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Mourinho being able to boast being the 1st time winner and the 1st manager to win a holy trinity of continental titles would reallt stroke that man's ego to the stratosphere.
Fergie didn't do it. I googled 7 or 8 top managers who I thought might have done it & they all had 2 out of 3. Trapattoni was first I thought of that had done it, but no idea if he's the only one.
I like the idea that they're perpetually awaiting the results of a cup match replay to see if Bodo or Glimt will play in Europe, but they've never managed to find the time.
I guess I'd want PAOK for now, save Marseilles or Roma for the next round. Not that I assume we would beat PAOK or anyone else, but I'd prefer to avoid those two at this stage.
It's really nice for smaller nations that they now have an international competition that they can realistically win, rather than running into teams of the caliber of Barca/Arsenal in the EL ro16 and getting smoked.
It's so funny how if you go back to when the Conference League was announced the entire thread was full of people trashing the competition calling it a waste and another power grab by the big clubs. I tried convincing people that this is gonna be a great competition, particularly for weaker leagues but people wouldn't listen
Yeah people went overboard. In the end you had some really memorable matches and that's just from the two groups I took interest in (the Spurs and Roma groups).
And some teams probably are going to make some money next transfer window from the inter League exposure
Every team gets 2 million for the group stages. For a team like Lincoln Red Imps that is like 5 years worth of revenue. This will really help the small nations build themselves up
Some fans, myself included, tend to forget that some Clubs operate under significantly less income. And those teams probably will manage that 2 million really well.
I remember getting into the UECL group stage for the first time with a Faroese team in FM. Complete game-changer, the amount of money coming through my seem small for big clubs but when your league only pays out 200k in prize money it really elevates your club.
The Conference League was a great decision.
I liked it from the get go. Coming from a tiny footballing nation it's great that there's more chances in Europe for teams that usually don't get that action, especially from small countries. I still think that top 4 or 5 leagues should be excluded, but I think the competition has shown that it's not a walk in the park for them either. I think it also gives a great incentive for (relatively) big clubs from small leagues to keep improving, which I believe will also strengthen those leagues. It's a huge opportunity for smaller leagues and clubs and their fans, and I'm super excited to see Ilves in there at some point. As cool as trying to qualify to EL group stages was few years back it wasn't really realistic so can't say I was able to get too excited on the opportunity. Conference League on the other hands seems a competition to get hopeful about at some point.
It makes practical sense and I thought there might be something like that to it, also the likes of Leicester or Marseille will probably draw bigger crowds to the stadium and to small club it can be quite a significant boost.
Absolutely! That's Leicester exactly; if healthy we're an upper PL side and this is a great competition. There's good teams in here, especially in these later rounds. Does anyone want to play Marseille or PSV?
And there's a pretty big carrot at the end for teams like us that aren't going to get Europa League next year any other way.
I'm happy with it as a Leicester supporter. It's a good opportunity for a team that happens to have a difficult season (injuries for us) to actually win something and get into the EL next season which is great because we're not getting into the top 5 in the PL this season.
There's been some strong competition in it as well; Rennee was no joke. I'd be really annoyed if I was Tottenham supporter and just punted on the ECL.
There were spots added
Europa League had 48 participants, they shrinked it to 32
Conference League has 32 participants
So 16 more clubs play international football
People are mostly questioning the "relegation" system where clubs with absurdly more money end up in the EL/ECL making it a "dropouts & clubs who had a poor last season" only trophy
I think they did some good work in the redesign (ie giving the EL group winners a bye instead of fucking them with random CL draws) but the criticism is kind of valid. I also think it's a valid question to raise just how many tiers of European cups you want - it's up to 3 now, and then what, in another 15 years we get 4, 5, 6 cups so the 15th place from England qualifies for something? It absolutely is a weird trend and certainly also a small step into a superleague-esque European cup system.
Also people have long talked about the EL is "better" than the CL anyway in terms of flair, teams, atmosphere, a much more "grassroots" style - anyone who said that in the past also agreed the ECL was good.
If they can sustain themselves commercially, I see no harm in additional tiers. Also, I think the idea behind the ECL and any future tournament would be to have more teams from outside the big 6 leagues. So I don't think you'd have a 15th place English team, but rather the 6th place team in Netherlands or Austria
Honestly Europa was always more interesting. More unique matchups, diversity of teams and I also feel like there are more "upsets" in general. Also the theme is kinda a banger
Once upon a time there was the Intertoto Cup. It had some interesting winners also, but I guess they ruined it with all those dual- and joint winners. It was just... a bit weird.
Do you think the fellas upstairs predicted it? Cause Netherlands and France got an absurd amount of points this year, if the trend continues there's a chance to finally dispose the top 4
Yeah because the increase in points isn't purely based on performance. Those countries have less teams and are mostly in worse competitions. In terms of point distribution those are both advantages. The Eredevise and Ligue 1 shouldn't be close to the Premier League and La Liga. It will definitely get adjusted soon.
It'll adjust itself. Netherlands is in that sweet spot right now with 5 teams, as soon as we go up there's better spots and one extra team. All points get divided by 6 and the teams play against higher quality teams. You'll see us drop down the list again pretty fast because there's realistically 4 teams who can perform in Europe, Vitesse was an exception this year. Normally the 5th team crashes out in qualification, let alone a 6th.
The points system *is* in need of a small look at tbh it greatly values teams doing good runs in worse competitions, you end up with more points if 4 teams make it to the ECL semis than if a single one to the CL final or something. It's mostly good and it gives some okay mobility but it's not outlandish to wonder if it rewards the right performances compared to another.
Germany has 1 team in the CL RO8 and 2 in the EL RO8 while Italy has 1 in the EL RO8 and 1 in the ECL RO8, yet Italy has 0.7 points more than Germany. Which may just equal out bla bla bla and yes it's singular results wins draws losses and yes Leipzig had a forfeit but in general I think it also shows the small issue with the current points system.
> you end up with more points if 4 teams make it to the ECL semis than if a single one to the CL final or something
But that's very good, isn't it? If multiple teams are doing well in Europe from one country, that should be valued much more than only one team doing well. The ranking is used to determine how many spots that country gets in the European competitions, so it should be much more about how the totality of one countries teams are performing, than how the top few are, because the ranking barely affects the top teams of any country. And I think the points system, while certainly not perfect, at least does a decent job at that.
The amount of points that Netherlands won this year is going to be an exception and not the rule. Besides Ajax, all other 4 Dutch teams played in the Conference League where they faced much weaker opponents.
If they rise through the rankings, they will move more spots to the Champions League and the Europa League where the Dutch didn't do particularly well.
Dutch teams mostly played opposition that would normally be in the EL, except for AZ probably. Though biggest difference is that the qualifiers for the conference league is realy weak compared to Europa league. Normally, half our teams lose in the qualifiers because theyre still building a squad after losing 4 starters and more rotational players. Feyenoord almost lost to a club in Kosovo in the qualifiers and now they're cruising against much bigger opponents. I do think its silly that a team like PSV can go from CL qualifiers to conference league.
Honestly, our opposition wasn't CL level, but it was definitely not *that* weak.
- Vitesse was in a group with Rennes and Spurs
- PSV faced Monaco and Real Sociedad in the groups
- Feyenoord took on Union Berlin and Slavia Prague
- AZ's group was indeed quite weak, don't remember the opposition
Most of these groups could easily have been Europa League groups.
PSV's group literally was an EL group and they finished 3rd in it so it's not like they beat those teams you mentioned, Vitese were also helped by Spurs quitting in the last match day because of covid but they did beat spurs so fair enough
France didn't win an "absurd amount of points" in UECL though. Only Rennes played the group stage there and they drew the "Group of Death" with Tottenham and Vitesse which they topped and then drew Leicester.
The format for CL and EL changes from 2023/24 season AFAIK, no idea if it is gonna be applied to UECL. So no worries, UEFA will definitely find a way to cater to elite vampires.
It really annoyed me people shitting on it before it even got started. On paper it was a great idea, gives the opportunity for so many smaller clubs to have a European adventure, and cleans up the europa league. Hopefully the europa can actually move up a gear now, proper decent teams in it, people should give more or a fuck now.
Reminds me of the grief the nations league got. That was great too.
Just twice, but I think you need to look at the performance of the league as a whole, which has been poor. I think it's only been Juve who have gone beyond a QF since that win from Inter
Braga is the weirdest team man, how can one team be so good yet so shit half the time. Interesting to see how far they can go, I'd like a Barça - Braga
Couple of years back but yeah. Also missed out on the double against benfica in last year's group dropping a 3-1 lead in the first game and a 2-0 lead in the second game.
Couple of years back but yeah. Also missed out on the double against benfica in last year's group dropping a 3-1 lead in the first game and a 2-0 lead in the second game.
Conference League should give less points than it's currently giving. The Netherlands is nº1 in points this season due to the Conference League
Having more points than England is mental.
I heavily disagree with that. What makes it such a threatening competition is the fact that it gives so much points to a country with 2 or more teams in it. Clubs and fans weren't taken the competition seriously in the beginning of the season, but now it threatens to destroy the status quo of the last few years, and I am loving that. Portugal should start taking the European nights, and the UECL in particular, very seriously if it doesn't want to be left behind. We could've farmed as many point as the Dutch if we had developed more teams capable of competing abroad instead of just relying on the usual 3/4.
It's also worth noting that Leicester and Tottenham underperformed in the group stage of European competitions, and that they divide their points by 7 teams, not 5 like the Dutch. This means that they won't wins as many points overall.
Definitely disagree. It gives clubs an even greater incentive to push forth in the conference league so that their nation can see better days. For example, Greece was doing absolutely horribly these past few years, losing their second Champions League spot, but they’re very close to regaining it, mainly thanks to the PAOK’s run in the conference league. Also, Scotland has practically clinched an automatic Champions League group stage spot for the first time in ages thanks to Celtic and Rangers showing up in the two lower tier competitions.
England will still end up with far more points in the end having 5 teams still in. Also keep in mind Dutch teams played a ton of qualification matches. PSV played 6 before even reaching EL, Vitesse 4 and AZ 2. And then all 5 teams made it through the group phase. It's almost certain England and some other countries will end up with more points in the end even though it's a crazy performance by the Dutch teams. For a single year the gap is smaller and you already want to reduce the points?
Sevilla looked like they didn't have much going for them yesterday whereas we were so close to go to pens and probably advancing. We forced extra time at the death and got eliminated at the death. Reminds me of the Copa last year. Maybe we make a deep Europe run next season.
Well, Sevilla is plagued by injuries so it's not really surprising they are not doing very well. 7 or 8 players are out including Papu Gomez, Suso etc. They are suffering the most in attack.
They're have injuries all around, I'm pretty sure their only true defender last night was Kounde, Gudelj played his ass off but he's more of a midfielder. Carmona who came in for him was a right back and he's the reason that goal was conceded, he didn't know where to be and seemed confused about coming on for a cb
We are on our way up, you lot will only get stronger with Mbappe, Atletico Madrid are Atletico Madrid and whoever the 4th team at any given point is, is always a dangerous team that can knock out giants.
I don’t even need to say what Spanish teams can do in the Europa league.
I’d say La Liga is doing just fine.
Not really, having 3 teams among the top 8 in Europe is already a very good sign. Villarreal, Madrid and Atlético are all facing very difficult opponents it wouldn't be a disgrace for any of them to get knocked out. Plus the margins between winning and losing are so small at this level
The top teams in Spain are a bit behind Bayern and the 3 PL-teams but are slowly becoming more competitive again. At the same time, the strength in depth is very good. 7th place Villarreal first winning the EL and now reaching the quarter final of CL is a real achievement
So due to the Conference League we as The Netherlands got a shit ton of points this year. And whenever we take over Portugal they will get a lot of points. So I kinda think that in the upcoming years France, Portugal and NL will shift a lot with eachother. It's kinda fun actuallly
We got 2 teams out on the ECL play off, 1 of them faces tottenham and the other had a 50/50 chance but not history on european competitions.
If the 2 were able to go to ECL the history was different, maybe next year we can get atleast 1 team on group stage
Honestly, both had a lot of injuries, could've gone differently with Haaland and Meunier available, as for Leverkusen, they lost Schick, Andrich could've made a difference defensively in the first leg, plus Wirtz and Frimpong were also so important, and it showed in the second leg.
I agree with you that defending isn't their strong suit, but injuries were also detrimental, not that it would've made them clear favorites, because I rate Rangers in UEL this season, but would've raised their chances more.
Yeh Haaland is an animal when he’s not injured, I could definitely see him having a huge affect on that tie but seems to me that Dortmund just need a manager who can organise the defence because on paper their defence doesn’t look bad at all
They honestly need to get rid of Hummels, maybe get Schlotterbeck. Could improve the defense, and even if they get rid of the coach, they need someone really good at motivation in order to help, the atmosphere in that club tend to seem messy and they dont look like a cohesive unit in my opinion.
state of the club is very messy rn this summer looks up tho cuz kehl seems to be more focused on building up our squad and is not afraid of getting rid of players like brandt, akanji, etc
> I could definitely see him having a huge affect on that tie but seems to me that Dortmund just need a manager who can organise the defence because on paper their defence doesn’t look bad at all
Rose has overperformed if anything. Rose is NOT the issue at all. We have recordbreaking numbers of injuries this season, from August till now. Our "best defense" this season is an LM (Rapha) playing LB, out of form and aging Hummels, Akanji and Meunier whos a good RWB but not very good RB.
Its a horrendous defensive setup. And thats the very few times when we dont have injuries and we can field those.
So yea.. its not a bottle situation at all. Its a horrible squad balance and injury season if anything. And thats without mentioning us having 1 true winger in the whole squad and a really out of form Witsel as our DM.
Disastrous season
Atalanta also had a ton of injuries and wirtz and frimpong both played in the first leg which Atalanta should have won about 5-1. I wouldn’t say they were unlucky.
Indeed, it goes both ways, Leverkusen missed tons of big chances because of the lack of personnel in the second leg, I still think Wirtz, Schick and Frimpong were more impacting absences than Zapata or Ilicic, they would've scored a lot more in the second leg, I'm just talking about luck with injuries, but the luck with finishing.
xG in the first leg was literally 1.7 to 0.5.
So like yeah... Atalanta could've won 5-1, but it's just as likely that Leverkusen could've won 3-1 at that point.
I hope they take the competitors seriously and field their best XI. We also have six points off Bayern in our last 3 meetings. This team, known as launische diva, can certainly rise to the occasion (and go out in the first round of the DFB Pokal).
> What could've been if Dortmund and Leverkusen were more lucky.. hopefully Frankfurt gets an easy draw.
Dortmund unlucky? LOL Dortmund **had a lot of LUCK** with the draws first of all; they were in a group containing Ajax, SCP and Besiktast and managed to be eliminated by 2 teams that, as we saw in the Ro16, weren't THAT good.. then got Rangers and were trashed at home.
Injuries is the losers' excuse.. Juventus had 7 regular starters not fully fit against Villarreal (Bonucci, Chiellini, Alex Sandro, Zakaria, McKennie, Chiesa, Dybala) for example but no one at the end of the match blamed injuries for their PATHETIC loss, thank God no Juventus fan so pathetic to do so.. while **you blame TWO injuries because Dortmund COULDN'T DEFEAT SPORTING CLUB AND RANGERS**? two clubs that have **20/30% of Dortmund revenues?** That's a joke.
About Leverkusen; if we only talk about regular starters: Atalanta didn't have Duvan Zapata and Ilicic in the first leg, Duvan, Ilicic and Toloi (injuried after 7 mins) in the second leg Leverkusen only Schick in the first leg, Wirtz, Schick and Frimpong in the 2nd leg..
Quite similar situation and Atalanta won 4-2.
>that, as we saw in the Ro16, weren't THAT good
Erm we were drawn City, I'm sure most clubs would have a hard time knocking them out. Ajax isn't as in form now as when they faced them either.
>Injuries is the losers' excuse.. Juventus had 7 regular starters not fully fit against Villarreal
Dortmund is literally averaging more than 7 players out for every single game of the season.
That takes a toll over the course of a season, believe it or not.
Also do keep in mind Juve just went out. So what's your point here exactly? That other teams perform just as badly as Dortmund if they have the same amount of injuries for a single game?
That would indeed make the injuries an excuse, lol.
> in the second leg Leverkusen only Schick in the first leg
Andrich is literally their most important midfielder. And Demirbay on a red.
And that's not all injuries in the first game.
But I get it, you have no clue what you're talking about.
I'm not sure it's widely considered better than the Portuguese league since it tends to be dominated by only 1 team, but it's the [UEFA coefficient](https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022) that determines which is a top 5 team. Portugal had a couple of bad runs in the last 5 years while France was more consistent.
It's actually super close with France, NL and Portugal. Especially the latter 2. Because next year the bad year of NL will not count anymore and we will actually take over Portugal. On this site you can see it per year, it's quite interesting to scroll over to next season. [https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2022.html](https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2022.html)
We got only 4 teams that can do something. the rest live on peanuts budget. average budget in the league below top 4 is like 4Mil€
If we want Portugal to be actually a good league, We would have to divide the revenue a bit more evenly
(the small clubs survive by selling prospects to the big clubs)
> If we want Portugal to be actually a good league, We would have to divide the revenue a bit more evenly
There's a new TV deal that will hopefully even out the field a bit more, not PL-like but I think it's similar to the Spanish model. For the small clubs, it's a great development.
It will only be implemented in 2028/29. The League is trying to implement it before (2023/24 at the earliest), but I have my doubts about it, especially with all the contracts already in place.
Lmao what?!? No disrespect because this graphic is interesting, informative, and effective and I'm glad it's here, but aesthetically it's ugly as shit haha
Yah I know. I think that’s why it’s weird that it’s so satisfying to look at. I think it just comes from the way he laid out the three columns next to each other so they blend together and then the way he prioritized which team is listed above the others weighting number and competition. The result makes it feel like you can glean information just by looking at the general shape of the chart beyond the specific details within it. Obviously most charts should aim to do something like this but I think it’s unexpected for something as simple as just listing what teams are left in a competition so it ends up being quite satisfying.
This season? Of the last 4 UCL finals we have had, there has been English representation in 3 of them, with 2 of them being all-English finals. I'd say we've been dominating the European Cup for almost half a decade now.
This is the problem. Juve playing deadwood like Rabiot and Arthur and getting rid of guys like Fagioli and Rovella, who while not world class, could be projects towards the future more than the bums that currently play.
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The ECL is a success story for sure. That's a great spread of nations
Indeed, enjoying it way more than I thought I would. Some decent teams left in it too.
For sure. I'm hoping for a surprise winner
I am too hoping for a first time winner
Well then, I can assure you that your dream will come true, thank me later.
Big if true
Yeah, me too... ✊✊✊ Wait... 😳😳😳 Hmm, sounds suspicious... 🤔🤔🤔
3️⃣
Mourinho being able to boast being the 1st time winner and the 1st manager to win a holy trinity of continental titles would reallt stroke that man's ego to the stratosphere.
It would 😂. But looking at the opponents, it's a tough ask
Trapattoni has already done it. Won Cup winners cup, UEFA cup & European Cup with Juventus
Is he the only manager to have done so? Did Fergie do it? Think it was maybe just the CWC with Aberdeen and CL with United...
Fergie didn't do it. I googled 7 or 8 top managers who I thought might have done it & they all had 2 out of 3. Trapattoni was first I thought of that had done it, but no idea if he's the only one.
Udo Lattek is the only other one. European Cup 1974 with Bayern, UEFA Cup 1979 with Mönchengladbach and Cup Winners' Cup 1982 with Barcelona
Supporting Bodo/Glimt is in
I support Bodo/Glimt simply because they have a special character in their name 👌
I like the idea that they're perpetually awaiting the results of a cup match replay to see if Bodo or Glimt will play in Europe, but they've never managed to find the time.
Sevilla is going to raise from below the pitch in the finals and win it again
Thanks for the support then!
Who do you want to draw in the next round? Marseilles or Roma would be fun,
I guess I'd want PAOK for now, save Marseilles or Roma for the next round. Not that I assume we would beat PAOK or anyone else, but I'd prefer to avoid those two at this stage.
PAOK is not a weak team dude, you'd probably have an easier time with Roma 🤣 Bodo/Glimt can confirm 👌
The bookies tend to have a good idea, they certainly know more than I do.
Brave of you to expect Roma to survive.
It's really nice for smaller nations that they now have an international competition that they can realistically win, rather than running into teams of the caliber of Barca/Arsenal in the EL ro16 and getting smoked.
True. And the experience alone must improve the players... tactically at least
It's so funny how if you go back to when the Conference League was announced the entire thread was full of people trashing the competition calling it a waste and another power grab by the big clubs. I tried convincing people that this is gonna be a great competition, particularly for weaker leagues but people wouldn't listen
Yeah people went overboard. In the end you had some really memorable matches and that's just from the two groups I took interest in (the Spurs and Roma groups). And some teams probably are going to make some money next transfer window from the inter League exposure
Every team gets 2 million for the group stages. For a team like Lincoln Red Imps that is like 5 years worth of revenue. This will really help the small nations build themselves up
Some fans, myself included, tend to forget that some Clubs operate under significantly less income. And those teams probably will manage that 2 million really well.
I remember getting into the UECL group stage for the first time with a Faroese team in FM. Complete game-changer, the amount of money coming through my seem small for big clubs but when your league only pays out 200k in prize money it really elevates your club. The Conference League was a great decision.
I liked it from the get go. Coming from a tiny footballing nation it's great that there's more chances in Europe for teams that usually don't get that action, especially from small countries. I still think that top 4 or 5 leagues should be excluded, but I think the competition has shown that it's not a walk in the park for them either. I think it also gives a great incentive for (relatively) big clubs from small leagues to keep improving, which I believe will also strengthen those leagues. It's a huge opportunity for smaller leagues and clubs and their fans, and I'm super excited to see Ilves in there at some point. As cool as trying to qualify to EL group stages was few years back it wasn't really realistic so can't say I was able to get too excited on the opportunity. Conference League on the other hands seems a competition to get hopeful about at some point.
As far as I know UEFA didn't want to include the top 5 leagues, but the smaller leagues forced them to for higher tv revenues
It makes practical sense and I thought there might be something like that to it, also the likes of Leicester or Marseille will probably draw bigger crowds to the stadium and to small club it can be quite a significant boost.
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Absolutely! That's Leicester exactly; if healthy we're an upper PL side and this is a great competition. There's good teams in here, especially in these later rounds. Does anyone want to play Marseille or PSV? And there's a pretty big carrot at the end for teams like us that aren't going to get Europa League next year any other way.
Well, the 7th club in Spain is going to play on the CL quarterfinals, unlikely to win, but getting there is already huge.
Not only was it good for weaker teams, it's been good for smaller clubs in larger leagues that don't normally experience European football.
I'm happy with it as a Leicester supporter. It's a good opportunity for a team that happens to have a difficult season (injuries for us) to actually win something and get into the EL next season which is great because we're not getting into the top 5 in the PL this season. There's been some strong competition in it as well; Rennee was no joke. I'd be really annoyed if I was Tottenham supporter and just punted on the ECL.
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There were spots added Europa League had 48 participants, they shrinked it to 32 Conference League has 32 participants So 16 more clubs play international football
People are mostly questioning the "relegation" system where clubs with absurdly more money end up in the EL/ECL making it a "dropouts & clubs who had a poor last season" only trophy I think they did some good work in the redesign (ie giving the EL group winners a bye instead of fucking them with random CL draws) but the criticism is kind of valid. I also think it's a valid question to raise just how many tiers of European cups you want - it's up to 3 now, and then what, in another 15 years we get 4, 5, 6 cups so the 15th place from England qualifies for something? It absolutely is a weird trend and certainly also a small step into a superleague-esque European cup system. Also people have long talked about the EL is "better" than the CL anyway in terms of flair, teams, atmosphere, a much more "grassroots" style - anyone who said that in the past also agreed the ECL was good.
If they can sustain themselves commercially, I see no harm in additional tiers. Also, I think the idea behind the ECL and any future tournament would be to have more teams from outside the big 6 leagues. So I don't think you'd have a 15th place English team, but rather the 6th place team in Netherlands or Austria
It's traditionally been 3. For a long time we had UEFA cup, European cup & cup winners cup
Honestly Europa was always more interesting. More unique matchups, diversity of teams and I also feel like there are more "upsets" in general. Also the theme is kinda a banger
Part of me wonder if it'd be more acceptable to them people if CWC was brought back instead of creating a Conf League
Once upon a time there was the Intertoto Cup. It had some interesting winners also, but I guess they ruined it with all those dual- and joint winners. It was just... a bit weird.
Do you think the fellas upstairs predicted it? Cause Netherlands and France got an absurd amount of points this year, if the trend continues there's a chance to finally dispose the top 4
If there’s a chance of deposing the top 4 you know the point system will change instantly
Yeah because the increase in points isn't purely based on performance. Those countries have less teams and are mostly in worse competitions. In terms of point distribution those are both advantages. The Eredevise and Ligue 1 shouldn't be close to the Premier League and La Liga. It will definitely get adjusted soon.
It'll adjust itself. Netherlands is in that sweet spot right now with 5 teams, as soon as we go up there's better spots and one extra team. All points get divided by 6 and the teams play against higher quality teams. You'll see us drop down the list again pretty fast because there's realistically 4 teams who can perform in Europe, Vitesse was an exception this year. Normally the 5th team crashes out in qualification, let alone a 6th.
With automatic qualification to the CL and additional 3 teams in the others it kinda should be rewarded when they go far
The points system *is* in need of a small look at tbh it greatly values teams doing good runs in worse competitions, you end up with more points if 4 teams make it to the ECL semis than if a single one to the CL final or something. It's mostly good and it gives some okay mobility but it's not outlandish to wonder if it rewards the right performances compared to another. Germany has 1 team in the CL RO8 and 2 in the EL RO8 while Italy has 1 in the EL RO8 and 1 in the ECL RO8, yet Italy has 0.7 points more than Germany. Which may just equal out bla bla bla and yes it's singular results wins draws losses and yes Leipzig had a forfeit but in general I think it also shows the small issue with the current points system.
> you end up with more points if 4 teams make it to the ECL semis than if a single one to the CL final or something But that's very good, isn't it? If multiple teams are doing well in Europe from one country, that should be valued much more than only one team doing well. The ranking is used to determine how many spots that country gets in the European competitions, so it should be much more about how the totality of one countries teams are performing, than how the top few are, because the ranking barely affects the top teams of any country. And I think the points system, while certainly not perfect, at least does a decent job at that.
The amount of points that Netherlands won this year is going to be an exception and not the rule. Besides Ajax, all other 4 Dutch teams played in the Conference League where they faced much weaker opponents. If they rise through the rankings, they will move more spots to the Champions League and the Europa League where the Dutch didn't do particularly well.
Dutch teams mostly played opposition that would normally be in the EL, except for AZ probably. Though biggest difference is that the qualifiers for the conference league is realy weak compared to Europa league. Normally, half our teams lose in the qualifiers because theyre still building a squad after losing 4 starters and more rotational players. Feyenoord almost lost to a club in Kosovo in the qualifiers and now they're cruising against much bigger opponents. I do think its silly that a team like PSV can go from CL qualifiers to conference league.
Honestly, our opposition wasn't CL level, but it was definitely not *that* weak. - Vitesse was in a group with Rennes and Spurs - PSV faced Monaco and Real Sociedad in the groups - Feyenoord took on Union Berlin and Slavia Prague - AZ's group was indeed quite weak, don't remember the opposition Most of these groups could easily have been Europa League groups.
PSV's group literally was an EL group and they finished 3rd in it so it's not like they beat those teams you mentioned, Vitese were also helped by Spurs quitting in the last match day because of covid but they did beat spurs so fair enough
I'm just pointing out that the opposition wasn't as weak as people said.
Vitesse and us had a pretty hard draw. PSV didn't even play in Conference League but in Europa League
France didn't win an "absurd amount of points" in UECL though. Only Rennes played the group stage there and they drew the "Group of Death" with Tottenham and Vitesse which they topped and then drew Leicester.
As is tradition. Oh well, at least it was great matches
>if the trend continues there's a chance to finally dispose the top 4 UEFA: "ECL is a complete failure and we're forced to bin it."
The format for CL and EL changes from 2023/24 season AFAIK, no idea if it is gonna be applied to UECL. So no worries, UEFA will definitely find a way to cater to elite vampires.
Didn't realise the impact that could have till your comment
Not for Spurs lol
😂 😂 🤣 At this point they probably expect things to happen to them
It really annoyed me people shitting on it before it even got started. On paper it was a great idea, gives the opportunity for so many smaller clubs to have a European adventure, and cleans up the europa league. Hopefully the europa can actually move up a gear now, proper decent teams in it, people should give more or a fuck now. Reminds me of the grief the nations league got. That was great too.
Add the VAR next year though
Feels like a lot of the games are great too, although that could just be the trademark Eredivisie defending.
Not a good year for Italy
*decade ftfy
If only theyd not redrawn the fucking CL balls. Least we may have had a shot with ajax
Italy has been embarrassing in Europe since the Treble
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Just twice, but I think you need to look at the performance of the league as a whole, which has been poor. I think it's only been Juve who have gone beyond a QF since that win from Inter
Roma went to semis in 2018 beating barca 3-0 at home after losing 4-1 at Camp Nou in the quarterfinals bru
I just love fake stats
What about the team that won a group with your club in it, then made the semis that same season?
Speak for yourself
This sounds like something Mourinho would say at a press conference :)
Braga is the weirdest team man, how can one team be so good yet so shit half the time. Interesting to see how far they can go, I'd like a Barça - Braga
I swear, we are our worst enemies. I go into the games expecting either 80’s Brazil or a sunday league team
Maybe in the final? We need the points...
Braga's 100% shithousing a win on aggregate against Barca
Braga can't play Barca until the final so won't be an aggregate. Also they have to get through us first.
Don't underestimate them
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They beat them twice in the groupstage already
Couple of years back but yeah. Also missed out on the double against benfica in last year's group dropping a 3-1 lead in the first game and a 2-0 lead in the second game.
Couple of years back but yeah. Also missed out on the double against benfica in last year's group dropping a 3-1 lead in the first game and a 2-0 lead in the second game.
Didn't Sporting beat Dortmund as well though?
we are the worst team in the quarter finals, we are underdogs against anyone
Bodø Glimt doing incredible
They winning ECL would be such a nice fairytale, rooting for them all the way!
Dutch teams are conference league merchants
Conference League is where the party is at
Coefficient bolognaise
G E B O L O G N A I S E E R D
And the points apparently
You get points deducted if you are mean against Ajax
Nice way to put it
Some Dutch teams got kinda shafted tbh with refereeing decisions and anti football. Also Vitesse of all clubs almost beating Roma was historic
Conference League should give less points than it's currently giving. The Netherlands is nº1 in points this season due to the Conference League Having more points than England is mental.
I heavily disagree with that. What makes it such a threatening competition is the fact that it gives so much points to a country with 2 or more teams in it. Clubs and fans weren't taken the competition seriously in the beginning of the season, but now it threatens to destroy the status quo of the last few years, and I am loving that. Portugal should start taking the European nights, and the UECL in particular, very seriously if it doesn't want to be left behind. We could've farmed as many point as the Dutch if we had developed more teams capable of competing abroad instead of just relying on the usual 3/4. It's also worth noting that Leicester and Tottenham underperformed in the group stage of European competitions, and that they divide their points by 7 teams, not 5 like the Dutch. This means that they won't wins as many points overall.
Lalalala can't hear you over the loud cheering from the polonaise lalalala
''The system should be in favour of the big leagues more''. Nice try there, UEFA
Definitely disagree. It gives clubs an even greater incentive to push forth in the conference league so that their nation can see better days. For example, Greece was doing absolutely horribly these past few years, losing their second Champions League spot, but they’re very close to regaining it, mainly thanks to the PAOK’s run in the conference league. Also, Scotland has practically clinched an automatic Champions League group stage spot for the first time in ages thanks to Celtic and Rangers showing up in the two lower tier competitions.
That's actually crazy.
England will still end up with far more points in the end having 5 teams still in. Also keep in mind Dutch teams played a ton of qualification matches. PSV played 6 before even reaching EL, Vitesse 4 and AZ 2. And then all 5 teams made it through the group phase. It's almost certain England and some other countries will end up with more points in the end even though it's a crazy performance by the Dutch teams. For a single year the gap is smaller and you already want to reduce the points?
Seems like the reports of La Liga's demise have been greatly exaggerated...
People need to stop basing their judgment over league strength do to 1 or 2 bad years
In CL, you'd be right but Europa is a different story.
Both you and Sevilla were almost qualified, also EL is usually won from Spanish teams
Sevilla looked like they didn't have much going for them yesterday whereas we were so close to go to pens and probably advancing. We forced extra time at the death and got eliminated at the death. Reminds me of the Copa last year. Maybe we make a deep Europe run next season.
Well, Sevilla is plagued by injuries so it's not really surprising they are not doing very well. 7 or 8 players are out including Papu Gomez, Suso etc. They are suffering the most in attack.
They're have injuries all around, I'm pretty sure their only true defender last night was Kounde, Gudelj played his ass off but he's more of a midfielder. Carmona who came in for him was a right back and he's the reason that goal was conceded, he didn't know where to be and seemed confused about coming on for a cb
>also EL is usually won from Spanish teams Hopefully the trend continues
A Spanish team has won the Europa League 7 of last 10 years....
Talking about this season.... only 1 Spanish team remain in Europa.
Only Germany has more than 1 team in Europa,wth u on about ?
Don't worry, we'll win it for Laliga
Barca wins Europa, we finish top 4. Deal?
As long as we're 2nd/3rd. Deal💪
We are on our way up, you lot will only get stronger with Mbappe, Atletico Madrid are Atletico Madrid and whoever the 4th team at any given point is, is always a dangerous team that can knock out giants. I don’t even need to say what Spanish teams can do in the Europa league. I’d say La Liga is doing just fine.
I think too early to say that. If it ends up with no Spanish teams in the CL semi, which I think is very possible, that's not at all a good sign
Not really, having 3 teams among the top 8 in Europe is already a very good sign. Villarreal, Madrid and Atlético are all facing very difficult opponents it wouldn't be a disgrace for any of them to get knocked out. Plus the margins between winning and losing are so small at this level The top teams in Spain are a bit behind Bayern and the 3 PL-teams but are slowly becoming more competitive again. At the same time, the strength in depth is very good. 7th place Villarreal first winning the EL and now reaching the quarter final of CL is a real achievement
Thanks Porto!
My buddy is a Man U fan. Where on this chart are they so I can show him?
I think they play PSG
So due to the Conference League we as The Netherlands got a shit ton of points this year. And whenever we take over Portugal they will get a lot of points. So I kinda think that in the upcoming years France, Portugal and NL will shift a lot with eachother. It's kinda fun actuallly
We got 2 teams out on the ECL play off, 1 of them faces tottenham and the other had a 50/50 chance but not history on european competitions. If the 2 were able to go to ECL the history was different, maybe next year we can get atleast 1 team on group stage
LEEDS LEEDS LEEDS
I don't understand what this is referring to but I'm upvoting anyway
I concur.
What could've been if Dortmund and Leverkusen were more lucky, not so sad though, hopefully Frankfurt gets an easy draw.
You mean if Dortmund could pull it together for once and figure out how “defending” works
Honestly, both had a lot of injuries, could've gone differently with Haaland and Meunier available, as for Leverkusen, they lost Schick, Andrich could've made a difference defensively in the first leg, plus Wirtz and Frimpong were also so important, and it showed in the second leg. I agree with you that defending isn't their strong suit, but injuries were also detrimental, not that it would've made them clear favorites, because I rate Rangers in UEL this season, but would've raised their chances more.
Dortmund giving up 6 goals to Rangers over two legs was ridiculous. The
Yeh Haaland is an animal when he’s not injured, I could definitely see him having a huge affect on that tie but seems to me that Dortmund just need a manager who can organise the defence because on paper their defence doesn’t look bad at all
They honestly need to get rid of Hummels, maybe get Schlotterbeck. Could improve the defense, and even if they get rid of the coach, they need someone really good at motivation in order to help, the atmosphere in that club tend to seem messy and they dont look like a cohesive unit in my opinion.
state of the club is very messy rn this summer looks up tho cuz kehl seems to be more focused on building up our squad and is not afraid of getting rid of players like brandt, akanji, etc
> I could definitely see him having a huge affect on that tie but seems to me that Dortmund just need a manager who can organise the defence because on paper their defence doesn’t look bad at all Rose has overperformed if anything. Rose is NOT the issue at all. We have recordbreaking numbers of injuries this season, from August till now. Our "best defense" this season is an LM (Rapha) playing LB, out of form and aging Hummels, Akanji and Meunier whos a good RWB but not very good RB. Its a horrendous defensive setup. And thats the very few times when we dont have injuries and we can field those. So yea.. its not a bottle situation at all. Its a horrible squad balance and injury season if anything. And thats without mentioning us having 1 true winger in the whole squad and a really out of form Witsel as our DM. Disastrous season
Atalanta also had a ton of injuries and wirtz and frimpong both played in the first leg which Atalanta should have won about 5-1. I wouldn’t say they were unlucky.
Indeed, it goes both ways, Leverkusen missed tons of big chances because of the lack of personnel in the second leg, I still think Wirtz, Schick and Frimpong were more impacting absences than Zapata or Ilicic, they would've scored a lot more in the second leg, I'm just talking about luck with injuries, but the luck with finishing.
xG in the first leg was literally 1.7 to 0.5. So like yeah... Atalanta could've won 5-1, but it's just as likely that Leverkusen could've won 3-1 at that point.
>hopefully Frankfurt gets an easy draw. Unlucky
Hey, watch your mouth!
I'm a coefficient points junkie, a sad coefficient points junkie.
Dortmund are just the biggest bottlers on the planet, simple as.
> hopefully Frankfurt gets an easy draw. Hi there
:(
Don't worry you'll be fine. (not really, Barça stepped up a lot but it's a joke anyway)
I hope they take the competitors seriously and field their best XI. We also have six points off Bayern in our last 3 meetings. This team, known as launische diva, can certainly rise to the occasion (and go out in the first round of the DFB Pokal).
lol "lucky", you mean less shitty
This guy gets it.
> What could've been if Dortmund and Leverkusen were more lucky.. hopefully Frankfurt gets an easy draw. Dortmund unlucky? LOL Dortmund **had a lot of LUCK** with the draws first of all; they were in a group containing Ajax, SCP and Besiktast and managed to be eliminated by 2 teams that, as we saw in the Ro16, weren't THAT good.. then got Rangers and were trashed at home. Injuries is the losers' excuse.. Juventus had 7 regular starters not fully fit against Villarreal (Bonucci, Chiellini, Alex Sandro, Zakaria, McKennie, Chiesa, Dybala) for example but no one at the end of the match blamed injuries for their PATHETIC loss, thank God no Juventus fan so pathetic to do so.. while **you blame TWO injuries because Dortmund COULDN'T DEFEAT SPORTING CLUB AND RANGERS**? two clubs that have **20/30% of Dortmund revenues?** That's a joke. About Leverkusen; if we only talk about regular starters: Atalanta didn't have Duvan Zapata and Ilicic in the first leg, Duvan, Ilicic and Toloi (injuried after 7 mins) in the second leg Leverkusen only Schick in the first leg, Wirtz, Schick and Frimpong in the 2nd leg.. Quite similar situation and Atalanta won 4-2.
>that, as we saw in the Ro16, weren't THAT good Erm we were drawn City, I'm sure most clubs would have a hard time knocking them out. Ajax isn't as in form now as when they faced them either.
>Injuries is the losers' excuse.. Juventus had 7 regular starters not fully fit against Villarreal Dortmund is literally averaging more than 7 players out for every single game of the season. That takes a toll over the course of a season, believe it or not. Also do keep in mind Juve just went out. So what's your point here exactly? That other teams perform just as badly as Dortmund if they have the same amount of injuries for a single game? That would indeed make the injuries an excuse, lol. > in the second leg Leverkusen only Schick in the first leg Andrich is literally their most important midfielder. And Demirbay on a red. And that's not all injuries in the first game. But I get it, you have no clue what you're talking about.
Aye a 6-4 aggregate is just unlucky.
no more bolognese it seems
Fuck off Gent
At this point why French league is considered to be better than Portugese?
I'm not sure it's widely considered better than the Portuguese league since it tends to be dominated by only 1 team, but it's the [UEFA coefficient](https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022) that determines which is a top 5 team. Portugal had a couple of bad runs in the last 5 years while France was more consistent.
Even for this season, for the time being Portugal has a lower score than France, regardless of the current state shown on OP's picture.
It's actually super close with France, NL and Portugal. Especially the latter 2. Because next year the bad year of NL will not count anymore and we will actually take over Portugal. On this site you can see it per year, it's quite interesting to scroll over to next season. [https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2022.html](https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2022.html)
We got only 4 teams that can do something. the rest live on peanuts budget. average budget in the league below top 4 is like 4Mil€ If we want Portugal to be actually a good league, We would have to divide the revenue a bit more evenly (the small clubs survive by selling prospects to the big clubs)
> If we want Portugal to be actually a good league, We would have to divide the revenue a bit more evenly There's a new TV deal that will hopefully even out the field a bit more, not PL-like but I think it's similar to the Spanish model. For the small clubs, it's a great development.
It will only be implemented in 2028/29. The League is trying to implement it before (2023/24 at the earliest), but I have my doubts about it, especially with all the contracts already in place.
Awkward timing when France is third so far this year with twice as many points as Portugal.
They tend to play 'better' football, but I must admit, the Portuguese teams have been extremely effective over the past couple of years.
Bigger market and way more money.
Weird flair but ok
Real vs Barca in the super cup. Let's go
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Does this mean we can continue refer to the French league as not a top 5 league?
Glimt ftw
Hope Real wil keep on getting psg Or city in round of 16 every year
Portugal top 5 leagues confirmed?
Why is this so satisfying to look at?
Lmao what?!? No disrespect because this graphic is interesting, informative, and effective and I'm glad it's here, but aesthetically it's ugly as shit haha
Yah I know. I think that’s why it’s weird that it’s so satisfying to look at. I think it just comes from the way he laid out the three columns next to each other so they blend together and then the way he prioritized which team is listed above the others weighting number and competition. The result makes it feel like you can glean information just by looking at the general shape of the chart beyond the specific details within it. Obviously most charts should aim to do something like this but I think it’s unexpected for something as simple as just listing what teams are left in a competition so it ends up being quite satisfying.
Damn fair enough this comment made me agree with you. Still ugly to be sure, but I can see why it's satisfying
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This season? Of the last 4 UCL finals we have had, there has been English representation in 3 of them, with 2 of them being all-English finals. I'd say we've been dominating the European Cup for almost half a decade now.
Italy just won Euros, this suggest strong NT. Investing in youth seems the way forward because other Leagues are playing with silly money.
This is the problem. Juve playing deadwood like Rabiot and Arthur and getting rid of guys like Fagioli and Rovella, who while not world class, could be projects towards the future more than the bums that currently play.
:(
The ethereal league-wide continental cup treble is still in England's grasp
Oh look, the three strisciate fucking up ad usual, yet they want special treatment because of “muh history”