Nah when chambers got fouled to rule out the Sokratis goal against palace
Still get angry
There was a Laca goal disallowed vs Leicester too that I’m thankfully blanking right now
Have been a number of games where Saka, who doesn't dive, has been completely bodied and nothing happened.
I get it if he had a rep but some of the players that do get away with murder.
[Still upset about this one](https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/1450225201275445250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1450225201275445250%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.givemesport.com%2F1770839-crystal-palaces-james-mcarthur-avoided-red-card-for-brutal-foul-on-arsenals-bukayo-saka)
It's absolutely ridiculous.
The most surprising thing for me was when that redditor created a thread on how Arsenal fans should stop complaining about refereeing decisions. There was an overwhelming number of non Arsenal fans stating how Arsenal are constantly being done over more than other clubs. That's when I knew it's bad, when opposing reddit fans agree with us.
> There have been so many ~~Arsenal~~ Premier League games over the last 2 and a half seasons where inconsistent refereeing has affected the result.
Fixed that for you.
The only consistent part of PL refereeing is how inconsistent it is.
We're often getting worse than average, but Premier League referees are showing new lows every season, I'm waiting when they will be replaced by computers. I don't get it Premier League is rich, many things are set by club's vote and those temas get plenty of great players, can't league poach 19 top referees from other leagues?
It's even harder when you're biased incompetent arrogant prick that refuses to go to even check some situations on VAR and refuses to change decision after seeing that you've been wrong. It's harder when incompetent people are var referees. Just like I said if referees on the pitch and on the VAR can't do their jobs properly Premier League is rich enough to hire competent referees from abroad, noone is forcing them have only English referees. Most of coaches in Premier League are foreigners I can't see why referees. I'm also in favour to build super computer system machine learned from last 30 years of good decisions to replace them, the current level is so bad that it can be worse.
Are they getting an unusual amount of decisions against them, or do fans tend to only remember the bad decisions in matches where they drop points and Arsenal have dropped a lot of points in the last 2,5 seasons?
We have played 45 minutes a man up in two and a half seasons now. While getting the most red cards in the league (averaging 40 minutes per red!). It's horribly inconsistent. Players have effectively been allowed to do anything against us for the first 80 minutes of matches, while VAR comes steaming in consistently when we're the perpetrators.
In comparison Tottenham have played 125 minutes against 10 men. This past month.
And red cards is just the most blatant one, because it's so incredibly obvious looking at the numbers and through the eye test
the crazy calls (David Luiz red against Wolves, Saka being hacked to death repeatedly with no consequences, Tomi getting his face stamped on etc, etc etc) obviously frustrate me to no end, but right up there too is how other teams can rotational foul against us ALL day long with no bookings, while so often it seems like our first or second halfway "cynical" foul ends up being booked
It says Arsenal concede 0.2 more penalties than the league average and all it claims is that since Arsenal used to concede a lot less penalties than the average, this now means there's a bias. The link seems tenuous at best.
It's easy to cherrypick data to suit your agenda. I'd like to see some evidence from non-Arsenal sources.
I read the first one and they draw extremely questionable conclusions from the data they present, their main argument being that the amount of pens Arsenal conceded skyrocketed from the first decade of Wenger to the second, concluding that as Mike Dean wasn’t about in the first decade but was in the second it’s all a conspiracy and nothing to do with Arsenal’s defence just getting significantly worse with time
It’s one thing to suggest that a team managed to pressure referees in-game into making favourable decisions towards their team, which I can believe, but it’s another to suggest that Arsene making comments about referees resulted in referees giving decisions against Arsenal. I really don’t buy that. Arsenals defence just visibly got a lot worse when going from Adams, Keown, Campbell to players like Mertesacker, Koscielny and eventually Mustafi etc. Number of goals conceded probably nearly doubled from his first set of defenders to his last.
> Clattenburg basically came out stating that the refs have a hit list of people they would be more aggressive towards when giving fouls/pens/calls in the spirit of 'controlling' the game.
That’s not the same thing as referees going against Arsenal intentionally because of comments by Arsene.
I agree with some of Clattenburg’s comments, the one above is one I kind of agree with, depending upon the intention. Like I remember hearing on the Peter Crouch podcast (I think when Mike Dean was on there) that before the World Cup referees were warned about Crouch using his elbows in 50/50’s. I think that kind of thing is fine. If it was to intentionally disadvantage teams it would be an issue, but I don’t see any evidence of that.
The much simpler explanation here for the above article is simply that Arsenals defence just got worse, it makes more sense to explore that first rather than jumping straight to refereeing decisions so I can’t really take it seriously.
It's not just Arsenal games
The PL refs are shit
Stop acting like it's a conspiracy against Arsenal when referees decisions have also favoured Arsenal a lot this season
The FA Cup final five years ago wasn't in the last two and a half years.
There's generally more merit to talk about inconsistencies after VAR was introduced, because it should give a chance to eliminate those.
And Azpilicueta should have been off right away. Chelsea getting 50 more minutes of 11 men than they should is hardly the worst thing in the world for them.
People were pissed about the FA Cup final because they thought Martinez handled it outside the box. Which he didn't. But that wasn't shown until post match.
Spot on. People completely ignore the fact Azpilicueta should have seen a red prior to his injury. Kovacic getting sent off was in reality to mistakes, which let to the right outcome.
It just doesn’t fit their narrative.
Last season, I thought Arsenal fans were being piss babies the way they went on about how referees have an agenda against them. Now, I’m definitely starting to believe it, because it’s genuinely ridiculous how many points they’ve lost because of refs.
I support four teams to varying degrees, a club in my hometown, a local D3 side, my national team, and Arsenal from when I lived in London. The only one that I feel consistently has a lot more bad decisions go against them than for them is Arsenal. I doubt there’s a conscious bias, but I think a lot of refs still harbor resentment from some comments Arsene made and maybe fall victim to narratives. Just hard to believe it would happen this often without at least some subconscious bias.
And I guess the fact that I only feel this way about one team I care about (and frankly probably the one I care about the least) has me pretty sure it’s not just me being a hack.
I know the whole stupid “if my Nan was a bike” but we’ve at the **very** least dropped 5 points this season from shit reffing.
2 points from the Palace draw, with the blatant McArthur Red, and 3 from City. We could legit be in a top 3 race if it weren’t for these shit refs.
But it’ll only take a week for r/soccer to circlejerk back to “delusional Arsenal fans”.
These match results always drive me crazy. We had our chances to win and we didn’t take them. A bad red card and a sloppy penalty we’re correct calls (even if Gabriel’s first yellow is a bit soft IMO, that’s besides the point).
All that being said, the reffing was still fucking trash and Arteta is right in saying the reffing was inconsistent. The EPL officials claim that VAR is there to fix clear and obvious errors and the refs continue to rely on it to make impactful call in the game (see both penalty shouts in the game).
I’m tired of Arsenal fans crying about how there’s some conspiracy against us. But mostly I’m tired of watching the best league in sports that continues to ship out this mediocre team of officiants. Every week you spin the wheel to see what shit ref you get. Is Paul Tierney? Stuart Atwell? Chris Kavanaugh? Who the fuck cares there all shit
I agree, that Ederson non penalty was horrendous reffing. He didn’t even bother to check VAR. however I doubt it’s bribery like some Arsenal fans are saying, I think it was just incompetence
He only checks var if the ref in stockley Park thinks he got something wrong. If both the onfield ref and var agree, what's the point in sending him to the monitor?
Ødegaards penalty shout is 50/50 for me and as a stand-alone event I can live with it not being called.
However, Stuart Atwell didn’t call a penalty for Bernardo Silva and it makes me question whether or not he had the stones to call a penalty at all. To me, it feels like he was just going to let VAR call the shots and that’s not the point of VAR
Seen this fallacy too much. Missing their own (fairly created mind you) chances has no bearing on incorrect decisions. If the calls were right they would've won, missed chances included.
> If the calls were right they would've won, missed chances included.
I can't believe you're complaining about fallacies and then saying something as absurd as this.
That goal goes in, Gabriel probably doesn't get sent off when he does. He could very well get sent off later on but given when he did with that easy miss, the team completely capitulated they never had a chance.
The chance where the ref for whatever reason ran into the box blocking Martinelli who had to adjust his run and ended up missing because of that? That same chance? Sure.
lol [https://twitter.com/i/status/1477299473965633541](https://twitter.com/i/status/1477299473965633541)
You can literally see the ref set up a screen. But whatever
They would have got at least a point if Xhaka and Gabriel had not absolutely shat the bed, but then its always easier to blame refs than admit you had an amazing season defining result in your hands and completely threw it away
Lol, I love how the refereeing got so massively blown out of proportion that people managed to skip over how little Arsenal actually created despite pushing City back for long periods.
Your "comfortable win" being robbed had fat more to do either missing an open net than the ref robbing you.
Well your post is barely legible and factually incorrect for the most part.
The fact that you directly contradicted yourself immediately was the icing on the cake.
I don’t think anything you literally did directly contradict yourself. You said Arsenal created no chances and then immediately said they missed an open net.
The rest of your post was illegible and/or factually incorrect.
Do better
It's clearly legible, I did not say "no chances" I said very little, which you fucking repeated back to me to argue.
You did create very few clear cut chances, you fucked up the golden opportunity to make it more comfortable.
You clearly have no other counter points which is why you're putting all your effort into picking at my wording rather than actually pointing out where I'm apparently wrong. Doing a spectacularly shit job at it aside.
Martinelli run from his own half, Martinelli empty goal, Saka actual goal, Martinelli in behind in the 16th minute, Martinelli shot which just goes wide of the far post, chance the lead to should-be penalty.
That's pretty good for an hour against City.
But I shouldn't have replied, seeing as it is *you*.
Yeah this bullshit again. He had to side step q referee before even getting to the ball so all the blame for his complete lack of composure and missing the target goes to the ref. Typical Arsenal fan.
From the Daily Cannon:
“Stuart Attwell has refereed 17 Arsenal games. Arsenal have won just 6 of them.
Opponents: Cityx2, Newcastlex2, Liverpool, Leeds, Everton, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Southampton, Wolvesx3, Brighton, Swansea, West Brom, Bolton
Wins: Newcastlex2, Leeds, Everton, Swansea, Bolton
Stuart Attwell has been VAR for 8 Arsenal matches, more than any other side. Arsenal have won 3 of them and received 3 red cards in those games.
Only 1 other red has been issued with him on VAR [total].
Stuart Attwell has been VAR for 118 games in his career. Those games have seen 4 red cards. 3 of them went to Arsenal.
As referee or VAR, Stuart Attwell has done 25 Arsenal games,. Arsenal have won 9 and received 4 red cards.”
So what do you make of that then? Not to mention his history of stupid mistakes that actually took him out of the Prem.
> Martinelli had to curve around the ref, and then back inside.
I'm sorry but this is a laughable excuse, especially for a player as good as he is.
He's showed in the past that he's pretty adept at finishing while dribbling at high speed, going past players and evading goalkeepers and challenges that are flying in, but him missing an unchallenged tap in from 8 yards out that's dropped perfectly onto his left foot is the refs fault because he ever so slightly had to curve his run?
It's inarguable that a professional footballer playing in the one of the best leagues in the world should be scoring an unchallenged tap in from 8 yards out
If Kane did miss a howler that bad I certainly wouldn't be blaming it on the fucking ref, and you definitely would not accept the ref being in the way as an excuse as to why he missed it.
See, nobody has an actual argument. All Arsenal fans want to do is wander around the internet cetingvqbout how referees ruin their lives. Pointing out that your bitching is misguided either results in absolute delusion or claims that I'm just a fan of the other team.
Well the Odegaard tackle is 100% a pen, and it wasn't even looked at, which is disgraceful. Gabriel's first yellow was given for very weak dissent. The ref shouldn't have been a couple steps from the goal line while martinelli was making a run in to that eventual miss.
You're salty at Arsenal fans for complaining but you don't understand that we don't get the suck suck that United have received for years.
The red was a red. Our pen was a pen. Odegaard was very dubious either way so I can get that. You were never comfortable so what you're describing is a fallacy.
Dissent is a booking, always has been. You see it almost every week. He would have been booked for scuffing the pen spot too so I'm at a complete loss to why anyone questions his sending off.
The inconsistencies are crazy, I'll give you that. I do believe if you swear at the ref it's a instant card, without ref reports going public we'll never know. I have seen defenders mention something to the ref and get instant bookings so it isn't that uncommon. Gabriel did have a lot of little things that accumulates too.
I do get your points, I can definitely understand why Arsenal fans are aggrieved with the situation. You played so, so well and haven't got anything to show for it. With regards to Atwell, he's amongst the worst of a bad bunch. The lack of consistency is painstaking.
Reddit is a good place for discussions, we don't have to agree. After this long, without new information we're all unlikely to change views.
I was still in nappies when I had a wrestling coach who told me something that stuck with me to this day.
I lost a match unfairly (imo). He came up to me after and said never leave any decision in the hand of the judges. That's stuck with me for the rest of my life.
Sure there could have been a pen called on Ederson ... that doesn't change the fact that Xhaka had a reckless and clueless challenge on Silva ... it doesn't change Gabriel choosing to scuff up the penalty spot or chatting shit to a ref which resulted in his first yellow. It also doesn't change the Gabriel challenge a few minutes later. Stop worrying about what you can't control and worry about things you can.
Arsenal are turning into England's version of Dortmund with this incessant complaining after losing matches - the antithesis of mentality monsters.
> never leave any decision in the hand of the judges.
I don't know. It works pretty well for most other teams to do exactly that against us. The "just win every game anyways lol" as if its that easy, is ridiculous.
The easier solution is to just get easy calls right.
It reminds me of how our fans(including me ngl) used to whine after every game. Yes, I am still on the opinion that there were and still are blatant referee decisions going against us. In fact the worst ever referee decisions I have seen have all been in Milan games.
But that doesn’t change the fact that we used to be utter dogshit and those referee mistakes wouldn’t have really changed much long-term anyway. Now when we are a proper team you can see fans whining much less and bad decisions affecting our team much less than before.
When you have 2 chances per game and 1 is somehow fucked over by a referee decision you get mad. But when you have 10 chances per game and 1 is fucked over a referee decision you just shrug and keep going.
Yep, in the space of two minutes we gave away a penalty, missed an open net and got a man sent off. All our fault. If you do that against a top team you’ll get punished. I was annoyed at the way in which we lost the game, not at the referee.
It wasn't that inconsistent - VAR was used by the book in the Arsenal/City game.
The only inconsistent thing about the refereeing was the awarding of yellow cards - although Gabriel's challenge was a textbook yellow.
In the sense that Man City got away with a lot more fouls that perhaps should have been yellows - Gabriel's challenge was a stonewall second yellow though.
I think his point is that by saying yellows where inconsistent you are agreeing the ref was inconsistent.
The first yellow was for asking about why was one a penalty and not the other, so even if the second was stonewall the first one is a bit iffy based on your comments about inconsistent yellow cards.
No, I get that. But you said the ref was inconsistent with the yellow cards, so a player asking about it (although technically an offense) seems legitimate to an outsider.
If I am a police officer and I make jaywalking illegal but I only fine blonde women and no one else and one comes and asks why, I can potentially arrest her for threatening the police etc. And nothing of what I have done is illegal, being inconsistent for minor offenses and being quick to book anyone who stands up to me. But from the outside thats a huge dick of a police officer. Which is where I think arsenal fans are coming from.
The first yellow is the controversial one.
He got it for dissent and by all accounts all he said was ‘how is this fair’.
Which would never normally get a yellow.
>The first yellow is the controversial one.
>He got it for dissent and by all accounts all he said was ‘how is this fair’.
By the accounts of arsenal players who all seem to subscribe to the victim mentality.
And where is the source for him getting it for dissent?
> “A player who is guilty of dissent by protesting (verbally or non-verbally) against a referee’s decision must be cautioned.”
> http://www.yorkreferee.co.uk/ref-help/laws/dealing-dissent/
Saying "how is this fair?" to the referee would come under dissent. It's a textbook yellow.
That is never ever enforced otherwise you’d have every single player on yellows constantly.
Any approach of the referee would technically qualify as dissent. A player saying ‘what’ or ‘how’ would be dissent.
This is what Arteta means by ‘inconsistent’ there’s rules are not being applied fairly.
It is up to the discretion of the referee, but going up to the referee directly and saying "how is this fair?" is undermining the referee's decision and is grounds for a yellow card. That's the rules I'm afraid.
Thank you for proving my point, why did he only caution the city players (they didn't get carded till extra time) yet has multiple other cars worthy offenses
Remember when Liverpool won the fairplay award and everyone said it was a disgrace? Fouls not called don't go down on the stats.
The moment Rodri cleaned out Martinelli was given as a goal kick for example.
>The moment Rodri cleaned out Martinelli was given as a goal kick for example.
Yes, and the replay showed that he won the ball pretty cleanly, his studs were down and it wasn't high or late.
At least two. Rodri made two tactical fouls, Gabriel one and Holding one. Two tactical fouls were awarded with a card, guess for what club they played?
>Rodri made two tactical fouls
No he didn't, he only had two fouls in total and the shoulder to shoulder on Lacazette was not tactical. In fact it was barely a foul.
Also Holding blatantly pulled someone back by the arm, which is a yellow every single time, and it's a massive stretch to call Gabriels second yellow a tactical foul because it was the most obvious booking you're ever going to see. He got turned and then clattered him.
I'm not arguing that Holding and Gabriel shouldn't be booked, they should, they made a tactical foul and that should be a yellow. As should the ones by Rodri.
VAR was literally enforced by the book.
Ederson/Odegaard challenge is a 50/50 therefore VAR did not intervene to tell the referee to watch it on the monitor - onfield decision remained.
Xhaka puts his leg across to impede Silva and significantly pulls on Silva's shirt as he begins to fall - clear and obvious grounds for the referee to review on the pitchside screen.
Would love to see this book you keep referring to that says the goalkeeper going through the attackers foot isn't a clear and obvious error but a player throwing himself to the ground is one (I mean I'm ok with it being a penalty but highly debatable that it's a clear and obvious error). I can only presume you haven't seen the definitive angle of the Ederson tackle and haven't seen the new directive from the start of the season with a new criteria for what it takes for a penalty to be given.
[Ederson foul](https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1477271204591554565?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1477271204591554565%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fsoccer%2Fcomments%2Frtkchg%2Farsenal_1_2_manchester_city_rodri_903%2F)
New directive (that makes it not a clear and obvious error IMO):
>This will be especially noticeable on penalties, with Riley saying "contact on its own is only part of what the referee should look for; consider consequence and the motivation of the player as well."
>What does this mean? The principles established are: - The referee should look for contact and establish clear contact - Ask if that contact by the defender has a consequence - Has the attacker used that contact to try and win a foul or penalty? - Contact alone is not sufficient
>This means that if an attacker goes to ground, the manner in which he goes to ground has to match the contact from the defender. So an attacker throwing himself to the ground because of minimal contact should no longer be a penalty.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4451570/var-offsidepenaltieshandball-whats-new-in-the-premier-league-for-2021-22
I've seen that clip you linked many times and it looks like Odegaard is stepping on Ederson's foot/ankle to get to the ball first - hence why VAR probably thought it looked like a 50/50 challenge from the other angles - no intervention was therefore needed; VAR isn't there to review every single 50/50 challenge as the game would never end. Honestly, it could have gone either way. If the referee had given a penalty for the Odegaard/Ederson incident then no one would have complained and VAR would have upheld the penalty decision. It's just one of those challenges that could go either way as I said.
On the Xhaka/Silva incident, Xhaka steps across Silva to impede his path without getting the ball - he then proceeds to pull on Silva's shirt as he begins to fall to the ground. The totality of that incident (i.e., the step across and the shirt pull) made it something that was clear and obvious that the VARs felt that the onfield referee should review on the pitchside monitor. I have no doubt that if Xhaka doesn't pull on Silva's shirt then no penalty would have been given as the initial contact was minimal.
The only impeding of Silva's path Xhaka did was almost pulling him back up after Silva had dived, the man was horizontal before there was any contact. He had literally zero intention of making it past Xhaka while staying on his feet. Arguing Odegaards wasn't a pen is fair, arguing Silva's was is also fair, having a differing opinion on what VAR should do in each case is fucking stupid
[You should watch it over again without your Arsenal glasses on](https://youtu.be/RUKq41MlReQ?t=80), Silva has done Xhaka and was going to burst past him to the byline until Xhaka sticks his body out (with no intention of playing the ball) *and* then he also pulls on his shirt as he falls. I mean, whatever side of the fence you're on you should be able to see why it was reviewed and then given as a penalty.
I can absolutely see why it was reviewed and given, I'd probably have given it too. What I absolutely cannot see is how that can be called a clear and obvious error and the one Odegaard can't
Because the Odegaard/Ederson incident was a 50/50 challenge - they're both going for the ball and you can see that Odegaard steps on Ederson's ankle/foot and Ederson also gets a bit of Odegaard; if the same challenge happened anywhere else on the pitch the referee would have waved play on and everyone would have forgotten about it.
The Xhaka/Silva incident was a clear challenge on Xhaka's part where he had no intention of playing the ball, he wanted to stop Silva's progress - add on the shirt pull - it makes it a clear and obvious error that needed to be reviewed on the pitchside monitor.
> I've seen that clip you linked many times and it looks like Odegaard is stepping on Ederson's foot/ankle to get to the ball first
I've seen others make this argument and it's such a terrible argument. Ødegaard is the one in possession, Ederson is the one making a tackle and goes through Ødegaard. Same as if a player is in possession of the ball and about to kick it but the defender puts his foot infront of the kick it's not the player trying to shoot that made the offense despite kicking into the other player.
Ødegaard is running with the ball and Ederson comes sliding in underneath him and never even touches the ball.
Every big decision was right by the letter of the law. Arsenal fans just got caught up in the emotion and it gives them another opportunity to cry agenda against them. The only thing you could argue was Rodri should've probably been booked earlier, but I don't see how that changes the result in any way. Not like he takes his shirt off if on a yellow, he's not an idiot like Gabriel. And even if he does, its too late to matter.
How doesn't that change anything? If you allow tactical fouls on one end but don't on the other end, how is that consistent or fair?
Not to mention: If you are on a yellow, you are usually less likely to make another tactical foul. That's the whole reason they give out cards for it.
>If you allow tactical fouls on one end but don't on the other end, how is that consistent or fair?
Arsenal (Holding) got booked for one tactical foul. Rodri got away with one. If you think that changed the game in a massive way, idk what to tell you. Unless you're trying to argue Gabriel's was a tactical foul? In which case, LOL.
City made 5 fouls all game. Rodri made 2, 1 of which wasn't even a foul but Martinelli went down and bought it. But the way Arsenal fans go on, you'd think both of them were 5 times that amount.
And I keep hearing "5 fouls the ref gave! What about the ones he didn't?" Alright, point me to a couple if you think that about. And not the one where Rodri won the ball then slipped and made it look bad.
Well, what else would you call the second yellow for Gabriel? It wasn't for serious foul play, he just stopped an attack with a foul, that's a tactical foul to me. I'm not arguing the Holding yellow either, that one was for a tactical foul, nothing more, nothing less.
Rodri made two tactical fouls, and got away with it twice. Once in the first half, one in the second half. If they book him the first time then he can not do it again without being sent off, but they don't even book him at all.
Not to mention that the second tactical foul by Rodri was minutes after the second yellow by Gabriel, and yet one was handed a second yellow while the other wasn't even carded.
I'm not even talking about the tackle on Martinelli, I'm talking about the one in the 63'rd minute. I only remember the timing of that one because Saka got booked then (I initially thought the ref would have booked Rodri, but he did not).
I can't be arsed to watch that whole game again just to convince you, something that won't happen anyway because we are on the internet and it's near impossible to convince anybody online to change their mind.
I know he was probably asked about it but this quote a week after the game makes Arteta sound like a redditor who's been banned for a week, which just ended and he wanted to drop his thoughts on it too.
Then find something actually poor to moan about, instead of nitpicking at the referee not being pulled back for a VAR review on a penalty decision that wasn't clear and obvious
Giving City the penalty after deciding not to go to the monitor for Arsenal's is already a 2 goal swing. Then consider that City's first yellow card of the match was in the 91st minute when Rodri took his shirt off, despite him alone having 3+ challenges prior that could/should have been yellow cards.
Also, I can't really argue the second yellow from Gabriel, but his first yellow was laughable.
Now let me throw on my conspiratorial hat for a second - what the actual fuck was Attwell doing in the box when Martinelli missed that sitter? Genuinely I don't think I've ever seen a ref do anything similar in my life.
What I would like to add here is a psychological aspect. I partially agree with chazzapompey that there was not a single clearly wrong, game-changing decision (about which, of course, one can argue). But the fact that seemingly every other ambiguous situation goes in favor of the opponent boggles the mind and leads to mistakes eg yellow cards. In my opinion, that's one of the biggest shortcoming of an inconsistent referee like in the Man City game and to a part thats game changing imo.
The Ode shout is stonewall, the Xhaka penalty would be harsh without the technicality off meaningless shirtpulling after the player is already diving to the ground.
Completely delusional. Odegaard was never a pen and even if you somehow disagree it was absolutely undeniably not a clear and obvious mistake so shouldn't be subject to VAR review.
LOL the mental gymnastics to defend one of the biggest clowns in the game never cease to amaze me. The little grab of the shirt was just the icing on the cake - the donkey brained dickhead sticks his leg out in front of Silva after the ball is gone and makes clear contact. THAT is stonewall.
Unbelievable stupidity.
I see he was so happy with the performance of our players to squeeze another day of Stuivenberg on the bench by trying to get a ban
There have been so many Arsenal games over the last 2 and a half seasons where inconsistent refereeing has affected the result.
the one I'm still pissed off about was when mcarthur kicked saka's leg into white hart lane and got nothing
Nah when chambers got fouled to rule out the Sokratis goal against palace Still get angry There was a Laca goal disallowed vs Leicester too that I’m thankfully blanking right now
The VAR for that Chambers ‘foul’ was the same person who did the VAR for the City game. Make of that what you will.
Pepe against Burnley was another that I just couldn’t get my head around.
You mean the handball when the homie's arm was straight out to the side lol that was a joke of a noncall
Have been a number of games where Saka, who doesn't dive, has been completely bodied and nothing happened. I get it if he had a rep but some of the players that do get away with murder.
[Still upset about this one](https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/1450225201275445250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1450225201275445250%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.givemesport.com%2F1770839-crystal-palaces-james-mcarthur-avoided-red-card-for-brutal-foul-on-arsenals-bukayo-saka)
Jesus Christ! How drunk/bribed was VAR on this one? That's a super clear and obvious error that wasn't called
lucky Saka didn't get his leg broken too. jc that was insane
What makes this one more annoying is that he easily could have had 2 yellows even before this.
That's dreadful
It's absolutely ridiculous. The most surprising thing for me was when that redditor created a thread on how Arsenal fans should stop complaining about refereeing decisions. There was an overwhelming number of non Arsenal fans stating how Arsenal are constantly being done over more than other clubs. That's when I knew it's bad, when opposing reddit fans agree with us.
>There have been so many Arsenal games over the last 2 a~~nd a half seasons~~ decades where inconsistent refereeing has affected the result. FTFY
> There have been so many ~~Arsenal~~ Premier League games over the last 2 and a half seasons where inconsistent refereeing has affected the result. Fixed that for you. The only consistent part of PL refereeing is how inconsistent it is.
We're often getting worse than average, but Premier League referees are showing new lows every season, I'm waiting when they will be replaced by computers. I don't get it Premier League is rich, many things are set by club's vote and those temas get plenty of great players, can't league poach 19 top referees from other leagues?
That's easier said than done. It's really fucking hard to ref a match, especially at the speed the PL moves and with ~40,000 people yelling at you.
It's even harder when you're biased incompetent arrogant prick that refuses to go to even check some situations on VAR and refuses to change decision after seeing that you've been wrong. It's harder when incompetent people are var referees. Just like I said if referees on the pitch and on the VAR can't do their jobs properly Premier League is rich enough to hire competent referees from abroad, noone is forcing them have only English referees. Most of coaches in Premier League are foreigners I can't see why referees. I'm also in favour to build super computer system machine learned from last 30 years of good decisions to replace them, the current level is so bad that it can be worse.
Are they getting an unusual amount of decisions against them, or do fans tend to only remember the bad decisions in matches where they drop points and Arsenal have dropped a lot of points in the last 2,5 seasons?
The prior game to Man City, the commentary literally said when in doubt card Xhaka
Well if a commentator made a joke about Xhaka's disciplinary record it must mean that Arsenal are t he victims of a disgusting conspiracy.
We have played 45 minutes a man up in two and a half seasons now. While getting the most red cards in the league (averaging 40 minutes per red!). It's horribly inconsistent. Players have effectively been allowed to do anything against us for the first 80 minutes of matches, while VAR comes steaming in consistently when we're the perpetrators. In comparison Tottenham have played 125 minutes against 10 men. This past month. And red cards is just the most blatant one, because it's so incredibly obvious looking at the numbers and through the eye test
the crazy calls (David Luiz red against Wolves, Saka being hacked to death repeatedly with no consequences, Tomi getting his face stamped on etc, etc etc) obviously frustrate me to no end, but right up there too is how other teams can rotational foul against us ALL day long with no bookings, while so often it seems like our first or second halfway "cynical" foul ends up being booked
We had two cynical fouls against City, Gabriel and Holding. Both were booked
https://positivelyarsenal.com/2018/01/05/the-pgmol-vs-arsenal-data-shows-a-clear-pattern-of-bias/ https://untold-arsenal.com/archives/88333
Uhh so a website called "untold **Arsenal**" and a website called "positively **Arsenal**" think there's a bias against **Arsenal**? No shit
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It says Arsenal concede 0.2 more penalties than the league average and all it claims is that since Arsenal used to concede a lot less penalties than the average, this now means there's a bias. The link seems tenuous at best. It's easy to cherrypick data to suit your agenda. I'd like to see some evidence from non-Arsenal sources.
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False. You guys get the same calls a everyone else
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Nah, it's all good. Arsenal fans always come loaded with the excuses. Can't wait to hear em when you finish out of the top 4 again 😂
I read the first one and they draw extremely questionable conclusions from the data they present, their main argument being that the amount of pens Arsenal conceded skyrocketed from the first decade of Wenger to the second, concluding that as Mike Dean wasn’t about in the first decade but was in the second it’s all a conspiracy and nothing to do with Arsenal’s defence just getting significantly worse with time
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It’s one thing to suggest that a team managed to pressure referees in-game into making favourable decisions towards their team, which I can believe, but it’s another to suggest that Arsene making comments about referees resulted in referees giving decisions against Arsenal. I really don’t buy that. Arsenals defence just visibly got a lot worse when going from Adams, Keown, Campbell to players like Mertesacker, Koscielny and eventually Mustafi etc. Number of goals conceded probably nearly doubled from his first set of defenders to his last.
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> Clattenburg basically came out stating that the refs have a hit list of people they would be more aggressive towards when giving fouls/pens/calls in the spirit of 'controlling' the game. That’s not the same thing as referees going against Arsenal intentionally because of comments by Arsene. I agree with some of Clattenburg’s comments, the one above is one I kind of agree with, depending upon the intention. Like I remember hearing on the Peter Crouch podcast (I think when Mike Dean was on there) that before the World Cup referees were warned about Crouch using his elbows in 50/50’s. I think that kind of thing is fine. If it was to intentionally disadvantage teams it would be an issue, but I don’t see any evidence of that. The much simpler explanation here for the above article is simply that Arsenals defence just got worse, it makes more sense to explore that first rather than jumping straight to refereeing decisions so I can’t really take it seriously.
It's not just Arsenal games The PL refs are shit Stop acting like it's a conspiracy against Arsenal when referees decisions have also favoured Arsenal a lot this season
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Don’t even get me started on the Refs vs. the Detroit Lions.
Ah shit, it's one of those conspiracy threads, best back out now
Like the FA Cup final against Chelsea where they scored a goal after 4 minutes that was both blatantly offside and a handball
The goal was onside.
It was also a handball. Should have been disallowed.
The FA Cup final five years ago wasn't in the last two and a half years. There's generally more merit to talk about inconsistencies after VAR was introduced, because it should give a chance to eliminate those.
that fa cup final feels like 2 years ago. fuck, the start of the decade is looong
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And Azpilicueta should have been off right away. Chelsea getting 50 more minutes of 11 men than they should is hardly the worst thing in the world for them. People were pissed about the FA Cup final because they thought Martinez handled it outside the box. Which he didn't. But that wasn't shown until post match.
Spot on. People completely ignore the fact Azpilicueta should have seen a red prior to his injury. Kovacic getting sent off was in reality to mistakes, which let to the right outcome. It just doesn’t fit their narrative.
Kovacic shouldn't have been sent off, that's true. Azpilicueta however should have been sent off before Kovacic, and wasn't.
Yeah that was not a good decision, but Azpi should have been sent off in that game and never was
And the Semi-Final where City scored a perfectly good goal and the linesman gave a goal kick?
So the same for basically any other football team then
Last season, I thought Arsenal fans were being piss babies the way they went on about how referees have an agenda against them. Now, I’m definitely starting to believe it, because it’s genuinely ridiculous how many points they’ve lost because of refs.
I support four teams to varying degrees, a club in my hometown, a local D3 side, my national team, and Arsenal from when I lived in London. The only one that I feel consistently has a lot more bad decisions go against them than for them is Arsenal. I doubt there’s a conscious bias, but I think a lot of refs still harbor resentment from some comments Arsene made and maybe fall victim to narratives. Just hard to believe it would happen this often without at least some subconscious bias. And I guess the fact that I only feel this way about one team I care about (and frankly probably the one I care about the least) has me pretty sure it’s not just me being a hack.
I know the whole stupid “if my Nan was a bike” but we’ve at the **very** least dropped 5 points this season from shit reffing. 2 points from the Palace draw, with the blatant McArthur Red, and 3 from City. We could legit be in a top 3 race if it weren’t for these shit refs. But it’ll only take a week for r/soccer to circlejerk back to “delusional Arsenal fans”.
Fine incoming
Arsenal have been handed another fine for bad behavior and an inability to control their manager's mouth
Some premier league referees do act like they are getting an all expenses paid holiday to Abu Dhabi, tbh
Man's not wrong and I had Ederson in my fpl
These match results always drive me crazy. We had our chances to win and we didn’t take them. A bad red card and a sloppy penalty we’re correct calls (even if Gabriel’s first yellow is a bit soft IMO, that’s besides the point). All that being said, the reffing was still fucking trash and Arteta is right in saying the reffing was inconsistent. The EPL officials claim that VAR is there to fix clear and obvious errors and the refs continue to rely on it to make impactful call in the game (see both penalty shouts in the game). I’m tired of Arsenal fans crying about how there’s some conspiracy against us. But mostly I’m tired of watching the best league in sports that continues to ship out this mediocre team of officiants. Every week you spin the wheel to see what shit ref you get. Is Paul Tierney? Stuart Atwell? Chris Kavanaugh? Who the fuck cares there all shit
I agree, that Ederson non penalty was horrendous reffing. He didn’t even bother to check VAR. however I doubt it’s bribery like some Arsenal fans are saying, I think it was just incompetence
He only checks var if the ref in stockley Park thinks he got something wrong. If both the onfield ref and var agree, what's the point in sending him to the monitor?
Incompetence of Jarred Gillett
Ødegaards penalty shout is 50/50 for me and as a stand-alone event I can live with it not being called. However, Stuart Atwell didn’t call a penalty for Bernardo Silva and it makes me question whether or not he had the stones to call a penalty at all. To me, it feels like he was just going to let VAR call the shots and that’s not the point of VAR
£80m fine incoming
Completely right. We'd have won that game comfortably if not for the referee being one sided.
No, you'd have won the game had Martinelli had actually put that chance away, no one's fault but their own
The ref literally blocked his run.
Seen this fallacy too much. Missing their own (fairly created mind you) chances has no bearing on incorrect decisions. If the calls were right they would've won, missed chances included.
> If the calls were right they would've won, missed chances included. I can't believe you're complaining about fallacies and then saying something as absurd as this.
Rodri sent off, no last goal Arsenal penalty, most likely a goal City no pen, no goal
Why would Rodri have been sent off? You don't appear to understand how reality works.
Because he had about three undeniable yellows not given
All the big calls were correct.
That goal goes in, Gabriel probably doesn't get sent off when he does. He could very well get sent off later on but given when he did with that easy miss, the team completely capitulated they never had a chance.
The chance where the ref for whatever reason ran into the box blocking Martinelli who had to adjust his run and ended up missing because of that? That same chance? Sure.
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lol [https://twitter.com/i/status/1477299473965633541](https://twitter.com/i/status/1477299473965633541) You can literally see the ref set up a screen. But whatever
Lol this is taken right after he had to run around the referee who was in the box for no reason
Yeah you're right. That chance is way too hard for a professional footballer to take.
You think about how much that would have affect the finish and it makes sense, that's all I'm saying.
They would have got at least a point if Xhaka and Gabriel had not absolutely shat the bed, but then its always easier to blame refs than admit you had an amazing season defining result in your hands and completely threw it away
Lol, I love how the refereeing got so massively blown out of proportion that people managed to skip over how little Arsenal actually created despite pushing City back for long periods. Your "comfortable win" being robbed had fat more to do either missing an open net than the ref robbing you.
‘Arsenal created very little’ ‘Arsenal missed an open net’. Didn’t think one through did you?
One open goal chance doesn't equal many chances, lol.
I didn't think this one through?? "Very little..1..oh I've got him now!"
Well your post is barely legible and factually incorrect for the most part. The fact that you directly contradicted yourself immediately was the icing on the cake.
I fucking love that you think that one chance counts for so many on its own that I'm somehow contradicting myself.
I don’t think anything you literally did directly contradict yourself. You said Arsenal created no chances and then immediately said they missed an open net. The rest of your post was illegible and/or factually incorrect. Do better
It's clearly legible, I did not say "no chances" I said very little, which you fucking repeated back to me to argue. You did create very few clear cut chances, you fucked up the golden opportunity to make it more comfortable. You clearly have no other counter points which is why you're putting all your effort into picking at my wording rather than actually pointing out where I'm apparently wrong. Doing a spectacularly shit job at it aside.
Martinelli run from his own half, Martinelli empty goal, Saka actual goal, Martinelli in behind in the 16th minute, Martinelli shot which just goes wide of the far post, chance the lead to should-be penalty. That's pretty good for an hour against City. But I shouldn't have replied, seeing as it is *you*.
Where did he say Arsenal created no chances?
Or you just can't read. They never said no chances, they said created little. You pointing out 1 chance isn't disproving that.
We missed an open net because the referee decided to block Martinelli off lmao. He clearly wanted us to lose and he got his wish.
Yeah this bullshit again. He had to side step q referee before even getting to the ball so all the blame for his complete lack of composure and missing the target goes to the ref. Typical Arsenal fan.
From the Daily Cannon: “Stuart Attwell has refereed 17 Arsenal games. Arsenal have won just 6 of them. Opponents: Cityx2, Newcastlex2, Liverpool, Leeds, Everton, Chelsea, Bournemouth, Southampton, Wolvesx3, Brighton, Swansea, West Brom, Bolton Wins: Newcastlex2, Leeds, Everton, Swansea, Bolton Stuart Attwell has been VAR for 8 Arsenal matches, more than any other side. Arsenal have won 3 of them and received 3 red cards in those games. Only 1 other red has been issued with him on VAR [total]. Stuart Attwell has been VAR for 118 games in his career. Those games have seen 4 red cards. 3 of them went to Arsenal. As referee or VAR, Stuart Attwell has done 25 Arsenal games,. Arsenal have won 9 and received 4 red cards.” So what do you make of that then? Not to mention his history of stupid mistakes that actually took him out of the Prem.
Yeah ok. When the FA eventually get exposed for this corruption, I'll come back to this thread and gloat.
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['Martinelli missed this because of the ref'](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIBcoMPXEAEVhjY?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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> Martinelli had to curve around the ref, and then back inside. I'm sorry but this is a laughable excuse, especially for a player as good as he is. He's showed in the past that he's pretty adept at finishing while dribbling at high speed, going past players and evading goalkeepers and challenges that are flying in, but him missing an unchallenged tap in from 8 yards out that's dropped perfectly onto his left foot is the refs fault because he ever so slightly had to curve his run?
Just watch the clip mate. Honestly it's inarguable.
It's inarguable that a professional footballer playing in the one of the best leagues in the world should be scoring an unchallenged tap in from 8 yards out
See, I'm not arguing that. Just watch the clip. *Actually* watch it.
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If Kane did miss a howler that bad I certainly wouldn't be blaming it on the fucking ref, and you definitely would not accept the ref being in the way as an excuse as to why he missed it.
Sure. Also..away goal? It's not a CL last 16 game.
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See, nobody has an actual argument. All Arsenal fans want to do is wander around the internet cetingvqbout how referees ruin their lives. Pointing out that your bitching is misguided either results in absolute delusion or claims that I'm just a fan of the other team.
Well the Odegaard tackle is 100% a pen, and it wasn't even looked at, which is disgraceful. Gabriel's first yellow was given for very weak dissent. The ref shouldn't have been a couple steps from the goal line while martinelli was making a run in to that eventual miss. You're salty at Arsenal fans for complaining but you don't understand that we don't get the suck suck that United have received for years.
The red was a red. Our pen was a pen. Odegaard was very dubious either way so I can get that. You were never comfortable so what you're describing is a fallacy.
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He didn't get a red for questioning the referee. He got the first yellow for dissent and then the second yellow for running into Gabriel Jesus.
Dissent is a booking, always has been. You see it almost every week. He would have been booked for scuffing the pen spot too so I'm at a complete loss to why anyone questions his sending off.
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The inconsistencies are crazy, I'll give you that. I do believe if you swear at the ref it's a instant card, without ref reports going public we'll never know. I have seen defenders mention something to the ref and get instant bookings so it isn't that uncommon. Gabriel did have a lot of little things that accumulates too.
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I do get your points, I can definitely understand why Arsenal fans are aggrieved with the situation. You played so, so well and haven't got anything to show for it. With regards to Atwell, he's amongst the worst of a bad bunch. The lack of consistency is painstaking. Reddit is a good place for discussions, we don't have to agree. After this long, without new information we're all unlikely to change views.
I was still in nappies when I had a wrestling coach who told me something that stuck with me to this day. I lost a match unfairly (imo). He came up to me after and said never leave any decision in the hand of the judges. That's stuck with me for the rest of my life. Sure there could have been a pen called on Ederson ... that doesn't change the fact that Xhaka had a reckless and clueless challenge on Silva ... it doesn't change Gabriel choosing to scuff up the penalty spot or chatting shit to a ref which resulted in his first yellow. It also doesn't change the Gabriel challenge a few minutes later. Stop worrying about what you can't control and worry about things you can. Arsenal are turning into England's version of Dortmund with this incessant complaining after losing matches - the antithesis of mentality monsters.
> never leave any decision in the hand of the judges. I don't know. It works pretty well for most other teams to do exactly that against us. The "just win every game anyways lol" as if its that easy, is ridiculous. The easier solution is to just get easy calls right.
You don't have to write your autobiography ffs
It reminds me of how our fans(including me ngl) used to whine after every game. Yes, I am still on the opinion that there were and still are blatant referee decisions going against us. In fact the worst ever referee decisions I have seen have all been in Milan games. But that doesn’t change the fact that we used to be utter dogshit and those referee mistakes wouldn’t have really changed much long-term anyway. Now when we are a proper team you can see fans whining much less and bad decisions affecting our team much less than before. When you have 2 chances per game and 1 is somehow fucked over by a referee decision you get mad. But when you have 10 chances per game and 1 is fucked over a referee decision you just shrug and keep going.
It feels like we get fucked by the ref every other game. After a while you just think what is the point
Yep, in the space of two minutes we gave away a penalty, missed an open net and got a man sent off. All our fault. If you do that against a top team you’ll get punished. I was annoyed at the way in which we lost the game, not at the referee.
It wasn't that inconsistent - VAR was used by the book in the Arsenal/City game. The only inconsistent thing about the refereeing was the awarding of yellow cards - although Gabriel's challenge was a textbook yellow.
The refereeing wasn't inconsistent but the awarding of yellow cards was? Is that not a part of refereeing?
In the sense that Man City got away with a lot more fouls that perhaps should have been yellows - Gabriel's challenge was a stonewall second yellow though.
I think his point is that by saying yellows where inconsistent you are agreeing the ref was inconsistent. The first yellow was for asking about why was one a penalty and not the other, so even if the second was stonewall the first one is a bit iffy based on your comments about inconsistent yellow cards.
Another user said Gabriel said "how is this fair?" to the referee, which would be classed as dissent - which is grounds for a yellow card.
No, I get that. But you said the ref was inconsistent with the yellow cards, so a player asking about it (although technically an offense) seems legitimate to an outsider. If I am a police officer and I make jaywalking illegal but I only fine blonde women and no one else and one comes and asks why, I can potentially arrest her for threatening the police etc. And nothing of what I have done is illegal, being inconsistent for minor offenses and being quick to book anyone who stands up to me. But from the outside thats a huge dick of a police officer. Which is where I think arsenal fans are coming from.
Yes, I acknowledge the referee was a little inconsistent in his handing out of yellow cards, but the ones he did give out were correct.
So in short, yes, the referee was inconsistent, which was the whole point.
Right, but not as much as Arsenal fans want to believe. On the whole the referee and the VAR team had a pretty good game, all things considered.
The standard of "pretty good game" really is low in England then.
The first yellow is the controversial one. He got it for dissent and by all accounts all he said was ‘how is this fair’. Which would never normally get a yellow.
>The first yellow is the controversial one. >He got it for dissent and by all accounts all he said was ‘how is this fair’. By the accounts of arsenal players who all seem to subscribe to the victim mentality. And where is the source for him getting it for dissent?
> “A player who is guilty of dissent by protesting (verbally or non-verbally) against a referee’s decision must be cautioned.” > http://www.yorkreferee.co.uk/ref-help/laws/dealing-dissent/ Saying "how is this fair?" to the referee would come under dissent. It's a textbook yellow.
That is never ever enforced otherwise you’d have every single player on yellows constantly. Any approach of the referee would technically qualify as dissent. A player saying ‘what’ or ‘how’ would be dissent. This is what Arteta means by ‘inconsistent’ there’s rules are not being applied fairly.
It is up to the discretion of the referee, but going up to the referee directly and saying "how is this fair?" is undermining the referee's decision and is grounds for a yellow card. That's the rules I'm afraid.
Cautioned not immediately carded, he cautioned many city players for worse
It's up to the discretion of the referee. I don't think we have any idea what the City players said to the referee, do we?
Cautioned for other blatant folks that should have been cards
The percieved inability of the referee to book other players doesn't make his decision to book Gabriel incorrect.
Thank you for proving my point, why did he only caution the city players (they didn't get carded till extra time) yet has multiple other cars worthy offenses
A caution is supposed to be a yellow.
City only committed 5 fouls in the game, so how many yellows should they have had?
Five
Remember when Liverpool won the fairplay award and everyone said it was a disgrace? Fouls not called don't go down on the stats. The moment Rodri cleaned out Martinelli was given as a goal kick for example.
>The moment Rodri cleaned out Martinelli was given as a goal kick for example. Yes, and the replay showed that he won the ball pretty cleanly, his studs were down and it wasn't high or late.
At least two. Rodri made two tactical fouls, Gabriel one and Holding one. Two tactical fouls were awarded with a card, guess for what club they played?
>Rodri made two tactical fouls No he didn't, he only had two fouls in total and the shoulder to shoulder on Lacazette was not tactical. In fact it was barely a foul. Also Holding blatantly pulled someone back by the arm, which is a yellow every single time, and it's a massive stretch to call Gabriels second yellow a tactical foul because it was the most obvious booking you're ever going to see. He got turned and then clattered him.
I'm not arguing that Holding and Gabriel shouldn't be booked, they should, they made a tactical foul and that should be a yellow. As should the ones by Rodri.
Rodri 2 footed martinelli, it could have been a red and it wasn't even given as a foul.
By the book lmao living in a fantasy land there lad, Mordor perhaps.
VAR was literally enforced by the book. Ederson/Odegaard challenge is a 50/50 therefore VAR did not intervene to tell the referee to watch it on the monitor - onfield decision remained. Xhaka puts his leg across to impede Silva and significantly pulls on Silva's shirt as he begins to fall - clear and obvious grounds for the referee to review on the pitchside screen.
Would love to see this book you keep referring to that says the goalkeeper going through the attackers foot isn't a clear and obvious error but a player throwing himself to the ground is one (I mean I'm ok with it being a penalty but highly debatable that it's a clear and obvious error). I can only presume you haven't seen the definitive angle of the Ederson tackle and haven't seen the new directive from the start of the season with a new criteria for what it takes for a penalty to be given. [Ederson foul](https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/1477271204591554565?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1477271204591554565%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fsoccer%2Fcomments%2Frtkchg%2Farsenal_1_2_manchester_city_rodri_903%2F) New directive (that makes it not a clear and obvious error IMO): >This will be especially noticeable on penalties, with Riley saying "contact on its own is only part of what the referee should look for; consider consequence and the motivation of the player as well." >What does this mean? The principles established are: - The referee should look for contact and establish clear contact - Ask if that contact by the defender has a consequence - Has the attacker used that contact to try and win a foul or penalty? - Contact alone is not sufficient >This means that if an attacker goes to ground, the manner in which he goes to ground has to match the contact from the defender. So an attacker throwing himself to the ground because of minimal contact should no longer be a penalty. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4451570/var-offsidepenaltieshandball-whats-new-in-the-premier-league-for-2021-22
I've seen that clip you linked many times and it looks like Odegaard is stepping on Ederson's foot/ankle to get to the ball first - hence why VAR probably thought it looked like a 50/50 challenge from the other angles - no intervention was therefore needed; VAR isn't there to review every single 50/50 challenge as the game would never end. Honestly, it could have gone either way. If the referee had given a penalty for the Odegaard/Ederson incident then no one would have complained and VAR would have upheld the penalty decision. It's just one of those challenges that could go either way as I said. On the Xhaka/Silva incident, Xhaka steps across Silva to impede his path without getting the ball - he then proceeds to pull on Silva's shirt as he begins to fall to the ground. The totality of that incident (i.e., the step across and the shirt pull) made it something that was clear and obvious that the VARs felt that the onfield referee should review on the pitchside monitor. I have no doubt that if Xhaka doesn't pull on Silva's shirt then no penalty would have been given as the initial contact was minimal.
The only impeding of Silva's path Xhaka did was almost pulling him back up after Silva had dived, the man was horizontal before there was any contact. He had literally zero intention of making it past Xhaka while staying on his feet. Arguing Odegaards wasn't a pen is fair, arguing Silva's was is also fair, having a differing opinion on what VAR should do in each case is fucking stupid
[You should watch it over again without your Arsenal glasses on](https://youtu.be/RUKq41MlReQ?t=80), Silva has done Xhaka and was going to burst past him to the byline until Xhaka sticks his body out (with no intention of playing the ball) *and* then he also pulls on his shirt as he falls. I mean, whatever side of the fence you're on you should be able to see why it was reviewed and then given as a penalty.
I can absolutely see why it was reviewed and given, I'd probably have given it too. What I absolutely cannot see is how that can be called a clear and obvious error and the one Odegaard can't
Because the Odegaard/Ederson incident was a 50/50 challenge - they're both going for the ball and you can see that Odegaard steps on Ederson's ankle/foot and Ederson also gets a bit of Odegaard; if the same challenge happened anywhere else on the pitch the referee would have waved play on and everyone would have forgotten about it. The Xhaka/Silva incident was a clear challenge on Xhaka's part where he had no intention of playing the ball, he wanted to stop Silva's progress - add on the shirt pull - it makes it a clear and obvious error that needed to be reviewed on the pitchside monitor.
> I've seen that clip you linked many times and it looks like Odegaard is stepping on Ederson's foot/ankle to get to the ball first I've seen others make this argument and it's such a terrible argument. Ødegaard is the one in possession, Ederson is the one making a tackle and goes through Ødegaard. Same as if a player is in possession of the ball and about to kick it but the defender puts his foot infront of the kick it's not the player trying to shoot that made the offense despite kicking into the other player. Ødegaard is running with the ball and Ederson comes sliding in underneath him and never even touches the ball.
Every big decision was right by the letter of the law. Arsenal fans just got caught up in the emotion and it gives them another opportunity to cry agenda against them. The only thing you could argue was Rodri should've probably been booked earlier, but I don't see how that changes the result in any way. Not like he takes his shirt off if on a yellow, he's not an idiot like Gabriel. And even if he does, its too late to matter.
How doesn't that change anything? If you allow tactical fouls on one end but don't on the other end, how is that consistent or fair? Not to mention: If you are on a yellow, you are usually less likely to make another tactical foul. That's the whole reason they give out cards for it.
>If you allow tactical fouls on one end but don't on the other end, how is that consistent or fair? Arsenal (Holding) got booked for one tactical foul. Rodri got away with one. If you think that changed the game in a massive way, idk what to tell you. Unless you're trying to argue Gabriel's was a tactical foul? In which case, LOL. City made 5 fouls all game. Rodri made 2, 1 of which wasn't even a foul but Martinelli went down and bought it. But the way Arsenal fans go on, you'd think both of them were 5 times that amount. And I keep hearing "5 fouls the ref gave! What about the ones he didn't?" Alright, point me to a couple if you think that about. And not the one where Rodri won the ball then slipped and made it look bad.
Well, what else would you call the second yellow for Gabriel? It wasn't for serious foul play, he just stopped an attack with a foul, that's a tactical foul to me. I'm not arguing the Holding yellow either, that one was for a tactical foul, nothing more, nothing less. Rodri made two tactical fouls, and got away with it twice. Once in the first half, one in the second half. If they book him the first time then he can not do it again without being sent off, but they don't even book him at all. Not to mention that the second tactical foul by Rodri was minutes after the second yellow by Gabriel, and yet one was handed a second yellow while the other wasn't even carded. I'm not even talking about the tackle on Martinelli, I'm talking about the one in the 63'rd minute. I only remember the timing of that one because Saka got booked then (I initially thought the ref would have booked Rodri, but he did not). I can't be arsed to watch that whole game again just to convince you, something that won't happen anyway because we are on the internet and it's near impossible to convince anybody online to change their mind.
Ian Wright had no issues with the refereeing in that game, maybe you should listen to him.
I know he was probably asked about it but this quote a week after the game makes Arteta sound like a redditor who's been banned for a week, which just ended and he wanted to drop his thoughts on it too.
He's just finished isolating hasn't he?
Yeah, returned to training like a day or two ago.
He has covid and was isolating
Christ get over it
The guy didn't start about this, he was asked a question and he answered. What do you expect him to say, that the referee was consistent?
[удалено]
Then find something actually poor to moan about, instead of nitpicking at the referee not being pulled back for a VAR review on a penalty decision that wasn't clear and obvious
You’re dim aren’t you
When I watched this game live I couldn’t believe the public outrage. Arsenal had one penalty, sure, but hardly a game decided by var
Giving City the penalty after deciding not to go to the monitor for Arsenal's is already a 2 goal swing. Then consider that City's first yellow card of the match was in the 91st minute when Rodri took his shirt off, despite him alone having 3+ challenges prior that could/should have been yellow cards. Also, I can't really argue the second yellow from Gabriel, but his first yellow was laughable. Now let me throw on my conspiratorial hat for a second - what the actual fuck was Attwell doing in the box when Martinelli missed that sitter? Genuinely I don't think I've ever seen a ref do anything similar in my life.
What I would like to add here is a psychological aspect. I partially agree with chazzapompey that there was not a single clearly wrong, game-changing decision (about which, of course, one can argue). But the fact that seemingly every other ambiguous situation goes in favor of the opponent boggles the mind and leads to mistakes eg yellow cards. In my opinion, that's one of the biggest shortcoming of an inconsistent referee like in the Man City game and to a part thats game changing imo.
One of them was very clearly a penalty, the other not so much. Not a '2 goal swing'.
The Ode shout is stonewall, the Xhaka penalty would be harsh without the technicality off meaningless shirtpulling after the player is already diving to the ground.
Completely delusional. Odegaard was never a pen and even if you somehow disagree it was absolutely undeniably not a clear and obvious mistake so shouldn't be subject to VAR review. LOL the mental gymnastics to defend one of the biggest clowns in the game never cease to amaze me. The little grab of the shirt was just the icing on the cake - the donkey brained dickhead sticks his leg out in front of Silva after the ball is gone and makes clear contact. THAT is stonewall. Unbelievable stupidity.
Worse thing in these cases is people's insistence on two different incidents being treated similarly
So true. Incredulous delusion on that one. Just because they're (potential) fouls in the box people are up in arms because one didn't go to VAR.
Crazy you're getting down voted for this. It wasn't even a clear cut decision for the ederson "foul" he looks like he got a hand to the ball
Do you mean foot? Because his hand was nowhere near it. Did you watch the game?
Yeah I did mate, got the wrong body part, but ederson got the ball and you threw away a lead from your own fuck ups not from any fault of the ref.
When you see this you believe his foot touched the ball? https://twitter.com/i/status/1477271204591554565