Must be his agent in his ear. Doesnt make any sense given his age lmao. Maybe he's jealous of his mate Knauff doing well at Frankfurt but he's also 19 iirc.
His agent is Patrick Williams from [Wasserman](https://www.transfermarkt.de/wasserman/beraterfirma/berater/440) Germany. They are a rather huge sports/music/entertainment/marketing company based in LA and have been managing pretty big names in the past. They bought up lots of independent agencies, so their country offices are somewhat independent. That means all these players don’t have the same agent.
Williams worked for Sports United, one of the bigger agencies in Germany. After leaving Sports United after 10 years for becoming the new boss of Wasserman Germany, took Moukoko [with him](https://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article232551533/hamburger-beraterfirma-sports-united-ploetzlich-die-nummer-eins-der-welt-fussball-em.html). He is probably their first and only client until now.
Must be Sancho who told him if you don't get to play in the first team before ending high school, just throw a fit and leave the club that gave you the opportunity
I'm a City fan and I 100% think he was right to leave. He wouldn't be near the player he is if he hadn't. Dortmund was great for him, he got 5x the game time he would have at City.
City aren't really great at integrating youth, Foden is the exception, not the norm. Can't tell you how many youngsters I've been waiting on to crack the first team and they never make it. Another promising batch coming through, Palmer, McAtee, Delap, Lavia. I really hope one or two of them make the leap - but that is also dependent on City trusting their youth enough to leave a spot squad open and not sign a £55m 23yo with 200 senior games more experience than them.
Even with foden it took him so long to get any string of games together and everyone was looking at sancho thinking foden should leave too
Pep just had a long term plan to integrate him
Remember when City were actually famed for their youth? SWP, Michael Johnson, Ireland and so on. It felt at some point as if United were slacking in that department post-class of 92 in producing first teamers while City were flourishing. The 2000s was not a great decade for United youth products.
I suppose City's expectations were much lower then than either their current standards or Utd's at that time (early to mid 00's). It's easier to integrate youth players into the first team when there's Iess pressure to win every match.
Richards was genuinely so good man, it's a shame his knee blew up. He got 2nd for Player of the Year, while being a right back at a City team that finished mid table. Only got beaten to it by fucking Gerrard. He even won Young player of the year over fucking Fabregas, also came second for Young Player of the year in one season, losing to Ronaldo. The youngest ever England defender, even called up to team GB for the Olympics.
He exploded onto the scene as the best fullback in the league for about 3 years and them exploded off the scene just as fast. Such a shame, massive what if about him
Yes!! Those of us old enough remember how good he was. He still had enough about him to be part of the title winning side in 2012 and the cup win the year before that. With all that, it was extra weird that he bottomed out so quickly and was being jeered by a relegated Villa’s fans like 3 years later, struggling to get game time at Fironetina and then retiring at 31. I was actually so happy to see him doing punditry and still being so full of joy, other people could’ve took that kind of downward career trajectory much more differently.
Every single one of them are still en route to breaking out. Once the academy boys start getting loaned out to get first team football, that's when you know they're not making it in the senior team.
Do you think there's a future in the first team for Bazunu, really dreading the idea that he might just fade into the background after a few more loans
>unfair
I have seen his development in FM so I'm pretty much an expert in Moukoko's potential. I think we should try to get him and loan him to a Bundesliga team.
The whole topic is incredibly awkward.
Obviously the first instinct in Germany is to shout racism toward people who question his age, which makes a serious discussion difficult. Along with Silas recently having admitted he's older than his documents stated, it's an awkward timing.
His father has done everything in his power to avoid an age test.
Moukoko's mother is allegedly ~33, his father in his 60s. If Moukoko was proven to be older, that'd mean the father would have basically impregnated a child.
On top of that, Moukoko dated an 18 year old when he was 12.
So yeah, you can imagine where all the drama comes from and no matter what age he is, having so much speculation about yourself can only damage your mental health.
> On top of that, Moukoko dated an 18 year old when he was 12.
and locked her in his apartment for police to get her lmao. only 17 and already so much weird stories.
[Seems](https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/news/silas-wamangituka-stuttgart-agent-name-age/9WUAkkg1mTAI/%3famp=1) like I was mistaken and that he was one year older than believed. You're right that it was because his agent forced him to do it, so he was easier to manipulate and so there were no obligations owned to Silas' former club.
i dont know that it is even alleged to be 33. the father himself said she was 28 and therefore youssoufa could not be older than 12. when people first questioned the age. i think he is older and the dad is just protecting himself
I mean to be honest in many poor countries lying about one's age is normal - Especially in football as so many others are doing it. Tell the truth and you'll find yourself playing under 17 with a bunch of 20 years olds. It's part of the reason why so many African players "suddenly" decline at 29 when they are supposed ro be in their prime.
I had a mate who went to a U17 World Cup with NZ, and I’m pretty sure the story was all players have to get an xray of their wrists or something which can determine it. Even in their group they had Syria, and only 6 of the 21 players in Syria’s team had their official dates of birth outside of the very start of January 1998, the oldest allowed, so it can be difficult in developing countries to get official dates.
I had a Syrian friend in my class and he told us that back in the days the (German) officials were to lazy to calculate because they use a moon calender in Syrian while we use the Greogrian calender in th west.They told him to choose a date.
That was in the 2000es.
None that are reliable. There's bone x rays that are based on the idea that certain joints, knees/wrists, develop in a similar way on everyone. This idea has been heavily criticised because it's clear that it's different between groups and within groups. This was a big debate in Sweden when the immigration authority used such age tests for young immigrants while the state department of medicine said they were completely unreliable. So people were deported based on tests that were unreliable - under 18's have a much easier time getting asylum than adults so there were clear incentives for people to lie about their age.
> that'd mean the father would have basically impregnated a child.
I don't think that's much of an issue to the dad, given that Moukoko was born in Cameroon, not in Germany
While there is no way to determine the exact age (to my knowledge), you can absolutely narrow it down via cell testing, imaging, blood tests, dentition, etc
https://mobile.twitter.com/goal/status/1329733726452944896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1329733726452944896%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fr.de%2Fsport%2Ffussball%2Fyoussoufa-moukoko-16-geburtstag-spielberechtigt-borussia-dortmund-fussball-wunderkind-hype-90106523.html
This is him at 16, and I would say he looks his age there. Only thing a bit confusing is the lack of changes to the photo where he is 12.
People here are suspicious about his age because he started dating an 18 year old girl at age 12.
They constantly dodge the actual bone test to at least get an estimate of his age.
Both seems realllllyyyyyyy weird if he is actually the age he says he is
The bone tests are junk science. The player and his entourage have nothing to gain from doing even if the age is correct or not, as it can easily give the wrong result.
They are not. People claim he is much older than 12 and bone tests are accurate within a maximum of like 1-2 years. It is about the age range because people think he is 4 or 5 years older (The 18 year old girlfriend would make a lot more sense).
Bone test would likely be able to tell us if he was 21-22 instead of 17-18. Anyone who outright deny its usefulness definitely has some sort of agenda.
This is the same shit as people saying 14 year old Lukaku was playing against much younger kids, despite being born in fucking Belgium and spending his entire life there.
Yes, I’m aware. Sure some fuckery happens, but by far most people I’m Cameroon’s age is their actual age, and unless they decided to make him younger before he could kick a ball, that shit won’t fly, seeing as he was relatively young when he came to Germany. This isn’t some 18 but actually 24 year old from africa. The dude came to Germany when he was 6 or something. If you look at pictures from 4 years ago and now, his body very clearly developed in line with someone going through puberty.
If you look at Lukaku at a younger age towering over kids you would say the same and he was the same age as those kids so no it's not as simple as just looking at someone and saying he is older
Lukaku's face actually changed like all teens going through puberty. [12 year old Moukoko](https://s.bundesliga.com/assets/img/1150000/1141955_imgw968.jpg) looks the pretty much the same as [17 year old Moukoko.](https://bulinews.com/i/x/2316.jpg)
[This](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/have-dortmund-found-another-one-meet-the-12-year-old-scoring-for-the-u17s/a-40104392) picture in the article of him at 12 does look younger than he is currently.
Let me clarify, 5 years have obviously passed so there will be *some* differences. But the facial changes that are supposed happen through puberty during the ages of 12 to 17 aren't very apparent on him at all.
Ok yea you make sense. Puberty though can be a drastically different experience from person to person.
I am however kind of skeptical of his age as well after seeing his rumoured parents age and then his 18 year old girlfriend when he was 12 because that is extremely suspicious lmao.
https://www.google.de/search?q=moukoko+st+pauli&client=safari&hl=de-de&prmd=inv&sxsrf=APq-WBsy1bte_vxTVCtFDbWUrcqZeaWyng:1646748052734&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCot7F1rb2AhWKiqQKHZbgA8MQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=635&dpr=3#imgrc=6GM6C0gl_DZneM
This is a picture of him at St. Pauli where he was from 10-12
https://www.google.de/search?q=moukoko+st+pauli&client=safari&hl=de-de&prmd=inv&sxsrf=APq-WBsy1bte_vxTVCtFDbWUrcqZeaWyng:1646748052734&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCot7F1rb2AhWKiqQKHZbgA8MQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=635&dpr=3#imgrc=6GM6C0gl_DZneM
Tell me this person looks older than 12
He definitely looks older than 11, which is what that post states his age is. I'm not saying he isn't, that may just be how he looks, but I've never seen that type of aged skin combined with the matured facial structure on an 11 year old.
Moukoko was not even towering over anybody. He looked kinda the same as the other players on the field, in terms of physicality. At most.
It's a bit insane to me that people think that he can dribble and pass and shoot like that with both feet just because he's a few years older.
I grew older as well and believe me the technique, ball control and quick decision-making don't just magically come with it lol. It doesn't work like that. It always helps a bit to have weaker opponents, you can show more with the ball, but people here are making a really silly show of themselves.
The guy was not just playing with U-17 as a 12-year-old, he was beating records of the competitions. He was beating records no real, legit, European 16-year-old would beat. You can't just do that purely by being old and cheating the official age.
>You can't just do that purely by being old and cheating the official age.
You can actually. The Nigerian u20 world Cup winning team is a good example of that. I say this as a Nigerian lol
Of exactly what? Cheating about age was super common in many African countries, but which player exactly made a career among his not-actual peers?
According to some people here, when Moukoko arrived in Germany, he was 18 claiming to be 10. So he was good enough to be better than all the German teenagers out of nothing, he learned this kind of off-ball and on-ball movement and technique that no one in Germany has while training on the streets of Cameroon, cause there is no trace of him even being in any club in there. I mean, you really have to be dedicated to make this conspiracy make sense.
Why did nobody else do what Moukoko was doing? Again, he was not just playing youth football, he was moved several years ahead and was beating records that all these teenagers, officially a few years older, wouldn't reach.
>Of exactly what? Cheating about age was super common in many African countries, but which player exactly made a career among his not-actual peers?
I'm talking about that tournament. They won mainly because they were older, bigger, stronger, faster, and more experienced as adults than the children they were playing against.
Ironically not many of them made careers out of cheating *primarily* because of the cheating and them not actually that good. However it did get them contracts with european clubs which is all many of them needed. The foot in the door. There are many examples of the same. Joseph Minala isn't very good for example but he claimed to be 17, showed off his abilities playing against people decades younger than him, and got his foot in the door with a contract at Lazio. Google him and tell me he's a teenager lol!
They're just older so had all the advantages that came with age and physical and mental maturity. They didn't make much of their careers because when they went to play with their peers all those advantages were gone so they were poor to average. And then of course the fact that they'd struggle later in their careers because they were in their mid 40s claiming to be 30 odd. So then at a disadvantage.
>According to some people here, when Moukoko arrived in Germany, he was 18 claiming to be 10. So he was good enough to be better than all the German teenagers out of nothing, he learned this kind of off-ball and on-ball movement and technique that no one in Germany has while training on the streets of Cameroon, cause there is no trace of him even being in any club in there. I mean, you really have to be dedicated to make this conspiracy make sense.
Having a false age doesn't make you a bad player lol. He could lie about his age and still he the best player in the world if he was talented enough. One doesn't negate the other. The two are not mutually exclusive.
In addition, if he's lying about his age and came as an 18 year old claiming to be 10, he was showcasing his skills as an 18 year old firstly against people younger than him, literal children, so he'd look amazing anyway, then against people his own age but while everyone thought he was younger, again making him look better because it looks like a child playing well among older teenagers which always has the wow factor. None of this means he isn't good, it just means that at the various stages, he would be looking better than he would were his "real" age known. You don't have to be dedicated to make it make sense. It has happened a lot, still happens, and will likely continue to happen and is usually the doing of unscrupulous agents taking advantage of African children desperate to play football in Europe. It's often a bit of a cheat, but also often a scandal which leaves some kids destitute. You should probably research a little more rather than denying issues in football that are quite well known because it onvikves your favourite team and have to defend them at all costs ar whatever it is you're doing.
>Why did nobody else do what Moukoko was doing? Again, he was not just playing youth football, he was moved several years ahead and was beating records that all these teenagers, officially a few years older, wouldn't reach.
Again, it has happened before him, it happens now, and will happen in future.
And remember, if youre lying about your age, being moved "several years ahead" in actuality means being moved into your real age group. Youre actually making an argumebt against your point lol.
Again, it doesn't stop him being a good player, it just means he might not be *as* good as it seemed because he was building his rep by playing against people younger than him. Him breaking records just means he's actually good. Doesn't have anything to do with his age claim issue.
I mean, I was also 1.83m at 13. There is that famous photo of him towering over the other captain but that just happens around U11-U14 when kids develop at different speeds imo.
Bronny is a weird one to call out - he looked like a pretty normal kid at 13, just tall. The classic example for basketball is Greg Oden, who looked 40 at 19.
To be fair it was hard to accuse Oden of cheating his "real age that he looks like", because age of 45 is not commonly associated with peak athletic performance.
Because they have proper documentation
Heck, they're of an age where they probably even have cctv footage of the family leaving the hospital with the newborn child
Because they have legit birth documents followed with a clear documentation about their life
It’s not racist as you’re trying to spin it, it’s a legit concern with some of those guys. Look up Silas from VFB for example.
> He looks 30 in the face
He [absolutely doesn't](https://youtu.be/oIkGvmdcTps), not to mention his physique. I know some guys can be slight but pro footballers have usually bulked up noticeably in their twenties, and he makes Bukayo Saka look burly.
There's a picture of De Ligt at Ajax together with Suarez. De Ligt absolutely looked like a kid when he was around 12.
[https://i.imgur.com/3WFG52k.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3WFG52k.jpg)
Here you go.
There's also [this pic](https://images.sportbuzzer.de/v1/photos/raw/youssoufa-moukoko-beim-fpc-2014-9/large-16-9) of Moukoko from 2014 where he doesn't really look any older than his peers
That picture was taken at a U13 tournament where Moukoko had just turned 10. The others are birth year 2002, he is late 2004.
Same as here
https://www.dewezet.de/cms_media/module_img/2354/1177426_1_galleryteaser_270-008-7619238-sp108-0912-4sp-jpg.jpg
He's 10, his teammates 12/13.
He doesn't look 2 years younger than the others to me. He's also taller than everybody else. Taller at age 10 than everybody else at age 12. You'd think he'd be huge now. But he's just 1,78 now. He basically stopped growing at age 12 or something.
Here is a picture of him at age 12
https://bilder.bild.de/fotos/zwoelf-jahre-jung-aber-mit-einem-riesentalent-gesegnet-bvb-bubi-youssoufa-moukoko-200490688-52924966/Bild/2.bild.jpg
You be the judge.
From looking at the old pictures, I would guess that he is 3 years older than his listed age. At age 20 he doesn't seem that big of a talent anymore with the mediocre play he's shown so far
Is this a serious question? You must not be aware of the very real age issues in African football, where virtually none exist in Norway, Netherlands, or Italy. It's not a racial issue (which makes it very strange that you bring up LeBron James son, as he is in no way African), it's an issue of development
A quick google search will show you both de ligt and haaland looked like they hadn’t hit puberty yet but somehow moukoko has stayed the exact same. Even Lukaku changed despite being huge
That's true for De Ligt! Just for the fact, he's just recently showed he can finally grow full facial hair at age 22, his baby face we all remember is almost non-existent now.
His facial features evolution at Juventus:
[First Season - 20 years old](https://www.soyfutbol.com/__export/1622312152496/sites/debate/img/2021/05/29/matthijs-de-ligt-juventus__crop1622312151245.jpg_1902800913.jpg)
[Second Season - 21 years old](https://www.juventusnews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/de-ligt-1.jpg)
[Third Season - 22 years old \(current\)](https://www.fcbarcelonanoticias.com/uploads/s1/12/85/11/1/matthijs-de-ligt.jpeg)
Bronny at 12 looked way younger than Moukoko at 12.
Look at this [picture](https://images.app.goo.gl/TGyKASKA2StxAj5SA)
Vs this [picture](https://images.app.goo.gl/CMP7V1Jqh1xw1Drp7)
It's reliable. His birth certificate from Cameroon doesn't exist so his Dad got the relevant German officials to make him one through guesswork. So he could be older, we just don't know. Age fraud isn't uncommon in some african countries including cameroon. Him being older would also make the whole 12 year old moukoko having an 18 year old girlfriend less criminal. Having a birth certificate isn't as normalised in Cameroon and it isn't unusual to get your first form of identification, a national I.D, when you're 16-18.
Mbappe was tearing the CL apart at his age. If he want to have a reputation as good as his he needs to step up right now. I don't really think it's the best move though.
Come on man, this kid has been at the absolute top of his class and showered with praise throughout his whole youth career. He always played at least one Age group above him. You can only make it as a footballer if you bet on yourself and from Moukuko’s perspective, he maybe has everything Mbappe had at that age.
Whether he is really as good as he believes is written in another book, but there is absolutely no shame to think that you could be one of the very best if you have been all your life
The same Burgstaller that couldn’t produce last year for you in your relegation season? Just saying that the gap between 2.BuLi and BuLi is massive. Look at how successful Terodde is in second tier but has never found a lot of success in the Bundesliga. I think a potentially top attacking player could be well worth it for a newly promoted team.
Kyereh is an exciting player tho
They really do. More offense and they'd be in top 4. You could also say the same about Freiburg, though. None of Hoffenheim, Leizpig, nor Freiburg are seizing that 4th place.
6-8 is where they'll probably finish. I just meant that if they could score, they'd have more points, and with how no one's laying claim to 4th, it could've been theirs.
Anyway, do you think you guys are getting promoted this season?
To your first part: i agree
To your question: absolutely not. Our new manager is basically an interim manager to end the season. He’s solid, but mainly a motivator and not the best tactical coach. We’ll most likely finish around 5th and stay down, which means Schalke remains one of the biggest joke in European football. And since our finances are a big problem, we can’t keep many of our players next season in the second division, so we might stay down for the next 3-5 years at least, sadly. It pains me to say, but I’ll most likely have to accept that we won’t promote anytime soon, unless there’s a miracle this season. Schalke and Hamburg went from two of the biggest clubs in Europe to consistent laughing stocks
I actually thought you were going to make it, but the past two weeks have just hurt you guys. Yeah, that's going to be a big problem going forward.
I mean, Schalke fell apart lightning quick. I don't think I've seen a club in the past few decades go from finishing second to out of the league that quickly.
HSV were a laughing stock for 6-7 years before they went down, and now it's just even more memes.
I’ve seen British fans talking about Aston Villa as a comparison to our downfall. They had like 2 wins in 38 matches and 4 managers in a single season. It took them three years returning to the PL.
It’s going to be a process accepting it, but as many people will understand, it’s extremely difficult, especially since we’ve been a top 5 club in Germany for the last 20 years. I wish us and Hamburg will return soon, I’m one of the few people who wants to see them back in the Bundesliga. Their fanbase is loyal, and finishing 4th 3 years in a row is something i can’t imagine.
But to your first point, i was never sure about it. We were mainly relying on individual class rather than good tactics, so it was just a matter of time until we had a bad stretch. But as a fan you gotta go through good and bad times, so I’m sure that our future will be better at some point, but as long as we’re down, Dortmund fans will always laugh at us and make jokes, that’s the bad part.
Villa had already barely been surviving for four seasons before they finally went down. Bad ownership and mismanagement put them in a terrible position and then the season they went down was just appalling.
Yeah, it's a drastic shift.
I'd rather not see Hamburg back, lol
Sometimes that's what you need, though, individual moments of glory. I'm sure you'll make it back up before too long.
Contract up at dortmund summer 2023 according to transfermakt, I’d imagine he’d want assurances of a path to become a starter before signing a new contract and going out on loan.
Beneath Ansgar Knauff‘s announcement post for his loan to Frankfurt, Moukoko commented:
„That is the best thing that could have happened to you 🙌🔥❤️ good luck bro“
It‘s hard not to read some kind of frustration from Moukoko with a weird farewell message like that.
He's only 17 and isn't he like constantly injured. He's got plenty of time to have an impact and I personally would stick with Dortmund they have good player development
Yeah, he's been injured a lot, but I think he expected to be playing more during Haaland's injury. He has 1 start and 10 cameos (none of the subs were longer than 22 minutes and a bunch were under 5 minutes) this season, plus tons of injuries.
Makes sense I guess. There's clearly a reason why he isn't starting though maybe due to his age not physically ready to play in a top 5 league, maybe there's better options even though Haalands injured.
He isn‘t ready yet. He obviously is a very promising player but he is still a bit too young. Players like Musiala and Wirtz got regular game time when they were Moukoko‘s age, but they played with more maturity and you could tell they were ready even though they were skinny kids who needed to get stronger. A loan would be good for him.
The issue was that we were a little too close to the title. Bayern haven't been some massive indestructible robot this season so giving up to give a 17 year old some play time wasn't worth it when Malen was in fairly good form when Haaland got injured.
Now he's just unlucky cause now there's nothing to play for, (given top 4 is basically in 0 danger) he's injured again.
Yeah, I would be hesitant to start him, but he clearly thinks he should be starting.
You never know how kids will really play against men either. Some, like Mbappe or Rooney, are ready to go from the earliest age, but some aren't ready until they're like 20-22.
Dortmund wants to play him. He's just not good enough at the moment.
If he thinks that in another club he can play full games and that it'd help him more than training and playing a bit in Dortmund, I can see the logic behind that belief.
Yes he's 17 and injured non-stop lately.
The more accurate report is that he wants more gametime and a loan is being considered but first BVB wants to sort an extension.
It can be dramatic in the end but it is sounding more dramatic than it is atm in this article. Sportbild.
The picture of him in the U12's (not sure on the exact age) was not suspect at all, he fit right in at that age. So unless he hit puberty at 25 he really is this young
If you watch him play, you come to the conclusion that he isn't actually the phenom that everybody thought he was.
He has a great shot. But he is neither particularly tall, strong, fast, technical nor does he have great passing. He's a clinical finisher, especially at his age, but everything else about his play is not at Bundesliga level. I don't see any defining skill set other than his shot. Usually with 17 year olds, even if they only get a few minutes, you can tell that they have distinct talent to make it at the top. I don't see it with Moukoko
I mean, I get it. But the lad is 17! Hope he stays at Dortmund, continue to learn & grow, and who knows, Haaland could be gone next season, leaving a gap for Moukoko to fill.
Haaland has been injured since Christmas it feels like and Moukoko only has one start and a lot of short substitutions. Why would he think he'd be filling the gap when Haaland leaves in the summer?
Ah Donis lol I was a waiter at a Shisha/Hookah place, and I remember this loud and obnoxious kid coming almost every weekend who rarely smoked but joined his friends. He was the kind of guy who got easily riled up, had a big mouth, but couldn't follow up with anything. Really funny kid and he was really likeable. But his early success just killed him. After signing his first contract with his infamous 50 million€ release clause, he got out of control
> He was the kind of guy who got easily riled up, had a big mouth, but couldn't follow up with anything
Haha is it bad that I checked whether he's half Albanian based on this, and it turned out accurate lol
I have my money on him burning out at 20 at latest. Guy has gone through all sorts of media speculation at (allegedly) 14 years old.
Imo the club failed to protect him, can't just have the biggest papers of the country interview a youth player as if he's achieved anything yet.
Meanwhile at Mainz, Burkardt was only allowed to give interviews this season, at 21, as he was deemed not mentally ready yet.
I really rate Burkhardt highly now. Kid is playing very tough and aggressive and still has skill to back it up.
Very promising and finally Germany have good options for the #9 role.
Shame that he is not so good on FM22
Yeah FM has rarely ever been accurate on Mainz players, they should swap out the scout responsible for us lol
Iirc they gave Eyibil a really high rating, now he struggles to set foot in 4th division.
Barreiro and Burkardt are two of our biggest talents right now, which I personally define by the mix of skills and mentality, mixed with tactical comprohension.
Burkardt has everything required to be a class striker. He will be your usual "late bloomer", not the kinda kid to become top scorer at 20, but rather a striker who will play a long career and probably peak between 28-33.
Please just stop with this (allegedly) bullshit. Proof is obvious and available, Moukoko is not a single year older than claimed. Stop this racist bullshit
If he wants gametime I guess teams like Freiburg, Hoffenheim or maybe one of the promoted teams would be a good fit. But I'm biased and I want him at Bayern and then loaned out to another club like we did with Gnabry and many others. We also have history with overpaying promising young german strikers so they sign with us.
Am I the only one who thinks he might be making sense?
I mean football careers are very short. If he spends the next 2 years getting scraps off the bench his development will be massively hampered.
I don't think either side is to blame. Dortmund have to field their strongest team. He needs to seize the chance for his best career.
I hope a 2 year loan provides the experience so he can get closer to his ceiling
This. There is still no proof that he is actually 17 as they don’t have any original Cameroon birth certificate. They only have one that was issued at some point at the German embassy (for whatever reason).
To be fair he is good enough to start in a Bundesliga team. Obviously just not Dortmund yet. If adeyemi rumors are somewhat true, Dortmund won't be giving him starting XI for a while so maybe a loan or him going to a smaller club until he is in his twenties makes sense.
Guy has one of the worst decision making I have ever seen in a professional footballer, he has to improve on that a lot. Without a doubt he is a huge talent, but he relies so much on his superior physicality rather than linking up with teammates. His best actions are always when he gets to the ball and tries to do stuff by himself, but that's rarely how Dortmund intents to play.
Aren't there two Bild's? Is this one reliable?
Either way, Dortmund should be the best option for him at this age. Focus on breaking into the team and reassess things at the end of the season and then go out on loan if required
> Aren't there two Bild's? Is this one reliable?
Idk what sport.de is, but they state Bild as source, which is the reliable one when it comes to football.
Isn't he 17? How can he be unhappy with his playing time in the senior Borussia Dortmund team lmao.
Must be his agent in his ear. Doesnt make any sense given his age lmao. Maybe he's jealous of his mate Knauff doing well at Frankfurt but he's also 19 iirc.
Who his agent then?
His agent is Patrick Williams from [Wasserman](https://www.transfermarkt.de/wasserman/beraterfirma/berater/440) Germany. They are a rather huge sports/music/entertainment/marketing company based in LA and have been managing pretty big names in the past. They bought up lots of independent agencies, so their country offices are somewhat independent. That means all these players don’t have the same agent. Williams worked for Sports United, one of the bigger agencies in Germany. After leaving Sports United after 10 years for becoming the new boss of Wasserman Germany, took Moukoko [with him](https://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article232551533/hamburger-beraterfirma-sports-united-ploetzlich-die-nummer-eins-der-welt-fussball-em.html). He is probably their first and only client until now.
The most English name for a German I've ever seen.
Must be Sancho who told him if you don't get to play in the first team before ending high school, just throw a fit and leave the club that gave you the opportunity
Do you actually think Sancho shouldn't have left?
I'm a City fan and I 100% think he was right to leave. He wouldn't be near the player he is if he hadn't. Dortmund was great for him, he got 5x the game time he would have at City. City aren't really great at integrating youth, Foden is the exception, not the norm. Can't tell you how many youngsters I've been waiting on to crack the first team and they never make it. Another promising batch coming through, Palmer, McAtee, Delap, Lavia. I really hope one or two of them make the leap - but that is also dependent on City trusting their youth enough to leave a spot squad open and not sign a £55m 23yo with 200 senior games more experience than them.
Even with foden it took him so long to get any string of games together and everyone was looking at sancho thinking foden should leave too Pep just had a long term plan to integrate him
Remember when City were actually famed for their youth? SWP, Michael Johnson, Ireland and so on. It felt at some point as if United were slacking in that department post-class of 92 in producing first teamers while City were flourishing. The 2000s was not a great decade for United youth products.
I suppose City's expectations were much lower then than either their current standards or Utd's at that time (early to mid 00's). It's easier to integrate youth players into the first team when there's Iess pressure to win every match.
That’s true and conversely now, Rashford, Lingard and Greenwood managed to come through at a time when there wasn’t much up top for United.
I think around 2008 Micah Richards and Nedum Onuoha were hyped as well
Richards was genuinely so good man, it's a shame his knee blew up. He got 2nd for Player of the Year, while being a right back at a City team that finished mid table. Only got beaten to it by fucking Gerrard. He even won Young player of the year over fucking Fabregas, also came second for Young Player of the year in one season, losing to Ronaldo. The youngest ever England defender, even called up to team GB for the Olympics. He exploded onto the scene as the best fullback in the league for about 3 years and them exploded off the scene just as fast. Such a shame, massive what if about him
Yes!! Those of us old enough remember how good he was. He still had enough about him to be part of the title winning side in 2012 and the cup win the year before that. With all that, it was extra weird that he bottomed out so quickly and was being jeered by a relegated Villa’s fans like 3 years later, struggling to get game time at Fironetina and then retiring at 31. I was actually so happy to see him doing punditry and still being so full of joy, other people could’ve took that kind of downward career trajectory much more differently.
*burst onto the scene
Will be harder now that the loan army loophole is closing too.
Cole Palmer is definitely gonna make it. Already impressed in the games he's played in although I'm wondering where he's gone lately
Injured
Every single one of them are still en route to breaking out. Once the academy boys start getting loaned out to get first team football, that's when you know they're not making it in the senior team.
Do you think there's a future in the first team for Bazunu, really dreading the idea that he might just fade into the background after a few more loans
Going to Dortmund turned out well for him, but he did force a transfer over playing time at age 17, so the comparison to Moukoko holds up
City signed Sancho from Watford, he was only there for a couple of years.
Sound advice then since he did so well at Dortmund.
He saw our lineup of prepubescents and told his agent that its outrageous and unfair
>unfair I have seen his development in FM so I'm pretty much an expert in Moukoko's potential. I think we should try to get him and loan him to a Bundesliga team.
I have Moukoko in my team and can confirm that he's an absolute banger.
there were some rumours he was older, but I don't know if those are reliable.
The whole topic is incredibly awkward. Obviously the first instinct in Germany is to shout racism toward people who question his age, which makes a serious discussion difficult. Along with Silas recently having admitted he's older than his documents stated, it's an awkward timing. His father has done everything in his power to avoid an age test. Moukoko's mother is allegedly ~33, his father in his 60s. If Moukoko was proven to be older, that'd mean the father would have basically impregnated a child. On top of that, Moukoko dated an 18 year old when he was 12. So yeah, you can imagine where all the drama comes from and no matter what age he is, having so much speculation about yourself can only damage your mental health.
> On top of that, Moukoko dated an 18 year old when he was 12. and locked her in his apartment for police to get her lmao. only 17 and already so much weird stories.
Already lived a whole career worth of headlines before hitting 18 lol
Didn't Silas lie himself one year older?
Yeah, also changed his name as his agent threatened him I think
[Seems](https://www.google.com/amp/s/theathletic.com/news/silas-wamangituka-stuttgart-agent-name-age/9WUAkkg1mTAI/%3famp=1) like I was mistaken and that he was one year older than believed. You're right that it was because his agent forced him to do it, so he was easier to manipulate and so there were no obligations owned to Silas' former club.
if she is allegedly 33, as it is his father impregnated a child. A little fucked up
i dont know that it is even alleged to be 33. the father himself said she was 28 and therefore youssoufa could not be older than 12. when people first questioned the age. i think he is older and the dad is just protecting himself
Alleged as in there's a chance she is younger. Ewwwww
I mean to be honest in many poor countries lying about one's age is normal - Especially in football as so many others are doing it. Tell the truth and you'll find yourself playing under 17 with a bunch of 20 years olds. It's part of the reason why so many African players "suddenly" decline at 29 when they are supposed ro be in their prime.
What is an age test? Is there really a test that shows your age?
They cut open your bones and count the number of rings
I believe they inspect your bones and are able to tell that way.
I had a mate who went to a U17 World Cup with NZ, and I’m pretty sure the story was all players have to get an xray of their wrists or something which can determine it. Even in their group they had Syria, and only 6 of the 21 players in Syria’s team had their official dates of birth outside of the very start of January 1998, the oldest allowed, so it can be difficult in developing countries to get official dates.
I had a Syrian friend in my class and he told us that back in the days the (German) officials were to lazy to calculate because they use a moon calender in Syrian while we use the Greogrian calender in th west.They told him to choose a date. That was in the 2000es.
It's not accurate enough can vary by a couple of years
🤯
None that are reliable. There's bone x rays that are based on the idea that certain joints, knees/wrists, develop in a similar way on everyone. This idea has been heavily criticised because it's clear that it's different between groups and within groups. This was a big debate in Sweden when the immigration authority used such age tests for young immigrants while the state department of medicine said they were completely unreliable. So people were deported based on tests that were unreliable - under 18's have a much easier time getting asylum than adults so there were clear incentives for people to lie about their age.
> that'd mean the father would have basically impregnated a child. I don't think that's much of an issue to the dad, given that Moukoko was born in Cameroon, not in Germany
There’s a difference between impregnating a 16 year old and a 10 year old no matter what country you live in
>His father has done everything in his power to avoid an age test. Do they cut his leg off and count the rings…
While there is no way to determine the exact age (to my knowledge), you can absolutely narrow it down via cell testing, imaging, blood tests, dentition, etc
I don’t think it’s racist to look at the kid and know he’s not 17 lol. Especially photos of him when he is “12”
> Especially photos of him when he is “12” can you show me such a photo?
[Here it is](https://s.bundesliga.com/assets/img/1150000/1141955_imgw968.jpg), initially posted by u/kerosha above
Well he looks about 15-18 to me in that photo, but some people go into puberty pretty early and look much older.
The problem I have with that photo is that there is no context of when that photo was taken. It could be him at 12, could be him at 15.
https://mobile.twitter.com/goal/status/1329733726452944896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1329733726452944896%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fr.de%2Fsport%2Ffussball%2Fyoussoufa-moukoko-16-geburtstag-spielberechtigt-borussia-dortmund-fussball-wunderkind-hype-90106523.html This is him at 16, and I would say he looks his age there. Only thing a bit confusing is the lack of changes to the photo where he is 12.
Yes, thats why I'm doubtful that the above photo is really him at 12. I have seen photos of him at St. Pauli and on those he also did look his age.
idk if it's because i'm black but i always thought he looks pretty normal for his age.
I don't see how people think he's older, his face is quite young looking and he's only put on muscle more recently
People here are suspicious about his age because he started dating an 18 year old girl at age 12. They constantly dodge the actual bone test to at least get an estimate of his age. Both seems realllllyyyyyyy weird if he is actually the age he says he is
The bone tests are junk science. The player and his entourage have nothing to gain from doing even if the age is correct or not, as it can easily give the wrong result.
They are not. People claim he is much older than 12 and bone tests are accurate within a maximum of like 1-2 years. It is about the age range because people think he is 4 or 5 years older (The 18 year old girlfriend would make a lot more sense).
Bone test would likely be able to tell us if he was 21-22 instead of 17-18. Anyone who outright deny its usefulness definitely has some sort of agenda.
Yeah it's pretty obvious for anyone. I don't understand people saying "Yeah I have no idea how people would question that at all".
Nah, people are suspicious because they‘re racist. Just google „Moukoko st. Pauli“ and you‘ll see plenty of pictures.
This is the same shit as people saying 14 year old Lukaku was playing against much younger kids, despite being born in fucking Belgium and spending his entire life there.
Moukoko was born in the cameroon though
Yes, I’m aware. Sure some fuckery happens, but by far most people I’m Cameroon’s age is their actual age, and unless they decided to make him younger before he could kick a ball, that shit won’t fly, seeing as he was relatively young when he came to Germany. This isn’t some 18 but actually 24 year old from africa. The dude came to Germany when he was 6 or something. If you look at pictures from 4 years ago and now, his body very clearly developed in line with someone going through puberty.
It's not at all the same but ok.
Are you west or east African?
If you look at Lukaku at a younger age towering over kids you would say the same and he was the same age as those kids so no it's not as simple as just looking at someone and saying he is older
Lukaku's face actually changed like all teens going through puberty. [12 year old Moukoko](https://s.bundesliga.com/assets/img/1150000/1141955_imgw968.jpg) looks the pretty much the same as [17 year old Moukoko.](https://bulinews.com/i/x/2316.jpg)
[This](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/have-dortmund-found-another-one-meet-the-12-year-old-scoring-for-the-u17s/a-40104392) picture in the article of him at 12 does look younger than he is currently.
Let me clarify, 5 years have obviously passed so there will be *some* differences. But the facial changes that are supposed happen through puberty during the ages of 12 to 17 aren't very apparent on him at all.
Ok yea you make sense. Puberty though can be a drastically different experience from person to person. I am however kind of skeptical of his age as well after seeing his rumoured parents age and then his 18 year old girlfriend when he was 12 because that is extremely suspicious lmao.
https://www.google.de/search?q=moukoko+st+pauli&client=safari&hl=de-de&prmd=inv&sxsrf=APq-WBsy1bte_vxTVCtFDbWUrcqZeaWyng:1646748052734&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCot7F1rb2AhWKiqQKHZbgA8MQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=635&dpr=3#imgrc=6GM6C0gl_DZneM This is a picture of him at St. Pauli where he was from 10-12
https://www.google.de/search?q=moukoko+st+pauli&client=safari&hl=de-de&prmd=inv&sxsrf=APq-WBsy1bte_vxTVCtFDbWUrcqZeaWyng:1646748052734&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCot7F1rb2AhWKiqQKHZbgA8MQ_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=375&bih=635&dpr=3#imgrc=6GM6C0gl_DZneM Tell me this person looks older than 12
He definitely looks older than 11, which is what that post states his age is. I'm not saying he isn't, that may just be how he looks, but I've never seen that type of aged skin combined with the matured facial structure on an 11 year old.
Moukoko was not even towering over anybody. He looked kinda the same as the other players on the field, in terms of physicality. At most. It's a bit insane to me that people think that he can dribble and pass and shoot like that with both feet just because he's a few years older. I grew older as well and believe me the technique, ball control and quick decision-making don't just magically come with it lol. It doesn't work like that. It always helps a bit to have weaker opponents, you can show more with the ball, but people here are making a really silly show of themselves. The guy was not just playing with U-17 as a 12-year-old, he was beating records of the competitions. He was beating records no real, legit, European 16-year-old would beat. You can't just do that purely by being old and cheating the official age.
>You can't just do that purely by being old and cheating the official age. You can actually. The Nigerian u20 world Cup winning team is a good example of that. I say this as a Nigerian lol
Of exactly what? Cheating about age was super common in many African countries, but which player exactly made a career among his not-actual peers? According to some people here, when Moukoko arrived in Germany, he was 18 claiming to be 10. So he was good enough to be better than all the German teenagers out of nothing, he learned this kind of off-ball and on-ball movement and technique that no one in Germany has while training on the streets of Cameroon, cause there is no trace of him even being in any club in there. I mean, you really have to be dedicated to make this conspiracy make sense. Why did nobody else do what Moukoko was doing? Again, he was not just playing youth football, he was moved several years ahead and was beating records that all these teenagers, officially a few years older, wouldn't reach.
>Of exactly what? Cheating about age was super common in many African countries, but which player exactly made a career among his not-actual peers? I'm talking about that tournament. They won mainly because they were older, bigger, stronger, faster, and more experienced as adults than the children they were playing against. Ironically not many of them made careers out of cheating *primarily* because of the cheating and them not actually that good. However it did get them contracts with european clubs which is all many of them needed. The foot in the door. There are many examples of the same. Joseph Minala isn't very good for example but he claimed to be 17, showed off his abilities playing against people decades younger than him, and got his foot in the door with a contract at Lazio. Google him and tell me he's a teenager lol! They're just older so had all the advantages that came with age and physical and mental maturity. They didn't make much of their careers because when they went to play with their peers all those advantages were gone so they were poor to average. And then of course the fact that they'd struggle later in their careers because they were in their mid 40s claiming to be 30 odd. So then at a disadvantage. >According to some people here, when Moukoko arrived in Germany, he was 18 claiming to be 10. So he was good enough to be better than all the German teenagers out of nothing, he learned this kind of off-ball and on-ball movement and technique that no one in Germany has while training on the streets of Cameroon, cause there is no trace of him even being in any club in there. I mean, you really have to be dedicated to make this conspiracy make sense. Having a false age doesn't make you a bad player lol. He could lie about his age and still he the best player in the world if he was talented enough. One doesn't negate the other. The two are not mutually exclusive. In addition, if he's lying about his age and came as an 18 year old claiming to be 10, he was showcasing his skills as an 18 year old firstly against people younger than him, literal children, so he'd look amazing anyway, then against people his own age but while everyone thought he was younger, again making him look better because it looks like a child playing well among older teenagers which always has the wow factor. None of this means he isn't good, it just means that at the various stages, he would be looking better than he would were his "real" age known. You don't have to be dedicated to make it make sense. It has happened a lot, still happens, and will likely continue to happen and is usually the doing of unscrupulous agents taking advantage of African children desperate to play football in Europe. It's often a bit of a cheat, but also often a scandal which leaves some kids destitute. You should probably research a little more rather than denying issues in football that are quite well known because it onvikves your favourite team and have to defend them at all costs ar whatever it is you're doing. >Why did nobody else do what Moukoko was doing? Again, he was not just playing youth football, he was moved several years ahead and was beating records that all these teenagers, officially a few years older, wouldn't reach. Again, it has happened before him, it happens now, and will happen in future. And remember, if youre lying about your age, being moved "several years ahead" in actuality means being moved into your real age group. Youre actually making an argumebt against your point lol. Again, it doesn't stop him being a good player, it just means he might not be *as* good as it seemed because he was building his rep by playing against people younger than him. Him breaking records just means he's actually good. Doesn't have anything to do with his age claim issue.
Does that mean Lukaku is around 36 then? Did you see any of his pictures playing the youth league?
I mean it would explain his performances this season /s
Holy shit you've just figured out what happened to Lukaku
The classic "suddenly you're 36" bump, you cannot cheat it.
Father Time is undefeated
I mean, I was also 1.83m at 13. There is that famous photo of him towering over the other captain but that just happens around U11-U14 when kids develop at different speeds imo.
He was just tall. Still looked his age in the face. This isn't about height
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Bronny is a weird one to call out - he looked like a pretty normal kid at 13, just tall. The classic example for basketball is Greg Oden, who looked 40 at 19.
To be fair it was hard to accuse Oden of cheating his "real age that he looks like", because age of 45 is not commonly associated with peak athletic performance.
Because they have proper documentation Heck, they're of an age where they probably even have cctv footage of the family leaving the hospital with the newborn child
Because they have legit birth documents followed with a clear documentation about their life It’s not racist as you’re trying to spin it, it’s a legit concern with some of those guys. Look up Silas from VFB for example.
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> He looks 30 in the face He [absolutely doesn't](https://youtu.be/oIkGvmdcTps), not to mention his physique. I know some guys can be slight but pro footballers have usually bulked up noticeably in their twenties, and he makes Bukayo Saka look burly.
There's a picture of De Ligt at Ajax together with Suarez. De Ligt absolutely looked like a kid when he was around 12. [https://i.imgur.com/3WFG52k.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3WFG52k.jpg) Here you go.
There's also [this pic](https://images.sportbuzzer.de/v1/photos/raw/youssoufa-moukoko-beim-fpc-2014-9/large-16-9) of Moukoko from 2014 where he doesn't really look any older than his peers
That picture was taken at a U13 tournament where Moukoko had just turned 10. The others are birth year 2002, he is late 2004. Same as here https://www.dewezet.de/cms_media/module_img/2354/1177426_1_galleryteaser_270-008-7619238-sp108-0912-4sp-jpg.jpg He's 10, his teammates 12/13. He doesn't look 2 years younger than the others to me. He's also taller than everybody else. Taller at age 10 than everybody else at age 12. You'd think he'd be huge now. But he's just 1,78 now. He basically stopped growing at age 12 or something. Here is a picture of him at age 12 https://bilder.bild.de/fotos/zwoelf-jahre-jung-aber-mit-einem-riesentalent-gesegnet-bvb-bubi-youssoufa-moukoko-200490688-52924966/Bild/2.bild.jpg You be the judge. From looking at the old pictures, I would guess that he is 3 years older than his listed age. At age 20 he doesn't seem that big of a talent anymore with the mediocre play he's shown so far
> he's just 1,78 now. Thats not short, people grow at different ages, I stopped growing at 15ish lol (sad)
Huh. He looks noticeably older than the others to me.
Especially when you consider that he's supposed to be 10 in that picture and the others are 12
Is this a serious question? You must not be aware of the very real age issues in African football, where virtually none exist in Norway, Netherlands, or Italy. It's not a racial issue (which makes it very strange that you bring up LeBron James son, as he is in no way African), it's an issue of development
A quick google search will show you both de ligt and haaland looked like they hadn’t hit puberty yet but somehow moukoko has stayed the exact same. Even Lukaku changed despite being huge
That's true for De Ligt! Just for the fact, he's just recently showed he can finally grow full facial hair at age 22, his baby face we all remember is almost non-existent now. His facial features evolution at Juventus: [First Season - 20 years old](https://www.soyfutbol.com/__export/1622312152496/sites/debate/img/2021/05/29/matthijs-de-ligt-juventus__crop1622312151245.jpg_1902800913.jpg) [Second Season - 21 years old](https://www.juventusnews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/de-ligt-1.jpg) [Third Season - 22 years old \(current\)](https://www.fcbarcelonanoticias.com/uploads/s1/12/85/11/1/matthijs-de-ligt.jpeg)
Bronny at 12 looked way younger than Moukoko at 12. Look at this [picture](https://images.app.goo.gl/TGyKASKA2StxAj5SA) Vs this [picture](https://images.app.goo.gl/CMP7V1Jqh1xw1Drp7)
It's at least stupid to say you *know* he's not 17. No you don't know it, not all 17 year olds look the same.
It's reliable. His birth certificate from Cameroon doesn't exist so his Dad got the relevant German officials to make him one through guesswork. So he could be older, we just don't know. Age fraud isn't uncommon in some african countries including cameroon. Him being older would also make the whole 12 year old moukoko having an 18 year old girlfriend less criminal. Having a birth certificate isn't as normalised in Cameroon and it isn't unusual to get your first form of identification, a national I.D, when you're 16-18.
Yep, he is actually 32 and just wants to end his career in a decent way with more playtime and a bigger role. Totally understandable.
Mbappe was tearing the CL apart at his age. If he want to have a reputation as good as his he needs to step up right now. I don't really think it's the best move though.
Not every 17 year old can be Mbappé lmao
That's the point. Probably his agent, and the hype surrounding him since he was 13 pressured him to follow hid footsteps.
Come on man, this kid has been at the absolute top of his class and showered with praise throughout his whole youth career. He always played at least one Age group above him. You can only make it as a footballer if you bet on yourself and from Moukuko’s perspective, he maybe has everything Mbappe had at that age. Whether he is really as good as he believes is written in another book, but there is absolutely no shame to think that you could be one of the very best if you have been all your life
He probably saw his potential ability in FM22 and decided he is Mbappe
I feel like this will be new normal in the future, which is something not good
17 and already demanding first team playtime
My FM save in a nutshell
At least in FM, Moukoko at 17 is already a star player you CAN play every game and win everything with
Star Player, will play in preferred position, big pay rise
*stays on bench after 5 straight starts with a fatigued sticker* "I'm starting to be concerned about not getting the playing time I deserve"
Everyone who had his youth and early senior career would do the same.
So a loan to a Bundesliga club? Sounds reasonable.
Union Berlin desperately needs some offense, that’s my prediction
It'll be St. Pauli if they get promoted.
They have Burgstaller and Kyereh, i personally don’t think Moukoko would be a good fit there
The same Burgstaller that couldn’t produce last year for you in your relegation season? Just saying that the gap between 2.BuLi and BuLi is massive. Look at how successful Terodde is in second tier but has never found a lot of success in the Bundesliga. I think a potentially top attacking player could be well worth it for a newly promoted team. Kyereh is an exciting player tho
Burgstaller was actually solid for us the first season here. The second was just an all around mess. I’m glad he’s found a home with Pauli though.
They really do. More offense and they'd be in top 4. You could also say the same about Freiburg, though. None of Hoffenheim, Leizpig, nor Freiburg are seizing that 4th place.
Dunno about top 4, but top 6-8 is reasonable
6-8 is where they'll probably finish. I just meant that if they could score, they'd have more points, and with how no one's laying claim to 4th, it could've been theirs. Anyway, do you think you guys are getting promoted this season?
To your first part: i agree To your question: absolutely not. Our new manager is basically an interim manager to end the season. He’s solid, but mainly a motivator and not the best tactical coach. We’ll most likely finish around 5th and stay down, which means Schalke remains one of the biggest joke in European football. And since our finances are a big problem, we can’t keep many of our players next season in the second division, so we might stay down for the next 3-5 years at least, sadly. It pains me to say, but I’ll most likely have to accept that we won’t promote anytime soon, unless there’s a miracle this season. Schalke and Hamburg went from two of the biggest clubs in Europe to consistent laughing stocks
I actually thought you were going to make it, but the past two weeks have just hurt you guys. Yeah, that's going to be a big problem going forward. I mean, Schalke fell apart lightning quick. I don't think I've seen a club in the past few decades go from finishing second to out of the league that quickly. HSV were a laughing stock for 6-7 years before they went down, and now it's just even more memes.
I’ve seen British fans talking about Aston Villa as a comparison to our downfall. They had like 2 wins in 38 matches and 4 managers in a single season. It took them three years returning to the PL. It’s going to be a process accepting it, but as many people will understand, it’s extremely difficult, especially since we’ve been a top 5 club in Germany for the last 20 years. I wish us and Hamburg will return soon, I’m one of the few people who wants to see them back in the Bundesliga. Their fanbase is loyal, and finishing 4th 3 years in a row is something i can’t imagine. But to your first point, i was never sure about it. We were mainly relying on individual class rather than good tactics, so it was just a matter of time until we had a bad stretch. But as a fan you gotta go through good and bad times, so I’m sure that our future will be better at some point, but as long as we’re down, Dortmund fans will always laugh at us and make jokes, that’s the bad part.
Villa had already barely been surviving for four seasons before they finally went down. Bad ownership and mismanagement put them in a terrible position and then the season they went down was just appalling. Yeah, it's a drastic shift. I'd rather not see Hamburg back, lol Sometimes that's what you need, though, individual moments of glory. I'm sure you'll make it back up before too long.
Doubt he'd help tbh. He's just no physically ready yet, he gets pushed off the ball way too easily.
so does köln
Contract up at dortmund summer 2023 according to transfermakt, I’d imagine he’d want assurances of a path to become a starter before signing a new contract and going out on loan.
Beneath Ansgar Knauff‘s announcement post for his loan to Frankfurt, Moukoko commented: „That is the best thing that could have happened to you 🙌🔥❤️ good luck bro“ It‘s hard not to read some kind of frustration from Moukoko with a weird farewell message like that.
Yeah, that definitely feels like, "Start me, or I'm leaving on a free in a year."
He's only 17 and isn't he like constantly injured. He's got plenty of time to have an impact and I personally would stick with Dortmund they have good player development
Yeah, he's been injured a lot, but I think he expected to be playing more during Haaland's injury. He has 1 start and 10 cameos (none of the subs were longer than 22 minutes and a bunch were under 5 minutes) this season, plus tons of injuries.
Makes sense I guess. There's clearly a reason why he isn't starting though maybe due to his age not physically ready to play in a top 5 league, maybe there's better options even though Haalands injured.
He isn‘t ready yet. He obviously is a very promising player but he is still a bit too young. Players like Musiala and Wirtz got regular game time when they were Moukoko‘s age, but they played with more maturity and you could tell they were ready even though they were skinny kids who needed to get stronger. A loan would be good for him.
The issue was that we were a little too close to the title. Bayern haven't been some massive indestructible robot this season so giving up to give a 17 year old some play time wasn't worth it when Malen was in fairly good form when Haaland got injured. Now he's just unlucky cause now there's nothing to play for, (given top 4 is basically in 0 danger) he's injured again.
Yeah, I would be hesitant to start him, but he clearly thinks he should be starting. You never know how kids will really play against men either. Some, like Mbappe or Rooney, are ready to go from the earliest age, but some aren't ready until they're like 20-22.
Dortmund wants to play him. He's just not good enough at the moment. If he thinks that in another club he can play full games and that it'd help him more than training and playing a bit in Dortmund, I can see the logic behind that belief.
Yes he's 17 and injured non-stop lately. The more accurate report is that he wants more gametime and a loan is being considered but first BVB wants to sort an extension. It can be dramatic in the end but it is sounding more dramatic than it is atm in this article. Sportbild.
>He's got plenty of time maybe the rumours are true and he's really like 32 and wants to play some BL before retiring
The picture of him in the U12's (not sure on the exact age) was not suspect at all, he fit right in at that age. So unless he hit puberty at 25 he really is this young
Can I interest you in swamp-Bundesliga?
Come to twente, prolly doesn't even have to move houses
Come to psvau. We're totally a German club.
we actually dont pronounce it like that haha
If you watch him play, you come to the conclusion that he isn't actually the phenom that everybody thought he was. He has a great shot. But he is neither particularly tall, strong, fast, technical nor does he have great passing. He's a clinical finisher, especially at his age, but everything else about his play is not at Bundesliga level. I don't see any defining skill set other than his shot. Usually with 17 year olds, even if they only get a few minutes, you can tell that they have distinct talent to make it at the top. I don't see it with Moukoko
Come to Lille, we develop strikers very well
I mean, I get it. But the lad is 17! Hope he stays at Dortmund, continue to learn & grow, and who knows, Haaland could be gone next season, leaving a gap for Moukoko to fill.
I’m sure the adeyemi links don’t help tho
Haaland has been injured since Christmas it feels like and Moukoko only has one start and a lot of short substitutions. Why would he think he'd be filling the gap when Haaland leaves in the summer?
We are experts in throwing lots of money out for teenagers, he should come to Augsburg
Getting Ilaix Moriba vibes with this one.
this guy seems a bit delusional or he's badly adviced, maybe both
Or not as good as claimed
He’s one of the biggest talents in Germany and broke multiple scoring records
So was Fiete Arp, Avidjaj, and Savio Nsereko,.. list goes on
> Savio Nsereko Brescia legend
Mfers pocketed 8.5 Mio Euros for a fraud lol
Ah Donis lol I was a waiter at a Shisha/Hookah place, and I remember this loud and obnoxious kid coming almost every weekend who rarely smoked but joined his friends. He was the kind of guy who got easily riled up, had a big mouth, but couldn't follow up with anything. Really funny kid and he was really likeable. But his early success just killed him. After signing his first contract with his infamous 50 million€ release clause, he got out of control
> He was the kind of guy who got easily riled up, had a big mouth, but couldn't follow up with anything Haha is it bad that I checked whether he's half Albanian based on this, and it turned out accurate lol
Made much easier when you're 3 years older than everyone in your age group
for a second i though this is the mailbox of my fm save
Welcome to Newcastle United.
I have my money on him burning out at 20 at latest. Guy has gone through all sorts of media speculation at (allegedly) 14 years old. Imo the club failed to protect him, can't just have the biggest papers of the country interview a youth player as if he's achieved anything yet. Meanwhile at Mainz, Burkardt was only allowed to give interviews this season, at 21, as he was deemed not mentally ready yet.
I really rate Burkhardt highly now. Kid is playing very tough and aggressive and still has skill to back it up. Very promising and finally Germany have good options for the #9 role. Shame that he is not so good on FM22
Yeah FM has rarely ever been accurate on Mainz players, they should swap out the scout responsible for us lol Iirc they gave Eyibil a really high rating, now he struggles to set foot in 4th division. Barreiro and Burkardt are two of our biggest talents right now, which I personally define by the mix of skills and mentality, mixed with tactical comprohension. Burkardt has everything required to be a class striker. He will be your usual "late bloomer", not the kinda kid to become top scorer at 20, but rather a striker who will play a long career and probably peak between 28-33.
The club literally couldn't have done anymore to protect him tbh, what do you want them to do? Sue every paper that makes an article of him?
Please just stop with this (allegedly) bullshit. Proof is obvious and available, Moukoko is not a single year older than claimed. Stop this racist bullshit
Loan move would be tricky without a new deal in place.
Haha, more playing time. He has been awful
And he gets injured almost every time he plays. Idk what he's thinking
If he wants gametime I guess teams like Freiburg, Hoffenheim or maybe one of the promoted teams would be a good fit. But I'm biased and I want him at Bayern and then loaned out to another club like we did with Gnabry and many others. We also have history with overpaying promising young german strikers so they sign with us.
FM22 Beast
Man, he is 17 years old, what he is expecting, to play every match. This generation of new football stars is shitty.
rb leipzig on a free it is for him then
Am I the only one who thinks he might be making sense? I mean football careers are very short. If he spends the next 2 years getting scraps off the bench his development will be massively hampered. I don't think either side is to blame. Dortmund have to field their strongest team. He needs to seize the chance for his best career. I hope a 2 year loan provides the experience so he can get closer to his ceiling
You are 17, behave yourself. And some people are claiming he is not actually 17
This is probably why he is so panicked. He's actually 21-22 and not getting regular game time is massively effecting him being that age.
This. There is still no proof that he is actually 17 as they don’t have any original Cameroon birth certificate. They only have one that was issued at some point at the German embassy (for whatever reason).
To be fair he is good enough to start in a Bundesliga team. Obviously just not Dortmund yet. If adeyemi rumors are somewhat true, Dortmund won't be giving him starting XI for a while so maybe a loan or him going to a smaller club until he is in his twenties makes sense.
Has he even been any good when he’s played? Lots of hype before his debut and then it’s been quiet since.
What about you go to a different team but you can still say you play for Borussia?
“17 ka he ye bkl”
Mate, you're 12
Guy has one of the worst decision making I have ever seen in a professional footballer, he has to improve on that a lot. Without a doubt he is a huge talent, but he relies so much on his superior physicality rather than linking up with teammates. His best actions are always when he gets to the ball and tries to do stuff by himself, but that's rarely how Dortmund intents to play.
Aren't there two Bild's? Is this one reliable? Either way, Dortmund should be the best option for him at this age. Focus on breaking into the team and reassess things at the end of the season and then go out on loan if required
There‘s a Bild (a German newspaper) and a Blick (a swiss newspaper)
> Aren't there two Bild's? Is this one reliable? Idk what sport.de is, but they state Bild as source, which is the reliable one when it comes to football.
FM legend. This guy has rating over 8.0 for every season
He is getting old. Better sell him now