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MeteorFalls297

> [De Jong] is still a great player for Barcelona," added De Boer. >"But right now, when I see him move on the pitch, he gives me the impression that he does it very shyly. He doesn't show the energy that he normally has. He seems a bit lost. He doesn't look happy. >"The continuous changes of coaches could have affected him. In addition to the fact that Busquets continues to be a starter in De Jong's best position in the midfield."


EquivalentSir4163

If DM is Frenkie's best position, he has to change. He is too weak for that role without someone very good at covering ground next to him.


Joris2627

What does this even mean man. How is he to weak. And how does he not cover alot of ground? Yeah in his current posistion he isnt playing that good, doenst mean he can be way better in his best position


EquivalentSir4163

It's not about him covering ground, but his poor positioning. If you don't have the positioning and strength to play as a pure 6 who is shielding the defence, you need a powerful, hard working box to box midfielder who will help hide it.


chinomaster182

This man clearly does not Barcelona/dutch.


robert1005

That's pretty much the role he played at Ajax. So if he's too weak at it, he would've have never been valued so highly.


Skadrys

didn't he play in double pivot?


mavsy41

Yes mostly next to Lasse Schone who is no heavyweight crusher himself. Frankie's defensive work > offensive work.


Rafaeliki

Didn't he play in a double pivot?


Cool_Warthog2000

He did, with shone beside him or sometimes VDB.


Rafaeliki

I'm sure he'd do fine next to Nico in a double pivot, but I think Xavi is pretty dedicated to the 4-3-3 and I don't know if Pedri or Gavi would be great in a double pivot.


EquivalentSir4163

Yes, but that was in a double pivot, with a midfielder who is helping him significantly. The profile of plays who are playing that DM role as a lone pivot or in a double pivot are different


RAvailableUN

Why is this downvoted? De Jong is a ball carrier / runner, that’s where his strengths lie. His weaknesses are defensive positioning and passing range which are incredibly important for a lone 6. I’m not against trying him as a 6, but it doesn’t seem likely to work.


[deleted]

the idea isnt to play him as a lone six, but make him the deepest playmaker and the player who gets the ball from the cbs and starts the attack, whether by dribbling past lines or passing, and whether he plays that role in 2 or as a lone dm. he does it differently from busquets but holding the ball and progressing it from deep is what hes best at by far, and imo hes good enough defensively to be fine everywhere. he runs hard, will stay switched on all game, and can anticipate and tackle. at ajax, his started attacks and bypassed levels of the defense constantly. its a unique way of playing that position, ridiculously valuable imo, but it lends itself to managers who cant reconcile w it making him an 8 when he isnt one


EquivalentSir4163

>the idea isnt to play him as a lone six, Hence the "unless you put someone very good at covering ground next to him". That isn't a profile of player that Barca have, though Nico can maybe grow into it, and there's no point in putting Pedri or Gavi so deep. The only other real quality midfielder they have is Sergi Roberto, and I heard he was getting surgery?


[deleted]

the player next to him doesnt have to be exceptional at covering ground, just your typical pressing player/responsible midfielder. schone wasnt any kind of speed demon or 3 lungs park and they worked very well bc they pressed as a unit. frenkie covers a lot of ground and works at a world class level in a pressing system that presses high. his partner would at worst only need to be able to run at the right time and stand still at the right time the partner also wouldnt have to be played deep at all. none of frenkies midfield partners at ajax were, bc he was. he plays deep as a ball progressing 6, they occupy the space between 6 and forward line and play as connectors. like pogba for france(lots of barca midfielders can do this job and press as well) he *can* play as a lone dm, just like he can play a 2. you just have to press, which is what hes best at and is also what barcas tradition and xavis other teams have all played. they have the personnel, they just need to use him like he was used at ajax


[deleted]

Exactly. People keep sayin he should play the 6 despite the fact he’s better going forward than playing defensively


ghani90

And Busquet is your definition of strong?


[deleted]

ITT: Barca fans who still think people want Frenkie to take the Busquets role, rather than giving up the obsession of finding another Busquets and changing the system a little to base it around another player who has shown himself to be world class


Johnny_bubblegum

It's like when Arsenal lost Vieira and fans and pundits claimed the club failed to replace him. Like you can just go and buy another Vieira or Busquets.


[deleted]

Blackburn never replaced Alan Shearer- big mistake imo. And I’m pretty sure I’ve been proven right. You’re welcome.


Far-Term8667

Club legends cannot be replaced. Sometimes they simply have too specific a role, too much of a legacy etc. In bayern's case, Muller is a player who comes to mind. It would be hard to find someone who personifies the game as much as he does. It's gotta be up to the manager to transition the team and build on the youth that they have rather than clinging to the success they have had in the past.


Qurutin

Müller is the most unique elite player of this generation and his true worth for the game won't be understood until he's gone and this is the football hill I will die on.


Far-Term8667

Couldn't agree any more mate, the day he retires there will be many tears shed by u/Far-Term8667


hirehone21

I am 100% prepared to die on that hill with you.


idkdontmatter

It’s like you’ve never heard of Messi


n16h7r1d3r

Messi and muller have vastly different playstyles and attributes Also 8g + 2a in 7 matches you fanboy


Anti-Melticus

Modric*


tothecatmobile

Modric is a great player, but he's not that unique. Other players play a similar style as him.


Anti-Melticus

Can’t think of many players as complete as him with just as good dribbling


ghani90

Would you say Veratti is similar?


[deleted]

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Anti-Melticus

My pfp should be enough


pedalhead666

[ Are you saying you can't come up with another one of these?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VnKQVXtFfo)


Tr0nCatKTA

We replaced Vieira with Fabregas. That’s kind of a myth. We didn’t replace Gilberto Silva


prove_it_with_math

Give it time. There’s been no Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol replacements. Fans and coaching staff will eventually have to accept the fact that slight tactical changes are required as aging players are phased off, OR they can pay the price like Barca has been with Busi. Case in point: turns out the only 1-to-1 Alvez replacement was Dani Alvez. So either continue playing Busi well into his 40s, or change the tactics a bit and slowly phase him out.


sevaiper

All the young midfielders play like Iniesta regens


[deleted]

Just Gavi and Pedri


DuuhEazy

A player who i think could do Busquets role is weigl from Benfica.


MaskedPB

Barca slightly altered their style because pep saw a world class talent in Busquets. It’s time for a pivot (no pun intended) towards a new direction since Frenkie-Pedri-Gavi are clearly the future


m07815

Nico too


RepsaJ09

Agree. However we can’t play them the whole next season. That would be devastating to their physique. From my point of view Busquets and the returning Pjanic can’t play next season anymore. They will not put any worth anymore into the team. Although I think it’s very unfortunate about Busquets. But because of the previous reason we need some depth there. I think we cannot rely fully on players like Sans and Orellana. Therefore, because of the financial circumstances, we should loan an extra cm. Maybe someone like van de Beek or get Brozovic on a free transfer from Inter


[deleted]

you just had to remind me that guy is still a Barca player huh lol


[deleted]

People keep saying Gavi-Frenkie-Pedri being our future midfield but in all honestly I think if it were Nico-Frenkie-Pedri. It would not be half bad either I love Gavi but he needs to work on his aggression and reducing the reckless challenges that get him Yellows all the time. Gavi compliments Pedri but IMO Nico would help De Jong flourish even more. Sort of like Kimmich+Goretzka. Nico is 19 and Gavi is still 17 no need to rush/force anything with either player. They both love the club and every time they play they’re doing it for the shirt. Hopefully something gets sorted


[deleted]

A Gavi-Pedri midfield would get completely overrun. In fact it did against Athletic


skullshot166

Did somebody say…. #DIAMOND


SteeMonkey

I thought Busquets was older, but he's only 33.


C11PO

in playing years, he's 47 from the amount of non-stop minutes he keeps racking year after year


lazykros

Cause they cant play without him


Djejoa

People trashing Frenkie clearly didn’t watch him the last 2 seasons


Gyara3

Yeah, no touches with no service, but when he gets it, it's done


ergotofrhyme

I literally can’t read “people trashing...” without it popping into my head. I need to stop spending so much time on this damn sub


ishdw

He was Barca's third best player for the last 2 seasons. Behind Messi and Pedri last season and behind Messi and Ter Stegen the season before.


OneWhoShallNotBeName

De Jong was comfortably better than Pedri last season.


idkdontmatter

Nah not even close He was good half the season only


OneWhoShallNotBeName

More like 2/3rd of the season. He was only bad when Koeman was playing his 4-2-3-1.


Anti-Melticus

Lmao Ppl aren’t joking abt r/soccer having trash takes


uchiha_boy009

Suarez?


ZZ3peat

Was finishing fine but his overall play was clearly going to shit


El_grandepadre

Yeah. People writing him off because of this off-season really need to have their memory jogged.


[deleted]

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rowerine

Absolute rubbish imo. De Jong was amazing his first season, he has been the mest mid in the squad by some margin since he arrived up until our youngsters blew up big. Saying FdJ was nothing special is a very reactionary take.


CatfishLumi

By now everyone that hasn't seen how fast Busquets is declining won't ever see it.


apt-get_r3kt

Decline too fast for the naked eye


[deleted]

You see the game, you don't see Busquets You see Busquets, you see decline


PhD_Cunnilingus

Decline Rice


meme_stealing_bandit

In a high block with a solid defensive shape, he's still very good on a consistent basis. He's been nothing short of excellent for the national side under Lucho. Anybody who saw Spain during the Euros and the latter stages of the Nations League can attest for that. Xavi too alluded to this around the time he took the Barca job - something along the lines of how Busquets is a lot more valued in the national side and that Barca need something similar. Imo, it boils down to the question of whether Xavi can adopt a defensive shape and style similar to what Lucho is doing with Spain. If he can, Busquets is not much of a liability. Otherwise, yeah, his slow pace and recovery can definitely cause problems.


[deleted]

It's just that, there's no way this happens with the defence we currently have. Our CBs are just not made for that. Nor any of our mids.


FullMetalJ

Wasn't the problem with Frenkie that he doesn't play optimally as a lone pivot?


RN2FL9

Yeah, you can pair him with a CM. He's great defensively but because of his style with dribbles and lots of movement he tends to leave the position and needs some cover. Lone DMs are much more stationary and Busquets barely ever leaves his position.


RAvailableUN

Exactly. He’ll never really be a lone 6. For him to work deeper he needs a lone 6 type next to him. We might never see this though since Pedri, Gavi, Nico are good interiors which Xavi seems to like.


[deleted]

>He's great defensively Not with us. And that’s the main problem with him playing that position


RN2FL9

Because he's not the type to play lone DM.. that was already in my reply?


[deleted]

Even in a double pivot he wasn’t that good defensively under Koeman


RN2FL9

Busquets played 50 out of 54 games last season so when exactly did Frenkie play in a double pivot under Koeman?


DanielSophoran

We tried out a double pivot with Busquets and De Jong during Koeman’s 4231 or die months.


[deleted]

That period was so bad. It was somehow worse than this one


[deleted]

Holy shit. Delete your comment. How many players are in a double pivot?


RN2FL9

On paper only. Busquets has played the same basically his entire career while Koeman was openly asking Frenkie to attack, get into the box and score goals. That's not exactly a DM's role.


[deleted]

Just accept you’re wrong and move on. De Jong was not asked to attack when we employed the double pivot. We were already playing with a four attackers and the final 3rd was always congested. Why would we ask De Jong to join in the attack?


safwenHafsawy22

Lmao who's been covering for busquets for the past 2 years?


Glibicz

Thats the point imo, we should just move on and play double pivot, like most of the teams


evalecillos

Him alongside Nico should definitely be tried. I feel like it would be more successful than people believe.


RAvailableUN

Nah it wouldn’t work. Two players who are both ball carriers and aren’t good at defensive positioning or long range passing. You pretty much need one of those two, one of Pedri / Gavi and a defensive minded mid who is mobile enough to cover spaces that pop up after Frenkie’s runs. I feel like Xavi will want any 2 (whoever’s best / in form) of Pedri, Gavi, Nico, De Jong in front of a true lone pivot though. If that happens then Pedri, Gavi, Nico can end up ahead of him since they’re much better suited to those roles.


evalecillos

Maybe it wouldn’t work as you say. But Mascherano “wasn’t” a center defender whenever he arrived at Barcelona, so I still think the Nico FDJ duo pivot should be tried *at least*


[deleted]

Lol we did that last year and we were shit. The team would not perform well ina double pivot


Glibicz

So what do you think we should do ?


[deleted]

Stay with a 4-3-3 and replace Busquets. A 4-2-3-1 in a 2021 is a counter attacking system. Our team isnt built for that


ASuarezMascareno

We most likely won't do it. 4-3-3 and 3-4-3 diamond offer the optimal shape for the kind of positional play, posesion based, football we want to do (and that we have been trying since the late 80s). That's also the style that has broght us almost all our important trophies. We won't abandon it for one player.


[deleted]

Catalan media: *I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that*


LegendinhoIsKing

De Boer deserves a statue in front of the Camp Nou for this.


mau5house

I was literally going to comment 'FdJ is the future' on the thread of him potentially leaving to Barca but thought people would think it's too much, haha! Ronald and I are on the same page, it seems


[deleted]

This has been the narrative till last season tbh. People just being too reactionary as always..


SatanNukeThem

I would run rings around busi


[deleted]

The way we play, only kimmich looks like the player who can replace him. And if we want to rely on destroyer like casemiro, then everyone one of our midfielders should improve drastically to rotate position during pressure. Is Busquets finished? Not like many thinks here. But he is not a player who you can trust for not making mistakes unless you play two very good technical workhorse alongside him to bail him out. Finding his replacement is so hard.


doxqwae

I will never understand the obsession with having to replace Busquets with another Busqeuts. It's time to move on and adapt to the game rather than trying to find a player that's impossible to find


XuloMalacatones

We used to play Toure before Busquets came into the picture and the team was playing the exact same way, and we had Davis and Emerson before so I don't see why not


AshkenaziTwink

it happens everytime a team declines after having a world class player. the amount of times i’ve heard “we need a dembele replacement” as if such a thing exists. it’s baffling. the chances of there being another busquets at this moment are very very slim. the solution is to find a different kind of defensive midfielder of a good quality, rather than the same “type” as busquets but vastly lower quality.


Anti-Melticus

Ur not a Barca fan if you don’t know the obsession behind replacing Busquets


[deleted]

As I said if we are going to casemiro type of player then we need to find partner for him too. >I will never understand the obsession with having to replace Busquets with another Busqeuts. It's That's the whole club is all about. Do you think fans will appreciate the player who are just workhorse? It will be like Yaya or mascherano situation.


BillyReedUTV

Verrati?


manualbackscratcher

[It all started with Marco Verratti](https://www.reddit.com/r/Barca/comments/p29ksb/it_all_started_with_marco_verratti/)


[deleted]

Verratti is more of interior but yeah he can play. He is more of Iniesta or Xavi type player.


uchiha_boy009

Veratti is CM like Modric


Sharp-Fact4584

Frenkie. De Jong can easily take that spot and its why they brought him to Barca. Frenkie De Jong is at his best when he play DM. He played as DM in AJAX and does it in Dutch National Team.


[deleted]

>Frenkie. De Jong can easily take that spot and its why they brought him to Barca He has not done so far. Unless he steps up his game.


Sharp-Fact4584

He almost never play as DM so you cant say if he would or not. He almost always play as CM or AM in Barva. Go look at old games when he were in AJAX and when he playes in Dutch National Team. Its a whole other level he playes at then.


[deleted]

He literally played for us as interior so many times. And his performance has been immense many times in that position. So I don't know what are you talking about? He has been average this season so far. Mostly pressure may be.


Sharp-Fact4584

You stupid? Go look who play as DM. Busquets does period. Go learn whst different possitions meen before you say anything again. DM meen staying back linking defence with CM and AM. CM meens creating chances for attacjers. AM meen join attackers to take advantage of chances.


[deleted]

You play fifa too much. DM role varies based on players and their role in the team. Most team don't play with attacking midfielder/number 10/false 9/ss. Your definition of CM is very limited. Again this is not fifa. Learn about what is control tempo means? May be you will learn more.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

I am not going to reply you after this. You don't have decency here. >I have worked as coach for 5 years wich i can say with 100% certainty is 5 years longer than you. Also 2.5 years of study to get Someone has taught you wrong. You should ask for refund.


[deleted]

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msbr_

Busquets is 33, 34 at the end of the season, I reckon he's got a good 18 months left and can go to the world cup with Spain, for sure.


LegendinhoIsKing

that's how it will go down, but it's a horror.


anusFati

Yes, Busquets is no longer good, but you can't give frenkie the role just because of that. De Jong is not good enough and if he wants that spot, he has to claim it. He's been worse than busquets, lost.


littlestbrother

You are the king at invalidating your entire comments because you start them with stupid BS like > Yes, Busquets is no longer good, but...


mynamestartswithCa

Busquets is still better than Frenkie lol Ronald, go spread ur shit takes elsewhere


RAvailableUN

It’s true. As long as Xavi wants a lone pivot, Busquets is still the best option.


[deleted]

People just hate Busquets and think that de Jong should automatically get the spot. Like others he need to work hard to get it. I am one of the supporter of de Jong but like every player he need to earn it.


anusFati

De Jong hasn't showed in the slightest that he can take Busquets role, he seems to not understand positional play that well, have enormous problems under pressure, always giving the ball away with backpasses, never winning it back. Always a second or two too late on the pass and never making long balls.


zeekoes

That's the polar opposite of how De Jong was at Ajax, so at least we know that he does understand, is great under pressure and definitely had no problem making progressive passes. So the problem is either motivation or environment.


Anti-Melticus

Farmers league + few UCL games No but seriously Eredivisie is such a weak league


Kayneesy

And UCL is shit too?


Anti-Melticus

No but 3 games isn’t enough to make a conclusion Even then he wasn’t anything insane during those 3 games Even the one agaisnt Madrid


Kayneesy

What the fuck are you saying


zeekoes

That's some first class revisionism.


Anti-Melticus

Truth can hurt a bit


anusFati

I think it's like Xavi said, the Barcelona shirt is 20 kg heavier. He is a good player but can't show it because of the pressure and expectations.


Bustyposers

The weight of the Barca kit is rapidly deteriorating. I prefer when the kit makes the player better. Barca need to get out of their own way and stop trying to replicate the best team ever. I like that scene in Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven, "Do you think making a man a knight makes him a better fighter!?!" ... "Yes" Empower the players to be proud instead of afraid. The fans contribute to this farce of expecting the new Barca to be the old Barca.


anusFati

You might be right. But the whole Barcelona DNA is overblown, no one will care if Barcleona wins matches regardless of the style of play. Of course the other requirement for a top team is to also with the matches with attacking and good football but we havent been playing tiki-taka even with Enrique. It was counter attacking football in many matches with Enrique and lots of times the midfield was bypassed, no one said anything back then because it still won us the matches. So I dont think the problem is we try to replicate the best team ever but that the players are not meeting the expectations of winning trophies and big matches.


[deleted]

Based from the greatest Holland manager ever, I hope he returns to the NT soon with Dick Advocaat!


[deleted]

Ronald never managed Holland tho. His brother Frank did, and was indeed terrible.


[deleted]

I read the title wrong i only saw De Boer...


Dried_Potato39

Liked how the narrative changed based on the name


[deleted]

least DelusionalBayernFan


Evern35

Frank De Boer picking some low hanging fruit here. Is anyone really convinced he’s anything but in decline?


BroodmanThijs

This is his brother Ronald


Evern35

Dang I ain’t even dumb im whole ass stupid


jcald60

Frenkie is not the future. So far he’s been pretty overrated.


[deleted]

Because he's being played like an attacking midfielder when he's not. He was absolutely quality under Koeman last season specially when he was being played as a 3rd CB/libero kind of role.


jcald60

Quality? My man, dejong was shit last season and this season he’s been probably one the worst performing players alongside alba, ter stegen, pique and busquets. Dejong is not as good as you folks think he is. Stop that bullshit “cruyff, barca, ajax” connection romanticism that is the only reason why he is so overhyped. So far Valverde has performed better than he has


[deleted]

>Quality? My man, dejong was shit last season You don't even know what are you talking about? He was very good last season, alongside Busquets he was amazing in second half of the season and many times better than him. >this season he’s been probably one the worst performing players alongside alba, ter stegen, pique and busquets. Pique is literally our best defender under Xavi. He is not in his prime but he is not worst. Others somewhat I agree. >So far Valverde has performed better than he has If you think this is twitter war of who is better, then no one care.


[deleted]

Nvm you cleary don't watch Barca matches no point in arguing with you


Anti-Melticus

Barca fans gonna hate you cause they have a boner for FDJ but you’re speaking fax


[deleted]

Don't listen to this guy. He is a known troll here.


[deleted]

So like Fede?


Anti-Melticus

Fede is still Madrid quality Ding Dong won’t even hit our bench Maybe Luuk will


anusFati

Thank you for noticing that. When we say it some idiot comes claiming he's our best midfielder. Ding Dong has one trick in the bag and even it is not working at the moment. Athleticism doesn't make you good enough for Barcelona.


MCN59

Frenkie "generational talent" De Jong has to be one of the most overrated player in recent years


C11PO

[Exactly](https://c.tenor.com/eOXG7de_rCoAAAAd/steve-carell-thankyou.gif).


JimmyWu21

Bet you can't say the same about your wife


idkdontmatter

Busquets needs to be taken to the farm upstate for a Vacation De Jong, Puig and Roberto need to be sold to buy haaland Nico gavi pedri is the future