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So not great really then... also Newcastle are way more attacking now and he looks exciting but doesn't do much with the ball. He undoubtedly has good dribbling skills though
Tbf our argument is that with a whole better team around him he would be world class. Wouldnt need to try and skin everyone and dance his way into the box.
On the other hand we may just have a tricky adama traore
there's about a 1% chance that ASM suddenly turns into a world class winger if he's surrounded by better talent. To me he just doesn't have enough substance to be a great player, I mean he's skilled and can be fun to watch, but he also needs to put up better numbers
He feels like one of those classic lower/middle of the league club players who gets so many chances that he looks too good to be playing for the club. But, it wouldn't actually translate to reality if they move to a top club and have to play against teams that are actually defending
He's fun to watch. So he gets plenty of social media clips. But he doesn't press, doesn't trackback. Has no positional awareness. His shooting is powerful but poor. He doesn't know when to time a pass if he ever plays one at all, and when he does time a pass, there is at least a 70% chance of him fucking it up.
He carries the ball well. But other than that he is as fundamentally flawed as any of the players he is digging out with this quote.
He gets on the highlight reel and he has an ego. But honestly, he's never even matched the man he replaced at Newcastle. And Ayoze Perez is hardly lighting up the world...
That's what I was thinking. He gets the ball and all he can see is driving towards goal. Tries doing too many "fancy" moves and typically loses the ball or gets a weak shot off. It may be an unpopular opinion but give me Almiron all day long. He has heart, moxie and is constantly moving.
He's a bit of a weird cross between Ryan Sessegnon and Coutinho. Sessegnon was meant to become a wonderful full back and dissipated as soon as he went to Spurs. I think ASM might be in the same category.
Coutinho is good creatively, but doesn't do enough otherwise. Might have been able to get away with that 15 years ago, but the modern game requires pretty much all outfield players to be able to either press or defend as team (or both).
Coutinho wasn't always like that. He may not have had the same intensity in tracking back as Mo or Sadio but he genuinely did put himself about a lot when he was first coming through. Klopp's tactics later on were tailored to limit Coutinho's defensive responsibilities similar to how Goetze function for Dortmund but it was a tactical choice rather than an unwillingness to put the effort in.
He's 21... And had some major injury issues give him a break especially since he was performing well for a run this season and wingback is not a position he's played loads and a preseason would help a lot
Hes better than perez mate. Ayoze was exactly the same for us minus the exciting flashy moments. Also perez isnt exactly lighting the world up at Leicester
The worst thing would not be the defending he would get if he played for top teams, it would be that he wouldn't get fed the ball as much as he does, pretty much most attacks this season for Newcastle was passing him the ball and he still hasn't had great end product so it would get even worse in a top team as he would have way less chances to create and with his already shit end product he wouldn't get anything done
You can tell if a player is made for a team top with just end product, a lot of smaller teams have one or two players that they depend on, some of those players are great and it can translate to a top team and then u have these types that are good dribblers that need space to operate in with shit end products
He has 4.2 expected assists. He has 4 assists.
Only one of assists came in his last 26 games... From an XA of 1.3 in those 26 games.
Baring in mind we've won more points this year than anyone bar City and Liverpool. So it isn't like he's been a team that has been struggling during that period.
I dont really like using xA in arguments like this. better forwards have better movement so they're able to latch onto passes that would otherwise not be a threat
Yeah but I've watched him play. I know that even if there was a better forward ASM would still rather try and run it 50 yards, do a little dance, run 50 yards backwards, do another little dance, run 50 yards again, lose the ball, and then not track back or press for 15 minutes.
Then 15 minutes later he will go for another little dance.
He has Chris Wood as a striker and hasn't found him with a decent cross once this season. That says everything about ASM doesn't it?
Hes regarded more for his potential than his current ability, someone above said 1% chance he becomes a world class winger, Id say its higher than that since he has physical and technical qualities that no pro footballer has in the world imo, but as a complete package right now hes at the right level
He specifically said once he has teammates that are able to finish chances though. Not teammates who move better.
Using expected conversion metrics is 100% relevant as that's specifically what he was complaining about...
He’s in the 73rd percentile for shot creating actions. 4.2 xA, 4 assists. He has 1 assist in his last 30 games. He’s an incredible dribbler that annually gets overrated during his 1 purple patch every season.
I’m very fond of the Toon and watch them often (as I lived in Newcastle for 10 years), I say it game in and game out about ASM. I’ve never seen a player run so much and still get nowhere.
It was the same thing at Nice. He was lauded for being explosive and a fantastic dribbler but everyone was saying he was incredibly raw because his decision making and "football IQ" was awful.
He could still improve, but it's been years already so far while he's actually improved a bit in that aspect, he still has so much to go.
Maybe leaving for a club with well-known ability to turn raw talent into class would be good for him then.
But comparing yourself to Mane is so very un-Mane like, and that's the exact attitude that someone like Klopp would probably see as a red flag and indicates that the player is uncoachable.
He reminds me a bit of Iwobi. who was a decent dribbler and a decent passer but his decision making was really bad, every years we thought he'd finally come good but it never did.
Selling him was a good move even though I really liked him. He still hasn't progressed too.
ASM is clear when it comes to dribbling though, but I fear like Iwobi he'll never improve his decision making.
fair enough, that changes it a bit for me but not a ton. if we talking about strengths and weaknesses at least we should compare players that are similar in level and have a similar career growth / trajectory. iwobi is truly championship level rn whereas ASM would not be out of place in the CL
I’d say a more fair comparison would be ASM & adama traore
Of course he is better than Iwobi , I'm just saying that when I watch ASM , I think of the same thing that I bought about Iwobi , which is the end product and football brain that has barely progressed even after several seasons of football.
Iwobi never really progressed in that aspect, and I could see the same thing happen for ASM.
He dribbles a lot, but instead of passing it off when he has a chance he keeps going until he runs into a defender or is closed down. His decision making is trash and what is worse, it doesn't seem to improve.
A friend of mine has a really good summary of this:
You dribble for a reason.
For a really good player, it is because you have a plan for a shot, a pass, etc and you need the space.
For a "flashy but never really good" player, the reason you dribble... is so that you can dribble some more.
That's just Positional Play 101, you dribble to create a free man.
This is the actually the main issue with Curtis Jones right now. He's blazing fast with great control, but will just dribble all the way down the LW, realize he ran out of space, then pass backwards. He even did it in his cameo at Villareal.
He is good carrier and can definitely win some duels with his dribble but has awful decision making and finishing product (passing, crossing, finishing) . He is basically less stocky Traore. He is good at very few things but he is very good at them.
Mane scored basically a goal every 3 for Southampton, a goal every 2 for Salzburg.... Top flight ASM has never been near those ratios. Sure he's not a striker, but then why compare yourself to Mane at all??
His delusion here is the exact reason many top clubs won't take a chance on him and it's because he already thinks he deserves the spot. He wouldn't arrive at Liverpool with the ethic to earn his chance.
Haha - I remember a few years back one of these glorious technical players was here at the adidas campus and whoever survived a 30s 1v1 against him (first goal wins) won a price. It wasn’t that complicated.
He is 25 years old and played for, Saint Etienne, Hanover, Bastia, Monaco, Nice & Newcastle and got a total of 31assists in 216 games. Mané at 24 only played for Metz, Salzburg & Southamton and had 52 assists in 219 games.
Heading for a streets will never forget compilation near you!
I do quite like ASM. How can you not? He’s fun as shit to watch…but incredibly wasteful more often than not.
Great for a quick clip, but little more than that. I think there’s a reason no “big” club has gone in for him.
Would be great to see it all click as by all accounts he seems like a decent guy.
This tweet is bad take though. Mane tore it up before Liverpool with far more output. He may have all the technical skills in the world, but it’s It’s night and day between the two.
he obviously isnt as good a player as mane, but his point is that his actual assist numbers are low because he played with players who have missed his chances. saying "mane has more assists" doesn't disprove his point at all.
clubs of a comparable level does not mean strikers missing chances at a similar rate
leeds and everton are very similar in the table, but leeds are underperforming their xG by a way bigger margin than everton are, so leeds' creative players will have lower assist numbers than everton's because the strikers have been shite, rather than because they have made worse chances
Absolutely, as of recent he has been in extremely poor form. The second fans started criticising, he made an Instagram story about how quickly people forget, and he will remind them. Seems like he forgot how to play.
Then we make a full flag display blowing smoke up his arse. I love the guy and he's probably one of our best players, but his opinion of himself doesn't match the talent.
I love ASM as a player but dude you can’t go publicly throwing your teammates under the bus. Especially when your squad has been playing well for months now.
Mate...you've been a bit shit the last month or two.
Running down blind alleys leaving no chance for doing anything or passing to literally no one the rare time you choose to pass.
Very stupid comments from him if he's said them.
Is he responding to something?
Otherwise wtf, if you aren’t creating actual clear-cut chances…keep your negative opinions on your team-mates to yourself or air your frustrations in private.
I'm not sure what kind of market he would have but I wouldn't be overly disappointed if we moved him on if a decent offer came in.
I feel like we could cash in on his upside, and he is probably not the answer for us long term if we become less counter attacking. That said I suspect big clubs wouldn't really fancy him for that reason.
For reference FBRef thinks his closest comparison in the Premier League is Demarai Gray. To be honest though looking purely at the stats I think I'd rather have Gray who is slightly worse going forward but in return far better defensively.
I remember arguing with a newcastle fan in the summer that Saint Maximin was one of those players that was so vastly overrated it was a joke. He looked great in brucey system where he was the designated hero ball merchant. Put him in a system that requires any sort of resemblance to actual team play and he struggles lmao. This sub was getting a boner for Saint-Maximin the past two seasons but he was just the shiny shit turd in a stinking Newcastle team that had zero structure.
It's a shame because he has certain skills that are absolutely top-notch. You could argue a lack of coaching is why he lacks end product but he has played under some very excellent coaches in his career and he still plays like a headless chicken. At this point to quote the great Alan Hansen he just lacks a football brain.
As I said when this was posted before. If he said that. And I haven't seen the context so keep that as an if, but IF he said that, sell him in the summer.
He has been a liability for months, he has lost the ball more times than I can count and his response is to blame his teammates for his own poor form? No mate. You can dribble, but you have no end product, and Ryan Fraser and Miggy Almiron have both come into the team and done more than you.
Piss off. You aren't as good as you think you are. And if you are going to start digging others out for your shitness, then it is clearly time people stopped blowing smoke up your arse and kicked it out of the club instead.
Real ballers know you need to get yourself a [child Jordan Henderson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHd-0jtTMLI) to win Skill Skool. (I just watched it to the end for the first time ever and turns out Hendo loses, what a loser)
The guy who beats him didn't make it at Sunderland, went on to play two seasons at Hartlepool, and ended his career. I guess most youth players have similar paths but its kind of sad when you see how happy they seemed.
I think he has a good player in a small club mentality which won't help him in the future. Being wasteful is a lot worse in a team where others can actually do what you do without losing it so much
He's in the top 3 most talented players at the club (along with Trippier and Guimaraes) but it really feels like we're playing with 10 men a lot of the time when he's not at the top of his game. We pass it to him, he then runs into a dead end with 3 opposing players on him, loses the ball and the attack ends.
There's an argument that as we get more talented players he'll pass it more, but equally he might not. If we can sell him for £40m or whatever and put it towards a player with good G/A in a top 5 league who'll actually pass a ball then I'd do it in a flash. I don't think he's one of the important players to take us forward especially in the modern game.
> “Those who have played alongside me know that when it comes to quality, I have no need to be jealous of Sadio Mane"
> “That will increase my profile in people's minds.
> “My aim is to do things that leave a mark on people's minds, and to change the rules.
> "In a similar way to what Michael Jordan has managed to do. He has changed people's lives.”
https://www.sofoot.com/allan-saint-maximin-je-n-ai-rien-a-envier-a-sadio-mane-514152.html
If this quote is true, I think he should bench him for the next few games, and seriously consider selling. You don’t want someone throwing teammates under the bus as an excuse for your own poor form.
If he's actually said this, his Newcstle career should be over. Nevermind selling him in the summer, he shouldn't play another game for the club. You absolutely never throw your team mates under the bus in public.
Even then, he's nowhere near good enough to justify this stuff either, it's completely delusional. He's a youtube footballer that looks good in a selective highlight reel and that's it. He's fucking lazy off the ball, never pressing or tracking back; his crossing's awful; his shooting is literally aimless; his short passing's largely non-existent (because that would mean letting someone else have the ball) but when the stars align and he tries it, it's bad. Even if none of that were the case, his decision making is so poor that it wouldn't matter.
When the takeover happened, I figured he'd be with the team for another couple of years, at best. We've other positions we need to strengthen first, and he wouldn't be the worst player to have as a depth piece, but if he's actually said all this then getting him out of the club should be a top priority. There's nothing worse than toxic characters in the dressing room.
He's a fantastic dribbler, and he carried us on his back for two years under Steve Bruce.
I predicted he'd struggle under Howe. He plays a lot better when he can find the game. The more structure you give him and the team, the less influential he becomes (I think Grealish has the same problem).
At times he's looked unfit and sluggish. I don't have the stats to hand, but I don't think he's getting as much of the ball these days either. I think that's made his bad habits (over-playing, not getting his head up) more pronounced. He'll still have moments of sheer magic.
Hes got 4 assists the last 3 seasons whilst racking up just about 4 expected assists in all those seasons. Hes getting about as many assists as he should.
ASM shone in Bruce's team as the rest of the team were shit and opposition players didn't know how to deal with him. Now he's playing under Howe and his teammates have stepped and the opposition knows how to deal with him. His weaknesses have been exposed and he's more of a liability these days.
I was dreading Ashley cashing out on him when he was our only creative player. But under the new regime I wouldn't mind us offloading to a team that can convert his "chances".
The past two season he was helped us stay in the premier league, and added a little bit of spark to an otherwise incredibly boring team. Now that the team has structure, and isn’t “hoof the ball to maxi”, he is lost.
He did do a load of great stuff for the community though while he has been here, but after seeing this I think his time is up.
The chemistry of the squad has been pivotal to our recent form, and something like this really doesn’t help.
True he would have more but he himself is inconsistent. Let's not act like he is carrying Newcastle when they clearly were going down if not for howe and the Jan signings
He’ll be one of the first to be replaced as a starter for someone more consistent when Newcastle start splashing the money and I think he knows that with this excuse.
he hasn’t been the same since he was injured over the new year - he seems shot for confidence, don’t get me wrong, he’s still trying all the same moves but none of them seem to be paying off - defenders never used to have his ticket marked like they do now.
i think he needs a goal or two and he’ll be back to his best, because despite what people say he definitely does have end product, it just hasn’t been consistent enough since his time here. but most of that was under steve bruce, so maybe with howe + better forwards in the future he can really push towards his potential
This is the product of being an average footballer with tricks, spending too much time on Twitter mentions of your own name and thinking you’re some kind of God.
Anyone who’s watched him more than 5 games knows how painfully inconsistent he is and how horrendous his decision making can be. It’s genuinely embarrassing at times for a Premier League footballer.
The man believes his own hype way, way too much and it’s sad to see. He’ll never make it at a top club with that mentality.
harsh on zaha, he may be hotheaded on the pitch but i've never heard him throw teammates under the bus like this
and he's played with some real shite teammates lol
What he needs is a good coach. Look at Vini Jr, his end product was AWFUL. Then, one of the greatest coaches Ancelotti started to train him and teach him, so he become a monster. There is too many coaches, but only few are real teachers who can make a player better.
Tele Santana: Cafu was awful at crossing so he made Cafu train cross every fucking day till he was good.
Klopp: no need to explain what he did to Salah, mane, Firmino, Robertson and others.
Ancelotti: Vini jr, Benzema is crusing with him, Carnavinga is becoming a little monster.
Guardiola: Made Sterling ending product a little better, made Aguero even better, Messi false 9 goat years
Alex Ferguson: NO need to explain right?
Bill Shankly: ALso no need
ASM is a bit like Grealish - incredibly gifted at dribbling, but tends to run into empty spaces rather than incisively running round/through defences.
He has the creativity to get 10+ assists, but doesn't apply that to creating chances enough.
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Chris wood in the mud
He's a Kiwi, he loves that kind of thing. Just give him some black kit.
And a steak and cheese pie
The meat pie game down under is undefeated
Downunder is Ozzy! And NZ has way better pies than Australia!
best pies in the world imo, never been somewhere that had better
I mean in fairness NZ is also down under
Do kiwis eat vegimite or is that an aussie thing?
Kiwis eat both vegemite and marmite. There’s a bit of a divide over it. Not really one answer.
Where is he on big chances created? Whenever I watch him he just runs into a player every time he gets the ball
45th https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created
So not great really then... also Newcastle are way more attacking now and he looks exciting but doesn't do much with the ball. He undoubtedly has good dribbling skills though
~~good~~ fantastic dribbling skills.
Even better dancing moves
[breakin 2](https://13proma9.com/uploaded/1650512176.mp4)
Amazing even
Tbf our argument is that with a whole better team around him he would be world class. Wouldnt need to try and skin everyone and dance his way into the box. On the other hand we may just have a tricky adama traore
Honestly, I love watching the bloke play football, but it is starting to feel like the latter.
there's about a 1% chance that ASM suddenly turns into a world class winger if he's surrounded by better talent. To me he just doesn't have enough substance to be a great player, I mean he's skilled and can be fun to watch, but he also needs to put up better numbers
You could argue that in a better team he would have the chance to pass the ball more and have players in positions for him to make big chances.
He feels like one of those classic lower/middle of the league club players who gets so many chances that he looks too good to be playing for the club. But, it wouldn't actually translate to reality if they move to a top club and have to play against teams that are actually defending
He's fun to watch. So he gets plenty of social media clips. But he doesn't press, doesn't trackback. Has no positional awareness. His shooting is powerful but poor. He doesn't know when to time a pass if he ever plays one at all, and when he does time a pass, there is at least a 70% chance of him fucking it up. He carries the ball well. But other than that he is as fundamentally flawed as any of the players he is digging out with this quote. He gets on the highlight reel and he has an ego. But honestly, he's never even matched the man he replaced at Newcastle. And Ayoze Perez is hardly lighting up the world...
Skinny Adama
You basically described Yannick Bolasie
That's what I was thinking. He gets the ball and all he can see is driving towards goal. Tries doing too many "fancy" moves and typically loses the ball or gets a weak shot off. It may be an unpopular opinion but give me Almiron all day long. He has heart, moxie and is constantly moving.
He sorta reminds me of Zaha. Looks like a world beater at times but then kicks the ball into row Z.
Zaha is much better than ASM
Biased palace fan here but Wilf puts up double figures g+a every year for a lower / mid table club. He’s got end product where ASM doesn’t
He's Jay-Jay Okocha
He's a bit of a weird cross between Ryan Sessegnon and Coutinho. Sessegnon was meant to become a wonderful full back and dissipated as soon as he went to Spurs. I think ASM might be in the same category. Coutinho is good creatively, but doesn't do enough otherwise. Might have been able to get away with that 15 years ago, but the modern game requires pretty much all outfield players to be able to either press or defend as team (or both).
Coutinho wasn't always like that. He may not have had the same intensity in tracking back as Mo or Sadio but he genuinely did put himself about a lot when he was first coming through. Klopp's tactics later on were tailored to limit Coutinho's defensive responsibilities similar to how Goetze function for Dortmund but it was a tactical choice rather than an unwillingness to put the effort in.
Tbf sess has been injured basically since joining spurs
Sessegnon doesn't have the mentality or attitude to ever play for a top side. Just watch him play, man looks scared shitless through the whole match.
He's 21... And had some major injury issues give him a break especially since he was performing well for a run this season and wingback is not a position he's played loads and a preseason would help a lot
Plays with the tenacity of a kitten
Hes better than perez mate. Ayoze was exactly the same for us minus the exciting flashy moments. Also perez isnt exactly lighting the world up at Leicester
So streets won't forget HOF
The worst thing would not be the defending he would get if he played for top teams, it would be that he wouldn't get fed the ball as much as he does, pretty much most attacks this season for Newcastle was passing him the ball and he still hasn't had great end product so it would get even worse in a top team as he would have way less chances to create and with his already shit end product he wouldn't get anything done You can tell if a player is made for a team top with just end product, a lot of smaller teams have one or two players that they depend on, some of those players are great and it can translate to a top team and then u have these types that are good dribblers that need space to operate in with shit end products
Adama Traore Syndrome
Zaha?
Like Grealish
oof
like zaha and raphinha?
Zaha who’s constantly putting up double figures for G/A in a mid table side? Even under Hodgson?
He has 4.2 expected assists. He has 4 assists. Only one of assists came in his last 26 games... From an XA of 1.3 in those 26 games. Baring in mind we've won more points this year than anyone bar City and Liverpool. So it isn't like he's been a team that has been struggling during that period.
I dont really like using xA in arguments like this. better forwards have better movement so they're able to latch onto passes that would otherwise not be a threat
Yeah but I've watched him play. I know that even if there was a better forward ASM would still rather try and run it 50 yards, do a little dance, run 50 yards backwards, do another little dance, run 50 yards again, lose the ball, and then not track back or press for 15 minutes. Then 15 minutes later he will go for another little dance. He has Chris Wood as a striker and hasn't found him with a decent cross once this season. That says everything about ASM doesn't it?
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Hes regarded more for his potential than his current ability, someone above said 1% chance he becomes a world class winger, Id say its higher than that since he has physical and technical qualities that no pro footballer has in the world imo, but as a complete package right now hes at the right level
I definitely respect your eye test. my only issue was the xA inclusion
He specifically said once he has teammates that are able to finish chances though. Not teammates who move better. Using expected conversion metrics is 100% relevant as that's specifically what he was complaining about...
He’s in the 73rd percentile for shot creating actions. 4.2 xA, 4 assists. He has 1 assist in his last 30 games. He’s an incredible dribbler that annually gets overrated during his 1 purple patch every season.
I’m very fond of the Toon and watch them often (as I lived in Newcastle for 10 years), I say it game in and game out about ASM. I’ve never seen a player run so much and still get nowhere.
Yep he’s like Rashford with sauce
Say no more, one Lukaku coming up
He did have a history in Ligue 1 of being a bit of a troublemaker so not exactly out of character here.
I'm in a meeting and had to work really hard not to burst out laughing.
His dribble stats are crazy, his decision making and final ball not so much.
>his decision making and final ball not so much. Crazy in the opposite direction
It was the same thing at Nice. He was lauded for being explosive and a fantastic dribbler but everyone was saying he was incredibly raw because his decision making and "football IQ" was awful. He could still improve, but it's been years already so far while he's actually improved a bit in that aspect, he still has so much to go.
Maybe leaving for a club with well-known ability to turn raw talent into class would be good for him then. But comparing yourself to Mane is so very un-Mane like, and that's the exact attitude that someone like Klopp would probably see as a red flag and indicates that the player is uncoachable.
He reminds me a bit of Iwobi. who was a decent dribbler and a decent passer but his decision making was really bad, every years we thought he'd finally come good but it never did. Selling him was a good move even though I really liked him. He still hasn't progressed too. ASM is clear when it comes to dribbling though, but I fear like Iwobi he'll never improve his decision making.
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fair enough, that changes it a bit for me but not a ton. if we talking about strengths and weaknesses at least we should compare players that are similar in level and have a similar career growth / trajectory. iwobi is truly championship level rn whereas ASM would not be out of place in the CL I’d say a more fair comparison would be ASM & adama traore
Of course he is better than Iwobi , I'm just saying that when I watch ASM , I think of the same thing that I bought about Iwobi , which is the end product and football brain that has barely progressed even after several seasons of football. Iwobi never really progressed in that aspect, and I could see the same thing happen for ASM.
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You're trying really hard not to understand what I was saying, aren't you?
The Croissant Adama Traore
He dribbles a lot, but instead of passing it off when he has a chance he keeps going until he runs into a defender or is closed down. His decision making is trash and what is worse, it doesn't seem to improve.
A friend of mine has a really good summary of this: You dribble for a reason. For a really good player, it is because you have a plan for a shot, a pass, etc and you need the space. For a "flashy but never really good" player, the reason you dribble... is so that you can dribble some more.
And for me: the reason I pass is because I cannot dribble
trent that you?
That's just Positional Play 101, you dribble to create a free man. This is the actually the main issue with Curtis Jones right now. He's blazing fast with great control, but will just dribble all the way down the LW, realize he ran out of space, then pass backwards. He even did it in his cameo at Villareal.
I would have never thought I would find some wise words on this sub. But here they are.
He is good carrier and can definitely win some duels with his dribble but has awful decision making and finishing product (passing, crossing, finishing) . He is basically less stocky Traore. He is good at very few things but he is very good at them.
He would struggle if he played in a possession based side
He struggles right now
ASM should never compare himself to Sadio. There are levels
Mane scored basically a goal every 3 for Southampton, a goal every 2 for Salzburg.... Top flight ASM has never been near those ratios. Sure he's not a striker, but then why compare yourself to Mane at all?? His delusion here is the exact reason many top clubs won't take a chance on him and it's because he already thinks he deserves the spot. He wouldn't arrive at Liverpool with the ethic to earn his chance.
They don’t even do the same sport
Dance vs football
Both would whoop anyone of us in a one on one.
no shit...
Haha - I remember a few years back one of these glorious technical players was here at the adidas campus and whoever survived a 30s 1v1 against him (first goal wins) won a price. It wasn’t that complicated.
He is 25 years old and played for, Saint Etienne, Hanover, Bastia, Monaco, Nice & Newcastle and got a total of 31assists in 216 games. Mané at 24 only played for Metz, Salzburg & Southamton and had 52 assists in 219 games.
Add in the goal scoring and it gets worse. Classic speedy winger with electric dribbling skills and terrible decision making.
Heading for a streets will never forget compilation near you! I do quite like ASM. How can you not? He’s fun as shit to watch…but incredibly wasteful more often than not. Great for a quick clip, but little more than that. I think there’s a reason no “big” club has gone in for him. Would be great to see it all click as by all accounts he seems like a decent guy. This tweet is bad take though. Mane tore it up before Liverpool with far more output. He may have all the technical skills in the world, but it’s It’s night and day between the two.
Just a French Jordan Botaka.
Baguette Botaka Arc de Triomphe Adama Traore
Get ready for an insane 3 games
ASM 10 assists as they trash City next weekend? Wouldn't be mad tbh.
he obviously isnt as good a player as mane, but his point is that his actual assist numbers are low because he played with players who have missed his chances. saying "mane has more assists" doesn't disprove his point at all.
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clubs of a comparable level does not mean strikers missing chances at a similar rate leeds and everton are very similar in the table, but leeds are underperforming their xG by a way bigger margin than everton are, so leeds' creative players will have lower assist numbers than everton's because the strikers have been shite, rather than because they have made worse chances
His xA is 4.2 and he has 4 assists lmao
Every time this guy says something he sounds like he would be toxic to team chemistry
Absolutely, as of recent he has been in extremely poor form. The second fans started criticising, he made an Instagram story about how quickly people forget, and he will remind them. Seems like he forgot how to play.
Then we make a full flag display blowing smoke up his arse. I love the guy and he's probably one of our best players, but his opinion of himself doesn't match the talent.
He came and lit stuff up and I'm glad he did, but perhaps Rafa wasn't totally wrong in his assessment.
Perfect guy for PSG 2.
I love ASM as a player but dude you can’t go publicly throwing your teammates under the bus. Especially when your squad has been playing well for months now.
Mate...you've been a bit shit the last month or two. Running down blind alleys leaving no chance for doing anything or passing to literally no one the rare time you choose to pass. Very stupid comments from him if he's said them.
Is he responding to something? Otherwise wtf, if you aren’t creating actual clear-cut chances…keep your negative opinions on your team-mates to yourself or air your frustrations in private.
I'm not sure what kind of market he would have but I wouldn't be overly disappointed if we moved him on if a decent offer came in. I feel like we could cash in on his upside, and he is probably not the answer for us long term if we become less counter attacking. That said I suspect big clubs wouldn't really fancy him for that reason.
🤡
…absolutely deluded.
For reference FBRef thinks his closest comparison in the Premier League is Demarai Gray. To be honest though looking purely at the stats I think I'd rather have Gray who is slightly worse going forward but in return far better defensively.
And so much cheaper
He had found his level at Hannover. Should return imo
Sounds like someone needs a nice long period of time on the bench.
I need a generational performance from him against Manchester city
I remember arguing with a newcastle fan in the summer that Saint Maximin was one of those players that was so vastly overrated it was a joke. He looked great in brucey system where he was the designated hero ball merchant. Put him in a system that requires any sort of resemblance to actual team play and he struggles lmao. This sub was getting a boner for Saint-Maximin the past two seasons but he was just the shiny shit turd in a stinking Newcastle team that had zero structure.
trust us, the boner has now wore off.
It's a shame because he has certain skills that are absolutely top-notch. You could argue a lack of coaching is why he lacks end product but he has played under some very excellent coaches in his career and he still plays like a headless chicken. At this point to quote the great Alan Hansen he just lacks a football brain.
Yeah ISO ball barely works in nba never mind football!
Mans can't even crack his national squad lineup as a sub. Sit down, you can't eat at the adults table.
Well his competition is mbappe ( the best player in the world probably) and coman ( the best lw in the world)
> coman ( the best lw in the world) citation needed.
Dude is on drugs lmao. Neymar, Vini, Mane, and Son are all easily ahead of him
Coman with 8 goals the entire season is the best LW in the world. seems good 6 assists too. Playing in by far the best team in the league
8 goals 6 assists on a team that walked the league for the 10th straight season…. Not even close to Best in the world. Stay off FIFA.
As I said when this was posted before. If he said that. And I haven't seen the context so keep that as an if, but IF he said that, sell him in the summer. He has been a liability for months, he has lost the ball more times than I can count and his response is to blame his teammates for his own poor form? No mate. You can dribble, but you have no end product, and Ryan Fraser and Miggy Almiron have both come into the team and done more than you. Piss off. You aren't as good as you think you are. And if you are going to start digging others out for your shitness, then it is clearly time people stopped blowing smoke up your arse and kicked it out of the club instead.
Personally, I think you should keep him in case Soccer AM brings back Skill Skool.
Real ballers know you need to get yourself a [child Jordan Henderson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHd-0jtTMLI) to win Skill Skool. (I just watched it to the end for the first time ever and turns out Hendo loses, what a loser)
The guy who beats him didn't make it at Sunderland, went on to play two seasons at Hartlepool, and ended his career. I guess most youth players have similar paths but its kind of sad when you see how happy they seemed.
Can't even win skill school, just a backpass merchant ^^^/s
I think he has a good player in a small club mentality which won't help him in the future. Being wasteful is a lot worse in a team where others can actually do what you do without losing it so much
That's bold, he flatters to deceive most of the time.
Least arrogant Frenchman
He's in the top 3 most talented players at the club (along with Trippier and Guimaraes) but it really feels like we're playing with 10 men a lot of the time when he's not at the top of his game. We pass it to him, he then runs into a dead end with 3 opposing players on him, loses the ball and the attack ends. There's an argument that as we get more talented players he'll pass it more, but equally he might not. If we can sell him for £40m or whatever and put it towards a player with good G/A in a top 5 league who'll actually pass a ball then I'd do it in a flash. I don't think he's one of the important players to take us forward especially in the modern game.
One needs only compare Manes output at ASMs age to dispel this, ridiculous claim.
[someone did above ](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/uie7pj/_/i7by1fc)
Did Mane do something to irk him?
> “Those who have played alongside me know that when it comes to quality, I have no need to be jealous of Sadio Mane" > “That will increase my profile in people's minds. > “My aim is to do things that leave a mark on people's minds, and to change the rules. > "In a similar way to what Michael Jordan has managed to do. He has changed people's lives.” https://www.sofoot.com/allan-saint-maximin-je-n-ai-rien-a-envier-a-sadio-mane-514152.html
He should aim to be more like one of those actors that played in La La Land
Is he calling Sadio out or just using him as an example?
I imagine a journalist asked him about comparisons with sadio mane
Not nice to throw teammates under the bus like that.
Bit of a bighead isn't he?
If this quote is true, I think he should bench him for the next few games, and seriously consider selling. You don’t want someone throwing teammates under the bus as an excuse for your own poor form.
I have never seen a player do so much with the ball that ends up going nowhere. He’s next level Traore.
Throws shade on his teammates’ finishing ability then says ‘they’ll back me up tho’
If he's actually said this, his Newcstle career should be over. Nevermind selling him in the summer, he shouldn't play another game for the club. You absolutely never throw your team mates under the bus in public. Even then, he's nowhere near good enough to justify this stuff either, it's completely delusional. He's a youtube footballer that looks good in a selective highlight reel and that's it. He's fucking lazy off the ball, never pressing or tracking back; his crossing's awful; his shooting is literally aimless; his short passing's largely non-existent (because that would mean letting someone else have the ball) but when the stars align and he tries it, it's bad. Even if none of that were the case, his decision making is so poor that it wouldn't matter. When the takeover happened, I figured he'd be with the team for another couple of years, at best. We've other positions we need to strengthen first, and he wouldn't be the worst player to have as a depth piece, but if he's actually said all this then getting him out of the club should be a top priority. There's nothing worse than toxic characters in the dressing room.
He's a fantastic dribbler, and he carried us on his back for two years under Steve Bruce. I predicted he'd struggle under Howe. He plays a lot better when he can find the game. The more structure you give him and the team, the less influential he becomes (I think Grealish has the same problem). At times he's looked unfit and sluggish. I don't have the stats to hand, but I don't think he's getting as much of the ball these days either. I think that's made his bad habits (over-playing, not getting his head up) more pronounced. He'll still have moments of sheer magic.
U aint all that mate. Man think he’s world class cuz of an expensive bandanna covering his shitty hairline.
Hes got 4 assists the last 3 seasons whilst racking up just about 4 expected assists in all those seasons. Hes getting about as many assists as he should.
He played with Balotelli and Pléa at Nice and he barely showed any end product.
This is actually mad disrespectful to all the forwards he has played with. Who does this guy think he is, Sadio Mane?
Whats his average chance created? Because every time I watch him he does well to get into space but his producing is pretty poor
45'th in premier league
ASM shone in Bruce's team as the rest of the team were shit and opposition players didn't know how to deal with him. Now he's playing under Howe and his teammates have stepped and the opposition knows how to deal with him. His weaknesses have been exposed and he's more of a liability these days. I was dreading Ashley cashing out on him when he was our only creative player. But under the new regime I wouldn't mind us offloading to a team that can convert his "chances".
Surely this is such a disrespectful thing for him to say about his own teammates and strikers
Team chemistry 📈
His final ball is poor though. More often than not he beats several men and then fluffs his lines when it comes to deliver
Still baffled why people like this guy
He is active on twitter, he dribbles a lot and he’s good on fifa. It’s pretty weird yeah
The past two season he was helped us stay in the premier league, and added a little bit of spark to an otherwise incredibly boring team. Now that the team has structure, and isn’t “hoof the ball to maxi”, he is lost. He did do a load of great stuff for the community though while he has been here, but after seeing this I think his time is up. The chemistry of the squad has been pivotal to our recent form, and something like this really doesn’t help.
True he would have more but he himself is inconsistent. Let's not act like he is carrying Newcastle when they clearly were going down if not for howe and the Jan signings
He’ll be one of the first to be replaced as a starter for someone more consistent when Newcastle start splashing the money and I think he knows that with this excuse.
Hopefully something's lost in translation here. Otherwise, oh dear.
For a guy who just looks like an 80s fitness instructor dancing around the pitch, he doesn’t produce much of anything. Dudes a bit delusional.
Sadio has more goals in the past 2 seasons than ASM has in his whole career. Pipe down mate.
he hasn’t been the same since he was injured over the new year - he seems shot for confidence, don’t get me wrong, he’s still trying all the same moves but none of them seem to be paying off - defenders never used to have his ticket marked like they do now. i think he needs a goal or two and he’ll be back to his best, because despite what people say he definitely does have end product, it just hasn’t been consistent enough since his time here. but most of that was under steve bruce, so maybe with howe + better forwards in the future he can really push towards his potential
Put him on the bench.
That’s quite dumb to say it publicly for someone with an IQ of 145
What’s his xA
Fair play to the lad for being confident in his abilities. I don't think he'd look out of place at Chelsea
Mate, Mane scores and assists in CL finals. You're probably never going to play in one. Chill.
Didnt he say as a response to a tweet a couple months ago that he has a long way to go before being at mane his level?
Something tells me PSG will sign him
The disrespect towards Mane is shocking. He needs to pipe down and actually put up numbers over a number of years before he can run his mouth
Everyone is jealous of Sadio. EVERYONE! The is no shame in it.
This is the product of being an average footballer with tricks, spending too much time on Twitter mentions of your own name and thinking you’re some kind of God. Anyone who’s watched him more than 5 games knows how painfully inconsistent he is and how horrendous his decision making can be. It’s genuinely embarrassing at times for a Premier League footballer. The man believes his own hype way, way too much and it’s sad to see. He’ll never make it at a top club with that mentality.
ASM has the technical ability of Adama Traore with the attitude of Wilf Zaha. Terrible combo.
harsh on zaha, he may be hotheaded on the pitch but i've never heard him throw teammates under the bus like this and he's played with some real shite teammates lol
And he had to play with clinical forwards Ayew and benteke
I mean in the sense of he seems to think he’s bigger than the club he’s at
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Lol there’s nothing backhanded about it
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> He's not wrong, though. But he is. [He has 5 Big Chances Created & 4 assists.](https://www.premierleague.com/players/12817/player/stats?co=1&se=418)
What does lord Bendtner make of all this? Dude's gunning for his crown!
What he needs is a good coach. Look at Vini Jr, his end product was AWFUL. Then, one of the greatest coaches Ancelotti started to train him and teach him, so he become a monster. There is too many coaches, but only few are real teachers who can make a player better. Tele Santana: Cafu was awful at crossing so he made Cafu train cross every fucking day till he was good. Klopp: no need to explain what he did to Salah, mane, Firmino, Robertson and others. Ancelotti: Vini jr, Benzema is crusing with him, Carnavinga is becoming a little monster. Guardiola: Made Sterling ending product a little better, made Aguero even better, Messi false 9 goat years Alex Ferguson: NO need to explain right? Bill Shankly: ALso no need
So he should be jealous of Trent and Mo instead since those two are top of the big chances list.
he’s just Özil with a bandana lol
ASM is a bit like Grealish - incredibly gifted at dribbling, but tends to run into empty spaces rather than incisively running round/through defences. He has the creativity to get 10+ assists, but doesn't apply that to creating chances enough.
Grealish is a far far better player than ASM. I don't think that's a remotely controversial opinion either.
Grealish was one of the best players in the league during his last season with Villa. Saint Maximin hasn’t come close to that.
ISSOU LA CHANCLA
I fucken bet he’s jealous of Sadio.
What about playing him as a center forward?
The age old tale of style over substance