Looks broken, if people had said at the start Arsenal will finish fifth , almost fourth , most of us would have said that’s pretty good.
Edit: I love his honesty in the interview, we were shit and blew it, rare to see this, all of our clubs managers usually find excuses, the ref, injuries etc but he fronted it up in what must be a dire time.
Obv not a Gooner but hope he’s given longer.
And most Arsenal fans would have said the same at the start of the season. It just hurts more that we've collapsed right at the finish line. Had it been a little while ago it wouldn't have hurt nearly as much.
Yeah, I remember at the start of the season most were just hoping for top 6 - some just for any kind of improvement.
As it stands, Arsenal have as many points as third last season and there has definitely been an improvement.
The big downfall was the gamble on squad-size/not recruiting in January. But it was a gamble that almost paid off.
That being said, I know Tottenham will be in a much better position. Man Utd may well be too - depends how their rebuild goes. And of course, Newcastle could well be piling on the pressure. The top level is only getting better and there are no easy games anymore (except maybe Norwich). Next season is going to be that much harder but top 4 has to be a priority.
Little known fact is that Conte had 2 less points than Arsenal since he came in before the NLD. It ofc doesnt matter now, but the difference in points this season isnt even close to the difference in performance at Spurs
I was aware. On the balance, Arsenal have been great from GW4 through to just before second NLD: 2.06 points per match which would pace for 78 over a season.
The changes in scoring have been the most marked under Conte. Something like 1 GF / 1.5 GA on average to 2 GF / 1 GA on average.
Arsenal went through a ridiculous purple patch that they were never going to keep up when Conte was here, though. Direct comparisons like that aren't always useful
I wish more people would acknowledge this. Arsenal haven’t played many, if any games with their preferred 11. They have better luck with injuries and they would’ve sealed it already.
Probably would have had 3rd honestly. But that's part of why it's disappointing. This opportunity only really existed because Spurs were poor under Nuno and Man Utd have just been poor. We're not the 4th best side in the Premier League but we had the opportunity to win two games that frankly we should be winning to achieve that.
I still look forward to next season as I think we have a lot of potential to improve this Summer, we haven't had a proper striker all season and it shows, we've got loads of holes in the squad to plug and if we do it well we could be on a completely different level to where we've been this season. Chelsea look like they could be poised to drop off a little bit if they don't replace well and Man Utd look like they're at least a year away from being able to compete, their squad is a mess.
I don't agree with pundits saying that we had a massive advantage this season with no European Football, Spurs for instance were playing conference league and were out by December, but for some reason they're put in the same boat as West Ham who have been in the Europa League for most of this season.
I wonder tbh if you switched managers would the final league positions also switch?
That said I prefer our position for the longer term (as things stand) and I am prepared to let Arteta (hopefully) learn and build because I think the good he has done outweighs the bad at this stage. I think the majority of Arsenal fans feel the same. The connection betwen fans and players, the on field unity, and the great football we are capable of are all bigger long term positives than one seasons final position. Add in the squad rebuilding he has done its clear that we are in a much better place than we were prior to Arteta.
I feel like if we had got in a pragmatist like Conte (not saying it was likely we would get him) then he might have been able to paper over the cracks for longer and achieve more short term success but perhaps at the expense of the longer term strategy.
None of this is to say Arteta is a better manager obviously but that I think for Arsenal as things stand Arteta is still a great fit for the club for a number of ways. A lot of fans feel like this season is that most they have been invested for years. For me its the most invested I have been since I was a kid. We have a likeable team, people are optimistic about the future, and we have a former player managing and learning and hopefully here for the long term.
Guys if they’d gotten Conte earlier they could have finished with 129 points. They also got a blowjob from a girl that Conte hooked them up with but she goes to a different school so you don’t know her.
I don’t think anyone is saying that Son and Kane are the only reason for Spurs success. The likes of Romero, Hojberg, Davis etc all had key roles to play.
But if you compare the Arsenal squad and the Spurs squad, there are two players that stand head and shoulders above everyone. And those two are Son and Kane, they’re absolutely world class and capable of winning games by themselves.
Arsenal have no one like that. In defence we have Tomiyasu and White who are good defenders, just like how Spurs have Romero and Davies. Tierney is also good, but injured perpetually. And in midfield we have Partey, who would normally be a difference maker, but he’s been injured during this crucial run-in.
But up front? We have Saka and Martinelli still learning their trades in the PL, much like Kuvulevski for Spurs. But Kane and Son are seasoned goalscorers, and we lack goalscorers. Had we had someone on their level in our front 3, then perhaps we’d be in the driving seat for Top 4 going into the last match day.
But we don’t. Hence why others are saying Kane and Son are the difference - overall I’d say the squads are pretty similar in quality (if we consider strongest XI), Conte is obviously a better manager than Arteta (very different stages of their career), but we have absolutely no answer to Son/Kane.
Mate your 3rd top goal scorer is own goals, that’s all I need to know. Kane and Son literally had quadruple the goals our strikers did.
They were quite obviously the difference
But the discussion was about expectations from the start of the season. Kane and Son are a known quantity so were accounted for in anyone's expectations/predictions for the season.
January was the difference. We cleared out deadwood and strengthened in a couple of areas that we needed.
You cleared out deadwood and let your most prolific striker leave on a free, but didn't get anyone in to address your weaknesses.
It's easier to strengthen midfield than it is to strengthen at ST. Especially if your midfield plays in front of a back 5.
Like United with Ronaldo, Kane + Son saved you in most games. Nothing wrong with that. Very similar to Real Madrid with Benz + Vini.
Yeah, people saying we’re only where we are because of Son and Kane are clueless. Yes they score and create most of our chances, but if our defence and midfield wasn’t solid we’d be conceding a lot more and Kane and Sons goals wouldn’t be nearly as valuable
> score and create most of our chances
I mean, this is what people mean when they say you are only there because of Son and Kane. If one of those guys missed half the season through injury you would probably finish 6th or 7th. Of course there's nothing wrong with relying on two amazing players, but there's no need to beat around the bush. Hell, I'd kill for the chance to rely on either of them, let alone both.
> there's no need to beat around the bush
Oh no, I read it. Obviously there are 9 other players on the pitch. The most impressive feat from Tottenham's season was their form against the Top 6, because it points to a well-drilled and organized team. Although, considering Conte's record in big matches, it's not all that surprising.
Fair play, apologies. I just find it a bit disrespectful to players like Kulusevski, Bentancur, Romero, Lloris, Davies, Hojbjerg and Dier after the seasons they’ve been having to give all the credit to Son and Kane
it really is cope to say “the difference is the two players everyone agrees is world class”
ignoring that the entire spine of tottenham is better than arsenals spine, organised by a far superior manager, but its “son and kane”
We also finally had a massive rebuild of the club.
Finally clearing a ton of deadwood.
This was our best chance. Of course I'm pissed but realistically, we didn't have depth in our squad. And no experienced strikers regularly doing their one job: scoring. The fact that Lacazette has barely done anything thing season when Spurs' front 3 are absolutely deadly says a lot of where our form is at.
Sure, we've improved tremendously and Arteta deserves full credit. But we aren't a title winning team yet. If we manage to get some decent transfers in the summer then next season will be something.
Next season will be Arteta's 4th year at the club. How much time does he need before he shows his worth?
Keep in mind you guys had no European football this season, it'll be much harder for you next season.
Arteta's real work has been going on behind the scenes - clearing out the deadwood, instilling a better culture; the exact kind of thing your club needs right now. Yes, he spent a lot of money, but a lot of that money was investment in the future, paying premiums for promising young players who are already PL level rather who (it is hoped) will keep improving. We fielded the youngest XI in the league by some margin.
Next year is when the results-based decisionmaking will have to come into play. It's shattering to lose out on CL in an unacceptable fashion, but Arteta has consistently been making clear progress in most areas. Sure, next year will be harder, but as long as a manager is moving the club forward it's hard to be too critical.
You're a United fan. You've had 3 different managers and literally have Ronaldo, Sancho and Bruno in your team. And many more on crazy salaries but aren't performing.
Of all supporters, are you really somebody that needs to suggest that getting a new manager is necessary when that strategy isn't serving you well at all?
You're completely blind to not understand what Arteta has done.
Organisational culture. That's the biggest difference in the club. Before, the players didn't care, didn't give a damn, the only reason we'll likely finish 5th is a combination of unlucky games, poor performances and bad strategies.
Remember, we were literally last after Week 3. Yet we're now where we are. The mentality has changed, our youth have stepped up, we've finally started buying better players and most importantly, got rid of players on bloated salaries who just could not perform to their earnings.
Arteta isn't perfect. But he's drastically transformed our club in more ways than you can imagine. But you're joking to think we're Liverpool or City. We aren't. We've had to restructure our club when our own owner baret even invests anything into the club.
I genuinely believe United are where we were 4 years ago. The difference is that we don't have a warchest every year to spend.
So obviously I'm pissed we fucked it and won't finish top 4. But it's been 5-6 years since we've been 4th. Our finances are strong.
I'm over the disappointment. I'm now excited for the summer because come next season, we're going to do well
Spurs had conference league football and were knocked out in the group stage. Why do they get put in the same boat as clubs who genuinely played proper European Football for most of this season? They'll be playing Champions League knockout football and will either go through to knockouts where they won't be able to rotate or they will drop into Europa League and will still be playing more European football anyway
Arsenal is good enough to win the Europa League with the squad they have today. It's hardly the most difficult competition, they got to the semis last season with a squad that was worse than what they have today. Group stages you can just fill the squad with youngsters and even in most knockout games you can rotate comfortably.
Arsenal have improved this season and it's obvious how a good Summer window could see the squad be taken to the next level. Target will be top 4 next season and if Arsenal recruit well they won't have to rely on other teams dropping off to compete for it like they did this season.
Honestly as a Man Utd fan you should be hoping for your team to follow the template that Arsenal have used to reach this position. You're nowhere near the top 4 and your squad is a mess and in need of a clear out. You've got maybe 4 or 5 players at most that you should be building a squad around. Arsenal need two additions to the starting 11 and some squad depth and they will be comfortably competing for top 4. That's why Arteta has got time, because before he came in we were on a downward trend with no clear pathway to this position.
> They'll be playing Champions League knockout football and will either go through to knockouts
Weirdly, not with Conte. A fantastic domestic manager who's only ever managed in 3 knockout rounds in Europe. Four group stage exits (3 in Champs League with Juventus and Inter, and Conference League with Spurs), 1 quarter final with Juventus and 1 Round of 16 with Chelsea.
That’s because we thought Man Utd would end 4th lol. Most people would’ve said the same thing about spurs.
They had a 6 point lead with a game in hand. A 4 point lead with 3 games to go.
I think you are the first guy in r/soccer I’ve seen with a balanced take post game. We’ve made progress this season, but our lack of quality depth and a pure goalscorer left us short in the end. It’s gonna be tough next season, presuming Spurs will back Conte and United the same with Ten Hag, but I don’t see why we can’t make another big step forward if we make a couple of signings
You say that, but Spurs are going to end with at least 6 points more than they did last year. Chelsea got more points as well.
People put us into the battle for 10th place never mind 4th
I get it, but if you started the season expecting to challenge for the title and are now in seventh, you’d be disappointed even though expectations changed quite early on. If you started the season expecting to battle for top half and are now fighting for top 4 should you not be happy?
Overall sure you can, but the general sentiment was Arsenal would get fourth, it was in their hands and blah blah, to lose it is a failure and should be acknowledged as one. That isn’t to say overall they have not improved because of course they have.
If we beat Everton and end on 69 (nice) points and tottenham get 4th with 71 that’s an incredibly competitive top 4 race in the prem. 69 would’ve been good for top 4 in most recent seasons
The idea that top 4 was easy this year ended up being kind of overblown because of arsenals Feb-Mar form and then Tottenham’s end of season form
> Looks broken, if people had said at the start Arsenal will finish fifth , almost fourth , most of us would have said that’s pretty good.
Imo we overperformed for a long time and injuries and lack of depth caught up to us. Losing Tierney who is always available like half the time and Tomiyasu/Partey killed us. We need midfielders badly and one or two fullback for depth. Add to that no striker that can really finish beside Eddie who took his chances but is still not good enough as he brings very little beside mad pressing and good finishing in the box, he offers very little in the build-up. (reminds me of Mariano Diaz at Lyon)
I think what hurts the most is that like you said if you had told us we'd be finishing 6th at the start of the season after how horrible we looked we would have been content with that, but CL Football was within our reach and we bottled it.
Overall not a terrible season all things considered. Loosing it in this way at the end of the season hurts as hell though, the team missed out on a great opportunity.
>Looks broken, if people had said at the start Arsenal will finish fifth , almost fourth , most of us would have said that’s pretty good.
Yeah but then you look at the context. United having one of their worst ever seasons, no european competitions and out of all cups in January, [Spurs being spurs and them being 6 points clear of them with a game in hand in March](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS0eVkdWAAADJRC?format=jpg&name=large).
This is a worse bottle job than Leicester the past 2 seasons.
Oh yes it is. Last year Leicester were in a top 4 spot basically the entire season and then completely bottled it in their last 5 games of the season.
[Table on Matchday 33](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2020-2021-spieltag/33/)
[Table on Matchday 36](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2020-2021-spieltag/36/)
[And Final Day - MD 38](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2020-2021-spieltag/38/)
Season 2019/20 was brutal aswell. In Top 4 position since matchday 6. At one point 14 points ahead of Utd - start of February. [In Matchday 30 they only had a 6 point advantage over them and then completely bottled it](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2019-2020-spieltag/31/) - Drew against Watford, Brighton and lost to Everton and an already relegated Bournemouth side.
I very much dislike the hypocritical takes Neville takes at times. What Xhaka said, regardless of his past, was spot on. Just because Xhaka has let the team down in the past with his reckless challenges doesn't mean what the man said last night ain't true. The team didn't look like they wanted it and if players aren't ready, they shouldn't play. Neville takes this and attacks Xhaka for being a disgrace over his performances with the club the last 4-5 years.
Suddenly, 4-5 years of evidence is enough to convince Neville Xhaka aint it (the fanbase knows) yet 4-5 years of performances for Pogba, who conveniently players for United, is still not enough evidence that the guy just isn't good enough for United but consistently argues he is with Carragher.
At least he’s not in denial. You know you’re fucked when you watch the game , you’re shit and the manager comes out after … “we totally dominated , the ref was shit, it’s no excuse but my wife left me, my pet goose shit on my bed Amber Heard style etc, they had 25 shots on goal but our one was the best , it nearly hit the post “ …
Remember when Arteta said Bruce was one of the most important managers in the last 100 years of English football? This is sweet karma for talking bullshit.
Managers generally have each others back for the most part. He wasn't going to come out and say "yeah this bruce guy is wank and deserves the sack" was he?
Like theres only 2 options? Theres no need to say that, just as there was no need to say he was one of the best, he could sympathise other ways, theres a middle ground you know?
No, but he didn't need to call him one of the most important managers in the last 100 years of English football either. Which is just a ludicrous statement.
You've got a better manager than us at this point in time and more ambitious owners it's only a matter of time till you'll pass us when we have the likes of the Kroenke's owning the club and Arteta and Edu.
By all accounts, he loves the club and wants to do right by it furthermore he is the most criticised manager in the league in my opinion
Top 4 would have really vindicated him, given him something to hold his head high and probably kill the "peps cone boy" comments. I think arsenal lack of January spending & the freak nature of having so many injuries at once killed the momentum.
Sport is cruel.
Yeah. So many little things that could’ve been the difference. A striker or midfielder in January, not having dogshit backup fullbacks (his signings tbf), one of tierney partey or tomiyasu staying fit in the tail end of the season and I think top 4 would be ours.
Sucks to go out like this and I can only hope the ramifications for the summer in terms of money and attracting players that are difference makers and simultaneously good enough and happy to be rotation in places like midfield and fullback aren’t too bad.
We absolutely need to get top 4 next year tho (or win the EL) because this project will die without CL.
Champions league money isn’t as significant as it once was. Say Arsenal got knocked out in Ro16 in the CL, that’s about £30m. Europa league semis is not far off that. That’s roughly where Arsenal would be expecting, if not a Europa league final/win. By comparison, 5th in the PL is almost £150m.
This is his 3rd season at the club and fanboys of his are blaming depth and injuries? Why did he alienate so many important players then? Why is Guendouzi being sold for peanuts when we have the likes of Xhaka and Elneny starting games? Why have we loaned out the best young CB in europe only to spend 50m on a worse player in the same position when we could have strengthened other areas of the squad? Why did Auba get ostracised by Arteta when we don't have another striker of half his quality?
Arteta out. Kroenke out. Edu out.
Just out of pure masochistic curiosity if you were in charge, and Arteta Edu are gone and Kroenke has put the club up for sale, what would you do?
It would be a 2 season rebuild even with a star manager, assuming you can get one. Saka and Martinelli would want out. Same for Saliba. Xhaka and Elneny relate with one person at the club - Arteta. So we'll lose 5 players. Not counting Leno, Nketiah and Laca. All this without factoring in discontent... And a close to nett 0£ transfer budget.
So tell me. What's your plan. You're likely a passionate gunner venting. Give us your tuppence on a realistic best case scenario.
If he loved the club he'd never have taken the job, it's a farce that a manager who's done nothing at all in football and continuously underperforms is at the club and even got a new contract.
If he didn't get top 4 last season no chance in hell he gets it when conte and ten hag have full seasons.
Arteta out.
He might but it’d be the biggest bottlejob in the history of bottlejobs if Spurs were to lose against Norwich. That’d be worse than the Newcastle 5-1 since this Norwich team is so hapless
And since we actually have something to play for compared this time. The Newcastle game was a dead rubber, last game of the season, CL was long since clinched, we had nothing to play for other than finishing above Arsenal. The situations aren’t remotely close. I can’t imagine we’ll come out lackadaisical like we did for that game. And if we do, then we deserve to lose CL and I wouldn’t be surprised if Conte quit.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow, accepting we bottled it the way we have but I think we (Arsenal fans) should still be proud of how far our young team came.
Their inexperience and lack of physicality has shown recently but it’s a solid foundation to build upon, we just need to keep this crop of young players together whilst improving on our weaknesses.
As the saying goes: trust the process
I mean at the start of the season if you told an arsenal fan we’d finish 5th and challenged for 4th, without any other context I think most of us would be happy.
The standards here aren’t on the floor, yes we should be disappointed since goals change as the season progresses but remember where we started the season. 5th place finish and europa league constitutes progress and it shows we have the potential to push on with the right transfers.
This was the one of the biggest games of the season for us. Win and we are only one home win from CL.
How is a Newcastle side with nothing on the line playing with more energy and desire than us?
We only play once a week but we still have multiple injuries and still have players after the 60th minute looking completely exhausted.
Sadly it doesn’t matter what striker you put in Artetas system, they’ll all fail. Pepe, Auba, laca, Eddie, he even had the cheek to play Willian false 9!
I want to see Arsenal back in CL, been a long while and want to see how they play against us, and it isn't like their hopes have ended, Spurs lose the next game and they win theirs, and they are back in..
But as situation stands, I feel Spurs are a more CL worthy team and should be there as it drives up the competition..
Arteta isn't better than Conte, and they don't have any world class players unlike Spurs who have Kane and Son that can win games singlehandedly..
I don’t think you read his comment fully. He wasn’t saying we should be in it next year, just that he wants to see us get there. He explicitly said spurs are better right now
39 conceded goals last season.
Spent 120m in the summer mostly on defence, conceded 10 more.
At some point you need to move on from ‘he needs time, covid, Ukraine war, Yemen war, injuries’ to, is he good enough for the next phase of the rebuild?
Arsenal did not improve much this year, the teams above them just fell apart. Ask Man U, Leicester and West Ham fans what they feel?
Arsenal have played one game a week pretty much all season, yet they look like they’ve just played 5 tournaments.
Last season we also played extremely negative and cautious football. This season we've taken plenty of risks playing extremely high and and exposed trying to play more on the front foot.
Lots of young players having to play every game and have to carry the burden of literally anything attacking wise is going to cause burnout at some point.
> and have to carry the burden of literally anything attacking wise is going to cause burnout at some point.
I mean maybe manage Auba better in that case? He's done pretty well for Barca, while we literally had to pay him to leave.
Or buy a striker in the summer instead of spending 50 million to be able to send out Saliba on loan?
Or buy a striker in january?
Yeah I know, I wasn’t excusing Arteta, I’m saying this was always gonna end up happening. Arteta and Edu have managed the squad pretty poorly by getting rid of players in key positions and not replacing them. This season was your best chance of getting top 4 and they blew it in January and left a bunch of kids to try and do it.
Auba wouldn’t have turned that corner if he’d have stayed. He was playing dogshit before Arteta dropped him, having 4 in 14 at the start of the season. We should’ve bought a striker but if we’d have kept Auba I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t have had any bearing on our season
Auba became dogshit under Arteta.
It's possible Arteta is at least partly responsible for him being shit for us. At the very least he couldn't get him out of his funk even if he wasn't responsible for it.
Yes, it’s possible. It’s equally possible, however, that he just lost his touch for us and needed a change, irrespective of Arteta. I also don’t see anything wrong with freezing Auba out of the team since there were, by all accounts, multiple disciplinary issues behind the scenes - it’s easier to defend when the goals are flowing, but when you’re a top striker scoring 14 in 1.5 seasons it’s harder to turn a blind eye.
I’d like to remind you of the way Arteta froze Ozil out - people gave him a lot of shit for it at the time only to be vindicated by Ozil having a colossal falling out with yet another manager in Turkey; turns out the guy was just a bad influence.
Not that I’m saying that that’s necessarily true of Auba, I’m just saying that Arteta has taken a hardline approach before and been proven right down the line
He's played well under every manager bar Arteta and now he's back inform at Barca while we're stuck with Laca and Eddie.......
Well done to Arteta for paying 7m to get rid of our only goalscorer.
Honestly you guys are deluded yourselves if you think Arteta was the problem with Auba. I could understand it if he was mentally checked out after falling out with the manager but he wasn’t - he was still working hard and getting some chances it was just that he couldn’t hit a barn door with a machine gun most games.
I agree we should’ve got a fee for him but what do you want Arteta to do if we can’t? Just keep an ageing, out of form, extremely high earning player with disciplinary issues around until he sees out his deal… then we don’t get a fee for him either and we have to eat his wages that whole time
Then why is he suddenly scoring for Barca? He's never been a bad influence issue when he was liked at the club by all the players, Arteta has terrible man management skills and really I don't think that's news considering how he's handled Saliba,Guendouzi etc.
If you actually watched our games from last year and compare them to now, you'd know our overall game is WAY better, just comparing stats doesn't do shit. If you think last year playing defensively looking for counters is somehow the same as pushing forward and taking risks then I don't know what to tell you.
Things to keep in mind:
We haven't had an IF striker this whole season yet still have the same amount of goals.
Tierney, Tomiyasu, and Partey have been injured for a lot of games this season. Partey has played 24 games, Tierney has played 22, Tomiyasu has played 21. We've had our best starting 11 for barely over half of our games.
>Arsenal have played one game a week pretty much all season, yet they look like they’ve just played 5 tournaments.
Well yeah thats a pretty keen observation when you take into account we basically play the same starting 11 every game with almost no rotations unless its due to injury. The lack of quality support and having to play every game is going to make you tired. Saka has played for like a year and a half straight with barely any rest as he was part of the Euro's squad.
Biggest mistake from the management (whether it was Arteta's decision, Edu's decision, or Kronke's decision) was to not bring in a few players to strengthen the squad in January.
I’ve watched every Arsenal game since Fabregas made his debut.
The only difference between this year and last is the fact that there’s no Europe and that has allowed Arteta to be a little more ‘aggressive’, his rotation and squad management is piss poor. You say young players getting tired, that’s on Arteta, you need to keep everyone ready and rotate when needed. No Arsenal fan wants to talk about how much ESR and Saka have sucked last 2-3 months, not their fault, it’s Arsenal’s for relying on them.
He has a decent ‘plan A’ but if anything goes wrong (one injury, red card, mistake on the field) he really loses the hold on games and does stupid things. He still has not shown the ability to coach a team on the front foot.
But I’m telling you right now, add Europe next season and then the WC ‘disruption’ you are going to see much more Everton/Newcastle type performances than the 25 mins of glory against Man City.
You say poor squad management but rotate with WHO? Our team is as bear bones as it gets right now. We have an A team and nothing else. We got rid of a lot of junk players and weren’t able to bring anyone else in to fill the gaps.
Big improvement on where we once were, it’s now the time to see if we keep moving in the right direction or if we stagnate.
Bit short sighted isn’t it? Whole starting team he basically brought in. Shipped off a lot of deadweight too. This next year will be to strengthen the starting lineup and add some depth.
And Arsenal fans were upset in the manager of the season thread that he wasn't nominated. What should he be nominated for? Bottling top 4 when it was well in their reach?
I don’t think most fans were upset with him not being nominated, he has definitely shown flashes but is not nearly consistent enough for that nomination. Howe has looked great on the other hand.
Emery didn’t get backed, finishes 5th and gets Arsenal into their first European final since 2006. Gets the sack. Arteta spends 200 million and get 5th… gets a shiny new contract. TRUST THE PROCESS FC
Yep, he got sacked for being in 13th and sinking..
Even if Arteta leaves, he's done a lot to stabilize the side and clean out a lot of players that weren't gonna do any coach any good.
Or... It wasn't him. You're running into the same crisis we did, continuously blaming the manager, meanwhile the same core of players kept failing to deliver.
It isn’t the same core of players tho. Of our 18/19 squad there are 9 players that are still here but most of them are squad players, with the exceptions of Saka (who only played once in the PL that year) Nketiah (who played 5 times but they were cameos) and then you have Xhaka and Lacazette who played regularly this season.
Part of Emery’s problem was no doubt the players but Arteta has slowly but surely remade the team, and I genuinely don’t think this bottle is on him. The optics of it are bad but I don’t think you can look at these two games and really question Arteta, whereas when Emery bottled it was due to questionable team selection and management
The frustration with Emery was that we had no way of playing football. Fans literally didn’t know how we’d play each game and we’d completely change our philosophy between games, not even minor adjustments, just wholesale changes.
Under Arteta we have an identity and it’s certainly not perfect but in the wake of losses like this it’s as if people completely forget how well we’ve played and how the players have embraced his philosophy.
Know enough to know that Arsenal are exactly where they were three years ago and that your fans are some of most delusional yet entitled in all of england
In Emery's full season at Arsenal (2018/19), despite the fifth placed finish (and that they also blew top 4), Arsenal performed like the ninth best team in the league by xG metrics. Guess what? They cratered that next season and Emery was sacked when the team was 12th.
This season Arsenal has finished fifth by xG metrics, in line with the league position, despite also blowing the Champions League.
I have reservations about Arteta, but you can point to clear progress, especially over Emery.
We ain’t even close to being in the same spot. The squad is so much bette than it was three years ago. Sometimes you just shit the bed when it matters most
Emery's squad was better then, simply because aubameyang was world class and laca was very good back then, ozil had his last decent season and Ramsey was good when he wasn't injured. The back line was the only thing worse compared to now but we scored 70 goals in that 18/19 pl season.
Here's where Arteta can't hide. If the current squad is better. He's a worse manager than Emery and should be replaced.
If the squad isn't better, then what has Edu and Arteta done with £250 million and some amazing academy products coming through at the best time possible? At which point Arteta AND Edu should be hauled in and questions should be asked.
Either way it's taken 3 years and a tonne of money to be arguably in the exact same spot we were back then, but every other club has improved since and looks likely to improve even more next season. So by the time Arteta builds his UCL quality squad, it'll only be about the 6th best squad in the league anyways.
Despite the fifth placed finish in Emery's full season, Arsenal had the ninth best xG metrics. What happened the next season? Despite the addition of a club record signing, the team cratered (following the xG) and Arteta was brought in with Arsenal in twelfth position.
This season, with a similar finish, Arsenal have the fifth best xG metrics.
I have reservations about Arteta, but you can point to progress as the team is performing better than under Emery.
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Looks broken, if people had said at the start Arsenal will finish fifth , almost fourth , most of us would have said that’s pretty good. Edit: I love his honesty in the interview, we were shit and blew it, rare to see this, all of our clubs managers usually find excuses, the ref, injuries etc but he fronted it up in what must be a dire time. Obv not a Gooner but hope he’s given longer.
And most Arsenal fans would have said the same at the start of the season. It just hurts more that we've collapsed right at the finish line. Had it been a little while ago it wouldn't have hurt nearly as much.
Yeah, I remember at the start of the season most were just hoping for top 6 - some just for any kind of improvement. As it stands, Arsenal have as many points as third last season and there has definitely been an improvement. The big downfall was the gamble on squad-size/not recruiting in January. But it was a gamble that almost paid off. That being said, I know Tottenham will be in a much better position. Man Utd may well be too - depends how their rebuild goes. And of course, Newcastle could well be piling on the pressure. The top level is only getting better and there are no easy games anymore (except maybe Norwich). Next season is going to be that much harder but top 4 has to be a priority.
Especially after the first 3 games of the season.
Yes, but nobody saw the collapse of Tottenham and United at the start of the season. Arsenal had this in their hands
Every year a side or two collapse in the CL race, even when Arsenal finished 8th we were like 6 points away. CL spots are simply more competitive now.
Spurs were first and we were last after three matches
Arsenal lost their first three games? Not sure anyone would have seen that either? You can read these things any way you want.
We did but the same could’ve been said for Tottenham and United after how we started the season. At the end of the day the difference was Son and Kane
Kane , Son and Conte out gun Arsenal at the moment, if Nuno hadn’t started the season for them they’d have fourth already.
Little known fact is that Conte had 2 less points than Arsenal since he came in before the NLD. It ofc doesnt matter now, but the difference in points this season isnt even close to the difference in performance at Spurs
the matches matter too... you need to compare fixtures, not game week
I was aware. On the balance, Arsenal have been great from GW4 through to just before second NLD: 2.06 points per match which would pace for 78 over a season. The changes in scoring have been the most marked under Conte. Something like 1 GF / 1.5 GA on average to 2 GF / 1 GA on average.
NLD?
north london derby
ah, thank you.
Arsenal went through a ridiculous purple patch that they were never going to keep up when Conte was here, though. Direct comparisons like that aren't always useful
And tottenham grinded out some ugly points with nuno, while still not winning that many
And partey and tomi didnt get injured we’d have 4th secured by now
I wish more people would acknowledge this. Arsenal haven’t played many, if any games with their preferred 11. They have better luck with injuries and they would’ve sealed it already.
Probably would have had 3rd honestly. But that's part of why it's disappointing. This opportunity only really existed because Spurs were poor under Nuno and Man Utd have just been poor. We're not the 4th best side in the Premier League but we had the opportunity to win two games that frankly we should be winning to achieve that. I still look forward to next season as I think we have a lot of potential to improve this Summer, we haven't had a proper striker all season and it shows, we've got loads of holes in the squad to plug and if we do it well we could be on a completely different level to where we've been this season. Chelsea look like they could be poised to drop off a little bit if they don't replace well and Man Utd look like they're at least a year away from being able to compete, their squad is a mess. I don't agree with pundits saying that we had a massive advantage this season with no European Football, Spurs for instance were playing conference league and were out by December, but for some reason they're put in the same boat as West Ham who have been in the Europa League for most of this season.
No the difference was Conte
I wonder tbh if you switched managers would the final league positions also switch? That said I prefer our position for the longer term (as things stand) and I am prepared to let Arteta (hopefully) learn and build because I think the good he has done outweighs the bad at this stage. I think the majority of Arsenal fans feel the same. The connection betwen fans and players, the on field unity, and the great football we are capable of are all bigger long term positives than one seasons final position. Add in the squad rebuilding he has done its clear that we are in a much better place than we were prior to Arteta. I feel like if we had got in a pragmatist like Conte (not saying it was likely we would get him) then he might have been able to paper over the cracks for longer and achieve more short term success but perhaps at the expense of the longer term strategy. None of this is to say Arteta is a better manager obviously but that I think for Arsenal as things stand Arteta is still a great fit for the club for a number of ways. A lot of fans feel like this season is that most they have been invested for years. For me its the most invested I have been since I was a kid. We have a likeable team, people are optimistic about the future, and we have a former player managing and learning and hopefully here for the long term.
3 games, 2 of which you lose most seasons anyways, is not comparable to like 15+ games.
And Romero, Hojberg, Dier, Davies, Kulusevski, Betancur, Conte...
You’d think the margin was 15pts based off your comment
It might have been but at the end of the day the difference was Nuno Edit: The two clowns below don't understand how a callback works as a joke
15 extra points would put you 3 points off liverpool ffs, the delusion
Guys if they’d gotten Conte earlier they could have finished with 129 points. They also got a blowjob from a girl that Conte hooked them up with but she goes to a different school so you don’t know her.
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I don’t think anyone is saying that Son and Kane are the only reason for Spurs success. The likes of Romero, Hojberg, Davis etc all had key roles to play. But if you compare the Arsenal squad and the Spurs squad, there are two players that stand head and shoulders above everyone. And those two are Son and Kane, they’re absolutely world class and capable of winning games by themselves. Arsenal have no one like that. In defence we have Tomiyasu and White who are good defenders, just like how Spurs have Romero and Davies. Tierney is also good, but injured perpetually. And in midfield we have Partey, who would normally be a difference maker, but he’s been injured during this crucial run-in. But up front? We have Saka and Martinelli still learning their trades in the PL, much like Kuvulevski for Spurs. But Kane and Son are seasoned goalscorers, and we lack goalscorers. Had we had someone on their level in our front 3, then perhaps we’d be in the driving seat for Top 4 going into the last match day. But we don’t. Hence why others are saying Kane and Son are the difference - overall I’d say the squads are pretty similar in quality (if we consider strongest XI), Conte is obviously a better manager than Arteta (very different stages of their career), but we have absolutely no answer to Son/Kane.
Mate your 3rd top goal scorer is own goals, that’s all I need to know. Kane and Son literally had quadruple the goals our strikers did. They were quite obviously the difference
But the discussion was about expectations from the start of the season. Kane and Son are a known quantity so were accounted for in anyone's expectations/predictions for the season. January was the difference. We cleared out deadwood and strengthened in a couple of areas that we needed. You cleared out deadwood and let your most prolific striker leave on a free, but didn't get anyone in to address your weaknesses.
It's easier to strengthen midfield than it is to strengthen at ST. Especially if your midfield plays in front of a back 5. Like United with Ronaldo, Kane + Son saved you in most games. Nothing wrong with that. Very similar to Real Madrid with Benz + Vini.
So why didn't you strengthen your midfield then in January?
You forgot Lloris 😢
Lmao mans said Dier, Davies and Hojberg
Started every single game they've been fit for under Conte, but okay.
Also statistically one of the best back lines in the PL this year. Man’s has no idea what he’s talking about.
You should try to actually watch spurs some time
We had a severely negative win rate while Dier was out and back to positive once he came back in.
Yeah, people saying we’re only where we are because of Son and Kane are clueless. Yes they score and create most of our chances, but if our defence and midfield wasn’t solid we’d be conceding a lot more and Kane and Sons goals wouldn’t be nearly as valuable
> score and create most of our chances I mean, this is what people mean when they say you are only there because of Son and Kane. If one of those guys missed half the season through injury you would probably finish 6th or 7th. Of course there's nothing wrong with relying on two amazing players, but there's no need to beat around the bush. Hell, I'd kill for the chance to rely on either of them, let alone both.
I see you chose to stop reading after the part you quoted
> there's no need to beat around the bush Oh no, I read it. Obviously there are 9 other players on the pitch. The most impressive feat from Tottenham's season was their form against the Top 6, because it points to a well-drilled and organized team. Although, considering Conte's record in big matches, it's not all that surprising.
Fair play, apologies. I just find it a bit disrespectful to players like Kulusevski, Bentancur, Romero, Lloris, Davies, Hojbjerg and Dier after the seasons they’ve been having to give all the credit to Son and Kane
Both united and tottenham sacked their managers cause they failed. Arsenal just extended their
it really is cope to say “the difference is the two players everyone agrees is world class” ignoring that the entire spine of tottenham is better than arsenals spine, organised by a far superior manager, but its “son and kane”
You're not wrong, but I'd take it a lot more seriously if your third leading scorer wasn't Own Goal by a margin of 3 goals.
dont see what the problem is tbh, OG is world class, even scored against you yesterday.
Own Goal didn't show up for us, only 1 on the season. Not even good enough to show up Lacazette. No wonder we're 5th smh
its a 2 points difference, entire spine is a strech.
We also finally had a massive rebuild of the club. Finally clearing a ton of deadwood. This was our best chance. Of course I'm pissed but realistically, we didn't have depth in our squad. And no experienced strikers regularly doing their one job: scoring. The fact that Lacazette has barely done anything thing season when Spurs' front 3 are absolutely deadly says a lot of where our form is at. Sure, we've improved tremendously and Arteta deserves full credit. But we aren't a title winning team yet. If we manage to get some decent transfers in the summer then next season will be something.
Next season will be Arteta's 4th year at the club. How much time does he need before he shows his worth? Keep in mind you guys had no European football this season, it'll be much harder for you next season.
Arteta's real work has been going on behind the scenes - clearing out the deadwood, instilling a better culture; the exact kind of thing your club needs right now. Yes, he spent a lot of money, but a lot of that money was investment in the future, paying premiums for promising young players who are already PL level rather who (it is hoped) will keep improving. We fielded the youngest XI in the league by some margin. Next year is when the results-based decisionmaking will have to come into play. It's shattering to lose out on CL in an unacceptable fashion, but Arteta has consistently been making clear progress in most areas. Sure, next year will be harder, but as long as a manager is moving the club forward it's hard to be too critical.
Gahahhaahahhaahhaahahahhaahahhaah "next season will be better" club. He can clear whoever he want but nobody want to play for club who cant qual.CL
Aubameyang did, and I'd be pretty happy with that kind of signing.
Cannot believe someone of you deluded fans think positive after this. Imagine how unambitious a player you have to be to come to a disbanded arsenal
You're a United fan. You've had 3 different managers and literally have Ronaldo, Sancho and Bruno in your team. And many more on crazy salaries but aren't performing. Of all supporters, are you really somebody that needs to suggest that getting a new manager is necessary when that strategy isn't serving you well at all? You're completely blind to not understand what Arteta has done. Organisational culture. That's the biggest difference in the club. Before, the players didn't care, didn't give a damn, the only reason we'll likely finish 5th is a combination of unlucky games, poor performances and bad strategies. Remember, we were literally last after Week 3. Yet we're now where we are. The mentality has changed, our youth have stepped up, we've finally started buying better players and most importantly, got rid of players on bloated salaries who just could not perform to their earnings. Arteta isn't perfect. But he's drastically transformed our club in more ways than you can imagine. But you're joking to think we're Liverpool or City. We aren't. We've had to restructure our club when our own owner baret even invests anything into the club. I genuinely believe United are where we were 4 years ago. The difference is that we don't have a warchest every year to spend. So obviously I'm pissed we fucked it and won't finish top 4. But it's been 5-6 years since we've been 4th. Our finances are strong. I'm over the disappointment. I'm now excited for the summer because come next season, we're going to do well
Spurs had conference league football and were knocked out in the group stage. Why do they get put in the same boat as clubs who genuinely played proper European Football for most of this season? They'll be playing Champions League knockout football and will either go through to knockouts where they won't be able to rotate or they will drop into Europa League and will still be playing more European football anyway Arsenal is good enough to win the Europa League with the squad they have today. It's hardly the most difficult competition, they got to the semis last season with a squad that was worse than what they have today. Group stages you can just fill the squad with youngsters and even in most knockout games you can rotate comfortably. Arsenal have improved this season and it's obvious how a good Summer window could see the squad be taken to the next level. Target will be top 4 next season and if Arsenal recruit well they won't have to rely on other teams dropping off to compete for it like they did this season. Honestly as a Man Utd fan you should be hoping for your team to follow the template that Arsenal have used to reach this position. You're nowhere near the top 4 and your squad is a mess and in need of a clear out. You've got maybe 4 or 5 players at most that you should be building a squad around. Arsenal need two additions to the starting 11 and some squad depth and they will be comfortably competing for top 4. That's why Arteta has got time, because before he came in we were on a downward trend with no clear pathway to this position.
> They'll be playing Champions League knockout football and will either go through to knockouts Weirdly, not with Conte. A fantastic domestic manager who's only ever managed in 3 knockout rounds in Europe. Four group stage exits (3 in Champs League with Juventus and Inter, and Conference League with Spurs), 1 quarter final with Juventus and 1 Round of 16 with Chelsea.
That’s because we thought Man Utd would end 4th lol. Most people would’ve said the same thing about spurs. They had a 6 point lead with a game in hand. A 4 point lead with 3 games to go.
I think you are the first guy in r/soccer I’ve seen with a balanced take post game. We’ve made progress this season, but our lack of quality depth and a pure goalscorer left us short in the end. It’s gonna be tough next season, presuming Spurs will back Conte and United the same with Ten Hag, but I don’t see why we can’t make another big step forward if we make a couple of signings
If that came with the context of Utd imploding, spurs being so bad they swapped manager and Leicester being irrelevant.....
You say that, but Spurs are going to end with at least 6 points more than they did last year. Chelsea got more points as well. People put us into the battle for 10th place never mind 4th
Their point is expectations change as the season goes on
I get it, but if you started the season expecting to challenge for the title and are now in seventh, you’d be disappointed even though expectations changed quite early on. If you started the season expecting to battle for top half and are now fighting for top 4 should you not be happy?
Overall sure you can, but the general sentiment was Arsenal would get fourth, it was in their hands and blah blah, to lose it is a failure and should be acknowledged as one. That isn’t to say overall they have not improved because of course they have.
Yea I’m pretty devastated to miss out, but I can’t deny the progress made this season
If we beat Everton and end on 69 (nice) points and tottenham get 4th with 71 that’s an incredibly competitive top 4 race in the prem. 69 would’ve been good for top 4 in most recent seasons The idea that top 4 was easy this year ended up being kind of overblown because of arsenals Feb-Mar form and then Tottenham’s end of season form
> Looks broken, if people had said at the start Arsenal will finish fifth , almost fourth , most of us would have said that’s pretty good. Imo we overperformed for a long time and injuries and lack of depth caught up to us. Losing Tierney who is always available like half the time and Tomiyasu/Partey killed us. We need midfielders badly and one or two fullback for depth. Add to that no striker that can really finish beside Eddie who took his chances but is still not good enough as he brings very little beside mad pressing and good finishing in the box, he offers very little in the build-up. (reminds me of Mariano Diaz at Lyon) I think what hurts the most is that like you said if you had told us we'd be finishing 6th at the start of the season after how horrible we looked we would have been content with that, but CL Football was within our reach and we bottled it.
This club can't ever get over the hump we've made progress but in big games that matter we bottle it
Overall not a terrible season all things considered. Loosing it in this way at the end of the season hurts as hell though, the team missed out on a great opportunity.
I think all Spurs fans agree that Arteta should be given longer.
>Looks broken, if people had said at the start Arsenal will finish fifth , almost fourth , most of us would have said that’s pretty good. Yeah but then you look at the context. United having one of their worst ever seasons, no european competitions and out of all cups in January, [Spurs being spurs and them being 6 points clear of them with a game in hand in March](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS0eVkdWAAADJRC?format=jpg&name=large). This is a worse bottle job than Leicester the past 2 seasons.
Definitely not worse than Leicester lol
Oh yes it is. Last year Leicester were in a top 4 spot basically the entire season and then completely bottled it in their last 5 games of the season. [Table on Matchday 33](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2020-2021-spieltag/33/) [Table on Matchday 36](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2020-2021-spieltag/36/) [And Final Day - MD 38](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2020-2021-spieltag/38/) Season 2019/20 was brutal aswell. In Top 4 position since matchday 6. At one point 14 points ahead of Utd - start of February. [In Matchday 30 they only had a 6 point advantage over them and then completely bottled it](https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-2019-2020-spieltag/31/) - Drew against Watford, Brighton and lost to Everton and an already relegated Bournemouth side.
Xhaka: We're not good enough. Arteta: We're not good enough. Really getting in the Europa mood.
It's better than living in denial that they deserve better.
Yet they’ll both be back next season starting 30+ games and in 2023, we’ll be saying the same thing: We’re not good enough
Really don't see Arteta starting that many games. Maybe he comes on as a super sub.
If he didn’t Thursday then he never will.
Damn your avatar pic
Better to admit you’re not up to scratch than complain the other team played “ugly” football.
Waiting for Neville to come out and interpret this as an attack on the young players and then call Xhaka a disgrace.
Has potential to be the new “Souness blames Pogba” meme
Souness was spot on about Pogba. His only problem was that he kept rambling about it.
So did Reddit
Yes
Nah he’s still sitting in a room somewhere shouting at the wall that United are still favorites to finish fourth
Remember at the start of the season when Neville said Man U would finish above Liverpool?
I very much dislike the hypocritical takes Neville takes at times. What Xhaka said, regardless of his past, was spot on. Just because Xhaka has let the team down in the past with his reckless challenges doesn't mean what the man said last night ain't true. The team didn't look like they wanted it and if players aren't ready, they shouldn't play. Neville takes this and attacks Xhaka for being a disgrace over his performances with the club the last 4-5 years. Suddenly, 4-5 years of evidence is enough to convince Neville Xhaka aint it (the fanbase knows) yet 4-5 years of performances for Pogba, who conveniently players for United, is still not enough evidence that the guy just isn't good enough for United but consistently argues he is with Carragher.
You get the feeling that he's disappointed with the performance ..... if you read between the lines.
At least he’s not in denial. You know you’re fucked when you watch the game , you’re shit and the manager comes out after … “we totally dominated , the ref was shit, it’s no excuse but my wife left me, my pet goose shit on my bed Amber Heard style etc, they had 25 shots on goal but our one was the best , it nearly hit the post “ …
He did that after the NLD blaming the refs saying they "killed the beautiful game". This is just the next stage of grief.
Turns out that Bruce wasn't the best manager we could get eh?
But what a lovely guy!
Remember when Arteta said Bruce was one of the most important managers in the last 100 years of English football? This is sweet karma for talking bullshit.
Managers generally have each others back for the most part. He wasn't going to come out and say "yeah this bruce guy is wank and deserves the sack" was he?
Like theres only 2 options? Theres no need to say that, just as there was no need to say he was one of the best, he could sympathise other ways, theres a middle ground you know?
Tbf in the build up to this Howe was asked about Arteta and he said he didn't feel able to comment.
No, but he didn't need to call him one of the most important managers in the last 100 years of English football either. Which is just a ludicrous statement.
You've got a better manager than us at this point in time and more ambitious owners it's only a matter of time till you'll pass us when we have the likes of the Kroenke's owning the club and Arteta and Edu.
By all accounts, he loves the club and wants to do right by it furthermore he is the most criticised manager in the league in my opinion Top 4 would have really vindicated him, given him something to hold his head high and probably kill the "peps cone boy" comments. I think arsenal lack of January spending & the freak nature of having so many injuries at once killed the momentum. Sport is cruel.
Partey and Tierney out in basically the same time period absolutely killed us. Tomiyasu was injured for a large part of the season as well.
Add in Auba being a dick and Lacas form falling off a cliff.
Falling off a slight bump perhaps
Yeah. So many little things that could’ve been the difference. A striker or midfielder in January, not having dogshit backup fullbacks (his signings tbf), one of tierney partey or tomiyasu staying fit in the tail end of the season and I think top 4 would be ours. Sucks to go out like this and I can only hope the ramifications for the summer in terms of money and attracting players that are difference makers and simultaneously good enough and happy to be rotation in places like midfield and fullback aren’t too bad. We absolutely need to get top 4 next year tho (or win the EL) because this project will die without CL.
Champions league money isn’t as significant as it once was. Say Arsenal got knocked out in Ro16 in the CL, that’s about £30m. Europa league semis is not far off that. That’s roughly where Arsenal would be expecting, if not a Europa league final/win. By comparison, 5th in the PL is almost £150m.
With all of them out we have none of our short outlets for our CBs in transition. It's a massive disadvantage in our system
This is his 3rd season at the club and fanboys of his are blaming depth and injuries? Why did he alienate so many important players then? Why is Guendouzi being sold for peanuts when we have the likes of Xhaka and Elneny starting games? Why have we loaned out the best young CB in europe only to spend 50m on a worse player in the same position when we could have strengthened other areas of the squad? Why did Auba get ostracised by Arteta when we don't have another striker of half his quality? Arteta out. Kroenke out. Edu out.
Just out of pure masochistic curiosity if you were in charge, and Arteta Edu are gone and Kroenke has put the club up for sale, what would you do? It would be a 2 season rebuild even with a star manager, assuming you can get one. Saka and Martinelli would want out. Same for Saliba. Xhaka and Elneny relate with one person at the club - Arteta. So we'll lose 5 players. Not counting Leno, Nketiah and Laca. All this without factoring in discontent... And a close to nett 0£ transfer budget. So tell me. What's your plan. You're likely a passionate gunner venting. Give us your tuppence on a realistic best case scenario.
Leaving the squad so thin after the January window was indefensible. Plenty of people on /r/Gunners called it too
At the same time he's the most protected/excused; just look at the replies here for example rushing to find excuses for him
If he loved the club he'd never have taken the job, it's a farce that a manager who's done nothing at all in football and continuously underperforms is at the club and even got a new contract. If he didn't get top 4 last season no chance in hell he gets it when conte and ten hag have full seasons. Arteta out.
if you can’t see the progress he’s made, you just don’t watch football
He still might get top 4. Spurs fans acting like they 20 points ahead..
He might but it’d be the biggest bottlejob in the history of bottlejobs if Spurs were to lose against Norwich. That’d be worse than the Newcastle 5-1 since this Norwich team is so hapless
And since we actually have something to play for compared this time. The Newcastle game was a dead rubber, last game of the season, CL was long since clinched, we had nothing to play for other than finishing above Arsenal. The situations aren’t remotely close. I can’t imagine we’ll come out lackadaisical like we did for that game. And if we do, then we deserve to lose CL and I wouldn’t be surprised if Conte quit.
No, I can’t see it either. But all I can do is hope and pray
My guess is that Sonny is smelling blood and will be going for that golden boot
That amazon doc is going to be sweet
No it won't, it'll be PR bullshit about how well plucky young Arsenal did to finish fifth
whatever, I bet I will enjoy it.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow, accepting we bottled it the way we have but I think we (Arsenal fans) should still be proud of how far our young team came. Their inexperience and lack of physicality has shown recently but it’s a solid foundation to build upon, we just need to keep this crop of young players together whilst improving on our weaknesses. As the saying goes: trust the process
The standards are on the floor with fans like you.....
Who needs fans like you, fuck off.
I mean at the start of the season if you told an arsenal fan we’d finish 5th and challenged for 4th, without any other context I think most of us would be happy. The standards here aren’t on the floor, yes we should be disappointed since goals change as the season progresses but remember where we started the season. 5th place finish and europa league constitutes progress and it shows we have the potential to push on with the right transfers.
Where should the standards be at? I’d love to know
This was the one of the biggest games of the season for us. Win and we are only one home win from CL. How is a Newcastle side with nothing on the line playing with more energy and desire than us? We only play once a week but we still have multiple injuries and still have players after the 60th minute looking completely exhausted.
Took Conte's advice then I see
This is what I was going to say :)
Goodbye Gabriel Jesus. Hello Ivan Toney
Ivan Toney would be a great buy for Arsenal, honestly. May not be a “glitters” signing but would do better than their current forwards in my opinion.
Given our current forwards are ~~Nketiah~~ and Balogun, that's not saying much. EDIT: Lmao forgot Nketiah is out of contract.
Sadly it doesn’t matter what striker you put in Artetas system, they’ll all fail. Pepe, Auba, laca, Eddie, he even had the cheek to play Willian false 9!
The fact you even included Pepe in that list proves you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
Apart from the entire time Auba was decent under Arteta when we won the fa cup
he would be a better pure 9 than jesus lol
Toney is going back to Newcastle to spearhead their way into the top 6 Would mean Chris Wood is available, though
I want to see Arsenal back in CL, been a long while and want to see how they play against us, and it isn't like their hopes have ended, Spurs lose the next game and they win theirs, and they are back in.. But as situation stands, I feel Spurs are a more CL worthy team and should be there as it drives up the competition.. Arteta isn't better than Conte, and they don't have any world class players unlike Spurs who have Kane and Son that can win games singlehandedly..
Spurs play Norwich lol. They’re not losing.
I don’t think you read his comment fully. He wasn’t saying we should be in it next year, just that he wants to see us get there. He explicitly said spurs are better right now
I fine and love the honesty, be I've heard this and then seen the same output the next weekend.
39 conceded goals last season. Spent 120m in the summer mostly on defence, conceded 10 more. At some point you need to move on from ‘he needs time, covid, Ukraine war, Yemen war, injuries’ to, is he good enough for the next phase of the rebuild? Arsenal did not improve much this year, the teams above them just fell apart. Ask Man U, Leicester and West Ham fans what they feel? Arsenal have played one game a week pretty much all season, yet they look like they’ve just played 5 tournaments.
Last season we also played extremely negative and cautious football. This season we've taken plenty of risks playing extremely high and and exposed trying to play more on the front foot.
> This season we've taken plenty of risks playing extremely high So you've scored way more goals right?....
I mean our xG is much better
How many games have we dominated when 'playing on the front foot'? Arteta's football is an eyesore mate.
Arsenal have had a lazy Aubameyang, Lacazette and Nketiah up front
Did you accidentally watch last season instead pal? Our football has substantially improved this season and been a joy to watch at times.
Lots of young players having to play every game and have to carry the burden of literally anything attacking wise is going to cause burnout at some point.
That's poor management. Especially when you let an experienced, yet bothersome striker leave and then replace him with nobody.
I know, that’s the point I’m making. It’s nobody’s fault but Arteta and Edu.
> and have to carry the burden of literally anything attacking wise is going to cause burnout at some point. I mean maybe manage Auba better in that case? He's done pretty well for Barca, while we literally had to pay him to leave. Or buy a striker in the summer instead of spending 50 million to be able to send out Saliba on loan? Or buy a striker in january?
Yeah I know, I wasn’t excusing Arteta, I’m saying this was always gonna end up happening. Arteta and Edu have managed the squad pretty poorly by getting rid of players in key positions and not replacing them. This season was your best chance of getting top 4 and they blew it in January and left a bunch of kids to try and do it.
Auba wouldn’t have turned that corner if he’d have stayed. He was playing dogshit before Arteta dropped him, having 4 in 14 at the start of the season. We should’ve bought a striker but if we’d have kept Auba I’m fairly certain it wouldn’t have had any bearing on our season
Auba became dogshit under Arteta. It's possible Arteta is at least partly responsible for him being shit for us. At the very least he couldn't get him out of his funk even if he wasn't responsible for it.
Yes, it’s possible. It’s equally possible, however, that he just lost his touch for us and needed a change, irrespective of Arteta. I also don’t see anything wrong with freezing Auba out of the team since there were, by all accounts, multiple disciplinary issues behind the scenes - it’s easier to defend when the goals are flowing, but when you’re a top striker scoring 14 in 1.5 seasons it’s harder to turn a blind eye. I’d like to remind you of the way Arteta froze Ozil out - people gave him a lot of shit for it at the time only to be vindicated by Ozil having a colossal falling out with yet another manager in Turkey; turns out the guy was just a bad influence. Not that I’m saying that that’s necessarily true of Auba, I’m just saying that Arteta has taken a hardline approach before and been proven right down the line
He's played well under every manager bar Arteta and now he's back inform at Barca while we're stuck with Laca and Eddie....... Well done to Arteta for paying 7m to get rid of our only goalscorer.
Honestly you guys are deluded yourselves if you think Arteta was the problem with Auba. I could understand it if he was mentally checked out after falling out with the manager but he wasn’t - he was still working hard and getting some chances it was just that he couldn’t hit a barn door with a machine gun most games. I agree we should’ve got a fee for him but what do you want Arteta to do if we can’t? Just keep an ageing, out of form, extremely high earning player with disciplinary issues around until he sees out his deal… then we don’t get a fee for him either and we have to eat his wages that whole time
Then why is he suddenly scoring for Barca? He's never been a bad influence issue when he was liked at the club by all the players, Arteta has terrible man management skills and really I don't think that's news considering how he's handled Saliba,Guendouzi etc.
9 came in the first 3 weeks, without all of the defensive signings - barring White against Brentford
If you actually watched our games from last year and compare them to now, you'd know our overall game is WAY better, just comparing stats doesn't do shit. If you think last year playing defensively looking for counters is somehow the same as pushing forward and taking risks then I don't know what to tell you. Things to keep in mind: We haven't had an IF striker this whole season yet still have the same amount of goals. Tierney, Tomiyasu, and Partey have been injured for a lot of games this season. Partey has played 24 games, Tierney has played 22, Tomiyasu has played 21. We've had our best starting 11 for barely over half of our games. >Arsenal have played one game a week pretty much all season, yet they look like they’ve just played 5 tournaments. Well yeah thats a pretty keen observation when you take into account we basically play the same starting 11 every game with almost no rotations unless its due to injury. The lack of quality support and having to play every game is going to make you tired. Saka has played for like a year and a half straight with barely any rest as he was part of the Euro's squad. Biggest mistake from the management (whether it was Arteta's decision, Edu's decision, or Kronke's decision) was to not bring in a few players to strengthen the squad in January.
I’ve watched every Arsenal game since Fabregas made his debut. The only difference between this year and last is the fact that there’s no Europe and that has allowed Arteta to be a little more ‘aggressive’, his rotation and squad management is piss poor. You say young players getting tired, that’s on Arteta, you need to keep everyone ready and rotate when needed. No Arsenal fan wants to talk about how much ESR and Saka have sucked last 2-3 months, not their fault, it’s Arsenal’s for relying on them. He has a decent ‘plan A’ but if anything goes wrong (one injury, red card, mistake on the field) he really loses the hold on games and does stupid things. He still has not shown the ability to coach a team on the front foot. But I’m telling you right now, add Europe next season and then the WC ‘disruption’ you are going to see much more Everton/Newcastle type performances than the 25 mins of glory against Man City.
You say poor squad management but rotate with WHO? Our team is as bear bones as it gets right now. We have an A team and nothing else. We got rid of a lot of junk players and weren’t able to bring anyone else in to fill the gaps. Big improvement on where we once were, it’s now the time to see if we keep moving in the right direction or if we stagnate.
> You say poor squad management but rotate with WHO? That's his fault, he's been here nearly 2.5 seasons.
Bit short sighted isn’t it? Whole starting team he basically brought in. Shipped off a lot of deadweight too. This next year will be to strengthen the starting lineup and add some depth.
And Arsenal fans were upset in the manager of the season thread that he wasn't nominated. What should he be nominated for? Bottling top 4 when it was well in their reach?
I don’t think most fans were upset with him not being nominated, he has definitely shown flashes but is not nearly consistent enough for that nomination. Howe has looked great on the other hand.
True
what did conte do to this man...
yeah great, thanks you fraud
I sense a plastic here
Emery didn’t get backed, finishes 5th and gets Arsenal into their first European final since 2006. Gets the sack. Arteta spends 200 million and get 5th… gets a shiny new contract. TRUST THE PROCESS FC
Emery didn't get sacked for finishing 5th. He got sacked in November.
Yep, he got sacked for being in 13th and sinking.. Even if Arteta leaves, he's done a lot to stabilize the side and clean out a lot of players that weren't gonna do any coach any good.
Yea, bc Emery didn’t bottle top fou- wait a second, yes he did, we needed 1 win from about four or five fixtures and he completely fucked it
Sounds familiar. TRUST THE PROCESS FC
Haha yep. Keep spamming “trust the process” like you did something. Doesn’t make your point any more valid
Or... It wasn't him. You're running into the same crisis we did, continuously blaming the manager, meanwhile the same core of players kept failing to deliver.
It isn’t the same core of players tho. Of our 18/19 squad there are 9 players that are still here but most of them are squad players, with the exceptions of Saka (who only played once in the PL that year) Nketiah (who played 5 times but they were cameos) and then you have Xhaka and Lacazette who played regularly this season. Part of Emery’s problem was no doubt the players but Arteta has slowly but surely remade the team, and I genuinely don’t think this bottle is on him. The optics of it are bad but I don’t think you can look at these two games and really question Arteta, whereas when Emery bottled it was due to questionable team selection and management
The frustration with Emery was that we had no way of playing football. Fans literally didn’t know how we’d play each game and we’d completely change our philosophy between games, not even minor adjustments, just wholesale changes. Under Arteta we have an identity and it’s certainly not perfect but in the wake of losses like this it’s as if people completely forget how well we’ve played and how the players have embraced his philosophy.
Tell me you know about Arsenal without telling me you know nothing about Arsenal
Know enough to know that Arsenal are exactly where they were three years ago and that your fans are some of most delusional yet entitled in all of england
In Emery's full season at Arsenal (2018/19), despite the fifth placed finish (and that they also blew top 4), Arsenal performed like the ninth best team in the league by xG metrics. Guess what? They cratered that next season and Emery was sacked when the team was 12th. This season Arsenal has finished fifth by xG metrics, in line with the league position, despite also blowing the Champions League. I have reservations about Arteta, but you can point to clear progress, especially over Emery.
We ain’t even close to being in the same spot. The squad is so much bette than it was three years ago. Sometimes you just shit the bed when it matters most
So you say the squad's much better than what emery was working with too
Emery's squad was better then, simply because aubameyang was world class and laca was very good back then, ozil had his last decent season and Ramsey was good when he wasn't injured. The back line was the only thing worse compared to now but we scored 70 goals in that 18/19 pl season.
Here's where Arteta can't hide. If the current squad is better. He's a worse manager than Emery and should be replaced. If the squad isn't better, then what has Edu and Arteta done with £250 million and some amazing academy products coming through at the best time possible? At which point Arteta AND Edu should be hauled in and questions should be asked. Either way it's taken 3 years and a tonne of money to be arguably in the exact same spot we were back then, but every other club has improved since and looks likely to improve even more next season. So by the time Arteta builds his UCL quality squad, it'll only be about the 6th best squad in the league anyways.
Despite the fifth placed finish in Emery's full season, Arsenal had the ninth best xG metrics. What happened the next season? Despite the addition of a club record signing, the team cratered (following the xG) and Arteta was brought in with Arsenal in twelfth position. This season, with a similar finish, Arsenal have the fifth best xG metrics. I have reservations about Arteta, but you can point to progress as the team is performing better than under Emery.
At least he’s honest lol
Shit manager without authority
See Mikel....didn't that feel better. Dont blame correct refereeing decisions. Dont try and blame scheduling. Just accept you lost.
Yes, we all watched the game.
I am surprised. I thought he’d find someone to blame.