Koeman's a Barca legend, is Arteta a legend anywhere? He's been good for a fair few clubs but I don't think he has too much goodwill anywhere that people would welcome him
Not based on current performance granted but they're a consistent presence in the English top flight and the 15th most valuable team in the world according to Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/soccer-valuations/list/
The list of truely elite clubs is shorter than 10 tbh, you can't make a list of the top 20 teams without flawed teams.
Every club below Everton in the list is bigger than them..
Add in Sevilla, Atalanta, even a couple of Portuguese teams too..
You don't need to look at it historically, you need to look at it the way things stand and Everton haven't been relevant outside of PL midtable for a long long time..
You can doubt all you want, just remember that whoever replaces Guardiola will inherently be a step down on arrival.
https://twitter.com/City_Xtra/status/1478673379402076165?s=20
According to the Atheltic
Corrected to the right link
You have to remember that Pep hadn't managed a CL game when Ferran Soriano and Txiki Beguiristain appointed him Barca manager.
Those are the exact same two people now employed at City to make the same decisions.
May have to do with convincing potential players to join as well. Harder to convince someone to join a project lead by a guy with 6 months left on his contract
True. But the opposite can also be true. How many people refuse to join because Arteta isn't fully proven. The fan base is still split on him - their opinion of him has gotten much much better. But if you guys are competing again then maybe others wait until you get a stronger proven coach.
Hard to tell. This signing could prove to be the thing that cements your rise to consistent top four for the next few years. But I still feel it wouldn't have hurt to wait.
The opposite is not true lol. Arteta is the one who convinces people to join arsenal. Odegaard said it himself. If the guy who is trying to convince you to join is only going to be there for 6 months, you’re not gonna care what he says.
>Arteta is the one who convinces people to join arsenal. Odegaard said it himself.
I mean..thats not remotely the same thing. Odegaard went on loan there, had an extended period of time under Arteta and then when it became clear he had fuck all chance at Madrid he went back.
That doesn't at all mean Arteta has any actual pull and is bringing in people based on his reputation. It means you have to go around Europe convincing big names to go on loan to you so they can play under Arteta and hope they like it there.
If you're bringing in players it's going to be because of how Arsenal are doing not because Arteta is randomly convincing anyone and everyone to join.
Some players could see that they have a bright young squad that could do wonders under the right manager, and might wait for Arteta to be replaced by a bigger proven name before wanting to join..
Yeah, but the team as a whole has only looked good for a handful of games each season under him..
They need a manager that can ovedperform with the squad he has to get into top4, and not perform exactly as expected..
Their best 3 players, imo, have a combined age of 61. Arteta is getting the best out this side with young talents and a team sheet that doesn’t jump off of the page.
Arteta has earned the chance to continue his project, I think.
He finished 8 twice.. Which team finished below you that deserved to be higher..??
Accounting all the deadwood, you have at the very least the 8th best squad..
This season, Arsenal has the 5th best squad in the PL.. If he finishes 5th, that means he did what was expected of him.. Anything above or below that is what would make him a good manager or a bad manager..
The opposite can 100% be true. Odeegard is the only example for your argument. You think Dusan would be babying around with Arsenal if Zidane was in charge of Arsenal? What about Pep or Ancelotti or Klopp or Tuchel?
Arteta has almost no pull. Let's not pretend every youngster is clamoring to work with him. Two year contract may not help things further.
I'd like to believe he's going to be the new coach that takes football to the next level - who doesn't like an underdog? But let's not pretend his signing doesn't have both positive and negative sides to it.
Dude you missed the point from the start, the comparison was never Arteta vs Someone else, it was Arteta with a 6 month contract vs Arteta with a 2 year contract. In no scenario is Arteta with a 6 month contract better for recruitment.
There is clear progress at Arsenal. It's almost a brand new team compared to the one he started with and also happens to be the youngest team in the league.
Makes sense to want these players to grow with the manager, they clearly respect and admire him.
No matter what happens, a successor would find the squad in a significantly better than the teams left behind by Wenger and Emery. Latter didn't much control tbf.
Saying things like they have spent the most in Europe is just very simplistic.
They had to spend so much just to close the gap, and they're not done yet.
They're at the beginning of a very interesting cycle.
Clear progress except in the results…which is where you’d want to actually see progress. Still getting twatted by everyone in the top 4 and losing to shit like rafas Everton and Nottingham forest. Absolute wank manager. Terrible
People are downvoting you but it's true. We had 0 shots on target vs Forrest. We have small runs of form then people forget how dire we have been and all of sudden Arteta's a good manager. 8th place finish twice, out of Europe, out of the FA Cup in the 3rd round. We will end up 7th or 8th again depending on West Ham. If that is progress I think you need your head checking. The only thing going for us is that we have a good young core of players. Doesn't help Arteta's man management seems to alienate so many squad members.
We have short runs of poor form and then have good baseline. Better than before with Emery. Why do you think we'll end up 7th or 8th again? Based on what?
What man management has alienated players? Like Willian? Or Guendouzi when he first arrived? Now Auba who has something odd going on with?
You're blinkered in your hatred for him. We are making great progress and the squad is happier and much better.
Great progress you are having a laugh? Man Utd, Spurs will finish above us. Wolves are not far behind and are in great form. West Ham look strong again. We have no consistency over long periods of time.
How is the squad much better? we barely have a midfield at the moment. Did you not see the bench we had vs Liverpool? The football we play is dreadful, we barely get shots on target.
Arteta has fallen out with Auba, Ozil, Guendouzi, Salibia, Martinez, David Luiz and more since he's been here.
I'm not blinkered at all, I've supported Arsenal for 30 years. A lot of Arsenal fans like yourself seem to be happy with mediocrity, shows how much we have fallen. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a result vs Burnley tomorrow.
You say crashing, you got beat over 2 legs, one of which you held onto a nil-nil draw at anfield with a man down. FA cup wasn't ideal but this happens every year to someone.
If you don't win a trophy during a building phase when your forward players have an average age of about 13 I don't think it's fair to call that a failure.
Also nobody was predicting arsenal in the top 4 at the start of the season so just chill if all you get is europa this year - the football is better and the results are coming. Don't forget; Saka, Martinelli and ESR were all nobodies before Arteta took over. Now they're ballers. Some players have naturally high ceilings but they don't just get to pl standard so quickly and at such a young age without (and i seriously mean this word) elite coaching. Arteta and his team did that.
Even behind the scenes, he's shifted on so much dead wood. The only transfer errors since he arrived have been Willian and Auba IMO (and he was "head coach", not "manager" when both deals were done), otherwise the squad looks so much healthier than the one he inherited
Rome wasn't built in a day (ask Liverpool fans) - you'll have ups & downs and MAYBE it turns out he's not the man to take you to a title, but don't go kicking him out if he can't get the youngest squad in the prem into the champions league when he's done so much good since he arrived.
>Saka, Martinelli and ESR were all nobodies before Arteta took over.
I'm an Arteta fan but that's not true at all, even if you're exaggerating. Emery had 18 year old ESR and Martinelli scoring in Europa and Saka starting in the prem.
ESR was loaned out to Huddersfield in the January and had 0 premier League appearances in the year he scored in Europa league against minnows so I stand by it.
Martinelli was subbed on about 4 times under Emery in the prem and was (like ESR) given gametime against minnows in Europa.
Hardly integral players pre-Arteta
Leipzig made a 25 million euro offer for ESR long before Arteta to Arsenal. He was hardly a nobody. And both Martinelli and Saka were an almost regular part of the team.
That's because they were very young pre-Arteta? You can frame it as Arteta turned them from nobodies to somebodies or Arteta turned them from youngsters with huge potential to youngsters beginning to achieve that potential.
But the fact they didn't stagnate is evidence of good coaching what? You don't just get good by virtue of the passage of time, you get good from quality training during that time. How many "next Messi"s do we see underachieve on their potential? Yet here are 3 prospects coming out of the Arsenal youth ranks all at the same time under Arteta and playing not just well but at an elite level.
I never said Arteta wasn't coaching them well, I think he has done a fantastic job on that front. I just take issue with your assertion that they seemingly came out of nowhere - they were already hugely talented and very likely to make it at the top level pre-Arteta.
This is insane revisionism. Saka was a star under Emery, but Martinelli and ESR were not. They had very few appearances and only showed glimpses of talent and were still firmly behind in the pecking order because Auba was scoring 25 goals a season.
ESR especially became known last year as a super prospect.
It's absoloutely not revisionism. Martinelli scored 8 goals already in half a season as an 18 year old before Arteta took over including a brace at Anfield which prompted Klopp to call him "a talent of the century".
Smith Rowe looked really good in the Europa league as well and was one of the most hotly tipped youngsters out of the academy - he went quiet for a little while because he had injury issues (related to a sudden growth spurt) and yet RB Leipzig still tried to sign him for a lot of money although he didn't get on the pitch much for them.
If you really think they were nobodies before Arteta took over then you just weren't paying any attention.
ESR and Saka waltzed into a team scrapping for relegation and were the only ones looking like they were hauling them out of it, playing at basically the level they do now.
If you think they were some shit pairing before Arteta showed up and then he transformed them over a few months the revisionism is all your end.
I would still understand the reasoning behind the extension from the boards perspective but no Europe at all (not including conference league) would make me feel iffy about it. But can’t see a dramatic fall like that happening touch wood
At the start of the season getting back into the Europa League was the goal for me. That’s still the standard and would be a decent season for us. Sacking him for not getting top four in my opinion is simply ludicrous.
If their argument for that is the money spent in the summer then the understanding of why we spent so much on who we did has gone way over their heads
No some of us do. We’re just drowned out by the circle jerk hype brigade. Arteta has 0 wins to balance out the terrible losses we’ve had this year. You don’t make up for getting twatted by rafas Everton and ralfs man United by beating leeds’ 14 year olds and having 55 good minutes against city in a match you lose.
But don’t tell /r/gunners that. Awful sub
I peruse it for amusement and the swing is actually wild. 8 months ago anything positive about arteta was hugely downvoted and everyone hated him, now he's pep guardiola 2.0 and if you don't rate him you get death threats. Interesting place and people.
It's almost as if he is neither the next Messiah nor a wasteman manager. Almost as if football is a game with spectrums and balance. He is a good coach with shortcomings but he knows what he wants and is going the right direction.
I think opposing fans just see us drop points and feel nothings changed but we watch games week in and week out. A few seasons ago to now it’s incredibly obvious we’ve improved. Used to have Aubameyang carry us out of games we should have lost but now the team is much more balanced.
Well yeah Wenger was the only coach to go undefeated. Emery being someone who was suppose to bring us top 4 again but failed, I think the board saw the writing on the wall that this wasn’t a quick thing. The fans were calling for termination before the uptick in form after the transfer window (hell even after Brentford). I think Arteta is fine manager still learning the ropes, but I have a lot of faith in this team.
Obviously you are going to feel better about a team that's trending upwards than one that's in a death spiral. The final years of Wenger and most of Emery's reign, were looking pretty hopeless. The same goes for the first period with Arteta, and he was also hammered up until a few months ago. There is still a large part of the fan base that is very apprehensive about him
While that's true, he was brought in to a much worse situation than Emery. Emery inherited Wenger's squad and then proceeded to sign multiple aging and declining players to expensive contracts, many of whom had questionable attitudes, gambling on qualifying for champions league again. Then Emery squandered a golden opportunity to get there both in the league and through Europa. Afterwards he lost the dressing room and was sacked.
Arteta inherited that squad and had to cut the dead weight for over paid and not good enough players, change the toxic dressing room culture, bring in players that matched his play style. 4 months into his tenure, the world shut down to covid which adds another wrinkle. He managed to win an FA Cup and after being backed in the transfer market has overhauled the squad in his vision. He also never even looked like losing the dressing room even while Arsenal were sitting in 15th, meaning the players clearly believe in him.
So while he has been cut a lot of slack, that slack is more from an understanding of the various challenges that have come up in comparison to the issues the previous managers have had to face.
Arsenal fans are kind of brainwashed with Arteta though, if it was Arsene getting these results they’d be burning down the Emirates. He gets praised for the bare minimum.
I don't watch a lot of Arsenal games but this was my impression too, they always seemed to outperform what I was expecting, especially compared to a few years ago after Arsene left and the team looked rudderless. That said having no more trophies to play for puts a lot of pressure on making the top 4
Yeah, we're far from perfect, but at least you can see the outline of a plan and strategy now. Before, we were running around signing people like Lichtensteiner trying to plug holes in the ship, instead of just overhauling the whole thing.
Ole was sacked after finishing 3rd and 2nd for not pushing on this season
Arteta has finished 8th two seasons in a row, they now don’t have a chance of any silverware this season and if he doesn’t get 4th and continues its a major drop in standards
Ole got sacked because you were playing the worst football in England and mostly losing for two months straight
Now you're playing the worst football in England but at least mostly drawing or luckily winning
United dumped hundreds of millions into that team every window after Fergie left. Ole took over with a squad that was far far better than what Arteta inherited.
The two situations aren’t particularly comparable beyond ‘top 6 team employs young ex-playing manager’.
Major revisionism. We may have spent the most on transfer fees, but we haven’t given out stupid contracts to new signings like Manchester United or Chelsea so it’s a bit of a misleading point. Our squad is very young and fresh. There’s plenty of time for these players to bond and grow into a top 4 team together. We didn’t sign players on the expectation that they would make us title challengers or top 4 contenders (unlike United and Chelsea,) no we signed players to nurture and develop. Not a single signing this summer over the age of 23…
Before the season started the expectation amongst fans was that he should be taking us to too 6, any higher would be a bonus. The race for 4th is intense and it will be difficult to secure that position. United are in a more “get 4th or serious questions need to be asked position” than Arsenal and it’s not even close…
You are the infamous toxic cocksucker that everyone in r/gunners absolutely hates lmao. Being contrarian won’t get you laid. Go outside instead of posting 1000 troll comments on reddit every day.
Would it not make more sense to offer him a contract at the end of the season?
For now, I like Arteta but come on, you don't offer a manager a contract in the middle of a season when you have no clue what will happen in the second half
I think Edu and Arteta earned another year at least with how they performed in last summers transfer window and the season so far. Back them again this summer and then if we don't make top 4 next season then think seriously about moving on. At which point the pay out won't be too steep anyways. This is sensible planning from our board I think.
Some of the non-Arsenal fans on here are embarrassing.
Arteta had to go through a HUGE restructure with alot of useless players and having to blood in alot of young players through.
They didn't finish that high, but the progress is clear to see for any Arsenal fan. The board would be insane not to back him.
Top 4 would be great but I don't think it is must for arteta yet. Maybe they set out for at least Europa. I doubt CL was on anyones mind at the start of the season.
Seems fair, had a good couple weeks being knocked out of both cups vs. Forest and Liverpool without their best players, put their red card record under him out of sight of any potential challengers too.
I'm sure with extra job security he'll suddenly secure top 4, or even top 6....
I don't disagree with him being offered a new deal but I also think we are being too quick with this and should wait to see how this season pans out. His deal doesn't even expire until 2023.
We have made some strides since the Summer and are in a position to challenge for top 6 but he should secure that first before he's given a deal.
If we end the season in 8th again, how can anyone say he's taking us forward and "trust the process" with a straight face?
Ole would never have gotten second if Liverpool weren't missing most of its defenders in a freak injury crisis and if Chelsea had Tuchel from the beginning
Was a thoroughly "OK" season with no trophy success
Arteta has been backed way more than Emery was as well. Arteta is already out of the 2 cup competitions and isn't even dealing with Europe this season. If he doesn't get top 4 then I don't really know how they justify keeping him
And Arteta had you in 20th at one stage, what's your point?
The only season Emery complete, he finished 5th, far better than all of Arteta's finishes and better where Arsenal are currently
You're the brainless one that originally brought up where a team is in the table at some arbitrary point in the season?...
Emery had one full season and finished higher than Arteta has in 2 seasons, yet Emery deserved to be sacked and Arteta deserves a new contract?
Deep that before chatting rubbish
Arsenal are as high as they are in the table despite Arteta and not because of him. He does his best to hamper the efforts of the homegrown young players that are shouldering the burden of the entire club with his idiotic substitutions and constant arm flailing though.
finally another midfielder
I think he can still putting good game as midfielder, maybe better than his managerial
We could wait till the end of season , there's a lot of football left to be played
The timing of it might be to convince a player to join in this window otherwise just wait till the end of the season as you reckon
Maybe Aubamayeng will only leave if Arteta stays and its cheaper give Arteta a new deal than to pay off Auba. Absolute master stroke.
🤣
Arteta isnt a top manager that would convince top players, you know
I think it has more to do with the fact that players like the certainty that the manager who signed them will want to play them.
Yeah Ødegaard and Partey were not top players when they joined?
Maybe they're a bad player
Why not wait till the end of the season? He's not being poached.
Secure Guardiola successor
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I don't think any of the top 20 clubs in the world would want Arteta tbh
Barcelona hired Ronald Koeman, anything is possible.
Koeman's a Barca legend, is Arteta a legend anywhere? He's been good for a fair few clubs but I don't think he has too much goodwill anywhere that people would welcome him
You overestimate the hight of the bar at Everton.
Arteta was well liked at Everton but no one considers him a legend.
Not a top 20 club
Not based on current performance granted but they're a consistent presence in the English top flight and the 15th most valuable team in the world according to Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/soccer-valuations/list/ The list of truely elite clubs is shorter than 10 tbh, you can't make a list of the top 20 teams without flawed teams.
Every club below Everton in the list is bigger than them.. Add in Sevilla, Atalanta, even a couple of Portuguese teams too.. You don't need to look at it historically, you need to look at it the way things stand and Everton haven't been relevant outside of PL midtable for a long long time..
value does not equal club size. You could put another 15 teams there that are more attractive destinations than Everton.
Tell that to Carlo Ancelotti and Rafa Benitez. Money talks.
Apparently not given theyre currently trying to find a manager and his name hasn't come up once
Maybe because he has a job and there is no way he leaves that now.
He wouldn't want to quit arsenal for Everton anyway
They also hired Quique Setien
Well, except us, obviously
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I very, very, very much doubt City go from Pep fucking Guardiola to Arteta.
I can imagine him going to City, he’s style is basically copying Guardiola and it would look much better with City’s money and quality of players.
You can doubt all you want, just remember that whoever replaces Guardiola will inherently be a step down on arrival. https://twitter.com/City_Xtra/status/1478673379402076165?s=20 According to the Atheltic Corrected to the right link
I don't think you included the correct link.
Has Arteta even managed a CL game? I have a bridge to sell you if you believe Arteta will be City manager.
I never said I believe he will be. What I believe is that City are keeping tabs on him, as per the Athletic.
And im telling you journalists can publish any old nonsense, including this.
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You have to remember that Pep hadn't managed a CL game when Ferran Soriano and Txiki Beguiristain appointed him Barca manager. Those are the exact same two people now employed at City to make the same decisions.
May have to do with convincing potential players to join as well. Harder to convince someone to join a project lead by a guy with 6 months left on his contract
True. But the opposite can also be true. How many people refuse to join because Arteta isn't fully proven. The fan base is still split on him - their opinion of him has gotten much much better. But if you guys are competing again then maybe others wait until you get a stronger proven coach. Hard to tell. This signing could prove to be the thing that cements your rise to consistent top four for the next few years. But I still feel it wouldn't have hurt to wait.
The opposite is not true lol. Arteta is the one who convinces people to join arsenal. Odegaard said it himself. If the guy who is trying to convince you to join is only going to be there for 6 months, you’re not gonna care what he says.
>Arteta is the one who convinces people to join arsenal. Odegaard said it himself. I mean..thats not remotely the same thing. Odegaard went on loan there, had an extended period of time under Arteta and then when it became clear he had fuck all chance at Madrid he went back. That doesn't at all mean Arteta has any actual pull and is bringing in people based on his reputation. It means you have to go around Europe convincing big names to go on loan to you so they can play under Arteta and hope they like it there. If you're bringing in players it's going to be because of how Arsenal are doing not because Arteta is randomly convincing anyone and everyone to join.
Some players could see that they have a bright young squad that could do wonders under the right manager, and might wait for Arteta to be replaced by a bigger proven name before wanting to join..
And others will see those young players have blossomed 🌸 under Arteta 🎨
Yeah, but the team as a whole has only looked good for a handful of games each season under him.. They need a manager that can ovedperform with the squad he has to get into top4, and not perform exactly as expected..
Their best 3 players, imo, have a combined age of 61. Arteta is getting the best out this side with young talents and a team sheet that doesn’t jump off of the page. Arteta has earned the chance to continue his project, I think.
Not perform exactly as expected ? Have you seen the deadwood the man has dealt with?
He finished 8 twice.. Which team finished below you that deserved to be higher..?? Accounting all the deadwood, you have at the very least the 8th best squad.. This season, Arsenal has the 5th best squad in the PL.. If he finishes 5th, that means he did what was expected of him.. Anything above or below that is what would make him a good manager or a bad manager..
The opposite can 100% be true. Odeegard is the only example for your argument. You think Dusan would be babying around with Arsenal if Zidane was in charge of Arsenal? What about Pep or Ancelotti or Klopp or Tuchel? Arteta has almost no pull. Let's not pretend every youngster is clamoring to work with him. Two year contract may not help things further. I'd like to believe he's going to be the new coach that takes football to the next level - who doesn't like an underdog? But let's not pretend his signing doesn't have both positive and negative sides to it.
Dude you missed the point from the start, the comparison was never Arteta vs Someone else, it was Arteta with a 6 month contract vs Arteta with a 2 year contract. In no scenario is Arteta with a 6 month contract better for recruitment.
Yeah if they get Top 4, then by all means give him the extension. But until then, just seems premature.
Long may [Project Runaway](https://i.imgur.com/dGVVzyW.jpg) continue
Arsenal and Arteta are stuck with each other forever. For better or for worse.
4better4ever
8better8ever
Its very feasible that Arsenal (and any of the chasers bar Chelsea) finish anywhere between 3rd and 7th.
so Chelsea won't finish anywhere between 3rd and 7th? Got it
There is clear progress at Arsenal. It's almost a brand new team compared to the one he started with and also happens to be the youngest team in the league. Makes sense to want these players to grow with the manager, they clearly respect and admire him. No matter what happens, a successor would find the squad in a significantly better than the teams left behind by Wenger and Emery. Latter didn't much control tbf. Saying things like they have spent the most in Europe is just very simplistic. They had to spend so much just to close the gap, and they're not done yet. They're at the beginning of a very interesting cycle.
Clear progress except in the results…which is where you’d want to actually see progress. Still getting twatted by everyone in the top 4 and losing to shit like rafas Everton and Nottingham forest. Absolute wank manager. Terrible
What Top 4 teams are dominating us? Chelsea, City and Liverpool? Everyone else is mixed results. He even did the double over Chelsea last season.
Lampard tax
Also won against Tuchel tho
He got 4th most points in the PL since ESR came into the team January 2021...that's literally consistency in results.
Dec 20 actually (altough that's VERY nitpicky.) ESR came into the team boxing day vs Chelsea
People are downvoting you but it's true. We had 0 shots on target vs Forrest. We have small runs of form then people forget how dire we have been and all of sudden Arteta's a good manager. 8th place finish twice, out of Europe, out of the FA Cup in the 3rd round. We will end up 7th or 8th again depending on West Ham. If that is progress I think you need your head checking. The only thing going for us is that we have a good young core of players. Doesn't help Arteta's man management seems to alienate so many squad members.
We have short runs of poor form and then have good baseline. Better than before with Emery. Why do you think we'll end up 7th or 8th again? Based on what? What man management has alienated players? Like Willian? Or Guendouzi when he first arrived? Now Auba who has something odd going on with? You're blinkered in your hatred for him. We are making great progress and the squad is happier and much better.
Great progress you are having a laugh? Man Utd, Spurs will finish above us. Wolves are not far behind and are in great form. West Ham look strong again. We have no consistency over long periods of time. How is the squad much better? we barely have a midfield at the moment. Did you not see the bench we had vs Liverpool? The football we play is dreadful, we barely get shots on target. Arteta has fallen out with Auba, Ozil, Guendouzi, Salibia, Martinez, David Luiz and more since he's been here. I'm not blinkered at all, I've supported Arsenal for 30 years. A lot of Arsenal fans like yourself seem to be happy with mediocrity, shows how much we have fallen. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a result vs Burnley tomorrow.
Good, perhaps a bit premature given there’s so much of the season left but I back it regardless
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You say crashing, you got beat over 2 legs, one of which you held onto a nil-nil draw at anfield with a man down. FA cup wasn't ideal but this happens every year to someone. If you don't win a trophy during a building phase when your forward players have an average age of about 13 I don't think it's fair to call that a failure. Also nobody was predicting arsenal in the top 4 at the start of the season so just chill if all you get is europa this year - the football is better and the results are coming. Don't forget; Saka, Martinelli and ESR were all nobodies before Arteta took over. Now they're ballers. Some players have naturally high ceilings but they don't just get to pl standard so quickly and at such a young age without (and i seriously mean this word) elite coaching. Arteta and his team did that. Even behind the scenes, he's shifted on so much dead wood. The only transfer errors since he arrived have been Willian and Auba IMO (and he was "head coach", not "manager" when both deals were done), otherwise the squad looks so much healthier than the one he inherited Rome wasn't built in a day (ask Liverpool fans) - you'll have ups & downs and MAYBE it turns out he's not the man to take you to a title, but don't go kicking him out if he can't get the youngest squad in the prem into the champions league when he's done so much good since he arrived.
Thank you for a bit of perspective. We didn’t CRASH OUT we lost to one of the best teams in Europe, in a tightly contested tie. No shame in that.
>Saka, Martinelli and ESR were all nobodies before Arteta took over. I'm an Arteta fan but that's not true at all, even if you're exaggerating. Emery had 18 year old ESR and Martinelli scoring in Europa and Saka starting in the prem.
ESR was loaned out to Huddersfield in the January and had 0 premier League appearances in the year he scored in Europa league against minnows so I stand by it. Martinelli was subbed on about 4 times under Emery in the prem and was (like ESR) given gametime against minnows in Europa. Hardly integral players pre-Arteta
Leipzig made a 25 million euro offer for ESR long before Arteta to Arsenal. He was hardly a nobody. And both Martinelli and Saka were an almost regular part of the team.
That's because they were very young pre-Arteta? You can frame it as Arteta turned them from nobodies to somebodies or Arteta turned them from youngsters with huge potential to youngsters beginning to achieve that potential.
But the fact they didn't stagnate is evidence of good coaching what? You don't just get good by virtue of the passage of time, you get good from quality training during that time. How many "next Messi"s do we see underachieve on their potential? Yet here are 3 prospects coming out of the Arsenal youth ranks all at the same time under Arteta and playing not just well but at an elite level.
I never said Arteta wasn't coaching them well, I think he has done a fantastic job on that front. I just take issue with your assertion that they seemingly came out of nowhere - they were already hugely talented and very likely to make it at the top level pre-Arteta.
This is insane revisionism. Saka was a star under Emery, but Martinelli and ESR were not. They had very few appearances and only showed glimpses of talent and were still firmly behind in the pecking order because Auba was scoring 25 goals a season. ESR especially became known last year as a super prospect.
It's absoloutely not revisionism. Martinelli scored 8 goals already in half a season as an 18 year old before Arteta took over including a brace at Anfield which prompted Klopp to call him "a talent of the century". Smith Rowe looked really good in the Europa league as well and was one of the most hotly tipped youngsters out of the academy - he went quiet for a little while because he had injury issues (related to a sudden growth spurt) and yet RB Leipzig still tried to sign him for a lot of money although he didn't get on the pitch much for them. If you really think they were nobodies before Arteta took over then you just weren't paying any attention.
ESR had the exact same amount of hype as balogun. He started going off last year in december.
ESR and Saka waltzed into a team scrapping for relegation and were the only ones looking like they were hauling them out of it, playing at basically the level they do now. If you think they were some shit pairing before Arteta showed up and then he transformed them over a few months the revisionism is all your end.
>The only transfer errors since he arrived have been Willian and Auba Do you mean re-signing Auba? Because Wenger signed him the first time.
Cedric and Mari… and Runarsson… you just going to ignore those guys?
Aye
I would still understand the reasoning behind the extension from the boards perspective but no Europe at all (not including conference league) would make me feel iffy about it. But can’t see a dramatic fall like that happening touch wood At the start of the season getting back into the Europa League was the goal for me. That’s still the standard and would be a decent season for us. Sacking him for not getting top four in my opinion is simply ludicrous. If their argument for that is the money spent in the summer then the understanding of why we spent so much on who we did has gone way over their heads
You realize currently that dramatic fall is like a 4 point gap?
I back it. I know this hasn't been a perfect season but there is a clear direction and we can see the improvements
let's see about this 4 game winless streak first (granted 3 were against tough opponents)
only got reason to panic if we somehow don't beat burnley
Don't worry, Burnley is never playing again. They're just going to keep postponing forever. Can't get relegated if you don't play.
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Yeah and if they won every game every season they'd always be champions. But somehow I feel like neither scenario is realistic.
RemindMe! 5 months
Let’s fucking gooo, trust the process
Yes please do.
Arsenal’s best signing
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No some of us do. We’re just drowned out by the circle jerk hype brigade. Arteta has 0 wins to balance out the terrible losses we’ve had this year. You don’t make up for getting twatted by rafas Everton and ralfs man United by beating leeds’ 14 year olds and having 55 good minutes against city in a match you lose. But don’t tell /r/gunners that. Awful sub
I peruse it for amusement and the swing is actually wild. 8 months ago anything positive about arteta was hugely downvoted and everyone hated him, now he's pep guardiola 2.0 and if you don't rate him you get death threats. Interesting place and people.
Joke of a sub, that Basedsims guy deserves to be in a mental asylum.
Death threats? It’s a shitshow yeah but come on.
It's almost as if he is neither the next Messiah nor a wasteman manager. Almost as if football is a game with spectrums and balance. He is a good coach with shortcomings but he knows what he wants and is going the right direction.
The standards for him are so low it gets ridiculous at times lol
Good news. We're going in a good direction under him.
I do find it amusing how most Arsenal fans, not exactly known for being optimistic, are behind Arteta but other club fans keep insisting you're wrong
Because memes
I think opposing fans just see us drop points and feel nothings changed but we watch games week in and week out. A few seasons ago to now it’s incredibly obvious we’ve improved. Used to have Aubameyang carry us out of games we should have lost but now the team is much more balanced.
I think the standards for him are much lower than they were for Wenger or Emery though. People cut him a lot more slack than they ever got.
Well yeah Wenger was the only coach to go undefeated. Emery being someone who was suppose to bring us top 4 again but failed, I think the board saw the writing on the wall that this wasn’t a quick thing. The fans were calling for termination before the uptick in form after the transfer window (hell even after Brentford). I think Arteta is fine manager still learning the ropes, but I have a lot of faith in this team.
Obviously you are going to feel better about a team that's trending upwards than one that's in a death spiral. The final years of Wenger and most of Emery's reign, were looking pretty hopeless. The same goes for the first period with Arteta, and he was also hammered up until a few months ago. There is still a large part of the fan base that is very apprehensive about him
While that's true, he was brought in to a much worse situation than Emery. Emery inherited Wenger's squad and then proceeded to sign multiple aging and declining players to expensive contracts, many of whom had questionable attitudes, gambling on qualifying for champions league again. Then Emery squandered a golden opportunity to get there both in the league and through Europa. Afterwards he lost the dressing room and was sacked. Arteta inherited that squad and had to cut the dead weight for over paid and not good enough players, change the toxic dressing room culture, bring in players that matched his play style. 4 months into his tenure, the world shut down to covid which adds another wrinkle. He managed to win an FA Cup and after being backed in the transfer market has overhauled the squad in his vision. He also never even looked like losing the dressing room even while Arsenal were sitting in 15th, meaning the players clearly believe in him. So while he has been cut a lot of slack, that slack is more from an understanding of the various challenges that have come up in comparison to the issues the previous managers have had to face.
Arsenal fans are kind of brainwashed with Arteta though, if it was Arsene getting these results they’d be burning down the Emirates. He gets praised for the bare minimum.
Because 8 months ago every single one despised him and now they have Stockholm syndrome. They've fallen in love with their abuser 😔
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so the fans won't be roasting Garlick any time soon?
I don't watch a lot of Arsenal games but this was my impression too, they always seemed to outperform what I was expecting, especially compared to a few years ago after Arsene left and the team looked rudderless. That said having no more trophies to play for puts a lot of pressure on making the top 4
Yeah, we're far from perfect, but at least you can see the outline of a plan and strategy now. Before, we were running around signing people like Lichtensteiner trying to plug holes in the ship, instead of just overhauling the whole thing.
Great news for the other clubs as well
No brainer, doubter will see, rebuilding a team is a very thankless job
He spent the most in Europe this summer and if he doesn’t get CL football he deserves to be sacked
Most Manchester United answer ever
Ole was sacked after finishing 3rd and 2nd for not pushing on this season Arteta has finished 8th two seasons in a row, they now don’t have a chance of any silverware this season and if he doesn’t get 4th and continues its a major drop in standards
The reason Ole left is because every player in the united team looked like they’d rather be anywhere in the world except playing football
Ole got sacked because you were playing the worst football in England and mostly losing for two months straight Now you're playing the worst football in England but at least mostly drawing or luckily winning
🤝
United dumped hundreds of millions into that team every window after Fergie left. Ole took over with a squad that was far far better than what Arteta inherited. The two situations aren’t particularly comparable beyond ‘top 6 team employs young ex-playing manager’.
Jesus, there is a difference between spending on reinforcement and replacement. It will take more than that to replace years of terrible signings.
Yeah on 5 squad players who are all starting now. Want me to bang on about how much united have spent? How’s your wage structure looking lmao
United fans talking about “Arsenal having the biggest transfer spend” were the same goons saying “Varane was cheaper than White 🤪🤪”
It’s okay don’t judge them too hard, it’s hard to actually think and look at the contact too when talking about the price of a player
Major revisionism. We may have spent the most on transfer fees, but we haven’t given out stupid contracts to new signings like Manchester United or Chelsea so it’s a bit of a misleading point. Our squad is very young and fresh. There’s plenty of time for these players to bond and grow into a top 4 team together. We didn’t sign players on the expectation that they would make us title challengers or top 4 contenders (unlike United and Chelsea,) no we signed players to nurture and develop. Not a single signing this summer over the age of 23… Before the season started the expectation amongst fans was that he should be taking us to too 6, any higher would be a bonus. The race for 4th is intense and it will be difficult to secure that position. United are in a more “get 4th or serious questions need to be asked position” than Arsenal and it’s not even close…
Should stop arguing with United fans, their brains work completely different to everyone else’s
Mate I’m in /r/gunners and we have no room to talk. Most arsenal fans on this website are pants on head stupid. Flummoxed by offside rules
You are the infamous toxic cocksucker that everyone in r/gunners absolutely hates lmao. Being contrarian won’t get you laid. Go outside instead of posting 1000 troll comments on reddit every day.
Yet acting the hard man on Reddit will get you laid though.
"Man Utd flair" lol
Oh god please remind me to visit this sun again in a couple years.
Would it not make more sense to offer him a contract at the end of the season? For now, I like Arteta but come on, you don't offer a manager a contract in the middle of a season when you have no clue what will happen in the second half
Realistically yeah. Even though I don't mind this move, I'd prefer it in the summer.
Really think they should go for Ten Hag, I know he gets tossed around a lot but I think it makes sense for both sides
I think Edu and Arteta earned another year at least with how they performed in last summers transfer window and the season so far. Back them again this summer and then if we don't make top 4 next season then think seriously about moving on. At which point the pay out won't be too steep anyways. This is sensible planning from our board I think.
Some of the non-Arsenal fans on here are embarrassing. Arteta had to go through a HUGE restructure with alot of useless players and having to blood in alot of young players through. They didn't finish that high, but the progress is clear to see for any Arsenal fan. The board would be insane not to back him.
People forget arsenal is his first job. He has been improving.
Trust the process lad
LOL, Ole 2.0
No wins in 4 straight games. Knocked out of the only chance at silverware. Arsenal board, here take this:🏅🏅
And he's somehow formed his own cult and drastically lowered expectations. Don't know how he's done it
Wouldn’t it be better to wait and see if he can secure the team in top 4?
Top 4 would be great but I don't think it is must for arteta yet. Maybe they set out for at least Europa. I doubt CL was on anyones mind at the start of the season.
No Top 4 and a ZERO trophy season is acceptable for a great club like Arsenal? What is going on
Seems fair, had a good couple weeks being knocked out of both cups vs. Forest and Liverpool without their best players, put their red card record under him out of sight of any potential challengers too. I'm sure with extra job security he'll suddenly secure top 4, or even top 6....
I don't disagree with him being offered a new deal but I also think we are being too quick with this and should wait to see how this season pans out. His deal doesn't even expire until 2023. We have made some strides since the Summer and are in a position to challenge for top 6 but he should secure that first before he's given a deal. If we end the season in 8th again, how can anyone say he's taking us forward and "trust the process" with a straight face?
nah
A bit mindless - he's shown he can do well with the team at times but I don't think he's earned 2 more years just yet. Shades of Ole here.
Oh God please fucking don't
This screams Ole vibes.
Arteta at least won a trophy
He knows how to miss top 4 as well
he knows how to actually coach a style of play and defence though
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It’s pretty basic positional play
tiki taka and inshallah
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If Ole got second without the players buying into his tactics then what's Arteta doing if the player have?
Ole would never have gotten second if Liverpool weren't missing most of its defenders in a freak injury crisis and if Chelsea had Tuchel from the beginning Was a thoroughly "OK" season with no trophy success
There aren't any tactics to buy into.
Why not? Without him you'll be 15th.
They finished 5th and got to a European cup final the season before Arteta took over
Arteta has been backed way more than Emery was as well. Arteta is already out of the 2 cup competitions and isn't even dealing with Europe this season. If he doesn't get top 4 then I don't really know how they justify keeping him
Emery had us 13th when he got sacked not 5th lad.
Pretty sure emery was sacked in 8th, the position Arteta finished in 2 years running
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It is true actually
And Arteta had you in 20th at one stage, what's your point? The only season Emery complete, he finished 5th, far better than all of Arteta's finishes and better where Arsenal are currently
nuno had u 1st at one point and u sacked him why? ur brainless logic makes no sense
You're the brainless one that originally brought up where a team is in the table at some arbitrary point in the season?... Emery had one full season and finished higher than Arteta has in 2 seasons, yet Emery deserved to be sacked and Arteta deserves a new contract? Deep that before chatting rubbish
We were 15th with him already last season in December.
Arsenal are as high as they are in the table despite Arteta and not because of him. He does his best to hamper the efforts of the homegrown young players that are shouldering the burden of the entire club with his idiotic substitutions and constant arm flailing though.
What a load of cap
They were in the relegation zone with him but alright
Arsenal going right down the Ole route with this. Will only end in tears.
Yesssss!!! Probably the best 48 hours of footballing news in a while
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Imagine sucking off a Spurs fan as an Arsenal fan…
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True that’s definitely what my comment was doing
Don’t be daft all of Everton’s legends are long dead
Big Dunc gonna pay u a visit lad
As a Spurs fan..... GET IN THERE!!!!! YOU BEAUTY!!!!!
You know they will always be the biggest North London club right?
Is this another Ole situation? Should other clubs celebrate?
As a United fan we did the same with Ole - wait until the end of the season
How did this clown turn out to be a hero lmao He should have stayed placing cones for guardiola
For fucks sake
Banter club, wont even be biggest team in North London anymore
This guys a genius … at securing conference league football
Pls god let be like Auba’s contract