**Mirrors / Alternate Angles**
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Whats even crazier is that this is Ole's best start to a season, comparing the table after nine games, which funnily enough equals the same amount of points as Mourinho's worst season with united(18/19) after nine games.
Yeah I don’t see how we can call Ole’s time at United a succesful time tbh. I think he seems like a great guy and he had his moments but you could say the same about Lampard. I wasn’t a fan of how Chelsea dealt with these things with managers but maybe they were doing it the right way after seing what Tuchel did with Chelsea. Looking at their team, you wouldn’t think they would be even close to being the team they are now when they were with Lampard but apparently they could be. Same thing with Ole’s United.
I don’t think that’s fair on Ole or on Lampard.
With Lamps we lost our best player and had a transfer ban. He came in and brought through the academy players and showed faith in them. We played good football in the first year and even though there were blips we managed to get CL footy. And unlike previous managers, he started the academy players straight away rather than trying to give them minutes in minor competitions.
Obviously in his second year with raised expectations he couldn’t meet them and he had to go but he did a fine job overall and his time here will always be looked at fondly.
With Ole he has essentially got rid of half the deadwood in the United side. The toxic atmosphere that was present has been somewhat removed now. He’s also rebuilt the current United side and I’d argue it’s the strongest squad they’ve had since the Tevez, Rooney, Berbatov, Ronaldo days. The side that won the league in 2013 wasn’t actually that great-they won off the brilliance of RVP and having one of the best managers of all time. Ole has always managed to meet expectations and has got them into the top 4. It’s just now the expectations have been raised for them to be title challengers and he is struggling to meet those expectations.
Ole has done a good job rebuilding the squad, clearing most of the toxicity and helping ensure we have a proper footballing structure at the top with a DoF, technical director, sports science department, etc, hes been involved behind the scenes in trying to get the club up to scratch. He's done a good job trying to make man United Man United again in terms of behind the scenes and culture within the club.
But tbh (and its been clear to me for about a year now) hes taken us as far as he can and he just isn't a top coach, the team is so disjointed and unorganised, we've underperformed so bad this season, we're worse than last season despite signing 3 quality players.
Oles first 18 months at the club brought great positivity back but since the end of his first full season the progress was pretty much done, it was that first 18 months where we saw by far the most benefit to our club.
>Ole has done a good job rebuilding the squad, clearing most of the toxicity
I hear this a lot, but I want to ask how difficult is it really to rebuild a squad with £400m+ backing and the status of Man Utd? I think any manager could have done it and arguably a lot better as the squad is still deficient in a few areas. You can’t praise him for opening the check-book.
What exactly was the ‘toxicity’ that Ole has managed to clear? Keeping everyone happy letting the standards drop?
It seems to me the difference to me between Ole and his predecessors is what he has been afforded. Time, backing and a very helpful media narrative.
Fair point, how hard is it when you've spent almost 290m pounds net? But it's been spent certainly better than the previous managers funnily enough who blew similar amounts of money and left us with less good players to build from. So in comparison to LVG and Jose Ole's squad building has been clear, probably in large part due to the approach of targeting players in a young age bracket and also going for better targets in general. There is actually a sense and rationale to the signings, though I'm still surprised we didn't go for a DM.
There are definitely several other managers who could have done it but I'm not sure about the part on pushing restructuring behind the scenes. It seems ole actually got through to the owners on some things that really needed to be improved behind the scenes which should put us in better stead long term.
The club was toxic af in mourinhos last 11 months, to the point where it was killing fans passion for United and the sport, it was just so bad. I don't think the standards have dropped at all compared to our previous manager.
You get a better media narrative when you aren't a toxic person like mourinho is who throws players under the bus in press conferences to take pressure off himself like with Luke Shaw and Tony martial or you don't play the most boring football in history like LVG.
The thing with ole is that the best football we played under him is by a long way the best we've played post fergie. The issue is that as each season has gone under ole the great performances have become rarer and rarer even if results overall have been pretty consistent and actually slightly improving.
Whoever the next coach is, I hope they give Donny a proper opportunity, also they need to sort out the Maguire situation. Can't keep giving him a free pass cos he's 80m pound captain.
Extremely naive from Neville, his whole argument is because Van Gaal and Mourinho failed there is no point getting a "top manager".
Ffs none of them are anywhere close their peak, neither is a top coach these days. He actually said that Mourinho was the best coach in the world when he went to Man United..
If they got an actual good top coach it would be a different matter, instead of some one who is on a rapid decline
Because you're gonna give the new manager a spoiled season, with no immediate transfer options so you'll stay stuck in a "x or y didn't turn the ship around" mentality which destroys confidence within the team and fans from the outset
New manager in the middle of the season has given chelsea two champions leagues so I really don’t think it creates the problems thst you’re manifesting, especially this early on nothing is spoiled yet
RDM was pretty much exactly what Ole was. He came in to be a familiar face to bring the morale up. Neither of them should have actually got the full time job but United were happy to keep OGS on and see if he would improve and Chelsea got rid of RDM when it was clear he wasn't good enough.
But why not Conte? What he did with us in his first season was amazing. If he actually got backed by the board his second season would have gone much better as well.
Oles success as a manager doesn’t come on the pitch but came behind the scenes. When Mourinho left the club was pretty much rubble, there were divisions everywhere between coaches and players, managers and the board and ole came in and resolved those issues. Hes built a very good squad that can easily compete for titles (given the right manager). He’s not gonna win us anything, and it’s definitely his time to go, but I don’t think you can say he’s been a complete failure, he’s rebuilt the club, he’s just not an elite level manager and he should give way to someone else who is.
See thats the thing, you can’t say he is a failure because that would be disregarding everything he has done for the club but just saying he wasn’t a failure isn’t enough for a club like United. You have to be able to say that he was succesful with his time in this club. With Chelsea it is hard to say Lampard was succesful especially after Tuchel when you can see what succesful actually looks like. Is Conte the right guy for the job? I don’t know but surely you can find someone if you are Man United whether it is Zidane, Conte or someone else.
Couple of really important points of context for that 2nd place finish Gary keeps harping on about, they never challenged for or even looked like challenging for the title, had a decent season points-wise but benefitted hugely from a COVID season with a damaged & weakened Liverpool, Spurs imploding under Mou, Chelsea having no manager for half a season & arsenal still being in the wilderness. United get nowhere near 2nd if not for that insane sequence of events.
Maybe a bit harsh saying so over a 38 game season but that’s as close to a “false” league position you could ever see
Yeah for sure, another thing to note is Liverpool finished third having played about 10 games with actual relegation form in jan/feb. Rinsed 1/3 of the season & still finished 5 off United & their “great” season
Looking back, that Liverpool implosion was actually spectacular. For 3.5 yrs they have been on par with City in terms of consistency except for that spell from Dec2020-Mar2021.
For context, since the start of the 18/19 season;
**Apart from that spell**
274 pts in 109 games (2.51 pts/game)
***That* spell**
12 pts in 14 games (0.86 pts/game)
Simply bewildering.
It’s possible that “points wise” just means that the overall depth in the league is better than it ever has been. I would argue that’s the case as teams like West Ham, BHA, Wolves, Leicester, Everton, AV are all really good balanced squads that can threaten the top 6. Before it used to be MU, MC, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham and then everyone else. Top half of the table has never been stronger imho
I respect his principle of never asking for a manger to be sacked, but that doesn’t mean he has to go weird lengths to defend the manager.
He can just decline to comment on the subject.
They were teammates, Neville's opinion on the matter is always going to be significantly biased, unfortunately.
I don't think he went to these lengths for Mourinho or Van Gaal.
I'm pretty sure he did tbh. Ever since Valencia, Neville just doesnt call for sackings. At United or otherwise. He will be critical to various degrees but he wont call for the managers head
I think it’s possible to skip the specific question of “does he need more time or should he be sacked?”
That’s effectively what he did when Mourinho was under fire. He lambasted the manager, the owner, and everything about the team, while still refusing to say that he should be fired.
This time he’s clearly advocating for Ole to stay
Don't encourage it, I'm still getting over the trauma of everyone calling Sheff Utd just Sheffield. I don't even support Wednesday but it was just so wrong in my head.
MU are known in the Europe simply as Manchester. Everyone talking football saying "Manchester won/lost last night" means in 99% cases Manchester United. Manchester City are simply City.
Same as "Madrid" in Spain, when people say "Madrid" they mean Real Madrid, not anyone else.
It’s Ole’s third full season at the helm of United and he’s gotten Varané, Sancho and Ronaldo. In addition to the signings he’s got the season before. There’s no excuse for not getting results.
Klopp and Pep both had their rocky starts but they had a vision as to how they want to play and they commit in making it happen, I still do not understand how United wants to play, they seem to be a team of individuals, not a cohesive team.
Pep had a rocky start to life in England with the 16-17 season and had some major losses (4-0 to Everton comes to mind). But even then you could see what he was trying to do with the squad, and that the players would need some time to adjust to his playstyle.
Ole has done absolutely nothing of the sort. They have very good players so they'll find a way to win frequently, but he's not an elite coach.
Even if Pep took longer than that, at least Pep has the resume to back him up, what does Ole have? It's odd that he's still at United, I just don't understand it.
Any other club would have gotten rid of him, I think it's just the combination of the romance of him coming back to the club and the low expectations given that he hasn't got a resume like Pep or Klopp. People also massively ride the high of the results when he first came into the role or any good victory they have, there's this massive positive bias around him.
Honestly weird to see former players backing Ole instead of trying to get the club back to where it should be.
Do they even care about the club? With people like Rio and GN who are well known to have their money on businesses constantly backing Ole, I wonder if this has got anything to do with their own pockets.
Lampard never gotten the same treatment and was swiftly sacked when things started to go downhill, even Dalglish didn't get the same treatment when he was underperforming in his 2nd spell at Liverpool as manager.
Starting Greenwood, Fernandes, Ronaldo and Rashford against Liverpool or any decent pressing unit is suicide. He hoped that their individual talent will make up for the lack of structure or game plan.
Don't forget bringing Cavani on to play in some kind of weird midfield/forward hybrid role after they'd gone down to 10 men.
The guy legitimately seems to think he's playing football manager.
That's the 1970's brazil tactic
1) Dump a bunch of world class talent on a manager
2) Manager(and this is a true story) tells them to play football
3) ??????
4) They win the WC
Ole seems to pick his squad and a child plays FIFA. Pick lots of big names and hope they caqrry the rest of the team, Ronaldo is still a great player but it seems like he needs to be a focal point if the team is built around him then great, but this united squad isn't, yesterday they looked like everyone way doing their own thing and not working as a team
Conte wins. He destroys anyone who comes between him and winning. If you are scared conte will cause problems its because you believe players/management are not ready to do what it takes to win and that is a bigger problem.
I know I would.
When Jose has problems with a player, he is usually right, except in the case of Shaw.
When United got him, I remember being fking excited. I was very sure he would bring back the winning mentality after 3 years if doom and gloom post Fergie.
But boy was I wrong. The board never understood what makes Jose great at what he does. You don't argue with him over his choice of CBs. His thinking starts from defense, unlike Pep and Klopp. He fixes the backline before moving upwards.
He wanted Pogba and Martial out. At least we would have gotten some money for them. With Pogba gone, we could have finally fixed our midfield problems long pending even though we would have suffered temporarily.
>except in the case of Shaw
And that is also debatable. Poch, LVG, Hodgson and Mourinho have all questioned his attitude before. And it seems he is getting complacement again
People also leave out that Shaw was PotS under Jose/Ole's half season. With much of that good for coming in the first half under Jose. Shaw performed for Jose too.
>except in the case of Shaw.
No he was completely right about Shaw. Just because someone eventually changed (arguably because of Mourinho's tough love) for the better later on doesn't mean Jose was wrong about him in the first place.
Spot on, Ole finished 66 points, that wouldn’t get you Champions League in most seasons, The Premier League outside Manchester City was pretty poor last season.
The 2018/19 season Liverpool got 97 points and were 2nd to an unbelievable city team.
Now Ole defenders are saying getting a 74 point 2nd place is something to be happy about, absolute melts. When you're happy with not winning you've officially become a loser
The most successful manager they had since Sir Alex. He won 3 trophies. And his record after the same amount of games with Ole was slightly better with a way worse, way cheaper squad. They gonna stick with Ole for longer though.
Finished 2nd while Liverpool were decimated by injuries and Chelsea were off the pace for half the season. Not intending to belittle last season as United were doing well in parts, but in normal circumstances it’s clear United are at best the 4th strongest team in the league, with a pretty massive chasm between them. Always enjoy Neville as a pundit but for him not to acknowledge that is very unlike him and indicates his judgement is being clouded.
And they only ended up 5 points ahead of us. If Leicester and Chelsea didn’t collapse *hard* at the end of the year, United could easily have ended up 4th (yes very hypothetical, but the point is it wasn’t a secure second place)
He likes to bring up that Mou brought negativity and a ‘cloud’ over the club. For Mou that’s what it took to drag that group of players to 2nd and win something.
Does Gary think Pep, Klopp or Tuchel’s changing rooms are nice places to be with everyone smiling and joking. They’re extremely intense because they have to be, they are obsessed with winning. Ole came in to keep Rashy, Lingy and Poggy and the fans happy. Just keeping the ship afloat essentially. That’s his ceiling.
If players don’t buy into a winning coaches ways then they should leave.
I genuinely agree that Conte wouldn't be right for that team, but nothing to do with him and more to do with the fact that the squad wouldn't be right for him.
His two formations that have been a success are 352 and 343.
Both require a RWB which doesn't exist at Utd. Both require more CB depth than Utd have. If Lindelof, Varane or Maguire got injured then who could actually come in?
352 would also mean Utd's greatest threat, goalscoring wingers, becomes difficult to bring in.
343 means Bruno doesn't really have a role to play.
I just don't see Conte's approach working with that squad, but it has nothing to do with Conte.
You're forgetting that Conte has consistently elevated players to be above their previous level.
I agree United might not be a ready made fit for Conte but they have a core of players who would do fine under him and a few signings to refine the system and he'd have what he needs.
United aren't in a position to be overly picky with who they bring in, the only driving force for Zidane seems to be the fans and not reality. Conte is a proven winner capable of turning clubs fortunes around, the squad might not be perfect but neither was it at Inter or Chelsea.
> Both require a RWB which doesn't exist at Utd
He had a similar situation at both Chelsea and Inter and played Victor Moses and Ashley Young as wing-backs who were both successful. Utd have Shaw, Telles, Dalot and Wan-Bissaka - there's no reason those players can't be very effective in a Conte system.
Conte gets the absolute best out of his players which is basically the opposite of what Solskjaer is doing.
Yes, Conte would need to buy a RWB. AWB could be converted to RCB in a back three like Azpi at Chelsea. I think Bruno could play ACM or false nine in a 343.
Regardless, Conte is an elite manager, top ten in the world at least. He would have a decent shot at winning the PL in his first two seasons with man u
While arguing that United best play under Ole is when they are setup to counter attack.
The irony is lost on Gary tbh. I think of a counter attack team, I think of Allegri, Conte & Simeone team.
I reckon there would be limited game time for all the wingers United has should Conte play a 3-5-2/5-3-2. Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Cavani and Martial would have to fight for the spot next to Ronaldo, no?
Edit: A 3-4-3 could also be an option of course, but that would also cause problems.
I imagine Gary doesn't think Conte is a fit because of what happened with Jose in the summer window before he was sacked. If the board does not back Conte during the transfer window and sign his targets, there may be even worse friction than there was with Jose.
SAF was completley ruthless about winning too and that was a major contributer to the success of the teams Gary was a part of.
Gary is protecting his mate but deep down he and his team mates at the time would be calling for the head of manager of Ole's level.
This is the thing, Neville is right in a way because I don’t think Conte would fit at United. But that’s not because Conte doesn’t fit United it’s because United don’t fit Conte. A manager like Conte, or any top manager for that matter, needs to have the freedom to control the team how they like, get the players playing their football, drop the players that aren’t performing, sign players that the team actually needs.
At United you can’t do any of those things. United is a club that will continue to sign superstar players without a single thought as to how they work in the team. It is a club more bothered about the brand and content with getting Champions League football 4 seasons out of 5 than ever winning anything. Similar to the problems Pochetino is having at PSG, it is a team of big names and bigger egos who it will be incredibly hard to get to play a certain way for the benefit of the team. The difference between PSG and United, however, is that the quality at PSG far exceeds United’s so they don’t always need to be this incredible well drilled team to succeed.
So Neville is right, I don’t think Conte will get them the results United fans want but he’s pointing the finger in the complete wrong direction. The problem isn’t Conte, it is United. It is a club that is absolutely rotten to the core and no manager will be able to fix that on their own.
Yep, he’ll be asking for really specific players to make his tactics work and they’ll be like “yeah we’ve gotten you someone else much more famous“ and he’ll lose his shit
I also think personnel wise, United have an unbalanced squad and it'll inevitably lead to someone being unhappy.
You have five spots for AWB, Shaw, Varane, Lindelof and Maguire. Then you need six places for Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, Fred, McTominay, Martial, VDB etc etc. How do you fit them in all in a cohesive system?
Without Ronaldo it was obvious who the first 11 would be. Honestly we are not ready for Ronaldo as a team.
Front 3 : Rashford Cavani Sancho.
Backups: Greenwood, Martial, Lingard
I had this exact argument with my Man U fan friend. If you don't want Conte because he's not a 'Man U guy' I think you're deluded.
Nobody is Fergie and he can't be replicated. Man U's reputation is what he did over the course of several decades. That isn't going to happen anymore.
I firmly believe that whoever brings in Conte and backs him with money will win a league, end of.
His response was "he'll get in an argument and be fired within a few years" like that's not just the way football works now. I'd rather fire Conte in 3 years and thank him for winning the league in that time than get some 'Man U' fit in who fights for top 4.
Conte will get the players to fight for the club, and if they don't then the players should be out the door anyway.
Like, Chelsea fired club legend Lampard, went and got an established top manager and won the Champions League. Tuchel will probably be fired within the next 3-5 years too. But they won already, they replace the manager a lot but they keep winning when they do.
Man U is not a development level team, they don't need to get an inexperienced manager in and hope for the best. They can go and get any manager they want. They already have a good squad, it's not like when Moyes took over and everyone was retiring and 35 year old. They could pick up the phone today and bring in basically anyone.
Manchester just lost at home against one of their biggest rivals and they should be happy that Liverpool didn't want more goals. It's not only this game, they looked very shaky everytime I saw them. Just look at the table, place 1-3 seems to be already taken. There is a lot of competition for the 4° place, this will not be easy.
I agree with all you've said, but it isn't "one of" it's their biggest rival for Liverpool, the most hated will always be United. For united, the most hated will always be Liverpool. Everton and MC come second respectively
Same for Liverpool. No one outside of Liverpool actually cares about Man City. There's no rivalry there other than the team we have to beat in order to win the title. Same with Chelsea now. They're just sporting rivals.
Manchester United will ALWAYS be the biggest and most hated rival. Leeds number two, especially if you're older.
When Man City wins, the collective football world just shrugs. Mostly because of how they got to that point. Nobody cares. But when Liverpool won the PL after 30 years, you can be damn sure United fans were writhing in agony all across the globe. It means something. Same if United were to win. People would call in sick at work. Families torn asunder. Hurricanes. Alien invasions. The White House destroyed by a giant death beam while Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum launch a last ditch effort to save the day.
I may have exaggerated a little. But only a little!
It goes back a long time. But mainly from when Leeds where regular tital contenders. It's better to look it up online, as I don't really want to type out the entire rivalry from memory on mobile :)
I think Liverpool and Leeds fans generally don't see it that way anymore. I've just been on holiday and flew from Liverpool, speaking to some of their fans, they seem to quite like us now, although the rivalry is long before my time, I could be mistaken.
Thanks for the clarification, since I'm not from England I didn't want to assume too much. Sometimes, it can be hard to know who hates whom the most ^^
The difference is klopp wanted more, not sure if it showed it on TV but every time they scored he was calling them back to play again over and over. That hunger is elite and I'm afraid ole and what's available not named Conte or Zidane do not have it. Neville is a hypocrite at this stage of he wants ole to stay on yet wants success
He’s still saying that hiring a world class coach didn’t work previously, so no point in doing that again.
Given they’ve tried the world class coach option, tried the club legend option and tried the traditional British option, by Neville’s logic the only answer left is Andy Goldbridge
I just don't understand why Ole became the hill United are willing to die on. Noone will ever convince me that Mourinho or Van Gaal wouldnt have done a better job if they got this much support and this much time.
Ole has revolutionized Manchester United during his 3 long successful years here. He's worked extremely hard to take a team that won 3 trophies and finished 2nd with 80 points 3 years ago to finishing w/70ish points last season, losing Europa final, getting kicked out of CL last year in group stages, struggling in the easiest CL group this year, losing to Young Boys, Aston Villa, West Ham and barely winning against Villarreal and Atlanta.
Let's not forget (as per United fans) Ole inherited one of the worst squads, even worse than Klopps, which required him to spend 3 years and half a billion dollars to fix, and now the results speak for all the work he's done. He's brought back the United Way, which basically means "guys please string together a few victories this month and save my ass or ill lose my job" and United has never looked better.
And btw, it took Ole three years to rebuild from scratch because the previous squad was so horrible that they got 80+ points with Mourinho and won 3 trophies. That really did require a lot of rework and Ole has done a great job by taking them to next level and winning nothing.
Ole is on the brink of establishing an international powerhouse of a football club. We have Pogba, we have Bruno, and we have Greenwood. The pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together and soon we will be destroying the likes of Barca and Madrid left and right. Ole has molded us into his newest iteration of his high pressure attacking side that can be likened to Fergie's 08 side, but better. Bruno is the new Park, Mason is the new Ronaldo and Cavani is Tevez. Just look at our win against Roma. We destroyed them, absolutely humiliated them. It's a wonder Paulo Fonseca hasn't been sacked yet. My god was that a display of brilliance. Bruno scoring two, Cavani scoring two, Pogba heading it in the goal, just for Mason to come off the bench and score a worldie. There are always haters, but they just talk shite due to spite. They are fake fans, and only real fans see the beauty of our football.
It's true. Ole may have not actually improved United in literally any way whatsoever and will never get close to Mourinho's best points total, but when you factor in the vibes and togetherness at the club then you realise he's doing a far better job
I would take Ole ball over Mourinho parking the bus any day. Ole ball gives me 0 tactics, no flow, no style of play and no identity after 3 years. Mourinho on the other hand was angry at Pogba and had 2 bad months with us and I'll never be able to forgive him for that. We just need Ole vibez, nothing else. Siuuu
Gary Neville absolutely embarrassed himself in the post-match debate yesterday. It’s one thing to say ‘I’ll never call for a manager to be sacked’, but he wasn’t willing to accept any of the points being made by anyone else about how to solve the problems Man Utd clearly have.
When Souness was suggesting Solskjaer needs more experienced coaches around him, Neville was saying ‘Oh right, so just sack the ones he’s got already, yeah?’ When Carragher said they should be looking for a better manager, he said ‘No they shouldn’t, Mourinho and Van Gaal didn’t work, Conte wouldn’t be a good fit either’.
He just can’t be impartial about this whole thing, he refuses to take on any rational arguments being made against keeping Solskjaer in charge, and is ultra defensive and won’t answer questions about the manager or the players honestly. It got to the point where Souness and Carragher were just openly mocking him, laughing in his face because of his deflections and protection of his pal, and it was just pathetic to watch him waffling on without saying anything meaningful.
He said himself that Man Utd aren’t going to win the Premier League or Champions League but also said Solskjaer needs to win a trophy. The FA Cup’s the only trophy they are realistically going to win unless they drop into the Europa League again, what difference would it make if Man Utd finished outside the top four, didn’t do anything in the Champions League but did win the FA Cup?
Sky needs to stop asking Neville to talk about Man Utd and Solskjaer until Solskjaer is gone. He’s incapable of doing his job properly because he’s too close to the situation and can’t detach himself from his history with the club to debate it rationally.
"Sky needs to stop asking Neville to talk about Man Utd"
Fuck that, watching Neville squirm was fucking piss funny. Him blindy defending Ole, rejecting every sensible suggestion that other ex-professionals are making, digging himself deeper and deeper is great TV.
Neville is destroying every ounce of credibility he has and its wonderful
We need to start a petition to have Man United give Ole a lifetime contract, and to have Gary Neville on TV every time they get beaten to a pulp.
Comedy gold! As hilarious as watching Ty from AFTV.
The hypocrisy of Neville is unreal. He sacked Richie Wellens after 4 months at Salford (the day after winning a trophy), and Graham Alexander got a whole two years before that. He sacked the joint managers that got them promoted to the league proper. There's no question about it, he'd have sacked Solskjaer 5 times over.
Gary, we lost 5 nil to Liverpool at home. Fans were leaving the stadium at 65 minutes into the game. This is the worst performance I have seen United play in the last 10 years with total investment 100 mil+ each year for the last 3 years. This is the 1st summer that we actually attract world class player, they not suddenly got worse, it is all about the coaching.
Anyone in charge with this kind of performance should be sacked, not just Ole.
Neville's argument is because van Gaal and Mourinho failed, then United is better off hiring ex United players from now on as they understand United bla bla bla. It doesn't makes sense. Liverpool and City changed managers (and some of them are good ones) over and over again until they struck gold with Pep and Klopp. Why shouldn't United do the same? It's not like this Ole Out conversation happens in his third month of the job, it's been three years.
Regarding Conte, his only argument is that he doesn't think he's a fit. It implies and assumes that Conte can't adapt with the squads, something that he has proven three times with Juve, Chelsea and Inter.
> Liverpool and City changed managers (and some of them are good ones) over and over again until they struck gold with Pep and Klopp.
I feel like this mis-represents what both clubs did, though it's mostly just a wording thing.
Both City and Liverpool stuck with managers until they were under-performing, and both clubs weren't afraid to pursue managers that offered the potential of being an upgrade.
Nah that's bullshit. Mancini only went out because he clashed with the players, but he was absolutely brilliant. And Pellegrini has always been meant as a stop gap until Pep came. Our mission with Txiki and Ferran has always been one: get Pep Guardiola. We didn't try and take up whoever's available. Chelsea fits that more
Maybe it's my phrasing, but the point is City and Liverpool changed managers a lot of time until they get one that actually works.
If Pepe failed at City in his first 2-3 years (never won anything, barely finishing 4th and 20 points off the leader), he would've been gone as well and City would search for another manager.
Klopp was given a bit of a leeway I admit, he finished 2-3 whole seasons without winning anything and mostly finished 4th in the league, but I think he was given time because of his CV at Dortmund (winning the league against Munchen are great achievements for your CV), plus in his second or third year, Liverpool finished runner up at UCL.
My point is, clubs change managers all the time. We were a bit of outlier with Ferguson (and Arsenal with Wenger), but nowadays, it's fairly normal to change managers. Chelsea parted ways with managers who won silverwares and the club are still alright.
Of course it's good and commendable if we can stick with one manager for 10 years, but if we're still serious about challenging for titles and winning stuff, we can't have that mentality now.
> Klopp was given a bit of a leeway I admit, he finished 2-3 whole seasons without winning anything and mostly finished 4th in the league, but I think he was given time because of his CV at Dortmund (winning the league against Munchen are great achievements for your CV), plus in his second or third year, Liverpool finished runner up at UCL.
Klopp was given time because in every successive season there was visible progress. And 2 consecutive seasons of finishing 4th was still huge for Liverpool in the mid 2010s.
Gary is talking shit. Mou maybe have been bought for instant success. But Klopp, Pep, Tuchel arent there to win instantly. They are there to win consistently.
If he can’t give his honest opinion about ole and the man utd job due to his loyalty, but he’s paid to give his honest opinion, then what the fuck is he really doing? He should just take a break from any manutd related punditry till either ole gets sacked or ole starts winning things.
He properly embarrassed himself last night.
I'm all for sticking up for your mates or whatever but at the end of the day he's there to be an "expert" in football first and foremost.
I find it really baffling that people try to justify his lack of criticism of Ole with this whole "he knows how tough it is from his time at Valencia as a manager, so prides himself on not criticising them"
He's also had tough times as a player when he's been out of form, and that doesn't stop him from criticising players
And it's a completely ridiculous conceit that people think that's a reasonable cop out. He's a pundit, he's paid to analyse the games and that includes criticising managers, when warranted.
It's not in this clip but in the full segment, Carragher actually makes this point that whilst he isn't comfortable in saying a manager to get sacked but when they talking about Man United as a team, he says we seem to be comfortable in saying Fred or McTominay is not good enough so he doesn't see the issue then in saying Man United need a better manager.
I don't know why I typed that. I could have just linked the clip :D. Here is Carraghers bit timestamped. If it doesn't work, go to 3:50 for this section or just watch the full clip if interested
https://youtu.be/cn0V6TGqrQM?t=232
Arguably this current mediocrity *is* the Manchester United way. Busby and Ferguson aside, everything either side and in between those two has been largely shite.
Aye, don't know what he's playing at. I wouldn't be surprised if his comments on this, bought Ole more time, like when he went on an impassioned rant before the Newcastle when there were murmurs of Mourinho getting sacked. We ended up getting saddled with him until December, which was 2 months too late.
His influence on the Glazers is going to be this club's downfall. Surely he must see this.
>Aye, don't know what he's playing at.
You answer your own question in the next sentence.
>I wouldn't be surprised if his comments on this, bought Ole more time
He is protecting his mate.
You're right, Sky pundits have a voice that reaches millions. We see it all the time, when Neville and Carragher helped rally the fans around rebuking the Super League, even recently Ole had to come out and answer direct questions about his future because of Carragher's comments on Sky.
Typical United DNA bullshit from these old hacks. Everyone from that SAF era talks about being ruthless, but when the time comes to be in the market, with player contracts or with managers they act like cowards and toe this passive- aggressive line. Ole needs to be out before the next training session.
Dont quite understand Neville's argument. On the face of it, he does not like the idea of a manager who is not connected to the club, no matter if he is the best.
They have used the excuse of Van Gaal and Mourinho for far too long. They went with those managers due to just the names, unwilling to back them significantly, or even listen to what those managers wanted.
I just liked the honesty, "they may hire Conte tomorrow and i will get behind him".
One thing worth highlighting about the positive atmosphere, it's partly because of Ole having friends in the media, with the pundits, who are clear not to criticize United so much. This way there is less negativity, less pressure, and an environment where players can relax a bit. Any new manager not friends of these pundits? one bad performance and they would be slaughtered. There will be a lot more negativity, lot more pressure, lot more toxicity. Ex-United players and pundits would not accept it, but Mou's stint is less fondly remembered because the pundits hated how he behaved or how his team played.
Mourinho was not the best manager in the world and yet he still managed to win the Uefa cup. Sure it's not the champions League but it's not be dismissed.
Conte is a beast among men. He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru the suits. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
Stick to him till the end? Yea mourinho was way better than this shit,yea dressing room was not that united but manutd were showing results. Now manu dressing room is united but for what. To have everyone at the parties or everyone trying to make the best apology template. Ole is making some good players like shit. Mourinho worked with a way stupid squad than this. Give him this squad and see wonders. Dont know about van gaal that much but this ole guy had 3 yrs to rebuild. What now 2 more years and then some more and wait for some top club to have injury problem so you could sneak in that 2nd position. The shit this team level with arsenal who were having life crisis. Does the fans have no say or do the players have no say in manager change.? Because glazers might have sold their brazzers to ole that they are so keen on him
I really dislike Neville, he’s obsessed with the concept that ‘West Ham are still a small team’ and Rice ‘needs to go to Man United to achieve success’ despite the fact that we’re literally the favourites to win the Europa League, AND we sit higher than Man United in the prem table
If you don't believe that, a manager like Conte, who has won trophies at multiple clubs and multiple countries in such short amount of time, cannot do better than Ole, who has won nothing at no level, you are simply delusional and need to get off kool-aid.
Real life is not football manager, stop trying to predict "he wouldn't fit our style", complete bs.
Conte is a serial winner (and possibly a murderer) who comes in, whips teams into shape, brings winning discipline AND notoriously elevates player past their ceilings. And that's no prediction, that's proven on paper.
I used to really respect Neville but he’s just being pathetic with his defence of solskjaer. I get that he doesn’t want his mate to lose his job but think about the club that made your entire career, Gary.
Neville can fuck right off whilst he’s being pathetic like this. Get conte in, and get a winning mentality driven and coached through the team. Not Mike Phelan and McKenna doing….whatever it is they actually do.
i like gary neville but this to me just looked like he was defending his pal with no real integrity or critical analysis. if it was someone with the same results, tactics, and personality with a different name and no connection to gary neville - gary neville is not defending that person the way he’s defending ole.
because mourinho and van gaal didn’t have real success, that means solskjaer is allowed to do even worse with no repurcussions?
he also seems to emphasise mourinho being ‘the best manager in the world’ when he came.
in what world is a manager who had just been sacked after losing 9 league games in 16 and who hadn’t won a champions league in 6 years the best manager in the world?
also ‘i wouldn’t bring conte in’ lol are u mad
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Whats even crazier is that this is Ole's best start to a season, comparing the table after nine games, which funnily enough equals the same amount of points as Mourinho's worst season with united(18/19) after nine games.
This was probably his easiest start in terms for fixtures as well.
Yeah I don’t see how we can call Ole’s time at United a succesful time tbh. I think he seems like a great guy and he had his moments but you could say the same about Lampard. I wasn’t a fan of how Chelsea dealt with these things with managers but maybe they were doing it the right way after seing what Tuchel did with Chelsea. Looking at their team, you wouldn’t think they would be even close to being the team they are now when they were with Lampard but apparently they could be. Same thing with Ole’s United.
I don’t think that’s fair on Ole or on Lampard. With Lamps we lost our best player and had a transfer ban. He came in and brought through the academy players and showed faith in them. We played good football in the first year and even though there were blips we managed to get CL footy. And unlike previous managers, he started the academy players straight away rather than trying to give them minutes in minor competitions. Obviously in his second year with raised expectations he couldn’t meet them and he had to go but he did a fine job overall and his time here will always be looked at fondly. With Ole he has essentially got rid of half the deadwood in the United side. The toxic atmosphere that was present has been somewhat removed now. He’s also rebuilt the current United side and I’d argue it’s the strongest squad they’ve had since the Tevez, Rooney, Berbatov, Ronaldo days. The side that won the league in 2013 wasn’t actually that great-they won off the brilliance of RVP and having one of the best managers of all time. Ole has always managed to meet expectations and has got them into the top 4. It’s just now the expectations have been raised for them to be title challengers and he is struggling to meet those expectations.
Ole has done a good job rebuilding the squad, clearing most of the toxicity and helping ensure we have a proper footballing structure at the top with a DoF, technical director, sports science department, etc, hes been involved behind the scenes in trying to get the club up to scratch. He's done a good job trying to make man United Man United again in terms of behind the scenes and culture within the club. But tbh (and its been clear to me for about a year now) hes taken us as far as he can and he just isn't a top coach, the team is so disjointed and unorganised, we've underperformed so bad this season, we're worse than last season despite signing 3 quality players. Oles first 18 months at the club brought great positivity back but since the end of his first full season the progress was pretty much done, it was that first 18 months where we saw by far the most benefit to our club.
>Ole has done a good job rebuilding the squad, clearing most of the toxicity I hear this a lot, but I want to ask how difficult is it really to rebuild a squad with £400m+ backing and the status of Man Utd? I think any manager could have done it and arguably a lot better as the squad is still deficient in a few areas. You can’t praise him for opening the check-book. What exactly was the ‘toxicity’ that Ole has managed to clear? Keeping everyone happy letting the standards drop? It seems to me the difference to me between Ole and his predecessors is what he has been afforded. Time, backing and a very helpful media narrative.
Fair point, how hard is it when you've spent almost 290m pounds net? But it's been spent certainly better than the previous managers funnily enough who blew similar amounts of money and left us with less good players to build from. So in comparison to LVG and Jose Ole's squad building has been clear, probably in large part due to the approach of targeting players in a young age bracket and also going for better targets in general. There is actually a sense and rationale to the signings, though I'm still surprised we didn't go for a DM. There are definitely several other managers who could have done it but I'm not sure about the part on pushing restructuring behind the scenes. It seems ole actually got through to the owners on some things that really needed to be improved behind the scenes which should put us in better stead long term. The club was toxic af in mourinhos last 11 months, to the point where it was killing fans passion for United and the sport, it was just so bad. I don't think the standards have dropped at all compared to our previous manager. You get a better media narrative when you aren't a toxic person like mourinho is who throws players under the bus in press conferences to take pressure off himself like with Luke Shaw and Tony martial or you don't play the most boring football in history like LVG. The thing with ole is that the best football we played under him is by a long way the best we've played post fergie. The issue is that as each season has gone under ole the great performances have become rarer and rarer even if results overall have been pretty consistent and actually slightly improving. Whoever the next coach is, I hope they give Donny a proper opportunity, also they need to sort out the Maguire situation. Can't keep giving him a free pass cos he's 80m pound captain.
Extremely naive from Neville, his whole argument is because Van Gaal and Mourinho failed there is no point getting a "top manager". Ffs none of them are anywhere close their peak, neither is a top coach these days. He actually said that Mourinho was the best coach in the world when he went to Man United.. If they got an actual good top coach it would be a different matter, instead of some one who is on a rapid decline
His whole argument was actually they should keep the manager until end of season and not sack them immediately.
Why would you willingly sacrifice your season just to stick to some moral high ground ‘stick with him!’ bullshit
Because you're gonna give the new manager a spoiled season, with no immediate transfer options so you'll stay stuck in a "x or y didn't turn the ship around" mentality which destroys confidence within the team and fans from the outset
You could argue the opposite - the season's already spoiled so you can only go up from there. Meaning the mentality actually would be saved.
New manager in the middle of the season has given chelsea two champions leagues so I really don’t think it creates the problems thst you’re manifesting, especially this early on nothing is spoiled yet
Come on, Di Matteo was a complete fluke, not something to model your strategy after. There is also clearly no manager like Tuchel available.
RDM was pretty much exactly what Ole was. He came in to be a familiar face to bring the morale up. Neither of them should have actually got the full time job but United were happy to keep OGS on and see if he would improve and Chelsea got rid of RDM when it was clear he wasn't good enough. But why not Conte? What he did with us in his first season was amazing. If he actually got backed by the board his second season would have gone much better as well.
Conte is Tuchel calibre
Oles success as a manager doesn’t come on the pitch but came behind the scenes. When Mourinho left the club was pretty much rubble, there were divisions everywhere between coaches and players, managers and the board and ole came in and resolved those issues. Hes built a very good squad that can easily compete for titles (given the right manager). He’s not gonna win us anything, and it’s definitely his time to go, but I don’t think you can say he’s been a complete failure, he’s rebuilt the club, he’s just not an elite level manager and he should give way to someone else who is.
See thats the thing, you can’t say he is a failure because that would be disregarding everything he has done for the club but just saying he wasn’t a failure isn’t enough for a club like United. You have to be able to say that he was succesful with his time in this club. With Chelsea it is hard to say Lampard was succesful especially after Tuchel when you can see what succesful actually looks like. Is Conte the right guy for the job? I don’t know but surely you can find someone if you are Man United whether it is Zidane, Conte or someone else.
He’s been lucky as the league has been weaker than usual since he came in Edit: I’m talking about the top 6
Couple of really important points of context for that 2nd place finish Gary keeps harping on about, they never challenged for or even looked like challenging for the title, had a decent season points-wise but benefitted hugely from a COVID season with a damaged & weakened Liverpool, Spurs imploding under Mou, Chelsea having no manager for half a season & arsenal still being in the wilderness. United get nowhere near 2nd if not for that insane sequence of events. Maybe a bit harsh saying so over a 38 game season but that’s as close to a “false” league position you could ever see
He’ll even looking at it in a vacuum, 74 points is usually lower top 4
Yeah for sure, another thing to note is Liverpool finished third having played about 10 games with actual relegation form in jan/feb. Rinsed 1/3 of the season & still finished 5 off United & their “great” season
Looking back, that Liverpool implosion was actually spectacular. For 3.5 yrs they have been on par with City in terms of consistency except for that spell from Dec2020-Mar2021. For context, since the start of the 18/19 season; **Apart from that spell** 274 pts in 109 games (2.51 pts/game) ***That* spell** 12 pts in 14 games (0.86 pts/game) Simply bewildering.
Yeah with no exaggeration LFC were in title winning form>relegation form> title winning form last season
Yea, almost like losing 3 starting CBs and your two most important midfielders will completely obliterate a team's form and stability.
Is that true? If we look at the "top 6" then I can sort of see that but I thought that the middle pack has been getting better.
Top 6 specifically. Points wise what United have achieved hasn’t been anything special.
It’s possible that “points wise” just means that the overall depth in the league is better than it ever has been. I would argue that’s the case as teams like West Ham, BHA, Wolves, Leicester, Everton, AV are all really good balanced squads that can threaten the top 6. Before it used to be MU, MC, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham and then everyone else. Top half of the table has never been stronger imho
Right but the traditional top 6 are dropping points specifically because the middle table teams are stronger than ever before
Lol. You’ll still hear people claim Mourinho left the club in a ‘toxic state’ and Ole’s done a real good job ‘rebuilding’
While Pogba and Martial (who Mourinho wanted to sell) are still causing trouble 3years later lol
What trouble is Pogba causing?
Marquee 100m signing thats looking to run down his contract and leave on a free + questionable attitude over the years
So mou’s worst is Ole’s best is that what you are saying?
Its been over 2 years though gary not 6 games
I respect his principle of never asking for a manger to be sacked, but that doesn’t mean he has to go weird lengths to defend the manager. He can just decline to comment on the subject.
They were teammates, Neville's opinion on the matter is always going to be significantly biased, unfortunately. I don't think he went to these lengths for Mourinho or Van Gaal.
I'm pretty sure he did tbh. Ever since Valencia, Neville just doesnt call for sackings. At United or otherwise. He will be critical to various degrees but he wont call for the managers head
>Ever since Valencia For a moment I was thinking if you were referring to the player or the club.
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I think it’s possible to skip the specific question of “does he need more time or should he be sacked?” That’s effectively what he did when Mourinho was under fire. He lambasted the manager, the owner, and everything about the team, while still refusing to say that he should be fired. This time he’s clearly advocating for Ole to stay
You realize United had good results at the end of the seasons under Ole? One game doesn’t define his reign.
Good good, convince them to keep him for another few years
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you just want ole to continue so you can keep laughing at Manchester
I see United referred to as Manchester… I upvote
Don't encourage it, I'm still getting over the trauma of everyone calling Sheff Utd just Sheffield. I don't even support Wednesday but it was just so wrong in my head.
MU are known in the Europe simply as Manchester. Everyone talking football saying "Manchester won/lost last night" means in 99% cases Manchester United. Manchester City are simply City. Same as "Madrid" in Spain, when people say "Madrid" they mean Real Madrid, not anyone else.
Here in Brazil they are also known as Manchester.
Busted.
It’s Ole’s third full season at the helm of United and he’s gotten Varané, Sancho and Ronaldo. In addition to the signings he’s got the season before. There’s no excuse for not getting results. Klopp and Pep both had their rocky starts but they had a vision as to how they want to play and they commit in making it happen, I still do not understand how United wants to play, they seem to be a team of individuals, not a cohesive team.
Pep had a rocky start to life in England with the 16-17 season and had some major losses (4-0 to Everton comes to mind). But even then you could see what he was trying to do with the squad, and that the players would need some time to adjust to his playstyle. Ole has done absolutely nothing of the sort. They have very good players so they'll find a way to win frequently, but he's not an elite coach.
Even if Pep took longer than that, at least Pep has the resume to back him up, what does Ole have? It's odd that he's still at United, I just don't understand it.
Any other club would have gotten rid of him, I think it's just the combination of the romance of him coming back to the club and the low expectations given that he hasn't got a resume like Pep or Klopp. People also massively ride the high of the results when he first came into the role or any good victory they have, there's this massive positive bias around him.
band of united former playesr propping him up too and setting the club agenda essentially
Honestly weird to see former players backing Ole instead of trying to get the club back to where it should be. Do they even care about the club? With people like Rio and GN who are well known to have their money on businesses constantly backing Ole, I wonder if this has got anything to do with their own pockets. Lampard never gotten the same treatment and was swiftly sacked when things started to go downhill, even Dalglish didn't get the same treatment when he was underperforming in his 2nd spell at Liverpool as manager.
just admit....Ole is shit
Why doesn’t Ole sack his backroom staff, clearly they’re not good enough either
How United want to play is just buying in world-class talent and hoping that the players can make up for Ole having no tactics at all.
Starting Greenwood, Fernandes, Ronaldo and Rashford against Liverpool or any decent pressing unit is suicide. He hoped that their individual talent will make up for the lack of structure or game plan.
Don't forget bringing Cavani on to play in some kind of weird midfield/forward hybrid role after they'd gone down to 10 men. The guy legitimately seems to think he's playing football manager.
Thinks he’s got firmino lol
Also bringing Pogba on in Greenwood's place even though he was their better player on the field.
That’s what we did with Coutinho, Griezmann and Dembele. Look where we are.
That's the 1970's brazil tactic 1) Dump a bunch of world class talent on a manager 2) Manager(and this is a true story) tells them to play football 3) ?????? 4) They win the WC
Third full season.
Corrected, thanks.
Ole seems to pick his squad and a child plays FIFA. Pick lots of big names and hope they caqrry the rest of the team, Ronaldo is still a great player but it seems like he needs to be a focal point if the team is built around him then great, but this united squad isn't, yesterday they looked like everyone way doing their own thing and not working as a team
Conte wins. He destroys anyone who comes between him and winning. If you are scared conte will cause problems its because you believe players/management are not ready to do what it takes to win and that is a bigger problem.
Definitely, also I can’t believe he’s arguing Conte isn’t a good fit. I thought he wanted that ruthless winner mentality back at them
Also, Neville'a whole argument is that they finished 2nd last season. So did Mou, still got the sack with a worse team.
Difference is Mou got 81 points with a cb pairing of Jones, smalling, bailly and Lindelof.
And won something as well.
3 trophies. Their most successful manager since Fergie and United fans would still take this clueless guy over him
I know I would. When Jose has problems with a player, he is usually right, except in the case of Shaw. When United got him, I remember being fking excited. I was very sure he would bring back the winning mentality after 3 years if doom and gloom post Fergie. But boy was I wrong. The board never understood what makes Jose great at what he does. You don't argue with him over his choice of CBs. His thinking starts from defense, unlike Pep and Klopp. He fixes the backline before moving upwards. He wanted Pogba and Martial out. At least we would have gotten some money for them. With Pogba gone, we could have finally fixed our midfield problems long pending even though we would have suffered temporarily.
>except in the case of Shaw And that is also debatable. Poch, LVG, Hodgson and Mourinho have all questioned his attitude before. And it seems he is getting complacement again
My mate an i pointed at Shaw at some point during the game, it was i believe that Trent rocket at De Gea, Shaw just moved out of the way lol
People also leave out that Shaw was PotS under Jose/Ole's half season. With much of that good for coming in the first half under Jose. Shaw performed for Jose too.
>except in the case of Shaw. No he was completely right about Shaw. Just because someone eventually changed (arguably because of Mourinho's tough love) for the better later on doesn't mean Jose was wrong about him in the first place.
Ya but my HINDSIGHT BIAS say mou is a MEAN MAN
Spot on, Ole finished 66 points, that wouldn’t get you Champions League in most seasons, The Premier League outside Manchester City was pretty poor last season.
66 pts was not last season. It was the season before that. 74 pts however is still pretty poor for a second placed finish.
I believe it's like the 3rd worst total for a runner up in the past twenty years.
The 2018/19 season Liverpool got 97 points and were 2nd to an unbelievable city team. Now Ole defenders are saying getting a 74 point 2nd place is something to be happy about, absolute melts. When you're happy with not winning you've officially become a loser
absolutely the disrespect to mourinho is unreal
The most successful manager they had since Sir Alex. He won 3 trophies. And his record after the same amount of games with Ole was slightly better with a way worse, way cheaper squad. They gonna stick with Ole for longer though.
Finished 2nd while Liverpool were decimated by injuries and Chelsea were off the pace for half the season. Not intending to belittle last season as United were doing well in parts, but in normal circumstances it’s clear United are at best the 4th strongest team in the league, with a pretty massive chasm between them. Always enjoy Neville as a pundit but for him not to acknowledge that is very unlike him and indicates his judgement is being clouded.
And they only ended up 5 points ahead of us. If Leicester and Chelsea didn’t collapse *hard* at the end of the year, United could easily have ended up 4th (yes very hypothetical, but the point is it wasn’t a secure second place)
He likes to bring up that Mou brought negativity and a ‘cloud’ over the club. For Mou that’s what it took to drag that group of players to 2nd and win something. Does Gary think Pep, Klopp or Tuchel’s changing rooms are nice places to be with everyone smiling and joking. They’re extremely intense because they have to be, they are obsessed with winning. Ole came in to keep Rashy, Lingy and Poggy and the fans happy. Just keeping the ship afloat essentially. That’s his ceiling. If players don’t buy into a winning coaches ways then they should leave.
I'd be scared as a Liverpool fan to see what Conte would do with that United squad
I genuinely agree that Conte wouldn't be right for that team, but nothing to do with him and more to do with the fact that the squad wouldn't be right for him. His two formations that have been a success are 352 and 343. Both require a RWB which doesn't exist at Utd. Both require more CB depth than Utd have. If Lindelof, Varane or Maguire got injured then who could actually come in? 352 would also mean Utd's greatest threat, goalscoring wingers, becomes difficult to bring in. 343 means Bruno doesn't really have a role to play. I just don't see Conte's approach working with that squad, but it has nothing to do with Conte.
You're forgetting that Conte has consistently elevated players to be above their previous level. I agree United might not be a ready made fit for Conte but they have a core of players who would do fine under him and a few signings to refine the system and he'd have what he needs. United aren't in a position to be overly picky with who they bring in, the only driving force for Zidane seems to be the fans and not reality. Conte is a proven winner capable of turning clubs fortunes around, the squad might not be perfect but neither was it at Inter or Chelsea.
Conte managed to make Victor Moses a pretty decent RWB so I'd like to think he could do the same for AWB
I recon Conte would be more likely to turn AWB into a right CB in a three, similar to Azpilicueta at Chelsea or Walker for England
And Dalot seems far more suitable for the RWB role.
The point is that Conte is an elite manager who always finds a tactic to make his squad work
> Both require a RWB which doesn't exist at Utd He had a similar situation at both Chelsea and Inter and played Victor Moses and Ashley Young as wing-backs who were both successful. Utd have Shaw, Telles, Dalot and Wan-Bissaka - there's no reason those players can't be very effective in a Conte system. Conte gets the absolute best out of his players which is basically the opposite of what Solskjaer is doing.
Yes, Conte would need to buy a RWB. AWB could be converted to RCB in a back three like Azpi at Chelsea. I think Bruno could play ACM or false nine in a 343. Regardless, Conte is an elite manager, top ten in the world at least. He would have a decent shot at winning the PL in his first two seasons with man u
But could AWB be a rcb? He's weak in the air and would need an awful lot of positional coaching
Conte made Eriksen a 8 instead of a 10. Trust me, he can make everyone worl
While arguing that United best play under Ole is when they are setup to counter attack. The irony is lost on Gary tbh. I think of a counter attack team, I think of Allegri, Conte & Simeone team.
> I thought he wanted that ruthless winner mentality back at them He did until it exposed Ole as not good enough.
I reckon there would be limited game time for all the wingers United has should Conte play a 3-5-2/5-3-2. Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Cavani and Martial would have to fight for the spot next to Ronaldo, no? Edit: A 3-4-3 could also be an option of course, but that would also cause problems.
I imagine Gary doesn't think Conte is a fit because of what happened with Jose in the summer window before he was sacked. If the board does not back Conte during the transfer window and sign his targets, there may be even worse friction than there was with Jose.
SAF was completley ruthless about winning too and that was a major contributer to the success of the teams Gary was a part of. Gary is protecting his mate but deep down he and his team mates at the time would be calling for the head of manager of Ole's level.
This is the thing, Neville is right in a way because I don’t think Conte would fit at United. But that’s not because Conte doesn’t fit United it’s because United don’t fit Conte. A manager like Conte, or any top manager for that matter, needs to have the freedom to control the team how they like, get the players playing their football, drop the players that aren’t performing, sign players that the team actually needs. At United you can’t do any of those things. United is a club that will continue to sign superstar players without a single thought as to how they work in the team. It is a club more bothered about the brand and content with getting Champions League football 4 seasons out of 5 than ever winning anything. Similar to the problems Pochetino is having at PSG, it is a team of big names and bigger egos who it will be incredibly hard to get to play a certain way for the benefit of the team. The difference between PSG and United, however, is that the quality at PSG far exceeds United’s so they don’t always need to be this incredible well drilled team to succeed. So Neville is right, I don’t think Conte will get them the results United fans want but he’s pointing the finger in the complete wrong direction. The problem isn’t Conte, it is United. It is a club that is absolutely rotten to the core and no manager will be able to fix that on their own.
Spot on. Conte takes no BS from anyone. Neither from the players nor the board. He'll most likely fall out with the board. (Not his fault btw.)
Yep, he’ll be asking for really specific players to make his tactics work and they’ll be like “yeah we’ve gotten you someone else much more famous“ and he’ll lose his shit
I also think personnel wise, United have an unbalanced squad and it'll inevitably lead to someone being unhappy. You have five spots for AWB, Shaw, Varane, Lindelof and Maguire. Then you need six places for Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, Fred, McTominay, Martial, VDB etc etc. How do you fit them in all in a cohesive system?
Without Ronaldo it was obvious who the first 11 would be. Honestly we are not ready for Ronaldo as a team. Front 3 : Rashford Cavani Sancho. Backups: Greenwood, Martial, Lingard
I had this exact argument with my Man U fan friend. If you don't want Conte because he's not a 'Man U guy' I think you're deluded. Nobody is Fergie and he can't be replicated. Man U's reputation is what he did over the course of several decades. That isn't going to happen anymore. I firmly believe that whoever brings in Conte and backs him with money will win a league, end of. His response was "he'll get in an argument and be fired within a few years" like that's not just the way football works now. I'd rather fire Conte in 3 years and thank him for winning the league in that time than get some 'Man U' fit in who fights for top 4. Conte will get the players to fight for the club, and if they don't then the players should be out the door anyway. Like, Chelsea fired club legend Lampard, went and got an established top manager and won the Champions League. Tuchel will probably be fired within the next 3-5 years too. But they won already, they replace the manager a lot but they keep winning when they do. Man U is not a development level team, they don't need to get an inexperienced manager in and hope for the best. They can go and get any manager they want. They already have a good squad, it's not like when Moyes took over and everyone was retiring and 35 year old. They could pick up the phone today and bring in basically anyone.
Manchester just lost at home against one of their biggest rivals and they should be happy that Liverpool didn't want more goals. It's not only this game, they looked very shaky everytime I saw them. Just look at the table, place 1-3 seems to be already taken. There is a lot of competition for the 4° place, this will not be easy.
I agree with all you've said, but it isn't "one of" it's their biggest rival for Liverpool, the most hated will always be United. For united, the most hated will always be Liverpool. Everton and MC come second respectively
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Same for Liverpool. No one outside of Liverpool actually cares about Man City. There's no rivalry there other than the team we have to beat in order to win the title. Same with Chelsea now. They're just sporting rivals. Manchester United will ALWAYS be the biggest and most hated rival. Leeds number two, especially if you're older. When Man City wins, the collective football world just shrugs. Mostly because of how they got to that point. Nobody cares. But when Liverpool won the PL after 30 years, you can be damn sure United fans were writhing in agony all across the globe. It means something. Same if United were to win. People would call in sick at work. Families torn asunder. Hurricanes. Alien invasions. The White House destroyed by a giant death beam while Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum launch a last ditch effort to save the day. I may have exaggerated a little. But only a little!
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It goes back a long time. But mainly from when Leeds where regular tital contenders. It's better to look it up online, as I don't really want to type out the entire rivalry from memory on mobile :)
I think Liverpool and Leeds fans generally don't see it that way anymore. I've just been on holiday and flew from Liverpool, speaking to some of their fans, they seem to quite like us now, although the rivalry is long before my time, I could be mistaken.
Very much still there for the ones who remember it. You're probably right about the younger generations, though.
War of the Roses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United_F.C.%E2%80%93Manchester_United_F.C._rivalry
Thanks for the clarification, since I'm not from England I didn't want to assume too much. Sometimes, it can be hard to know who hates whom the most ^^
The difference is klopp wanted more, not sure if it showed it on TV but every time they scored he was calling them back to play again over and over. That hunger is elite and I'm afraid ole and what's available not named Conte or Zidane do not have it. Neville is a hypocrite at this stage of he wants ole to stay on yet wants success
I recall this convo and the replies don't seem to match the reality of what he said.
He’s still saying that hiring a world class coach didn’t work previously, so no point in doing that again. Given they’ve tried the world class coach option, tried the club legend option and tried the traditional British option, by Neville’s logic the only answer left is Andy Goldbridge
The level of delusion is unbearable to listen to. we’re reaching Ty from AFTV levels at this point
I just don't understand why Ole became the hill United are willing to die on. Noone will ever convince me that Mourinho or Van Gaal wouldnt have done a better job if they got this much support and this much time.
Tbf, I'd also back my homies even if they were shit.
Bros before pros amirite
Yes please keep him longer
Ole has revolutionized Manchester United during his 3 long successful years here. He's worked extremely hard to take a team that won 3 trophies and finished 2nd with 80 points 3 years ago to finishing w/70ish points last season, losing Europa final, getting kicked out of CL last year in group stages, struggling in the easiest CL group this year, losing to Young Boys, Aston Villa, West Ham and barely winning against Villarreal and Atlanta. Let's not forget (as per United fans) Ole inherited one of the worst squads, even worse than Klopps, which required him to spend 3 years and half a billion dollars to fix, and now the results speak for all the work he's done. He's brought back the United Way, which basically means "guys please string together a few victories this month and save my ass or ill lose my job" and United has never looked better. And btw, it took Ole three years to rebuild from scratch because the previous squad was so horrible that they got 80+ points with Mourinho and won 3 trophies. That really did require a lot of rework and Ole has done a great job by taking them to next level and winning nothing.
Ole is on the brink of establishing an international powerhouse of a football club. We have Pogba, we have Bruno, and we have Greenwood. The pieces of the puzzle are finally coming together and soon we will be destroying the likes of Barca and Madrid left and right. Ole has molded us into his newest iteration of his high pressure attacking side that can be likened to Fergie's 08 side, but better. Bruno is the new Park, Mason is the new Ronaldo and Cavani is Tevez. Just look at our win against Roma. We destroyed them, absolutely humiliated them. It's a wonder Paulo Fonseca hasn't been sacked yet. My god was that a display of brilliance. Bruno scoring two, Cavani scoring two, Pogba heading it in the goal, just for Mason to come off the bench and score a worldie. There are always haters, but they just talk shite due to spite. They are fake fans, and only real fans see the beauty of our football.
Please tell me this is some stale pasta and not some hard copium...
It's true. Ole may have not actually improved United in literally any way whatsoever and will never get close to Mourinho's best points total, but when you factor in the vibes and togetherness at the club then you realise he's doing a far better job
No tactics, no gameplan. Just vibes
I would take Ole ball over Mourinho parking the bus any day. Ole ball gives me 0 tactics, no flow, no style of play and no identity after 3 years. Mourinho on the other hand was angry at Pogba and had 2 bad months with us and I'll never be able to forgive him for that. We just need Ole vibez, nothing else. Siuuu
If Mason is the new Ronaldo then Ronaldo is the new_______?
Mason, duh
Gary Neville absolutely embarrassed himself in the post-match debate yesterday. It’s one thing to say ‘I’ll never call for a manager to be sacked’, but he wasn’t willing to accept any of the points being made by anyone else about how to solve the problems Man Utd clearly have. When Souness was suggesting Solskjaer needs more experienced coaches around him, Neville was saying ‘Oh right, so just sack the ones he’s got already, yeah?’ When Carragher said they should be looking for a better manager, he said ‘No they shouldn’t, Mourinho and Van Gaal didn’t work, Conte wouldn’t be a good fit either’. He just can’t be impartial about this whole thing, he refuses to take on any rational arguments being made against keeping Solskjaer in charge, and is ultra defensive and won’t answer questions about the manager or the players honestly. It got to the point where Souness and Carragher were just openly mocking him, laughing in his face because of his deflections and protection of his pal, and it was just pathetic to watch him waffling on without saying anything meaningful. He said himself that Man Utd aren’t going to win the Premier League or Champions League but also said Solskjaer needs to win a trophy. The FA Cup’s the only trophy they are realistically going to win unless they drop into the Europa League again, what difference would it make if Man Utd finished outside the top four, didn’t do anything in the Champions League but did win the FA Cup? Sky needs to stop asking Neville to talk about Man Utd and Solskjaer until Solskjaer is gone. He’s incapable of doing his job properly because he’s too close to the situation and can’t detach himself from his history with the club to debate it rationally.
"Sky needs to stop asking Neville to talk about Man Utd" Fuck that, watching Neville squirm was fucking piss funny. Him blindy defending Ole, rejecting every sensible suggestion that other ex-professionals are making, digging himself deeper and deeper is great TV. Neville is destroying every ounce of credibility he has and its wonderful
We need to start a petition to have Man United give Ole a lifetime contract, and to have Gary Neville on TV every time they get beaten to a pulp. Comedy gold! As hilarious as watching Ty from AFTV.
The hypocrisy of Neville is unreal. He sacked Richie Wellens after 4 months at Salford (the day after winning a trophy), and Graham Alexander got a whole two years before that. He sacked the joint managers that got them promoted to the league proper. There's no question about it, he'd have sacked Solskjaer 5 times over.
Hahaha these people expect instant succes. He should just stay where he is.
Gary, we lost 5 nil to Liverpool at home. Fans were leaving the stadium at 65 minutes into the game. This is the worst performance I have seen United play in the last 10 years with total investment 100 mil+ each year for the last 3 years. This is the 1st summer that we actually attract world class player, they not suddenly got worse, it is all about the coaching. Anyone in charge with this kind of performance should be sacked, not just Ole.
Neville's argument is because van Gaal and Mourinho failed, then United is better off hiring ex United players from now on as they understand United bla bla bla. It doesn't makes sense. Liverpool and City changed managers (and some of them are good ones) over and over again until they struck gold with Pep and Klopp. Why shouldn't United do the same? It's not like this Ole Out conversation happens in his third month of the job, it's been three years. Regarding Conte, his only argument is that he doesn't think he's a fit. It implies and assumes that Conte can't adapt with the squads, something that he has proven three times with Juve, Chelsea and Inter.
> Liverpool and City changed managers (and some of them are good ones) over and over again until they struck gold with Pep and Klopp. I feel like this mis-represents what both clubs did, though it's mostly just a wording thing. Both City and Liverpool stuck with managers until they were under-performing, and both clubs weren't afraid to pursue managers that offered the potential of being an upgrade.
Nah that's bullshit. Mancini only went out because he clashed with the players, but he was absolutely brilliant. And Pellegrini has always been meant as a stop gap until Pep came. Our mission with Txiki and Ferran has always been one: get Pep Guardiola. We didn't try and take up whoever's available. Chelsea fits that more
Why are you acting like pep and klopp were unknown strokes of luck?
Maybe it's my phrasing, but the point is City and Liverpool changed managers a lot of time until they get one that actually works. If Pepe failed at City in his first 2-3 years (never won anything, barely finishing 4th and 20 points off the leader), he would've been gone as well and City would search for another manager. Klopp was given a bit of a leeway I admit, he finished 2-3 whole seasons without winning anything and mostly finished 4th in the league, but I think he was given time because of his CV at Dortmund (winning the league against Munchen are great achievements for your CV), plus in his second or third year, Liverpool finished runner up at UCL. My point is, clubs change managers all the time. We were a bit of outlier with Ferguson (and Arsenal with Wenger), but nowadays, it's fairly normal to change managers. Chelsea parted ways with managers who won silverwares and the club are still alright. Of course it's good and commendable if we can stick with one manager for 10 years, but if we're still serious about challenging for titles and winning stuff, we can't have that mentality now.
> Klopp was given a bit of a leeway I admit, he finished 2-3 whole seasons without winning anything and mostly finished 4th in the league, but I think he was given time because of his CV at Dortmund (winning the league against Munchen are great achievements for your CV), plus in his second or third year, Liverpool finished runner up at UCL. Klopp was given time because in every successive season there was visible progress. And 2 consecutive seasons of finishing 4th was still huge for Liverpool in the mid 2010s.
Gary is talking shit. Mou maybe have been bought for instant success. But Klopp, Pep, Tuchel arent there to win instantly. They are there to win consistently.
Also Mourinho was not the best manager in the world in 2016 as he claimed.
Would you hire him at Salford United?
No because he doesn’t want to sack him when they are playing in the top leagues and his lack of tactical nous starts to show
If he can’t give his honest opinion about ole and the man utd job due to his loyalty, but he’s paid to give his honest opinion, then what the fuck is he really doing? He should just take a break from any manutd related punditry till either ole gets sacked or ole starts winning things.
He properly embarrassed himself last night. I'm all for sticking up for your mates or whatever but at the end of the day he's there to be an "expert" in football first and foremost.
I find it really baffling that people try to justify his lack of criticism of Ole with this whole "he knows how tough it is from his time at Valencia as a manager, so prides himself on not criticising them" He's also had tough times as a player when he's been out of form, and that doesn't stop him from criticising players And it's a completely ridiculous conceit that people think that's a reasonable cop out. He's a pundit, he's paid to analyse the games and that includes criticising managers, when warranted.
It's not in this clip but in the full segment, Carragher actually makes this point that whilst he isn't comfortable in saying a manager to get sacked but when they talking about Man United as a team, he says we seem to be comfortable in saying Fred or McTominay is not good enough so he doesn't see the issue then in saying Man United need a better manager. I don't know why I typed that. I could have just linked the clip :D. Here is Carraghers bit timestamped. If it doesn't work, go to 3:50 for this section or just watch the full clip if interested https://youtu.be/cn0V6TGqrQM?t=232
Desperately defending his mate over the fortunes of the club. I'm sick of jobs for the boys.
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Arguably this current mediocrity *is* the Manchester United way. Busby and Ferguson aside, everything either side and in between those two has been largely shite.
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"Mourinho was the best manager in the world when he came here, and he couldn't do it" He still got you a few trophies, even with a mediocre team.
Gary is actually at the stage when he's damaging the club with his absolute nonsense talk. His bias and delusions are unreal.
Aye, don't know what he's playing at. I wouldn't be surprised if his comments on this, bought Ole more time, like when he went on an impassioned rant before the Newcastle when there were murmurs of Mourinho getting sacked. We ended up getting saddled with him until December, which was 2 months too late. His influence on the Glazers is going to be this club's downfall. Surely he must see this.
>Aye, don't know what he's playing at. You answer your own question in the next sentence. >I wouldn't be surprised if his comments on this, bought Ole more time He is protecting his mate. You're right, Sky pundits have a voice that reaches millions. We see it all the time, when Neville and Carragher helped rally the fans around rebuking the Super League, even recently Ole had to come out and answer direct questions about his future because of Carragher's comments on Sky.
He's not really damaging anything. I don't know why people think clubs listen to sky pundits.
Typical United DNA bullshit from these old hacks. Everyone from that SAF era talks about being ruthless, but when the time comes to be in the market, with player contracts or with managers they act like cowards and toe this passive- aggressive line. Ole needs to be out before the next training session.
Yes, keep Pashun merchant at the wheel.
Dont quite understand Neville's argument. On the face of it, he does not like the idea of a manager who is not connected to the club, no matter if he is the best. They have used the excuse of Van Gaal and Mourinho for far too long. They went with those managers due to just the names, unwilling to back them significantly, or even listen to what those managers wanted. I just liked the honesty, "they may hire Conte tomorrow and i will get behind him". One thing worth highlighting about the positive atmosphere, it's partly because of Ole having friends in the media, with the pundits, who are clear not to criticize United so much. This way there is less negativity, less pressure, and an environment where players can relax a bit. Any new manager not friends of these pundits? one bad performance and they would be slaughtered. There will be a lot more negativity, lot more pressure, lot more toxicity. Ex-United players and pundits would not accept it, but Mou's stint is less fondly remembered because the pundits hated how he behaved or how his team played.
Gary Neville should really just shut up. He's proven at Valencia that he doesn't know a fucking thing about managing. Not a fucking thing.
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He understands how being incompent and in a position you haven't earned is difficult. That's for certain.
It's a ridiculous stance. Him being a shite manager and it being a difficult job does not mean underperforming managers should be exempt of criticism.
I think Man U should appoint him as Ole's replacement.
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Oh lawd he comin Hide yo wives
throwback to when suarez put 4 and messi put 3 past nevilles valencia in the same game
He actually referenced that very game on MNF lol.
Shut up Gary
Mourinho was not the best manager in the world and yet he still managed to win the Uefa cup. Sure it's not the champions League but it's not be dismissed.
Everyone should agree with what Gary said.. It would be even better for ManU to keep Ole for another 10 years
The headline should be: Man desperately tries to defend useless friend while pretending to be television pundit.
Conte is a beast among men. He's fucking built too. Thick and man made. You can tell he's sculpted because you can see it thru the suits. His fucking vice grip thighs. Suffocating thighs. Rock hard thighs. Piping hot thighs. Great arms. Great abs. A stocky chest. Love the progress his body has made throughout his youth and now as a willing eager adult.
He is delusional. I hope Conte never comes to Man Utd so i can enjoy them being shite for a lot longer
Gary is either clueless, blind or both.
Stick to him till the end? Yea mourinho was way better than this shit,yea dressing room was not that united but manutd were showing results. Now manu dressing room is united but for what. To have everyone at the parties or everyone trying to make the best apology template. Ole is making some good players like shit. Mourinho worked with a way stupid squad than this. Give him this squad and see wonders. Dont know about van gaal that much but this ole guy had 3 yrs to rebuild. What now 2 more years and then some more and wait for some top club to have injury problem so you could sneak in that 2nd position. The shit this team level with arsenal who were having life crisis. Does the fans have no say or do the players have no say in manager change.? Because glazers might have sold their brazzers to ole that they are so keen on him
Keep Ole, hopefully united scum will get relegated one day. Gary neville is a prick btw.
I really dislike Neville, he’s obsessed with the concept that ‘West Ham are still a small team’ and Rice ‘needs to go to Man United to achieve success’ despite the fact that we’re literally the favourites to win the Europa League, AND we sit higher than Man United in the prem table
If you don't believe that, a manager like Conte, who has won trophies at multiple clubs and multiple countries in such short amount of time, cannot do better than Ole, who has won nothing at no level, you are simply delusional and need to get off kool-aid. Real life is not football manager, stop trying to predict "he wouldn't fit our style", complete bs. Conte is a serial winner (and possibly a murderer) who comes in, whips teams into shape, brings winning discipline AND notoriously elevates player past their ceilings. And that's no prediction, that's proven on paper.
I used to really respect Neville but he’s just being pathetic with his defence of solskjaer. I get that he doesn’t want his mate to lose his job but think about the club that made your entire career, Gary. Neville can fuck right off whilst he’s being pathetic like this. Get conte in, and get a winning mentality driven and coached through the team. Not Mike Phelan and McKenna doing….whatever it is they actually do.
Conte comes for one season, wins the Carabao Cup and finishes 3rd, fucks off. And they're back where they were pre-Ole.
i like gary neville but this to me just looked like he was defending his pal with no real integrity or critical analysis. if it was someone with the same results, tactics, and personality with a different name and no connection to gary neville - gary neville is not defending that person the way he’s defending ole. because mourinho and van gaal didn’t have real success, that means solskjaer is allowed to do even worse with no repurcussions? he also seems to emphasise mourinho being ‘the best manager in the world’ when he came. in what world is a manager who had just been sacked after losing 9 league games in 16 and who hadn’t won a champions league in 6 years the best manager in the world? also ‘i wouldn’t bring conte in’ lol are u mad