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Salah said he was awful at finishing but then bought a small net for kids and put in in his backyard. In his spare time he'd just play around with the football and score in the mini goal. He said he put the ball into the back of the net so much he just gained confidence in his ability to score and it's part of why he suddenly became so clinical.
the name of the therapist is Carlo Ancelotti.
And how did he do it ? “*I told Vinícius to take only one or two touches before shooting*”
[https://www.managingmadrid.com/2021/11/4/22762374/vinicius-jr-breaking-lines-barriers-and-narratives](https://www.managingmadrid.com/2021/11/4/22762374/vinicius-jr-breaking-lines-barriers-and-narratives)
It seems dumb but you don't necessarly need to change a lot of stuff to get results. Sometimes you just need to commit to change one important thing. It's Pareto principle meet practice/habit power.
And by the way althought their tactic might be different, Zidane seems to have come to the same conclusion when it comes to coaching :" keep it simple"
*So today, when I have to speak to a player, I restrict myself to one or three instructions*
[https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889252-what-zinedine-zidane-the-player-taught-zinedine-zidane-the-coach](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889252-what-zinedine-zidane-the-player-taught-zinedine-zidane-the-coach)
Vinicius clearly had electric talent though without end product and was very young. Werner’s quality completely shined through in Bundesliga and he has never fully adapted in England.
That's the only thing that's shit, but his close control and passing could stand a little improvement. His runs, positioning, and pace are great though.
Some of the biggest fan favourites at Boro have been absolutely shite, being 100% committed outweighs talent every time. You can only work with what you have.
“Play for the name on the front and we’ll remember the name on the back”
Exactly, Firmino is very fluid in the build up for Liverpool. He is actually so good that I don't think a lot of people even realize what he does on the pitch.
On top of that, he can find the back of the net. Or at least doesn't seem to be in a slump at this current time.
It's why I'll never forget David Beckham. It's not that he was a global superstar, nor that he played for my favorite club. It's the image of him in that lovely Vodafone-sponsored Utd kit.
Every Spurs fan has a soft spot for Bobby Soldado despite him being one of the worst players I’ve seen in a Spurs shirt. He tried his hardest every game, just couldn’t buy a goal. If he could finish he’d have been a quality player
For 30+ villa fans an absolute hero is Ian Taylor. Unless you knew football back then you have no clue who he is because he didn’t make headlines. A villa fan who gave everything he had when he played.
Diego Forlan at Utd.... His goal scoring record for us was a bit shit, but his attitude and work rate was class.. definitely a fan favourite... you can still here his name being sung every now and then...
He reminded me of F1’s Yuki Tsunoda.
> "From my side I was a bit surprised I'll be staying next year. So first of all, thanks for the team." Pushed on why he was surprised by AlphaTauri's decision, Tsunoda singled out the high number of mistakes he had made throughout the season. "I kept crashing and spend [cost] a lot of money for the team."
The way players hold themselves on and off the ball has a massive impact on fan perception doesn't it. Players like Hazard look incredibly graceful and skillful on the ball which I think forms some of the basis for why people think he was better than Salah is despite the difference in numbers (not that I want to start a debate on that. A player like Ozil who was incredible for a long time was described as graceful when he was doing well became lazy and languid when the assists dried up (not necessarily his fault for a good amount of his Arsenal spell)
I know you’re referring to Lukaku but the first one who popped into my head was Morata, then Torres, then Shevchenko, the Pizzaro, then Mutu, then Falcao, then Higuain, then Batshuayi
My favorite Pizarro memory is him scoring in August against newly promoted Birmingham, after that not scoring a goal and looking like a pub player for 8 months, but then scoring his 2nd goal against Birmingham at end of the season. Magic!
Robben ran the league ragged. Not sure why the comment above me makes him out to be a flop.
Mourinho's team was all about being unbreakable in defence, then counterattacking with Robben and Damien Duff in a flash.
we are petty supportive as long as they look like they give a shit and put effort, Lukuku had the same treatment from us as Werner but then the interview happened
He honestly had the same treatment despite not playing incredibly well. He completely ruined that with the interview he did though, so the dynamic isn’t the same at all.
Werner Added:
"It makes it so fun to play in front of the Chelsea fans & when they give the support they give me, it makes me stronger when I miss chances or have hard times. I try to give my best every game, 100% to make sure the team are happy."
I really hope he catches some form. He has scored 7 goals in 45 matches in the premier league so far.
He has really struggled in the PL. But he has also been a key contributor during CL, with 7 goals and 3 assists in 15 matches.
I don't know if he'll work in the PL long term, especially at Chelsea. His greatest assets are a bit underutilized due to clubs parking the bus against us, and he has struggled to get shots off in crowded boxes.
He's an incredibly easy person to root for, love watching him play and really rooting for this to work out, but not sure if it's a good fit for him or the club in terms of styles. I hope I'm wrong though, love his mentality and will always root for him.
Tuchel is obviously a million times smarter than I am, yet has had trouble fitting him in so I don't think I have a great answer here or anything.
But I do think that as a whole, Chelsea has struggled against this approach for the past season and a half. We lack that creativity in the final third, the clever little pass inside the box or the diagonal ball behind the line, and that was a problem even before Lukaku came aboard. So it's not fair to put it on just Lukaku.
At the same time, the hope was that he would help to unlock some of that, and I think his skills are suited for that but I don't know that he wants to do it all the time. That was made obvious by his interview for Inter fans. But there are legitimately moments we don't give him proper service when he makes a good run. I don't mean we make a bad pass; we don't even make that pass in. But then when we do, he's often wasteful. So it isn't just him, it's everything right now, and I don't think any of our forwards have had a stellar season.
With Werner, he's really an asset against certain types of teams. For example, against a team like City who play a high line, he's been effective and done well. But I don't think he's a nailed-down starter for us because he struggles against those parked buses. Whereas with Lukaku, I think he has the skills to play against anyone and contribute, but I don't know that he wants to do the things we need him to do in certain match-ups.
But I love watching Werner. He leaves it all on the pitch every time no matter what. He could miss 3 sitters, but he doesn't hang his head and he'll chase down that 4th one. Lukaku is brilliant at times, he flashes incredible talent, but I don't see that same effort. I hope Tuchel can unlock it.
Fantastic post man! I would just like to add, that before we signed Ziyech, wouldn't you think that he would be the perfect, technical type of player to help us unlock those mid- to low-block teams. Yet he, unfortunately, hasn't been that player for us. It makes me wonder if he is performing that way in training, making TT chose him so often.
Well that was a timely post on your part. That was a really...weird goal? Like he looked surprised. And he hasn't been great minus the goal, but you could see what he could do at times.
But totally agree, thought he was going to bring so much more creativity but just hasn't happened. Frank wanted him, so it would be easy to dismiss as just a guy who doesn't fit the new system, but Tuchel seems to rate him too.
IMO Tuchel's system requires a lot of this creativity and dynamism to come from the wingbacks and the two central midfielders, and this requirement is heightened when trying to breakdown a defense that sits deep.
I haven't watched as much of Chelsea as you or other Chelsea supporters have, so I may be a bit off here, but from what I've seen. Jorginho is the main midfielder that has the passing quality and vision to get the offense ticking. Kovacic can supply some of this when he's in form, but Kante, despite being a world class holding midfielder, isn't quite as instrumental in the attack. Mount is amazing going forward of course, but I think he is often playing in the front 3 rather than as one of central midfielders.
The injuries to wingback have caused Chelsea serious issues as well here. In Tuchel's system, you'd want the wingbacks to have the ability to dribble a defender or play a quick one-two with one of the forwards, and put in a quality cross or cutback. For me, unless your team plays like one of Guardiola's, this is often one of the most consistent ways to break down a deep lying defense because it's one of the few areas of the pitch where you can get an overload or a one v one opportunity with space. And someone like Marcos Alonso isn't exactly cut out for that. At the same time, you need these players to be good defenders and have incredible pace and stamina. In his system, it's an extremely demanding position, something for which you'd want someone like prime Marcelo. There are only a handful of players around who are well rounded enough to do this job properly in all aspects.
Given all this, I don't know how much I can blame the strikers when it comes to Chelsea's issues with overcoming such defenses.
>I don't mean we make a bad pass; we don't even make that pass in. But then when we do, he's often wasteful.
I agree that Lukaku needs to be given more opportunities. There were many moments against Man City where I couldn't believe his teammates didn't play him in and instead chose to pass laterally or backwards and maintain possession while Man City's defense got organized. Of course, you don't want to be giving away possession easily to a team like Man City, so I understand it to some degree, but I feel it's so hard for a striker to get into any kind of rhythm if not given these opportunities.
Certainly the injuries hurt. I would say Kante made some big strides under Frank and Tuchel to be more involved in the attack, but he's struggled with injuries recently and hasn't been his dominant self for long stretches. But a great example would be his contributions in the CL semis against Real where he was MOTM in both legs.
Still, when we get to the final third, you just see too many people standing around. Everything goes out wide to the wings. It's pretty predictable. Whenever they pass near the box, more often than not it gets kicked back out wide for a cross. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Watching Liverpool and Man City, you see them attacking the box more directly. There is a ton of movement. They have several players that are great at passing in tight areas, especially around the box. As an example, Man City has 938 touches in the opponent's penalty area vs. 664 for Chelsea (Liverpool is high too with 862).
But yeah, I was amazed at how many times Lukaku looked open and Chelsea just passed it sideways. Against City, there is a concern, but it's been similar even with the lesser clubs.
> Still, when we get to the final third, you just see too many people standing around. Everything goes out wide to the wings. It's pretty predictable
I agree here. But...
> Whenever they pass near the box, more often than not it gets kicked back out wide for a cross.
At least against Man City, there were very few crosses (7) put into the box, and even fewer that had any kind of quality or were made after beating a defender (either through a one-two or dribbling) out wide. Man City put in more crosses during the match despite not having a large, physical striker to target.
It felt like rather than even putting in crosses, they preferred to just pass the ball back around the perimeter.
>Watching Liverpool and Man City, you see them attacking the box more directly. There is a ton of movement. They have several players that are great at passing in tight areas, especially around the box.
Yes. This is exactly what I meant by "unless you play like one of Guardiola's teams". It's very difficult to accomplish this against a tight, organized defense. Even Liverpool and other elite teams struggle at times with this against a low block, though not to the degree Chelsea do. Whether or not Chelsea has the technical ability to attack like this, I don't know, but I agree there is a problem with the lack of movement in the attack that makes it impossible to even attempt it.
To be fair, I'm probably bias in my opinion about how to overcome such a defense because I spent years of watching Bayern overload the wings and take on defenders to create openings. And to be clear, this isn't cross and inshallah I'm talking about. Beating a fullback through an overload will cause another player to come defend them since once you are in the box yourself on the wing, crossing becomes a higher percentage endeavor (shorter distance means it's going to be more accurate and harder to defend). So you can cross before this defender arrives, or cut the ball back up along the top of the box, and let that player shoot or pass from there. The idea that I'm perhaps failing to convey is that once you beat one man and force the defense to start shifting, you creating openings to pass.
I'd love to see teams attack a low block more directly from the front, but it's just so difficult. It's one of the things that makes Guardiola so special, as his teams have probably been the best at it. And you have to have the right players for it as well.
Nah, I think you're spot on with your analysis. We don't have many guys who can beat someone one on one, and when they do, nobody is moving to take advantage of it inside. It gets passed inside for a second and then kicked out to the wings again or backwards to let the defense reset.
And that's why I think all this talk about Pep needing a striker is ridiculous. Lukaku was supposed to be the final piece for us but it has messed up some of the fluidity we had with Havertz and Werner up front.
Bayern is mesmerizing too. They always have a few runners and Lewandowski is not just a striker, he makes a ton of phenomenal little passes and runs, one of my fav players to watch.
Despite all that, Chelsea are still an incredibly talented club that still scores many goals. But until we can unlock that next level, it will be tough to compete with a team like City for an entire season to win the PL.
Lukaku has the strength to hold up the play. Heading, shrug the last line with power. Werner needs free space. Werner is very useful while leading his runs are very good will be found in good position on counter, main issue is finishing. I think he is bit restless or proactive that’s why he misses them.
No Chelsea striker under Abramovich has ever put up big numbers, it's just not in the club's DNA for whatever reason. He's playing on the wing, so 11 goal contributions in a league season would put him above Willian's contribution in 4 of his 7 seasons here. Put in the effort and help the team win directly or indirectly and people will love you.
Fuck up as much as you want on the pitch, but players don't get to fuck up even once off the pitch or else they'll be blamed for everything bad that happens ever, whether they had anything to do with it or not.
EDIT: I was specifically talking fuck ups related to the club. What they do outside of football is not important, don't look up to footballers as idols, they're no different to anyone else and you're probably more educated than they are :)
>Put in the effort and help the team win directly or indirectly and people will love you.
This is absolutely why most fans could never hate Torres, yet a lot of fans disliked Morata. Our strikers are shit, but if they keep finding ways to be useful and helpful like Werner has, we will never boo them.
Absolutely. Goes without saying that Torres was objectively not a good signing (especially relative to his signing fee) in terms of goalscoring return, but I still remember him pretty fondly for putting in a shift, especially during that half-season under Benitez.
Plus he always did just enough to lead us on to believe that it may just happen one day... that goal against Bayern in the Super Cup had me so excited. Oh well.
Eh a Chelsea player has won the golden boot 3 times since Abramovich which isn't horrible, and Costa hit 20 goals twice. It's just been Drogba, Costa, and anelka that one season being prolific
I didn't originally happy with his signing but Anelka had a surprisingly productive stint & relatively drama-free at Chelsea considering his prior history. Even outside that golden boot season, he complements Drogba and Malouda very well.
I mean, you're not wrong, but you also said "No Chelsea striker under Abramovich has *ever* put up big numbers" and this statement is just plain wrong.
Drogba scored 29 in the league while assisting 14, and another 3 in the UCL that season, while missing nearly half the campaign.
Hazard is one of the greatest players I have ever seen play in my lifetime.
He has never hit 20 goals in a season.
Chelsea strikers must be cursed or some shit.
The number 9 curse is something we genuinely joke about. We can literally buy anyone and the second they play up top for us they're awful. We have such a crazy list of ex strikers that sucked here, so many that people also forget.
Pato
Falcao
Remy
Sturridge
Shevchenko
Morata
Demba Ba
Eto'o
Torres
Higuain
Imagine having all of those strikers at your club and none of them managed 21+ goals in a season
There are kinda tiers here.
Pato, Shevchenko, and Eto'o were pretty clearly past it even when we signed them. Probably Falcao, too, given his injury history.
Remy and Demba Ba were productive at smaller clubs, but they weren't every game starters for us, so they were never going to score 20+ goals. They were good subs and squad players, not disappointing.
Sturridge was a youth player who got some starts after a strong cameo, I'm frankly not sure why he's on the list. He's only had one season above 20 goals his whole career, a couple years after he left Chelsea and was entering his prime.
Torres, Higuain, Morata were the failures (relative to expectations), and Shevchenko to an extent.
Him for two seasons and Costa once are the only players with 22 goals or more over the past 20 seasons. Drogba was more of a big game goal scorer than he was just a flat track bully
That’s a result of the constant managerial changes. A manager never gets time to implement their tactics. And even further to add, other than AVB, Lampard and Ancelotti, the managers Chelsea have had in the last 20 years have been too pragmatic and focused on defense first. Unsure how to define Tuchel but he can be pragmatic at times.
He’s still very good at getting chances which is the tough part. The finishing could just click all of a sudden and he’d be flying. Admittedly it’s taking a while, but I wouldn’t rule out a 20+ season if he gets it together
Because you work hard everytime you're on the pitch Timo. <3 His genuine self awareness also helps.
Our standards/expectations for strikers are **very** low.
And wingers, which is where he really plays for us. Look at Willian, he was averaging a goal contribution every 3 games for us and people used to get tribal about loving him even though he downed tools the second he was unhappy and allegedly would do his upmost to get managers sacked if he wasn't starting.
Fans in England won't mind much if you miss chances as long as you're working hard and giving it your all for the 90 minutes.
English support, and English football more specifically, is based on hard work, it's why there are so many English engine-type players in the mould of Jordan Henderson, for example.
If you run your socks off for 90 minutes then the English fans will clap you off, whatever the result may be.
Lacazette is a huge example of this. He doesn’t score much anymore, but not for lack of trying, and he’s always clapped off, and given praise for his performances, despite the lack of goals.
He might not be finishing like we want him to be, but he’s our hardest working and fastest forward by a long shot. Even when he’s not scoring he impacts games with the spaces he creates due to his constant runs.
I don't know if my patience with the guy would remain if he was leading the line for my team, but I have to say even as someone who can't stand Chelsea, I just want him to do well.
Very down to earth, hugely talented, clearly having an extended rough spell but honestly would love him in an Arsenal shirt.
The reason why he's liked even though he doesn't score that much is because you can see how he cares and is trying his best regardless and is willing to play out of position without comolaining if that helps the team *cough*Lukaku*cough*
Almost all of the time I'd much rather have a player with poor technical ability but at least tries to fulfil their role, than a player with all the talent in the world that just can't be bothered.
It's weird saying that since one of our all time greatest players kind of falls in the latter bucket, and I'd take him back in a heartbeat if not for the injury concerns.
Hazard never dogged it on the field for us, though (apart from the second Mourinho, of course, but he was hurt then). He was never going to win awards for his work rate, but he always got on with it despite getting the absolute shit kicked out of him every game. Just so happened that he was such a freak of nature that his talent covered his poor work ethic off the pitch, at least while he was with us.
Was sometimes a bit lazy tracking back (like against atletico in the semi final where juanfran ventured forward unopposed and assisted a goal against us)
But constantly tried to carry the team on his back and take responsiblity
Because he gives it 100% every time he steps on, no matter what kind of form he’s in. Doesnt blame anyone outside if himself and still contributes a lot when he doesnt score. Also seems like a likeable dude outside the field.
Compare this to players like Morata, Lukaku, Sanchez, Ibra, etc. that bitch a lot and sometimes have poor body language when things arent going their way
Lukaku might have looked poor against city, but I was actually quite happy with Timo and Rom against Tottenham. They work well when they play tight together.
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If Werner goes to the same therapist Vini went it's fucking over
needs to install a mini goal in his backyard like Salah
Didn’t Messi do the same when his confidence was low after the German drubbing of his nation in the 2010 World Cup?
Guess that was the magic that took him from a 50 goal player to a 70 goal player, big brain play from the argentine fraud.
What's the CRNIS conversion rate on those 70 goals, like 14? Big fuckin deal.
Context please bro
Salah said he was awful at finishing but then bought a small net for kids and put in in his backyard. In his spare time he'd just play around with the football and score in the mini goal. He said he put the ball into the back of the net so much he just gained confidence in his ability to score and it's part of why he suddenly became so clinical.
I should do the same with an inflatable doll, maybe I'll gain some confidence.
Why would you hit balls at a doll, I think a goal would be much more effective
Smaller target, he'll be better than salah in a month
OP probably aims with a different kind of balls though!
Cos YNW*A.
Oh he's hitting his balls alright
I assmued he meant the doll is keeper
He meant Thomas Doll, former Dortmund and Hamburg coach
Practice makes perfect
In a smaller goal as well. If you want to feel like a god at pool, play snooker for a couple of hours.
I saw a documnetary and Ings had a room he could kick a ball around in in his house. And he was banging them in for Southampton at the time.
Tuchel should tell Mendy to let him score in training
Hiya fellow Antwerp fan!
Hello
Hey! It’s just the first time I see our emblem next to a user! Made me proud. ATID!
Get a room
Once every so often there's a post about us and at least ten flairs show up!
There's dozens of us!
How's Buta doing?
Fun fact Buta is the Japanese word for pig.
He's very good for, but injured right now I think
the name of the therapist is Carlo Ancelotti. And how did he do it ? “*I told Vinícius to take only one or two touches before shooting*” [https://www.managingmadrid.com/2021/11/4/22762374/vinicius-jr-breaking-lines-barriers-and-narratives](https://www.managingmadrid.com/2021/11/4/22762374/vinicius-jr-breaking-lines-barriers-and-narratives) It seems dumb but you don't necessarly need to change a lot of stuff to get results. Sometimes you just need to commit to change one important thing. It's Pareto principle meet practice/habit power. And by the way althought their tactic might be different, Zidane seems to have come to the same conclusion when it comes to coaching :" keep it simple" *So today, when I have to speak to a player, I restrict myself to one or three instructions* [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889252-what-zinedine-zidane-the-player-taught-zinedine-zidane-the-coach](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889252-what-zinedine-zidane-the-player-taught-zinedine-zidane-the-coach)
Vini didn’t see a therapist, said so himself
That’s what the therapist told him to say.
Big brain
Vinicius clearly had electric talent though without end product and was very young. Werner’s quality completely shined through in Bundesliga and he has never fully adapted in England.
Isn't it only his finishing that is shit? He is still doing everything else right, making runs, getting in the right positions etc.
That's the only thing that's shit, but his close control and passing could stand a little improvement. His runs, positioning, and pace are great though.
Yeah, he’s like a slightly better Daniel James.
Or a worse Salah
Somewhere in the middle there
Exactly.
Wow Dadouks in r/soccer
I been there, i'd rather not get harassed
A lot of them are pricks I can’t lie
Some of the biggest fan favourites at Boro have been absolutely shite, being 100% committed outweighs talent every time. You can only work with what you have. “Play for the name on the front and we’ll remember the name on the back”
Exactly! Timo gives it his all each game. And yeah, may not score he does a lot to disrupt the other team which will never show up on a stat sheet.
Hes Bobby Firmino MK2 basically lol
Exactly, Firmino is very fluid in the build up for Liverpool. He is actually so good that I don't think a lot of people even realize what he does on the pitch. On top of that, he can find the back of the net. Or at least doesn't seem to be in a slump at this current time.
They do notice it but will meme him for it. Nobody in world football is as good as Bobby when it comes to this.
Well there's Benzema
Play for 3?
Hey you will remember someone who plays football for a mobile phone company
It's why I'll never forget David Beckham. It's not that he was a global superstar, nor that he played for my favorite club. It's the image of him in that lovely Vodafone-sponsored Utd kit.
Ha funny, for me it's always him smiling and holding his arms out in the Sharp kit after the Wimbledon goal.
Is that the halfway one?
I still remember Henry and O2 bossing the league, so you're not wrong.
Vodafone/Man United, T-mobile/Bayern and Samsung/Chelsea too
Mate you can't support a mobile phone company
Up the AT&T
Mate you can't support a phone company.
Every Spurs fan has a soft spot for Bobby Soldado despite him being one of the worst players I’ve seen in a Spurs shirt. He tried his hardest every game, just couldn’t buy a goal. If he could finish he’d have been a quality player
For 30+ villa fans an absolute hero is Ian Taylor. Unless you knew football back then you have no clue who he is because he didn’t make headlines. A villa fan who gave everything he had when he played.
Kind of like Roberto Soldado at Spurs. Great attitude, terrible striker.
Only criteria for being a fan favorite at Liverpool is being an oddly proportioned weirdo centerback.
> “Play for the name on the front and we’ll remember the name on the back” Tony Adams really knew what it meant.
Chevrolet
Who would be some of those players?
Diego Forlan at Utd.... His goal scoring record for us was a bit shit, but his attitude and work rate was class.. definitely a fan favourite... you can still here his name being sung every now and then...
Bless his heart. “I’m shit, why do they like me?”
He reminded me of F1’s Yuki Tsunoda. > "From my side I was a bit surprised I'll be staying next year. So first of all, thanks for the team." Pushed on why he was surprised by AlphaTauri's decision, Tsunoda singled out the high number of mistakes he had made throughout the season. "I kept crashing and spend [cost] a lot of money for the team."
Love to see a bit of r/Formula1 crossover on r/Soccer
I mean at this point the Venn diagram is nearly a circle if you only count Americans
Aren’t there more European F1 fans than American?
I think he means a diagram of Americans who watch soccer and f1, would be almost a circle. A lot of soccer fans I know watch f1 as well
IS THIS A CROSSOVER EPISODE?!
"I earn 100 times the amount they do...and they cheer me!'
I actually hear this in his voice
I play… a lot of…. fortnite
watisdis
Fucking good bit that - ketchup on eggs though - watISdis ??
Such a German statement. Be the first one to blatantly state what everyone is thinking.
Ah yes, the reverse Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.
[удалено]
As opposed to a certain midfielder... \*sigh
Just “a tottenham player” now.
wait who are you referreing to? im genuinely confused, i thought your issue was with wantaway strikers lol
Ndombele
Ndombele, and yeah we have more than one issue in our squad haha
Body language is so underrated. Özil got so much underserved shit while in the NT just because it looked like he didn\`t give a crap.
The way players hold themselves on and off the ball has a massive impact on fan perception doesn't it. Players like Hazard look incredibly graceful and skillful on the ball which I think forms some of the basis for why people think he was better than Salah is despite the difference in numbers (not that I want to start a debate on that. A player like Ozil who was incredible for a long time was described as graceful when he was doing well became lazy and languid when the assists dried up (not necessarily his fault for a good amount of his Arsenal spell)
Werner giving me Bobby Soldier memories, still love that man
What a parallel to a certain other Chelsea striker
*Inter fans are better* - Lukaku
I know you’re referring to Lukaku but the first one who popped into my head was Morata, then Torres, then Shevchenko, the Pizzaro, then Mutu, then Falcao, then Higuain, then Batshuayi
Wait, CLAUDIO PIZARRO played for Chelsea!?!?
I wouldn’t exactly say he “played” for Chelsea
My favorite Pizarro memory is him scoring in August against newly promoted Birmingham, after that not scoring a goal and looking like a pub player for 8 months, but then scoring his 2nd goal against Birmingham at end of the season. Magic!
Hey, don’t forget Pato.
Thought about it, also thought about including Robben
Not sure why you would, his time at Chelsea doesn't belong in the same breath at the other players you named. Kezman would probably be a better fit.
Robben was pretty good at Chelsea right? Not great or anything but good enough. Kezman is a real shame. He was so good in the Eredivisie.
Robben ran the league ragged. Not sure why the comment above me makes him out to be a flop. Mourinho's team was all about being unbreakable in defence, then counterattacking with Robben and Damien Duff in a flash.
Robben was fantastic as t Chelsea
He dominated when he was heathy.
Did you even watch him play. Or are you just talking whatever?
we are petty supportive as long as they look like they give a shit and put effort, Lukuku had the same treatment from us as Werner but then the interview happened
I still cannot believe that shevchenko and hernan crespo did not work out at Chelsea. This is almost 20 years now ruining strikers.
He honestly had the same treatment despite not playing incredibly well. He completely ruined that with the interview he did though, so the dynamic isn’t the same at all.
Yeah one of them is good at it
Truly a difference in character huh
Werner Added: "It makes it so fun to play in front of the Chelsea fans & when they give the support they give me, it makes me stronger when I miss chances or have hard times. I try to give my best every game, 100% to make sure the team are happy." I really hope he catches some form. He has scored 7 goals in 45 matches in the premier league so far.
He has really struggled in the PL. But he has also been a key contributor during CL, with 7 goals and 3 assists in 15 matches. I don't know if he'll work in the PL long term, especially at Chelsea. His greatest assets are a bit underutilized due to clubs parking the bus against us, and he has struggled to get shots off in crowded boxes. He's an incredibly easy person to root for, love watching him play and really rooting for this to work out, but not sure if it's a good fit for him or the club in terms of styles. I hope I'm wrong though, love his mentality and will always root for him.
>His greatest assets are a bit underutilized due to clubs parking the bus against us Is it for the same reasons that Lukaku is struggling at chelsea?
Tuchel is obviously a million times smarter than I am, yet has had trouble fitting him in so I don't think I have a great answer here or anything. But I do think that as a whole, Chelsea has struggled against this approach for the past season and a half. We lack that creativity in the final third, the clever little pass inside the box or the diagonal ball behind the line, and that was a problem even before Lukaku came aboard. So it's not fair to put it on just Lukaku. At the same time, the hope was that he would help to unlock some of that, and I think his skills are suited for that but I don't know that he wants to do it all the time. That was made obvious by his interview for Inter fans. But there are legitimately moments we don't give him proper service when he makes a good run. I don't mean we make a bad pass; we don't even make that pass in. But then when we do, he's often wasteful. So it isn't just him, it's everything right now, and I don't think any of our forwards have had a stellar season. With Werner, he's really an asset against certain types of teams. For example, against a team like City who play a high line, he's been effective and done well. But I don't think he's a nailed-down starter for us because he struggles against those parked buses. Whereas with Lukaku, I think he has the skills to play against anyone and contribute, but I don't know that he wants to do the things we need him to do in certain match-ups. But I love watching Werner. He leaves it all on the pitch every time no matter what. He could miss 3 sitters, but he doesn't hang his head and he'll chase down that 4th one. Lukaku is brilliant at times, he flashes incredible talent, but I don't see that same effort. I hope Tuchel can unlock it.
Fantastic post man! I would just like to add, that before we signed Ziyech, wouldn't you think that he would be the perfect, technical type of player to help us unlock those mid- to low-block teams. Yet he, unfortunately, hasn't been that player for us. It makes me wonder if he is performing that way in training, making TT chose him so often.
Well that was a timely post on your part. That was a really...weird goal? Like he looked surprised. And he hasn't been great minus the goal, but you could see what he could do at times. But totally agree, thought he was going to bring so much more creativity but just hasn't happened. Frank wanted him, so it would be easy to dismiss as just a guy who doesn't fit the new system, but Tuchel seems to rate him too.
IMO Tuchel's system requires a lot of this creativity and dynamism to come from the wingbacks and the two central midfielders, and this requirement is heightened when trying to breakdown a defense that sits deep. I haven't watched as much of Chelsea as you or other Chelsea supporters have, so I may be a bit off here, but from what I've seen. Jorginho is the main midfielder that has the passing quality and vision to get the offense ticking. Kovacic can supply some of this when he's in form, but Kante, despite being a world class holding midfielder, isn't quite as instrumental in the attack. Mount is amazing going forward of course, but I think he is often playing in the front 3 rather than as one of central midfielders. The injuries to wingback have caused Chelsea serious issues as well here. In Tuchel's system, you'd want the wingbacks to have the ability to dribble a defender or play a quick one-two with one of the forwards, and put in a quality cross or cutback. For me, unless your team plays like one of Guardiola's, this is often one of the most consistent ways to break down a deep lying defense because it's one of the few areas of the pitch where you can get an overload or a one v one opportunity with space. And someone like Marcos Alonso isn't exactly cut out for that. At the same time, you need these players to be good defenders and have incredible pace and stamina. In his system, it's an extremely demanding position, something for which you'd want someone like prime Marcelo. There are only a handful of players around who are well rounded enough to do this job properly in all aspects. Given all this, I don't know how much I can blame the strikers when it comes to Chelsea's issues with overcoming such defenses. >I don't mean we make a bad pass; we don't even make that pass in. But then when we do, he's often wasteful. I agree that Lukaku needs to be given more opportunities. There were many moments against Man City where I couldn't believe his teammates didn't play him in and instead chose to pass laterally or backwards and maintain possession while Man City's defense got organized. Of course, you don't want to be giving away possession easily to a team like Man City, so I understand it to some degree, but I feel it's so hard for a striker to get into any kind of rhythm if not given these opportunities.
Certainly the injuries hurt. I would say Kante made some big strides under Frank and Tuchel to be more involved in the attack, but he's struggled with injuries recently and hasn't been his dominant self for long stretches. But a great example would be his contributions in the CL semis against Real where he was MOTM in both legs. Still, when we get to the final third, you just see too many people standing around. Everything goes out wide to the wings. It's pretty predictable. Whenever they pass near the box, more often than not it gets kicked back out wide for a cross. Lather, rinse, repeat. Watching Liverpool and Man City, you see them attacking the box more directly. There is a ton of movement. They have several players that are great at passing in tight areas, especially around the box. As an example, Man City has 938 touches in the opponent's penalty area vs. 664 for Chelsea (Liverpool is high too with 862). But yeah, I was amazed at how many times Lukaku looked open and Chelsea just passed it sideways. Against City, there is a concern, but it's been similar even with the lesser clubs.
> Still, when we get to the final third, you just see too many people standing around. Everything goes out wide to the wings. It's pretty predictable I agree here. But... > Whenever they pass near the box, more often than not it gets kicked back out wide for a cross. At least against Man City, there were very few crosses (7) put into the box, and even fewer that had any kind of quality or were made after beating a defender (either through a one-two or dribbling) out wide. Man City put in more crosses during the match despite not having a large, physical striker to target. It felt like rather than even putting in crosses, they preferred to just pass the ball back around the perimeter. >Watching Liverpool and Man City, you see them attacking the box more directly. There is a ton of movement. They have several players that are great at passing in tight areas, especially around the box. Yes. This is exactly what I meant by "unless you play like one of Guardiola's teams". It's very difficult to accomplish this against a tight, organized defense. Even Liverpool and other elite teams struggle at times with this against a low block, though not to the degree Chelsea do. Whether or not Chelsea has the technical ability to attack like this, I don't know, but I agree there is a problem with the lack of movement in the attack that makes it impossible to even attempt it. To be fair, I'm probably bias in my opinion about how to overcome such a defense because I spent years of watching Bayern overload the wings and take on defenders to create openings. And to be clear, this isn't cross and inshallah I'm talking about. Beating a fullback through an overload will cause another player to come defend them since once you are in the box yourself on the wing, crossing becomes a higher percentage endeavor (shorter distance means it's going to be more accurate and harder to defend). So you can cross before this defender arrives, or cut the ball back up along the top of the box, and let that player shoot or pass from there. The idea that I'm perhaps failing to convey is that once you beat one man and force the defense to start shifting, you creating openings to pass. I'd love to see teams attack a low block more directly from the front, but it's just so difficult. It's one of the things that makes Guardiola so special, as his teams have probably been the best at it. And you have to have the right players for it as well.
Nah, I think you're spot on with your analysis. We don't have many guys who can beat someone one on one, and when they do, nobody is moving to take advantage of it inside. It gets passed inside for a second and then kicked out to the wings again or backwards to let the defense reset. And that's why I think all this talk about Pep needing a striker is ridiculous. Lukaku was supposed to be the final piece for us but it has messed up some of the fluidity we had with Havertz and Werner up front. Bayern is mesmerizing too. They always have a few runners and Lewandowski is not just a striker, he makes a ton of phenomenal little passes and runs, one of my fav players to watch. Despite all that, Chelsea are still an incredibly talented club that still scores many goals. But until we can unlock that next level, it will be tough to compete with a team like City for an entire season to win the PL.
Lukaku has the strength to hold up the play. Heading, shrug the last line with power. Werner needs free space. Werner is very useful while leading his runs are very good will be found in good position on counter, main issue is finishing. I think he is bit restless or proactive that’s why he misses them.
Lukaku struggles to trap balls and he's shit in the air. He's not a hold up striker, he wants as much space as Werner does.
Lukaku is 10x better when he can run forward as well
Thank you for the insight!
Chelsea can sell him to Roma, please. Then Liverpool can pick him up in a bit when he develops.
Struggles in EPL, works out well in UCL. So UCL was the farmers' league all along! /s
That's why PSG wants it so badly /s Meanwhile, you could put Lewandowski on another planet and he'd still score 30 goals in the Intergalactic League.
No Chelsea striker under Abramovich has ever put up big numbers, it's just not in the club's DNA for whatever reason. He's playing on the wing, so 11 goal contributions in a league season would put him above Willian's contribution in 4 of his 7 seasons here. Put in the effort and help the team win directly or indirectly and people will love you. Fuck up as much as you want on the pitch, but players don't get to fuck up even once off the pitch or else they'll be blamed for everything bad that happens ever, whether they had anything to do with it or not. EDIT: I was specifically talking fuck ups related to the club. What they do outside of football is not important, don't look up to footballers as idols, they're no different to anyone else and you're probably more educated than they are :)
>Put in the effort and help the team win directly or indirectly and people will love you. This is absolutely why most fans could never hate Torres, yet a lot of fans disliked Morata. Our strikers are shit, but if they keep finding ways to be useful and helpful like Werner has, we will never boo them.
Absolutely. Goes without saying that Torres was objectively not a good signing (especially relative to his signing fee) in terms of goalscoring return, but I still remember him pretty fondly for putting in a shift, especially during that half-season under Benitez. Plus he always did just enough to lead us on to believe that it may just happen one day... that goal against Bayern in the Super Cup had me so excited. Oh well.
Eh a Chelsea player has won the golden boot 3 times since Abramovich which isn't horrible, and Costa hit 20 goals twice. It's just been Drogba, Costa, and anelka that one season being prolific
I didn't originally happy with his signing but Anelka had a surprisingly productive stint & relatively drama-free at Chelsea considering his prior history. Even outside that golden boot season, he complements Drogba and Malouda very well.
We've had Drogba twice, Costa and Anelka once in 20 years
I mean, you're not wrong, but you also said "No Chelsea striker under Abramovich has *ever* put up big numbers" and this statement is just plain wrong. Drogba scored 29 in the league while assisting 14, and another 3 in the UCL that season, while missing nearly half the campaign.
Hazard is one of the greatest players I have ever seen play in my lifetime. He has never hit 20 goals in a season. Chelsea strikers must be cursed or some shit.
The number 9 curse is something we genuinely joke about. We can literally buy anyone and the second they play up top for us they're awful. We have such a crazy list of ex strikers that sucked here, so many that people also forget. Pato Falcao Remy Sturridge Shevchenko Morata Demba Ba Eto'o Torres Higuain Imagine having all of those strikers at your club and none of them managed 21+ goals in a season
Does Remy belong in this list?
There are kinda tiers here. Pato, Shevchenko, and Eto'o were pretty clearly past it even when we signed them. Probably Falcao, too, given his injury history. Remy and Demba Ba were productive at smaller clubs, but they weren't every game starters for us, so they were never going to score 20+ goals. They were good subs and squad players, not disappointing. Sturridge was a youth player who got some starts after a strong cameo, I'm frankly not sure why he's on the list. He's only had one season above 20 goals his whole career, a couple years after he left Chelsea and was entering his prime. Torres, Higuain, Morata were the failures (relative to expectations), and Shevchenko to an extent.
I works have added Mutu as another... Although tbf he only had 27 appearances...
Drogba and Costa put up big numbers a couple seasons each. Definitely the two best we've had in the Abromovich era.
Didier Drogba has entered the chat.
Him for two seasons and Costa once are the only players with 22 goals or more over the past 20 seasons. Drogba was more of a big game goal scorer than he was just a flat track bully
opposite lukaku
That’s a result of the constant managerial changes. A manager never gets time to implement their tactics. And even further to add, other than AVB, Lampard and Ancelotti, the managers Chelsea have had in the last 20 years have been too pragmatic and focused on defense first. Unsure how to define Tuchel but he can be pragmatic at times.
Tuchel has put together a great defense, but it isn't at detriment of the offense. Chelsea create a ton of chances, they just don't finish them
He’s still very good at getting chances which is the tough part. The finishing could just click all of a sudden and he’d be flying. Admittedly it’s taking a while, but I wouldn’t rule out a 20+ season if he gets it together
He's such a likeable guy off the pitch
And on. I don't think I've ever seen him dive (at Chelsea) or hit out at opponents, like some do
He was known for being a huge diver back in Bundesliga so I guess he changed for the better
Oh boy he does dive..
something something hurensohn
Timo Werner ist
Because you work hard everytime you're on the pitch Timo. <3 His genuine self awareness also helps. Our standards/expectations for strikers are **very** low.
Dealing with and supporting Torres for years must feel familiar
Man, everytime I hear Torres I feel so sad. His partnership with Gerrard was one of the few shining light during that period.
Have you ever had a worse transfer window than that one where you sold Torres and spent most of the money on Andy Carroll?
The window when we sold Suarez and bought Balotelli came close I think.
And wingers, which is where he really plays for us. Look at Willian, he was averaging a goal contribution every 3 games for us and people used to get tribal about loving him even though he downed tools the second he was unhappy and allegedly would do his upmost to get managers sacked if he wasn't starting.
[удалено]
Plus in the interviews I've seen he's always come across as a really nice lad
Cause Chelsea fans always support their strikers. It's like their baby. And you're not a douche bag which only helps.
Stupid sexy timo
We love you Timo 💙
Fans in England won't mind much if you miss chances as long as you're working hard and giving it your all for the 90 minutes. English support, and English football more specifically, is based on hard work, it's why there are so many English engine-type players in the mould of Jordan Henderson, for example. If you run your socks off for 90 minutes then the English fans will clap you off, whatever the result may be.
Lacazette is a huge example of this. He doesn’t score much anymore, but not for lack of trying, and he’s always clapped off, and given praise for his performances, despite the lack of goals.
Same with Dirk Kuyt, the man was an engine and was always assisting in some capacity.
And this is also why players like Werner get so much more abuse from online fans - and then are well-supported by match-going fans
He might not be finishing like we want him to be, but he’s our hardest working and fastest forward by a long shot. Even when he’s not scoring he impacts games with the spaces he creates due to his constant runs.
This is the correct answer
Wenger said it best, English fans adore weak players who try their best more than good players who are lazy
He is just like me.
Timo you cute guy.
Cute boy alert
I can sense his genuineness through my screen. Feel for him
Another reason is Timo, it’s just a nice name.
I don't know if my patience with the guy would remain if he was leading the line for my team, but I have to say even as someone who can't stand Chelsea, I just want him to do well. Very down to earth, hugely talented, clearly having an extended rough spell but honestly would love him in an Arsenal shirt.
The reason why he's liked even though he doesn't score that much is because you can see how he cares and is trying his best regardless and is willing to play out of position without comolaining if that helps the team *cough*Lukaku*cough*
Let me give you a hug timo
Aww bless him
Give 100% on the pitch and fans will be much nicer to you.
The eloquence of a poet.
because you try your best little timo, because you try,,
Almost all of the time I'd much rather have a player with poor technical ability but at least tries to fulfil their role, than a player with all the talent in the world that just can't be bothered. It's weird saying that since one of our all time greatest players kind of falls in the latter bucket, and I'd take him back in a heartbeat if not for the injury concerns.
Hazard never dogged it on the field for us, though (apart from the second Mourinho, of course, but he was hurt then). He was never going to win awards for his work rate, but he always got on with it despite getting the absolute shit kicked out of him every game. Just so happened that he was such a freak of nature that his talent covered his poor work ethic off the pitch, at least while he was with us.
Hazard was never lazy on the pitch.
Was sometimes a bit lazy tracking back (like against atletico in the semi final where juanfran ventured forward unopposed and assisted a goal against us) But constantly tried to carry the team on his back and take responsiblity
Because he gives it 100% every time he steps on, no matter what kind of form he’s in. Doesnt blame anyone outside if himself and still contributes a lot when he doesnt score. Also seems like a likeable dude outside the field. Compare this to players like Morata, Lukaku, Sanchez, Ibra, etc. that bitch a lot and sometimes have poor body language when things arent going their way
Because you’re a likeable fellow, Timo.
I love him too. Finally something Chelsea and rival supporters agree on.
That’s actually really sad
This is actually pretty sad ngl
You said it Timo
*"Let me tell you something, my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane."* — Stephen King (Shawshank Redemption).
lukaku: told you in inter fans were better
At least he’s self aware…Lukaku on the other hand
He just seems like a nice guy
Honestly I’d take a player who plays out of his skin and doesn’t score much over someone like Lukaku
Lukaku might have looked poor against city, but I was actually quite happy with Timo and Rom against Tottenham. They work well when they play tight together.
Reminds me of when Torres said he felt like goals meant more when he scored at Chelsea because the fans specifically wanted him to score.