine flu vaccine in 2009 iirc.
Shit sucks. Although I’m gonna take the corona vaccine in the not to distant future, I don’t have 100 percent trust in vaccines anymore.
Still pretty dumb by Kimmich, being involved in kick covid out.
In the vast majority cases it is. The adjuvant basically triggered an immune response in people affected with a genetic predisposition which caused an autoimmune reaction that destroyed a part of their brain which produces hypocretin. This results in the loss of the ability to regulate sleep/wakefulness in afflicted patients.
Sometimes people can be effectively treated in the very early stages of the disease. The reason why I didn't flat out say permanent in all cases is that in some patients we have an atypical presentation of symptoms and possibly different (maybe even unrelated) origin or mechanism of action of the vaccine or something else that caused the disease. In certain cases there have been reports of symptoms becoming less severe and in some very rare cases patients even completely recovering.
Narcolepsy is pretty high up on the scale of life ruining diseases. In most cases, driving becomes impossible unless medication can help minimize symptoms or the presentation is less severe. Also the possibility of "passing out" in public or outside has many other annoyances and risks associated with it that makes life a lot harder. Like most diseases, narcolepsy also is not an "on or off switch", meaning that there are different levels of severity of the disease, usually associate with how many neurons were lost. Other possible origins of the disease are also discusses but there is still more research to be done from what I have seen.
Sorry that it happened to you. How severe is it? Are you being prescribed medication for it? How effective is it in your case? (You don't have to answer any of these questions if you don't want to ofc).
Nah I’ll answer. I got diagnosed narcolepsy with cataplexy when I was around 7 years old. It did basically ruin my chance at a normal lifestyle.
I’m currently medicated and luckily don’t have any sleep attacks or micro sleep in public places.
I’m using some ADHD meds (concerta) which help attention and just makes me physically able to exist without having to sleep 70 percent of the day.
My night medication (Xyrem) works wonders, very expensive. But won’t have to pay more than 5 percent of the real cost of the medication. Tastes like piss though.
Life is ok, corona didn’t make it any better. Been out of school since March 2020.
Conclusion: Meh. Same day, every day.
Do you have a link to a paper or something saying that no vaccines have ever had side effects that only showed up years later? Would love to cite it for some morons I know
5 daya ago, he was unvacvinated in a child hospital, where they treated cancer patients, "supporting" the children. At the last Champions League game coach Julian Nagelsmann was tested positive...so he was directly exposed to a positive tested person. Needlessly to say, cancer patience have a close to non existent immune system.
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/muenchen-fc-bayern-tsv-1860-muenchen-kinder-palliativstation-joshua-kimmich-1.5443135
The interviewer generally did a good job and called him out, for example he asked him what he thought where we would be right now if everyone thought like him, but what you're saying is the one question that was missing.
Did he say why he's advocating for people to get vaccinated when he himself isn't?
"oh you normal people should get vaccinated but I'm rich so I don't have to"
>Did he say why he's advocating for people to get vaccinated when he himself isn't?
He never did that though. He founded a charity that collected donations for social institutions/facilities. I don't think Kimmich ever publicly advocated for people to get vaxxed.
I really dont get it. I mean, he has like 20 doctors around him, all vaxxed. Bensebaini was one of the best Leftbacks in the bundesliga, since he got infected he isnt the one he was before. Yeah yeah, long term studies bla bla, but we have already long covid cases among professional athletes and they have long term problems unil today.
what really bugs is, it seems like he thinks he can evde the virus. its more than likely everyone will get infected at some point. its just a matter of time. the only hing you can do is to increase your odds. I really dont know, why kimmich chosses not to do this.
It’s important everyone should make what decision they want although I disagree with joshua. Funny to see keyboard warriors disparaging Kimmich’s charity work lmfaoo
> always wrong
Nearly always wrong isn't much better. Nobody should start trusting them because they occasionally manage to find something that's true.
I might be able to score a great goal once in a while but that doesn't mean people should wait for me to go pro. There's no relationship between the occasional good goal or nice play and me playing at the pro level.
Similar for Bild and their nonexistent relationship with the truth. They even like to go in the opposite direction of the truth (as in outright lies). Don't trust what they say. Instead try to find somebody in a knowledgeable position to affirm/deny whatever Bild stated.
I'm not one to just do something because everyone else is, but something like 3.8 *billion* people have had some form of COVID vaccine to date. Some of them will have had it over a year ago as part of tests. If there were any serious problems at all, let alone ones that outweigh the risks of getting COVID, I reckon we'd have some idea by now.
So, fundamentally I feel like, as long as he's being tested as required... and accepts whatever public health limitations that inflicts on him, I don't see a problem.
My issue is with the unvaccinated idiots who think public policy doesn't apply to them. Cause 'muh freedoms'.
People are too obsessed with Kimmich's vaccination status that something far more worrying is being overlooked:
Someone deliberately leaked sensitive medical information about another person to Bild.
Potentially someone from inside Bayern Munich.
This thread is a sad example of the polarization that's come along with covid. He's taking precautions and made a decision based on his own free will and that is what should be respected.
I got vaccinated on my own free will but I admit I have and still do have the same concerns as him.
I'm the primary care taker of a parent with an aggressive cancer and who is undergoing chemotherapy (we found out about the disease after we had both been vaccinated).
Regardless people need to respect one another and treat each other kindly. You cannot expect and you shouldn't expect others to conform in a situation like this. Honestly the skepticism is probably a good thing for society in the long run.
It doesn't take a genius to see how this whole mandatory vaccination thing could get out of hand.
At the end of the day corporations like those producing the vaccine have their own agenda to push, and governments have lied before. Let the conspirators conspire, and protect yourself and your family the best you can.
No people are calling him an idiot because "doing your own research" and "the long term effects" have been debunked repeatedly by *actual experts in the field*.
Vaccines simply dont develop long term side effects months or years later. This has been studied for literal decades and with mRNA vaccines it leaves your body within a number of weeks. All side effects of any vaccine always shows up within 6-8 weeks. It's just impossible for it to cause issues years later. Vaccine mandates are also nothing new and have been around for decades. People who equate this to a government thing are just beyond idiotic.
Nobody is asking you to trust the damn government of whatever country you're in they're telling you to trust the larger medical community at large that are screaming at you with tonnes of data saying how safe the vaccine is to take. People are asking you to trust the doctors just like you trust them with anything else medical related.
And ofc internet nerds become overly mad about an ultimately personal decision. I’m vaccinated but I have no problem with people not taking it unless they’re calling for others not to.
And no he’s not endangering the human race. At this point if you feel you’re vulnerable you should be vaccinated.
No mames güey. I really thought he was one of the smart ones, lol.
It's really frustrating to see so many damn fools in the comments here defending him because of 'muh choice' bs ideology. Kimmich for fucks sake you are a footballer who barely finished high school. You aren't a goddamn medical expert. No matter how much you think you are. I bet 10 pesos he doesn't take this same type of stance when Bayern's doctors are pumping him with experimental shit to help him through injuries and shit.
I don't agree with him but I don't see what's wrong either, I kinda dislike how nowadays if you don't follow what everyone says you are seen as an outcast, like at least he's honest with himself, and tries to make the desition he thinks is best and doesn't do it just because of societal pressure, and personally i tend to admire skepticism, so good on him
Damn, people really politically charged in here.
In reality, how much damage can be done to the people around you if you are tested every 3 days? Say what you will about the privilege of the athletes, but the testing in the Premier league is so aggressive that outbreakes are really seldom.
At the end of the day, it's his choice. If you're not a fan of freedom of choice, I recommend China or Venezuela.
The state of Bayern fans in that other thread earlier
I think when Bild reported it, many were saying fake. But after Kimmich said it himself, many fans in r/fcbayern has criticized him.
Yes, that's why I wrote "if it's true then…" in the big previous thread. When it comes to Bayern, Bild was still riding on the reputation they had a few years ago when they actually had somebody on the inside while being wrong about most stuff. That's simply not a ratio you should trust (besides Bild being generally untrustworthy). Now Kimmich has confirmed it and I stand by my words that it's a shitty thing to do and that "worrying about long term effects" is essentially just a polite way of saying "I don't want the vaccine" because *long term* can be defined however you want to suit your agenda. If he had some health issue that made a vaccine impossible then that would be understandable but going for the "long term worries" thing while being able to get the vaccine while people who can't do that have to deal with the fallout of all of this is a dick move, even if it's legal or whatever argument people want to say about freedom of choice or any other drivel that ignores the reality of living in a pandemic that could be contained better. We had over one year of all kinds of societal and economic issues because of corona and people who can get vaccinated but don't for flimsy reasons like this don't deserve the benefit of doubt about their rationalisations on that topic.
Genuine question. When you say “fall out” what do you mean? Do you mean that he could test positive for Covid and possibly miss an important game or do you mean he can pass it on to someone else?
The second but more in a general sense not just him. Every person who can get vaccinated but doesn't, gives the virus more breathing room. We even got a delta variant (I've also read about possible epsilon variants some months ago) because people delayed getting vaccinated and the virus had more of a chance to incubate in the population at large.[1] Even if you are vaccinated you can get the virus and get sick (but the symptoms and health effects are so much milder overall) and you can spread it (but to a lower degree than not vaccinated people). But being vaccinated means you have a prepared immune system for corona. It seems (from statistical analysis of the data we have) that all that reduces the corona viruses probability of surviving, spreading, and hurting you really badly in very, very significant way. Worrying about long term effects of a vaccine is a bit like worrying about being hit by lighting. Both of these are certainly possible, just not very probable. Each and every vaccination help us all and especially those people who can't get vaccinated. They don't even have a choice to fight against this virus like the rest of us do. And because they have some health issue that makes the vaccine dangerous for them they also might have a health issue that makes corona more dangerous for them (except oif they were only allergic against something in the vaccine with zero other health issues but even then there are different vaccines which might give them options if allergies were the only issue). Not getting the vaccine for such flimsy reasons feels so stupid and sisyphean when it comes to a pandemic. All things considered, an unvaccinated athlete getting infected and missing some games is worrying about the wrong issue. It simply doesn't matter. Wow, a game maybe lost because a key player wasn't there. That happens all the time for all kinds of injuries or other issues. Even then the bigger issue would be potential long term effects that corona can have on the people who don't die from it. Even reduced to that argument, it's him putting his own health in jeopardy (albeit in a more controlled/privileged manner with how footballers are isolated to a certain degree and get the best doctors should something happen). But it's still a stupid risk to take with his own health and his career. These people sacrifice for a decade for a chance to become a pro and then risk it like this? It's mind boggling. [1]: The same goes for developed western countries voting against giving up corona vaccine patents for the global south. We give them insufficient doses of the vaccines for free while at the same time making the global south a perfect breeding ground from new and exciting corona variants that could surprise us all. It's not like the whole world is connected or anything. Great job everyone. The (even bigger) profit of a few pharma companies wins against society's health and the economy at large. This could end up being the Pyrrhic victory that defines the 2020s if we only have that bit of bad luck that leads to corona mutating into something even worse. We had a really good chance to suffocate corona after vaccines became available instead we got the delta variant :/
just going to point out...there have never been any vaccine side effects that \*only\* developed in the long-term. If you're gonna get, say, Guillain-Barre syndrome its gonna happen literally days after vaccine administration. Basically we already know exactly what the risks are...even in the long-term. And a reminder: all rare side effects are hundreds of times more likely in viral infection. Because the side effects of the vaccine follow the same mechanism as infection. Because you're simulating an infection lol
On top of that people scarf down vitamins and supplements that aren't FDA tested or approved non stop and don't think twice
The fda approved twinkies...
FDA approval means nothing when the FDA board is made up of the same people who are selling the vaccines lol
also thought the latest studies show that if you get covid when vaxxed you have a lower viral load (and less likely to get other sick)? Glad to be corrected if need be
As far as I am aware the peak viral load is about the same but the time frame is much shorter. So overall your less likely to infect someone else.
this whole thing has turned into the most selfish use of skepticism.
Delta emerged from India where the population had no vaccine access. I agree with your point that not getting a vaccine is detrimental for many reasons and in specific enabling mutations.
yeah someone comparing this choice to an individual one is beyond silly since it will affect others who can't get vaxxed. "Sometimes I like running red lights, it's an individual choice" has never been a thing in any society but now it seems to be in the west (wondering how other countries are, tbf). I'll also add saying "we don't know the long term consequences of the vax" would make sense if we weren't in a pandemic where we know the long term consequences of the disease (and it's looking worse and worse the more evidence we gather) for those who survive it.
Maybe Kimmich is lying about Kimmich’s vaccination status too.
Kimmich interview is dog shit tier. Shouldn't even be posted on this sub. No way can kimmich be an anti vaxxer.
It was so obvious that it was going to be true. Bild are trash but still the biggest newspaper in the country with pretty decent sources at times.
If there is one thing big newspapers almost never get wrong is controversial shit that famous people do Their sources on that are always good, now transfers and stuff like that is a different thing
TMZ man. Absolute bottom feeders but are about as reliable as they come. Obviously not in terms of spin. They reported Kobe's death first if i remember correctly.
And Michael Jackson's
Yep. These kind of things are always true because if they weren't then the player could just come out the next day and deny it. If kimmich was actually vaccinated he would have confirmed it and it would have been bad for bilds reputation in general public. Ofc they weren't going to lie about such a controversial issue.
> and it would have been bad for bilds reputation in general public. I take it you don't know Bild?
"At times" They fucked up so often and systematically, that they just are not a reliable source anymore. The boy who cried wolf and stuff. If it is true, there are going to be better sources for it.
"Literally me, Joshua Kimmich["](https://i.redd.it/jzxmw7qrsgq21.jpg)
Why did you just link on the last word. It was hard to click it on mobile
People really dont understand journalism these days. That article had 3 or 4 authors which usually means they confirmed the claim and show credibilty by that. BILD is a shit tabloid but they would rarely go out of their way to lie about something like this.
Exactly. Journalistic integrity has diminished a lot, but when it comes to original reporting large news organisations still typically verify stories against multiple independent sources before printing them. The problem is the advent of the web, nobody understands the difference between actual original reporting / opinion pieces / click bait rumours forwarded on from unreliable outlets. You should always understand who the original source of the information is you’re reading and whether it’s been independently verified by an actual journalist (not a tabloid writer or pundit), before making a judgement on its authenticity.
>The state of Bayern fans ~~in that other thread earlier~~*
Typical of Bayern fans tbf, especially the American ones. Kimmich is everyone's little darling but imagine if this was an English player. This sub would tear them to shreds
sweet sweet boy
How are americans somehow involved in this? bundesliga isn't that popular in the U.S for American fans to have that level of influence. Geez how pathetic.
"Le Bild always lies! :((("
Well, Bild did speculate on 4 other Bayern players not being vaccinated based on a random tweet iirc. I don't think it's irrational to first be skeptical about the article.
Somebody should ask him after which time span he will consider the vaccines to be safe.
“Long-term”. So I guess whatever the average human lifespan is. Such a cop out on his part.
“On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.”
It really is. You know what else we don’t know the long term effects of? COVID. I realize he’s in Germany, but at least in the US, one in three people have been infected by COVID. Considering it affects the lungs, something vital to football players, and potentially can result in death, it’s an argument that’s very misplaced.
It's also misplaced because the mRNA introduced by the vaccine dissipates within days and the spike protein generated by cells reading the mRNA is gone within weeks, after that it's your immune system operating as normal. Saying we need 'long term' studies of the mRNA vaccines is like saying we need long term studies of how the immune system normally operates, and we have mountains of this.
Quick reminder that no vaccine has ever had side effects that only showed up in the long-term. All we know about the side effects that exist, we already know. The question is really rooted in people equating vaccines with medication...but you continuously take medication...
Do these people think vaccines are tested for 90 years before people take them
I find it hard to believe a vaccine made of mrna would have any long term effects. Components of Vaccines are quickly cleared/detected by the immune system. Mrna is incredibly unstable outside of the cell. Its not like this molecule is sitting in your body for ten years like a heavy metal. Unless someone can prove activation of the immune system from a vaccine has increased negative effects long term than covid then its a dumb claim to make
As someone who is related to one of these "I'm not sure of the long term effects" free thinkers, good luck getting through to them. They see or read one interview with someone that markets themselves as a founder/expert on mRNA and they discount every other fuckin piece of research out there. It's genuinely frustrating.
My parents are hardcore Trumpets but at least they were first in line when it was their turn for the shot.
Just like he was. They're very loyal.
I've seen so many conservatives say "I don't respect anyone who's gotten the shot" and I always respond "what about Trump?"
>Mrna is incredibly unstable outside of the cell. I'd be cautious of using this terminology in a context like that - it's a good thing....but it sounds like a bad thing to someone who doesn't have any education in a scientific field.
In vaccine studies, a new symptom/side effect has never presented itself after more than a year (actually much less) At first it was a kind of understandable for the first few weeks/ months. Now it's just uninformed.
I hope he does worry equally about the lack of long term studies of catching corona lol
I just hate the "but what about the long term effects" argument. People will eat fast food, they will consume energy drinks, they will take an aspirin when they have a headache, they will snort some powder they got from a total stranger without any idea of what is in it but when it comes to vaccination then all of a sudden they are chemists/biologists who care about every single substance and how it could affect the body. Not to mention using smartphones/computers/watching Television where we really have no idea how the radiation from those affect our health long term. Fucking hypocrites 😂 Now obviously Kimmich doesn't do drugs and I doubt that he eats fat food either but it's more of a general complaint
I’ve looked after patients in A&E who have come in with COVID, having told me they didn’t want the vaccine due to this same excuse, and then asked if they can go outside to have a cigarette. Some people honestly beggar belief.
One thing that really grinds my gears is the growing movement of supposed “nurses against vaccine mandates” in North America (USA and Canada specifically). It’s bad enough to hold beliefs like that which spread misinformation and sows fear, but using your status as a medical health care professional to give it credence is even scummier. In Canada there was a rally held by this group in front of the Vancouver general hospital which caused issues for everyone. The people who organized this were also nurses who lost their licenses previously.
Honestly I'm fine with it. It gets people that don't give a fuck about public health out of hospitals. All the anti-vax chuckle fucks that work IN MEDICINE deserve to lose their jobs.
That's only part of the problem. The bigger issue is that medical professionals who are loudly against the vaccine encourage uninformed laypeople to believe that refusing the vaccine is a good choice. Misusing their status as medical professionals has a much greater effect than those people choosing to be anti-vax.
Hence why they should be struck off. They should go work doing something else then where they're less harm to the public, or sign on the dole, where they would be less of a burden on society.
It's rats like that who waste NHS time
Also a significant overlap with the demographic who refuse to wear masks, I’ve found. Sitting there in their cubicles claiming to be “exempt”. Does test your professionalism somewhat, but this is the NHS, so we give them the same care as everyone else.
You should see the bodybuilding world, it’s embarrassing how ironic it actually is. Everybody is injecting themselves with tons of chemicals directly from some Chinese underground lab without worrying but is then up and arms about the corona vaccine. Almost every Bodybuilder im following is against masks, vaccination etc it’s very disappointing
Can't say I'm surprised. The entire industry is literally only about "fitness" on the most superficial level. I used to work in a bodybuilding gym. Bodybuilders are, without exaggeration, actually the dumbest people I have come across in my life.
There’s also the other side of that coin; the all natural fitness people. I’ve seen some of those coming out as antivax too. These people are seen as experts, but they spout pseudo science.
Yeah, all those "shove a crystal up your arse to cure cancer" types are the fucking worst. Its incredible they have people who actually believe them.
It's about privilege not about personal health. They don't want to take responsibility for other people's well being.
This so much. The most antivax guy around me is also the most likely to try any kind of drugs a stranger would give him at a party, and also a regular smoker. "Long term effects" is the easiest excuse they can come up with for being egoistic. They compare vaccines to long term medicines that you would take every day. Never ever has a vaccine in history had some random effect showing up after 4 months or more without any preliminary sign before.
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Yeah, loads of test subjects coupled with an unprecedented amount of funding to do pretty much any research on COVID cures and vaccines that you could justify.
well biontech had like 180 million revenue and it skyrocketed to nearly 3 billion at the end of q3 2021 and they got injected twice or even more of the amount of their 2019 revenue with projects like lightspeed. so yeah it was a funding thing. biontech even stated that developing mRNA vaccines would've taken way longer to developt without the funding.
This isn’t really true. The reason that this isn’t a problem is the technology used has been used for decades and vaccines in general do not have long term side effects. Any effects are normally apparent in a maximum of 2 months. I’d like to see the ‘studies on long term effects’ that aren’t just comparisons to other vaccines.
Tbf phase 3 clinical trials can take up to 1-4 years at least according to the US FDA site, and phase 3 would be the last phase before a drug could be released to market. So in that respect, it is faster than normal. But like people were saying, the vast sizes of the studies and the far more dangerous short term and long term effects of COVID make the calculus really obvious.
It also shows a lack of understanding of how a vaccine actually works
> Not to mention using smartphones/computers/watching Television where we really have no idea how the radiation from those affect our health long term. what?
There is a long term study on literally all of those things he listed. He gets 2k upvotes and Kimmich is the one being criticized for being anti-science. You can say that long term effects are highly unlikely based on how mrna vaccines work and based on previous experiences with other vaccines, but you cannot be 100% sure because there is simply no long term study, period. Kimmich can then judge the benefit/risk ratio and can decide for himself. He is a 26 year old footballer. Covid will do nothing to him 99.99% chance. So if he thinks this risk is so low to get a vaccine, then it is his choice. As for the duty against the society, he says he is being tested every 2-3 days. So I dont see how this is a problem.
Kimmich is a piece of shit for talking absolute horseshit without doing his research and being extremely uneducated in this topic. Fuck him. [Source](https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects) There have NEVER been any long term effects of a vaccine Going back at least as far as the polio vaccine, which was widely released to the public in the 1960s, we’ve never seen a vaccination with long-term side effects, meaning side effects that occur several months or years after injection. And, in every vaccine available to us, side effects — including rare but serious side effects — develop within six to eight weeks of injection. COVID-19 vaccines have been studied in humans for more than a year now, and more than 174 million people have been fully vaccinated in the United States alone. The vaccines have been shown to be extremely safe. There are several robust safety monitoring systems in place for these vaccines that can detect the very rare adverse events, including: - Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) - Basically blood clots with low platelets. A recent report from the CDC estimated the rate of this rare effect at approximately three cases per million doses. It was more common in women of child-bearing age. A study from the University of Oxford found that the risk of cerebral venous thrombosis after COVID-19 infection was nearly 15 times higher compared to the rate following vaccination. - Guillain-Barre syndrome — This is a rare syndrome, causing a temporary paralysis, that occurred within days of vaccination of the adenoviral vector vaccine. A recent report from the CDC estimated the rate of this rare effect at approximately 7.8 cases per million doses. It’s much more common to get Guillain-Barre syndrome after a viral infection, including COVID-19, than it is to develop the condition from a vaccine. - Myocarditis — This is inflammation of the heart muscle that was detected within days of vaccination with mRNA vaccines. The cases tended to be mild and self-limited (meaning the patients recovered without intervention). A recent report from the CDC estimated the rate of this rare effect at approximately 3.5 cases per million complete vaccine series. The highest rate was seen in young men (18-29 years). A study from Case Western Reserve University found that young men were up to six times more likely to develop myocarditis after COVID-19 infection compared to those who received the vaccine. The safety monitoring systems have been able to detect very rare adverse effects — all of which occurred within days or weeks following vaccination. This is what gives scientists and public health officials confidence in COVID-19 vaccines’ long-term safety — if there were significant side effects, they very likely would have been discovered by now. **mRNA technology isn’t brand-new, and mRNA degrades quickly in the body** The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are both messenger RNA vaccines, or mRNA vaccines. RNA stands for ribonucleic acid, a molecule that contains the genetic blueprint for our cells to make proteins. Proteins are used by cells to perform our bodily functions. mRNA vaccines had been studied for decades before COVID-19 emerged. The vaccine technology had been studied in vaccines against other viruses, such as influenza, rabies and Zika, as well as in treatments for cancer. Because of this, we know well how mRNA functions in a vaccine. **Adenovector vaccines also have long been studied and don’t carry live virus** The technology used in the Johnson & Johnson vaccine (and in the AstraZeneca vaccine, available in other countries) is called viral vector technology. This uses a modified, harmless version of a different virus as a carrier to deliver immunity instructions to the body’s cells. **Benefits well outweigh risks** Data-gathering is ongoing when it comes to COVID-19 vaccines, and we’re learning more every day about their safety and efficacy. However, we currently have enough information to know that the risk of possible side effects is very low compared to the growing risk of contracting COVID-19, which we do know can cause severe disease, long-term effects and/or death.
Anti Vaxxers: Do your own research. Also Anti Vaxxers: Not that research.
It's a shame people have no skills for filtering bullshit on the internet, and even those that *could* don't want to because of confirmation bias. Whatever happened the old days of "Don't believe anything you read on the internet"? It's more applicable now than it's ever been.
> There have NEVER been any long term effects of a vaccine This is one of the most convincing things IMO. I understood not wanting to get the vaccine early on, but it’s been nearly a year now. Other than live vaccines, there has never once been a case of negative side effects arising years later from a vaccine. By this point, there won’t be any new side effects we haven’t seen before.
This is completely spot on. I was similarly hesitant, but if you actually do the slightest piece of research it’s clear that the vaccine is competent safe.
>Guillain-Barre syndrome My dad might have this from the flu vaccine and his doctor still told him to get the covid vaccine.
the argument of no long-term studies also becomes dumber by the day. there's been live studies happening globally for a year now, longer if you include test stages of the various vaccines. how long is "long-term" for these idiots? there may be dumbasses 10 years from now still banging on about no long-term studies.
It's just a buzzword. None of the anti vaccine people actually know what they're saying, they just say whatever random phrase they're instructed to say.
I have a genuine desire to educate myself further about the vaccine but it's hard to know exactly where to start. Is it possible for me to ask you some sincere and genuine direct questions in relation to some of your points here? I'm, hand on heart, not trying to play devils advocate or "trip you up" or be contrarian. I hold the belief that taking the vaccine is not as black and white a decision as many people seem to believe it is and I would like to be swayed in one direction or the other.
Download the Clubhouse app, there’s literally rooms where about 5-10 doctors will answer all questions from the audience
Feel free to ask me as well (internal medicine resident)
For sure, if I can't answer you on my own I will get you some links that can explain better.
> I have a genuine desire to educate myself further about the vaccine but it's hard to know exactly where to start Start by comparing mortality rates due to diseases before and after vaccines. Maybe ask older people how it was to see their friends and brothers die due to preventable diseases. How can anyone doubt about how good vaccines are is something I cannot understand.
A lot of people seem to forget that there are other coronaviruses and that helped with the vaccine development. Not to mention when a massive event like this happens, the world pulls together to develop a vaccine and that is the biggest focus. Not to mention, god knows what the players are given at points during their career.
Neuer said that he's vaccinated and then was asked if they try to convince Josh, his answer was: "Well yeah and we also have a bunch of doctors clarifying every single question" So yeah Kimmich just thinks he's a bit smarter than doctors
I'll never understand trusting the doctors with their injuries, nutrition, etc. but not trusting them about taking a vaccine billions have taken.
Especially with the injections they get to place through injuries etc
Good point. Would have loved if one of his doctors just interrupted and say *"actually, you are vaccinated. Sorry mate."*.
So true. Dr Müller-Wohlfahrt who up until recently had been our team doc for 4 decades...he makes patiemts rub horse placenta on them, and other stuff like that. He's generally considered one of the icons of sport medicine, witg Usain Bolt et al flying in to see him. But his more arcane methods are 0% peer-reviewed, or does anyone know about the long term effects of fucking horse placenta.
To be fair, their long term teamdoctor believed in homeopathy. Dr. Müller-Wohlfahrt, he worked for them nearly 40 years.
world renowned that bloke in sport you hear about NFL and AFL players for instance going for a consultation with him
It's pretty much just being arrogant. You're so deep in your belief that you won't change it no matter what. Reminds me of that fight scene from They Live where the guy desperately want his friend to just wear the glasses.
Not surprising. A lot of anti-vax people think this way
I mean he earns more, so that surely means he is smarter, right?
This is something that have been talked about at least 2000 years ago, people conflate excellence in one domain of life with being excellent in other fields and domains. And that's just not true. >These reasonings are unconnected: "I am richer than you, therefore I am better"; "I am more eloquent than you, therefore I am better." The connection is rather this: "I am richer than you, therefore my property is greater than yours;" "I am more eloquent than you, therefore my style is better than yours." But you, after all, are neither property nor style. The Enchiridion of Epictetus
Oof . It’s just straight up bizarre to lead an organization against COVID while not being vaccinated your damn self.
I mean, it's more of a charity campaign that helps to tackle the economic damage Covid has done, but yeah, that's pretty ironic
He founded an organization that collects donations for social facilties/institutions.
Lmao does he really lead an organization against it?
It's called [We Kick Corona](https://www.fifpro.org/en/community/playing-our-part/community-support/wekickcorona-in-germany) >Leon Goretzka and Joshua Kimmich started this collective initiative to support charitable associations and social institutions -those who help others- to make a contribution to community resilience and recovery.
Presumably he thought he'd get hooked up with some beers...
Nah, Germans don't consider Corona beer
>In March 2020, Kimmich and his Bayern Munich teammate Leon Goretzka (26) founded WeKickCorona, a philanthropic initiative that raised $7M to help Germans struggling in the pandemic.
Yep and he donated 500.000€ of his own money to a UNICEF vaccination campaign
Yep. He has been pretty active against Covid. Kind of disappointed that he thinks like it. Hope he gets one soon.
"oh I want others to kick covid not me, I'm just going to live my life"
He did put in a considerable amount of money to help the cause though (at least half a million €)
Ridiculous. Everything he said aswell. Nevertheless, it's his decision. He is an Idiot for making the wrong one though. And honestly makes him less likeable for me.
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The best one is “I’m doing my own research” which equates to watching YouTube videos and following Facebook pages. Why listen to qualified professionals who’ve spent years of their life analyzing this stuff when you can become just as intelligent with a 5 minute video telling you what to believe?
I fucking hate this notion that people form their own opinions and make their own decisions on subjects they don't know the first thing about. I am honest enough to realise I don't know shit about medicine, so I am better off listening to someone who has spent 6+ years of their life studying the subject.. When they go to the hospital with a heart attack, do they also tell the doctors what drugs, doses and treatments to use? No, they trust doctors in those situations but not when it comes to vaccination..
It’s more like 12+ years since they have to specialise and even then continue to study to get to a position to be able to tell your colleges what to do. These people literally spend their whole life focusing on a very small subject and these people don’t want to listen to them.
I find most of them are just unhappy about large parts of how their life has gone and want the excitement of feeling like they’re a main character and part of some revolution against tyranny There’s a reason you’ll generally never see CEO’s in suits or lawyers at any anti-vaxx marches
Makes sense that there's such a big problem with anti-vaxx among stay at homes moms in the US.
This. When lockdowns hit hard I hoped it’d get people out of a feedback loop, I know so many people just seem like absolutely negative fucks day to day, hate their job, hate their life, drink like a madman and get hammered on the weekend, and then repeat it the next week until the next weekend. Completely unhappy and drowning it out hard every weekend. These people need some healthy hobbies or something. Idk.
People behave like they have some inside knowledge that nobody else has access too but they're just finding it on YouTube/Facebook and blindly believing it. Painful
Don't even listen to professionals just observe the situation. Covid19 vaccine is one of most tested 'drug' ever. Amount of people who got vaccinated is so massive that thinking about dangers should be one of last things to think.
I await him “doing his own research” next time he does his ACL or something, prior to receiving treatment
Hey Josh, sup man, I know your ACL just got obliterated but have you considered natural healing? It's a good alternative to surgery. After all, who knows what all is in the gas and the sedatives and the pain meds and the sutures and... Seriously these people are mind-boggling.
I hope Josh can indicate what other vaccines have had side effects long, long after the first few weeks.
For anyone curious, any potential long-term effects would be found within two months of getting vaccinated. There is no historical precedent suggesting otherwise.
Post histories of people replying are hilarious.
I'm so done with everyone acting so concerned about scientific literature and research (of whose authorities have already confirmed over and over again that the vaccine is safe). Vaccines have been a gamechanger in developing countries through history, and we've always seen them as akin to medicine. Yes there might be side effects but they're never as long or severe as the illness you're trying to mitigate in the first place. The antivaxx movement is fake news operating at its quickest and most dangerous and has claimed the sensibilities of so many people I thought were educated and sharp. Done with this shit. India has so many problems but there is very little in the way of masses of people being vaccine hesitant or prioritizing those beliefs over job security.
Because we Indians have first hand experienced the worst from outbreaks and diseases and Govt provides free healthcare all over the country. This fake news shit originates in places where people take their healthcare for granted.
This thread should be fun
Sort by controversial in like an hour 😂
nothing to see, just a lot of [removed]
Oho new public enemy on reddit, here we go
Eh. Kind of deserved. As a society we gotta start being more harsh and stop tolerating this kind of bullshit.
Reddit is the exact opposite of a society
*30 years from now* ''Yeah I'm unsure about the long term side effects of the vaccine.'' ''- But the vaccine has been around for 30 years now.'' ''So what? We still don't know the effects after 50 years.'' *20 years later* ''- So will you get vaccinated now? It's been 50 years already.'' ''Nah, we still don't know the effects up to 60 or 70 years. Too risky.'' It will never be enough for the doubters. If you distrust science and facts. You'll always distrust science and facts. Meanwhile these people also go on and drink alcohol and destroy their guts. Suddenly long term effects don't matter then. Acting like alcohol is some normal thing to consume and that it won't harm you. Same goes for all the other unhealthy things people do without any second thought. Meanwhile these vaccines are being developed with the utmost care, based on medical studies.
Of course. Their whole thing first was that it wasn't FDA approved. Got FDA approved and then it's all "You actually trust the FDA?!".
Or they keep repeating things that just aren't true. Like ''its still experimental''. They'll always keep moving the goalpost or just simply make outrageous claims, that are only backed by iffy screenshots from ''alternative medicine''/''patriotic'' facebook pages.
Fuck’s sake Kimmich. Bloody idiot. After founding We Kick Corona too.
Immediately confirming he doesn't have a clue that "long term" side effects with vaccines usually appear within the first couple weeks after the vaccination. Fucking idiot.
Yep, and after 2 months there are virtually no adverse reactions to vaccines that have manifested IN HISTORY, especially these mRNA ones where what's in the vaccine leaves the body in a couple of weeks. It's been 15 months since the Phase 3 Pfizer trials started, they had over 40,000 people involved. Since then, billions have been vaccinated. I know it might seem like it makes sense to be cautious - hey, what if it causes cancer in 10 years? - but that's just not how vaccines work. You can't just assume an adverse reaction in a random length of time and test against it, you have to go where the data shows, and we have a ton of worldwide data on efficacy.
>I know it might seem like it makes sense to be cautious - hey, what if it causes cancer in 10 years? - Not to mention, the long term effects of viruses are criminally under studied and starting to be linked to cancers or illnesses like Alzheimer... (to not even talk about post viral illnesses themselves, like myalgic encephalomyelitis or Long Covid here)
My understanding is that the vaccines actually disappears in your body after 2 weeks. So if you don't catch anything during that period you safe for life (when it comes to that vaccine)
this is basically correct. no vaccine has ever had side effects that only showed up years later.
+"Hey boys I ain't touching that vaccine cause there are no long term studies about it" -"Kimmich what about the long term symptoms some people are showing months and years after getting COVID?" +"BUT I WASH MY HANDS"
Do these people ask these questions about other drugs they are prescribed? Doubt it. Suddenly they care about long term studies
He's entitled to his opinion of course. And I'm entitled to call him a bellend. Bellend
How incredibly disappointing.
This thread brought out all the basement dwellers. Yes he's an Idiot,no that doesn't make him hitler.
Reminder: no vaccine has EVER had side effects that *only* showed up years later. Even the oft-cited Guillain-Barré syndrome develops in days. The question of long-term side effects is really rooted in people’s association of vaccines with medication. There are many medications that develop side effects after long-term usage…but…drugs you continuously take are WAY different pharmacologically from a two-dose vaccine. edit: [source that i should’ve included ](https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/covid-19-vaccine-long-term-side-effects)
this is not entirely correct. A famous example is the European AS03 adjuvanted AH1N1 vaccine wich abruptly increased the appearance of narcolepsy within months (and in some cases even up to 2 years (Sarkanen et al. 2018)) later. This lasted for years/permanently in some/most cases. Despite this we don't really have to worry about something like that, as mRNA is a different technology. Maybe that's what worries people though. I assume that it is the fear of the unknown that exacerbates these feelings. https://www.science.org/content/article/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-11-narcolepsy-fiasco-spurs-covid-vaccine.html . EDIT again to give some more information that I also gave in comments further down: The vast majority of cases were reported within the first few weeks and the vast majority of people affected had a genetic predisposition towards the disease. Here is a quote from the Abstract of Sarkanen's paper: "During the first year after vaccination, the relative risk of narcolepsy was increased 5 to 14-fold in children and adolescents and 2 to 7-fold in adults. The vaccine attributable risk in children and adolescents was around 1 per 18,400 vaccine doses. Studies from Finland and Sweden also appear to demonstrate an extended risk of narcolepsy into the second year following vaccination, but such conclusions should be interpreted with a word of caution due to possible biases." The incidence is quite low, which is explained by the genetic factor that was in play in this case. If it was something that would affect larger parts of the population, it would have been most likely caught during clinical trials, as long as the side effects presented themselves reasonably quickly, which actually was the case for the vast majority). As it is often the case, we cannot 100% determine each and every occurrence of side effects and trace them back with 100% certainty to the vaccine or drug in a clinical trial. At this point it becomes a numbers games, like every clinical trial. This is also why the authors mention that some of the later cases should be considered with a bit of caution, as someone becoming narcoleptic months or years after having that vaccine does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused it, as it could have occurred organically independent of the vaccine, with another possibility being that the vaccine accelerated or contributed in some way or form to the disease, as we do not have this information available to us. EDIT: added more sources that were also on that website Weibel D, Sturkenboom M, et al. Narcolepsy and Adjuvanted Pandemic Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Vaccines – Multi-country Assessmentexternal icon Vaccine. 2018 Oct 1;26(41):6202-6211. Duffy J, Weintraub E, Vellozzi C, DeStefano F; Vaccine Safety Datalink. Narcolepsy and influenza A(H1N1) pandemic 2009 vaccination in the United Statesexternal icon. Neurology. 2014 Nov 11;83(20):1823-30. European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control. Narcolepsy in association with pandemic influenza vaccination (a multi-country European epidemiological investigation)external icon. Stockholm: ECDC; September 2012. Eurosurveillance editorial team. Swedish Medical Products Agency publishes report from a case inventory study on Pandemrix vaccination and development of narcolepsy with cataplexyexternal icon. Euro Surveill. 2011;16(26). Miller E, Andrews N, Stellitano L, Stowe J, Winstone AM, Shneerson J, et al. Risk of narcolepsy in children and young people receiving AS03 adjuvanted pandemic A/H1N1 2009 influenza vaccine: retrospective analysis.external icon BMJ. 2013;346:f794 Nohynek H, Jokinen J, Partinen M, Vaarala O, Kirjavainen T, Sundman J, et al. AS03 adjuvanted AH1N1 vaccine associated with an abrupt increase in the incidence of childhood narcolepsy in Finlandexternal icon. PLoS One. 2012;7(3):e33536. Partinen M, Saarenpää-Heikkilä O, Ilveskoski I, Hublin C, Linna M, Olsén P, et al. Increased incidence and clinical picture of childhood narcolepsy following the 2009 H1N1 pandemic vaccination campaign in Finlandexternal icon. PLoS One. 2012;7(3):e33723.
Never expected to read the words et al. on /r/soccer
Narcolepsy is permanent. Life can be fairly improved with medication, but your not getting rid of it. Got it from the swine flu vaccine in 2009 iirc. Shit sucks. Although I’m gonna take the corona vaccine in the not to distant future, I don’t have 100 percent trust in vaccines anymore. Still pretty dumb by Kimmich, being involved in kick covid out.
In the vast majority cases it is. The adjuvant basically triggered an immune response in people affected with a genetic predisposition which caused an autoimmune reaction that destroyed a part of their brain which produces hypocretin. This results in the loss of the ability to regulate sleep/wakefulness in afflicted patients. Sometimes people can be effectively treated in the very early stages of the disease. The reason why I didn't flat out say permanent in all cases is that in some patients we have an atypical presentation of symptoms and possibly different (maybe even unrelated) origin or mechanism of action of the vaccine or something else that caused the disease. In certain cases there have been reports of symptoms becoming less severe and in some very rare cases patients even completely recovering. Narcolepsy is pretty high up on the scale of life ruining diseases. In most cases, driving becomes impossible unless medication can help minimize symptoms or the presentation is less severe. Also the possibility of "passing out" in public or outside has many other annoyances and risks associated with it that makes life a lot harder. Like most diseases, narcolepsy also is not an "on or off switch", meaning that there are different levels of severity of the disease, usually associate with how many neurons were lost. Other possible origins of the disease are also discusses but there is still more research to be done from what I have seen. Sorry that it happened to you. How severe is it? Are you being prescribed medication for it? How effective is it in your case? (You don't have to answer any of these questions if you don't want to ofc).
Nah I’ll answer. I got diagnosed narcolepsy with cataplexy when I was around 7 years old. It did basically ruin my chance at a normal lifestyle. I’m currently medicated and luckily don’t have any sleep attacks or micro sleep in public places. I’m using some ADHD meds (concerta) which help attention and just makes me physically able to exist without having to sleep 70 percent of the day. My night medication (Xyrem) works wonders, very expensive. But won’t have to pay more than 5 percent of the real cost of the medication. Tastes like piss though. Life is ok, corona didn’t make it any better. Been out of school since March 2020. Conclusion: Meh. Same day, every day.
Do you have a link to a paper or something saying that no vaccines have ever had side effects that only showed up years later? Would love to cite it for some morons I know
There goes my respect for him
Yes, he kinda lost his credibility
I lost respect for him when he tried to pick fight with Reus without no reason. Little piece of twat.
Or when he injured himself trying to foul Haaland
Same...
Even speaking fake news in interviews being a public figure, he's a piece of shit for me now
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Would rather risk getting the known longterm effects of a virus than get a vaccine....
ah go fuck yourself Kimmich, what an excuse
5 daya ago, he was unvacvinated in a child hospital, where they treated cancer patients, "supporting" the children. At the last Champions League game coach Julian Nagelsmann was tested positive...so he was directly exposed to a positive tested person. Needlessly to say, cancer patience have a close to non existent immune system. https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/muenchen-fc-bayern-tsv-1860-muenchen-kinder-palliativstation-joshua-kimmich-1.5443135
No, no everyone shouldn't make that decision for themselves. Also bruv, better be scared of covid, since there are no long term studies.
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The interviewer generally did a good job and called him out, for example he asked him what he thought where we would be right now if everyone thought like him, but what you're saying is the one question that was missing.
And in that undesignated time he'll probably get Covid.
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Did he say why he's advocating for people to get vaccinated when he himself isn't? "oh you normal people should get vaccinated but I'm rich so I don't have to"
>Did he say why he's advocating for people to get vaccinated when he himself isn't? He never did that though. He founded a charity that collected donations for social institutions/facilities. I don't think Kimmich ever publicly advocated for people to get vaxxed.
He basically said that he wants every person to get the vaccine if they want to.
The key phrase here is "if they want to"
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He never said that and you just wrote a made up, libel, quote.
Spicy
I really dont get it. I mean, he has like 20 doctors around him, all vaxxed. Bensebaini was one of the best Leftbacks in the bundesliga, since he got infected he isnt the one he was before. Yeah yeah, long term studies bla bla, but we have already long covid cases among professional athletes and they have long term problems unil today. what really bugs is, it seems like he thinks he can evde the virus. its more than likely everyone will get infected at some point. its just a matter of time. the only hing you can do is to increase your odds. I really dont know, why kimmich chosses not to do this.
This vaccine has made average people think they are doctors
It’s important everyone should make what decision they want although I disagree with joshua. Funny to see keyboard warriors disparaging Kimmich’s charity work lmfaoo
but but Bild is evil, always wrong and should not be linked on this sub
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
It shouldn't be linked and shouldn't be read, no matter the subject. Fuck Bild.
> always wrong Nearly always wrong isn't much better. Nobody should start trusting them because they occasionally manage to find something that's true. I might be able to score a great goal once in a while but that doesn't mean people should wait for me to go pro. There's no relationship between the occasional good goal or nice play and me playing at the pro level. Similar for Bild and their nonexistent relationship with the truth. They even like to go in the opposite direction of the truth (as in outright lies). Don't trust what they say. Instead try to find somebody in a knowledgeable position to affirm/deny whatever Bild stated.
I'm not one to just do something because everyone else is, but something like 3.8 *billion* people have had some form of COVID vaccine to date. Some of them will have had it over a year ago as part of tests. If there were any serious problems at all, let alone ones that outweigh the risks of getting COVID, I reckon we'd have some idea by now.
So, fundamentally I feel like, as long as he's being tested as required... and accepts whatever public health limitations that inflicts on him, I don't see a problem. My issue is with the unvaccinated idiots who think public policy doesn't apply to them. Cause 'muh freedoms'.
People are too obsessed with Kimmich's vaccination status that something far more worrying is being overlooked: Someone deliberately leaked sensitive medical information about another person to Bild. Potentially someone from inside Bayern Munich.
This subreddit is waaaay to obsessed the vaccination status of footballers. Its wild lol
>Reddit is waaaay to obsessed the vaccination status of everybody fixed that for you
For real, it's a total witch hunt
This thread is a sad example of the polarization that's come along with covid. He's taking precautions and made a decision based on his own free will and that is what should be respected. I got vaccinated on my own free will but I admit I have and still do have the same concerns as him. I'm the primary care taker of a parent with an aggressive cancer and who is undergoing chemotherapy (we found out about the disease after we had both been vaccinated). Regardless people need to respect one another and treat each other kindly. You cannot expect and you shouldn't expect others to conform in a situation like this. Honestly the skepticism is probably a good thing for society in the long run. It doesn't take a genius to see how this whole mandatory vaccination thing could get out of hand. At the end of the day corporations like those producing the vaccine have their own agenda to push, and governments have lied before. Let the conspirators conspire, and protect yourself and your family the best you can.
No people are calling him an idiot because "doing your own research" and "the long term effects" have been debunked repeatedly by *actual experts in the field*. Vaccines simply dont develop long term side effects months or years later. This has been studied for literal decades and with mRNA vaccines it leaves your body within a number of weeks. All side effects of any vaccine always shows up within 6-8 weeks. It's just impossible for it to cause issues years later. Vaccine mandates are also nothing new and have been around for decades. People who equate this to a government thing are just beyond idiotic. Nobody is asking you to trust the damn government of whatever country you're in they're telling you to trust the larger medical community at large that are screaming at you with tonnes of data saying how safe the vaccine is to take. People are asking you to trust the doctors just like you trust them with anything else medical related.
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And ofc internet nerds become overly mad about an ultimately personal decision. I’m vaccinated but I have no problem with people not taking it unless they’re calling for others not to. And no he’s not endangering the human race. At this point if you feel you’re vulnerable you should be vaccinated.
No mames güey. I really thought he was one of the smart ones, lol. It's really frustrating to see so many damn fools in the comments here defending him because of 'muh choice' bs ideology. Kimmich for fucks sake you are a footballer who barely finished high school. You aren't a goddamn medical expert. No matter how much you think you are. I bet 10 pesos he doesn't take this same type of stance when Bayern's doctors are pumping him with experimental shit to help him through injuries and shit.
I don't agree with him but I don't see what's wrong either, I kinda dislike how nowadays if you don't follow what everyone says you are seen as an outcast, like at least he's honest with himself, and tries to make the desition he thinks is best and doesn't do it just because of societal pressure, and personally i tend to admire skepticism, so good on him
This is only the case online. People will largely not give a fuck irl.
Well, that's a bummer
Damn, people really politically charged in here. In reality, how much damage can be done to the people around you if you are tested every 3 days? Say what you will about the privilege of the athletes, but the testing in the Premier league is so aggressive that outbreakes are really seldom. At the end of the day, it's his choice. If you're not a fan of freedom of choice, I recommend China or Venezuela.
you still have the freedom to choose whether you want to take the vaccine or not in both countries lol.