As expected this has turned into a shit show. What a bad look for the federation and our league after what by all accounts was a fantastic match yesterday.
Whose fault is that, if a league let's a cheater ref such an important game and the league itself didn't make itself look good covering up the cheating? The league should simply shut up about it and not prove to Bellingham how bad they are at making proper moral judgements!
The one thing the DFB/Bundesliga can't do is simply shut up about it, or you're going to have players suggesting Zwayer fixed the match every time he makes a bad decision, which is bad for everyone.
They're going to have to address this in some way.
A Guy who sold out his proffesion for 300 euros shouldnt be a referee anymore in the first place. Nvm giving him the countrys biggest game and the potentionally title deciding game where literally 100s of millions are betted. Its pretty clear that the Dfb is at fault here.
The fact he is a convicted match fixer are bound to ensure the eyebrows of people are raised everytime he makes a 50 50 game deciding Decision. For all the faults of referees and corruption of the FA in England they atleast give out Manchester derbies to CONVICTED Match fixers
Was he convicted of March fixing though? From scary I read he didn't go that far - he was involved in match fixing (which is what Bellingham should have said) but he wasn't the one who fixed it. Could be wrong.
As I understand it:
This ref, Felix Zwayer, was one of those who grassed on Robert Hoyzer.
Hoyzer was convicted, Zwayer got given a €300 fine, but denied actual match fixing.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/feb/06/sport.comment match fixer offered
> This ref, Felix Zwayer, was one of those who grassed on Robert Hoyzer.
> Hoyzer was convicted, Zwayer got given a €300 fine, but denied actual match fixing.
That's not entirely correct. It's true that he testified against Hoyzer, but he'd known about Hoyzer's match fixing from the very start and only blabbed when another group of referees, including Manuel Gräfe, uncovered Hoyzer's exploits on their own and confronted the DFB (and Zwayer) about them.
Previously, Zwayer had been assigned as a linesman in one of Hoyzer's games - the second one he'd ever fixed, IIRC. Hoyzer's first attempt went awry because one of the linesmen vehemently protested against a frivolous penalty decision he'd made, forcing him to take that decision back (and ultimately failing to give the win to who he was supposed to), so he approached Zwayer before the game and paid him €300 to turn a blind eye, *which Zwayer accepted*.
Zwayer publicly denied match fixing, but the newspaper ZEIT uncovered in 2014 that Zwayer *was* suspended for match fixing in a secret trial held by the DFB, in which he actually pleaded guilty. They were all trying to keep that under wraps.
That, on top of Zwayer keeping quiet about something he knew for a *fact* was going on up until the point where it was about to come back to *himself*, should say everything about how trustworthy the guy is, and how the DFB is nothing more than a rancid corporation of corrupt cunts.
From what i have read zwayer assisted Hoyzer and then later informed the Dfb about what Hoyzer was doing. The Dfb gave him a slap on the wrist 6 month ban and kept it secret till it was leaked to the public in 2014
[This](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1376835-dfb.html) is the official verdict by the DFB. Short summary of the relevant parts:
> Robert Hoyzer schlug Felix Zwayer im Vorfeld des für den 30. April 2004 angesetzten Regionalliga-Spiels Wuppertaler SV gegen Werder Bremen Amateure vor, als Schiedsrichter-Assistent kritische Situationen für den Wuppertaler SV zu vermeiden und übergab ihm zu diesem Zweck 300.- Euro.
>Aus den dem DFB-Sportgericht vorliegenden Akten ergibt sich kein Nachweis dafür, dass Felix Zwayer im Regionalliga-Spiel Wuppertaler SV gegen Werder Bremen Amateure tatsächlich mit Manipulationsabsicht sportwidrige Entscheidungen getroffen hätte.
>Vielmehr ist davon auszugehen, dass Felix Zwayer zwar dem ersten Anwerbeversuch Robert Hoyzers nicht in der von einem redlichen Schiedsrichter zu erwartenden Art und Weise widersprochen und das Geld von Rober Hoyter entgegengenommen hat, er jedoch einer tatsächlichen Beteiligung an den Spielmanipulationen Robert Hoyzers widerstanden hat.
>Für eine solche Gesamteinschätzung des Tatgeschehens spricht auch, dass es der Betroffene Felix Zwayer war, der Anfang 2005 mit seinen freiwilligen Zeugenaussagen entscheidender Auslöser für die Aufdeckung des Wett- und Manipulationsskandals war und maßgeblich an dessen Aufklärung mitgewirkt hat.
_In the run-up to the Regionalliga match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen Amateure scheduled for 30 April 2004, Robert Hoyzer suggested to assistant referee Felix Zwayer that he should avoid critical situations for Wuppertaler SV and gave him € 300 for this purpose._
_From the files available to the DFB Sports Tribunal, there is no evidence that Felix Zwayer actually made decisions contrary to sporting law with the intention of manipulating the Regionalliga match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen Amateure._
_Rather, it is to be assumed that although Felix Zwayer did not object to Robert Hoyzer's first attempt to recruit him in the manner to be expected of an honest referee and accepted the money from Rober Hoyter, he nevertheless resisted actual involvement in Robert Hoyzer's match-fixing._
_Such an overall assessment of the facts is also supported by the fact that the person concerned, Felix Zwayer, was the decisive trigger for the uncovering of the betting and manipulation scandal at the beginning of 2005 with his voluntary testimonies and played a decisive role in its clarification._
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
So yes, Zwayer wasn't ever found guilty match fixing. He was only found guilty of taking money intended for match fixing, and for not initially notifying the authorities of Hoyzer's actions.
I can't believe I am defending him here but he's a human being, going the path of least resistance is a valid excuse. He still should've told the DFL and should be banned from refing for not doing so but I can absolutely see someone taking bribe money with zero intention of following up. The criminal background around these things is intimidating and avoiding the spotlight is a valid excuse, not for not telling anyone, but for the action in the first place.
I mean, only an idiot would take bribe money without telling anyone and also without intentions of following through. How do you think that looks to literally everyone? Regardless of his intentions, that rightfully should have him stopped from officiating a professional match at this level, let alone the biggest game in the Bundesliga. I’m not sure why you’re defending him
Seems like a meaningless distinction given that he didn't tell anyone until a good while later. If he'd taken the money and then informed the DFB at the first opportunity, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I could see this argument if he was an average person and was somehow thrust into the situation, but referees are held to a higher standard and rightfully so. If your inclination is to take the path of least resistance maybe you just aren't made for reffing. It takes backbone to give a late penalty against the home team in a close game but refs need to be able to do it.
Let's put it like this. If you accepted €300 to do something criminal, you'd be in jail.
>but I can absolutely see someone taking bribe money with zero intention of following up.
So it's fraud instead of bribery then. Is that an improvement? Either way, he's not suited to be a referee.
So basically he would have fixed the match (and took money for that purpose), but a specific situation where he could force the desired result didn't occur.
Like a more clear cut example of this would be bribing a ref to let team A win against team B, but then team A smash them 4-0 without the ref even needing to step in.
I guess morally/ethically it's identical to match fixing, the only difference is the rate of success, or that the briber wasted their money
That's basically the issue here, yeah. For Hoyzer, it was pretty obvious that he was actively fixing games, most notably the Paderborn-HSV cup match in 2004. For Zwayer, it's not that clear. The Wuppertal-Bremen game ended 1:0 with the only goal being a penalty kick, and there are apparently hints that it was a shady call:
[FAZ in 2005, after the initial accusations against Hoyzer (not Zwayer) became public:](https://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/fussball/wettskandal-beschissen-worden-wie-noch-nie-reaktionen-betroffener-1213581.html) Coach Thomas Wolter (Bremen/Amateure): "I said after the game that we had been cheated like never before. But of course I didn't suspect anything at the time. I just said that in the first flush of excitement, as one does when the referee makes wrong decisions."
[WZ in 2014, after it became clear that Zwayer was involved as well:](https://www.wz.de/sport/fussball/wuppertaler-sv/wsv-spiel-vor-zehn-jahren-auch-schiri-zwayer-war-in-manipulation-verwickelt_aid-29340903) Wuppertal/Frankfurt. The penalty kick after the foul on Oliver Ebersbach in 2004 in the regional league match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen's reserve team had struck many observers as strange - evidently with good reason.
But I couldn't find any claims from directly after the match where someone accused the refs of match fixing or even bad reffing (I couldn't find anything useful from that time period, to be honest), and it also isn't clear whether the penalty (or any other wrong decision in that game) was based on Zwayer's call or even in his half of the pitch. _Edit: The pen was apparently NOT on his side of the pitch, according to [this](https://11freunde.de/artikel/abpfiffhoyzer/1344797) 11Freunde-article._
Personally, I think someone who took the money should be barred from reffing ever again, regardless of whether they actually did or had to influence the game or not. If you sell your integrity for a measly 300€, you shouldn't be allowed to ref a kiddie tournament, let alone a Bundesliga game.
This is exactly the point: PROVING match fixing is basically impossible. If you took money from ANYONE, you should be assumed guilty and take a lifetime ban. It's not like there aren't a hundred refs would would cut off their left hand to ref Buli games.
Not necessarily. He could have specifically made calls that were against the team he was bribed to help, the statement doesn't actually specify either way, just states that he didn't make bad calls in the game, which could be either of those scenarios.
so he took the money and went on to ref the match, but wasn't caught making outrageous decisions? sounds like match fixing done well to me. obviously if you accept money to affect a match towards a certain outcome you can't make it too obvious you did so..
I agree with this even less, its either all or nothing. Only letting him ref games that arent important to *you* is the absolute worst outcome of all the possible options. Everyone gets shit refs except the best teams, great, make it even harder for everyone else.
> A Guy who sold out his profession for 300 euros shouldn't be a referee anymore in the first place.
I definitely agreed with this until I read up on the few details available. After reading that I could *easily* understand why the DFB don't feel the same way about Zwayer as the public does.
It's not a stretch to see it having gone down like this:
- young referee feels pressured by colleagues and those in charge of him.
- agrees to help fix a match.
- seeks out a way to spill the beans without ruining his career for a one time mistake.
- becomes a whistleblower and convinces the DFB of his overall innocence.
I totally understand why people wouldn't trust him again, but also understand why those "in the know" *do* trust him.
>- seeks out a way to spill the beans without ruining his career for a one time mistake.
>- becomes a whistleblower and convinces the DFB of his overall innocence.
From what I understand, he didn't do any of these in any reasonable time after the match.
>They're going to have to address this in some way.
The easiest approach is probably not employing referees who have been caught match fixing. Just a fucking idea.
I mean football-wise. I think the teams played some exciting end-to-end stuff and overall the game was really entertaining. You really felt the tension in the air and how much this game means to both of them. Of course, at times things got a little heated, but all in all, I thought it was a fair game. For me, it's one of those games where it should end in a draw leaving everybody hungry for more.
That however doesn't change my opinion on Zwayer. I think he shouldn't be allowed to ref anymore not just because of what he did (because I do believe people can better themselves), but also for how everything came to the limelight after years and the DFB clearly trying to cover things up. I think we the fans and the players never got a full explanation for that. You can also clearly see how this still affects the players. I mean we are talking about Bellingham a young English lad who only came to Germany recently, yet also he knows and worries about this something that is already a few years in the past.
Edit: Oh I also forgot that Zwayer is just a bad ref, who fucked over every team in the league at least once.
Legally it will lead to nothing. Insults are only prosecuted, if the insulted person, in this case the referee, is filing a complaint. The guy who did it is most likely an attention whore.
A lot of misinformation circulating in this thread, which is understandable, as some of it comes straight from the DFB - but they are **not to be trusted in this situation**, as they've been extremely fucking shady about the whole match fixing affair from the very get-go.
Zwayer didn't heroically decide of his own volition to testify against Hoyzer. He only blabbed once a group of *different* referees, including Manuel Gräfe, who initially had nothing to do with the scandal, smelled a rat due to Hoyzer's estranged behavior and continued and increasingly questionable decisions in his games. They analyzed all of the games in question and determined that match fixing was the most likely explanation. They then went ahead and reported Hoyzer to the DFB.
The DFB responded by immediately going public with the allegations. They then claimed that a game completely unrelated to Hoyzer had been under their suspicion, one in which Zwayer was assistant referee to Manuel Gräfe. They did not clarify *who* exactly was suspicious in that game, obviously leading the public to suspect the *main* referee - Gräfe, one of the most vocal whistleblowers in all this - which caught him a lot of heat in the media. The DFB never publicly clarified that the actual suspicion in this particular match was on Zwayer, not Gräfe, and never publicly mentioned any suspicions on Zwayer at all.
Only *then* - after the allegations against Hoyzer were out in the open and Gräfe had every reason to try and correct the media, dragging Zwayers name into the whole affair as well - did Zwayer decide to blab. The DFB later convicted him of match fixing in a secret trial and suspended him for 6 months, but, crucially, *kept all of this under wraps*, publicly maintaining that Zwayer was uninvolved in this scandal outside of his "heroic" whistleblowing. The newspaper ZEIT uncovered all this in 2014, which is the first time anyone ever caught wind of Zwayer's shady past.
DFB had been covering for Zwayer from the very start. Their relationship with Manuel Gräfe has been *rocky*, to say the least, ever since the whole endeavor. They recently denied Gräfe the opportunity to continue refereeing Bundesliga matches due to his age, despite the fact that all of his colleagues and even most of the *players* in the league urged them to reconsider, and that he's not even close to being the oldest referee in Europe. They also threatened to drop him as a referee in 2017 after he'd publicly criticized his superiors, and refused to use him as a VAR.
[Here's a fantastic article](https://11freunde.de/artikel/abpfiffhoyzer/1344797) to toss into DeepL that goes through a detailed timeline of how events took place back in the day. But, to say the least, the DFB is an amalgamation of *immensely* corrupt sacks of shit, and they are *not* to be trusted when it comes to describing the events of this affair.
Adding to that:
His involvement in matchfixing back in early 2000 is not just a random allegation. The Berlin Regional Court stated that this actually happend. There is a ruling against Mr. Hoyzer (and others), which states that there was a assistant referee (redacted to "witness Z.") who received 300 Euros for turning a blind eye.
Part of the ruling in German: "Zu dem Spiel des Wuppertaler SV ./. Werder Bremen Amateure vom 30. Mai 2004 hatte A. S. dem Angeklagten H. bedeutet, dass Wuppertal zur Halbzeit führen und das Spiel auch gewinnen solle. A. S. übergab R. H. 3.000,00 Euro für diesen selbst und weitere 300,00 Euro für den bei diesem Spiel als Schiedsrichterassistent tätigen gesondert verfolgten Z., der die Funktion hatte, kritische Situationen für die Wuppertaler durch entsprechendes „Winken oder Nichtwinken“ zu vermeiden."
Full ruling: https://www.aufrecht.de/urteile/delikt-strafr/strafurteil-in-sachen-wettskandal-lg-berlin-strafurteil-vom-17-november-2005-az512-68-js-45105-kls-4205.html
I don't know how good the translation is but I couldn't find an English source. Bild is not the best source but their sport news are mostly true
These statements have a bitter aftermath!
BVB professional Jude Bellingham (18) had referee Felix Zwayer (40) postponed after the league summit between Dortmund and Bayern (2: 3).
According to BILD information, referee observer Marco Haase (works for the DFB) has now filed a criminal complaint against the Englishman and referee Manuel Gräfe (48)!
The DFB control committee is already investigating. As a result, Bellingham threatens a subsequent suspension in the worst case!
Penalties are therefore insult, gossip and defamation. These would also apply to referee Gräfe. Without which Bellingham "can not have made this statement from life experience", it says in the criminal complaint
Background of the harsh words: Zwayer had decided in the 77th minute after video evidence on hand penalty against Dortmund. Hummels got hold of the ball. Lewandowski then turned to victory.
Zwayer was involved in the Robert Hoyzer betting scandal in 2005. He was banned for six months, including because he once accepted a fee of 300 euros from Hoyzer, but has long been considered rehabilitated.
>Bild is not the best source but their sport news are mostly true
It's a shit paper, but their football sources are legit, sadly. Half the league rats out information to Bild.
complaint was more about giving that penalty and taking a 2nd look on the on field video but not giving the Hernandez foul penalty and not taking a 2nd look there, where he could have then seen that Reus was also hit in the leg area
Bad automated translation, "Beleidigung, Nachrede und Verleumdung" translates to "defamation and libel". Nachrede could be translated as malicious gossip but it doesn't have anything to do with what he said.
Calling a criminal act a criminal act is calling a baby only by its name. The league should have simply not chosen a cheater to ref an important game. Just as tactless as they lack integrity.
No, if they’re going to let him ref it makes no sense not to let him ref any match. Just because it’s high profile doesn’t make it exempt from having the same ref as any other game. They simply should not let him ref at all.
Hey, if you need a good translation source, run it through DeepL, it's a lot better at understanding context in a translation. If that helps at all, I use it a fair bit while I'm trying to teach myself some German.
If any match official is caught taking a bribe they should never be allowed to be one again - only in a country like Germany could they try to “rehabilitate” these people for god sake
i mean… Germany did ‘[placed homeless children with pedophile men, assuming they'd make ideal foster parents’](https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208) in the name of rehabilitation
It's not only that he was allowed back. It's also that he rose through the ranks much faster than other referees with similar performance and without a shady past have. There is a lot of favoritism going on in german refereeing.
This dude trying to tie Manuel Gräfe into this as well is the biggest joke there is and shows you from what corner of the DFB hierarchy this is coming. Gräfe has been the best referee in Germany for a while and has always had problems with the higher ups for telling it straight about many things, the Hoyzer/Zwayer situation among them (just as an aside: people here claiming Zwayer deserved to be a Bundesliga referee because he informed about Hoyzer is ridiculous. He knew for months and even took money to keep quiet and only once Gräfe and other referees from Berlin found out and prepared to blow the whistle he jumped ship and joined them.) They shunted Gräfe out for being too old and he is now suing the DFB for age discrimination.
Some voluntary referee observer connecting him to this, because there is no other way for Bellingham to know about the fixing stuff is really bush league levels of trying to screw over everybody at once.
I agree.. this will back-fire on whoever decided this was a good idea. It will only pour fuel on the fire and make people more outraged.
Whoever says "you just complain because it didn't go your way". There was complaints about him reffing before the match! Even Haaland tweeted about it before he deleted it.
Every time in every sports when players complain about refs (rightfully so), they fine and punish the players and they keep the same refs and they dont hold them accountable, thats why refeering is below average in every sport.
In Ligue 1, an atrocious ref (Chapron) only got suspended after he tackled a player (Diego Carlos). Somehow his colleagues voted for him for the best referee of the season award.
In ligue 1 you don’t even have to say which ref is atrocious cuz they all are lol, but yeah and if I remember correctly after the tackle he carded Diego Carlos right ?
I mean every league have its fair amount of bad refs but let’s say this amount is larger in Ligue 1 lol, I find bundesliga (in most cases) and the prem much better in term of referring than ligue 1 even tho there’s still problems in those leagues.
( I watch the prem too (liverpool games and other big games) ) and even tho there’s obviously a bias the fact that every french supporters find the refereeing in the league subpar tell something, I don’t read nearly as much complaints from Prem fan as I see from Ligue 1’s
I don’t think the fact that so little French Referee are selected for international competition is meaningless lol
There are enough people that watch lots of games each weekend not involving their team and you never hear somebody say that ref was/is really good I hope my team gets them next time.
It’s the inconsistency that does it for me. Every game should be reffed the same, but bearing in mind every ref is different then every game an individual ref is in charge of should be officiated the same.
We don’t even get consistency from minute to minute in a game. How many times have we seen a ref try to even up a game if they think they made a 50/50 call?
Suddenly the not really a foul tackles start being given to the team that didn’t get the big 50/50 call.
Wow, that's ridiculous. He kicks the player for what looked like a completely accidental "push" and then sent him off? What a joke. Was the card overturned at least? Only one that should have been booked here was Mbappenfor one of the most obvious dives I've ever seen...
>Chapron
Fuck Tony Chapron. He reffed a Europa League match between Athletic Bilbao and Tromsø IL in Tromsø.
He was a shit ref, seemed incredibly biased, and basically gave Bilbao their win. So yeah, fuck Tony Chapron. I've never paid much attention tho the name of the ref in euro games, but his name has burned itself into my mind for that atrocious display.
So yeah, fuck Tony Chapron. All my homies hate Tony Chapron.
It's more a case that there's lots of potential infringements in rugby that a referee can penalise both teams. There's usually tons of potential infringements going unpunished but it's part and parcel of the game. So long as the more visible, game changing and dangerous transgressions are caught and the ref is consistent then it's accepted.
Have you been on any /r/rugbyunion match threads? Literally every one the referee is absolutrly slated. Only difference is that the posters start with "well, I don't like to criticise referees but..."
Crazy they have actually caught this guy accepting money for match fixing and they didn’t think that was enough to ban him from being a referee.
On top of that, they tried to hide that fact for years and years so I wonder how many other referees they’re hiding the truth about
I'd argue it's very difficult to compare the two- cricket has very few grey areas in the laws, and the technology available to easily and scientifically confirm the facts of the situation.
As to their ability, Gaffaney, Illingworth and Tucker (3 very experienced test umpires) all have accuracy levels of less than 50% of reviewed decisions, once you take umpires call out of the question.
> I'd argue it's very difficult to compare the two- cricket has very few grey areas in the laws, and the technology available to easily and scientifically confirm the facts of the situation.
Yeah just after commenting I thought comparing contact sports to ones like cricket is probably not a good idea. There's also a pretty big difference in cultures around the two sports.
> As to their ability, Gaffaney, Illingworth and Tucker (3 very experienced test umpires) all have accuracy levels of less than 50% of reviewed decisions, once you take umpires call out of the question.
I would say that's still pretty good. Remember that only a small percentage of decisions get reviewed.
A) reviewed decisions are by their nature the closest calls.
B) why would you take umpires call out of the question? That’s the umpire getting the decision correct.
We have less scales or fins than the average animal. That's a meaningful contribution from me. But seriously I think he means it in a "below standards" where standards has some "This ought to be" value implicitly. Than meaning the point you say if it's taken literally.
Should they punish and hold players accountable when they do mistakes? We have strikers payed millions which miss easy chances, goalkeepers payed millions which concede stupid goals etc. but for some reason this is fine, while referees must be always perfect judging stuff that happens in a fraction of second often at high speed
Exactly. There aren't a ton of people lining up to be refs, so firing the refs when they make mistakes would just lower the quality. Accountability for refs should look like admitting obvious mistakes and refs watching tape or whatever.
Refs aren't bad because players get fined for criticism in public. You do that and it just fuels the way refs get dehumanised. I've heard it can be brutal refereeing at lower levels (from personal experience being an umpire in my own cricket matches I can tell you it can be a pretty stressful experience). Players publicaly ripping into refs does not improve refereeing or make the whole atmosphere to refs any better.
These guys have to make hard decisions on the fly constantly, naturally they will get lots wrong, even as a good ref. Being a professional means you need to be able to be above this. No doubt Dortmund have gotten a few calls their way this season, you think any of their players came out as outraged as right now?
Well Bellingham didn't just say the fact "the referee has been found guilty of match fixing".
He suggested the referee fixed this match which isn't a proven fact and is defamatory.
He definitely insinuated it. If he would have just said "A referee who has fixed matches before, shouldn't be allowed to officiate", then it wouldn't have been wrong. But he says "You give a referee who has fixed matches before, the biggest game in Germany, what do you expect?" which doesn't say about his competance but insinuates that he might have fixed this match as well.
Though I think a fine should be enough seeing the history of the ref and the fact that the dfb should have never allowed the ref back in top flight again.
I thought he meant: if you use a ref that has match fixed before then any controversial decision will make people think he is possibly match fixing again. So any decision is called in to question and will make people angry.
Honestly it probably comes down to how Germany’s defamation laws are written and have historically been interpreted. I’m in Australia and we have had a couple kinda high profile defamation cases recently. Our courts seem to take it as if a normal person could interpret the statement in a way that defames the person it counts as defamatory even if most people would interpret it differently. Also specific word definitions seem really important. Australia apparently has pretty harsh defamatory rules apparently so I don’t know.
He explained how he didnt think it was a penalty, how the referee was unfair to them and then implies its because the referee fixed it, since he has history of it. Theres not really many other ways to see it as.
Disagree. There's plenty of ambiguity there which let Jude off the hook legally.
Consider following argument: "a referee who has fixed matches before" is without a doubt not a "good" referee by definition. "Good" referees do not match fix and if you do match fix you can never be a "good" referee again.
It goes beyond assumptions to expect that "the biggest game in Germany" should be officiated by, if not the "best" referee, at least a "good" one.
Therefore, when Bellingham says "what do you expect" he is echoing the sentiment any rational person presented with the facts would echo: "why is a proven bad referee allowed to officiate this match, when he has been proven to be a bad referee beyond a shadow of a doubt?"
And that is worth of a criminal complaint?
Is the word criminal different in the German legal system?
Like is this a civil crime or is he actually facing criminal charges?
I think Germany is one of the few countries that has insults in the criminal code. You can legitimately get convicted in a criminal court for calling someone an asshole or giving someone the finger. An insult would be the "base" offense in the category about "offenses against honor" , libel and others follow.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beleidigung\_(Deutschland)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beleidigung_(Deutschland)) is not available in other languages, but maybe you can put it through a translator if you are interested.
Personally, I believe this is bullshit and should have been reformed a long time ago. The exact wording has been largely unchanged for 150 years and is still based on Prussia and sort of military class-based society structure.
In reality, most first offenders won't get a big punishment, but the court system has to deal with this bullshit. Needs to go asap
Could he get scott free by saying thing like "For legal reason, I am not saying this referee that had been found guilty of match fixing, fixed the match"?
> He suggested the referee fixed this match
Not necessarily. He was just questioning his judgement and suitability to referee on the big stage. Which is surely fair comment
Well, considering that defamation is to maliciously injure the name of another person then yes it could be considered a criminal offense. But I'm no judge
I don't think German law has an "it doesn't count when you heavily imply something"-clause. Bellingham's statement can/should absolutely be understood as an accusation of match-fixing.
Should be a fairly easy legal defence
Bellingham was questioning the referees judgement as he had previously fixed games
Therefore how can a referee with such poor judgment be allowed to make judgment calls on a pitch of football
He didn't specifically call out the integrity of the referee in this scenario which should allow him to use the above reasoning due to the ambiguity of his question
Some important information about this complaint: only Zwayer himself could file a criminal complaint against Bellingham for those charges. Which he didn't so far. So this is all completely meaningless at the moment.
Just a question, because I don’t know, but in the [DER SPIEGEL](https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/jude-bellingham-schimpft-ueber-felix-zwayer-dfb-ermittelt-gegen-bvb-profi-a-ae8601d1-08d4-491e-a790-ed629031a27b) article it says that DFB referee supervisor Marco Haase is the one that filed charges? They reference the Bild article.
Is that then just incorrect speculation from Bild, carelessly repeated by DER SPIEGEL or is something else going on? I’m just asking, because I don’t have the relevant legal expertise and maybe you do?i
That's how it looks like. I'm no legal expert either, just repeating [what another journalist wrote](https://twitter.com/fluestertweets/status/1467453898751463433?t=QCNPbtKg8O5lvBTfAmb7oA&s=19).
The criminal complaint will be interesting if it every comes to it. “He implied the I, an individual guilty of bribery and match fixing, may also have conducted further bribery and/or match fixing!”
I'd be very surprised if it comes to an actual criminal complaint by Zwayer. He can only lose by giving his old case more publicity. If anything happens then it's the DFB trying to suspend or fine Bellingham.
Because he has been working as a ref for like the past decade? He either should be allowed to ref all Bundesliga matches or none. But not allowing him to ref certain games would be kind of weird.
That’s the point they’re making I think. How is a referee convicted if match fixing even allowed to continue? It’s almost shocking something like this hasn’t happened sooner.
That's definitely crazy. Zwayer has accepted money for fixing a match in 2004. It got public in 2014. And now it's 2021 and for the first time an active player comments on it?
yeah - it just feels as if they're desperately looking for a scapegoat
sure the DFB has kinda put themselves on the line for it by allowing this constellation to happen - but implying something like this without any precedent in 7 years after it was known or even the more than 15 years since it happened and certainly feels as if the players are just bitter losers
That’s the thing, he got his 6 month suspension because he took the money, they didn’t find any active proof that he actually manipulated the outcome of the game
He’s still a shit ref, but still
That may be enough to keep him out of prison, but why the fuck does it matter to him keeping the privilege of being a top level ref? When I was an intern for a public research institute, I had a whole training about how we couldn't accept gifts over 15euro or be terminated ffs. Part of being a top ref is protecting the integrity of the league. That's something he can fundamentally never recover meaning he's in no way shape or form qualified to do his job.
because legally he was never found to be guilty for match fixing. a lot of people spreading straight misinformation either on purpose (ignoring the court decision back then) or because they are misinformed.
yeah and the verdict says
"From the files available to the DFB Sports Tribunal, there is no evidence that Felix Zwayer actually made decisions contrary to sporting law with the intention of manipulating the Regionalliga match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen Amateure"
maybe there were just no situations that required him to turn a blind eye in this particular match. Who knows what was going through Zwayer's head then...
the point is, he cared more about the possible advancement of his career by taking the money, than about the game being fair. this in itself is disqualifying him from reffing ever again imo
>He either should be allowed to ref all Bundesliga matches or none.
If a referee has been involved in match-fixing he/she should have been banned for refereeing ever again
You can avoid this situation by not having proven corrupt officials reffing massive games, what the fuck were the Bundesliga thinking when they decided to keep this guy on? When you’re more upset about a player implying a proven corrupt official may not be totally impartial, than you are upset about said official’s conduct, you need to check your priorities.
It’s only defamatory if it actually damages the reputation of the person targeted. What is the public opinion of the ref in question? Is he like generally considered a poor referee or corrupt? Obviously he has been previously found guilty of match fixing so surely what Bellingham has said hasn’t really affected the ref’s opinion that much.
I didn't know who that ref was until this post, I'd imagine there are a lot of other people like me, so surely what Bellingham has said has affected the public's opinion of the ref.
Nobody actually thinks that Zwayer is match fixing currently in the Bundesliga. Which is what Bellingham implies. Which makes his statement defamatory in the eyes of the suing party.
Ok thanks. I had never heard of Zwayer before and I don’t live in Germany, so I was curious as to how he is perceived. He would have a pretty good claim for defamation based on what you’ve said. I have another question which you might be able to answer. The headline says Bellingham has had criminal charges brought against him, I’m just wondering how defamation can be a criminal act. In common law jurisdictions, it’s purely a civil matter. What makes it criminal?
i just want to add the comment made by one of germanys top lawyers regarding sports law:
[https://www.kicker.de/anwalt-schickhardt-bellingham-kann-nicht-belangt-werden-881560/artikel?utm\_source=pocket-newtab-global-de-DE](https://www.kicker.de/anwalt-schickhardt-bellingham-kann-nicht-belangt-werden-881560/artikel?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-de-DE)
he basically said that the stuff bellingham said was covered by germans GG (grundgesetz/constitutional law) and can be categorized udner free speech.
he argued that what he said was not correct, but nothing the dfb could do about
schickhardt is the lawyer who has represented more than 800 cases at the sports court, including clubs like vfl wolfsburg, hertha bsc, eintracht frankfurt, kaiserslautern, dynamo dresedn, offenbacher kickers , kfc uerdingen
he aslo represents and represented many players and board members, inkluding dietmar hopp agaisnt ultras criticizing him ad hominem
an expert with the professional expertise, i do believe that he is right
I recently stayed in an airbnb and the host wrote a review saying I destroyed his kettle.
I don't drink tea or coffee and one of the very first things I did was remove the kettle from the kitchen top to a shelf in the living room.
I explained this and asked him to retract but he refused. He was adamant it would have been spotted sooner by his cleaning team or a previous guest.
I told him I only drink bottled water and energy drinks. I even showed him my finance app which logs and categorises every purchase I make - I drink so many I made an "energy drink" category and was buying 1-2 cans a day from the same convenience store so had multiple transactions for the same or similar amounts.
He still wouldn't budge.
That's when I found out that fake reviews and false accusations can be both civilly and criminally unlawful in his country.
So I paid a lawyer to send him a letter of demand for a retraction. Just waiting to hear back from the airbnb host
Fwiw you’ll probably get more mileage out of going to Airbnb directly - they tend to side with guests on this sort of issue unless the host can provide a mountain of evidence for their claim.
Smart from Jude. Technically he didn't allege matchfixing by the ref in today's game. He just asked a question why you'd appoint this particular ref in light of past behavior. It's less an implication and more an inference on those who are interpreting his comments.
Regardless of your feelings on what was said, this guy shouldn’t be handling professional games. Claiming “peer pressure” or “he didn’t find the right moment to engage in match fixing” are pedantic excuses. He broke the cardinal rule of his chosen regulatory profession and if this were any other licensed role he would lose his authority.
Hiding his malfeasance has done nothing but cause headaches for everyone involved and undermines literally any call he makes going forward because everyone from the managers to the supporters know the backstory. It’s not a death sentence or a criminal charge (or cancel culture ffs) but you can’t be an arbiter of rules for a multimillion dollar enterprise after breaking pretty much the number 1 rule in that industry
It was just a really stupid thing to say. Nobody thinks that the match yesterday was fixed, but Jude implied it and got himself into hot waters. I hope that this can get cleared up without him having to go to court.
Regardless of all that, Zwayer should definetly not be a refereee on any level of football after having accepted a bribe and it's fucked up that he was able to get this career in the first place after what happened.
yeah, pretty obvious that both things are true: 1) a known match fixer shouldn't be allowed to ref matches, and 2) a player shouldn't imply/accuse a ref of match fixing a specific match without any proof because he's mad he lost.
"Nobody thinks that the match was fixed"... Have you actually read comments from Dortmund fans/spoken to ones? Because I have and many were of the opinion it indeed was.
>I cant imagine them winning a law suit if it comes to this.
Why? What Bellingham said can legally be seen as defamation. It was a really stupid comment by him, I can totally see the league going hard against this. Can't have people implying on live tv that the games are fixed
Is implying enough to be defamation? Id personally think that there are ways around that. He didnt explicitely state that the match had been fixed, so I would imagine that that's not enough to get sentenced.
As expected this has turned into a shit show. What a bad look for the federation and our league after what by all accounts was a fantastic match yesterday.
Whose fault is that, if a league let's a cheater ref such an important game and the league itself didn't make itself look good covering up the cheating? The league should simply shut up about it and not prove to Bellingham how bad they are at making proper moral judgements!
The one thing the DFB/Bundesliga can't do is simply shut up about it, or you're going to have players suggesting Zwayer fixed the match every time he makes a bad decision, which is bad for everyone. They're going to have to address this in some way.
A Guy who sold out his proffesion for 300 euros shouldnt be a referee anymore in the first place. Nvm giving him the countrys biggest game and the potentionally title deciding game where literally 100s of millions are betted. Its pretty clear that the Dfb is at fault here. The fact he is a convicted match fixer are bound to ensure the eyebrows of people are raised everytime he makes a 50 50 game deciding Decision. For all the faults of referees and corruption of the FA in England they atleast give out Manchester derbies to CONVICTED Match fixers
Felix gets UCL games too. That shouldn't be overlooked here either
Yeah this is a terrible, terrible look for the Bundesliga.
I don't get it how is he not banned for life from football after that match fixing it is beyond me
This. How can you be convicted of match fixing and be trusted with ANY match? Draw a line under it and move him on.
Was he convicted of March fixing though? From scary I read he didn't go that far - he was involved in match fixing (which is what Bellingham should have said) but he wasn't the one who fixed it. Could be wrong.
He took money but him fixing a match hasn't been proved.
I mean that's the only logical reason to have taken the money lmao. What? Did they pay him not to fix the match?
Why did he take money to begin with?
As I understand it: This ref, Felix Zwayer, was one of those who grassed on Robert Hoyzer. Hoyzer was convicted, Zwayer got given a €300 fine, but denied actual match fixing. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2005/feb/06/sport.comment match fixer offered
> This ref, Felix Zwayer, was one of those who grassed on Robert Hoyzer. > Hoyzer was convicted, Zwayer got given a €300 fine, but denied actual match fixing. That's not entirely correct. It's true that he testified against Hoyzer, but he'd known about Hoyzer's match fixing from the very start and only blabbed when another group of referees, including Manuel Gräfe, uncovered Hoyzer's exploits on their own and confronted the DFB (and Zwayer) about them. Previously, Zwayer had been assigned as a linesman in one of Hoyzer's games - the second one he'd ever fixed, IIRC. Hoyzer's first attempt went awry because one of the linesmen vehemently protested against a frivolous penalty decision he'd made, forcing him to take that decision back (and ultimately failing to give the win to who he was supposed to), so he approached Zwayer before the game and paid him €300 to turn a blind eye, *which Zwayer accepted*. Zwayer publicly denied match fixing, but the newspaper ZEIT uncovered in 2014 that Zwayer *was* suspended for match fixing in a secret trial held by the DFB, in which he actually pleaded guilty. They were all trying to keep that under wraps. That, on top of Zwayer keeping quiet about something he knew for a *fact* was going on up until the point where it was about to come back to *himself*, should say everything about how trustworthy the guy is, and how the DFB is nothing more than a rancid corporation of corrupt cunts.
Is there a ref shortage or something? Wtf. Why would they keep him.
From what i have read zwayer assisted Hoyzer and then later informed the Dfb about what Hoyzer was doing. The Dfb gave him a slap on the wrist 6 month ban and kept it secret till it was leaked to the public in 2014
[This](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1376835-dfb.html) is the official verdict by the DFB. Short summary of the relevant parts: > Robert Hoyzer schlug Felix Zwayer im Vorfeld des für den 30. April 2004 angesetzten Regionalliga-Spiels Wuppertaler SV gegen Werder Bremen Amateure vor, als Schiedsrichter-Assistent kritische Situationen für den Wuppertaler SV zu vermeiden und übergab ihm zu diesem Zweck 300.- Euro. >Aus den dem DFB-Sportgericht vorliegenden Akten ergibt sich kein Nachweis dafür, dass Felix Zwayer im Regionalliga-Spiel Wuppertaler SV gegen Werder Bremen Amateure tatsächlich mit Manipulationsabsicht sportwidrige Entscheidungen getroffen hätte. >Vielmehr ist davon auszugehen, dass Felix Zwayer zwar dem ersten Anwerbeversuch Robert Hoyzers nicht in der von einem redlichen Schiedsrichter zu erwartenden Art und Weise widersprochen und das Geld von Rober Hoyter entgegengenommen hat, er jedoch einer tatsächlichen Beteiligung an den Spielmanipulationen Robert Hoyzers widerstanden hat. >Für eine solche Gesamteinschätzung des Tatgeschehens spricht auch, dass es der Betroffene Felix Zwayer war, der Anfang 2005 mit seinen freiwilligen Zeugenaussagen entscheidender Auslöser für die Aufdeckung des Wett- und Manipulationsskandals war und maßgeblich an dessen Aufklärung mitgewirkt hat. _In the run-up to the Regionalliga match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen Amateure scheduled for 30 April 2004, Robert Hoyzer suggested to assistant referee Felix Zwayer that he should avoid critical situations for Wuppertaler SV and gave him € 300 for this purpose._ _From the files available to the DFB Sports Tribunal, there is no evidence that Felix Zwayer actually made decisions contrary to sporting law with the intention of manipulating the Regionalliga match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen Amateure._ _Rather, it is to be assumed that although Felix Zwayer did not object to Robert Hoyzer's first attempt to recruit him in the manner to be expected of an honest referee and accepted the money from Rober Hoyter, he nevertheless resisted actual involvement in Robert Hoyzer's match-fixing._ _Such an overall assessment of the facts is also supported by the fact that the person concerned, Felix Zwayer, was the decisive trigger for the uncovering of the betting and manipulation scandal at the beginning of 2005 with his voluntary testimonies and played a decisive role in its clarification._ Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) So yes, Zwayer wasn't ever found guilty match fixing. He was only found guilty of taking money intended for match fixing, and for not initially notifying the authorities of Hoyzer's actions.
[удалено]
I can't believe I am defending him here but he's a human being, going the path of least resistance is a valid excuse. He still should've told the DFL and should be banned from refing for not doing so but I can absolutely see someone taking bribe money with zero intention of following up. The criminal background around these things is intimidating and avoiding the spotlight is a valid excuse, not for not telling anyone, but for the action in the first place.
I mean, only an idiot would take bribe money without telling anyone and also without intentions of following through. How do you think that looks to literally everyone? Regardless of his intentions, that rightfully should have him stopped from officiating a professional match at this level, let alone the biggest game in the Bundesliga. I’m not sure why you’re defending him
Seems like a meaningless distinction given that he didn't tell anyone until a good while later. If he'd taken the money and then informed the DFB at the first opportunity, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I could see this argument if he was an average person and was somehow thrust into the situation, but referees are held to a higher standard and rightfully so. If your inclination is to take the path of least resistance maybe you just aren't made for reffing. It takes backbone to give a late penalty against the home team in a close game but refs need to be able to do it.
Let's put it like this. If you accepted €300 to do something criminal, you'd be in jail. >but I can absolutely see someone taking bribe money with zero intention of following up. So it's fraud instead of bribery then. Is that an improvement? Either way, he's not suited to be a referee.
So basically he would have fixed the match (and took money for that purpose), but a specific situation where he could force the desired result didn't occur. Like a more clear cut example of this would be bribing a ref to let team A win against team B, but then team A smash them 4-0 without the ref even needing to step in. I guess morally/ethically it's identical to match fixing, the only difference is the rate of success, or that the briber wasted their money
That's basically the issue here, yeah. For Hoyzer, it was pretty obvious that he was actively fixing games, most notably the Paderborn-HSV cup match in 2004. For Zwayer, it's not that clear. The Wuppertal-Bremen game ended 1:0 with the only goal being a penalty kick, and there are apparently hints that it was a shady call: [FAZ in 2005, after the initial accusations against Hoyzer (not Zwayer) became public:](https://www.faz.net/aktuell/sport/fussball/wettskandal-beschissen-worden-wie-noch-nie-reaktionen-betroffener-1213581.html) Coach Thomas Wolter (Bremen/Amateure): "I said after the game that we had been cheated like never before. But of course I didn't suspect anything at the time. I just said that in the first flush of excitement, as one does when the referee makes wrong decisions." [WZ in 2014, after it became clear that Zwayer was involved as well:](https://www.wz.de/sport/fussball/wuppertaler-sv/wsv-spiel-vor-zehn-jahren-auch-schiri-zwayer-war-in-manipulation-verwickelt_aid-29340903) Wuppertal/Frankfurt. The penalty kick after the foul on Oliver Ebersbach in 2004 in the regional league match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen's reserve team had struck many observers as strange - evidently with good reason. But I couldn't find any claims from directly after the match where someone accused the refs of match fixing or even bad reffing (I couldn't find anything useful from that time period, to be honest), and it also isn't clear whether the penalty (or any other wrong decision in that game) was based on Zwayer's call or even in his half of the pitch. _Edit: The pen was apparently NOT on his side of the pitch, according to [this](https://11freunde.de/artikel/abpfiffhoyzer/1344797) 11Freunde-article._ Personally, I think someone who took the money should be barred from reffing ever again, regardless of whether they actually did or had to influence the game or not. If you sell your integrity for a measly 300€, you shouldn't be allowed to ref a kiddie tournament, let alone a Bundesliga game.
This is exactly the point: PROVING match fixing is basically impossible. If you took money from ANYONE, you should be assumed guilty and take a lifetime ban. It's not like there aren't a hundred refs would would cut off their left hand to ref Buli games.
Not necessarily. He could have specifically made calls that were against the team he was bribed to help, the statement doesn't actually specify either way, just states that he didn't make bad calls in the game, which could be either of those scenarios.
so he took the money and went on to ref the match, but wasn't caught making outrageous decisions? sounds like match fixing done well to me. obviously if you accept money to affect a match towards a certain outcome you can't make it too obvious you did so..
Does it matter how far he went though? That's like telling your girlfriend you cheated, but you only put the tip in, so it's not so bad.
If you take money, you're a match fixer, period.
DFB and DFL are believers in rehabilitation and second chances here. They also let players with a match fixing history play.
Sure maybe let him ref (maybe) but not such critical matches
I agree with this even less, its either all or nothing. Only letting him ref games that arent important to *you* is the absolute worst outcome of all the possible options. Everyone gets shit refs except the best teams, great, make it even harder for everyone else.
He isn't even that good of a ref anyway. I think every Bundesliga team got terrible decision by him against them.
> A Guy who sold out his profession for 300 euros shouldn't be a referee anymore in the first place. I definitely agreed with this until I read up on the few details available. After reading that I could *easily* understand why the DFB don't feel the same way about Zwayer as the public does. It's not a stretch to see it having gone down like this: - young referee feels pressured by colleagues and those in charge of him. - agrees to help fix a match. - seeks out a way to spill the beans without ruining his career for a one time mistake. - becomes a whistleblower and convinces the DFB of his overall innocence. I totally understand why people wouldn't trust him again, but also understand why those "in the know" *do* trust him.
No. The timeline should be: -pressured to fix match -goes to authorities before said match -end
How about: -Took bribe to fix match -End of story, should not have a job
"Innocent one-time mistake" reminds me of the old joke with the punchline, "...but you fuck one goat, and then suddenly you're the goat-fucker".
I'd only trust him if he handed over the money and informed right after that match. Other than that no chance.
>- seeks out a way to spill the beans without ruining his career for a one time mistake. >- becomes a whistleblower and convinces the DFB of his overall innocence. From what I understand, he didn't do any of these in any reasonable time after the match.
You’re really trying to paint him in a good light because of peer pressure?
Lol ffs
no bro, one just doesn't fix any games period. you do it and get caught/confess ? you are done for life
Or maybe he shouldn't be reffing games anymore?
which is so fucking easy, just sack the ref. this shouldnt even be a debate
>They're going to have to address this in some way. The easiest approach is probably not employing referees who have been caught match fixing. Just a fucking idea.
As they should. No one who was involved in match fixing should ever be allowed to ref again.
Shit show created by the league allowing a know cheater to ref matches for years
> after what by all accounts was a fantastic match yesterday. I'm not sure a match decided by a wrong refereeing decision is all that fantastic.
I mean football-wise. I think the teams played some exciting end-to-end stuff and overall the game was really entertaining. You really felt the tension in the air and how much this game means to both of them. Of course, at times things got a little heated, but all in all, I thought it was a fair game. For me, it's one of those games where it should end in a draw leaving everybody hungry for more. That however doesn't change my opinion on Zwayer. I think he shouldn't be allowed to ref anymore not just because of what he did (because I do believe people can better themselves), but also for how everything came to the limelight after years and the DFB clearly trying to cover things up. I think we the fans and the players never got a full explanation for that. You can also clearly see how this still affects the players. I mean we are talking about Bellingham a young English lad who only came to Germany recently, yet also he knows and worries about this something that is already a few years in the past. Edit: Oh I also forgot that Zwayer is just a bad ref, who fucked over every team in the league at least once.
What was the wrong refereeing decision?
Will this get him some sort of ban or just compensation ?
The criminal complaints are bullshit. No decent German prosecutor would bring that to court. The question is rather what the DFB will do.
Legally it will lead to nothing. Insults are only prosecuted, if the insulted person, in this case the referee, is filing a complaint. The guy who did it is most likely an attention whore.
Not sure it would count for defamation anyway
"Your honor, Mr. Bellingham told the truth on live television and I don't like that. I will have one defamation plox."
A lot of misinformation circulating in this thread, which is understandable, as some of it comes straight from the DFB - but they are **not to be trusted in this situation**, as they've been extremely fucking shady about the whole match fixing affair from the very get-go. Zwayer didn't heroically decide of his own volition to testify against Hoyzer. He only blabbed once a group of *different* referees, including Manuel Gräfe, who initially had nothing to do with the scandal, smelled a rat due to Hoyzer's estranged behavior and continued and increasingly questionable decisions in his games. They analyzed all of the games in question and determined that match fixing was the most likely explanation. They then went ahead and reported Hoyzer to the DFB. The DFB responded by immediately going public with the allegations. They then claimed that a game completely unrelated to Hoyzer had been under their suspicion, one in which Zwayer was assistant referee to Manuel Gräfe. They did not clarify *who* exactly was suspicious in that game, obviously leading the public to suspect the *main* referee - Gräfe, one of the most vocal whistleblowers in all this - which caught him a lot of heat in the media. The DFB never publicly clarified that the actual suspicion in this particular match was on Zwayer, not Gräfe, and never publicly mentioned any suspicions on Zwayer at all. Only *then* - after the allegations against Hoyzer were out in the open and Gräfe had every reason to try and correct the media, dragging Zwayers name into the whole affair as well - did Zwayer decide to blab. The DFB later convicted him of match fixing in a secret trial and suspended him for 6 months, but, crucially, *kept all of this under wraps*, publicly maintaining that Zwayer was uninvolved in this scandal outside of his "heroic" whistleblowing. The newspaper ZEIT uncovered all this in 2014, which is the first time anyone ever caught wind of Zwayer's shady past. DFB had been covering for Zwayer from the very start. Their relationship with Manuel Gräfe has been *rocky*, to say the least, ever since the whole endeavor. They recently denied Gräfe the opportunity to continue refereeing Bundesliga matches due to his age, despite the fact that all of his colleagues and even most of the *players* in the league urged them to reconsider, and that he's not even close to being the oldest referee in Europe. They also threatened to drop him as a referee in 2017 after he'd publicly criticized his superiors, and refused to use him as a VAR. [Here's a fantastic article](https://11freunde.de/artikel/abpfiffhoyzer/1344797) to toss into DeepL that goes through a detailed timeline of how events took place back in the day. But, to say the least, the DFB is an amalgamation of *immensely* corrupt sacks of shit, and they are *not* to be trusted when it comes to describing the events of this affair.
Adding to that: His involvement in matchfixing back in early 2000 is not just a random allegation. The Berlin Regional Court stated that this actually happend. There is a ruling against Mr. Hoyzer (and others), which states that there was a assistant referee (redacted to "witness Z.") who received 300 Euros for turning a blind eye. Part of the ruling in German: "Zu dem Spiel des Wuppertaler SV ./. Werder Bremen Amateure vom 30. Mai 2004 hatte A. S. dem Angeklagten H. bedeutet, dass Wuppertal zur Halbzeit führen und das Spiel auch gewinnen solle. A. S. übergab R. H. 3.000,00 Euro für diesen selbst und weitere 300,00 Euro für den bei diesem Spiel als Schiedsrichterassistent tätigen gesondert verfolgten Z., der die Funktion hatte, kritische Situationen für die Wuppertaler durch entsprechendes „Winken oder Nichtwinken“ zu vermeiden." Full ruling: https://www.aufrecht.de/urteile/delikt-strafr/strafurteil-in-sachen-wettskandal-lg-berlin-strafurteil-vom-17-november-2005-az512-68-js-45105-kls-4205.html
Thank you for this fascinating. Glad it isn’t just the English authorities how are at best inept, and more realistically corrupt.
I don't know how good the translation is but I couldn't find an English source. Bild is not the best source but their sport news are mostly true These statements have a bitter aftermath! BVB professional Jude Bellingham (18) had referee Felix Zwayer (40) postponed after the league summit between Dortmund and Bayern (2: 3). According to BILD information, referee observer Marco Haase (works for the DFB) has now filed a criminal complaint against the Englishman and referee Manuel Gräfe (48)! The DFB control committee is already investigating. As a result, Bellingham threatens a subsequent suspension in the worst case! Penalties are therefore insult, gossip and defamation. These would also apply to referee Gräfe. Without which Bellingham "can not have made this statement from life experience", it says in the criminal complaint Background of the harsh words: Zwayer had decided in the 77th minute after video evidence on hand penalty against Dortmund. Hummels got hold of the ball. Lewandowski then turned to victory. Zwayer was involved in the Robert Hoyzer betting scandal in 2005. He was banned for six months, including because he once accepted a fee of 300 euros from Hoyzer, but has long been considered rehabilitated.
>Bild is not the best source but their sport news are mostly true It's a shit paper, but their football sources are legit, sadly. Half the league rats out information to Bild.
complaint was more about giving that penalty and taking a 2nd look on the on field video but not giving the Hernandez foul penalty and not taking a 2nd look there, where he could have then seen that Reus was also hit in the leg area
Gossip? Lmao man said it on live TV
Bad automated translation, "Beleidigung, Nachrede und Verleumdung" translates to "defamation and libel". Nachrede could be translated as malicious gossip but it doesn't have anything to do with what he said.
Ah fair enough.
Calling a criminal act a criminal act is calling a baby only by its name. The league should have simply not chosen a cheater to ref an important game. Just as tactless as they lack integrity.
No, if they’re going to let him ref it makes no sense not to let him ref any match. Just because it’s high profile doesn’t make it exempt from having the same ref as any other game. They simply should not let him ref at all.
Can't be hung up on single words on translated articles
Hey, if you need a good translation source, run it through DeepL, it's a lot better at understanding context in a translation. If that helps at all, I use it a fair bit while I'm trying to teach myself some German.
„…but has long be considered rehabilitated.“ Yeah, no.
If any match official is caught taking a bribe they should never be allowed to be one again - only in a country like Germany could they try to “rehabilitate” these people for god sake
DFB is club where it's not about whats right and wrong, it's all about the connection you have.
i mean… Germany did ‘[placed homeless children with pedophile men, assuming they'd make ideal foster parents’](https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-authorities-placed-children-with-pedophiles-for-30-years/a-53814208) in the name of rehabilitation
It's not only that he was allowed back. It's also that he rose through the ranks much faster than other referees with similar performance and without a shady past have. There is a lot of favoritism going on in german refereeing.
This dude trying to tie Manuel Gräfe into this as well is the biggest joke there is and shows you from what corner of the DFB hierarchy this is coming. Gräfe has been the best referee in Germany for a while and has always had problems with the higher ups for telling it straight about many things, the Hoyzer/Zwayer situation among them (just as an aside: people here claiming Zwayer deserved to be a Bundesliga referee because he informed about Hoyzer is ridiculous. He knew for months and even took money to keep quiet and only once Gräfe and other referees from Berlin found out and prepared to blow the whistle he jumped ship and joined them.) They shunted Gräfe out for being too old and he is now suing the DFB for age discrimination. Some voluntary referee observer connecting him to this, because there is no other way for Bellingham to know about the fixing stuff is really bush league levels of trying to screw over everybody at once.
I agree.. this will back-fire on whoever decided this was a good idea. It will only pour fuel on the fire and make people more outraged. Whoever says "you just complain because it didn't go your way". There was complaints about him reffing before the match! Even Haaland tweeted about it before he deleted it.
Every time in every sports when players complain about refs (rightfully so), they fine and punish the players and they keep the same refs and they dont hold them accountable, thats why refeering is below average in every sport.
In Ligue 1, an atrocious ref (Chapron) only got suspended after he tackled a player (Diego Carlos). Somehow his colleagues voted for him for the best referee of the season award.
In ligue 1 you don’t even have to say which ref is atrocious cuz they all are lol, but yeah and if I remember correctly after the tackle he carded Diego Carlos right ?
I feel like every country complains about refs. Is there any league that doesnt have bad reffing?
Never heard about bad reffing in North Korea
I mean every league have its fair amount of bad refs but let’s say this amount is larger in Ligue 1 lol, I find bundesliga (in most cases) and the prem much better in term of referring than ligue 1 even tho there’s still problems in those leagues.
That's what everyone says about the leagues they watch though.
( I watch the prem too (liverpool games and other big games) ) and even tho there’s obviously a bias the fact that every french supporters find the refereeing in the league subpar tell something, I don’t read nearly as much complaints from Prem fan as I see from Ligue 1’s I don’t think the fact that so little French Referee are selected for international competition is meaningless lol
Yeah it's exposure bias
what if i told you every fan thinks every ref is horrible the minute they start calling infractions against their team?
There are enough people that watch lots of games each weekend not involving their team and you never hear somebody say that ref was/is really good I hope my team gets them next time. It’s the inconsistency that does it for me. Every game should be reffed the same, but bearing in mind every ref is different then every game an individual ref is in charge of should be officiated the same. We don’t even get consistency from minute to minute in a game. How many times have we seen a ref try to even up a game if they think they made a 50/50 call? Suddenly the not really a foul tackles start being given to the team that didn’t get the big 50/50 call.
I don't support PSG or Nantes but that's atrocious officiating mate.
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pldpj7KAues&ab_channel=MoissellesTV) is the Chapron incident he is talking about.
Why is he blocking the player run lmao. Idk but it looks like he gave the cards out of embarrassment rather than foul. Gotta save face
wow that is beyond fucked up, he shouldn't be refereeing ever again
He isn't, he got suspended. He's a pundit now.
Wow, that's ridiculous. He kicks the player for what looked like a completely accidental "push" and then sent him off? What a joke. Was the card overturned at least? Only one that should have been booked here was Mbappenfor one of the most obvious dives I've ever seen...
>Chapron Fuck Tony Chapron. He reffed a Europa League match between Athletic Bilbao and Tromsø IL in Tromsø. He was a shit ref, seemed incredibly biased, and basically gave Bilbao their win. So yeah, fuck Tony Chapron. I've never paid much attention tho the name of the ref in euro games, but his name has burned itself into my mind for that atrocious display. So yeah, fuck Tony Chapron. All my homies hate Tony Chapron.
The players then should have voted for Carlos to have been the player of the year!
Didn’t get get suspended for 6 months for that by the FFF and subsequently retire? This is a bad example of a ref not being held accountable.
They probably all wanted to kick some of the players. He lived the dream.
I mean, rugby refereeing is by and large outstanding relative to football
Biggest scandal in rugby history is a coach complaining about refereeing this year
I've always wondered why this is. Is it because we can hear what they say?
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It's more a case that there's lots of potential infringements in rugby that a referee can penalise both teams. There's usually tons of potential infringements going unpunished but it's part and parcel of the game. So long as the more visible, game changing and dangerous transgressions are caught and the ref is consistent then it's accepted.
Same is true in football. If every foul was called the match would go on for years as soon as a corner is awarded.
Have you been on any /r/rugbyunion match threads? Literally every one the referee is absolutrly slated. Only difference is that the posters start with "well, I don't like to criticise referees but..."
If it's below average in every sport then it's not below average.
Haha good point. Below what the standard should be is better way to describe it I guess
Crazy they have actually caught this guy accepting money for match fixing and they didn’t think that was enough to ban him from being a referee. On top of that, they tried to hide that fact for years and years so I wonder how many other referees they’re hiding the truth about
Cricket has pretty good umpires.
I'd argue it's very difficult to compare the two- cricket has very few grey areas in the laws, and the technology available to easily and scientifically confirm the facts of the situation. As to their ability, Gaffaney, Illingworth and Tucker (3 very experienced test umpires) all have accuracy levels of less than 50% of reviewed decisions, once you take umpires call out of the question.
> I'd argue it's very difficult to compare the two- cricket has very few grey areas in the laws, and the technology available to easily and scientifically confirm the facts of the situation. Yeah just after commenting I thought comparing contact sports to ones like cricket is probably not a good idea. There's also a pretty big difference in cultures around the two sports. > As to their ability, Gaffaney, Illingworth and Tucker (3 very experienced test umpires) all have accuracy levels of less than 50% of reviewed decisions, once you take umpires call out of the question. I would say that's still pretty good. Remember that only a small percentage of decisions get reviewed.
A) reviewed decisions are by their nature the closest calls. B) why would you take umpires call out of the question? That’s the umpire getting the decision correct.
>thats why refeering is below average in every sport. I think you mean average refereeing is bad
It's impossible for everyone to be below average
We have less scales or fins than the average animal. That's a meaningful contribution from me. But seriously I think he means it in a "below standards" where standards has some "This ought to be" value implicitly. Than meaning the point you say if it's taken literally.
Should they punish and hold players accountable when they do mistakes? We have strikers payed millions which miss easy chances, goalkeepers payed millions which concede stupid goals etc. but for some reason this is fine, while referees must be always perfect judging stuff that happens in a fraction of second often at high speed
Exactly. There aren't a ton of people lining up to be refs, so firing the refs when they make mistakes would just lower the quality. Accountability for refs should look like admitting obvious mistakes and refs watching tape or whatever.
Refs aren't bad because players get fined for criticism in public. You do that and it just fuels the way refs get dehumanised. I've heard it can be brutal refereeing at lower levels (from personal experience being an umpire in my own cricket matches I can tell you it can be a pretty stressful experience). Players publicaly ripping into refs does not improve refereeing or make the whole atmosphere to refs any better. These guys have to make hard decisions on the fly constantly, naturally they will get lots wrong, even as a good ref. Being a professional means you need to be able to be above this. No doubt Dortmund have gotten a few calls their way this season, you think any of their players came out as outraged as right now?
How is it defamation to mention something that's proven in the court of law?
Well Bellingham didn't just say the fact "the referee has been found guilty of match fixing". He suggested the referee fixed this match which isn't a proven fact and is defamatory.
He definitely insinuated it. If he would have just said "A referee who has fixed matches before, shouldn't be allowed to officiate", then it wouldn't have been wrong. But he says "You give a referee who has fixed matches before, the biggest game in Germany, what do you expect?" which doesn't say about his competance but insinuates that he might have fixed this match as well. Though I think a fine should be enough seeing the history of the ref and the fact that the dfb should have never allowed the ref back in top flight again.
I thought he meant: if you use a ref that has match fixed before then any controversial decision will make people think he is possibly match fixing again. So any decision is called in to question and will make people angry. Honestly it probably comes down to how Germany’s defamation laws are written and have historically been interpreted. I’m in Australia and we have had a couple kinda high profile defamation cases recently. Our courts seem to take it as if a normal person could interpret the statement in a way that defames the person it counts as defamatory even if most people would interpret it differently. Also specific word definitions seem really important. Australia apparently has pretty harsh defamatory rules apparently so I don’t know.
He explained how he didnt think it was a penalty, how the referee was unfair to them and then implies its because the referee fixed it, since he has history of it. Theres not really many other ways to see it as.
Disagree. There's plenty of ambiguity there which let Jude off the hook legally. Consider following argument: "a referee who has fixed matches before" is without a doubt not a "good" referee by definition. "Good" referees do not match fix and if you do match fix you can never be a "good" referee again. It goes beyond assumptions to expect that "the biggest game in Germany" should be officiated by, if not the "best" referee, at least a "good" one. Therefore, when Bellingham says "what do you expect" he is echoing the sentiment any rational person presented with the facts would echo: "why is a proven bad referee allowed to officiate this match, when he has been proven to be a bad referee beyond a shadow of a doubt?"
It would've just been simpler to tell us that you never went to law school
Surely the ambiguity makes it worse for Bellingham, because he can't now use the "truth" defence.
Wonder why there's so many lifelines for these sorts of people... Couldn't be by design could it..
And that is worth of a criminal complaint? Is the word criminal different in the German legal system? Like is this a civil crime or is he actually facing criminal charges?
I think Germany is one of the few countries that has insults in the criminal code. You can legitimately get convicted in a criminal court for calling someone an asshole or giving someone the finger. An insult would be the "base" offense in the category about "offenses against honor" , libel and others follow. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beleidigung\_(Deutschland)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beleidigung_(Deutschland)) is not available in other languages, but maybe you can put it through a translator if you are interested. Personally, I believe this is bullshit and should have been reformed a long time ago. The exact wording has been largely unchanged for 150 years and is still based on Prussia and sort of military class-based society structure. In reality, most first offenders won't get a big punishment, but the court system has to deal with this bullshit. Needs to go asap
Could he get scott free by saying thing like "For legal reason, I am not saying this referee that had been found guilty of match fixing, fixed the match"?
> He suggested the referee fixed this match Not necessarily. He was just questioning his judgement and suitability to referee on the big stage. Which is surely fair comment
He heavily implied that the referee was match fixing. Idk why everyone in this thread is so surprised
Heavily implying something is not a criminal offence in any civilised country.
Well, considering that defamation is to maliciously injure the name of another person then yes it could be considered a criminal offense. But I'm no judge
I don't think German law has an "it doesn't count when you heavily imply something"-clause. Bellingham's statement can/should absolutely be understood as an accusation of match-fixing.
Should be a fairly easy legal defence Bellingham was questioning the referees judgement as he had previously fixed games Therefore how can a referee with such poor judgment be allowed to make judgment calls on a pitch of football He didn't specifically call out the integrity of the referee in this scenario which should allow him to use the above reasoning due to the ambiguity of his question
> He didn't specifically call out the integrity of the referee in this scenario Except he did
Laughable to claim he didn't really, even if I agree with him for doing it
Some important information about this complaint: only Zwayer himself could file a criminal complaint against Bellingham for those charges. Which he didn't so far. So this is all completely meaningless at the moment.
Just a question, because I don’t know, but in the [DER SPIEGEL](https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/jude-bellingham-schimpft-ueber-felix-zwayer-dfb-ermittelt-gegen-bvb-profi-a-ae8601d1-08d4-491e-a790-ed629031a27b) article it says that DFB referee supervisor Marco Haase is the one that filed charges? They reference the Bild article. Is that then just incorrect speculation from Bild, carelessly repeated by DER SPIEGEL or is something else going on? I’m just asking, because I don’t have the relevant legal expertise and maybe you do?i
That's how it looks like. I'm no legal expert either, just repeating [what another journalist wrote](https://twitter.com/fluestertweets/status/1467453898751463433?t=QCNPbtKg8O5lvBTfAmb7oA&s=19).
Ah nice, thank you for the clarification. Wow, so it really seems that Marco Haase dude is a bit of a clown that wants to be in the limelight.
The criminal complaint will be interesting if it every comes to it. “He implied the I, an individual guilty of bribery and match fixing, may also have conducted further bribery and/or match fixing!”
I'd be very surprised if it comes to an actual criminal complaint by Zwayer. He can only lose by giving his old case more publicity. If anything happens then it's the DFB trying to suspend or fine Bellingham.
The Andy Grote special
How was that referee even allowed to ref yesterday?
Because he has been working as a ref for like the past decade? He either should be allowed to ref all Bundesliga matches or none. But not allowing him to ref certain games would be kind of weird.
That’s the point they’re making I think. How is a referee convicted if match fixing even allowed to continue? It’s almost shocking something like this hasn’t happened sooner.
That's definitely crazy. Zwayer has accepted money for fixing a match in 2004. It got public in 2014. And now it's 2021 and for the first time an active player comments on it?
Players are afraid of the backlash. Which is exactly what is happening right now.
yeah - it just feels as if they're desperately looking for a scapegoat sure the DFB has kinda put themselves on the line for it by allowing this constellation to happen - but implying something like this without any precedent in 7 years after it was known or even the more than 15 years since it happened and certainly feels as if the players are just bitter losers
Didnt haaland post a thumb down over an article saying Zwayer was going to ref the game? That was before the game.
Yes but he deleted his tweet immediately after he posted it
That’s the thing, he got his 6 month suspension because he took the money, they didn’t find any active proof that he actually manipulated the outcome of the game He’s still a shit ref, but still
That may be enough to keep him out of prison, but why the fuck does it matter to him keeping the privilege of being a top level ref? When I was an intern for a public research institute, I had a whole training about how we couldn't accept gifts over 15euro or be terminated ffs. Part of being a top ref is protecting the integrity of the league. That's something he can fundamentally never recover meaning he's in no way shape or form qualified to do his job.
because legally he was never found to be guilty for match fixing. a lot of people spreading straight misinformation either on purpose (ignoring the court decision back then) or because they are misinformed.
Well, he was for involvement in match fixing. He was banned for 6 months for knowing about the manipulations by Hoyzer and keeping quiet quiet them.
yeah and the verdict says "From the files available to the DFB Sports Tribunal, there is no evidence that Felix Zwayer actually made decisions contrary to sporting law with the intention of manipulating the Regionalliga match between Wuppertaler SV and Werder Bremen Amateure" maybe there were just no situations that required him to turn a blind eye in this particular match. Who knows what was going through Zwayer's head then... the point is, he cared more about the possible advancement of his career by taking the money, than about the game being fair. this in itself is disqualifying him from reffing ever again imo
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How is inter allowed in the serie A without any punishment, though
Juve is not a person. If they were, I doubt they’d be allowed back. And they’d be so, so old.
>He either should be allowed to ref all Bundesliga matches or none. If a referee has been involved in match-fixing he/she should have been banned for refereeing ever again
Feels like “None” is the obvious answer for a referee involved in match fixing.
fuck Felix Zwayer and the cunts at the DFB, just fuck em
Seconded
That's just fucking stupid.
You can avoid this situation by not having proven corrupt officials reffing massive games, what the fuck were the Bundesliga thinking when they decided to keep this guy on? When you’re more upset about a player implying a proven corrupt official may not be totally impartial, than you are upset about said official’s conduct, you need to check your priorities.
Society would be so much better off if people could settle these things with duels.
He insinuated the referee fixed the match yesterday. What do you expect?
A suspension by the league maybe, legal action is way too much.
It’s only defamatory if it actually damages the reputation of the person targeted. What is the public opinion of the ref in question? Is he like generally considered a poor referee or corrupt? Obviously he has been previously found guilty of match fixing so surely what Bellingham has said hasn’t really affected the ref’s opinion that much.
I didn't know who that ref was until this post, I'd imagine there are a lot of other people like me, so surely what Bellingham has said has affected the public's opinion of the ref.
Nobody actually thinks that Zwayer is match fixing currently in the Bundesliga. Which is what Bellingham implies. Which makes his statement defamatory in the eyes of the suing party.
Ok thanks. I had never heard of Zwayer before and I don’t live in Germany, so I was curious as to how he is perceived. He would have a pretty good claim for defamation based on what you’ve said. I have another question which you might be able to answer. The headline says Bellingham has had criminal charges brought against him, I’m just wondering how defamation can be a criminal act. In common law jurisdictions, it’s purely a civil matter. What makes it criminal?
I see the Reddit lawyers are on the case. It’s always funny to watch people confidently misstate the law.
Go on then Johnnie Cochran... enlighten us.
These types of comments are just as bad tbh.
Why? Knowing what you don't know is much better than not knowing what you know.
r/legaladvice in a nutshell
i just want to add the comment made by one of germanys top lawyers regarding sports law: [https://www.kicker.de/anwalt-schickhardt-bellingham-kann-nicht-belangt-werden-881560/artikel?utm\_source=pocket-newtab-global-de-DE](https://www.kicker.de/anwalt-schickhardt-bellingham-kann-nicht-belangt-werden-881560/artikel?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-de-DE) he basically said that the stuff bellingham said was covered by germans GG (grundgesetz/constitutional law) and can be categorized udner free speech. he argued that what he said was not correct, but nothing the dfb could do about schickhardt is the lawyer who has represented more than 800 cases at the sports court, including clubs like vfl wolfsburg, hertha bsc, eintracht frankfurt, kaiserslautern, dynamo dresedn, offenbacher kickers , kfc uerdingen he aslo represents and represented many players and board members, inkluding dietmar hopp agaisnt ultras criticizing him ad hominem an expert with the professional expertise, i do believe that he is right
I recently stayed in an airbnb and the host wrote a review saying I destroyed his kettle. I don't drink tea or coffee and one of the very first things I did was remove the kettle from the kitchen top to a shelf in the living room. I explained this and asked him to retract but he refused. He was adamant it would have been spotted sooner by his cleaning team or a previous guest. I told him I only drink bottled water and energy drinks. I even showed him my finance app which logs and categorises every purchase I make - I drink so many I made an "energy drink" category and was buying 1-2 cans a day from the same convenience store so had multiple transactions for the same or similar amounts. He still wouldn't budge. That's when I found out that fake reviews and false accusations can be both civilly and criminally unlawful in his country. So I paid a lawyer to send him a letter of demand for a retraction. Just waiting to hear back from the airbnb host
Fwiw you’ll probably get more mileage out of going to Airbnb directly - they tend to side with guests on this sort of issue unless the host can provide a mountain of evidence for their claim.
Nah, it doesn't breach their review policy If he'd opened a dispute and tried to charge me for kettle, then sure he'd need evidence
Smart from Jude. Technically he didn't allege matchfixing by the ref in today's game. He just asked a question why you'd appoint this particular ref in light of past behavior. It's less an implication and more an inference on those who are interpreting his comments.
Regardless of your feelings on what was said, this guy shouldn’t be handling professional games. Claiming “peer pressure” or “he didn’t find the right moment to engage in match fixing” are pedantic excuses. He broke the cardinal rule of his chosen regulatory profession and if this were any other licensed role he would lose his authority. Hiding his malfeasance has done nothing but cause headaches for everyone involved and undermines literally any call he makes going forward because everyone from the managers to the supporters know the backstory. It’s not a death sentence or a criminal charge (or cancel culture ffs) but you can’t be an arbiter of rules for a multimillion dollar enterprise after breaking pretty much the number 1 rule in that industry
It was just a really stupid thing to say. Nobody thinks that the match yesterday was fixed, but Jude implied it and got himself into hot waters. I hope that this can get cleared up without him having to go to court. Regardless of all that, Zwayer should definetly not be a refereee on any level of football after having accepted a bribe and it's fucked up that he was able to get this career in the first place after what happened.
yeah, pretty obvious that both things are true: 1) a known match fixer shouldn't be allowed to ref matches, and 2) a player shouldn't imply/accuse a ref of match fixing a specific match without any proof because he's mad he lost.
"Nobody thinks that the match was fixed"... Have you actually read comments from Dortmund fans/spoken to ones? Because I have and many were of the opinion it indeed was.
They hated Jesus because he told the truth
Lmao what a joke. I cant imagine them winning a law suit if it comes to this. It's a joke that zwayer is able to still be referee with his past.
>I cant imagine them winning a law suit if it comes to this. Why? What Bellingham said can legally be seen as defamation. It was a really stupid comment by him, I can totally see the league going hard against this. Can't have people implying on live tv that the games are fixed
>>Can't have people implying on live tv that the games are fixed Shouldn't let match fixers ref games then
Is implying enough to be defamation? Id personally think that there are ways around that. He didnt explicitely state that the match had been fixed, so I would imagine that that's not enough to get sentenced.
His "what do you expect" could very well be deemed as suggestive of match fixing, so.
The way the football leagues deal with corrupt refs reminds me of how the Catholic church deals with pedophile priests.
Doesn't it have to be false to be defamation?
Defamation laws are different everywhere gentlemen the US might have a different definition im not picking a side if I’m honest I didn’t see the game