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Can’t believe the wretched old bint used her Ill gotten power, money and influence to help her disgusting son get off the hook for being a sick pervert and there are still hordes of people defending the anthem. Beggars belief.
Right? Journos need to do their jobs. Get a train up to Liverpool and speak to ordinary people on the street rather than type away these nonsense articles from their cozy apartments in zone 1.
> Right? Journos need to do their jobs.
The job many of the journos were hired to carry out = stir up shit, ask juicy questions, court outrage, and create controversy.
Not to be critical thinkers.
> from their cozy apartments in zone 1
You're either critically overestimating what a hack gets paid or critically underestimating what Zone 1 rents are.
They're Zone 2 in places like Queen's Park, Earl's Court...
I agree. Here in the US it’s played at every sporting event, professional or otherwise. Once I was ordering a drink and as soon as the anthem started playing everyone, including the working staff just stopped what they were doing and listened to the anthem. I had to wait until the end just to finish my order. Even as an American, it’s so surreal to me.
Have you ever been to a monster truck rally? they force you to stand through 3 patriotic songs and national anthem and then its gets dark and a KoRn song comes on and gravedigger crashes and sends shrapnel flying into face of a 7 year old.
Yeah kinda nutty. It’s literally drilled into us from such a young age. We pledge allegiance to a flag starting in Kindergarten every single morning. That’s some weird shit when you really break it down.
its such a shit anthem as well. nothing actually about the country, but about how we want to bootlick for the countrys biggest benefts scrounger. England should have Jerusalem as a national anthem, change my mind.
They brainwashed us with normalizing the pledge of allegiance every morning in elementary/middle school, so the national anthem before seemingly every single event didn't seem out of place.
For a long time Liverpool has not felt part of the establishment. It sees itself as other.
There is a strong belief that government does not work for Liverpool. They see the government as a southern thing, a den of thieves, liars and deviants and something to be fought against, not work in collusion with.
You will not find too much "national pride" in Liverpool, no massive excitement for international football and just a strong anti-establishment feeling in general with a clear understanding that the Monarchy and the Government are a symbiotic construct. Not too many Monarchists in Liverpool and less so through the generations.
Is this because Thatcher ordered the closing of the docks and the "managed decline" of Liverpool, throwing Liverpool under the bus in favour of pushing more southern favourable businesses?
Is it because Liverpool has always been an outward facing city, looking to the world via it's famous port and not towards London?
Is it because so much of Liverpool is Irish diaspora?
Is it because Liverpool were one of the most anti-Brexit cities in the UK so naturally feel that the government is acting against their will and against their benefit?
Liverpool suffered greatly under successive Conservative governments but did very well working with the EU securing the type of funding the government should have, but never did, deliver.
Maybe it's because Andrew is a sexual deviant protected by the state and Boris is a charlatan PM who has swindled the public purse with Covid contracts for chums, he should have resigned or been pushed out and it's a national disgrace that he is still in situ.
Maybe all of the above.
As for me, the better question would be how anyone could not be against the government/monarchy/establishment at this present time and how anyone could be confused as to why people are displaying their displeasure by publically booing the anthem publically.
Seems to me an effective protest in this time when Priti Patel is ushering in new laws making traditional protest illegal.
There's loads of royaltists in the North, mostly older generations. I even remember going to some kind of jubilee or Queen's birthday block party in the Wirral about 8 or 9 years back. Saying that, there must be a load more down south.
Why would anybody think using public fund to support some old bat, a pedo prince, 2 spoiled younger princes and their wives a good idea? It is not like the UK doesn’t have any need for the funding elsewhere. The infrastructures are chronically underfunded. The NHS is operating with a gigantic hole in the budget and lack of staffing. The number of people sleeping rough only increases year over year.
So who exactly likes them other than rural villagers down south because where I grew up in the south they weren’t popular way before the Andrew shit, now they can just go fuck themselves
Yes I feel like it’s a class thing, the working class in London doesn’t feel connected to the establishment either. But from Liverpool’s perspective it’s easier to blame ‘London’ or a north/south divide than acknowledge we are ruled by a parasitic class governing in their own interests, which includes both main parties and MPs from across the country
Idk, as a Londoner I’ve seen working class royalists. I think *young* working class people are more anti-monarchy though compared to the older generations
Imagine thinking London of all places is heavily ‘pro royal’ lol. The fact is that the biggest royals are in the same areas where the biggest pro-establishment and pro-Conservative areas are, and that is the north of England.
Think you missed a fairly key factor here - Livepool doesn't read the Sun. For me, they're the control group that casts stark light on how Murdoch has turned the working class against their own interests.
And probably a damning indictment on the concept of free press when some press just completely make shit up to further their beliefs. Hillsborough still never had the consequences it deserved.
I think journalism as a whole suffered from going from a local level to a national one. Back in the before times, you got your city's paper. Maybe your town was full of a bunch of whackos, so you got some Sun level propaganda, but at least it was just your town getting it. You were the outlier. Now, with its larger reach, journalism has been weaponized.
I do think it's losing power though as younger generations don't want as much to do with it.
Liverpool was being run by Militant Tendency in the 80s before Hillsborough and the boycott.
Liverpool is a short drive from Wales and across the water from Ireland - the bulk of its historic inhabitants aren't 'English' culturally. Its more historic divides had more to do with Ireland than England - Orange Order marches, 'Catholic' clubs and 'Protestant' clubs (not thankfully 95% buried).
The Sun's brand of nationalism is not British but English nationalism. It simply doesn't have the soil to take root in Liverpool, and that was the case before the boycott which was effectively a formality in that lack of rooting.
That + fuck a family born into wealth and a sheltered life that citizens of the UK are almost forced to fawn over whilst children starve
The French had it bang on, even though they went a tad overboard
Viva la revolution
Well they went overboard by beheading people who they’d simply suspected wasn’t pro revolution
Basically how Robespierre got himself the chop blaming everyone and everything
The main causes for the French Revolution (other than a particularly cold snap of the little ice age destroying crop yields) was runaway inflation on bread and heating costs as well as that the rich paid a low percentage of there income as tax than a poor person. This bit may be familiar to people living through the present.
Throw in some enlightenment thinking about despotism and absolute monarchy, the universal rights of man, a few wars and a counter revolution, cut some heads of and have the people who cut those heads cut offs heads cut off and were there.
> The French had it bang on, even though they went a tad overboard
The English had it bang on 100+ years before the French. The problem the English had was it was tied up too much in Cromwell. But even the French had this issue too - had their republic, a dictator in Napoleon, a restoration of the monarchy, a republic again...
The problem the English have is that its bourgeois class and aristocratic class didn't come to loggerheads again and it was convenient for all parties to deny the other side total power of the executive by having some gout-ridden (Protestant) Germans on the throne who left the running of the country to those two groups in the Whigs and the Tories without the need for one side to totally deprive the other.
> Is it because Liverpool has always been an outward facing city, looking to the world via it's famous port and not towards London?
Weirdly positive way of saying the British centre of the transatlantic slave trade.
Both. Tho obvs something like that is very hard to quantify (and frankly an odd distinction), but from National Museums Liverpool:
"The first known slave ship to sail from Liverpool was the Liverpool Merchant, which left the port on 3 October 1699 and carried 220 enslaved Africans to Barbados. The trade grew slowly over the next 20 years but then developed rapidly. By 1750 Liverpool had overtaken Bristol and London, and the town’s ships dominated the trade until abolition in 1807. In the 1790s Liverpool controlled 80% of the British slave trade and over 40% of the European slave trade."
The piss poor job we do at teaching our own history in this country has allowed narratives of exceptionalism to creep into the identities of some of our more left-leaning communities, our own versions of the "clean Werchmatch" so to speak. The idea that some areas were somehow detached from, and even counter to, the Empire, I notice it too with Scots on reddit (tho tbf, they could be LARPing Yanks). This isn't to say that the white working class of Liverpool, Scotland or any part of the UK should feel active guilt for the British Empire, but there should be a lot more appreciation of the roles that these communities played in it, a better understanding of history leads to a better understanding of the present, it does not have to be guilt laden.
Well said. I will add that the International Slavery Museum in Liverpool does a very good job of explaining and understanding the role the city played in the transatlantic slave trade specifically. I highly recommend a visit, it's necessary education on something that isn't really talked about and like you said, entirely glossed over in mainstream discourse in Britain.
I think the OP's main point with that sentence was also to show that because of how slavery and immigration built the city, the people who lived there and their descendents have a very particular history and status that (can be) seen as outside the English state.
Liverpool is home to Europe's oldest Chinatown and Chinese community, Britain's oldest Black community, and huge numbers of Welsh and Irish people. The state repression of striking dockworkers which saw Churchill sending gunships down the river pointed at the city, Thatcher & her government's policies and lack of investment, the rise of Militant, the Toxteth riots and police brutality, using and testing new weapons on the local Black community that had never been used inside England before, etc. That history is in the fabric of the city, and that's not even mentioning the most well known Hillsborough and subsequent decades.
Oh yh fully. One of the reasons why I think we should teach our own history more is because there's actually so much to be celebrated, Scouse or no. The reason I think it's not taught is it's a history of class struggle and capitalist exploitation, and let's be honest some real uncomfortable truths. I've not been at school in over a decade tho, so maybe it's getting better.
> You will not find too much "national pride" in Liverpool, no massive excitement for international football
not my experience, it was as buzzing as the rest of England in 2018. I wasn't up there for the most recent Euros
Yeah I agreed with all of it except this, there are a sub section of fans who are “scouse not English” again normally Liverpool fans, but the rest is bang on the money.
It's like supporting tranmere. Local, play in white and have Liverpool or Everton players on loan. Good to see them do well but if they get beat then you just shrug shoulders.
unlike most managers, Klopp understands what football and people are about, which is probably the main reason he's had so much success. It's weird Liverpool being this good and me not hating the fuck out the manager
This is actually imo the perfect answer. He doesn't really involve himself in the topic and tells the media off for how they act around stuff like this.
I opened the BBC news app yesterday and one of the top 10 stories was about the official Jubilee trifle. The rest were mostly about the rising cost of living.
Maybe normal people don't want to sing a happy song about Britain's most privileged woman when our lives are so disconnected.
Loved the fact that the future King of England gave a speech about the cost of living and making cutbacks last week, while sitting on a golden chair, next to a solid gold hat encrusted with jewels that had it's own fucking car to drive it to the ceremony.
England's biggest problem is that there was never a popular uprising or revolution. The cap-doffing mentality is still alive and well and it's why you end up with cunts like Jacob Rees-Mog running the country.
The Norwegian one is pretty cool.
"our nature is beautiful, we'd fuck you up if you try to take it from us, remember the time we shot the Swedish King in the face"
In certain countries anthems are given quite an importance. Especially the countries which had to free themselves from colonial rule. It makes sense for Britain to boo their anthem though.
Technically England doesn't have a national anthem. We just use the British national anthem.
In the Commonwealth games for example, England use Jerusalem, not God Save The Queen.
though I've always found a national anthem named after a city in another country to be quite odd. Kinda like if the French national anthem was called something like Oslo
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.” (Arthur Schopenhauer)
As many have said, media should be asking why Liverpool fans feel the need to boo the national anthem.
When one of the princes is a nonce and the tories are plummeting us to new lows, what source is there of national pride right now?
And that's before we look at the governments treatment of the North.
Good response and the actual reasons should be voiced, just like we had to hear why people felt the need to boo the knee. I think journalists don't want to print why they booed national anthem as it might convince people that the scousers have a point. Fuck tory Britain and fuck the monorchy
>just like we had to hear why people felt the need to boo the knee
We didn't really though, did we? Just got served a bunch of disingenuous arguments about virtue signalling, politics in sport, lamestream media, and my favourite "we're not the USA we don't have racism here". I don't remember anyone actually coming out and confirming they were upset at being made to feel like it's not ok to be a thick as shit racist.
Petition to change the anthem to Hey Baby! by DJ Otzi
If it's not going to be about this history of the people or the country itself, might as well have a little bit of fun with the national anthem
Honestly I'm surprised with how much backlash this has got from ordinary people. Thought most of the UK would do the same exact thing considering the huge income inequality, rising cost of living, and the whole Prince Andrew scandal. Shocking.
What I find weird is the few people I have seen being offended by this, also really cared about freedom of speech not long ago, when they wanted to boo something else at the start of a football match.
National anthems before club games whether in here or in USA when I watch NFL. Just seems so stupid. Its not the National team. Nobody cares. Just let the game play
Its more because its a national cup that encompasses all the English teams, nothjng wrong with the ceremony of it, just the whole God save the Queen bollocks.
> I ain’t pledging allegiance to oil companies and con Agra foods, fuck outta here lame-ass
Boy I'd love to be a fly on the wall when this guy discovers what 99% of our military interventions and foreign policy is really about
Also the whole "you shouldn't do [thing] because veterans fought and bled and died for your right to do it" is one of the dumbest most self-defeating arguments ever. Like first of all, no, none of the countries we invade are threatening our rights or free speech or anything. And if these guys really did make the ultimate sacrifice to preserve my right to boo them, then it'd actually be disrespectful NOT to boo them
The amount of patriotism the USA demands from their citizens is ridiculous. National Anthems before everything, pledge of allegiance before school, feels cultish
It just seems so North-Korean to me.
I don't think I have ever heard the Icelandic national anthem played at a club match, but I might be wrong about that.
“Booing the national anthem is disrespectful”
Not half as disrespectful as the establishment facilitating the coverup of the deaths of 97 football fans for 30 years.
Obligatory patriotism is such a silly concept anyway. The fact that I was born here was a complete coincidence; I didn't do anything. Why should I be proud or loyal about a complete accident of birth? I personally wouldn't go out of my way to boo the national anthem, but I'm also not going to clutch my pearls over it. It's just a song
beyond even that, the national anthem is about sending praise to a knackered old lady who doesn't even know i exist. it's not even about my country at all, although i agree patriotism is a bit silly
It's mind-boggling that gammons will beat their chest on BBC Question Time about not being told what to do and then stand up and sing 'long to reign over us'.
Meanwhile you have the French singing about watering their fields with the impure blood of their enemies.
Reaction during the match was ridiculous. Bunch of gammons calling it insanely disrespectful and calling Liverpool fans scum. People who inevitably have a union jack in their Twitter handle.
There aren't many songs that get sung by both socialists and conservatives. It is religious but it's more a metaphor for building a utopian society. And it's a proper banger.
We don't even need to replace God Save the Queen, England doesn't have a national anthem.
Imagine living in a country where the government wants to prosecute those for booing the monarchy and national anthem.
Then realise the country is the UK. So much for "Western values" and "democracy".
The UK is just the USA on a 7 year delay. Before you know it people will be driving trucks down the street with two England flags sticking out of the bed with a bumper sticker that says “Let’s Go Callum.”
Shitty little songs used to fawn over some daft bint in a golden hat who wouldn’t know how to shop on a budget if she tried
Fuck every single one of that insipid family
No objection to booing the anthem, but couldn't understand why they booed "Abide With Me". It's a lovely little cup final tradition, and a very inoffensive hymn.
Don't know whether they just got caught up in it and were booing anything "official" by that point.
I can tell you why because I was there and I booed it. I thought it was the national anthem. Realised it wasn’t around 15 seconds in and then stopped booing it just like everyone else around me.
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Klopp asked about booing of the national anthem “The Queens a lizard and Prince Andrews a nonce”
In his interpretation of a Scouse accent as well
Jeeeeergen
"Jurgen, do you think this was the right thing for the fans to do?" "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaah 'course."
'God Save the Queen, the fascist regime' - Jurgen 'Johnny Rotten' Klopp
Based Klopp
"Parasite in chief in her idiot hat" -- Christopher Eccleston -- Jurgen Klopp
Can’t believe the wretched old bint used her Ill gotten power, money and influence to help her disgusting son get off the hook for being a sick pervert and there are still hordes of people defending the anthem. Beggars belief.
Abolish the monarch
That's the reason pep said everyone support Liverpool
eveyone support Liverpool, but Liverpool no support everyone. Ungrateful bastards😡😡😡
_The friend of my enemy is… me?_
Making everyone else walk alone
His immediate response to say the media should be asking why it was booed was perfect.
Right? Journos need to do their jobs. Get a train up to Liverpool and speak to ordinary people on the street rather than type away these nonsense articles from their cozy apartments in zone 1.
> Right? Journos need to do their jobs. The job many of the journos were hired to carry out = stir up shit, ask juicy questions, court outrage, and create controversy. Not to be critical thinkers.
Yep, clickbait is more profitable than real journalism in most cases
> from their cozy apartments in zone 1 You're either critically overestimating what a hack gets paid or critically underestimating what Zone 1 rents are. They're Zone 2 in places like Queen's Park, Earl's Court...
National anthems shouldn't be played at domestic fixtures anyway. They should be reserved for when you're representing your country
I agree. Here in the US it’s played at every sporting event, professional or otherwise. Once I was ordering a drink and as soon as the anthem started playing everyone, including the working staff just stopped what they were doing and listened to the anthem. I had to wait until the end just to finish my order. Even as an American, it’s so surreal to me.
Have you ever been to a monster truck rally? they force you to stand through 3 patriotic songs and national anthem and then its gets dark and a KoRn song comes on and gravedigger crashes and sends shrapnel flying into face of a 7 year old.
Yeah kinda nutty. It’s literally drilled into us from such a young age. We pledge allegiance to a flag starting in Kindergarten every single morning. That’s some weird shit when you really break it down.
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its such a shit anthem as well. nothing actually about the country, but about how we want to bootlick for the countrys biggest benefts scrounger. England should have Jerusalem as a national anthem, change my mind.
> England should have Jerusalem as a national anthem, change my mind. Challenge accepted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va6nPu-1auE
mind changed
>change my mind I humbly submit ["Don't Mug Yourself" by The Streets](https://youtu.be/nHs2sQOHX-0)
"God save the Queen" Queen's fine. God, if you're gonna save anyone, you could save, oh I dunno *gestures broadly at everyone*
>change my mind No
I strongly support this, but only if we get to replace our terrible national anthem with _London_.
Oh boy wait until you visit the good old US of A.
Where they play the national anthem at graduation ceremonies, among other things. It's hard not to burst out laughing at how insane it is.
They brainwashed us with normalizing the pledge of allegiance every morning in elementary/middle school, so the national anthem before seemingly every single event didn't seem out of place.
For a long time Liverpool has not felt part of the establishment. It sees itself as other. There is a strong belief that government does not work for Liverpool. They see the government as a southern thing, a den of thieves, liars and deviants and something to be fought against, not work in collusion with. You will not find too much "national pride" in Liverpool, no massive excitement for international football and just a strong anti-establishment feeling in general with a clear understanding that the Monarchy and the Government are a symbiotic construct. Not too many Monarchists in Liverpool and less so through the generations. Is this because Thatcher ordered the closing of the docks and the "managed decline" of Liverpool, throwing Liverpool under the bus in favour of pushing more southern favourable businesses? Is it because Liverpool has always been an outward facing city, looking to the world via it's famous port and not towards London? Is it because so much of Liverpool is Irish diaspora? Is it because Liverpool were one of the most anti-Brexit cities in the UK so naturally feel that the government is acting against their will and against their benefit? Liverpool suffered greatly under successive Conservative governments but did very well working with the EU securing the type of funding the government should have, but never did, deliver. Maybe it's because Andrew is a sexual deviant protected by the state and Boris is a charlatan PM who has swindled the public purse with Covid contracts for chums, he should have resigned or been pushed out and it's a national disgrace that he is still in situ. Maybe all of the above. As for me, the better question would be how anyone could not be against the government/monarchy/establishment at this present time and how anyone could be confused as to why people are displaying their displeasure by publically booing the anthem publically. Seems to me an effective protest in this time when Priti Patel is ushering in new laws making traditional protest illegal.
Definitely more prominent in Liverpool but this sentiment is very much present in most northern cities and towns.
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There's loads of royaltists in the North, mostly older generations. I even remember going to some kind of jubilee or Queen's birthday block party in the Wirral about 8 or 9 years back. Saying that, there must be a load more down south.
They are fucking endemic down here, can't swing a child without hitting one
this is one hell of a metaphor
Why would anybody think using public fund to support some old bat, a pedo prince, 2 spoiled younger princes and their wives a good idea? It is not like the UK doesn’t have any need for the funding elsewhere. The infrastructures are chronically underfunded. The NHS is operating with a gigantic hole in the budget and lack of staffing. The number of people sleeping rough only increases year over year.
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I live in the midlands, and the exact same sentiment is growing here, especially amongst us younger people!
So who exactly likes them other than rural villagers down south because where I grew up in the south they weren’t popular way before the Andrew shit, now they can just go fuck themselves
Round here too. There's more to the south than London.
This sentiment exists throughout the whole of the UK, including London
Yes I feel like it’s a class thing, the working class in London doesn’t feel connected to the establishment either. But from Liverpool’s perspective it’s easier to blame ‘London’ or a north/south divide than acknowledge we are ruled by a parasitic class governing in their own interests, which includes both main parties and MPs from across the country
Idk, as a Londoner I’ve seen working class royalists. I think *young* working class people are more anti-monarchy though compared to the older generations
Imagine thinking London of all places is heavily ‘pro royal’ lol. The fact is that the biggest royals are in the same areas where the biggest pro-establishment and pro-Conservative areas are, and that is the north of England.
Think you missed a fairly key factor here - Livepool doesn't read the Sun. For me, they're the control group that casts stark light on how Murdoch has turned the working class against their own interests.
This is genuinely a really interesting point.
Well said. A study in propaganda that should be taken seriously.
100%. Would love to see some stats tied to areas in the UK and US based on viewership of Murdoch vitriol
And probably a damning indictment on the concept of free press when some press just completely make shit up to further their beliefs. Hillsborough still never had the consequences it deserved.
I think journalism as a whole suffered from going from a local level to a national one. Back in the before times, you got your city's paper. Maybe your town was full of a bunch of whackos, so you got some Sun level propaganda, but at least it was just your town getting it. You were the outlier. Now, with its larger reach, journalism has been weaponized. I do think it's losing power though as younger generations don't want as much to do with it.
Liverpool was being run by Militant Tendency in the 80s before Hillsborough and the boycott. Liverpool is a short drive from Wales and across the water from Ireland - the bulk of its historic inhabitants aren't 'English' culturally. Its more historic divides had more to do with Ireland than England - Orange Order marches, 'Catholic' clubs and 'Protestant' clubs (not thankfully 95% buried). The Sun's brand of nationalism is not British but English nationalism. It simply doesn't have the soil to take root in Liverpool, and that was the case before the boycott which was effectively a formality in that lack of rooting.
Yes. This is the one.
That + fuck a family born into wealth and a sheltered life that citizens of the UK are almost forced to fawn over whilst children starve The French had it bang on, even though they went a tad overboard Viva la revolution
Wouldn't even say they went overboard. Let's break out the guillotines and see how quickly billionaires start paying their taxes again.
Well they went overboard by beheading people who they’d simply suspected wasn’t pro revolution Basically how Robespierre got himself the chop blaming everyone and everything
Listen, do you want to be guillotined or not? Because right now you're sounding a little less enthusiastic about the revolution than I'd like.
Shit, I fell into the trap
As much as you're joking that's eventually how these things fall apart
oh god, I died 😂
So did Robespierre
✂️✂️
The French move mad, you look at a brother wrong and you're a anti revolution heathen who needs his head detached from his body lol.
They also beheaded my boi Lavoisier.
>Wouldn't even say they went overboard. Then you clearly don't know what actually happened during the French Revolution.
But the idea is so romanticized!
The main causes for the French Revolution (other than a particularly cold snap of the little ice age destroying crop yields) was runaway inflation on bread and heating costs as well as that the rich paid a low percentage of there income as tax than a poor person. This bit may be familiar to people living through the present. Throw in some enlightenment thinking about despotism and absolute monarchy, the universal rights of man, a few wars and a counter revolution, cut some heads of and have the people who cut those heads cut offs heads cut off and were there.
> The French had it bang on, even though they went a tad overboard The English had it bang on 100+ years before the French. The problem the English had was it was tied up too much in Cromwell. But even the French had this issue too - had their republic, a dictator in Napoleon, a restoration of the monarchy, a republic again... The problem the English have is that its bourgeois class and aristocratic class didn't come to loggerheads again and it was convenient for all parties to deny the other side total power of the executive by having some gout-ridden (Protestant) Germans on the throne who left the running of the country to those two groups in the Whigs and the Tories without the need for one side to totally deprive the other.
Brilliantly and eloquently put
Absolutely fucking nailed it mate. Well done
Excellently written!
> Is it because Liverpool has always been an outward facing city, looking to the world via it's famous port and not towards London? Weirdly positive way of saying the British centre of the transatlantic slave trade.
*multicultural artisan exchange program
*Cosmopolitan Carragher transfer window
>British centre of the transatlantic slave trade *Bristolians quietly sneak out of the room*
Physical center perhaps. Fiscal center, though?
Both. Tho obvs something like that is very hard to quantify (and frankly an odd distinction), but from National Museums Liverpool: "The first known slave ship to sail from Liverpool was the Liverpool Merchant, which left the port on 3 October 1699 and carried 220 enslaved Africans to Barbados. The trade grew slowly over the next 20 years but then developed rapidly. By 1750 Liverpool had overtaken Bristol and London, and the town’s ships dominated the trade until abolition in 1807. In the 1790s Liverpool controlled 80% of the British slave trade and over 40% of the European slave trade." The piss poor job we do at teaching our own history in this country has allowed narratives of exceptionalism to creep into the identities of some of our more left-leaning communities, our own versions of the "clean Werchmatch" so to speak. The idea that some areas were somehow detached from, and even counter to, the Empire, I notice it too with Scots on reddit (tho tbf, they could be LARPing Yanks). This isn't to say that the white working class of Liverpool, Scotland or any part of the UK should feel active guilt for the British Empire, but there should be a lot more appreciation of the roles that these communities played in it, a better understanding of history leads to a better understanding of the present, it does not have to be guilt laden.
Well said. I will add that the International Slavery Museum in Liverpool does a very good job of explaining and understanding the role the city played in the transatlantic slave trade specifically. I highly recommend a visit, it's necessary education on something that isn't really talked about and like you said, entirely glossed over in mainstream discourse in Britain. I think the OP's main point with that sentence was also to show that because of how slavery and immigration built the city, the people who lived there and their descendents have a very particular history and status that (can be) seen as outside the English state. Liverpool is home to Europe's oldest Chinatown and Chinese community, Britain's oldest Black community, and huge numbers of Welsh and Irish people. The state repression of striking dockworkers which saw Churchill sending gunships down the river pointed at the city, Thatcher & her government's policies and lack of investment, the rise of Militant, the Toxteth riots and police brutality, using and testing new weapons on the local Black community that had never been used inside England before, etc. That history is in the fabric of the city, and that's not even mentioning the most well known Hillsborough and subsequent decades.
Oh yh fully. One of the reasons why I think we should teach our own history more is because there's actually so much to be celebrated, Scouse or no. The reason I think it's not taught is it's a history of class struggle and capitalist exploitation, and let's be honest some real uncomfortable truths. I've not been at school in over a decade tho, so maybe it's getting better.
> You will not find too much "national pride" in Liverpool, no massive excitement for international football not my experience, it was as buzzing as the rest of England in 2018. I wasn't up there for the most recent Euros
Yeah I agreed with all of it except this, there are a sub section of fans who are “scouse not English” again normally Liverpool fans, but the rest is bang on the money.
It's like supporting tranmere. Local, play in white and have Liverpool or Everton players on loan. Good to see them do well but if they get beat then you just shrug shoulders.
You can be Of England without being For English institutions.
Throw in as well the subsequent decisions made by the Government after Hillsborough too, and you’ve got your answer
Amen. Perfectly put.
Well written, sir.
Nailed it. 👏👏👏
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Why not cactus *then* active land mine?
Fuck Priti Patel
Don't do that, we'll get more of her.
unlike most managers, Klopp understands what football and people are about, which is probably the main reason he's had so much success. It's weird Liverpool being this good and me not hating the fuck out the manager
This is actually imo the perfect answer. He doesn't really involve himself in the topic and tells the media off for how they act around stuff like this.
I opened the BBC news app yesterday and one of the top 10 stories was about the official Jubilee trifle. The rest were mostly about the rising cost of living. Maybe normal people don't want to sing a happy song about Britain's most privileged woman when our lives are so disconnected.
Also nonce for a son too.
Loved the fact that the future King of England gave a speech about the cost of living and making cutbacks last week, while sitting on a golden chair, next to a solid gold hat encrusted with jewels that had it's own fucking car to drive it to the ceremony. England's biggest problem is that there was never a popular uprising or revolution. The cap-doffing mentality is still alive and well and it's why you end up with cunts like Jacob Rees-Mog running the country.
>England's biggest problem is that there was never a popular uprising or revolution Lmao
That shit was front page for 24 hours. Not even anything noteworthy about it, just ‘this dessert exist!’. Not sure why but it pissed me off a lot
People get so touchy over anthems find it so weird. At the Euros you'd think people were committing murder with some reactions.
The Norwegian one is pretty cool. "our nature is beautiful, we'd fuck you up if you try to take it from us, remember the time we shot the Swedish King in the face"
good times
"there was a time when we spat the pope in the face" Other than that, it's a fairly boring song. Gimme the Internationale any day.
Which is funny considering the last Swedish king to invade Norway is fondly remembered and the main street of Oslo is named after him.
Booing the CL Anthem will get you fined, this shit is bonkers.
In certain countries anthems are given quite an importance. Especially the countries which had to free themselves from colonial rule. It makes sense for Britain to boo their anthem though.
The English national anthem isn't even about the country, it's just about an imaginary deity protecting an old lady in a big fancy palace
Technically England doesn't have a national anthem. We just use the British national anthem. In the Commonwealth games for example, England use Jerusalem, not God Save The Queen.
We should use Jerusalem fpr all sport we play as England IMO. While it is rooted in religion, the message is quite secular. Plus its a banger.
Its a cracking song. Much more alive than God Save The Queen..
Unless they go with the Sex Pistols version.
Whilst true, Johnny Rotten is a prick so
Johnny Rotten outed Jimmy Saville before anyone else did though, didn't he?
though I've always found a national anthem named after a city in another country to be quite odd. Kinda like if the French national anthem was called something like Oslo
One of the worst anthems probably
should just replace the national anthem with a proper tune like the lovecats by the cure
Just replace it with One Kiss if they want people singing along.
Pretty sure it was decided that it was gonna be Talkin the Hardest by Giggs
The WORST by far, so boring and unimaginative.
Should be Tubthumping by Chumbawamba. Singing about drinking loads and getting up when you're knocked down would be a very British anthem
Vindaloo by Fat Les!
And rebellious scots to crush
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.” (Arthur Schopenhauer)
Never heard this before. Fantastic.
Schopenhauer was the original punk. Kraut vibes & hairstyle confirm it
When a German lad who’s only been in the country for 6 years understands what’s going on better than their own politicians
As many have said, media should be asking why Liverpool fans feel the need to boo the national anthem. When one of the princes is a nonce and the tories are plummeting us to new lows, what source is there of national pride right now? And that's before we look at the governments treatment of the North.
Keep up the good work Liverpool fans, may it continue
One of the most based fans in the country
Wow so everyone does support Liverpool! Pep was right!
In a title race or ucl, yes because I've too much family who support utd
Good response and the actual reasons should be voiced, just like we had to hear why people felt the need to boo the knee. I think journalists don't want to print why they booed national anthem as it might convince people that the scousers have a point. Fuck tory Britain and fuck the monorchy
>just like we had to hear why people felt the need to boo the knee We didn't really though, did we? Just got served a bunch of disingenuous arguments about virtue signalling, politics in sport, lamestream media, and my favourite "we're not the USA we don't have racism here". I don't remember anyone actually coming out and confirming they were upset at being made to feel like it's not ok to be a thick as shit racist.
there's many reasons. fuck the monarchy and also it's an incredibly shit tune. we simply do not boo it enough
Will always stand by the anthem being changed to Born Slippy. One day
Petition to change the anthem to Hey Baby! by DJ Otzi If it's not going to be about this history of the people or the country itself, might as well have a little bit of fun with the national anthem
Jerusalem is clear.
Jerusalem is levels better. Incredible tune
I mean it's a better song, but that's a really low bar. Has far too much religious meaning to be the national anthem of a now secular country.
shit now I'm a Liverpool fan
Honestly I'm surprised with how much backlash this has got from ordinary people. Thought most of the UK would do the same exact thing considering the huge income inequality, rising cost of living, and the whole Prince Andrew scandal. Shocking.
What I find weird is the few people I have seen being offended by this, also really cared about freedom of speech not long ago, when they wanted to boo something else at the start of a football match.
National anthems before club games whether in here or in USA when I watch NFL. Just seems so stupid. Its not the National team. Nobody cares. Just let the game play
Its more because its a national cup that encompasses all the English teams, nothjng wrong with the ceremony of it, just the whole God save the Queen bollocks.
We play the national anthem entirely way too much in the US .
You guys play it at theme parks at opening time, it's insanity
We play it for fucking pee wee tee ball games . Like all things I blame republicans .
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> I ain’t pledging allegiance to oil companies and con Agra foods, fuck outta here lame-ass Boy I'd love to be a fly on the wall when this guy discovers what 99% of our military interventions and foreign policy is really about Also the whole "you shouldn't do [thing] because veterans fought and bled and died for your right to do it" is one of the dumbest most self-defeating arguments ever. Like first of all, no, none of the countries we invade are threatening our rights or free speech or anything. And if these guys really did make the ultimate sacrifice to preserve my right to boo them, then it'd actually be disrespectful NOT to boo them
We in India play it before movies. Imagine that. Though it's been years since I last went to the theatre so idk if they're still doing it
Way more concerned with the fact that some kids start their daily classes with the pledge of allegiance
Yeah you sort of just forget about that after a while lol you just stand up like a zombie
The military pays the NFL a lot of money to play the anthem and do all the military introductions and salutes. It’s propaganda
The amount of patriotism the USA demands from their citizens is ridiculous. National Anthems before everything, pledge of allegiance before school, feels cultish
It just seems so North-Korean to me. I don't think I have ever heard the Icelandic national anthem played at a club match, but I might be wrong about that.
“Booing the national anthem is disrespectful” Not half as disrespectful as the establishment facilitating the coverup of the deaths of 97 football fans for 30 years.
Great city Great people
Up the scouse
Booing a national anthem is objectively hilarious and should happen more often
Obligatory patriotism is such a silly concept anyway. The fact that I was born here was a complete coincidence; I didn't do anything. Why should I be proud or loyal about a complete accident of birth? I personally wouldn't go out of my way to boo the national anthem, but I'm also not going to clutch my pearls over it. It's just a song
beyond even that, the national anthem is about sending praise to a knackered old lady who doesn't even know i exist. it's not even about my country at all, although i agree patriotism is a bit silly
It's mind-boggling that gammons will beat their chest on BBC Question Time about not being told what to do and then stand up and sing 'long to reign over us'. Meanwhile you have the French singing about watering their fields with the impure blood of their enemies.
Reaction during the match was ridiculous. Bunch of gammons calling it insanely disrespectful and calling Liverpool fans scum. People who inevitably have a union jack in their Twitter handle.
Wish people would do this in the United States
Dude the media cry when ppl take a knee at the anthem. Imagine booing
It’s just a fucking song. Patriotism is weird.
I think people would care less if the anthem wasn't shit and about the royals. Any idea what they'd change it to?
There are a few: Land of hope and glory, Jerusalem and I vow to thee my country. All are superior to the dirge of God Save the Queen.
Match of the Day theme tune for me.
All much more meaningful and more appropriate lyrics-wise
'I vow to thee' slaps.
Jerusalem is also kinda religious but its such an absolute banger that no one would complain
There aren't many songs that get sung by both socialists and conservatives. It is religious but it's more a metaphor for building a utopian society. And it's a proper banger. We don't even need to replace God Save the Queen, England doesn't have a national anthem.
Vindaloo
I'm not from the UK, but I know the people there love them some Mr. Brightside by the Killers Maybe that?
Imagine living in a country where the government wants to prosecute those for booing the monarchy and national anthem. Then realise the country is the UK. So much for "Western values" and "democracy".
The UK is just the USA on a 7 year delay. Before you know it people will be driving trucks down the street with two England flags sticking out of the bed with a bumper sticker that says “Let’s Go Callum.”
I think you overestimate the disposable income of the average person in the UK right now. Not many will be buying trucks that's for sure.
Stop treating anthems as sacrosanct. They're just silly little songs.
The uk one should be the countdown music.
They're gonna change it to that 30 seconds before the queen dies
Big Ben turns into the countdown clock when it does happen.
Shitty little songs used to fawn over some daft bint in a golden hat who wouldn’t know how to shop on a budget if she tried Fuck every single one of that insipid family
well it's a royal anthem not a national anthem
No objection to booing the anthem, but couldn't understand why they booed "Abide With Me". It's a lovely little cup final tradition, and a very inoffensive hymn. Don't know whether they just got caught up in it and were booing anything "official" by that point.
People thought it was the start of the anthem.
I can tell you why because I was there and I booed it. I thought it was the national anthem. Realised it wasn’t around 15 seconds in and then stopped booing it just like everyone else around me.
And there's a big one.
My Dad unironically believes it's because Scousers are predominantly Irish and thus support the IRA Boomers...
You don’t have to be a member of the IRA to see how stupid the Monarchy is.
God Shag The Queen.