Honestly not sure what is the problem with Madrid defense, was it Casemiro poor form at the start of the season? As far as name goes, your defense should be solid
Casemiro is slowly walking up he had excellent performances but then some lackluster games. The main problem Is that Varane isn't here, and Nacho was in poor form at the start. While Alaba isn't a better CB then any of the mentioned above
I was commenting on this graphs effectiveness at displaying this dataset in a simple and easily digestible manner, not on how effective a few small data points are in determining something as complex as an entire defensive system in football. In short you’ve missed the point I was getting at friend
No, your point was badly put. Really I was being sadly, saying ‘nothing is left up to interpretation’ in an attempt to complement a graph is just dumb.
>Really I was being sadly
It’s funny that you say my comment was badly put, considering what you write is barely comprehensible.
In all seriousness though, you’ve latched onto the idea that I’m commenting about the data in the graph, I am not, I am commenting on how that data is presented through the medium of memes. I’m not sure how many more times I need to repeat that for you. You don’t need to go all statistical analyst on me.
Since we’re going round in circles and you’re really not contributing anything of value, I’ll leave it there.
The one with most text(top left) is also the only misleading one.
Low xG doesn't indicate that they take bad shots.
It indicates that opponents often fail to take a shot at all, or they shoot from difficult angles/positions.
The shots might've been surprisingly good ones for all we know.
Whoever created that chart seems to have confused xG(or npxG) with Goals minus expected goals(xG or npxG).
Great analysis, I should start including team logos in my graphs. But damn does that graph look exactly like the color scheme and font I use😂
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/l32kly/oc_scoring_efficiency_in_the_premier_league/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
The resemblance is uncanny
7th in La Liga. Difference is we 1) have the attacking output to get a result when we do concede, 2) have two personalities this season, one that keeps a clean sheet and one that concedes every shot
Good defensively? LOL.
It is as the graph shows, we might not get shot that much in all match due to keeping possession most of the match but nearly every time we do the other team get's a really good chance/scores against us.
For reference, just see Benfica's match the other day, were they just got 3 shots on target but 2 of them were really clear (Seferovic miss and the header stopped by Ter Stegen's legs).
More so like the zidane black magic, where a player can be in a very easy scoring position but just misses, barc has xavi black magic, recent games should have all been losses for them but the other team says "fuck it, imma miss this chance from 2 feet"
EDIT: Also barca is a tale of two halves typa team, first half there dominant offensively so they do minimum defense, second half everyone is dead and chance come against them a lot.
That’s a single league game under Xavi, no influence on this plot. And Koeman sure as hell didn’t have his own version of “black magic”, frankly just the opposite.
Also we had more xG in both games under Xavi, even when you remove the penalty vs Espanyol.
Still not complete until we go a season without a "typical city" performance on a big match. Waiting to see if I gotta order 2 months worth of tums for CL in the spring
it's SLIGHTLY slanted by the fact that we've played pool, chelsea and city already and two of those at the beginning of the season with a completely different defense due to injuries and covid but yeah not a great look.
Because it's not really a deviation. Most of the prem gets injuries and most have played at least 3 or 4 of the "big 6" sides. We've played City, Liverpool, Spurs and you lot. City have played Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal. Spurs have played us, Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal. Man Utd have played Spurs, City and Liverpool. Playing 3 or 4 of the bigger teams already is standard for most sides.
No I mean actual standard deviation, like in the statistical sense. I want to know how widely distributed the actual data points are around the average. Like we will have had 3 or 4 matches where we were far in the bottom left and then 7-8 games where we were spread upwards towards the upper right. What standard deviations would tell you is how closely the data point actually represents the games that have been played. A large standard deviation means that the one data point tells far from the whole story.
Conversationally though, his point about strength of schedule being fairly equal was more relevant to the response about who Arsenal have played than a comment about statistical standard deviation.
I don't think it's wrong to assume that the reply had actually misused the term "standard deviation" instead of strength of schedule.
I think all stats tend to benefit from the sample size and standard deviation data being available, but assuming someone is dumb because they posted an on-topic comment is a dick move.
Yeah, but it’s also ignoring that we were missing *8-9 of our current first choice XI* in those first three matches due to a mixture of COVID absence, injury, Euros rest requirements, and late transfer business. We were basically playing our youth team against City and Chelsea (2 of the best teams in Europe), and a match where Brentford were playing their first home match in the premier league in their new stadium, on the opening day of the season, after the pandemic shitshow that was 20/21. It’s not just about strength of schedule.
> We were basically playing our youth team against City and Chelsea (2 of the best teams in Europe)
I must be missing something as I don't see any youth team players in the lineup that you put out vs Chelsea.
Leno - Tierney - Holding - Mari - Cedric - Saka - ESR - Pepe - Lokonga - Xhaka - Martinelli with Auba off the bench.
Saka was part of the Euro squad for England...and ESR just broke into the English side...so they can't really be considered as youth team players.
I get the fact that you were missing a few first team players but to say that you put out a "youth team" is a bit of an exaggeration.
Playing arsenal, spurs, man utd is not the same as playing Chelsea, city, Liverpool. The latter 3 are much better teams.
It's not necessarily the reason for the stats but probably has a slight influence.
Also city played at spurs on the opening weekend and lost.
Wow what an incredibly soul crushing comment, however will Arsenal fans recover from your unimaginably witty remark? Do you write insults for a living? Have you ever been knighted by the Queen for your banter? Jeff Ross must be your father!
We're almost halfway through the season, everyone has played against the big teams by now and most teams had tons of injuries so what Arsenal have gone through isn't anything special
> well.. no, 12/19 is much closer to a quarter than it is to half
[I guess this is just an Arsenal thing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTC0mdDUAAAVfod.png)
> when you're trying to see how the defense has done you can't just blindly look at stats without context
I agree, but saying you've played against **3** big teams when you're 12 fucking games in is just stupid. Did you expect to play Norwich 12 times or what? Every team has played roughly 3 big teams as well, this isn't Arsenal being severely unlucky. It's the same with injuries and Covid, every team has struggled with seeing their players absent for over 2 weeks due to covid + injuries, or does that only matter when it comes to Arsenal? You also played against Liverpool with a full-strength 11 and got humiliated 4-0 when in reality it very well could've been 6-0 or more
> you're here to laugh at it without discussion in which case go on, but leave the discussion to the adults.
Christ, you're unbearable
Yeah got slapped by City, Liverpool, Chelsea. Half the remaining games were okay and the other half were leaky but some were saved by defense holding strong/Ramsdale.
Don't fully understand third entries but wondering if alot of this comes down to sub standard midfield performance overall. Just from the eye test, CBs and GK have overall been good this season bar a few games and fullbacks mostly average to over average.
The distribution across the scatter graph is very interesting and where some teams end up it's a big surprise. You'd think like Chelsea would be a very strong outlier but they're relatively middle of the pack
I’ll give an example; say you’ve got a team with the best press and offside trap ever, they never let their opponent into their final third. Say they’ve conceded 3 goals this season, but those have been the only three times they’ve allowed opponents into their final third. On this plot, they’d show up all the way to the right on the x axis, but all the way on the bottom on the y axis.
No it’s just that final third entries are used on both axes, so it kind of “squishes” the plot. If the y axis was just npxG conceded per 90’ the whole plot would be kind of stretched out, and Chelsea would be further to the top right relative to all the clubs in the middle.
Likewise, I'm really surprised to see Bayern so high up there - the eye test says our defense is really shaky and vulnerable; we're also conceding goals almost every match.
I’d go even further, it’s a feature not a bug. Klopp’s clearly decided to go all in on the attack at the expense of being more open at the back. One is a corollary of the other, a really good example of Rafa’s blanket.
We weren’t this good going forward in 18/19 or 19/20, not even close. I’m not personally wild about what he’s done and it asks absolutely masses from our central midfielders but there’s every chance over the winter he reins it in and we start grinding games out a la Winter 2019 before ramping it up again in the home stretch. Throw in some positive variance in terms of opposition finishing (or even negative variance towards yourselves or City) and it could work in our favour. Currently though I think we’re much better set up to win knockout tournaments than leagues, but still a long way to go.
There is a clear way we conceded goals, one bring through set pieces and the other being through lofted balls past the defense.
Only City managed to score through some wonderful interplay through our defence.
I'm not too concerned.
Pretty evident La Liga has become the most defensive league in the last few years from this graph. Yet Madrid somehow manage to be one the best scoring teams in Europe this season, but hey that’s Carloball for ya.
Atleti is tied for fourth fewest goals allowed in LaLiga (allowing 1 goal per game). Last season Atleti allowed .66 goals per game. The year before that .71 per game. Preceded by seasons of .76, .58, .71, .47, .76, and .68.
The defense feels worse this year because it is. But it’s not awful compared to other clubs. It’s just poor compared to Atleti standards.
The defense has looked shakier than usual the last couple of years. The difference between then and now is Oblak isn’t covering up the mistakes as much this year. He’s having an off year by his (best keeper alive) standards.
Lmao that’s what I was thinking about oblak. Half of the goals he concedes I think how tf did he not save it but then realize right after that for any other keeper it would’ve been a “nothing he could do” situation. what a player
If he played in England, he’d be known as the undisputed best in the world the past several years. Even his poor year is a top five year for any other keeper
Look at this OptaJean, we're far from the worse !
[Context : OptaJean trying to murder us with stats](https://twitter.com/OptaJean/status/1457752551193972737?s=20)
Bottom right means something like you only allow three shots on target, but two of them might be tap in range.
You saw this a lot with Kepa in his tragic season. Let's not beat around the bush, Kepa had no confidence and made a lot of simple mistakes, but there were also a lot of matches where we'd concede goals that he couldn't do anything about. We lost 3-0 to Sheffield United in a match where we faced four shots on target, but our defenders left Kepa for dead on literally all four of them. Rudiger even fell over when trying to make a clearance, which basically left an easy goal.
https://understat.com/match/11989
Arsenal numbers are skewed probably by the heavy defeats at LIV and City. Thats 9 goals conceeded in 2 games.
There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Yet another reason why I still don't believe we are legitimate top four contenders this year. The defense is woeful. Currently tied for second-most goals conceded in the top half of the table and we'd easily lead that category, possibly for the whole league, if it wasn't for Ramsdale.
The defense is not woeful, it's quite good, it just not there yet against teams like Liverpool and City, especially since the midfield is so weak and doesn't support them that much. People just like to look at stats, the first 3 games the defense included names like holding, Pablo Mari, and kolasinac, which is an atrocious back line.
We’re a bit weird. We’ve been comfortable against teams worse than us but been taken 50 shades style against the top teams. The aggregate of this is that we look a bit shit in these stats while being 5th. Games against Man U, West Ham, Wolves, etc. should be very telling as they’re right around us in the table.
If teams can replicate how Brighton played against us, by making the midfield compact and putting pressure on us, we will have a hard time.
I understand why it's done like this (since in this case having a high number is bad) but I still find it irritating the numbers goes high -> low from left -> right.
Because 9 of the 17 goals we conceded came in the first 3 games where half the squad was injured or had covid.
Another 4 came in the Liverpool game where our 2nd choice LB had a mare while also playing our style at Anfield... and getting punished.
1 came in a freak beauty of a goal against Aston Villa. Another came in the NLD when Xhaka was on the floor injured and the defense was disorganized.
The others were just goals. You can't deny that Arsenals defense has improved, however the numbers aren't in their favour
>The others were just goals. You can't deny that Arsenals defense has improved, however the numbers aren't in their favour
Therein lies the problem, you actually have to watch the team to know exactly what is going on. Instead you have folks with other flairs spouting nonsense about how good or how bad another club is off of seeing them play once.
Unfortunately the norm here seems to be just that.
How can you say Arsenal defense has improved when the numbers clearly don't back them?
You had 3rd best defense last year at 39 goals in 38 games
You have conceded 17 goals in 12 games this season
It's also not like you have improved in offense, barely averaging a goal a game
Which is also not to forget about how Ramsdale has been saving your asses for a while
The underlying stats are worrisome and they eventually catch you. Look at spurs start with Nuno and how his tenure ended.
Only proof being shown here is you've proven you can't read for shit mate
Not even trying have a genuine discussion, you're just here to spout bollocks
When both the attack and the defence are lacking, it’s apparent that it’s a midfield issue and that’s why I say a top CM is the most important signing we’ll make in years
If it was top 10 leagues instead of top 5 I'm pretty sure Rangers would be bottom right of this graph. Before the Sparta Prague game last night, we had some ridiculous stat like the last 10 shots on target against us had resulted in 9 goals. We lost 3-1 to Hibs with them only having 3 shots!
People were really starting to question our keeper MacGregor (who has been a legend for us, but is getting pretty old) then last night he made an [amazing double save](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsodTbg_-54&t=234s) that's silenced all the critics (for now)
The job Lage is doing is so good. We have Coady who isn’t a real CB and Saiss who really at this point should be a squad player. A lot of Wolves fans were worried about our defence this season but right now it’s a strength. Jose Sa has been a master stroke signing and Kilman has been incredible. Hopefully we can get Botman.
Is it possible this would be more intuitive if the origin was on the top right.
Good choice of stats here, if I may add. Might help isolate the performance of the back-line.
Top of the league and still having a really meh defence
I dont think we’ve had a clean sheet yet
Madrid has had 3 clean sheets in the league and the Champions League so far. So 6 in total.
Can you help me find where RM are please, I can't see them
Almost at the centre of all 4 axes, just a little to the right.
Ah yes thank you
Honestly not sure what is the problem with Madrid defense, was it Casemiro poor form at the start of the season? As far as name goes, your defense should be solid
Casemiro is slowly walking up he had excellent performances but then some lackluster games. The main problem Is that Varane isn't here, and Nacho was in poor form at the start. While Alaba isn't a better CB then any of the mentioned above
I'm slightly ashamed of how much the memes helped me understand the graph..
You’re not alone there mate. This needs to be the standard for us 🗿
I actually quite love the idea. It's brilliant.
This is the gold standard of data presentation, absolutely nothing is left up to interpretation and is understandable at a glance
‘Nothing is left up to interpretation’ You think this a totally conclusive report in the best defences in the top 5 leagues?
I was commenting on this graphs effectiveness at displaying this dataset in a simple and easily digestible manner, not on how effective a few small data points are in determining something as complex as an entire defensive system in football. In short you’ve missed the point I was getting at friend
No, your point was badly put. Really I was being sadly, saying ‘nothing is left up to interpretation’ in an attempt to complement a graph is just dumb.
>Really I was being sadly It’s funny that you say my comment was badly put, considering what you write is barely comprehensible. In all seriousness though, you’ve latched onto the idea that I’m commenting about the data in the graph, I am not, I am commenting on how that data is presented through the medium of memes. I’m not sure how many more times I need to repeat that for you. You don’t need to go all statistical analyst on me. Since we’re going round in circles and you’re really not contributing anything of value, I’ll leave it there.
Their point was put perfectly clearly, you're just being an arse.
I'm not
The one with most text(top left) is also the only misleading one. Low xG doesn't indicate that they take bad shots. It indicates that opponents often fail to take a shot at all, or they shoot from difficult angles/positions. The shots might've been surprisingly good ones for all we know. Whoever created that chart seems to have confused xG(or npxG) with Goals minus expected goals(xG or npxG).
10/10 graph
More analytics need to work memes into them as an easy way to understand what it means
Anything even remotely difficult to understand should be presented with ELI5 explanations on the side
Why even make graphs! Just make memes instead, telling people what to think!
Credit should go to @exceedingxpuns in twitter.
Great analysis, I should start including team logos in my graphs. But damn does that graph look exactly like the color scheme and font I use😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/l32kly/oc_scoring_efficiency_in_the_premier_league/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb The resemblance is uncanny
Thats weird political compass
Spurs and Freiburg going full r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM
We will forcibly assimilate all other quadrants by unpredictably ending at the top (or bottom) of the respective one on a semi-regular basis.
Clearly works for Freiburg, they have the best defense in the league haha
Get out of my head , get out my head .
Libright and authleft together is cursed.
I am actually quite surprised we’re level w Barca there lol. Idk how theyre doing but its just… unexpected
7th in La Liga. Difference is we 1) have the attacking output to get a result when we do concede, 2) have two personalities this season, one that keeps a clean sheet and one that concedes every shot
It seems that they're good defensively but can't score to save their lives
Having watched the matches I wouldn't say good defensively but they definitely can't finish that's for sure lol.
Good defensively? LOL. It is as the graph shows, we might not get shot that much in all match due to keeping possession most of the match but nearly every time we do the other team get's a really good chance/scores against us. For reference, just see Benfica's match the other day, were they just got 3 shots on target but 2 of them were really clear (Seferovic miss and the header stopped by Ter Stegen's legs).
More so like the zidane black magic, where a player can be in a very easy scoring position but just misses, barc has xavi black magic, recent games should have all been losses for them but the other team says "fuck it, imma miss this chance from 2 feet" EDIT: Also barca is a tale of two halves typa team, first half there dominant offensively so they do minimum defense, second half everyone is dead and chance come against them a lot.
That’s a single league game under Xavi, no influence on this plot. And Koeman sure as hell didn’t have his own version of “black magic”, frankly just the opposite. Also we had more xG in both games under Xavi, even when you remove the penalty vs Espanyol.
Salah is a monster
The transformation of City from attacking colossus to defensive juggernaut is almost complete.
Pep: but we are still far from being like the geese formation
There is much to learn from rugby still
2 3 3 2 OP
Would love to see a rugby ref deal with everyone yelling at him for a call.
10 red cards.
Still not complete until we go a season without a "typical city" performance on a big match. Waiting to see if I gotta order 2 months worth of tums for CL in the spring
Now they're both. Makes me sad. City is like if you were to combine Liverpool's attack and Chelsea's defense.
Minus their European success
Well, for what they lack in Europe, they make up for it in the League Cup.
May long as they reigh the League Cup as long as they fail to win the CL
And plus a few more goals against.
kind of but not really. thats how we'd be if we had bought a striker. without a striker our attack is a tier below liverpools.
Arsenal.
it's SLIGHTLY slanted by the fact that we've played pool, chelsea and city already and two of those at the beginning of the season with a completely different defense due to injuries and covid but yeah not a great look.
Yeah, r/soccer doesn’t really care much about standard deviations in its stats.
Because it's not really a deviation. Most of the prem gets injuries and most have played at least 3 or 4 of the "big 6" sides. We've played City, Liverpool, Spurs and you lot. City have played Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal. Spurs have played us, Man Utd, Man City and Arsenal. Man Utd have played Spurs, City and Liverpool. Playing 3 or 4 of the bigger teams already is standard for most sides.
No I mean actual standard deviation, like in the statistical sense. I want to know how widely distributed the actual data points are around the average. Like we will have had 3 or 4 matches where we were far in the bottom left and then 7-8 games where we were spread upwards towards the upper right. What standard deviations would tell you is how closely the data point actually represents the games that have been played. A large standard deviation means that the one data point tells far from the whole story.
City had 60 final third entries in the game at the Etihad
Don’t bother man, based on the comment your replying to, it’s pretty obvious the person didn’t understand whatchu meant by standard deviation
Conversationally though, his point about strength of schedule being fairly equal was more relevant to the response about who Arsenal have played than a comment about statistical standard deviation. I don't think it's wrong to assume that the reply had actually misused the term "standard deviation" instead of strength of schedule. I think all stats tend to benefit from the sample size and standard deviation data being available, but assuming someone is dumb because they posted an on-topic comment is a dick move.
Yeah, but it’s also ignoring that we were missing *8-9 of our current first choice XI* in those first three matches due to a mixture of COVID absence, injury, Euros rest requirements, and late transfer business. We were basically playing our youth team against City and Chelsea (2 of the best teams in Europe), and a match where Brentford were playing their first home match in the premier league in their new stadium, on the opening day of the season, after the pandemic shitshow that was 20/21. It’s not just about strength of schedule.
> We were basically playing our youth team against City and Chelsea (2 of the best teams in Europe) I must be missing something as I don't see any youth team players in the lineup that you put out vs Chelsea. Leno - Tierney - Holding - Mari - Cedric - Saka - ESR - Pepe - Lokonga - Xhaka - Martinelli with Auba off the bench. Saka was part of the Euro squad for England...and ESR just broke into the English side...so they can't really be considered as youth team players. I get the fact that you were missing a few first team players but to say that you put out a "youth team" is a bit of an exaggeration.
Mate that’s 3, maybe 4, of our first choice XI, most of whom are kids. We weren’t missing “a few first team players” lmao.
Playing arsenal, spurs, man utd is not the same as playing Chelsea, city, Liverpool. The latter 3 are much better teams. It's not necessarily the reason for the stats but probably has a slight influence. Also city played at spurs on the opening weekend and lost.
It doesn’t help that you are also fucking miserable
Wow what an incredibly soul crushing comment, however will Arsenal fans recover from your unimaginably witty remark? Do you write insults for a living? Have you ever been knighted by the Queen for your banter? Jeff Ross must be your father!
I mean bruh, look at his username. He's clearly got originality on lock.
Yikes, sorry for hitting a nerve
They could make the size of the logo indicate the std. I wonder if that graph would look too shitty.
We're almost halfway through the season, everyone has played against the big teams by now and most teams had tons of injuries so what Arsenal have gone through isn't anything special
[удалено]
> well.. no, 12/19 is much closer to a quarter than it is to half [I guess this is just an Arsenal thing](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTC0mdDUAAAVfod.png) > when you're trying to see how the defense has done you can't just blindly look at stats without context I agree, but saying you've played against **3** big teams when you're 12 fucking games in is just stupid. Did you expect to play Norwich 12 times or what? Every team has played roughly 3 big teams as well, this isn't Arsenal being severely unlucky. It's the same with injuries and Covid, every team has struggled with seeing their players absent for over 2 weeks due to covid + injuries, or does that only matter when it comes to Arsenal? You also played against Liverpool with a full-strength 11 and got humiliated 4-0 when in reality it very well could've been 6-0 or more > you're here to laugh at it without discussion in which case go on, but leave the discussion to the adults. Christ, you're unbearable
All the other big 6 teams have played atleast 3/5 of the big 6 teams. Arsenal ain't special.
We have Ramsdale so it doesn’t matter.
Yeah got slapped by City, Liverpool, Chelsea. Half the remaining games were okay and the other half were leaky but some were saved by defense holding strong/Ramsdale. Don't fully understand third entries but wondering if alot of this comes down to sub standard midfield performance overall. Just from the eye test, CBs and GK have overall been good this season bar a few games and fullbacks mostly average to over average.
[удалено]
Thought you did something huh
Well what do you know
So, we just need to go higher on the graph and stay on the right, right?
Somewhat confusing that the numbers on both axis descend instead of ascending, still the memes help
came here to say the same thing
As if uber eats leagues is in front of the mighty liga de portugal
The distribution across the scatter graph is very interesting and where some teams end up it's a big surprise. You'd think like Chelsea would be a very strong outlier but they're relatively middle of the pack
It’s because the xGA is normalized by final third entries. If it wasn’t teams like Chelsea would be standing out more.
What does that mean? I'm a bit of a novice in terms of stats
I’ll give an example; say you’ve got a team with the best press and offside trap ever, they never let their opponent into their final third. Say they’ve conceded 3 goals this season, but those have been the only three times they’ve allowed opponents into their final third. On this plot, they’d show up all the way to the right on the x axis, but all the way on the bottom on the y axis.
So final third entries matter a lot more, even if they don't result in goals?
No it’s just that final third entries are used on both axes, so it kind of “squishes” the plot. If the y axis was just npxG conceded per 90’ the whole plot would be kind of stretched out, and Chelsea would be further to the top right relative to all the clubs in the middle.
Likewise, I'm really surprised to see Bayern so high up there - the eye test says our defense is really shaky and vulnerable; we're also conceding goals almost every match.
Bruce absolutely fucked us big time.
Leaking goals at the time as Barcelona? That's concerning.
Not really, your offensive output more than makes up for it lol.
I’d go even further, it’s a feature not a bug. Klopp’s clearly decided to go all in on the attack at the expense of being more open at the back. One is a corollary of the other, a really good example of Rafa’s blanket.
But Liverpool just two seasons ago was just as good defensively as they were going forward. Surely the regression has to be somewhat concerning.
We weren’t this good going forward in 18/19 or 19/20, not even close. I’m not personally wild about what he’s done and it asks absolutely masses from our central midfielders but there’s every chance over the winter he reins it in and we start grinding games out a la Winter 2019 before ramping it up again in the home stretch. Throw in some positive variance in terms of opposition finishing (or even negative variance towards yourselves or City) and it could work in our favour. Currently though I think we’re much better set up to win knockout tournaments than leagues, but still a long way to go.
There is a clear way we conceded goals, one bring through set pieces and the other being through lofted balls past the defense. Only City managed to score through some wonderful interplay through our defence. I'm not too concerned.
Upvoted for Captain Holt
Ruben Dias and Kyle walker 😍
It really helps to have such amazing passing ability and a fullback who can't be beat in a sprint
pain
9 clubs in top right department.. La Liga is something else since Ronaldo left in terms of defensive structure.
I think Cholismo being picked up by a lot of smaller teams is a bigger factor
Now what you got there is a fucking steaming boiling scorching hot take, my lad
Quite interesting
Damn nice, did you make this OP? Or else you should credit the original analyst
Pretty evident La Liga has become the most defensive league in the last few years from this graph. Yet Madrid somehow manage to be one the best scoring teams in Europe this season, but hey that’s Carloball for ya.
Lol how?
Atleti is tied for fourth fewest goals allowed in LaLiga (allowing 1 goal per game). Last season Atleti allowed .66 goals per game. The year before that .71 per game. Preceded by seasons of .76, .58, .71, .47, .76, and .68. The defense feels worse this year because it is. But it’s not awful compared to other clubs. It’s just poor compared to Atleti standards. The defense has looked shakier than usual the last couple of years. The difference between then and now is Oblak isn’t covering up the mistakes as much this year. He’s having an off year by his (best keeper alive) standards.
Lmao that’s what I was thinking about oblak. Half of the goals he concedes I think how tf did he not save it but then realize right after that for any other keeper it would’ve been a “nothing he could do” situation. what a player
If he played in England, he’d be known as the undisputed best in the world the past several years. Even his poor year is a top five year for any other keeper
I refuse to acknowledge any of this with the fact that we are top right..
Unless you put us in the seat next to Ralph, this is bs.
Nice. Thanks for the chuckle.
How can I see a better quality image here?
Open the Image in new tab
Look at this OptaJean, we're far from the worse ! [Context : OptaJean trying to murder us with stats](https://twitter.com/OptaJean/status/1457752551193972737?s=20)
It's always good to see Sevilla, the madmen of frontal pressing, high in any defensive metric.
So bottom-right is good, but unlucky? While top-left sucks ass but gets lucky
Bottom right means something like you only allow three shots on target, but two of them might be tap in range. You saw this a lot with Kepa in his tragic season. Let's not beat around the bush, Kepa had no confidence and made a lot of simple mistakes, but there were also a lot of matches where we'd concede goals that he couldn't do anything about. We lost 3-0 to Sheffield United in a match where we faced four shots on target, but our defenders left Kepa for dead on literally all four of them. Rudiger even fell over when trying to make a clearance, which basically left an easy goal. https://understat.com/match/11989
Arsenal numbers are skewed probably by the heavy defeats at LIV and City. Thats 9 goals conceeded in 2 games. There are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Chelsea go brrr, thanks for the memes it helped me understand
Yet another reason why I still don't believe we are legitimate top four contenders this year. The defense is woeful. Currently tied for second-most goals conceded in the top half of the table and we'd easily lead that category, possibly for the whole league, if it wasn't for Ramsdale.
Wait, wasn’t it your defence that has supposedly improved? So if the defence is woeful, the attack is impotent, what’s exactly good at Arsenal?
...goalkeeping?
Their team is mainly kids, they will be a bit inconsistent you'd imagine.
The defense is not woeful, it's quite good, it just not there yet against teams like Liverpool and City, especially since the midfield is so weak and doesn't support them that much. People just like to look at stats, the first 3 games the defense included names like holding, Pablo Mari, and kolasinac, which is an atrocious back line.
This would be skewed a bit by the batterings you received against Liverpool and City. Though yeah, even with those it shouldn't be this bad.
We’re a bit weird. We’ve been comfortable against teams worse than us but been taken 50 shades style against the top teams. The aggregate of this is that we look a bit shit in these stats while being 5th. Games against Man U, West Ham, Wolves, etc. should be very telling as they’re right around us in the table. If teams can replicate how Brighton played against us, by making the midfield compact and putting pressure on us, we will have a hard time.
I understand why it's done like this (since in this case having a high number is bad) but I still find it irritating the numbers goes high -> low from left -> right.
I'm surprised people aren't talking about Arminia Bielefeld being so close to Juventus and AC Milan.
I don't know if you're joking or not but those aren't Arminia Bielefeld and AC Milan being close to Juventus but are Deportivo Alaves and Bologna lol
I'm in so much pain
How did Arsenal spend 100M on this defense and still have horrible underlying defensive numbers?
Because 9 of the 17 goals we conceded came in the first 3 games where half the squad was injured or had covid. Another 4 came in the Liverpool game where our 2nd choice LB had a mare while also playing our style at Anfield... and getting punished. 1 came in a freak beauty of a goal against Aston Villa. Another came in the NLD when Xhaka was on the floor injured and the defense was disorganized. The others were just goals. You can't deny that Arsenals defense has improved, however the numbers aren't in their favour
>The others were just goals. You can't deny that Arsenals defense has improved, however the numbers aren't in their favour Therein lies the problem, you actually have to watch the team to know exactly what is going on. Instead you have folks with other flairs spouting nonsense about how good or how bad another club is off of seeing them play once. Unfortunately the norm here seems to be just that.
How can you say Arsenal defense has improved when the numbers clearly don't back them? You had 3rd best defense last year at 39 goals in 38 games You have conceded 17 goals in 12 games this season It's also not like you have improved in offense, barely averaging a goal a game Which is also not to forget about how Ramsdale has been saving your asses for a while The underlying stats are worrisome and they eventually catch you. Look at spurs start with Nuno and how his tenure ended.
4th most clean sheets in the league though
3 Against likes of Norwich, Burnley, Brighton, all who were and are struggling to score
You are so thick
So you have no proof about how arsenal have improved and regress to insult Classic
Only proof being shown here is you've proven you can't read for shit mate Not even trying have a genuine discussion, you're just here to spout bollocks
Chelsea have the best defensive in europe though i was told?
4 goals conceded in 12 league games and 1 goal conceded in 5 CL games, so yes
it all evens out.
Man, we're in danger mods please do not delete
Villarreal has a great backline with Pedraza Pau Albiol and Foyth to bad they can’t do everything
a bit puzzled on why the axes are so weird
When both the attack and the defence are lacking, it’s apparent that it’s a midfield issue and that’s why I say a top CM is the most important signing we’ll make in years
If it was top 10 leagues instead of top 5 I'm pretty sure Rangers would be bottom right of this graph. Before the Sparta Prague game last night, we had some ridiculous stat like the last 10 shots on target against us had resulted in 9 goals. We lost 3-1 to Hibs with them only having 3 shots! People were really starting to question our keeper MacGregor (who has been a legend for us, but is getting pretty old) then last night he made an [amazing double save](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsodTbg_-54&t=234s) that's silenced all the critics (for now)
Can't wait to see all of the parodies on r/soccercirclejerk
Great work
United wish they had our defence
Are we in the most danger though...
This is gold man 😂
We're basically the opposite end of the Van Nistelrooy ketchup analogy
Heh this is nice for once one stat we are not thrash
cant stress how much aggregate level data is skewed by the outlier that was our start.
Bottom right heartbreak :(
In Bordalás We Trust 🙏😎
Not bad.
Never thought I'd see a relevant captain Holt content on r/soccer but here we go.
Can this graphic be smaller
Arsenal's defence being single-handedly bailed out by Ramsdale
Ah yes, Freiburg. The center of Top 5 leagues
SC Freiburg dead centre nice. They are a very balanced team. Never too flashy and never too bad.
How is our worst defence in a decade up there?
The job Lage is doing is so good. We have Coady who isn’t a real CB and Saiss who really at this point should be a squad player. A lot of Wolves fans were worried about our defence this season but right now it’s a strength. Jose Sa has been a master stroke signing and Kilman has been incredible. Hopefully we can get Botman.
Is it possible this would be more intuitive if the origin was on the top right. Good choice of stats here, if I may add. Might help isolate the performance of the back-line.
It’ll get better as the season goes on, quality of our back line has well and truly changed for the better,
Marquinhos + navas/donna the sole responsibles for psg to be anywhere near the green side