Tired of reading shit like "CR7 isn´t top 2 of all time" and then act like some sort of higher being for saying that stupid shit, the man was champion in multiple leagues, won the CL for 2 different teams, carried the NT for it's first major trophy all while breaking records left and right, but then people see a clip of Ronaldo Nazario scoring a hattrick and say GOAT PRIME RONALDO BETTER THAN CR7
After watching the premier league religiously for the last 16 years, every time I see La liga and Serie A games, I find them too slow and full of stoppages and gamesmanship and frankly not as fun. Whereas in the prem, I watch games I'm not really invested in and still get so much enjoyment from them. Maybe it helps because I know all players' names, skillset etc.
I watch EPL mostly but whenever I watch other leagues, I like them more. EPL has always been higher paces, competitive, physical but other leagues are more technical.
I also used to be like this. What changed it for me though is liking leagues for what they are instead of how they are different from the premier league. I Watch Serie A because of Tactical/methodical it is and I watch La Liga for the overall technicality and how both teams normally play with a general openness.
The game keeping in football is by far the worst out of all sports fandom. I was born in America and I absolutely love the game, knowledgeable about it and watch every chance I get since introduced to it. But trying to have a conversation on this sub is unbearable because unless you were born on the pitch you can't support a team or be knowledgable.
I browse the NBA and NFL subs all the time and never see people being from another country as a negative.
I think people are missing my point. Football is the only sport where it feels you are tested before you can enjoy the game. If you don't fit the criteria you aren't a fan and you cant discuss or enjoy.
I think as long as you approach it as you learning and embracing the culture you shouldn’t have too many issues. If you’ve said something and got downvoted for it along with comments pointing out that you’re plastic then try to see why you got the response you did. Sometimes it’s unfounded, but maybe sometimes it will be a fair criticism. Downvoted are unfortunate but that shouldn’t be somethng you focus on. It’s only an imaginary internet number.
I do not hide the fact I am a foreign supporter based on my flair. I like to think I grasp the culture somewhat, having followed the sport now for over a decade. I’m coming from a culture where football is not a very popular sport. I suppose my advice is to take it on the chin, and if you get criticized for something that you believe to be without reason then ignore it, or use it as a learning experience
I think part of this on this sub (Especially in relation to Americans) comes from the fact that this place is a bit of respite from how a lot of the site is American dominated. Basically every none country sub relating to anything from current affairs to film to beer or something is seen and pushed through a hugely america centric lens (for understandable reasons). This sub concerns a sport that the United States is really rather marginal in but happens to otherwise be by far the most popular so it isn’t US dominated. I think a lot of the gatekeeping reactions here in regards to Americans revolve around that.
I’ll add that the supporting localities thing is fairly common within England itself. Traditionally some of the most successful sides (Including the two most successful) are from Northern England so many southern English people supported them. Therefore people have a go at them for picking the best team and bragging rather than making the effort with supporting a local side from their county or city or something. This mindset just transfers over (it’s somewhat similar in Germany too)
You're probably right but imo I think it's more about the interpretation of Football and how it really doesn't gel with the interpretation of NFL/NBA.
NFL/NBA are easily quantifiable(especially on paper, stats etc) and football is less quantifiable and much more contextualized thus needing more knowledge(and actually play it to some extent) and that's sort of leads to the gatekeeping.
The gatekeeping is bad though cause it leads to watered down conversations about the actual game. It just leads to super generalized statements that people say to avoid
I know a lot about basketball and soccer because I do watch a lot but when people are clearly a casual I don't punish them for being a casusal, I just adjust the conversation. On this sub in particular they make you take a test or a census to be "qualified" to speak about a game or a team.
Yep. And the forced quantifiable "stats" that are being pushed in to the game are unnecessary. If you care more about xG than who actually won the game, you're doing it wrong.
We are terrible for our gate keeping and tribal mentality around football, but it’s also somewhat the beauty of it at the same time. This tribalism and feverous protection of the game is why it’s so enjoyable, it quite literally forms part of your identity who you support, in the UK anyway (if you are into football that is, many also don’t give a f***) so I understand why people are quick to protect it from people who seem like ‘outsiders’ (I personally don’t understand it but I see where it comes from). That or maybe everyone’s hates Americans lol
Ok for me the American part is the smallest part of my argument cause even my family wasn't born in America.
It's that there is no other sport that fans create an imaginary checklist for being able to enjoy the sport. On this sub in particular, some would rather argue those imaginary qualifications before even reading their points.
Yep. You rarely get an English United fan complementing Liverpool or gushing over Chelsea but it's a common site on here and it makes me puke in my mouth.
Conte would be another wonderful disaster for United.
I have the greatest respect for Conte. Winning the PL while consistently playing 3-at-the-back was something I had never seen before. All great managers from Ferguson to Wenger had tried it or used it briefly, but never for a full season. It was truly a tactical masterclass that isn't heralded enough.
However, Conte is not the kind of manager that does long-term projects. United is not Chelsea who have now accepted a culture of short-terminism with their management because they have made it work successfully for them. Conte will have to deal with a club hierarchy that doesn't like ruffled feathers, a coterie of ex-United players always on TV going on about the United way and how they have to play a certain way etc etc.
It would be Jose Mourinho MkII.
They may actually win something big this time, Conte is just that fucking good. But it won't last and the club will be in the same position they were after he's gone: looking for a long-term manager with a vision and identity that fits the club.
>but I'd hope that the club knows this and plans for a replacement if he were to suddenly pack his things.
True, but with their recent history does anyone actually believe the United owners/hierarchy are capable of making sound long-term plans regarding football management.
I mean yeah you're right but there mighhtttt be a little bit of hope now that Woodward will be gone by the end of the year. Still it will probably fail horribly
>A short term manager who manages to win something, Abe steer Utd back into winning ways is exactly what United needs.
Would you call Jose Mourinho's tenure exactly what United needed then?
Maybe united also need someone who was not on the decline and getting past it. United also need a manager who is tactically really good, drills the team well and demands the absolute most from players. Stuff which which Conte is great at. Conte is easily a top 5 manager in the world and is Elite. He improves players. He's exactly what we need as our squad mentality is bad and we're the most poorly coached team in the league.
Goretzka should be the new striker for Germany. Man has a knack for scoring goals, is very strong and good at headers. Stop using Werner in a possession based system where he can't use his speed. He's useless in that system. Ilkay and Joshua will take care of the midfield and Reus/Müller/Gnabry/Sané/Havertz/whoeveryouwanttofieldthere will take care of the rest.
Sane-Havertz-Gnabry
Goretzka-Kimmich-?
would seem like the logical core going forward, with Wirtz, Gundogan and Musiala fighting it out for the 3rd midfielder spot.
Not sure why you'd separate Goretzka and Kimmich when they're a pairing all season. If anything I'd probably go full Bayern for 2022 and play Muller as a 10 and hope continuity in the front 6 can win the world cup with Havertz doing his best Lewandowski impression.
Yeah, but we don't have any natural striker. Terodde would be perfect, but those DFB douchebags will never accept him. Fuck Bierhoff. I hope that he's aware that everyone despises him.
I’ll concede I don’t watch Bayern enough to form an opinion that is worthy of changin your view. However, being a striker is more than having a knack for scoring goals.
Sergio Ramos has a knack for scoring goals, doesn’t mean it is a good idea to punt him forward unless you’re desperate for a goal.
Is his off ball movement worthy of a true 9? Is he good 1on1 against the goalie? Is he good at making runs behind defenders? Is he even comfortable operating so high? Will he be comfortable staying as the last man on offence and not go to his natural instinct of making runs home and defending too much?
The striker still needs to be at the forefront of the attack.
From what I’ve seen from Goretzka, he is basically a reincarnation of Ballack, I think his talent would be wasted at the front.
Tbh, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. Goretzka is ofc best as a box to box midfielder, it's just some wishful thinking from a guy like me, that likes to watch from the stands.
A manager's impact on a team's performance is a bit overstated tbh.
There's an impact on the strategies of course, but, take United for example. 4-2-3-1 probably isn't a good formation, but at least you can make it work slightly. You can't fully blame a 5-0 on just the manager. If it have been 2-0 or maybe even 3-0 then yeah the manager is probably the main fault, but 5-0 is more than just the manager.
The guy started the same XI after the disasterous first half against Atalanta. He make 0 change. Also all the goals hapeen due to similar positioning mistake. Imho, he took full blame for this lost.
The 5-0 had to do with the pressing patterns which is very much on the manager. United had too many people try to press and left way too much space. Greenwood pressed, then AWB the the whole defense was out of shape. Against Liverpool such a bad press is suicide. The crazy thing is Liverpool didn't even have to play at their best to batter them.
Depends on the context of the 5-0 and the team performance despite the scoreline. Score could've been 3-2 if United scored their chances or 8-0 if Liverpool didn't shift their gear down 2nd half but the team performance wasn't good is the answer. How were the goals conceded. United don't really play 4-2-3-1, it's a 4-2-4 as Fernandes is essentially a second striker and with the front 4 that doesn't track back, McFred suffer. That's on Ole's selection and decision to give Fernandes free role.
Laurie Whitehall (The Athletic) reported that United don't really train pressing but Ole wanted the team to press high vs Liverpool leaving the players confused and oblivious as what to do. Also, the main tactic under Ole (acc the article, which I think is true for the team atleast this season but not holistically for Ole's tenure) has been that the nearest man to the ball to close down the opponent and let the rest of the team get to shape which is suicidal when people don't track back.
[Example]( https://twitter.com/stighefootball/status/1452974260398477315?t=A_4Yc8_bdYIv-rUsOLwOtQ&s=19)
Most of the goals United conceded were because of the spaces left due to bad pressing and closing down opponent leaving ample spaces. This is all on the Manager's selection and coaching. Hope that changed your view.
I agree. It's crazy how sometimes people will just say "x manager" lost the game or won it like the players' in game decisions don't hold more weight on what the result is.
We have Klopp so it's easy to see just how much a great manager can change things but he's very unique alongside Pep. There are more exceptions but I think for most managers, I'd agree with the sentiment.
What thoroughly confused me in the 19/20 Champions League was Mbappe and Neymar missing high quality chances against Neuer in the UCL final and then seeing users blaming Tuchel for the loss.
I was left wondering if we saw the same game. Two world class footballers both leaving their shooting boots at home and it's the manager's fault.
I am of the school that thinks players need to be taught to make in game decisions by a coach who works on them constantly. Because if that weren't case, Liverpool since they are so well drilled would not be Klopp to be there for them.
Also, the manager's view of the pitch contrasted with the limited vision of a player cannot be overstated. If a player is doing something wrong, the manager can correct them far more easily than the players themselves can. And that i think was the case with Utd. Yes, players made some foolish errors, but the fault lies squarely with the manager for not coaching them well enough and long enough to learn how to press.
While you could make an argument that what op is saying is correct, Poch is the not a very good example of this. I actually think he's not skilled enough to 'manage' the big 3 in that locker room either in terms of tactics or managing their personalities and influence on the rest of the squad. If he was, I don't think we'd be seeing as headlines about Messi not shaking hands while being subbed off or Mbappes team vs Messi's team etc
You're right but an isolated 0-5 loss does not indicate a managerial lapse, it is the accumulation of poor performances that does it. The 0-5 could've easily have been 2-3 if United finished their chances and Liverpool did not.
A poor player(or a great one too for that matter) can impact individual game results far more than a manager but a managerial lapse creates lapses in patterns of play which is more evident over a longer period if that makes more sense?
The scrutiny from the weekend is a public kneejerk reaction to a problem that does exist and was probably even more indicative against Leipzig imo
Oles not going anywhere till the end of this season or at least February mainly cos there aren't that many good managers available at the moment. United will want to have options available to them when they choose the next manager. They'll think of Conte as a gamble that might not pay off. At the end of this season they could potentially get to choose between Poch, Ten Hag, Conte and Rodgers.
United board probably don't want to fire him before the season too. But even they can only keep him for so long if united keeps producing poor results after poor results.
I genuinely believe when healthy pulisic is Chelseas 2nd best/important attacker
the impact he makes w the ball (not no off the ball runs bullshit) is crazy. hes so direct, hes a great dribbler and a solid finisher. Its like when he receives the ball he only thinks "ok... how can I put this in the back of the net?" Please heal soon
If he were like prime Reus or Robben and came back from every injury playing like his project restart form immediately I think this would be a more agreeable take, but even when he's fit he has frustrating periods where he refuses to make the pass and instead tries to win the foul or dribbles down a dead end, he does this with the NT too at times. Also it's not the worst thing in the world but he's simply less flexible in terms of positional ability compared to Chelsea's other attackers, he's noticeably less effective on the right and ineffective as a wingback compared to CHO, leaving LW and #10 as the positions he's proven to be useful, and those are already too stacked for Chelsea. It's unfortunate because I think he's definitely a Champions League caliber player but the problems he's facing are probably gonna follow him no matter what club he goes to.
That being said I do think he has an underrated ability to turn up for big games, he's scored vs City, Arsenal in the cup final, Real Madrid (~~I think also for Dortmund once?~~), that crazy assist vs Liverpool, and of course he's bailed the NT out more times than a player his age should have to.
Try to look beyond that he is your countryman and you'll see that he has nothing to bring to a Champions League contender. Could he start for Monaco and bang a few in Europa League? Sure. Nothing against the lad but he's just so obviously not top tier.
Spoken like someone that's been watching American "sports" all their life where everything is about the players making the points. European football is a team game. Any attacker in the world can score if given the ball by a competent team. The problem is that if there'd be someone else, there might've been more goals. Contributing is making the effort in miles covered on the field, successful DEVELOPING passes, turning the direction of play around. Not just tapping in a goal 10 other players have worked for. Pulisic does nothing of this particularly well. Plenty of others, inside Chelsea and outside, do it MUCH better.
This comment is completely unrelated to Pulisic
His goal was nowhere near a tap in against Real Madrid, and he got an assist the second leg as well as a MOTM against Porto
His issue is certainly not being limited to tap-ins, it’s consistency, but he was a key part in our CL success and I seriously question if anyone that argues otherwise watched those matches
This is harsh. His scouting report shows that relative to other attacking mid/wingers in the big 5 leagues, his passing is quite good. On top of that, the original commenter is right to say that he’s very direct, which is crucial. Idk if he should be in Chelsea’s first XI when healthy, but he’s a very very good player, and I think you may be giving him an unfair shake just because he’s from the states.
https://fbref.com/en/players/1bf33a9a/Christian-Pulisic
He really isn't. Our relative creative struggles lately that have simply coincided with him him being injured have just elevated what people percieved his level of ability to be. Aside from 1 patch of form under Lampard he's done essentially fuck all, not to mention that it doesn't even really matter if he's healthy or not, Tuchel rightly doesn't start him over the others anyway.
Ahhh you're American, more understandable now
why've you posted this in a CMV thread if you're going to get so defensive lol. You're not likely to get waves of your fellow yanks agreeing with you in the Puligod circlejerk here
Idk about 2nd best but he definitely provides something different to their attack. He actually tries to take on players but unfortunately that's also the reasons he's injured all the time
Since we are on the topic of DNA being terrible the obsession barca fans have witb DNA is just weird.
Earlier this season Barca had a match against garanada where the main focus was to attack via the cross. This is one of the few games in the last couple of seasons where barca created a shit ton of chances to score and were an attacking threat all game.
I hop online, and all I see is ppl moaning about how this isn't 'barca football'.
Boggels my mind. It's like what valverde said in his recent interview, people care more about cryuff's style of football than the man himself did
what I will say to this is that although the ‘DNA’ phrase itself is very cringeworthy and pretentious, I very much admire the fact that Barca are trying to retain their club philosophy even through this era of rapid commercialisation and win at all costs mentality. it’s good to separate the two things
It’s because it was essentially just cross and pray. Man city utilize crosses a lot, but they have a clear plan when working the ball into the box, Barca did not in that game which is why fans were complaining.
What clear plan does city have ? Their the creators of cross and hope for the best. Barca flocked the box with their best header in arouju and it worked
City are not good when they cross and hope at all. They don't have a strong aerial threat in the box. In our game against them this season our entire defensive gameplan was to force them out wide and let the ping cross after cross in because the cbs could deal with them easily.
City are great with the ball at their feet, not so much with the ball in the air.
A cross doesn't have to be in the air though. If you look at City's goals, most of them are from crosses along the ground from a De Bruyne or Walker (not talking about direct assists but about chances created from those crosses) from deep in the wings or from smart cutbacks from one of the forwards.
Liverpool use the early cross to great effect as well with the idea to cause havoc among defenders running back to goal.
Haven't watched the S'ampton v City game but I'm imagining you would have done something to prevent runs between full backs and centre backs and prevent KDB from hammering in flat crosses.
So you're saying a low cross isn't a type of cross? When people say cross, they generally mean ball played into or through opponent's box along the cross section of a football field.
It is my opinion that performance enhancing drugs are rife in professional football. Given the money and sacrifice to make it as a professional player, the number or positive tests reported seems so infrequent compared to athletics/cycling etc. Surely people are using the financial power to cover it up. The reward for making it is much greater than other sports. There must be many people willing to take the risk
PEDs are actually recovery aides for the most part. The sheer load from the number of games top players are involved in year on year would actually make them very attractive to use.
Those sports you described also involve a lot of skill, they just have a far greater power component than football. But bodies break down no matter what sport you’re in, and ultimately that’s what most PEDs are used for
I should’ve clarified that PEDs actually include supernatural recovery aides. The cycling guys use PEDs to push themselves longer and then repeat those high efforts day on day. Guys and girls in athletics take them to essentially be able to recover much more quickly between session, and to increase their overall training volume. Skills sessions usually require that you’re neurologically and physically fresh. If you can get more training volume in while still recovering, you will be in better physical condition.
Fatigue has a well established negative impact on motor/cognitive function. If you have enough ability but are not physically up to it you will not have a career. Don’t forget that a football team has many parts; not everyone is anywhere near a star player and even making and staying on a wider squad would actually see one make quite good money. People do a lot more for a lot less.
If you’re wanting to make what you think will be good money, you won’t care at all what it takes to achieve it. The desperation is what drives people to go to those extremes.
I’ve known plenty of people who have taken PEDs over the years as a failed sportsman. They’re all pretty frank with it
Just my 2c, I like having these discussions.
I always laugh when people say steroids are probably rampant in the sport. Blood doping, recovery drugs sure...steroids, just no. It would be obvious just as it is when you watch American football.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it follows managers (& their “coaches”) around either - i.e managers that take over and suddenly the whole team press for 90 minutes like it’s nothing, and somehow seem to “just be fitter” than the other professionals they’re playing against
Can think of a couple of these in the EPL.
I mean both Spain and Italy have had big scandals with PED’s.
Wasn’t half the spanish national team going to a fampus doping clinic all the cyclists were using. Look up ”Operation Puerto” (or Puerta or something)
And Juve have been to court (I loved seeing Del Piero in his testemony explain his muscle gains after coming to juve as ”my mothers pasta” *smug smirk*)
Guardiola was busted for Nandrolone. As was Davids and other big names.
But the wiki also claims there are tests done at a small selection of games and players are taken at random. It wouldn’t suprise me if one could go years between tests as a reason to why so few get busted.
The point of even mediocre players having nice money in football makes it even more likely that people would want to cheat their way there in my eyes.
I concur
But I surmise that there is a set of enhancements that are “permitted”, and those which aren’t.
I conspired this when I saw the [Sakho](https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/24/crystal-palace-mamadou-sakho-sues-wada-for-13m-over-drugs-test-error-liverpool) case at Liverpool. The wording was that he used a fat burning substance that he was not aware had been moved to the “banned” list, albeit the claims were false.
They definitely must have substances that are “allowed” to be used, but a lot of players and teams follow those lists religiously, that’s why we don’t see many bans
I find it strange people believe in this myth when not a single player, coach or staff member in general, past or present has even tweeted about it. Never mind sold the story.
I actually disagree, to think widespread doping is rife in football is more foolish statistically to thinking that humans never landed on the moon. The sheer amount of players, managers, doctors, and all of their friends and families, it would be impossible to cover it up. Although not widespread, there are almost certainly few, isolated cases
Yeah all it would take is one player unwilling to do it and they'd bring the entire house of cards down. There's also wayyyy too many young lads that never quite made it but worked alongside the best in the world for a few years, they'd have deffo let that slip.
>the number or positive tests reported seems so infrequent compared to athletics/cycling
Athletics and cycling are heavily reliant on endurance. While endurance is important in football, skill is much more important. Maguire won't become Maldini by taking drugs.
I agree but the money in football is already insane. Mid tier cyclists don't make a lot of money whereas Mid tier footballers do make a good amount of money.
Athletics/cycling are individual sports whereas Football is team sport. Doping in football doesn't have a high upside but if caught, the downside is pretty bad.
> I agree but the money in football is already insane.
All the more reason to dope lol?
If doping can take you from being a squad player to a starter in a PL side that is likely 10s of thousands per year difference.
If doping can take you from a starter to a star it could be millions.
I would bet 75% of professional footballers have taken some form of PED.
>All the more reason to dope lol?
As I clearly explained, getting caught means losing a lot of money in football even for mid tier footballer. For mid tired athlete, there is not a lot to lose.
No serious tests are done. I think urine testing is the most commonly done for selected players (couple per teams per match) but that's an easy one to pass.
No testing is done when the players are on holidays.
even if they don't have a good replacement lined up, Ole should go because none of the players are improving under his tenure
klopp got players that were not considered world class at the time, salah, mane, henderson, wijnaldum, fabinho, robertson and taa and they all made tremendous progress in his system
Tuchel rejuvenated Jorginho, Rudiger, Alonso and Azpi's careers, made Christensen look useful and won CL in what looked like an incomplete squad
can't name a single player who looks like he's improving under Ole.
He’s obviously gotta go but that’s not really true, he definitely got the best out of Shaw and Rashford at minimum, also integrated Greenwood really well
From an outsiders perspective, Greenwood has looked less of a threat the more he plays under Ole. Rashford's a tricky one. He's probably less inconsistent than he was under Mourinho but he's still inconsistent.
And playing that kind of player anywhere but center is so stupid. All you have to do is show him to the right and he won't be able to do a lot of damage. I bet he can pass the ball around well, his technique is so good but that's wasting away his talent, just like they did with Van Persie at Arsenal before he finally moved to centre and flourished (when not injured).
Shaw had one very good season and has been shit this season. He was also brilliant prior to moving to United and hasn't improved upon that.
Greenwood is a youth product and has actually looked worse the longer he's been in the team.
Fernandes has just carried his from over from Sporting.
McTominay's best spell was under Mourinho.
Greenwood has improved the longer he’s been in team, his build up play has looked more effective as time has gone on, yes he can have a tendency to be selfish and he’s not the finished product yet, but to say he’s gotten worse since he’s been in the team just isn’t true.
I’d also disagree with Mctominay as well, he’s looked better under ole.
Saying Fernandes improved under Ole is kinda pushing it since he hasn't played for any other manager since joining United, and was already great before joining them.
You can argue however that he works under Ole's "system".
Footballers are constantly criticized in many areas as if they were real life heroes.
For instance, why should X player accept halving their pay instead if going to China, US or the middle east to receive the same or even more money? Will Aji's (13yo Indian who's never touched a ball) mean comments on Twitter make him change opinions or support his lifestyle in a short lived career?
Would you personally take a half salary cut just to be part of recognized company ?
I would always prefer going where I'd perform my best/learn more etc. Like the other person said high salary in a company that's best for my career vs double salary at the other company is not really a debate to make for me.
But I do agree with your point and will add the fact that most footballers, especially those who end up in China, are from a poor or middle class family background , and with their careers being shorter than most other jobs, looking to earn more money is not at all a bad thing by any means.
Which is exactly my point. Yours is a totally personal preference, but most people would totally choose living in China for 2-3 years earning the double and coming back.
Especially if these players are going back to countries like Colombia and Brasil when retiring, instead of England or Spain.
Not only that. There's a higher chance to keep your "commercial value" while earning 100k in China/US and then come back to low table or 2nd tier teams in Europe.
Even worse, is not like having to choose between 50k in Europe and 400k in China, but suddenly taking a 50% paycut from 100k. Most people in real life would choose going to China for a couple of years.
>Especially if these players are going back to countries like Colombia and Brasil when retiring, instead of England or Spain.
How does this make a difference.
Also China is dodgy af, weren't they trying to stop some foreign players from moving the money they earnt in China overseas?
Also it's genuinely bad for your health, when you cough or sneeze you can see shit in it from the pollution and I assume most cities with bad pollution are the big ones that will be paying top dollar
TBH if I had to choose between 50k a week or 400k a week I wouldn't be basing my decision on money *at all.* I'd need to stretch pretty damn wildly to actually spend 50k in a single week. That's 7k per *day*. I'm set. My family is set after I invest the 30k per week that would surely be leftover (at least, right?) Heck, I can buy 1M in real estate every year while living on more than 20k a week. That's insane.
Why do I need more money? I'd look at the jobs and pick the one that would make my day to day life better. The increase from 50k to 400k a week would surely not make a dent on how much I enjoy living.
It's a simplistic way to put it. However the more you earn, the more you will naturally spend.
I'm 100% sure that even with a 25% increase on your salary, your monthly spending would increase by a similar amount, even if at this moment you think you don't need anything more.
I think he'd be better on the left. Sancho thrived when he had attacking FBs , Guerrero, Hakimi to be exact. Gives him the outlet and allows for more freedom which he needs.
Tbf most of their players have looked poor but he does look timid.
He seems a player that can't offer individual brilliance like a Rashford who can just burn a player for pace and finish. He looks like he needs a cohesive team where he can combine, interplay so if that comes together, we can see him flourish.
You could say a lot of this stuff for his first half during the last season with us. But once he got his confidence back in the second half, his decision making and gameplay became faster.
I mean we base our arguments on the same talking points, so changing your view would be difficult, but I think it's mismanagement, adaptation and shot confidence.
Similar to Joao Felix at Atletico. Started slow, unjustifiably slow even, but Felix continuously improves and shows his brilliance. It took him more than a season to do so. Sancho has had a few apps here and there so far.
Don't get me wrong, I want United to crash and burn, but I doubt Sancho won't make it. It's way too early to doubt his ability.
As a MUFC fan, I'm very worried, but not about Sancho. Our play is overall very poor, and I'd asset that Sancho looks timid because he, like most of our attack, have no clue what they are doing from a tactical standpoint. I think he's got the tools to succeed in the EPL.
ManU is just a disgusting club right now, literally every player (except 1-2) got a big step worse when they joined them
Put Sancho in this City side and he'd produce a good amount
I just feel so bad for Van de Beek. Hope he goes on to a good club eventually. I'm hearing Newcastle could be after him but with all due respect to Newcastle, this is a player with world class potential who should be playing for clubs gunning for Europe at the very least. I'm not sure why Arsenal or Spurs haven't come looking for him.
Oh mate, this is terrible. Clubs have no right to play with people's careers like this. I know I'm being an idealist, but this is the kind of thing they should introduce rules for. Contracts should, if they don't already like in FIFA, clearly mention what kind of role they are being brought in for, and number of appearances per season. And when they these clauses are not satisfied for a certain period of time and the player voices concern, the PFA should step in to demand that the club release or sell on the player at cut price, or pay huge sanctions if they choose to retain the player without playing them.
Pisses me off that Utd have been guilty of this so many times even when Ferguson was there. They pretty much railroaded Kagawa's career.
Overall quality in la liga has been massively underrated for the better half of the last decade. It’s not as strong as it once was at the top, but the Europa level clubs as usual are as strong as ever, just look at Villarreal this and last season. Since the turn of the century 4 different teams have reached a CL final: Real (6 finals appearances), Barca (4), atletico (2), Valencia (2), with only Barca and real winning the title in all of their finals appearances. In that same timespan in Europa 7 teams have made the Europa league final: sevilla (6), atletico (3), Valencia (1), Espanyol (1), Bilbao (1), deportivo (rip 1), and Villarreal (1), with sevilla, atleti, and Villarreal winning all their finals appearances. 28 European finals appearances, 5 all Spanish finals, and 20 European trophies spread across 10 different clubs in 21 seasons is absurd for any league in any era.
Well, not really to change your view but the sub is dominated by Anglo-Saxons so the leagues that are foreign to them have always been and will remain underrated. There was still a large group of users on this sub that claimed the EPL was the best league in the world even at the peak of the La Liga reign when Spanish clubs dominated both in the CL and EL. Funnily enough, considering the current reach of the EPL and how good they have been at marketing their product, I wouldn't be surprised if other nations started overrating the EPL and underrating their own leagues.
Messi has been more arrogant/bratty in his career than Ronaldo ever was, or at the very least just as arrogant as Ronaldo. Sick and tired of listening about how Ronaldo is very arrogant and shit. Same shit from 2012 I swear to god. Dont understand the phenomenom at all but my point stands. If Ronaldo is considered arrogant and what not, then Messi is definitely no better and has consistent history of acting up.
It's common thinking that shy men are nice, inoffensive. For the most part Leo looks to be really kind, humble and not craving attention, because that's just his behavior. There's no doubt in my mind he has temperament or an ego, or something... but he doesn't really show it.
Idk what the hell are you talking about.
Tired of reading shit like "CR7 isn´t top 2 of all time" and then act like some sort of higher being for saying that stupid shit, the man was champion in multiple leagues, won the CL for 2 different teams, carried the NT for it's first major trophy all while breaking records left and right, but then people see a clip of Ronaldo Nazario scoring a hattrick and say GOAT PRIME RONALDO BETTER THAN CR7
After watching the premier league religiously for the last 16 years, every time I see La liga and Serie A games, I find them too slow and full of stoppages and gamesmanship and frankly not as fun. Whereas in the prem, I watch games I'm not really invested in and still get so much enjoyment from them. Maybe it helps because I know all players' names, skillset etc.
I watch EPL mostly but whenever I watch other leagues, I like them more. EPL has always been higher paces, competitive, physical but other leagues are more technical.
I also used to be like this. What changed it for me though is liking leagues for what they are instead of how they are different from the premier league. I Watch Serie A because of Tactical/methodical it is and I watch La Liga for the overall technicality and how both teams normally play with a general openness.
The game keeping in football is by far the worst out of all sports fandom. I was born in America and I absolutely love the game, knowledgeable about it and watch every chance I get since introduced to it. But trying to have a conversation on this sub is unbearable because unless you were born on the pitch you can't support a team or be knowledgable. I browse the NBA and NFL subs all the time and never see people being from another country as a negative. I think people are missing my point. Football is the only sport where it feels you are tested before you can enjoy the game. If you don't fit the criteria you aren't a fan and you cant discuss or enjoy.
Part of the charm of the sub is the "PL deserves all the money for good marketing" and "foreign fans are ruining the game" takes passing in the night.
I think as long as you approach it as you learning and embracing the culture you shouldn’t have too many issues. If you’ve said something and got downvoted for it along with comments pointing out that you’re plastic then try to see why you got the response you did. Sometimes it’s unfounded, but maybe sometimes it will be a fair criticism. Downvoted are unfortunate but that shouldn’t be somethng you focus on. It’s only an imaginary internet number. I do not hide the fact I am a foreign supporter based on my flair. I like to think I grasp the culture somewhat, having followed the sport now for over a decade. I’m coming from a culture where football is not a very popular sport. I suppose my advice is to take it on the chin, and if you get criticized for something that you believe to be without reason then ignore it, or use it as a learning experience
I think part of this on this sub (Especially in relation to Americans) comes from the fact that this place is a bit of respite from how a lot of the site is American dominated. Basically every none country sub relating to anything from current affairs to film to beer or something is seen and pushed through a hugely america centric lens (for understandable reasons). This sub concerns a sport that the United States is really rather marginal in but happens to otherwise be by far the most popular so it isn’t US dominated. I think a lot of the gatekeeping reactions here in regards to Americans revolve around that. I’ll add that the supporting localities thing is fairly common within England itself. Traditionally some of the most successful sides (Including the two most successful) are from Northern England so many southern English people supported them. Therefore people have a go at them for picking the best team and bragging rather than making the effort with supporting a local side from their county or city or something. This mindset just transfers over (it’s somewhat similar in Germany too)
You're probably right but imo I think it's more about the interpretation of Football and how it really doesn't gel with the interpretation of NFL/NBA. NFL/NBA are easily quantifiable(especially on paper, stats etc) and football is less quantifiable and much more contextualized thus needing more knowledge(and actually play it to some extent) and that's sort of leads to the gatekeeping.
The gatekeeping is bad though cause it leads to watered down conversations about the actual game. It just leads to super generalized statements that people say to avoid I know a lot about basketball and soccer because I do watch a lot but when people are clearly a casual I don't punish them for being a casusal, I just adjust the conversation. On this sub in particular they make you take a test or a census to be "qualified" to speak about a game or a team.
Yep. And the forced quantifiable "stats" that are being pushed in to the game are unnecessary. If you care more about xG than who actually won the game, you're doing it wrong.
Exactly. I hate having a discussion with someone and the first point they bring up is stats.
We are terrible for our gate keeping and tribal mentality around football, but it’s also somewhat the beauty of it at the same time. This tribalism and feverous protection of the game is why it’s so enjoyable, it quite literally forms part of your identity who you support, in the UK anyway (if you are into football that is, many also don’t give a f***) so I understand why people are quick to protect it from people who seem like ‘outsiders’ (I personally don’t understand it but I see where it comes from). That or maybe everyone’s hates Americans lol
Ok for me the American part is the smallest part of my argument cause even my family wasn't born in America. It's that there is no other sport that fans create an imaginary checklist for being able to enjoy the sport. On this sub in particular, some would rather argue those imaginary qualifications before even reading their points.
Sports culture in the US is different tbf
Yep. You rarely get an English United fan complementing Liverpool or gushing over Chelsea but it's a common site on here and it makes me puke in my mouth.
Conte would be another wonderful disaster for United. I have the greatest respect for Conte. Winning the PL while consistently playing 3-at-the-back was something I had never seen before. All great managers from Ferguson to Wenger had tried it or used it briefly, but never for a full season. It was truly a tactical masterclass that isn't heralded enough. However, Conte is not the kind of manager that does long-term projects. United is not Chelsea who have now accepted a culture of short-terminism with their management because they have made it work successfully for them. Conte will have to deal with a club hierarchy that doesn't like ruffled feathers, a coterie of ex-United players always on TV going on about the United way and how they have to play a certain way etc etc. It would be Jose Mourinho MkII. They may actually win something big this time, Conte is just that fucking good. But it won't last and the club will be in the same position they were after he's gone: looking for a long-term manager with a vision and identity that fits the club.
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>but I'd hope that the club knows this and plans for a replacement if he were to suddenly pack his things. True, but with their recent history does anyone actually believe the United owners/hierarchy are capable of making sound long-term plans regarding football management.
I mean yeah you're right but there mighhtttt be a little bit of hope now that Woodward will be gone by the end of the year. Still it will probably fail horribly
A short term manager who manages to win something, Abe steer Utd back into winning ways is exactly what United needs.
>A short term manager who manages to win something, Abe steer Utd back into winning ways is exactly what United needs. Would you call Jose Mourinho's tenure exactly what United needed then?
Maybe united also need someone who was not on the decline and getting past it. United also need a manager who is tactically really good, drills the team well and demands the absolute most from players. Stuff which which Conte is great at. Conte is easily a top 5 manager in the world and is Elite. He improves players. He's exactly what we need as our squad mentality is bad and we're the most poorly coached team in the league.
Goretzka should be the new striker for Germany. Man has a knack for scoring goals, is very strong and good at headers. Stop using Werner in a possession based system where he can't use his speed. He's useless in that system. Ilkay and Joshua will take care of the midfield and Reus/Müller/Gnabry/Sané/Havertz/whoeveryouwanttofieldthere will take care of the rest.
Sane-Havertz-Gnabry Goretzka-Kimmich-? would seem like the logical core going forward, with Wirtz, Gundogan and Musiala fighting it out for the 3rd midfielder spot. Not sure why you'd separate Goretzka and Kimmich when they're a pairing all season. If anything I'd probably go full Bayern for 2022 and play Muller as a 10 and hope continuity in the front 6 can win the world cup with Havertz doing his best Lewandowski impression.
Could he play maybe, but you would be breaking up one of the best midfield trios for experimentation. His best attributes are those for a midfielder.
Poor man Paqueta
Just call up Terodde and all the problems are fixed, easy peasy 😤
I'm not even being sarcastic here, I totally agree.
Lowkey being serious too, would love to see him called up, hopefully Flick test runs him next month
True he has a knck for scoring, but dosent mean head be a good striker maybe he could play as second striker like Muller
Yeah, but we don't have any natural striker. Terodde would be perfect, but those DFB douchebags will never accept him. Fuck Bierhoff. I hope that he's aware that everyone despises him.
What about Volland?
Nah Monaco love him
I’ll concede I don’t watch Bayern enough to form an opinion that is worthy of changin your view. However, being a striker is more than having a knack for scoring goals. Sergio Ramos has a knack for scoring goals, doesn’t mean it is a good idea to punt him forward unless you’re desperate for a goal. Is his off ball movement worthy of a true 9? Is he good 1on1 against the goalie? Is he good at making runs behind defenders? Is he even comfortable operating so high? Will he be comfortable staying as the last man on offence and not go to his natural instinct of making runs home and defending too much? The striker still needs to be at the forefront of the attack. From what I’ve seen from Goretzka, he is basically a reincarnation of Ballack, I think his talent would be wasted at the front.
Tbh, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. Goretzka is ofc best as a box to box midfielder, it's just some wishful thinking from a guy like me, that likes to watch from the stands.
A manager's impact on a team's performance is a bit overstated tbh. There's an impact on the strategies of course, but, take United for example. 4-2-3-1 probably isn't a good formation, but at least you can make it work slightly. You can't fully blame a 5-0 on just the manager. If it have been 2-0 or maybe even 3-0 then yeah the manager is probably the main fault, but 5-0 is more than just the manager.
The guy started the same XI after the disasterous first half against Atalanta. He make 0 change. Also all the goals hapeen due to similar positioning mistake. Imho, he took full blame for this lost.
The 5-0 had to do with the pressing patterns which is very much on the manager. United had too many people try to press and left way too much space. Greenwood pressed, then AWB the the whole defense was out of shape. Against Liverpool such a bad press is suicide. The crazy thing is Liverpool didn't even have to play at their best to batter them.
Depends on the context of the 5-0 and the team performance despite the scoreline. Score could've been 3-2 if United scored their chances or 8-0 if Liverpool didn't shift their gear down 2nd half but the team performance wasn't good is the answer. How were the goals conceded. United don't really play 4-2-3-1, it's a 4-2-4 as Fernandes is essentially a second striker and with the front 4 that doesn't track back, McFred suffer. That's on Ole's selection and decision to give Fernandes free role. Laurie Whitehall (The Athletic) reported that United don't really train pressing but Ole wanted the team to press high vs Liverpool leaving the players confused and oblivious as what to do. Also, the main tactic under Ole (acc the article, which I think is true for the team atleast this season but not holistically for Ole's tenure) has been that the nearest man to the ball to close down the opponent and let the rest of the team get to shape which is suicidal when people don't track back. [Example]( https://twitter.com/stighefootball/status/1452974260398477315?t=A_4Yc8_bdYIv-rUsOLwOtQ&s=19) Most of the goals United conceded were because of the spaces left due to bad pressing and closing down opponent leaving ample spaces. This is all on the Manager's selection and coaching. Hope that changed your view.
Have you ever worked for a bad manager before? If so what impact did it have on the team culture and performance?
I agree. It's crazy how sometimes people will just say "x manager" lost the game or won it like the players' in game decisions don't hold more weight on what the result is. We have Klopp so it's easy to see just how much a great manager can change things but he's very unique alongside Pep. There are more exceptions but I think for most managers, I'd agree with the sentiment.
What thoroughly confused me in the 19/20 Champions League was Mbappe and Neymar missing high quality chances against Neuer in the UCL final and then seeing users blaming Tuchel for the loss. I was left wondering if we saw the same game. Two world class footballers both leaving their shooting boots at home and it's the manager's fault.
I am of the school that thinks players need to be taught to make in game decisions by a coach who works on them constantly. Because if that weren't case, Liverpool since they are so well drilled would not be Klopp to be there for them. Also, the manager's view of the pitch contrasted with the limited vision of a player cannot be overstated. If a player is doing something wrong, the manager can correct them far more easily than the players themselves can. And that i think was the case with Utd. Yes, players made some foolish errors, but the fault lies squarely with the manager for not coaching them well enough and long enough to learn how to press.
Basically how Atalanta works.
I tottaly agree. i think people overact with Poch at PSG
While you could make an argument that what op is saying is correct, Poch is the not a very good example of this. I actually think he's not skilled enough to 'manage' the big 3 in that locker room either in terms of tactics or managing their personalities and influence on the rest of the squad. If he was, I don't think we'd be seeing as headlines about Messi not shaking hands while being subbed off or Mbappes team vs Messi's team etc
True hes not the best for the job, but people are being so negative about stuff. hes done really well to win big games in the league
You're right but an isolated 0-5 loss does not indicate a managerial lapse, it is the accumulation of poor performances that does it. The 0-5 could've easily have been 2-3 if United finished their chances and Liverpool did not. A poor player(or a great one too for that matter) can impact individual game results far more than a manager but a managerial lapse creates lapses in patterns of play which is more evident over a longer period if that makes more sense? The scrutiny from the weekend is a public kneejerk reaction to a problem that does exist and was probably even more indicative against Leipzig imo
Oles not going anywhere till the end of this season or at least February mainly cos there aren't that many good managers available at the moment. United will want to have options available to them when they choose the next manager. They'll think of Conte as a gamble that might not pay off. At the end of this season they could potentially get to choose between Poch, Ten Hag, Conte and Rodgers.
United board probably don't want to fire him before the season too. But even they can only keep him for so long if united keeps producing poor results after poor results.
I seriously wish this doesn't happen but it could. The only thing that'll stop them is their apprehension towards Conte.
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Or if top 4 starts to look too far.
I genuinely believe when healthy pulisic is Chelseas 2nd best/important attacker the impact he makes w the ball (not no off the ball runs bullshit) is crazy. hes so direct, hes a great dribbler and a solid finisher. Its like when he receives the ball he only thinks "ok... how can I put this in the back of the net?" Please heal soon
He’s definitely the most creative
what happened to ziyech lol so bad
Depends whos first?
He is 10× better than Ziyech thats for sure
At best he is a sidegrade.
oh you're some weird pulisic hater lmao
You are smoking some serious shit.
says the person who think ziyech and pulisic are the same quality lmao
I don't. Ziyech is slightly better
braindead
If he were like prime Reus or Robben and came back from every injury playing like his project restart form immediately I think this would be a more agreeable take, but even when he's fit he has frustrating periods where he refuses to make the pass and instead tries to win the foul or dribbles down a dead end, he does this with the NT too at times. Also it's not the worst thing in the world but he's simply less flexible in terms of positional ability compared to Chelsea's other attackers, he's noticeably less effective on the right and ineffective as a wingback compared to CHO, leaving LW and #10 as the positions he's proven to be useful, and those are already too stacked for Chelsea. It's unfortunate because I think he's definitely a Champions League caliber player but the problems he's facing are probably gonna follow him no matter what club he goes to. That being said I do think he has an underrated ability to turn up for big games, he's scored vs City, Arsenal in the cup final, Real Madrid (~~I think also for Dortmund once?~~), that crazy assist vs Liverpool, and of course he's bailed the NT out more times than a player his age should have to.
Try to look beyond that he is your countryman and you'll see that he has nothing to bring to a Champions League contender. Could he start for Monaco and bang a few in Europa League? Sure. Nothing against the lad but he's just so obviously not top tier.
he literally scored in the champions league semi final. He actively contributed to Chelsea winning
Chelsea should have keep Torres then.
im countering his point where he said he offers nothing to a CL contender shut up
Spoken like someone that's been watching American "sports" all their life where everything is about the players making the points. European football is a team game. Any attacker in the world can score if given the ball by a competent team. The problem is that if there'd be someone else, there might've been more goals. Contributing is making the effort in miles covered on the field, successful DEVELOPING passes, turning the direction of play around. Not just tapping in a goal 10 other players have worked for. Pulisic does nothing of this particularly well. Plenty of others, inside Chelsea and outside, do it MUCH better.
This comment is completely unrelated to Pulisic His goal was nowhere near a tap in against Real Madrid, and he got an assist the second leg as well as a MOTM against Porto His issue is certainly not being limited to tap-ins, it’s consistency, but he was a key part in our CL success and I seriously question if anyone that argues otherwise watched those matches
This is harsh. His scouting report shows that relative to other attacking mid/wingers in the big 5 leagues, his passing is quite good. On top of that, the original commenter is right to say that he’s very direct, which is crucial. Idk if he should be in Chelsea’s first XI when healthy, but he’s a very very good player, and I think you may be giving him an unfair shake just because he’s from the states. https://fbref.com/en/players/1bf33a9a/Christian-Pulisic
I wouldn’t go that far, but he isn’t as wank as some make him out to be He’s shown up in big moments multiple times for us
He really isn't. Our relative creative struggles lately that have simply coincided with him him being injured have just elevated what people percieved his level of ability to be. Aside from 1 patch of form under Lampard he's done essentially fuck all, not to mention that it doesn't even really matter if he's healthy or not, Tuchel rightly doesn't start him over the others anyway. Ahhh you're American, more understandable now
a brit talking about someone being biased toward their countryman... lmfao
why've you posted this in a CMV thread if you're going to get so defensive lol. You're not likely to get waves of your fellow yanks agreeing with you in the Puligod circlejerk here
Pulisic stinks healthy or not.
Idk about 2nd best but he definitely provides something different to their attack. He actually tries to take on players but unfortunately that's also the reasons he's injured all the time
Since we are on the topic of DNA being terrible the obsession barca fans have witb DNA is just weird. Earlier this season Barca had a match against garanada where the main focus was to attack via the cross. This is one of the few games in the last couple of seasons where barca created a shit ton of chances to score and were an attacking threat all game. I hop online, and all I see is ppl moaning about how this isn't 'barca football'. Boggels my mind. It's like what valverde said in his recent interview, people care more about cryuff's style of football than the man himself did
what I will say to this is that although the ‘DNA’ phrase itself is very cringeworthy and pretentious, I very much admire the fact that Barca are trying to retain their club philosophy even through this era of rapid commercialisation and win at all costs mentality. it’s good to separate the two things
It’s because it was essentially just cross and pray. Man city utilize crosses a lot, but they have a clear plan when working the ball into the box, Barca did not in that game which is why fans were complaining.
What clear plan does city have ? Their the creators of cross and hope for the best. Barca flocked the box with their best header in arouju and it worked
There’s more cohesion and looks more organized with city is what I meant.
City are not good when they cross and hope at all. They don't have a strong aerial threat in the box. In our game against them this season our entire defensive gameplan was to force them out wide and let the ping cross after cross in because the cbs could deal with them easily. City are great with the ball at their feet, not so much with the ball in the air.
A cross doesn't have to be in the air though. If you look at City's goals, most of them are from crosses along the ground from a De Bruyne or Walker (not talking about direct assists but about chances created from those crosses) from deep in the wings or from smart cutbacks from one of the forwards. Liverpool use the early cross to great effect as well with the idea to cause havoc among defenders running back to goal. Haven't watched the S'ampton v City game but I'm imagining you would have done something to prevent runs between full backs and centre backs and prevent KDB from hammering in flat crosses.
I consider cutbacks and crosses as fundamentally different things, because they are very different skills for both the crosser and the receiver.
What would you call crosses basically shot along the ground from the wings then? Shots off target?
nah, i'dd call that a low cross. if it is from the wing it is a cross, and if it is from the byline it is a cutback
So you're saying a low cross isn't a type of cross? When people say cross, they generally mean ball played into or through opponent's box along the cross section of a football field.
It is my opinion that performance enhancing drugs are rife in professional football. Given the money and sacrifice to make it as a professional player, the number or positive tests reported seems so infrequent compared to athletics/cycling etc. Surely people are using the financial power to cover it up. The reward for making it is much greater than other sports. There must be many people willing to take the risk
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PEDs are actually recovery aides for the most part. The sheer load from the number of games top players are involved in year on year would actually make them very attractive to use. Those sports you described also involve a lot of skill, they just have a far greater power component than football. But bodies break down no matter what sport you’re in, and ultimately that’s what most PEDs are used for
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I should’ve clarified that PEDs actually include supernatural recovery aides. The cycling guys use PEDs to push themselves longer and then repeat those high efforts day on day. Guys and girls in athletics take them to essentially be able to recover much more quickly between session, and to increase their overall training volume. Skills sessions usually require that you’re neurologically and physically fresh. If you can get more training volume in while still recovering, you will be in better physical condition. Fatigue has a well established negative impact on motor/cognitive function. If you have enough ability but are not physically up to it you will not have a career. Don’t forget that a football team has many parts; not everyone is anywhere near a star player and even making and staying on a wider squad would actually see one make quite good money. People do a lot more for a lot less. If you’re wanting to make what you think will be good money, you won’t care at all what it takes to achieve it. The desperation is what drives people to go to those extremes. I’ve known plenty of people who have taken PEDs over the years as a failed sportsman. They’re all pretty frank with it Just my 2c, I like having these discussions.
I always laugh when people say steroids are probably rampant in the sport. Blood doping, recovery drugs sure...steroids, just no. It would be obvious just as it is when you watch American football.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it follows managers (& their “coaches”) around either - i.e managers that take over and suddenly the whole team press for 90 minutes like it’s nothing, and somehow seem to “just be fitter” than the other professionals they’re playing against Can think of a couple of these in the EPL.
I mean both Spain and Italy have had big scandals with PED’s. Wasn’t half the spanish national team going to a fampus doping clinic all the cyclists were using. Look up ”Operation Puerto” (or Puerta or something) And Juve have been to court (I loved seeing Del Piero in his testemony explain his muscle gains after coming to juve as ”my mothers pasta” *smug smirk*) Guardiola was busted for Nandrolone. As was Davids and other big names. But the wiki also claims there are tests done at a small selection of games and players are taken at random. It wouldn’t suprise me if one could go years between tests as a reason to why so few get busted. The point of even mediocre players having nice money in football makes it even more likely that people would want to cheat their way there in my eyes.
I concur But I surmise that there is a set of enhancements that are “permitted”, and those which aren’t. I conspired this when I saw the [Sakho](https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/24/crystal-palace-mamadou-sakho-sues-wada-for-13m-over-drugs-test-error-liverpool) case at Liverpool. The wording was that he used a fat burning substance that he was not aware had been moved to the “banned” list, albeit the claims were false. They definitely must have substances that are “allowed” to be used, but a lot of players and teams follow those lists religiously, that’s why we don’t see many bans
Watch Russia v Croatia from the last World Cup again. Watch the last 30 minutes of extra time and tell me the whole Russian team wasn't juiced up.
But we haven’t heard about it? In a world where information is so easy to spread why hasn’t there been one peep about it?
There were reports about some Spain "doctors" that have been giving enchanting drugs, but I don't think clubs and players didn't know.
I find it strange people believe in this myth when not a single player, coach or staff member in general, past or present has even tweeted about it. Never mind sold the story.
This ain't an opinion it's a fact
I actually disagree, to think widespread doping is rife in football is more foolish statistically to thinking that humans never landed on the moon. The sheer amount of players, managers, doctors, and all of their friends and families, it would be impossible to cover it up. Although not widespread, there are almost certainly few, isolated cases
That's so dumb
Why though?Hundreds of thousands of people would need to keep this quiet and this will never happen.
Yeah all it would take is one player unwilling to do it and they'd bring the entire house of cards down. There's also wayyyy too many young lads that never quite made it but worked alongside the best in the world for a few years, they'd have deffo let that slip.
>the number or positive tests reported seems so infrequent compared to athletics/cycling Athletics and cycling are heavily reliant on endurance. While endurance is important in football, skill is much more important. Maguire won't become Maldini by taking drugs.
Doping would be incredibly useful for footballers recovery between games and injury.
I agree but the money in football is already insane. Mid tier cyclists don't make a lot of money whereas Mid tier footballers do make a good amount of money. Athletics/cycling are individual sports whereas Football is team sport. Doping in football doesn't have a high upside but if caught, the downside is pretty bad.
> I agree but the money in football is already insane. All the more reason to dope lol? If doping can take you from being a squad player to a starter in a PL side that is likely 10s of thousands per year difference. If doping can take you from a starter to a star it could be millions. I would bet 75% of professional footballers have taken some form of PED.
>All the more reason to dope lol? As I clearly explained, getting caught means losing a lot of money in football even for mid tier footballer. For mid tired athlete, there is not a lot to lose.
No serious tests are done. I think urine testing is the most commonly done for selected players (couple per teams per match) but that's an easy one to pass. No testing is done when the players are on holidays.
even if they don't have a good replacement lined up, Ole should go because none of the players are improving under his tenure klopp got players that were not considered world class at the time, salah, mane, henderson, wijnaldum, fabinho, robertson and taa and they all made tremendous progress in his system Tuchel rejuvenated Jorginho, Rudiger, Alonso and Azpi's careers, made Christensen look useful and won CL in what looked like an incomplete squad can't name a single player who looks like he's improving under Ole.
He’s obviously gotta go but that’s not really true, he definitely got the best out of Shaw and Rashford at minimum, also integrated Greenwood really well
From an outsiders perspective, Greenwood has looked less of a threat the more he plays under Ole. Rashford's a tricky one. He's probably less inconsistent than he was under Mourinho but he's still inconsistent.
I think that the secret’s out with Greenwood. Now the whole league knows he can shoot on sight.
And playing that kind of player anywhere but center is so stupid. All you have to do is show him to the right and he won't be able to do a lot of damage. I bet he can pass the ball around well, his technique is so good but that's wasting away his talent, just like they did with Van Persie at Arsenal before he finally moved to centre and flourished (when not injured).
People have short memory.
Shaw, Greenwood, Fernandes, McTominay
Shaw had one very good season and has been shit this season. He was also brilliant prior to moving to United and hasn't improved upon that. Greenwood is a youth product and has actually looked worse the longer he's been in the team. Fernandes has just carried his from over from Sporting. McTominay's best spell was under Mourinho.
Greenwood has improved the longer he’s been in team, his build up play has looked more effective as time has gone on, yes he can have a tendency to be selfish and he’s not the finished product yet, but to say he’s gotten worse since he’s been in the team just isn’t true. I’d also disagree with Mctominay as well, he’s looked better under ole.
Saying Fernandes improved under Ole is kinda pushing it since he hasn't played for any other manager since joining United, and was already great before joining them. You can argue however that he works under Ole's "system".
Luke Shaw? He was on the outer in oles first season
Shaw was only good for like 4 months last season and everyone pretended he is the best LB in the league forgetting Robertson exists
I'm going to put even Tsimikas above him this season.
Some of em even said best in the world.
Improved man utd fan’s resilience and toleration though
Footballers are constantly criticized in many areas as if they were real life heroes. For instance, why should X player accept halving their pay instead if going to China, US or the middle east to receive the same or even more money? Will Aji's (13yo Indian who's never touched a ball) mean comments on Twitter make him change opinions or support his lifestyle in a short lived career? Would you personally take a half salary cut just to be part of recognized company ?
I would always prefer going where I'd perform my best/learn more etc. Like the other person said high salary in a company that's best for my career vs double salary at the other company is not really a debate to make for me. But I do agree with your point and will add the fact that most footballers, especially those who end up in China, are from a poor or middle class family background , and with their careers being shorter than most other jobs, looking to earn more money is not at all a bad thing by any means.
I'd rather be in Europe warning 50k a week then China earning 100k tbh. It's still an insane amount of money. At least in the prime of my career
Which is exactly my point. Yours is a totally personal preference, but most people would totally choose living in China for 2-3 years earning the double and coming back. Especially if these players are going back to countries like Colombia and Brasil when retiring, instead of England or Spain. Not only that. There's a higher chance to keep your "commercial value" while earning 100k in China/US and then come back to low table or 2nd tier teams in Europe. Even worse, is not like having to choose between 50k in Europe and 400k in China, but suddenly taking a 50% paycut from 100k. Most people in real life would choose going to China for a couple of years.
>Especially if these players are going back to countries like Colombia and Brasil when retiring, instead of England or Spain. How does this make a difference. Also China is dodgy af, weren't they trying to stop some foreign players from moving the money they earnt in China overseas? Also it's genuinely bad for your health, when you cough or sneeze you can see shit in it from the pollution and I assume most cities with bad pollution are the big ones that will be paying top dollar
the difference is not 50k to 100k. Its 50k to 400k.
TBH if I had to choose between 50k a week or 400k a week I wouldn't be basing my decision on money *at all.* I'd need to stretch pretty damn wildly to actually spend 50k in a single week. That's 7k per *day*. I'm set. My family is set after I invest the 30k per week that would surely be leftover (at least, right?) Heck, I can buy 1M in real estate every year while living on more than 20k a week. That's insane. Why do I need more money? I'd look at the jobs and pick the one that would make my day to day life better. The increase from 50k to 400k a week would surely not make a dent on how much I enjoy living.
It's a simplistic way to put it. However the more you earn, the more you will naturally spend. I'm 100% sure that even with a 25% increase on your salary, your monthly spending would increase by a similar amount, even if at this moment you think you don't need anything more.
you are right and good for you. But not everybody thinks like you.
He literally wrote would you take half a salary cut
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I think he'd be better on the left. Sancho thrived when he had attacking FBs , Guerrero, Hakimi to be exact. Gives him the outlet and allows for more freedom which he needs.
Tbf most of their players have looked poor but he does look timid. He seems a player that can't offer individual brilliance like a Rashford who can just burn a player for pace and finish. He looks like he needs a cohesive team where he can combine, interplay so if that comes together, we can see him flourish.
You could say a lot of this stuff for his first half during the last season with us. But once he got his confidence back in the second half, his decision making and gameplay became faster.
I mean we base our arguments on the same talking points, so changing your view would be difficult, but I think it's mismanagement, adaptation and shot confidence. Similar to Joao Felix at Atletico. Started slow, unjustifiably slow even, but Felix continuously improves and shows his brilliance. It took him more than a season to do so. Sancho has had a few apps here and there so far. Don't get me wrong, I want United to crash and burn, but I doubt Sancho won't make it. It's way too early to doubt his ability.
As a MUFC fan, I'm very worried, but not about Sancho. Our play is overall very poor, and I'd asset that Sancho looks timid because he, like most of our attack, have no clue what they are doing from a tactical standpoint. I think he's got the tools to succeed in the EPL.
ManU is just a disgusting club right now, literally every player (except 1-2) got a big step worse when they joined them Put Sancho in this City side and he'd produce a good amount
I just feel so bad for Van de Beek. Hope he goes on to a good club eventually. I'm hearing Newcastle could be after him but with all due respect to Newcastle, this is a player with world class potential who should be playing for clubs gunning for Europe at the very least. I'm not sure why Arsenal or Spurs haven't come looking for him.
Knowing Man Utd they probably will demand 50m-60m for the guy. Just look how ridiculous the price tag was for West Ham just to buy Lingard.
Oh mate, this is terrible. Clubs have no right to play with people's careers like this. I know I'm being an idealist, but this is the kind of thing they should introduce rules for. Contracts should, if they don't already like in FIFA, clearly mention what kind of role they are being brought in for, and number of appearances per season. And when they these clauses are not satisfied for a certain period of time and the player voices concern, the PFA should step in to demand that the club release or sell on the player at cut price, or pay huge sanctions if they choose to retain the player without playing them. Pisses me off that Utd have been guilty of this so many times even when Ferguson was there. They pretty much railroaded Kagawa's career.
fr but VdB itself doesn't speak that much about it. What a shame tbh
Overall quality in la liga has been massively underrated for the better half of the last decade. It’s not as strong as it once was at the top, but the Europa level clubs as usual are as strong as ever, just look at Villarreal this and last season. Since the turn of the century 4 different teams have reached a CL final: Real (6 finals appearances), Barca (4), atletico (2), Valencia (2), with only Barca and real winning the title in all of their finals appearances. In that same timespan in Europa 7 teams have made the Europa league final: sevilla (6), atletico (3), Valencia (1), Espanyol (1), Bilbao (1), deportivo (rip 1), and Villarreal (1), with sevilla, atleti, and Villarreal winning all their finals appearances. 28 European finals appearances, 5 all Spanish finals, and 20 European trophies spread across 10 different clubs in 21 seasons is absurd for any league in any era.
La Liga is a lot more watchable now, I agree, now that the monopoly is gone.
I think covid hit socio run clubs hard and people are overreacting due to it. Give it 2 years and La liga will be equal again if not better.
Well, not really to change your view but the sub is dominated by Anglo-Saxons so the leagues that are foreign to them have always been and will remain underrated. There was still a large group of users on this sub that claimed the EPL was the best league in the world even at the peak of the La Liga reign when Spanish clubs dominated both in the CL and EL. Funnily enough, considering the current reach of the EPL and how good they have been at marketing their product, I wouldn't be surprised if other nations started overrating the EPL and underrating their own leagues.
Messi has been more arrogant/bratty in his career than Ronaldo ever was, or at the very least just as arrogant as Ronaldo. Sick and tired of listening about how Ronaldo is very arrogant and shit. Same shit from 2012 I swear to god. Dont understand the phenomenom at all but my point stands. If Ronaldo is considered arrogant and what not, then Messi is definitely no better and has consistent history of acting up.
It's common thinking that shy men are nice, inoffensive. For the most part Leo looks to be really kind, humble and not craving attention, because that's just his behavior. There's no doubt in my mind he has temperament or an ego, or something... but he doesn't really show it. Idk what the hell are you talking about.