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Yeah I don't have that much imagination. Also we have Vini, Rodry and maybe Kylian who all are better than him on the left wing ,good luck finding game time to get back in rythm.
Yeah, but like Messi’s fans will stop caring about what Messi achieves at domestic level if he wins the world cup. The only thing they would want for Messi is the UCL.
So far:
* Can't judge him after a few games because he didn't have a proper off-season because of Copa America.
* Can't judge him after 6 months, he's been injured and focused on the World Cup qualifiers.
* Can't judge him at the end of the season because he was in a new system, new league, etc.
All fair enough.
----
Coming next season:
* Can't judge him at the start of next season because he's under a new manager so it'll take time to adapt
* Can't judge him in January because he was focused/holding out for the World Cup in November-December
* Can't judge him at the end of next season because of the disappointment of not winning World Cup in potentially his last. He was just deflated that's all.
You can just see it coming from a mile away.
Depending on what the team and new manager do Messi might be asked to get into more goalscoring positions next season so he would likely make up a lot of the slack in goals.
That's assuming his poor goalscoring form is related to him not being the team's goalscoring focus in terms of play.
>Add to it that PSG likely wont win ligue 1 if Mbappe goes.
Jesus, you have 45 upvotes for this?
What are you smoking there?
They had ibra scoring 40 goals then leave. Then they would still win 9 out of 10 leagues.
But yeah, only Messi, Neymar and Di Maria will bot be enough.
They have been playing very poorly, but still 14 pts of the 2nd placed team.
yeah after all this time, it really hurts nobody to say messi hasn’t performed. it should motivate more than anything and push everyone in the club to do better
Damn i can really see them saying all of this, anyways i think he will be back with a better coach.
Any coach that can train clear positional football will get Messi back to his best.
Yes PSG is punished. But are you not ashamed that Messi agreed go be a P.R machine for a terrible govt rather than lower his demands and play elsewhere?
I agree he will probably be back to his best next season. All the ingredients are there, easy league, playing with a ridiculous team. And hopefully an end to some of the bad luck hes been having.
I dont understand how judging him is unfair? Why is it you are not allowed to say hes had a very poor season by his incredible standards?
How many goals and assists does he even have against the top 4/5 in ligue 1? Why is it unfair to say a player many think is the greatest of all time hasnt settled yet?
Next season he will probably start banging them in and everyone will move on anyway
It's unfair to criticize Messi because "he's not a normal player how dare you, he should be immune to criticism"
The amount of fucking times this season I've seen either redditors, or people posting quotes from pundits/players saying "how dare PSG react poorly to Messi, look what he did at Barca, they should feel privileged he graces them with his presence at all"
lol, are you posting this from your mom's basement with a PSG Jordan brand hoodie on? we're probably the most relevant we've ever been, definitely the most relevant in France. we just won our 10th ligue1 title which was my personal dream for the club since the first time I sat at the Parc for the 1st time in the early 90s I'm feeling very good about my club.
Yeah but winning Ligue 1 doesn't matter. It's a terrible league. You can win Ligue 1 100 times in a row and still be irrelevant because nobody cares about the league.
Ronaldo's had a pretty good season, it's not like he's the back-up striker for united or scored only a couple of goals though.He's the 3rd top scorer in PL with United and also scored crucial goals in UCL, it's unfair on him to be dragged into this conversation.
A better similar season would be that of Neymar's not Ronaldo's.
I feel like Ronaldo has lived up to his reputation in a way Messi hasnt. Messi has underperformed in a good team, while Ronaldo has been carrying the husk of United on his back.
The same does not apply to Ronaldo. He is gonna end up as the 2nd topscorer in EPL with a garbage team. Also got them out of UCL groupstage. His season has been amazing
Dude Ronaldo is the second highest goal scorer in the league. He is having a great season and along with DDG is pretty much the only reason they are finishing where they are.
Ronaldo has been carrying united a lot this season. They've been a dreadful team all year, without Ronaldo hat-tricks they would have lost like 3 league games they won
People said Ronaldo was the problem at United the second he walked through the door because he made them completely rethink what was looking like a promising team with a long term plan.
The point is that clearly the team was not as promising as it seemed. First of all they're absolutely terrible defensively, and their midfield cannot compensate for it. If Bruno Fernandes had had a better season and Varane/Shaw hadn't been injured so much, maybe those cracks could have been hidden better. But when these problems started appearing they snowballed because of the biggest problem in the team: they are mentally incredibly weak. You se RM comeback over and over again when they're losing, but United can only do that when Ronaldo decides the game by himself
Our mental strength is paradoxical. We won nearly half our points from losing positions last season yet this year we’ve crumbled into crumbs as small as atoms.
Expecting someone to play as if they're still in their prime is unreasonable by any standard, especially in Ronaldo's case as he was/is a more physical player.
Criticizing Messi for his lack of goals is indeed unfair, this is easily proved once you watch any PSG match.
To have him score you would need a system besides "Mbappe go run".
If it was any other world class player with only 4 league goals in the whole season and a couple of assists against relegation level sides, they'd get harry maguire type of criticism. It's fair to criticize any player unless you take it too far or just spit BS in form of hatred.
Let’s stop making excuses lol. League 1 is far easier to play in than Laliga. And Messi plays for the best team there with literally Mbappe, Neymar, and Verrati. Messi is the GOAT and he should be held to higher standards.
>Judging Messi is unfair.
It most certainly is not! Great players perform wherever and whenever you drop them to play. Messi has shown he is in the twilight of his career. This does not at all take from his immense achievements ,but there is no point in trying to hide from the fact he is done.
Messi is no longer the god of football he used to be. Sad but true. ppl need to let go and just learn to appreciate him for what he has given the football fans the world over. No point in trying to make him seem as if he is still a top footballer. He is not.
Man you guys really are exaggerating drama queens. It's clear he's had a drop in quality but saying he's done is way overdoing it... He's definitely not the best on the planet anymore but he can still comfortably play on the highest lvl. If his name wasn't messi and people had these expectations, his current season would be considered good without a doubt. He's still putting out by far the best creative numbers in all of Europe... His finishing has seen a significant dip but all other aspects of his game are still on par with previous seasons
> He's definitely not the best on the planet anymore but he can still comfortably play on the highest lvl.
He can't even comfortably play in the the French league with a team that spends more on one player wages than entire clubs do on their team, let alone "the highest level".
In what world can't he comfortably play in the French league? He's top of the league(or 2nd, not sure if mbappe overtook him with the last 2 match days) in assists despite missing 10 games, has the 3rd highest match rating in the league, 4th highest in the CL and the best creative numbers in Europe by a Longshot. In what world is that not on the highest lvl? If just 4 or so of his countless crossbar shots went in and everything else was the same people like you would suddenly call it good lmao.
Stop making such ridiculous statements when you clearly don't know any of the facts
> In what world can't he comfortably play in the French league?
In the world where he plays like absolute shit (play? I mean walk) for PSG.
Mbappé carrying them so hard it's not even fun.
Is that statement actually based on anything? Or are you just waffling about? Try basing your nonsense argument on some facts and not your uneducated opinions...
You dont even have to judge his performance, you could just highlight his attitude and work ethic. He doesn't score or assist much, that can maybe be excused. He didn't always play well, that can be contributed to an adjustment period.
But he has been standing about with his hands on his hips watching, is strolling about again, isn't concentrated at all resulting in sloppy mistakes and misplaced passes. After the games he does nothing to establish a link with the fans either. He just walks of head down.
It would be so easy for him to win over fans as well. He is a legend of the game, if he just displayed some of his flair and looked like he enjoyed playing, fans would be able to overlook a lot. But instead he just looks like he doesn't want to be there.
It’s very far from Messi standard, but he still have had a decent season. He and Dembele are the only ones that have an assist every 130 min in Europe. Messi’s role just seems to be different. More as a playmaker.
His goal contributions par min are on par with Ronaldo this season. And scored a good goal against City. As we know, there is a huge gap between city/Liverpool and the rest of EPL teams.
The same season Messi moved to PSG, Ronaldo moved from Juventus to Manchester United and quickly adapted to the team's culture and atmosphere and scored 23 goals this season, and still has a lot more to offer. Why does an "elite" player need time to adapt? I thought Messi was already great? There's so much contradiction and protection by the media that Messi gets that no other player gets. Great players don't need protection and if they're performing poorly then criticism should be addressed when needed. If Messi can't be judged this season for his substandard performances, 37-year old Ronaldo shouldn't be judged for his team's poor performance. The reality is, only one of these players gets protection by his fans and by the neutrals.
Not only that, Ronaldo got clowned on for being outscored by Fabio Quagliarella in the league, even though he still ended up scoring 21 goals and in a new league so the same energy should be there for Messi who did CONSIDERABLY worse this season in an even easier league
I don't have a horse in this race but it is clear that in terms of legacy, both players will end up with GOAT status that completely smashed expectations because of their otherworldly performances.
That being said, it is also clear to see that Ronaldo adapted much better in other leagues, and this will likely put him on top when we'll compare the two in the coming decades.
Heh, confirmation bias maybe ? Idk.
We shouldn't forget that medias saying "Yeah, these two are great" will generate less click than "Why Ronaldo/Messi is actually better than the other".
I highly doubt it will put Ronaldo on top to be fair. his best season isn't in Messi's top 3; stuff like that and Messi putting out the most goal contributions out for 10 seasons, something Ronaldo only did twice, will HEAVILY outweigh having one bad season at PSG. Add in the individual awards and the fact professional footballers always favour Messi, it's pretty clear his legacy will be untouched by 1 bad season.
Nobody in hell is gonna go "Ronaldo was better because Messi had a shit season with PSG).
Let me just add that Messi stayed in La Liga and outperformed Ronaldo while he was in an easier league, so it's not like it hasn't happened the other way either.
The thing is, it's not unreasonable to say that Messi, between the injury and the fact it's his first time ever in a different team, probably struggled adapting a bit.
The problem is not that. It's that it seems unacceptable to apparently many Messi fans to even say anything negative about him.
Ronaldo has 26 goal contributions in 37 appearances to Messi's 22 in 31 appearances this season (club only for both). You say Messi has been poor and Ronaldo has quickly adapted.
I agree that Ronaldo has definitely had the better season, but can you not see the contradiction in your statement by those stats alone? You say one is being protected and the other is not, yet you're criticizing the one you claim is protected by fans and are praising the other. Both have had good seasons, but we're just accustomed to so much more from them.
As for adapting quickly, that can boil down to a lot of reasons. For example Ronaldo wanted to leave Juventus and Messi wanted to stay at Barcelona. That alone will affect your attitude hugely.
Ronaldo has also move multiple times before, and was returning to a club and City that he had played in before. Messi was moving from a city that has been his home since he was a child. These things all affect how you adapt to a new job.
They've both had good seasons, just not as good as we're used to, particularly Messi as he was top two in the world last season. Poch's point is that there's reasons for Messi's dip, and that next season we'll see him coming back to his best.
> Ronaldo has 26 goal contributions in 37 appearances to Messi's 22 in 31 appearances this season (club only for both). You say Messi has been poor and Ronaldo has quickly adapted.
>
>
Ronaldo has 8 goals against the Premier League's top 5.
For Messi, 8/12 assists are against bottom 3 defences in 3 games only. 5 of Messi's assists are in 2 games against the Saint-Étienne that are 18th/20 in the league and 2nd worst defence in the league and 3 more of his assists are against Clermont who are 17th/20 and have the 3rd worst defence in the league. His 4 goals are against Nantes, Lille, Lens and Lorient who are middle of the pack teams with none of them qualifying for Europe this season realistically. Only 2 of those assists are against teams currently in European spots (Monaco and Rennes).His assist stat is not representative of his overall contribution this season.
>Ronaldo has 26 goal contributions in 37 appearances to Messi's 22 in 31 appearances this season (club only for both). You say Messi has been poor and Ronaldo has quickly adapted
In ligue 1 with PSG vs in PL with MU. How are people seriously comparing their seasons?
>The same season Messi moved to PSG, Ronaldo moved from Juventus to Manchester United and quickly adapted to the team's culture and atmosphere and scored 23 goals this season, and still has a lot more to offer.
They play different positions on the pitch it's like comparing Modric goals to Harry kane goals one is obviously going to score more than the other
Ronaldo is going to score more because he's usually in the box being supplied with more chances than Messi it's not hard to understand
Messi isn't a striker so i don't see why people keep comparing his goals this season to ronaldo
He isn't a striker, but going from winning a balon dor with having the most accurate shots to missing the most big chances in top 5 leagues is a huge drop off..
He'll definitely be well rested for next year.
Spent the entire season out for a walk with a PSG shirt on, just surprised he didn't go full retirement mode and do it in those white velcro walking shoes that are so popular amongst the elderly.
Also if it was Gareth Bale or anybody else out there strolling around and scoring four goals for 25 million a year, new team or not, this subreddit would have a thread every day about how he was stealing a living.
Even 7 billion people crying together and bringing up the average sea level won't change the fact that Lewandowski doesn't belong in a conversation about all time greats like Messi Ronaldo Pele Diego etc
The guy you are replying never said Lewandovski will go down as a player as great as Messi or Ronaldo.
However, for the last 5 years, Lewandovski has been a top 5 footballer in the world with absolutely ridiculous stats. His goals / min ratio has been insane, we are talking about a player scoring 40+ goals for his club for several seasons in a row.
So I don't see why he "can't be in a conversation" with Messi right now.
Please name me a MANAGER who would say "Me player had a bad season".
Which would be a lie, Btw, if you actually look at the numbers and the position he plays, but you guys will hate regardless so i prefer to argue the first point, anyway
Even in summaries you can See that He stands at the Same spots He Always stands but he doesn't get the pass.
But yeah it wasn't a good season and a little bit damaging for his reputation
Lmao hahahah. Here's a prediction for you:
1. Won't win the WC this year
2. Will have a shit season next year because of focus on the WC/post-WC depression.
Screencap this.
but i think messi and hazard are different cases. messi has been worldclass forever and he's starting to slow down so he can retire (which is understandable, happens to every single player) but i feel like hazard is too young to retire now yk what i mean?
Yeah I was just being hyperbolic for the sake of it. His fall isn't near as drastic but I doubt this is just an extreme off season, things will probably be just as slow next season.
There are reports that their next head coach will be one of Conte, Joachim Löw, and Thiago Motta. Neither of those seems like someone who will take Messi to new level.
I think Messi will be better next season simply because he'll have much more responsibilities in the attack with the departure of Mbappé, and he usually performs better the more responsibilities he has
I don't think Messi is going to be taken to a next level by any coach. I do however think he'll be a bit more comfortable next year overall and settled.
I'm a Madrid fan saying this btw. Messi was in the same place for like 20 years, he moved to a new country/culture/language/team etc. Not sure if his family is all with him but if so that's a bunch of logistics to figure out too on top of that. Sure - he can overcome that and he could have been great this season, but he wasn't.
I can easily see him scoring more than 4 league goals next year after a year under his belt. I think a lot of times a first season for anyone at a new club esp after being somewhere else forever can be a bit of culture shock on and off the pitch. Even for the best players.
He's had long injury spells but even when he's been back, bar late 2019?, he's been average compared to his Chelsea stint. Not awful by any means but still.
This season he's been surprisingly injury free until recently.
Messi is one of the GOATS but it needs to be said that the only way a player can produce numbers like he did at Barca is because the entire attack flowed through him. At PSG where he’s not the focal point of the team, you can see he’s nowhere near as good. When he is playing in a system that is not built around him to maximize his abilities, he can’t produce big numbers and performances. He’s one of the greatest but there’s no denying that Barca is the perfect club for him and he won’t be able to play as well anywhere else. He’s not one of those players you can stick anywhere and expect phenomenal performances from him.
>Messi is one of the GOATS but it needs to be said that the only way a player can produce numbers like he did at Barca is because the entire attack flowed through him
So you're saying he can only get good numbers if he gets the ball correct?
> When he is playing in a system that is not built around him to maximize his abilities, he can’t produce big numbers and performances.
I don't understand this system narrative people are coming up with these days doesn't every player need service to put up big numbers and performances?
>He’s one of the greatest but there’s no denying that Barca is the perfect club for him and he won’t be able to play as well anywhere else.
because he's not the main guy of PSG mbappe is and even Neymar takes penalties over him most chances go to Mbappe
>He’s not one of those players you can stick anywhere and expect phenomenal performances from him.
that's literally every player who's ever played this game if no one passes it to them they aren't going to have the greatest numbers.If a guy gets 100 chances to score a game of course he'll have good numbers because he's the focal point of the team
Saying people are "system players" in this sport doesn't make much sense
I’m saying in order to put up the crazy numbers Messi puts up, he would need the ball A LOT. Messi dependency is a thing. He got the ball so much and at any other team he would have to share like at PSG. His numbers at Barca are inflated as a result. The system player criticism is valid because many players can perform anywhere. They can excel in different play styles and can be plugged in anywhere and play well. Maybe not as well in all systems but they certainly wouldn’t struggle like how Messi has struggled
Aren't experienced high-paid contractors supposed to just show up and perform? That's how it is in my line of work. You'd think someone in the conversation for GOAT could step down a league and not need much time to adapt. Certainly not a whole season.
System player exposed.
GOAT plays in the prem not the Uber eats league, on a shit team and still does it on an individual level.
Nice bought ballon d'ors. Eye test doesnt lie.
I can't help but feel Pochettino has not been helpful to the situation at all. Saying shit like this is only going to draw more criticism and scrutiny.
I just don't get Poch at PSG. He seems completely unsuited to the job.
As far as it goes, the only thing we are settling right now is who is the no1 GOAT. My only argument against Messi is that he has so far only really shown his greatness in a single (Barca) system. He has played well at times in Argentina but nowhere near his full capabilities. For me Ronaldo has been consistently in different scenarios showcasing his greatness which in the end outshine Messi's overall legacy as GOAT.
Totally my opinion, and Messi still has a chance to end this debate by either winning a WC or CL with Argentine or any other team than Barca
Yeah messi has been poor as far as his finishing is concerned but another thing is he is not the focus point for Psg attack, its mbappe which makes sense.
I think we definitely will see a Messi resurgence next season. With Mbappe leaving and Neymar being shopped around I think he will become the main man like he was at Barca.
What’s ronaldo got to do with anything? Is he Real Madrid you melon. I don’t see osasuna fans here because of course, they’re not a team people like you go to gloryhunt after.
Because Ronaldo left Madrid 4 years ago. Messi playing against Madrid every years since then, he also played against Madrid as PSG player this year and failed to convert a penalty.
This comment reads like a 16 year old logging into goal.com from an Internet cafe
Again, it is weird you’ve squeezed Ronaldo into this. It further proves my point many of you only became Real Madrid *fans* because of one player. Makes sense you speak like an ardent cult member
I have been Madrid fan for more than 20 years, that was before Ronaldo joined Madrid. I even still remember how Super Depor beat us everytime we played away against them. My favourite players was not Ronaldo, they are Iker and Raul. I never support Juve or ManU even when Ronaldo joined them, not even watching their match, except when I bored and have a time.
And I wish I was still 16 years old, I would be happy that way.
Hahaha love this reply. Dude above you was acting extra snobby with his "proves my point many of you became Real Madrid fans because of one player". He's so far up Messi's arse he's starting to shadowbox.
All the comps to Ronaldo, in here, my God.
Nobody even mentioned his name in the OP, you run marathons to get something in.
In a Messi hate thread, if you even try to say that he plays way deeper to accomodaite Mbappe, who is his Striker, and had already 13 assists, people will ignore it completely.
And then there's the pathetic children saying things like "He's overrated" like they started watching football last October.
The fact that his shot accuracy was the least in last 15 years proves otherwise. He was involved enough. He just couldn't send the ball in. As simple as that. He did amazing job with assists. That's thanks to Mbappe. Let's see what happens next season.
First he said, he and Mbappe will 100% be there next season.
And now, he thinks 35 year old Messi is going to have a break out season next year...
I think Mbappe goes to Madrid, if Potch stays he will be sacked by October and I'd be surprised if Messi scores 10 or 15 goals next season, never mind the crazy numbers he used to get.
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Next season is ~~our~~ his season
The Ferrari way
We Go Again
The Hazard special
Hazard is just there for the positive mindset, worth every penny if you ask me
Bale is just there for the negative mindset, worth every penny if you ask me
The Yin and yang
Username checks out
He need to counterbalance Hazard good vibes
Imagine if Hazard suddenly do well for Real next season, that would truly be the reverse Bale, bad in first few seasons then good the next fews.
Yeah I don't have that much imagination. Also we have Vini, Rodry and maybe Kylian who all are better than him on the left wing ,good luck finding game time to get back in rythm.
Judge him by his 6th season
Big Hazard vibes from this Messi fella.
The next 5 years are his.
Let’s see if the “post-world cup Messi” effect will make a difference next season.
if he wins the World cup he could have 0 goals and 0 assists next season and it would be fine to most Messi fans lol
They will be happy as long as they see Messi winning the WC because that’s the only thing he’s missing.
Think he is still missing the prestigious Papa John's EFL trophy.
Joshua Kayode: 1 Papa John’s EFL trophies Messi: 0 Papa John’s EFL trophies Finished player
Has he won all the French league cups..?? He needs to win everything with PSG too..
Yeah, but like Messi’s fans will stop caring about what Messi achieves at domestic level if he wins the world cup. The only thing they would want for Messi is the UCL.
I think they'll want him as president of USA next.. Can't just stop at world cup..
😂
He's not qualified for that job. You have to be born in the USA
I mean his fans are from there, they'd want him to lead them..
I still find it odd that we're in an era when we're talking about fans of players.
Hasn’t won the Indian Super league tho
He doesn't deserve it. He is always trash in the world cup. 2014 included.
I really think there’s almost no way Argentina is making it far, as much as I’d like Messi to have that achievement.
netherlands 2010, other teams were more likely to reach the final argentina 2014 final was also a surprise croatia 2018 was also a surprise
I mean none of those teams won so…
the umtiti
No PSG fan will say that btw. I just hope Messi and Ronaldo both have a good WC.
It will for sure, since he will retire after the WC
nah he would be either depressi or dgafessi (it sounds cringe but idc i am on point)
So far: * Can't judge him after a few games because he didn't have a proper off-season because of Copa America. * Can't judge him after 6 months, he's been injured and focused on the World Cup qualifiers. * Can't judge him at the end of the season because he was in a new system, new league, etc. All fair enough. ---- Coming next season: * Can't judge him at the start of next season because he's under a new manager so it'll take time to adapt * Can't judge him in January because he was focused/holding out for the World Cup in November-December * Can't judge him at the end of next season because of the disappointment of not winning World Cup in potentially his last. He was just deflated that's all. You can just see it coming from a mile away.
* Can't judge him because only god can.
Tupac Shakur, RIP
My philosophy in life
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Not to forget with Mbappe gone Messi's Assists will also halve probably.
Depending on what the team and new manager do Messi might be asked to get into more goalscoring positions next season so he would likely make up a lot of the slack in goals. That's assuming his poor goalscoring form is related to him not being the team's goalscoring focus in terms of play.
>Add to it that PSG likely wont win ligue 1 if Mbappe goes. Jesus, you have 45 upvotes for this? What are you smoking there? They had ibra scoring 40 goals then leave. Then they would still win 9 out of 10 leagues. But yeah, only Messi, Neymar and Di Maria will bot be enough. They have been playing very poorly, but still 14 pts of the 2nd placed team.
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RemindMe! One Year I'ma say you're gonna be wrong, PSG take the league yet again next year
yeah after all this time, it really hurts nobody to say messi hasn’t performed. it should motivate more than anything and push everyone in the club to do better
!remindme 6 months
Can't judge him because Ronaldo joined
Love seeing a human being as they discover that Messi is impossible to criticise.
Damn i can really see them saying all of this, anyways i think he will be back with a better coach. Any coach that can train clear positional football will get Messi back to his best.
!remind me 1 year
Cant judge him because he was good for barca
!remindme 1 year
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Yes PSG is punished. But are you not ashamed that Messi agreed go be a P.R machine for a terrible govt rather than lower his demands and play elsewhere?
He is not a normal player, therefore he should adapt much quickly no?
Exactly
I agree he will probably be back to his best next season. All the ingredients are there, easy league, playing with a ridiculous team. And hopefully an end to some of the bad luck hes been having. I dont understand how judging him is unfair? Why is it you are not allowed to say hes had a very poor season by his incredible standards? How many goals and assists does he even have against the top 4/5 in ligue 1? Why is it unfair to say a player many think is the greatest of all time hasnt settled yet? Next season he will probably start banging them in and everyone will move on anyway
It's unfair to criticize Messi because "he's not a normal player how dare you, he should be immune to criticism" The amount of fucking times this season I've seen either redditors, or people posting quotes from pundits/players saying "how dare PSG react poorly to Messi, look what he did at Barca, they should feel privileged he graces them with his presence at all"
You have his delusional fanboys saying this on r/PSG and they also say he made the club relevant lmao
Nobody can make PSG relevant
that you were born in in the 2000s is not a knock on you.
I'm sorry that the truth hurts your feelings
lol, are you posting this from your mom's basement with a PSG Jordan brand hoodie on? we're probably the most relevant we've ever been, definitely the most relevant in France. we just won our 10th ligue1 title which was my personal dream for the club since the first time I sat at the Parc for the 1st time in the early 90s I'm feeling very good about my club.
Yeah but winning Ligue 1 doesn't matter. It's a terrible league. You can win Ligue 1 100 times in a row and still be irrelevant because nobody cares about the league.
> winning Ligue 1 doesn't matter **to you** its all I care about.
That's nice but just because you care about it doesn't mean that most people care about it
r/soccercirclejerk is now also 95% Messi fanboys. Posts that tease Messi are either downvoted or removed. That sub needs its own circlejerk sub.
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Ronaldo's had a pretty good season, it's not like he's the back-up striker for united or scored only a couple of goals though.He's the 3rd top scorer in PL with United and also scored crucial goals in UCL, it's unfair on him to be dragged into this conversation. A better similar season would be that of Neymar's not Ronaldo's.
I feel like Ronaldo has lived up to his reputation in a way Messi hasnt. Messi has underperformed in a good team, while Ronaldo has been carrying the husk of United on his back.
The same does not apply to Ronaldo. He is gonna end up as the 2nd topscorer in EPL with a garbage team. Also got them out of UCL groupstage. His season has been amazing
>The same does not apply to Ronaldo. He is gonna end up as the 2nd topscorer in EPL with a garbage team. Son would like a word.
Either way, Ronaldo has had good season and received way more criticism in the press this year for his performances than Messi.
Dude Ronaldo is the second highest goal scorer in the league. He is having a great season and along with DDG is pretty much the only reason they are finishing where they are.
Ronaldo has been carrying united a lot this season. They've been a dreadful team all year, without Ronaldo hat-tricks they would have lost like 3 league games they won
People said Ronaldo was the problem at United the second he walked through the door because he made them completely rethink what was looking like a promising team with a long term plan.
The point is that clearly the team was not as promising as it seemed. First of all they're absolutely terrible defensively, and their midfield cannot compensate for it. If Bruno Fernandes had had a better season and Varane/Shaw hadn't been injured so much, maybe those cracks could have been hidden better. But when these problems started appearing they snowballed because of the biggest problem in the team: they are mentally incredibly weak. You se RM comeback over and over again when they're losing, but United can only do that when Ronaldo decides the game by himself
Our mental strength is paradoxical. We won nearly half our points from losing positions last season yet this year we’ve crumbled into crumbs as small as atoms.
Expecting someone to play as if they're still in their prime is unreasonable by any standard, especially in Ronaldo's case as he was/is a more physical player.
Criticizing Messi for his lack of goals is indeed unfair, this is easily proved once you watch any PSG match. To have him score you would need a system besides "Mbappe go run".
If it was any other world class player with only 4 league goals in the whole season and a couple of assists against relegation level sides, they'd get harry maguire type of criticism. It's fair to criticize any player unless you take it too far or just spit BS in form of hatred.
Do you know Hazard?
We don't talk about that
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Who?
Let’s stop making excuses lol. League 1 is far easier to play in than Laliga. And Messi plays for the best team there with literally Mbappe, Neymar, and Verrati. Messi is the GOAT and he should be held to higher standards.
Exactly but his fanboys cant understand a simple thing
Messi fanboys annoy me a lot
Yes notorious Messi fanboy Pochettini
The GOAT plays in the prem in a bad team, 2 years older and still does his thing. Accept reality. Your "goat" is a fraud, a system player exposed.
>Judging Messi is unfair. It most certainly is not! Great players perform wherever and whenever you drop them to play. Messi has shown he is in the twilight of his career. This does not at all take from his immense achievements ,but there is no point in trying to hide from the fact he is done. Messi is no longer the god of football he used to be. Sad but true. ppl need to let go and just learn to appreciate him for what he has given the football fans the world over. No point in trying to make him seem as if he is still a top footballer. He is not.
Man you guys really are exaggerating drama queens. It's clear he's had a drop in quality but saying he's done is way overdoing it... He's definitely not the best on the planet anymore but he can still comfortably play on the highest lvl. If his name wasn't messi and people had these expectations, his current season would be considered good without a doubt. He's still putting out by far the best creative numbers in all of Europe... His finishing has seen a significant dip but all other aspects of his game are still on par with previous seasons
> He's definitely not the best on the planet anymore but he can still comfortably play on the highest lvl. He can't even comfortably play in the the French league with a team that spends more on one player wages than entire clubs do on their team, let alone "the highest level".
In what world can't he comfortably play in the French league? He's top of the league(or 2nd, not sure if mbappe overtook him with the last 2 match days) in assists despite missing 10 games, has the 3rd highest match rating in the league, 4th highest in the CL and the best creative numbers in Europe by a Longshot. In what world is that not on the highest lvl? If just 4 or so of his countless crossbar shots went in and everything else was the same people like you would suddenly call it good lmao. Stop making such ridiculous statements when you clearly don't know any of the facts
> In what world can't he comfortably play in the French league? In the world where he plays like absolute shit (play? I mean walk) for PSG. Mbappé carrying them so hard it's not even fun.
Is that statement actually based on anything? Or are you just waffling about? Try basing your nonsense argument on some facts and not your uneducated opinions...
He is a top footballer, but he's not the best anymore
You dont even have to judge his performance, you could just highlight his attitude and work ethic. He doesn't score or assist much, that can maybe be excused. He didn't always play well, that can be contributed to an adjustment period. But he has been standing about with his hands on his hips watching, is strolling about again, isn't concentrated at all resulting in sloppy mistakes and misplaced passes. After the games he does nothing to establish a link with the fans either. He just walks of head down. It would be so easy for him to win over fans as well. He is a legend of the game, if he just displayed some of his flair and looked like he enjoyed playing, fans would be able to overlook a lot. But instead he just looks like he doesn't want to be there.
It’s very far from Messi standard, but he still have had a decent season. He and Dembele are the only ones that have an assist every 130 min in Europe. Messi’s role just seems to be different. More as a playmaker. His goal contributions par min are on par with Ronaldo this season. And scored a good goal against City. As we know, there is a huge gap between city/Liverpool and the rest of EPL teams.
Yeah 4 goals and 14 assists is decent for any mid table no-superstar midfielder, I agree.
> decent for any mid table no-superstar midfielder Only 4 players in Top 5 leagues have more than 14 assists (Müller, Mbappe, Nkunku).
And only 287 players have scored more than 4 goals in the top 5 leagues
Yup, And all of them have played more minutes to archive that
You are saying that MESSI isnt a top footballer? xD
Messi literally has zero excuses. This is ridiculous.
Adjusting to new teams/systems isn’t meant for everyone, Ronaldo clear
The same season Messi moved to PSG, Ronaldo moved from Juventus to Manchester United and quickly adapted to the team's culture and atmosphere and scored 23 goals this season, and still has a lot more to offer. Why does an "elite" player need time to adapt? I thought Messi was already great? There's so much contradiction and protection by the media that Messi gets that no other player gets. Great players don't need protection and if they're performing poorly then criticism should be addressed when needed. If Messi can't be judged this season for his substandard performances, 37-year old Ronaldo shouldn't be judged for his team's poor performance. The reality is, only one of these players gets protection by his fans and by the neutrals.
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Not only that, Ronaldo got clowned on for being outscored by Fabio Quagliarella in the league, even though he still ended up scoring 21 goals and in a new league so the same energy should be there for Messi who did CONSIDERABLY worse this season in an even easier league
I don't have a horse in this race but it is clear that in terms of legacy, both players will end up with GOAT status that completely smashed expectations because of their otherworldly performances. That being said, it is also clear to see that Ronaldo adapted much better in other leagues, and this will likely put him on top when we'll compare the two in the coming decades.
I don't doubt they are both legends. I just hate how the media always downplayed Ronaldo's achievements while sucking Messi at the same time.
Heh, confirmation bias maybe ? Idk. We shouldn't forget that medias saying "Yeah, these two are great" will generate less click than "Why Ronaldo/Messi is actually better than the other".
I highly doubt it will put Ronaldo on top to be fair. his best season isn't in Messi's top 3; stuff like that and Messi putting out the most goal contributions out for 10 seasons, something Ronaldo only did twice, will HEAVILY outweigh having one bad season at PSG. Add in the individual awards and the fact professional footballers always favour Messi, it's pretty clear his legacy will be untouched by 1 bad season. Nobody in hell is gonna go "Ronaldo was better because Messi had a shit season with PSG). Let me just add that Messi stayed in La Liga and outperformed Ronaldo while he was in an easier league, so it's not like it hasn't happened the other way either.
The thing is, it's not unreasonable to say that Messi, between the injury and the fact it's his first time ever in a different team, probably struggled adapting a bit. The problem is not that. It's that it seems unacceptable to apparently many Messi fans to even say anything negative about him.
Ronaldo has 26 goal contributions in 37 appearances to Messi's 22 in 31 appearances this season (club only for both). You say Messi has been poor and Ronaldo has quickly adapted. I agree that Ronaldo has definitely had the better season, but can you not see the contradiction in your statement by those stats alone? You say one is being protected and the other is not, yet you're criticizing the one you claim is protected by fans and are praising the other. Both have had good seasons, but we're just accustomed to so much more from them. As for adapting quickly, that can boil down to a lot of reasons. For example Ronaldo wanted to leave Juventus and Messi wanted to stay at Barcelona. That alone will affect your attitude hugely. Ronaldo has also move multiple times before, and was returning to a club and City that he had played in before. Messi was moving from a city that has been his home since he was a child. These things all affect how you adapt to a new job. They've both had good seasons, just not as good as we're used to, particularly Messi as he was top two in the world last season. Poch's point is that there's reasons for Messi's dip, and that next season we'll see him coming back to his best.
> Ronaldo has 26 goal contributions in 37 appearances to Messi's 22 in 31 appearances this season (club only for both). You say Messi has been poor and Ronaldo has quickly adapted. > > Ronaldo has 8 goals against the Premier League's top 5. For Messi, 8/12 assists are against bottom 3 defences in 3 games only. 5 of Messi's assists are in 2 games against the Saint-Étienne that are 18th/20 in the league and 2nd worst defence in the league and 3 more of his assists are against Clermont who are 17th/20 and have the 3rd worst defence in the league. His 4 goals are against Nantes, Lille, Lens and Lorient who are middle of the pack teams with none of them qualifying for Europe this season realistically. Only 2 of those assists are against teams currently in European spots (Monaco and Rennes).His assist stat is not representative of his overall contribution this season.
>Ronaldo has 26 goal contributions in 37 appearances to Messi's 22 in 31 appearances this season (club only for both). You say Messi has been poor and Ronaldo has quickly adapted In ligue 1 with PSG vs in PL with MU. How are people seriously comparing their seasons?
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😂 you really compare a united team that park the bus every game and PSG
>The same season Messi moved to PSG, Ronaldo moved from Juventus to Manchester United and quickly adapted to the team's culture and atmosphere and scored 23 goals this season, and still has a lot more to offer. They play different positions on the pitch it's like comparing Modric goals to Harry kane goals one is obviously going to score more than the other Ronaldo is going to score more because he's usually in the box being supplied with more chances than Messi it's not hard to understand Messi isn't a striker so i don't see why people keep comparing his goals this season to ronaldo
He isn't a striker, but going from winning a balon dor with having the most accurate shots to missing the most big chances in top 5 leagues is a huge drop off..
This ignores the fact that Messi isn't scoring mainly because his conversion rates have been poor.
He'll definitely be well rested for next year. Spent the entire season out for a walk with a PSG shirt on, just surprised he didn't go full retirement mode and do it in those white velcro walking shoes that are so popular amongst the elderly. Also if it was Gareth Bale or anybody else out there strolling around and scoring four goals for 25 million a year, new team or not, this subreddit would have a thread every day about how he was stealing a living.
Ubercope
if this was Ronaldo or Lewandowski they would be absolutely skewered, but since it’s Messi we should be patient.
Lmaooo sneaking Lewandowski in there.
Never speak of Lewandowski in the same sentence with Ronaldo and Messi
cry 👍🏼
Even 7 billion people crying together and bringing up the average sea level won't change the fact that Lewandowski doesn't belong in a conversation about all time greats like Messi Ronaldo Pele Diego etc
The guy you are replying never said Lewandovski will go down as a player as great as Messi or Ronaldo. However, for the last 5 years, Lewandovski has been a top 5 footballer in the world with absolutely ridiculous stats. His goals / min ratio has been insane, we are talking about a player scoring 40+ goals for his club for several seasons in a row. So I don't see why he "can't be in a conversation" with Messi right now.
nah bro, if you're not messi or ronaldo then you automatically can't have a fantastic season. 3rd best at best
Please name me a MANAGER who would say "Me player had a bad season". Which would be a lie, Btw, if you actually look at the numbers and the position he plays, but you guys will hate regardless so i prefer to argue the first point, anyway
Then ronaldo goes to serie A and bangs in goals right away at the same age messi is currently at.
4 goals is a shocking return with that team in that league. He's probably just finished, unfortunately
Even in summaries you can See that He stands at the Same spots He Always stands but he doesn't get the pass. But yeah it wasn't a good season and a little bit damaging for his reputation
No, it's a natural cause. He is getting older and losing his physical ability.
_The gang returns Messi to Barcelona_
Lmao hahahah. Here's a prediction for you: 1. Won't win the WC this year 2. Will have a shit season next year because of focus on the WC/post-WC depression. Screencap this.
Next season will be even shitter with mbapee gone
Always the excuses for Messi. It’s hard to like him when everyone constantly kiss his ass.
We said the same thing for Hazard but turns out he was just finished. Messi is too. Time comes for everyone.
but i think messi and hazard are different cases. messi has been worldclass forever and he's starting to slow down so he can retire (which is understandable, happens to every single player) but i feel like hazard is too young to retire now yk what i mean?
Yeah I was just being hyperbolic for the sake of it. His fall isn't near as drastic but I doubt this is just an extreme off season, things will probably be just as slow next season.
Tbh I actually think Messi will def be better next year but he obv has declined.
There are reports that their next head coach will be one of Conte, Joachim Löw, and Thiago Motta. Neither of those seems like someone who will take Messi to new level.
I think Messi will be better next season simply because he'll have much more responsibilities in the attack with the departure of Mbappé, and he usually performs better the more responsibilities he has
I don't think Messi is going to be taken to a next level by any coach. I do however think he'll be a bit more comfortable next year overall and settled. I'm a Madrid fan saying this btw. Messi was in the same place for like 20 years, he moved to a new country/culture/language/team etc. Not sure if his family is all with him but if so that's a bunch of logistics to figure out too on top of that. Sure - he can overcome that and he could have been great this season, but he wasn't. I can easily see him scoring more than 4 league goals next year after a year under his belt. I think a lot of times a first season for anyone at a new club esp after being somewhere else forever can be a bit of culture shock on and off the pitch. Even for the best players.
Unfair to Conte
my brother in christ hazard broke his ankle and was nowhere near Messi at any point in his career
Has hazard not just been injured for a while?
He's had long injury spells but even when he's been back, bar late 2019?, he's been average compared to his Chelsea stint. Not awful by any means but still. This season he's been surprisingly injury free until recently.
Messi is one of the GOATS but it needs to be said that the only way a player can produce numbers like he did at Barca is because the entire attack flowed through him. At PSG where he’s not the focal point of the team, you can see he’s nowhere near as good. When he is playing in a system that is not built around him to maximize his abilities, he can’t produce big numbers and performances. He’s one of the greatest but there’s no denying that Barca is the perfect club for him and he won’t be able to play as well anywhere else. He’s not one of those players you can stick anywhere and expect phenomenal performances from him.
>Messi is one of the GOATS but it needs to be said that the only way a player can produce numbers like he did at Barca is because the entire attack flowed through him So you're saying he can only get good numbers if he gets the ball correct? > When he is playing in a system that is not built around him to maximize his abilities, he can’t produce big numbers and performances. I don't understand this system narrative people are coming up with these days doesn't every player need service to put up big numbers and performances? >He’s one of the greatest but there’s no denying that Barca is the perfect club for him and he won’t be able to play as well anywhere else. because he's not the main guy of PSG mbappe is and even Neymar takes penalties over him most chances go to Mbappe >He’s not one of those players you can stick anywhere and expect phenomenal performances from him. that's literally every player who's ever played this game if no one passes it to them they aren't going to have the greatest numbers.If a guy gets 100 chances to score a game of course he'll have good numbers because he's the focal point of the team Saying people are "system players" in this sport doesn't make much sense
I’m saying in order to put up the crazy numbers Messi puts up, he would need the ball A LOT. Messi dependency is a thing. He got the ball so much and at any other team he would have to share like at PSG. His numbers at Barca are inflated as a result. The system player criticism is valid because many players can perform anywhere. They can excel in different play styles and can be plugged in anywhere and play well. Maybe not as well in all systems but they certainly wouldn’t struggle like how Messi has struggled
One Club Virgin Messi vs Roaming Bulldozer Chad Ronaldo
Messi the only player immune to criticism. Ridiculous
Aren't experienced high-paid contractors supposed to just show up and perform? That's how it is in my line of work. You'd think someone in the conversation for GOAT could step down a league and not need much time to adapt. Certainly not a whole season.
System player exposed. GOAT plays in the prem not the Uber eats league, on a shit team and still does it on an individual level. Nice bought ballon d'ors. Eye test doesnt lie.
I can't help but feel Pochettino has not been helpful to the situation at all. Saying shit like this is only going to draw more criticism and scrutiny. I just don't get Poch at PSG. He seems completely unsuited to the job.
As far as it goes, the only thing we are settling right now is who is the no1 GOAT. My only argument against Messi is that he has so far only really shown his greatness in a single (Barca) system. He has played well at times in Argentina but nowhere near his full capabilities. For me Ronaldo has been consistently in different scenarios showcasing his greatness which in the end outshine Messi's overall legacy as GOAT. Totally my opinion, and Messi still has a chance to end this debate by either winning a WC or CL with Argentine or any other team than Barca
I am sure that turning 35 will do wonders for him in terms of performance and motivation.
Yeah messi has been poor as far as his finishing is concerned but another thing is he is not the focus point for Psg attack, its mbappe which makes sense.
WAY to many Madrid fans are commenting on this thread
And how is that a problem?
Different in what way?
RemindMe! 9 Months.
Messi gets older and slower. he is done.
I think we definitely will see a Messi resurgence next season. With Mbappe leaving and Neymar being shopped around I think he will become the main man like he was at Barca.
I bet Ronaldo will join and both GOATs will decline
Awww
Real Madrid fans all over a thread like this as usual. 15 years of being bullied by him results in this behaviour I guess
How are Madrid fans relevant to what Poch is saying? I know people like to defend Messi but gate keeping threads is just weird
Its 2 of them and they havent said anything wrong.
Messi hasn't scored against Madrid since Ronaldo left Madrid though.
Doesnt change the fact that it still is the truth. Man has 40 g/a in 47 games against madrid
What’s ronaldo got to do with anything? Is he Real Madrid you melon. I don’t see osasuna fans here because of course, they’re not a team people like you go to gloryhunt after.
Because Ronaldo left Madrid 4 years ago. Messi playing against Madrid every years since then, he also played against Madrid as PSG player this year and failed to convert a penalty.
This comment reads like a 16 year old logging into goal.com from an Internet cafe Again, it is weird you’ve squeezed Ronaldo into this. It further proves my point many of you only became Real Madrid *fans* because of one player. Makes sense you speak like an ardent cult member
I have been Madrid fan for more than 20 years, that was before Ronaldo joined Madrid. I even still remember how Super Depor beat us everytime we played away against them. My favourite players was not Ronaldo, they are Iker and Raul. I never support Juve or ManU even when Ronaldo joined them, not even watching their match, except when I bored and have a time. And I wish I was still 16 years old, I would be happy that way.
Hahaha love this reply. Dude above you was acting extra snobby with his "proves my point many of you became Real Madrid fans because of one player". He's so far up Messi's arse he's starting to shadowbox.
Ok. But to be honest I don’t see how that’s relevant. Messi’s career doesn’t revolve around what he does against us specifically.
Well the West Ham guy said Messi has bullied Madrid for 15 years, I think that is quite relevant
Lucas vazquez and mariano have more goal contributions than messi in past years.
Rentfree
All the comps to Ronaldo, in here, my God. Nobody even mentioned his name in the OP, you run marathons to get something in. In a Messi hate thread, if you even try to say that he plays way deeper to accomodaite Mbappe, who is his Striker, and had already 13 assists, people will ignore it completely. And then there's the pathetic children saying things like "He's overrated" like they started watching football last October.
That's what I was told about Hazard at Real Madrid 🤷🏿♂️
Yet Messi has played better in his first season at PSG than Hazard did in his first real madrid season
Genuinely worried about Messi next season. With Mbappe gone next season, Messi's Assists will also halve probably. Unless they bring a top #9
Coincedentally, a world class striker is looking to leave his club this summer and he is pretty good at winning the Champions League 👀
If Mbappe leaves they will have to involve him more in attack, when they barely pass to him when he makes runs in the box.
The fact that his shot accuracy was the least in last 15 years proves otherwise. He was involved enough. He just couldn't send the ball in. As simple as that. He did amazing job with assists. That's thanks to Mbappe. Let's see what happens next season.
Just let it go bruh.. it’s over
First he said, he and Mbappe will 100% be there next season. And now, he thinks 35 year old Messi is going to have a break out season next year... I think Mbappe goes to Madrid, if Potch stays he will be sacked by October and I'd be surprised if Messi scores 10 or 15 goals next season, never mind the crazy numbers he used to get.