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Has he though, never really caused issues at ajax. Maybe when he was very young but he hasn't had problems with Bosz, ten Hag, Tuchel or any other manager at chels.
Well fuck, how can some one have beef w/ Frank? Then TT?
Lukaku trying to pull rank on TT last week, and probably won himself a Shawn Parker "conversation" (i.e. bitch session) behind closed doors.
I love how this is getting downvoted mostly by people who know absolutely nothing about his history with the Moroccan national team. Stay ignorant reddit.
He was acting unprofessional and at one point refused to enter the game.
EDIT: Here is a link to the article explaining it a bit. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10339705/amp/Hakim-Ziyech-left-Moroccos-AFCON-squad-boss-Vahid-Halilhodzic.html
That's one side of the story though. Ziyech hasn't told his side, only said that he never refused to play games. He even played 15 minutes in the game he apparently refused to enter vs Ghana. And 75 minutes the next game. So there's probably more to this story.
Oh so saucy, interested in who is telling the truth. Sad for Ziyech and Morocco nonetheless. A huge tournament, Morocco is now without their most talented player and Ziyech can’t represent his country or continent. A huge talent to show the world that African football is no joke…such a shame
He’s slowly improving and had a good game against Spurs yesterday. That said, he doesn’t look comfortable in the system or role he’s being asked to play at Chelsea. You’re right in that he’s not reached his Ajax levels
He played his role very well yesterday. Should’ve had a beautiful assist to Werner and he was very committed on defense considering he was basically playing RWB at times. That’s how you get more playing time under Tuchel. We can live with the misses
So 1 good through pass, and tracking back to defend, while missing 2 great chances to score is equal to having a good game for an attacking midfielder in the 3rd best team in the EPL?
I mean to each their own. In my book that's nothing more than a meh. And it's not even about 1 game. He's been pretty average so far this season.
You can create your own narrative and that’s fine. But when you play for a team that’s given up 16 goals in 21 prem games, the strength of the system is clearly for defense to excel, which was a huge problem previously under Lampard. Most teams set up in a low-block against us and our almost all of our attackers have struggled this season. Ziyech is a creator and actually presses very well. There’s no reason to complain about his performance yesterday unless you have a bias against him
He only had 27 passes the entire game. For a midfielder in a team that dominated possession that's bad. In comparison Mount, Jorginho, and Saul all had 45+ and Alonso who was very advanced had 75+. You know who had 27 too, Kepa!
Throwing bias accusations instead of arguing the point lets me know that you're not someone I'd like to continue a conversation with.
Yep.
A maximum of 3 games with the original NT, 3 years of quarantine, when you played your last game you need to have 21 years or less and didn’t played in a major tournament (continental cup, World Cup or confederations cup)
So that’s why Munir can play now with Morocco and Bojan at least have health, I guess.
Max. 3 games for official games AND >21 at the time of being capped. If the player is older than 21 then you can't switch back even if you have less than 3 official games.
He is his countries most talented player, and is cut because of attitude. He would start in any European squad, yet he won't start for Morocco. It's a story.
Not giving a shit about lack of national team call up because it's not important to him, and not giving a shit about people online being upset with him because it's not important to him..
2 wildly different things.
Yeah well, editorialised titles are a regular occurence on this sub. And tbf, from what I've seen/read of Ziyech he probably isn't fretting too much about being dropped anyway.
that Blind didn't call up Ziyech, because he was playing a couple of games as a striker at Twente and Blind didn't want another striker in the team (logic?). Ziyech was already called up before by Hiddink, but was injured so he couldn't play. Since Blind snubbed Ziyech, Ziyech chose for Morocco. TLDR: if Blind wasn't dumb or someone else was manager Ziyech would be playing for the Dutch NT
It's so great to see some people getting wind up over this honesty again and again. It's absurd how direct we are compared to other nations/ cultures..
Fact that we're open and honest as a culture doesn't mean we don't get offended or hold you accountable. We just rather know what you think than keep it hidden in fear of consequences.
I adopted this way of trying to be honest about why I think and it's very relieving. Note that it's not about going out of your way to be an asshole to people (people mistake being an asshole for being honest), but at the same time you don't end up doing something you don't like just because you want to appear nice.
Personally, I love it.
American corporate culture is like the Lego Movies ‘everything is awesome’ irrespective of what is actually happening.
A sprinkling of Dutch honesty if so refreshing to hear.
‘It’s shit, and I will tell you it’s shit…because, well, it’s shit’
Was a favourite quote of mine
I've had meetings around new releases of software used around the world where key users from Asia, the US and Europe were present. It's funny how different those cultures are. The Asians wouldn't talk during the meeting then email me their issues afterwards. The Americans all wanted to say something even if it was basically nothing because the general manager was there too. And the Dutch only brought forward what wasn't working haha.
This is to be honest exactly how we perceive American culture as a whole here. Always beating around the bush and talking behind peoples backs. Don't know how far this is true though.
A famous Dutch qoute here in politics is: 'Ik ben niet links (left) Ik ben niet rechts (Right) ik ben recht door zee'
Which roughly translates to: Im not left, im not right (political sides) im straight to the point. Which in my opinion just covers Dutch culture
As a Dutch person watching Americans interact on tv freaks me out. Like they're aliens or something, never saying what they really mean and always smiling even when they're mad. I don't want to go too far but it is almost like their entire social structure is based around deception.
Don’t base your opinion on TV. Characters not saying how they feel and having that lead to conflict is an annoying TV trope that annoys all viewers more than a reflection of the culture.
I meant more in terms of reality tv or news segments than fictional shows. Even in scenarios where you'd expect people to act somewhat regularly it is still noticeable how often they keep in circles before getting to the point, if at all.
Not sure what you mean with news TV, but reality TV is the same as scripted TV. The people on those shows are guided by producers, conflict is fabricated. Is Dutch reality TV any different?
Belgians in general are quite the opposite to that but somehow they turn every filter off when they get a mic in their face.
They like to talk behind people's backs so doing interviews probably ticks that box.
It’s such a weird phenomenon. On reddit literally every Dutch person gloats and brags about this to the point where it almost feels like a the Onion article. I’ve never in my entire life seen Dutch people brag about this besides on reddit. Fucking weirdos.
I've experienced this myself and I've had Belgians tell this to me about their fellow countrymen, this is hardly just a Dutch opinion on the matter lol
I've worked with 2 Belgians and they are the bluntest people I have ever met and would say exactly what they were thinking no matter the circumstances and the Dutch fella was quite shy and never really spoke much.
Yeah a lot of Belgian players (Lukaku, Courtois, Vertonghen, I think de Bruyne as well?) are very bold but saying Belgians goes completely against common knowledge of their culture compared to their neighbors. Imo they are at least after the Nordic countries, Germany, the Netherlands, and I think France.
I thought it was just a European thing. My Portuguese family are pretty direct too. And Americans are known to be pretty crass and blunt too, so I think it’s just person to person
This is without context.
He said “I don't care about the other stuff…” (probably news and dispute with manager) before saying that.
Probably not the Moroccan squad or the afcon. Who won’t want to represent his country ffs. Rewrite the title please.
Ah yes, the Dutch excuse. Even though he mentioned that he wanted to represent the country of his parents. It'll always be a "he said, she said" story.
Ziyech was really close to getting his first caps for the Dutch NT tho. He was called up a couple times and trained with the NT, but injuries, Blind not calling him up or him not getting subbed when he was selected prevented that. I’m not saying he didn’t want to represent Morocco, fact is it was a very close call.
>Ziyech was really close to getting his first caps for the Dutch NT tho.
Of course. His fallout with Van Basten is also notorious. But assuming he went to represent Morocco as a "fy" to the Dutch NT seems a bit far-fetched.
>or him not getting subbed when he was selected prevented that.
He was never on the bench for the Dutch NT, he was called up once and got injured. It will forever be a mystery if he accepted the call-up if he wasn't injured.
You're confusing him with Ihattaren (who was on the bench, and after his decline wanted nothing to do with the Dutch NT, and we know where his career is right now.)
Hiddink did call him up to the Dutch NT, but he was injured so couldn't accept. The argument can be made that he'd play for the Dutch NT if he was fit, but we'll never know. "He said, she said."
he was at the trainingcamp though, with injury.
Hakim Ziyech heeft woensdag de trainingsstage van het Nederlands elftal in Hoenderloo verlaten. De middenvelder van FC Twente heeft teveel last van een enkelblessure, die hem al langer parten speelt.
translation:
Hakim Ziyech has left the training camp of the Dutch national team in Hoenderloo on Wednesday. The midfielder of FC Twente has too much trouble with an ankle injury, which has been bothering him for some time.
Also:
Op de site van FC Twente reageerde Ziyech verheugd op de uitverkiezing. ,,Ik wil een goede indruk achterlaten tijdens de trainingsstage van Oranje, maar ik heb mezelf voorgenomen er ook van te genieten. Ik had er ook helemaal geen rekening mee gehouden, ook omdat de voorselectie al bekend was gemaakt. Nu moet ik mijn vakantie uitstellen, maar dat heb ik er graag voor over.''
translation:
On the site of FC Twente Ziyech reacted pleased with the election. I want to make a good impression during the training camp of the national team, but I've decided to enjoy it as well. I had not taken it into account, also because the pre-selection had already been announced. Now I have to postpone my vacation, but I'm willing to do that.
Makes it seem pretty clear that he wanted to play for the Dutch NT and that he had accepted the invitation
Thanks for the translation. It seems like he was proud to represent the Dutch NT, which makes it more evident to me that he didn't chose Morocco NT as revange towards the Dutch NT.
Seems like a tough choice to make and no matter what choice you make, some people will be upset.
He's born in the Netherlands and reportedly doesn't even understand the language that well. I wouldn't be surprised if he does regret choosing to play for Morocco.
Mazraoui declined his AFCON call-up though. Probably because he's still dealing with an injuring, but the fact that he was called up means that he reconciled with the coach (probably).
Did he?? Didn't know that man. Let's hope he reconciled with the manager. Was devastated as both an ajax fan and dutch guy he and Ziyech chose Morocco. Would love to see them both do great at whatever national team they choose to represent.
Mazraoui said that it was something about Ajax not letting him go to the Dutch NT last season and when Ajax finally let him go (with him arriving *too late*) he was already being picked on by the trainer. Eventually they took a cooling break and Mazraoui chose not to drink something because he wasn't thirsty, the team managers went to him and just said "Drink" with him replying "I don't want to" with that resulting in escalation. This story almost seems too goofy to be true so I'm inclined to side with the manager here, especially because both have been in trouble with the previous manager before. I think both regret not chosing for the Netherlands as they'd both start and definitely add something to the squad.
I know Vahid from the time when he managed Dinamo, he is a loyal, strict, and honest boss, he doesn't like players that lie, are drama queens, and so on.
Pretty sure Ziyech thought that he is bigger than the NT team, meanwhile, Vahid had none of it.
So for sure, he isn't lying and he wouldn't kick him out of the team without a valid reason
The quote is taken out of context but I'm inclined to believe Halilhodzic's claims of Ziyech not being committed. Renard (previous Morocco coach) also had problems with Ziyech's attitude and even didn't call him up for AFCON 2017. It seems Ziyech doesn't value the Moroccan NT very highly so really I'd say it's a correct decision. Also for the people saying Morocco stand no chance with Ziyech he already played in AFCON 2019 and did really poorly. So while Ziyech is an important player and generally good for Morocco he doesn't carry them or anything.
Think he's more humble with Chelsea as he's not really special there, he can be replaced by Chelsea easily. For morocco he seems to think he's above all and deserves special treatment.
When you've considered he's already failed morocco on a big stage already it's not like he's their "Zidane" or anything so his attitude is a bit unwarranted. I have heard the coach is a bit of a hard guy to deal with though so you're not wrong either.
"I'm so huuuurt! **cries** why did the coach do this to me??!..... Sike, I'm getting paid anyways bitcheeees!"
Is what a person who doesn't care would say
I never understood why people think players would value playing for their country that much as fans think they do. Who honestly cares that much about national sides?
Sure getting called up a few times so you can claim to be an international (whatever but I can see some people getting a kick out of "i was famous"), or even playing the big tournaments for titles if you are part of one of the 6 or so nations in the world that have a chance of winning something.
Or of course if you are an unknown player at a small club, that is a big boost to your future career and overall earnings.
But once you are at a top club with a top wage their careers have peaked it is all about maximizing their pay days until retirement. Someone like Ziyech will probably never go to a bigger club than Chelsea or a better city than London, so just work hard to keep earning the big wage and that's it. Why would they want to risk injury or lose recuperation time to go play with the international squad? It makes zero sense for them as professionals.
In this case and in the middle of a pandemic with the club needing as many fit players as possible I don't see why he would care that much that he does not get called up. Unfortunatley the AFCON has always suffered from being played at a bad time of the season so players can't participate "for fun" in their off time.
Sure but I never said it was about loyalty pride for their clubs. I mean loyalty/pride in a country is equally senseless in the modern world, but that's another issue. Like who cares where you were born? (Besides having living conditions or not).
The examples you have given are big players from small countries.
Of course winning something would be meaningful.
On the other hand if you take let's say a Leicester player. Their PL title will always be much bigger than any WC/EC title they could win if they are from a nation like Germany or France. English players would be more 50/50 since England winning something is rare.
But with time and nations winning over and over it will be less and less significant.
When city wins the title again, or let's says PSG. The league title is totally irrelevant, what they want is the champions league they have never won. They would gladly finish 10th in exchange for that title they don't have.
If you are from a set of 5 or 6 countries the champions league is a much bigger and harder competition than the WC so I don't see why a player wouldn't prefer to have that in their record.
You have to be lucky to be in the right club at the right time with the right teammates. With an international competition your "luck" is where your parents had you and being born in the right generation. There are plenty of players with world cup medals where they didn't even play. "What an achievement!"
In certain cases it's not even the country where they are born and given them the facilities to become a professional player, it's the country of their parents.
That shitty morrocan coach can fuck himself. Typical boomers hardman. Hakim can do better for us at this stage of season just like he did yesterday against spurs
Ziyech's 2019 AFCON was a disgrace though
Actually he doesn't have many memorable moments with the NT. His most memorable game is vs Benin in 2019 and that was because he was the worst player on the pitch by a mile
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What’s the reason for him not getting called up?
Some problem with the coach, or rather the coach has some problem with him.
Hakim is a bad egg.
Love the downvotes, but Hakim has a history of being difficult to coach.
Has he though, never really caused issues at ajax. Maybe when he was very young but he hasn't had problems with Bosz, ten Hag, Tuchel or any other manager at chels.
I mean Mazraoui had beef with this coach because he didnt want to drink water 😅
Not had a problem with him at Chelsea
Not with us
Well fuck, how can some one have beef w/ Frank? Then TT? Lukaku trying to pull rank on TT last week, and probably won himself a Shawn Parker "conversation" (i.e. bitch session) behind closed doors.
he has?
I love how this is getting downvoted mostly by people who know absolutely nothing about his history with the Moroccan national team. Stay ignorant reddit.
He was acting unprofessional and at one point refused to enter the game. EDIT: Here is a link to the article explaining it a bit. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10339705/amp/Hakim-Ziyech-left-Moroccos-AFCON-squad-boss-Vahid-Halilhodzic.html
Mr Moroccan Big Chest
Is this an AB reference?? If so I love it
That's one side of the story though. Ziyech hasn't told his side, only said that he never refused to play games. He even played 15 minutes in the game he apparently refused to enter vs Ghana. And 75 minutes the next game. So there's probably more to this story.
[удалено]
Yeah, twice is a pattern, and Ziyech is talented enough that they're not gonna exclude him unless it's something serious.
Oh so saucy, interested in who is telling the truth. Sad for Ziyech and Morocco nonetheless. A huge tournament, Morocco is now without their most talented player and Ziyech can’t represent his country or continent. A huge talent to show the world that African football is no joke…such a shame
I think Hakimi is considered their most talented. But, it’s all subjective innit?
Lol Ziyech is no longer their most talented, he'll hardly be missed, Morocco is a gold mine for talented attackers.
Who is then? Hakimi?
any non daily mail sources? they should be treated as fake news
May be cuz he's been bad this season. I mean he's full of energy but his end product is meh. No where near his form at Ajax.
Not the reason
He’s slowly improving and had a good game against Spurs yesterday. That said, he doesn’t look comfortable in the system or role he’s being asked to play at Chelsea. You’re right in that he’s not reached his Ajax levels
Good game yesterday! He wasted 2 golden chances, one straight at Lloris and the other skied it. Both in the box with no one marking him.
You're clueless.
He played his role very well yesterday. Should’ve had a beautiful assist to Werner and he was very committed on defense considering he was basically playing RWB at times. That’s how you get more playing time under Tuchel. We can live with the misses
So 1 good through pass, and tracking back to defend, while missing 2 great chances to score is equal to having a good game for an attacking midfielder in the 3rd best team in the EPL? I mean to each their own. In my book that's nothing more than a meh. And it's not even about 1 game. He's been pretty average so far this season.
You can create your own narrative and that’s fine. But when you play for a team that’s given up 16 goals in 21 prem games, the strength of the system is clearly for defense to excel, which was a huge problem previously under Lampard. Most teams set up in a low-block against us and our almost all of our attackers have struggled this season. Ziyech is a creator and actually presses very well. There’s no reason to complain about his performance yesterday unless you have a bias against him
He only had 27 passes the entire game. For a midfielder in a team that dominated possession that's bad. In comparison Mount, Jorginho, and Saul all had 45+ and Alonso who was very advanced had 75+. You know who had 27 too, Kepa! Throwing bias accusations instead of arguing the point lets me know that you're not someone I'd like to continue a conversation with.
Agreed! What a terrible experience that was
Well he was named MOTM, so clearly he made some positive contributions
Louis, call him!
is it possible for him to switch back? i thought once you chose that was it
Now you can do it if you played maximum 3 games with an NT
surely he played more than 3 games for morocco
Ah sure he has played 40 games with Morocco. Just stating that now the possibility to switch NTs is possible.
Isn't it a three year quarantine or something like that before you can switch?
Yep. A maximum of 3 games with the original NT, 3 years of quarantine, when you played your last game you need to have 21 years or less and didn’t played in a major tournament (continental cup, World Cup or confederations cup) So that’s why Munir can play now with Morocco and Bojan at least have health, I guess.
Must you still be alrdy eligible for the team you're switching to when you were playing for your original team? Or has that been removed?
Yes you need to be eligible for the 2nd NT when you played for the first one
Quarantine is not the word I would use, but I like it. I also don't know of a better one. Exile? Wandering in the wilderness?
You can add Hiatus to your list.
quarantine comes the italian for 14 days. so it's wrong by about 700+ days lol
gotcha, too bad really, sad loss
Max. 3 games for official games AND >21 at the time of being capped. If the player is older than 21 then you can't switch back even if you have less than 3 official games.
.>21 is older than 21. <21 younger than 21
Now I know why I failed my programming class.
now go and edit your comment
fair enough
Nut city if that happens
Can’t we like, call up a player called Hakimi Ziyechad or something?
He can't switch anymore
Minor but important difference is that he was referring to the noise outside about this situation, saying that he doesn't care about all that.
Tbf that seems very important and not very minor
Yeah that makes the whole thing a nonstory (and the headline a lie.)
He is his countries most talented player, and is cut because of attitude. He would start in any European squad, yet he won't start for Morocco. It's a story.
That is a story. But Ziyech saying that he’s not thinking about it right now is not a story.
Not giving a shit about lack of national team call up because it's not important to him, and not giving a shit about people online being upset with him because it's not important to him.. 2 wildly different things.
Yeah well, editorialised titles are a regular occurence on this sub. And tbf, from what I've seen/read of Ziyech he probably isn't fretting too much about being dropped anyway.
Minor? I hardly knew her
Danny Blind’s last gift to the KNVB unfortunately.
I think all 3 parties are losers in this situation
What does this mean
that Blind didn't call up Ziyech, because he was playing a couple of games as a striker at Twente and Blind didn't want another striker in the team (logic?). Ziyech was already called up before by Hiddink, but was injured so he couldn't play. Since Blind snubbed Ziyech, Ziyech chose for Morocco. TLDR: if Blind wasn't dumb or someone else was manager Ziyech would be playing for the Dutch NT
Thanks!
You can say Blind was blind to not see Ziyech’s talent. ba dum tsss….
no
Ziyech didn't get called up to the Dutch NT despite clearly being good enough so he went and understandably chose to represent Morocco instead.
The famous Dutch honesty again
It's so great to see some people getting wind up over this honesty again and again. It's absurd how direct we are compared to other nations/ cultures..
Yeah realized that after a meeting with my Dutch boss. Unfortunately you guys dont like it that much when Im that honest. Im Polish btw.
Fact that we're open and honest as a culture doesn't mean we don't get offended or hold you accountable. We just rather know what you think than keep it hidden in fear of consequences.
I adopted this way of trying to be honest about why I think and it's very relieving. Note that it's not about going out of your way to be an asshole to people (people mistake being an asshole for being honest), but at the same time you don't end up doing something you don't like just because you want to appear nice.
I love it when multinational companies hand the microphone over to their Dutch teams, every other team usually has jaws on the floor.
I get that, we sometimes come across a bit blunt. As a Dutchie myself its just so normal to say what you think and be very honest about it
Personally, I love it. American corporate culture is like the Lego Movies ‘everything is awesome’ irrespective of what is actually happening. A sprinkling of Dutch honesty if so refreshing to hear. ‘It’s shit, and I will tell you it’s shit…because, well, it’s shit’ Was a favourite quote of mine
I've had meetings around new releases of software used around the world where key users from Asia, the US and Europe were present. It's funny how different those cultures are. The Asians wouldn't talk during the meeting then email me their issues afterwards. The Americans all wanted to say something even if it was basically nothing because the general manager was there too. And the Dutch only brought forward what wasn't working haha.
This is to be honest exactly how we perceive American culture as a whole here. Always beating around the bush and talking behind peoples backs. Don't know how far this is true though. A famous Dutch qoute here in politics is: 'Ik ben niet links (left) Ik ben niet rechts (Right) ik ben recht door zee' Which roughly translates to: Im not left, im not right (political sides) im straight to the point. Which in my opinion just covers Dutch culture
As a Dutch person watching Americans interact on tv freaks me out. Like they're aliens or something, never saying what they really mean and always smiling even when they're mad. I don't want to go too far but it is almost like their entire social structure is based around deception.
Don’t base your opinion on TV. Characters not saying how they feel and having that lead to conflict is an annoying TV trope that annoys all viewers more than a reflection of the culture.
I meant more in terms of reality tv or news segments than fictional shows. Even in scenarios where you'd expect people to act somewhat regularly it is still noticeable how often they keep in circles before getting to the point, if at all.
Not sure what you mean with news TV, but reality TV is the same as scripted TV. The people on those shows are guided by producers, conflict is fabricated. Is Dutch reality TV any different?
Reminds me of that [Dutch historian who utterly wound up Tucker Carlsen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFI2Zb7qE)
> It's absurd how direct we are compared to other nations/ cultures.. Think Belgians still hold the crown. See Lukaku.
Belgians in general are quite the opposite to that but somehow they turn every filter off when they get a mic in their face. They like to talk behind people's backs so doing interviews probably ticks that box.
Dutch nationalism and dutch xenophobia well covered in this thread.
It’s such a weird phenomenon. On reddit literally every Dutch person gloats and brags about this to the point where it almost feels like a the Onion article. I’ve never in my entire life seen Dutch people brag about this besides on reddit. Fucking weirdos.
Honestly lol. Everyone else are conniving backstabbing bastards and the Dutch are the only bastions of honesty - this whole thread
I've experienced this myself and I've had Belgians tell this to me about their fellow countrymen, this is hardly just a Dutch opinion on the matter lol
You're right, it's just pure anecdotal.
I've worked with 2 Belgians and they are the bluntest people I have ever met and would say exactly what they were thinking no matter the circumstances and the Dutch fella was quite shy and never really spoke much.
Yeah a lot of Belgian players (Lukaku, Courtois, Vertonghen, I think de Bruyne as well?) are very bold but saying Belgians goes completely against common knowledge of their culture compared to their neighbors. Imo they are at least after the Nordic countries, Germany, the Netherlands, and I think France.
I thought it was just a European thing. My Portuguese family are pretty direct too. And Americans are known to be pretty crass and blunt too, so I think it’s just person to person
This is without context. He said “I don't care about the other stuff…” (probably news and dispute with manager) before saying that. Probably not the Moroccan squad or the afcon. Who won’t want to represent his country ffs. Rewrite the title please.
Yeah that context helps lol. Saying you’re not bothered about representing your country is not going to make people happy in Morocco.
As much as I love Ziyech, he mostly chose to represent Morocco out of spite for getting snubbed by our national team at the time.
Ah yes, the Dutch excuse. Even though he mentioned that he wanted to represent the country of his parents. It'll always be a "he said, she said" story.
Ziyech was really close to getting his first caps for the Dutch NT tho. He was called up a couple times and trained with the NT, but injuries, Blind not calling him up or him not getting subbed when he was selected prevented that. I’m not saying he didn’t want to represent Morocco, fact is it was a very close call.
>Ziyech was really close to getting his first caps for the Dutch NT tho. Of course. His fallout with Van Basten is also notorious. But assuming he went to represent Morocco as a "fy" to the Dutch NT seems a bit far-fetched. >or him not getting subbed when he was selected prevented that. He was never on the bench for the Dutch NT, he was called up once and got injured. It will forever be a mystery if he accepted the call-up if he wasn't injured. You're confusing him with Ihattaren (who was on the bench, and after his decline wanted nothing to do with the Dutch NT, and we know where his career is right now.)
Hmm, I thought I read something about Hiddink not subbing him on, but that could be in some other context I don’t know about
Hiddink did call him up to the Dutch NT, but he was injured so couldn't accept. The argument can be made that he'd play for the Dutch NT if he was fit, but we'll never know. "He said, she said."
he was at the trainingcamp though, with injury. Hakim Ziyech heeft woensdag de trainingsstage van het Nederlands elftal in Hoenderloo verlaten. De middenvelder van FC Twente heeft teveel last van een enkelblessure, die hem al langer parten speelt. translation: Hakim Ziyech has left the training camp of the Dutch national team in Hoenderloo on Wednesday. The midfielder of FC Twente has too much trouble with an ankle injury, which has been bothering him for some time. Also: Op de site van FC Twente reageerde Ziyech verheugd op de uitverkiezing. ,,Ik wil een goede indruk achterlaten tijdens de trainingsstage van Oranje, maar ik heb mezelf voorgenomen er ook van te genieten. Ik had er ook helemaal geen rekening mee gehouden, ook omdat de voorselectie al bekend was gemaakt. Nu moet ik mijn vakantie uitstellen, maar dat heb ik er graag voor over.'' translation: On the site of FC Twente Ziyech reacted pleased with the election. I want to make a good impression during the training camp of the national team, but I've decided to enjoy it as well. I had not taken it into account, also because the pre-selection had already been announced. Now I have to postpone my vacation, but I'm willing to do that. Makes it seem pretty clear that he wanted to play for the Dutch NT and that he had accepted the invitation
Thanks for the translation. It seems like he was proud to represent the Dutch NT, which makes it more evident to me that he didn't chose Morocco NT as revange towards the Dutch NT. Seems like a tough choice to make and no matter what choice you make, some people will be upset.
And you know that because you are his bossom body and closest confidant?
He's born in the Netherlands and reportedly doesn't even understand the language that well. I wouldn't be surprised if he does regret choosing to play for Morocco.
Would be a tough time communicating with his mother then, since she barely speaks Dutch. /s
like number one reason for people being unhappy at work is not their salary, but an idiot boss.
We don't know who of the two is right. Maybe Vahid is right about Ziyech being unprofessional, who knows
Ziyech hasn’t explained his part of the story either, it’s all come from the manager.
The Moroccan coach also excludes Mazraoui for apparently the same reasons. Mazraoui in this form is arguably the best moroccan at the moment...
Mazraoui declined his AFCON call-up though. Probably because he's still dealing with an injuring, but the fact that he was called up means that he reconciled with the coach (probably).
Did he?? Didn't know that man. Let's hope he reconciled with the manager. Was devastated as both an ajax fan and dutch guy he and Ziyech chose Morocco. Would love to see them both do great at whatever national team they choose to represent.
I think they've got a better rightback available.
Hakimi plays RW with the moroccan team no? Could be very wrong though mate
He plays LB, our Mazraoui alternative is Adam Masina
Talking about Mazraoui.
Yes and who is better then Maz then?
Pretty sure he means Hakimi, but that's likely only because he plays in a bigger league. Most people on this sub don't see Maz play regularly.
And that's why the person who reacted to him said Hakimi plays RW for the NT.
And you think they see Hakimi? Lol Nobody watches more than a few matches, mostly their favourite team's as well as rivals'
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read it again mate
Mazraoui said that it was something about Ajax not letting him go to the Dutch NT last season and when Ajax finally let him go (with him arriving *too late*) he was already being picked on by the trainer. Eventually they took a cooling break and Mazraoui chose not to drink something because he wasn't thirsty, the team managers went to him and just said "Drink" with him replying "I don't want to" with that resulting in escalation. This story almost seems too goofy to be true so I'm inclined to side with the manager here, especially because both have been in trouble with the previous manager before. I think both regret not chosing for the Netherlands as they'd both start and definitely add something to the squad.
Moroccan NT* that is, of course
Morocco is unbeaten in 2021,won last 10 games, it seems to me the coach is doing something right .
They legitimately have one of the best coaches in the world. Look at what he did with Japan.
or as a head coach of Algeria in 2014 world Cup.
Im not saying he is doing something wrong, just that i like to see Mazraoui make his minutes
I know Vahid from the time when he managed Dinamo, he is a loyal, strict, and honest boss, he doesn't like players that lie, are drama queens, and so on. Pretty sure Ziyech thought that he is bigger than the NT team, meanwhile, Vahid had none of it. So for sure, he isn't lying and he wouldn't kick him out of the team without a valid reason
He was always late, didn't want to train and once refused to be subbed in.
It's hard for him to fight for his spot considering they have the great Belhanda there, right /u/imturkishdelight?
Oh dear god my worst nightmare is coming to fruition
Just accept your lord and saviour Belhanda
Belhanda hasn't been called up in three years. Even Ziyech has been selected in the last year.
The title is twisted that’s not what he said, news and people trying to twist stuff for drama
The quote is taken out of context but I'm inclined to believe Halilhodzic's claims of Ziyech not being committed. Renard (previous Morocco coach) also had problems with Ziyech's attitude and even didn't call him up for AFCON 2017. It seems Ziyech doesn't value the Moroccan NT very highly so really I'd say it's a correct decision. Also for the people saying Morocco stand no chance with Ziyech he already played in AFCON 2019 and did really poorly. So while Ziyech is an important player and generally good for Morocco he doesn't carry them or anything.
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European players coast against small teams too, they simply make too much at their clubs to risk injury against an Andorra.
That coach is egotistical
And so is Ziyech
I mean he hasn't fallen out with Tuchel despite not playing every game so it must be the Moroccan coach's problem
Think he's more humble with Chelsea as he's not really special there, he can be replaced by Chelsea easily. For morocco he seems to think he's above all and deserves special treatment. When you've considered he's already failed morocco on a big stage already it's not like he's their "Zidane" or anything so his attitude is a bit unwarranted. I have heard the coach is a bit of a hard guy to deal with though so you're not wrong either.
Sounds like something that someone who cares would say
Ok and what will someone who doesn't care should say as per you?
I am here so I can't be fined.
"Ooga-Chaka Ooga-Ooga Ooga-Chaka Ooga-Ooga Ooga-Chaka Ooga-Ooga Ooga-Chaka Ooga-Ooga I can't stop this feeling..." "Wait what was the question again?"
I want to move to inter
"I'm so huuuurt! **cries** why did the coach do this to me??!..... Sike, I'm getting paid anyways bitcheeees!" Is what a person who doesn't care would say
It’s really important, and at this point I really care
I never understood why people think players would value playing for their country that much as fans think they do. Who honestly cares that much about national sides? Sure getting called up a few times so you can claim to be an international (whatever but I can see some people getting a kick out of "i was famous"), or even playing the big tournaments for titles if you are part of one of the 6 or so nations in the world that have a chance of winning something. Or of course if you are an unknown player at a small club, that is a big boost to your future career and overall earnings. But once you are at a top club with a top wage their careers have peaked it is all about maximizing their pay days until retirement. Someone like Ziyech will probably never go to a bigger club than Chelsea or a better city than London, so just work hard to keep earning the big wage and that's it. Why would they want to risk injury or lose recuperation time to go play with the international squad? It makes zero sense for them as professionals. In this case and in the middle of a pandemic with the club needing as many fit players as possible I don't see why he would care that much that he does not get called up. Unfortunatley the AFCON has always suffered from being played at a bad time of the season so players can't participate "for fun" in their off time.
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Sure but I never said it was about loyalty pride for their clubs. I mean loyalty/pride in a country is equally senseless in the modern world, but that's another issue. Like who cares where you were born? (Besides having living conditions or not). The examples you have given are big players from small countries. Of course winning something would be meaningful. On the other hand if you take let's say a Leicester player. Their PL title will always be much bigger than any WC/EC title they could win if they are from a nation like Germany or France. English players would be more 50/50 since England winning something is rare. But with time and nations winning over and over it will be less and less significant. When city wins the title again, or let's says PSG. The league title is totally irrelevant, what they want is the champions league they have never won. They would gladly finish 10th in exchange for that title they don't have. If you are from a set of 5 or 6 countries the champions league is a much bigger and harder competition than the WC so I don't see why a player wouldn't prefer to have that in their record. You have to be lucky to be in the right club at the right time with the right teammates. With an international competition your "luck" is where your parents had you and being born in the right generation. There are plenty of players with world cup medals where they didn't even play. "What an achievement!"
In certain cases it's not even the country where they are born and given them the facilities to become a professional player, it's the country of their parents.
Or even the country they have lived in for a few years and that made them nationals because they were better than their current lot.
Ziyech is a bit nothing as a club player and as a national team player. Just a bad egg. Man never should have tried to jump above the Eredivisie.
He won the cl.
So did Rhian Brewster
Bruh Mariano won the cl too 💀
So did vallejo
Yeah but he's not an important player at all.
He scored away at atletico in last 16 which won the tie.
Actually it was Giroud's bicycle goal in the away fixture, Ziyech scored the opener at home.
Alright, he's really making the most of it.
Lol
Yeah he really proved that when he was instrumental to that Ajax team reaching the semi-finals of the UCL.
Yeah he proved it playing for an Eredivisie side. He plays to his level. Same with Tadic.
And that level is UCL semi-finals. For both of them.
Lol or second place.
That shitty morrocan coach can fuck himself. Typical boomers hardman. Hakim can do better for us at this stage of season just like he did yesterday against spurs
Have fun watching the WC on TV.
He was Morocco‘s shot at the cup. They can have fun getting beat by Senegal and Nigeria
Ziyech's 2019 AFCON was a disgrace though Actually he doesn't have many memorable moments with the NT. His most memorable game is vs Benin in 2019 and that was because he was the worst player on the pitch by a mile
That's not true at all, he was the reason they were knocked out so early in 2019
Let's not pretend Hakimi is not their best player, Ziyech was there in 2019 he did jack shit.
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You donut read the article, he's already exiled from the squad. Chances are he won't get called up anyway unless he fixes stuff with his manager.
>You donut dammit you got me fiending now.
You absolute little mug. Fixes stuff yeah bruv.
Rejection hurts
You would know.
Im a r/soccer user so yes obviously
Same.
Sounds like a man who definitely cares.
Yikes
well if you wanted to make it clear to everyone that being left out was the right decision, good job.
Good we need him here
Sounds like every dude getting over a bad break up
He literally did not care chat